politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP voters the least likely to be comfortable about a Roma
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Well I am on the ground too Tapestry since it is my home town and I know you are talking rubbish.Tapestry said:The Green candidate presumably is talking to local constituents, and is on the ground, Richard. Just seen the Queen's Speech has been leaked. Fracking to be permitted without permission of the landowners. http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/queens-speech-leaked-fracking-to-be.html
I see you also repeat some outright lies about Methane. It is not a DNA disruptor it is not an Endocrine disruptor. It is not toxic. The reason people die from methane in coal mines is either because it replaces the air and they die of asphyxiation or because the stuff ignites. You appear to be a scientific illiterate and your video presentation is utterly flawed.
By the way, I am not a fan of fracking. But having people such as yourself making frankly idiotic claims based on no evidence just undermines any reasoned argument against fracking. You do far more harm than good.0 -
Babies are reported being born with defects in fracking areas, Richard. That's DNA disruption. See The Times of 29th April 2014, page 30 and all the ailments catalogued by the Perry family in Texas. Methane not toxic? Now really. You'll be laughing it all off with stories of cows farting next. It will be interesting to see if the Green vote at Newark exceeds expectations. I merely pass on what's in your local paper. Re the medical effects of methane, check out Fracktured Future on Youtube. And see people collapsing from the effects of methane on the nervous system. To prove your point, would you be willing to breathe some methane for five minutes, mixed with air to ensure you can't suffocate?0
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Having spent much of the past week wondering whether to spend the rest of my life hiding behind the sofa, have decided that I might as well just get on with being a Lib Dem, and to hell with opinion polls.
Amazingly, I agree with Richard Tyndall about something: fracking. Not a fan, but the OTT arguments being used against it are making opponents of it look silly.0 -
No you don't you repeat the rubbish the Greens are saying and add some of your own. Funny how people have been working and living around methane for hundreds of years and it is only now and with no scientific evidence, that we suddenly hear of it being a DNA disruptor. Sorry Tap but you are talking rubbish.Tapestry said:Babies are reported being born with defects in fracking areas, Richard. That's DNA disruption. See The Times of 29th April 2014, page 30 and all the ailments catalogued by the Perry family in Texas. Methane not toxic? Now really. You'll be laughing it all off with stories of cows farting next. It will be interesting to see if the Green vote at Newark exceeds expectations. I merely pass on what's in your local paper.
And no, methane is not toxic any more than fresh water. But both will still kill you if you stick your head in them for 20 minutes.0 -
Don't be a Lib Dem Mrs B. No one should base their public position on a party. Stick to your beliefs and support the party who best matches them. If that is the Lib Dems then fine. But don't be like some and support a party just because you always have.MrsB said:Having spent much of the past week wondering whether to spend the rest of my life hiding behind the sofa, have decided that I might as well just get on with being a Lib Dem, and to hell with opinion polls.
Amazingly, I agree with Richard Tyndall about something: fracking. Not a fan, but the OTT arguments being used against it are making opponents of it look silly.
My party right or wrong is as daft as my country right or wrong.0 -
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Just to add to what @Richard_Tyndall has being saying, methane has been dissolved in water for thousands of years and 'burning water' images date back a long way (centuries before 'fracking', certainly). The burning bush stories in the bible almost certainly relate to methane seeps (of which there are millions on planet earth).
Hydraulic fracturing (aka 'well stimulation') isn't that new either, dating back at least 50 years. The water used (aka 'slick water') is 99.9% regular water and sand. The chemicals are sparsely used (because they're expensive, and only really exist to stop the grains of sand clogging the pores in the rock). You can drink fracking fluid, in undiluted form, and I've seen it done (although I passed on the opportunity myself.) And, (properly competed) wells can never pollute your water supply, as if there wasn't cap rock in place, the gas wouldn't be there in the first place.
What else?
Look: if I lived in a village, would I want a large number of trucks trundling through? Not really. But I wouldn't want local fracc'ing because I (as a resident) wouldn't see the benefits and would see the costs of increased congestion.
UKIP's policy of a SWF is obviously ridiculous. But @AnotherDave has it exactly right: bribe local communities. A decade without Council Tax would be enough to sway most communities. Make it so that 25% of the tax take goes to the local council.0 -
Statistically, black people have lower IQs than white people.FalseFlag said:
Yes of course Avery old chap all Romanians are multilingual geniuses, it's why Romania boasts such a high standard of living. Lousy anecdotes are always the best basis for social policy.AveryLP said:
Absolutely true, Nick.NickPalmer said:FWIW I think that judging individuals by their nationality is essentially racist in the usual sense of the term, even if they're white (to be less emotive, let's say it's unhelpful). As Sean Fear says on the last thread, attitudes tend to be formed on the basis of media coverage of the countries - Germans are portrayed as all serious and efficient, Nigerians as people who run banking scams. Such generalisations rarely survive contact with real people, which is possibly why the cruder forms of prejudice are more common in areas with few immigrants.
In 1990 I employed a Romanian aslyum seeker. He had fled Bucharest three years before without his wife and child. He spoke no English on arrival in the UK, but was fluent in Romanian, German, Spanish and Italian. By the time I interviewed him, he was fluent in English too. And a year after being given responsibility for Romania and Hungary, he had learnt Hungarian too (not an easy task even for a natural linguist!).
Eventually he was granted residence and his family joined him. They lived deep in a Lib Dem enclave in South West London and were a charming couple.
Yes, he was a little eccentric, but so were we all, not least myself!
It was South West London not his nationality which would have prevented me being his neighbour.
Indeed, had he been in the constituency you contested at the time, I would have had ten of him or his families living next door.
Let's just pretend those Roma in Marble Arch don't exist.
Does this mean that - when employing people - you can simply dismiss all the black people out of hand?
Obviously not. That would be ridiculous.
People are individuals. Being black no more makes you stupid than being Romanian makes you a criminal.
Would you rather an employed Romanian family moved in next door, or four unemployed local youths on housing benefit?
I find questions like this deeply offensive.0 -
That is the only way really. The community must get something out of it. One of the complaints of the Olympic Village was that the locals got nowt !rcs1000 said:Just to add to what @Richard_Tyndall has being saying, methane has been dissolved in water for thousands of years and 'burning water' images date back a long way (centuries before 'fracking', certainly). The burning bush stories in the bible almost certainly relate to methane seeps (of which there are millions on planet earth).
Hydraulic fracturing (aka 'well stimulation') isn't that new either, dating back at least 50 years. The water used (aka 'slick water') is 99.9% regular water and sand. The chemicals are sparsely used (because they're expensive, and only really exist to stop the grains of sand clogging the pores in the rock). You can drink fracking fluid, in undiluted form, and I've seen it done (although I passed on the opportunity myself.) And, (properly competed) wells can never pollute your water supply, as if there wasn't cap rock in place, the gas wouldn't be there in the first place.
What else?
Look: if I lived in a village, would I want a large number of trucks trundling through? Not really. But I wouldn't want local fracc'ing because I (as a resident) wouldn't see the benefits and would see the costs of increased congestion.
UKIP's policy of a SWF is obviously ridiculous. But @AnotherDave has it exactly right: bribe local communities. A decade without Council Tax would be enough to sway most communities. Make it so that 25% of the tax take goes to the local council.
When I was a Councillor many moons back, there used to be a S52 of the Planning Act where the council negotiated some local benefit when deciding on a planning application. There must be something similar today.0 -
Which territory did the Romanians lose in WW1, Dr Fox? Romania's territory was at it's largest extent in 1919, after the defeat of Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary, and in the wake of the Russian Revolution.foxinsoxuk said:Only under duress, and largely to recover the territories that they lost fighting on our side in the Great war.
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It is the 'properly completed' that I have an issue with. Cement job failures are common in oil and gas drilling (an extreme example is the one which caused the Deepwater Horizon blowout) and the chances of a failed cement job increases hugely in high angle and horizontal wells such as those proposed for fracking.rcs1000 said:Just to add to what @Richard_Tyndall has being saying, methane has been dissolved in water for thousands of years and 'burning water' images date back a long way (centuries before 'fracking', certainly). The burning bush stories in the bible almost certainly relate to methane seeps (of which there are millions on planet earth).
Hydraulic fracturing (aka 'well stimulation') isn't that new either, dating back at least 50 years. The water used (aka 'slick water') is 99.9% regular water and sand. The chemicals are sparsely used (because they're expensive, and only really exist to stop the grains of sand clogging the pores in the rock). You can drink fracking fluid, in undiluted form, and I've seen it done (although I passed on the opportunity myself.) And, (properly competed) wells can never pollute your water supply, as if there wasn't cap rock in place, the gas wouldn't be there in the first place.
What else?
Look: if I lived in a village, would I want a large number of trucks trundling through? Not really. But I wouldn't want local fracc'ing because I (as a resident) wouldn't see the benefits and would see the costs of increased congestion.
UKIP's policy of a SWF is obviously ridiculous. But @AnotherDave has it exactly right: bribe local communities. A decade without Council Tax would be enough to sway most communities. Make it so that 25% of the tax take goes to the local council.
There are a number of serious reasons for objecting to fracking in the UK at present. Many of these could be overcome if the HSEQ regime and reporting systems used in the offshore industry were enforced in fracking but at this present time they are not and the government does not seem to be inclined to do that I assume because of pressure from the fracking companies.
Until the offshore safety regimes are applied to fracking I will be sceptical of the security of wells and the protection of aquifers.0 -
Fully agree that the community must see a chunk of the economic benefit. I would though be concerned that the 'free' money would be squandered on pet schemes and the council tax would hardly drop.surbiton said:
That is the only way really. The community must get something out of it. One of the complaints of the Olympic Village was that the locals got nowt !rcs1000 said:Just to add to what @Richard_Tyndall has being saying, methane has been dissolved in water for thousands of years and 'burning water' images date back a long way (centuries before 'fracking', certainly). The burning bush stories in the bible almost certainly relate to methane seeps (of which there are millions on planet earth).
Hydraulic fracturing (aka 'well stimulation') isn't that new either, dating back at least 50 years. The water used (aka 'slick water') is 99.9% regular water and sand. The chemicals are sparsely used (because they're expensive, and only really exist to stop the grains of sand clogging the pores in the rock). You can drink fracking fluid, in undiluted form, and I've seen it done (although I passed on the opportunity myself.) And, (properly competed) wells can never pollute your water supply, as if there wasn't cap rock in place, the gas wouldn't be there in the first place.
What else?
Look: if I lived in a village, would I want a large number of trucks trundling through? Not really. But I wouldn't want local fracc'ing because I (as a resident) wouldn't see the benefits and would see the costs of increased congestion.
UKIP's policy of a SWF is obviously ridiculous. But @AnotherDave has it exactly right: bribe local communities. A decade without Council Tax would be enough to sway most communities. Make it so that 25% of the tax take goes to the local council.
When I was a Councillor many moons back, there used to be a S52 of the Planning Act where the council negotiated some local benefit when deciding on a planning application. There must be something similar today.0 -
There is section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990surbiton said:
That is the only way really. The community must get something out of it. One of the complaints of the Olympic Village was that the locals got nowt !rcs1000 said:Just to add to what @Richard_Tyndall has being saying, methane has been dissolved in water for thousands of years and 'burning water' images date back a long way (centuries before 'fracking', certainly). The burning bush stories in the bible almost certainly relate to methane seeps (of which there are millions on planet earth).
Hydraulic fracturing (aka 'well stimulation') isn't that new either, dating back at least 50 years. The water used (aka 'slick water') is 99.9% regular water and sand. The chemicals are sparsely used (because they're expensive, and only really exist to stop the grains of sand clogging the pores in the rock). You can drink fracking fluid, in undiluted form, and I've seen it done (although I passed on the opportunity myself.) And, (properly competed) wells can never pollute your water supply, as if there wasn't cap rock in place, the gas wouldn't be there in the first place.
What else?
Look: if I lived in a village, would I want a large number of trucks trundling through? Not really. But I wouldn't want local fracc'ing because I (as a resident) wouldn't see the benefits and would see the costs of increased congestion.
UKIP's policy of a SWF is obviously ridiculous. But @AnotherDave has it exactly right: bribe local communities. A decade without Council Tax would be enough to sway most communities. Make it so that 25% of the tax take goes to the local council.
When I was a Councillor many moons back, there used to be a S52 of the Planning Act where the council negotiated some local benefit when deciding on a planning application. There must be something similar today.0 -
Romania's disastrous involvement in WW2 was the direct result of the power diplomacy of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and the truth that no state in eastern Europe would be able to avoid the ideological conflict. The Nazi-Soviet pact of August 1939 led to the carve up of the states of Eastern Europe and Romanian territory was arbitrarily seized by Moscow in June 1940 and by Germany to appease other allies under the Second Vienna Award.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Which territory did the Romanians lose in WW1, Dr Fox? Romania's territory was at it's largest extent in 1919, after the defeat of Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary, and in the wake of the Russian Revolution.foxinsoxuk said:Only under duress, and largely to recover the territories that they lost fighting on our side in the Great war.
The rise of authoritarianism via Antonescu and the Iron Guard was motivated after June 1941 by the desire to regain the lands lost to Moscow the year before to compensate in turn for lands given to Hungary.
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In summer 1944, far more Nazi divisions were destroyed on the Eastern Front during Bagration than on the Western Front during the Battle for Normandy. Though I guess we'll be hearing far more about D-Day on the telly in the next couple of weeks!MarkHopkins said:
Since the operation was named after a real person:Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Completely off topic question to the military historians on here.
I have heard Operation Bagration pronounced 3 different ways in WW2 documentaries
Soviet Storm: Bag-rat-eon
Battlefield: Bag-ray-schon
Road to Berlin: Bag-rat-een
Which (if any) of these is the correct way?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
Then the phonetic pronunciation of his name is probably correct?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Bagration0 -
If you don't like what your council does, vote them out and get someone else in.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Fully agree that the community must see a chunk of the economic benefit. I would though be concerned that the 'free' money would be squandered on pet schemes and the council tax would hardly drop.surbiton said:
That is the only way really. The community must get something out of it. One of the complaints of the Olympic Village was that the locals got nowt !rcs1000 said:Just to add to what @Richard_Tyndall has being saying, methane has been dissolved in water for thousands of years and 'burning water' images date back a long way (centuries before 'fracking', certainly). The burning bush stories in the bible almost certainly relate to methane seeps (of which there are millions on planet earth).
Hydraulic fracturing (aka 'well stimulation') isn't that new either, dating back at least 50 years. The water used (aka 'slick water') is 99.9% regular water and sand. The chemicals are sparsely used (because they're expensive, and only really exist to stop the grains of sand clogging the pores in the rock). You can drink fracking fluid, in undiluted form, and I've seen it done (although I passed on the opportunity myself.) And, (properly competed) wells can never pollute your water supply, as if there wasn't cap rock in place, the gas wouldn't be there in the first place.
What else?
Look: if I lived in a village, would I want a large number of trucks trundling through? Not really. But I wouldn't want local fracc'ing because I (as a resident) wouldn't see the benefits and would see the costs of increased congestion.
UKIP's policy of a SWF is obviously ridiculous. But @AnotherDave has it exactly right: bribe local communities. A decade without Council Tax would be enough to sway most communities. Make it so that 25% of the tax take goes to the local council.
When I was a Councillor many moons back, there used to be a S52 of the Planning Act where the council negotiated some local benefit when deciding on a planning application. There must be something similar today.
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Yes I know all that (trust me!), but Dr Fox suggested the Romanians lost territory 'fighting on our side' in 'the Great War'!stodge said:
Romania's disastrous involvement in WW2 was the direct result of the power diplomacy of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and the truth that no state in eastern Europe would be able to avoid the ideological conflict. The Nazi-Soviet pact of August 1939 led to the carve up of the states of Eastern Europe and Romanian territory was arbitrarily seized by Moscow in June 1940 and by Germany to appease other allies under the Second Vienna Award.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Which territory did the Romanians lose in WW1, Dr Fox? Romania's territory was at it's largest extent in 1919, after the defeat of Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary, and in the wake of the Russian Revolution.foxinsoxuk said:Only under duress, and largely to recover the territories that they lost fighting on our side in the Great war.
The rise of authoritarianism via Antonescu and the Iron Guard was motivated after June 1941 by the desire to regain the lands lost to Moscow the year before to compensate in turn for lands given to Hungary.0 -
@Richard_Tyndall - A question for you: do the shale beds which are believed to hold gas extend under the sea (for example, off the Sussex and Lancashire coasts)? And if so, is fracking from offshore wells feasible? Also, could sea-water be used?0
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There are still one or two of us left, Mrs B. I will be fascinated to see the detailed policy the Party will be putting forward in 2015 (and indeed the policy of all parties much of which remains shrouded in mystery).MrsB said:Having spent much of the past week wondering whether to spend the rest of my life hiding behind the sofa, have decided that I might as well just get on with being a Lib Dem, and to hell with opinion polls.
Amazingly, I agree with Richard Tyndall about something: fracking. Not a fan, but the OTT arguments being used against it are making opponents of it look silly.
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That's unsurprising, seaborn invasions are tricky to pull off. Certainly much harder than pushing back a front line from land. Operation Overlord is one of the most impressive military achievements of all times.Sunil_Prasannan said:
In summer 1944, far more Nazi divisions were destroyed on the Eastern Front during Bagration than on the Western Front during the Battle for Normandy. Though I guess we'll be hearing far more about D-Day on the telly in the next couple of weeks!MarkHopkins said:
Since the operation was named after a real person:Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Completely off topic question to the military historians on here.
I have heard Operation Bagration pronounced 3 different ways in WW2 documentaries
Soviet Storm: Bag-rat-eon
Battlefield: Bag-ray-schon
Road to Berlin: Bag-rat-een
Which (if any) of these is the correct way?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
Then the phonetic pronunciation of his name is probably correct?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Bagration0 -
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Easier said than done if you live in one of the one party state councils.No_Offence_Alan said:
If you don't like what your council does, vote them out and get someone else in.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Fully agree that the community must see a chunk of the economic benefit. I would though be concerned that the 'free' money would be squandered on pet schemes and the council tax would hardly drop.surbiton said:
That is the only way really. The community must get something out of it. One of the complaints of the Olympic Village was that the locals got nowt !rcs1000 said:Just to add to what @Richard_Tyndall has being saying, methane has been dissolved in water for thousands of years and 'burning water' images date back a long way (centuries before 'fracking', certainly). The burning bush stories in the bible almost certainly relate to methane seeps (of which there are millions on planet earth).
Hydraulic fracturing (aka 'well stimulation') isn't that new either, dating back at least 50 years. The water used (aka 'slick water') is 99.9% regular water and sand. The chemicals are sparsely used (because they're expensive, and only really exist to stop the grains of sand clogging the pores in the rock). You can drink fracking fluid, in undiluted form, and I've seen it done (although I passed on the opportunity myself.) And, (properly competed) wells can never pollute your water supply, as if there wasn't cap rock in place, the gas wouldn't be there in the first place.
What else?
Look: if I lived in a village, would I want a large number of trucks trundling through? Not really. But I wouldn't want local fracc'ing because I (as a resident) wouldn't see the benefits and would see the costs of increased congestion.
UKIP's policy of a SWF is obviously ridiculous. But @AnotherDave has it exactly right: bribe local communities. A decade without Council Tax would be enough to sway most communities. Make it so that 25% of the tax take goes to the local council.
When I was a Councillor many moons back, there used to be a S52 of the Planning Act where the council negotiated some local benefit when deciding on a planning application. There must be something similar today.
Have you never read Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs?0 -
@Richard_Nabavi
Some of the "beds" will extend under the sea, though drilling for them seaward would entail greater cost, and because of the smaller "recovery" area for a fracked gas well, would only be a partial solution.
As to seawater? it would be a possibility I would assume, but the main problem in Britain is not the quantity of water, but the pollution after injection.
We could just flush it into the sea for cheapness though.0 -
Bagration was the German's largest military defeat. IVSTR reading somewhere that 80% or so of German losses were on the Eastern frontSunil_Prasannan said:
In summer 1944, far more Nazi divisions were destroyed on the Eastern Front during Bagration than on the Western Front during the Battle for Normandy. Though I guess we'll be hearing far more about D-Day on the telly in the next couple of weeks!MarkHopkins said:
Since the operation was named after a real person:Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:Completely off topic question to the military historians on here.
I have heard Operation Bagration pronounced 3 different ways in WW2 documentaries
Soviet Storm: Bag-rat-eon
Battlefield: Bag-ray-schon
Road to Berlin: Bag-rat-een
Which (if any) of these is the correct way?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
Then the phonetic pronunciation of his name is probably correct?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Bagration0 -
Romania lost the region Bessarabia (modern Moldova) and Northern Bukovina (now part of Ukraine) in the Molotov/von Ribbentrop pact. They were also fierce rivals to the Hungarians over Transylvania. Despite both countries fighting with the Nazis in Russia they each maintained divisions on their disputed border. In 1944 Romania swapped sides and ended the war on our side.
The Romanians that I know are a lovely bunch, and proud of their countries rich heritage going back to Roman Dacia. I would be very happy with them as neighbours. Their country has a long way to go before it matches most of the EU in development, not least in rooting out corruption, but is well on its way. Interestingly my Romanian colleagues can understand some Hindi words used in Leicester because of similar words used by Romanian gypsies.
This book gives a good flavour of life in modern Romania according to my son who was there last summer. I may go myself soon, having heard of the fascinating painted churches of Southern Bukovina and beauty of the Carpathians.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1477465367?pc_redir=1401368106&robot_redir=1stodge said:
Romania's disastrous involvement in WW2 was the direct result of the power diplomacy of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and the truth that no state in eastern Europe would be able to avoid the ideological conflict. The Nazi-Soviet pact of August 1939 led to the carve up of the states of Eastern Europe and Romanian territory was arbitrarily seized by Moscow in June 1940 and by Germany to appease other allies under the Second Vienna Award.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Which territory did the Romanians lose in WW1, Dr Fox? Romania's territory was at it's largest extent in 1919, after the defeat of Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary, and in the wake of the Russian Revolution.foxinsoxuk said:Only under duress, and largely to recover the territories that they lost fighting on our side in the Great war.
The rise of authoritarianism via Antonescu and the Iron Guard was motivated after June 1941 by the desire to regain the lands lost to Moscow the year before to compensate in turn for lands given to Hungary.0 -
I prefer to walk into my local shop and place bets, rather than dabble into betting on the internet. I still don't trust security fully on the net. I have three betting firms urging me to bet with them on the net. I probably never will take up their offers.Pulpstar said:
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@foxinsoxuk
I note that several posts on here have mentioned corruption in other less developed nations.
This begs the question. Is our corruption of higher quality?0 -
There is certainly corruption here; but in Greece it is not unusual now to have to pay a cash bribe to get treated on their NHS. We are not in that position yet!Smarmeron said:
@foxinsoxuk
I note that several posts on here have mentioned corruption in other less developed nations.
This begs the question. Is our corruption of higher quality?0 -
@foxinsoxuk
You mean basically paying to get better/quicker treatment, and more efficacious drugs?
I see your point, we have more developed system.0 -
The Romanians were rather unwisely persuaded by our government to enter WW1 on our side, and as a consequence were largely occupied by the Bulgarian and Austro-Hungarian forces. Their losses as a percentage of population were higher than ours. They were indeed rewarded by the treaty of Versallies, in terms of territory.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yes I know all that (trust me!), but Dr Fox suggested the Romanians lost territory 'fighting on our side' in 'the Great War'!stodge said:
Romania's disastrous involvement in WW2 was the direct result of the power diplomacy of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and the truth that no state in eastern Europe would be able to avoid the ideological conflict. The Nazi-Soviet pact of August 1939 led to the carve up of the states of Eastern Europe and Romanian territory was arbitrarily seized by Moscow in June 1940 and by Germany to appease other allies under the Second Vienna Award.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Which territory did the Romanians lose in WW1, Dr Fox? Romania's territory was at it's largest extent in 1919, after the defeat of Germany, Bulgaria and Austria-Hungary, and in the wake of the Russian Revolution.foxinsoxuk said:Only under duress, and largely to recover the territories that they lost fighting on our side in the Great war.
The rise of authoritarianism via Antonescu and the Iron Guard was motivated after June 1941 by the desire to regain the lands lost to Moscow the year before to compensate in turn for lands given to Hungary.0 -
Here you can pay to go private; but in Greece you may not get treated at all without paying a bribe.Smarmeron said:
@foxinsoxuk
You mean basically paying to get better/quicker treatment, and more efficacious drugs?
I see your point, we have more developed system.0 -
Very sad news that the redoubtable Mary Soames, daughter of Winston Churchill, has died aged 91 :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-276558940 -
Ladbrokes are currently offering 3/1 and Shadsy isn't often wrong.Pulpstar said:0 -
@foxinsoxuk
Apparently so, Instead of illegally paying a doctor for better treatment, we can pay a middle man to arrange it for us.
Same basic idea though?
Total privatization will no doubt improve things immensely, But I did find the picture of a gunshot victim parked outside a fancy hospital in America just a little worrying.
Blood group and credit card sir?0 -
You get it spot on. The issue is legality.
If you cannot see the difference between illegal bribes and legal payments then there is no hope for you.Smarmeron said:@foxinsoxuk
Apparently so, Instead of illegally paying a doctor for better treatment, we can pay a middle man to arrange it for us.
Same basic idea though?
Total privatization will no doubt improve things immensely, But I did find the picture of a gunshot victim parked outside a fancy hospital in America just a little worrying.
Blood group and credit card sir?0 -
Hi all, newbie here. From old thread:
LD performance in by-elections so far this Parliamentfoxinsoxuk said:Shadsy has LibDems odds on to lose their deposit, in a seat in which they came a close third.
No doubt the vote will be squeezed but by 15%?AveryLP said:
[Ladbroke's] prices could all change on Monday afternoon when Lord Ashcroft publishes his constituency poll.shadsy said:Ladbrokes have a few extra betting options on Newark;
https://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/newark-ukip-now-31-to-win-first-mp/
With two former titans of the bookmaking industry financing UKIP and with donors likely to have access to the party's canvassing returns, one would have thought that party money loading on the kippers today would be the most reliable indicator of the gap being closed.
And yet you push out the prices for UKIP.
The UKIP ramping is beginning to appear like a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
% share in 2010 -> % share at by-election (change in % pts)
1. Oldham East and Saddleworth - 13 January 2011: 31.6% -> 31.9% (+0.3%)
2. Barnsley Central - 03 March 2011: 17.3% -> 4.2% (-13.1%)
3. Leicester South - 05 May 2011: 26.9% -> 22.5% (-4.4%)
4. Belfast West - 09 June 2011 [did not stand]
5. Inverclyde - 30 June 2011: 13.3% -> 2.2% (-11.1%)
6. Feltham and Heston - 15 December 2011: 34.0% -> 27.7% (-6.3%)
7. Bradford West - 29 March 2012: 11.7% -> 4.6% (-7.1%)
8. Cardiff South and Penarth - 15 November 2012: 22.3% -> 10.8% (-11.4%)
9. Corby - 15 November 2012: 14.4% -> 4.9% (-9.5%)
10. Manchester Central - 15 November 2012: 26.6% -> 9.4% (-17.2%)
11. Croydon North - 29 November 2012: 14.0% -> 3.5% (-10.5%)
12. Middlesbrough - 29 November 2012: 19.9% -> 9.9% (-10.0%)
13. Rotherham - 29 November 2012: 16.0% -> 2.1% (-13.9%)
14. Eastleigh - 28 February 2013: 46.5% -> 32.1% (-14.5%)
15. Mid Ulster - 7 March 2013 [did not stand]
16. South Shields - 2 May 2013: 14.2% -> 1.4% (-12.8%)
17. Wythenshawe & Sale East - 13 February 2014: 22.3% -> 4.9% (-17.4%)
Eight lost deposits for the LDs so far.
Newark 2010 result: CON 53.9%, LAB 22.3%, LD 20.0%, UKIP 3.8%0 -
@foxinsoxuk
If you cannot see the difference in a doctor whose bankrupt country hardly pays, trying to get money to feed his family and pay for drugs, and probably treating those who genuinely can't afford it, against much the same being done for profit and convenience, you are a member of the BMA.0 -
So taking bribes is OK if you need the money? Its a view!
Incidentally I am not in the BMA.Smarmeron said:@foxinsoxuk
If you cannot see the difference in a doctor whose bankrupt country hardly pays, trying to get money to feed his family and pay for drugs, and probably treating those who genuinely can't afford it, against much the same being done for profit and convenience, you are a member of the BMA.0 -
You do realise that American hospitals are not permitted to refuse treatment?Smarmeron said:@foxinsoxuk
Apparently so, Instead of illegally paying a doctor for better treatment, we can pay a middle man to arrange it for us.
Same basic idea though?
Total privatization will no doubt improve things immensely, But I did find the picture of a gunshot victim parked outside a fancy hospital in America just a little worrying.
Blood group and credit card sir?
0 -
Welcome, newbieNeilVW said:Hi all, newbie here. From old thread:
LD performance in by-elections so far this Parliamentfoxinsoxuk said:Shadsy has LibDems odds on to lose their deposit, in a seat in which they came a close third.
No doubt the vote will be squeezed but by 15%?AveryLP said:
[Ladbroke's] prices could all change on Monday afternoon when Lord Ashcroft publishes his constituency poll.shadsy said:Ladbrokes have a few extra betting options on Newark;
https://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/newark-ukip-now-31-to-win-first-mp/
With two former titans of the bookmaking industry financing UKIP and with donors likely to have access to the party's canvassing returns, one would have thought that party money loading on the kippers today would be the most reliable indicator of the gap being closed.
And yet you push out the prices for UKIP.
The UKIP ramping is beginning to appear like a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
% share in 2010 -> % share at by-election (change in % pts)
1. Oldham East and Saddleworth - 13 January 2011: 31.6% -> 31.9% (+0.3%)
2. Barnsley Central - 03 March 2011: 17.3% -> 4.2% (-13.1%)
3. Leicester South - 05 May 2011: 26.9% -> 22.5% (-4.4%)
4. Belfast West - 09 June 2011 [did not stand]
5. Inverclyde - 30 June 2011: 13.3% -> 2.2% (-11.1%)
6. Feltham and Heston - 15 December 2011: 34.0% -> 27.7% (-6.3%)
7. Bradford West - 29 March 2012: 11.7% -> 4.6% (-7.1%)
8. Cardiff South and Penarth - 15 November 2012: 22.3% -> 10.8% (-11.4%)
9. Corby - 15 November 2012: 14.4% -> 4.9% (-9.5%)
10. Manchester Central - 15 November 2012: 26.6% -> 9.4% (-17.2%)
11. Croydon North - 29 November 2012: 14.0% -> 3.5% (-10.5%)
12. Middlesbrough - 29 November 2012: 19.9% -> 9.9% (-10.0%)
13. Rotherham - 29 November 2012: 16.0% -> 2.1% (-13.9%)
14. Eastleigh - 28 February 2013: 46.5% -> 32.1% (-14.5%)
15. Mid Ulster - 7 March 2013 [did not stand]
16. South Shields - 2 May 2013: 14.2% -> 1.4% (-12.8%)
17. Wythenshawe & Sale East - 13 February 2014: 22.3% -> 4.9% (-17.4%)
Eight lost deposits for the LDs so far.
Newark 2010 result: CON 53.9%, LAB 22.3%, LD 20.0%, UKIP 3.8%
0 -
Yikes, hadn't realised things were so bad as all that, even though most of them have been in strong Labour areas. Seems to be getting worse as well. Based on that, another lost deposit looks odds on.NeilVW said:Hi all, newbie here. From old thread:
LD performance in by-elections so far this Parliamentfoxinsoxuk said:Shadsy has LibDems odds on to lose their deposit, in a seat in which they came a close third.
No doubt the vote will be squeezed but by 15%?AveryLP said:
[Ladbroke's] prices could all change on Monday afternoon when Lord Ashcroft publishes his constituency poll.shadsy said:Ladbrokes have a few extra betting options on Newark;
https://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/newark-ukip-now-31-to-win-first-mp/
With two former titans of the bookmaking industry financing UKIP and with donors likely to have access to the party's canvassing returns, one would have thought that party money loading on the kippers today would be the most reliable indicator of the gap being closed.
And yet you push out the prices for UKIP.
The UKIP ramping is beginning to appear like a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
% share in 2010 -> % share at by-election (change in % pts)
1. Oldham East and Saddleworth - 13 January 2011: 31.6% -> 31.9% (+0.3%)
2. Barnsley Central - 03 March 2011: 17.3% -> 4.2% (-13.1%)
3. Leicester South - 05 May 2011: 26.9% -> 22.5% (-4.4%)
4. Belfast West - 09 June 2011 [did not stand]
5. Inverclyde - 30 June 2011: 13.3% -> 2.2% (-11.1%)
6. Feltham and Heston - 15 December 2011: 34.0% -> 27.7% (-6.3%)
7. Bradford West - 29 March 2012: 11.7% -> 4.6% (-7.1%)
8. Cardiff South and Penarth - 15 November 2012: 22.3% -> 10.8% (-11.4%)
9. Corby - 15 November 2012: 14.4% -> 4.9% (-9.5%)
10. Manchester Central - 15 November 2012: 26.6% -> 9.4% (-17.2%)
11. Croydon North - 29 November 2012: 14.0% -> 3.5% (-10.5%)
12. Middlesbrough - 29 November 2012: 19.9% -> 9.9% (-10.0%)
13. Rotherham - 29 November 2012: 16.0% -> 2.1% (-13.9%)
14. Eastleigh - 28 February 2013: 46.5% -> 32.1% (-14.5%)
15. Mid Ulster - 7 March 2013 [did not stand]
16. South Shields - 2 May 2013: 14.2% -> 1.4% (-12.8%)
17. Wythenshawe & Sale East - 13 February 2014: 22.3% -> 4.9% (-17.4%)
Eight lost deposits for the LDs so far.
0 -
@Smarmeron appears to subscribe to the maxim, "necessitas non habet legem". I rather prefer "interest reipublicæ ne maleficia remaneant impunita".foxinsoxuk said:So taking bribes is OK if you need the money? Its a view!
0 -
Welcome! But I beat you to it with a tweet from some months ago!NeilVW said:Hi all, newbie here. From old thread:
LD performance in by-elections so far this Parliamentfoxinsoxuk said:Shadsy has LibDems odds on to lose their deposit, in a seat in which they came a close third.
No doubt the vote will be squeezed but by 15%?AveryLP said:
[Ladbroke's] prices could all change on Monday afternoon when Lord Ashcroft publishes his constituency poll.shadsy said:Ladbrokes have a few extra betting options on Newark;
https://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/newark-ukip-now-31-to-win-first-mp/
With two former titans of the bookmaking industry financing UKIP and with donors likely to have access to the party's canvassing returns, one would have thought that party money loading on the kippers today would be the most reliable indicator of the gap being closed.
And yet you push out the prices for UKIP.
The UKIP ramping is beginning to appear like a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
% share in 2010 -> % share at by-election (change in % pts)
1. Oldham East and Saddleworth - 13 January 2011: 31.6% -> 31.9% (+0.3%)
2. Barnsley Central - 03 March 2011: 17.3% -> 4.2% (-13.1%)
3. Leicester South - 05 May 2011: 26.9% -> 22.5% (-4.4%)
4. Belfast West - 09 June 2011 [did not stand]
5. Inverclyde - 30 June 2011: 13.3% -> 2.2% (-11.1%)
6. Feltham and Heston - 15 December 2011: 34.0% -> 27.7% (-6.3%)
7. Bradford West - 29 March 2012: 11.7% -> 4.6% (-7.1%)
8. Cardiff South and Penarth - 15 November 2012: 22.3% -> 10.8% (-11.4%)
9. Corby - 15 November 2012: 14.4% -> 4.9% (-9.5%)
10. Manchester Central - 15 November 2012: 26.6% -> 9.4% (-17.2%)
11. Croydon North - 29 November 2012: 14.0% -> 3.5% (-10.5%)
12. Middlesbrough - 29 November 2012: 19.9% -> 9.9% (-10.0%)
13. Rotherham - 29 November 2012: 16.0% -> 2.1% (-13.9%)
14. Eastleigh - 28 February 2013: 46.5% -> 32.1% (-14.5%)
15. Mid Ulster - 7 March 2013 [did not stand]
16. South Shields - 2 May 2013: 14.2% -> 1.4% (-12.8%)
17. Wythenshawe & Sale East - 13 February 2014: 22.3% -> 4.9% (-17.4%)
Eight lost deposits for the LDs so far.
Newark 2010 result: CON 53.9%, LAB 22.3%, LD 20.0%, UKIP 3.8%
http://t.co/VBgDNsxbwv0 -
@foxinsoxuk
"So taking bribes is OK if you need the money? Its a view!"
If you need the money to buy drugs and medical equipment because the "pharma" companies will not supply them without payment. or because your wages have not been paid for months, I can understand it.
The big pharma companies also need money to cover their costs.
e.g. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/03/glaxosmithkline-fined-bribing-doctors-pharmaceuticals0 -
The Austro-Hungarian forces on the Carpathian Front were really under German command by 1916.foxinsoxuk said:The Romanians were rather unwisely persuaded by our government to enter WW1 on our side, and as a consequence were largely occupied by the Bulgarian and Austro-Hungarian forces. Their losses as a percentage of population were higher than ours. They were indeed rewarded by the treaty of Versallies, in terms of territory.
0 -
The pharma companies did supply Greece for a long long time, based on promises by the government to pay. Then the government refused to pay without a retrospective discount.Smarmeron said:@foxinsoxuk
"So taking bribes is OK if you need the money? Its a view!"
If you need the money to buy drugs and medical equipment because the "pharma" companies will not supply them without payment. or because your wages have not been paid for months, I can understand it.
The big pharma companies also need money to cover their costs.
As a result, the companies continue to supply the basic, life-supporting medicines, but not the more expensive ones . So, for example, Novo supplies first and second generation basal insulin but not the pen-based formulations. The result is that the patients get their medicine, but have to go through the inconvenience of manual injections.0 -
It's a sad fact that the younger members of the "Golden Generation" of WWII are now being taken from us at a great rate and within the next generation we will see passing the last who served in WWII.Smarmeron said:@JackW
Indeed, RIP. You will be further saddened to know of my neighbour who died recently in her seventies. While not of the "old ruling class", she was not a bad old stick.
In a rather timely piece of serendipity this morning I was reading about Winston Churchill's funeral and then came across a short youtube video of the funeral. It still moves me :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Xkr8z3lEo
0 -
@Smarmeron
Greek doctors took bribes to expedite treatment long before the current crisis. Greece has been a deeply corrupt country - probably the most so in Europe - for a long time.0 -
O/T but very nicely phrased, so I thought I'd share
The tragedy of the Liberal Democrats is they're an honest party with dishonest voters. Liberal Democrat voters wanted to be able to say smugly "don't blame me, I voted Liberal Democrat" when the talk turned political at dinner parties. The hard-working, realistic, decent centrists of the Liberal Democrat parliamentary party took to Government rather well. It's the voters who couldn't handle the compromises of Government. Not being in a position to deliver all your promises is not the same as "lying".
And it seems Clegg, by obtaining power will destroy his party.
http://www.brackenworld.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-rise-of-ukip-heralds-return-to-two.html
0 -
@Charles
Indeed Charles, their generosity is unbounded. and after such a heavy fine, Glaxo Smith Kline will have learned their lesson on bribery.
The latest accusations by China and Poland along with their governments "evidence" will no doubt be shown to be a tissue of lies.
How is the regulation of the banking industry going?0 -
There may well be something in it. Those who jumped ship immediately or have been hysterical in how the LDs actions are supposedly without par in the political sphere in a negative sense, do seem to outnumber those who feel the compromises of government and the gains achieved have not been worth the cost, which is a much more reasonable position to take.Charles said:O/T but very nicely phrased, so I thought I'd share
The tragedy of the Liberal Democrats is they're an honest party with dishonest voters. Liberal Democrat voters wanted to be able to say smugly "don't blame me, I voted Liberal Democrat" when the talk turned political at dinner parties. The hard-working, realistic, decent centrists of the Liberal Democrat parliamentary party took to Government rather well. It's the voters who couldn't handle the compromises of Government. Not being in a position to deliver all your promises is not the same as "lying".
And it seems Clegg, by obtaining power will destroy his party.
http://www.brackenworld.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-rise-of-ukip-heralds-return-to-two.html
0 -
Regarding the Jenrick "hatchet job" by the Mail.. on the same page they have a piece on Helmer too which is equally unflattering ...
Maybe they want a Labour victory!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2644905/Newark-election-Will-brazen-dandy-really-cause-UKIP-earthquake-Meet-Roger-Helmer-Tory-defector-views-immigration-gays-make-Nigel-Farage-look-progressive.html0 -
You can't use the example of the US in the case of the pharma industry - they are basically repeated shakedowns by the government rather than crimes.Smarmeron said:@Charles
Indeed Charles, their generosity is unbounded. and after such a heavy fine, Glaxo Smith Kline will have learned their lesson on bribery.
The latest accusations by China and Poland along with their governments "evidence" will no doubt be shown to be a tissue of lies.
How is the regulation of the banking industry going?
One CEO I know told me that he budgeted $1bn per year in fines as "a cost of doing business" in the the States.
Regulation of the banking industry is a disaster. Politicians have focused on the wrong issues, while the regulators are snapping at each other throats and we have idiotic and inflexible rules like the mortgage cost of living calculations introduced. Conceptually it's eminently sensible - what banks should have been doing - to understand how customers can cope in a stress scenario, but the rules are far too prescriptive and detailed to be workable.0 -
Dr Sox
In communist Russia, and for a good period thereafter, private payment for medical services was the only means of securing treatment. I discovered this for myself when having to surrender a minimal sum to be put on saline drips following the spiking of my drink by a Chechen group when drinking innocently in a Moscow bar.
The key point though was minimal sum. At the time everyone in Russia had stacks of roubles and simply nothing to spend them on. So a grey economy developed where services supposedly provided free by the state were in reality 'paid for' in the grey market. Even if you didn't have roubles a barter transaction was possible.
The payments were not so much for core medical treatment but more like tips for underpaid and undermotivated state employees. They removed bureaucratic barriers to treatment.
Now if you had US dollars anything was possible even for a tiny amount. And in the two years when tobacco supplies became scarce a box of 200 Malboro Red could buy a full course of treatment for lung cancer.
I fear this is the direction the NHS would follow under a Miliband government. The migration of East European communist practice to the UK would become an unstoppable force.foxinsoxuk said:There is certainly corruption here; but in Greece it is not unusual now to have to pay a cash bribe to get treated on their NHS. We are not in that position yet!
Smarmeron said:@foxinsoxuk
I note that several posts on here have mentioned corruption in other less developed nations.
This begs the question. Is our corruption of higher quality?0 -
No country is free from corruption, the presence of some does not mean the country is a failure, and we are far from the worst or even middle of the pack when it comes to such things, and while 'relatively corruption free' may not be the best thing to be triumphant about, it's better than the alternative.Smarmeron said:@rcs1000
Unlike Britain? Corruption and bribery free (except when caught in the act)0 -
Almost 50 years since anyone has received a full State funeral.JackW said:
It's a sad fact that the younger members of the "Golden Generation" of WWII are now being taken from us at a great rate and within the next generation we will see passing the last who served in WWII.Smarmeron said:@JackW
Indeed, RIP. You will be further saddened to know of my neighbour who died recently in her seventies. While not of the "old ruling class", she was not a bad old stick.
In a rather timely piece of serendipity this morning I was reading about Winston Churchill's funeral and then came across a short youtube video of the funeral. It still moves me :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Xkr8z3lEo
Should be kept an exceedingly rare event.
0 -
I take it that's a No. You're not willing to breathe methane despite its being mixed with oxygen to ensure no suffocation. The sources I gave give you that picture too. Methane is a killer other wise than suffocating people. The people saying this are not Greens but former oil industry personnel who decided to break the true story of fracking to the public as they could see a massive deception taking place, as per your output, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you don't you repeat the rubbish the Greens are saying and add some of your own. Funny how people have been working and living around methane for hundreds of years and it is only now and with no scientific evidence, that we suddenly hear of it being a DNA disruptor. Sorry Tap but you are talking rubbish.Tapestry said:Babies are reported being born with defects in fracking areas, Richard. That's DNA disruption. See The Times of 29th April 2014, page 30 and all the ailments catalogued by the Perry family in Texas. Methane not toxic? Now really. You'll be laughing it all off with stories of cows farting next. It will be interesting to see if the Green vote at Newark exceeds expectations. I merely pass on what's in your local paper.
And no, methane is not toxic any more than fresh water. But both will still kill you if you stick your head in them for 20 minutes.
0 -
UKIP will sue OFCOM if they arent given equal status with the other two big parties
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-will-sue-if-nigel-farage-is-not-given-equal-air-time-to-labour-and-conservatives-in-tv-coverage-building-up-to-2015-general-election-9467522.html0 -
That is moving JackW. I think it's a shame that some of the basic respect of that era is no longer practiced.JackW said:
It's a sad fact that the younger members of the "Golden Generation" of WWII are now being taken from us at a great rate and within the next generation we will see passing the last who served in WWII.Smarmeron said:@JackW
Indeed, RIP. You will be further saddened to know of my neighbour who died recently in her seventies. While not of the "old ruling class", she was not a bad old stick.
In a rather timely piece of serendipity this morning I was reading about Winston Churchill's funeral and then came across a short youtube video of the funeral. It still moves me :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Xkr8z3lEo0 -
Aye. There have only been 4 since 1900, including my cousin Edward, but he didn't really deserve - or want - one (Craigavon felt guilty about how he had behaved and offered one up by way of apology and to try to bask in the reflected glory)Pulpstar said:
Almost 50 years since anyone has received a full State funeral.JackW said:
It's a sad fact that the younger members of the "Golden Generation" of WWII are now being taken from us at a great rate and within the next generation we will see passing the last who served in WWII.Smarmeron said:@JackW
Indeed, RIP. You will be further saddened to know of my neighbour who died recently in her seventies. While not of the "old ruling class", she was not a bad old stick.
In a rather timely piece of serendipity this morning I was reading about Winston Churchill's funeral and then came across a short youtube video of the funeral. It still moves me :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Xkr8z3lEo
Should be kept an exceedingly rare event.0 -
Farage on UKIPs tax and education policies
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27654958
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/01/nigel-farage-ukip-schools-taxes0 -
Thanks, lovely graph! Consider yourself followed. :-)Sunil_Prasannan said:
Welcome! But I beat you to it with a tweet from some months ago!NeilVW said:Hi all, newbie here. From old thread:
LD performance in by-elections so far this Parliamentfoxinsoxuk said:Shadsy has LibDems odds on to lose their deposit, in a seat in which they came a close third.
No doubt the vote will be squeezed but by 15%?AveryLP said:
[Ladbroke's] prices could all change on Monday afternoon when Lord Ashcroft publishes his constituency poll.shadsy said:Ladbrokes have a few extra betting options on Newark;
https://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/newark-ukip-now-31-to-win-first-mp/
With two former titans of the bookmaking industry financing UKIP and with donors likely to have access to the party's canvassing returns, one would have thought that party money loading on the kippers today would be the most reliable indicator of the gap being closed.
And yet you push out the prices for UKIP.
The UKIP ramping is beginning to appear like a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
% share in 2010 -> % share at by-election (change in % pts)
1. Oldham East and Saddleworth - 13 January 2011: 31.6% -> 31.9% (+0.3%)
2. Barnsley Central - 03 March 2011: 17.3% -> 4.2% (-13.1%)
3. Leicester South - 05 May 2011: 26.9% -> 22.5% (-4.4%)
4. Belfast West - 09 June 2011 [did not stand]
5. Inverclyde - 30 June 2011: 13.3% -> 2.2% (-11.1%)
6. Feltham and Heston - 15 December 2011: 34.0% -> 27.7% (-6.3%)
7. Bradford West - 29 March 2012: 11.7% -> 4.6% (-7.1%)
8. Cardiff South and Penarth - 15 November 2012: 22.3% -> 10.8% (-11.4%)
9. Corby - 15 November 2012: 14.4% -> 4.9% (-9.5%)
10. Manchester Central - 15 November 2012: 26.6% -> 9.4% (-17.2%)
11. Croydon North - 29 November 2012: 14.0% -> 3.5% (-10.5%)
12. Middlesbrough - 29 November 2012: 19.9% -> 9.9% (-10.0%)
13. Rotherham - 29 November 2012: 16.0% -> 2.1% (-13.9%)
14. Eastleigh - 28 February 2013: 46.5% -> 32.1% (-14.5%)
15. Mid Ulster - 7 March 2013 [did not stand]
16. South Shields - 2 May 2013: 14.2% -> 1.4% (-12.8%)
17. Wythenshawe & Sale East - 13 February 2014: 22.3% -> 4.9% (-17.4%)
Eight lost deposits for the LDs so far.
Newark 2010 result: CON 53.9%, LAB 22.3%, LD 20.0%, UKIP 3.8%
http://t.co/VBgDNsxbwv
0 -
Completely O/T but read through todays threads and the site has returned to how it used to be 5 years ago, good (concise) thread headers, good to read, good contributors, sensible chat. Its like going to the pub on the night and finding the local thug and local pub bore have decided to stay in. Congrats Mike, pb.com still the best political betting thread.0
-
Thanks for posting that, Jack. The nodding of the cranes was particularly poignant, especially as the dockyards there have no all but gone.JackW said:
It's a sad fact that the younger members of the "Golden Generation" of WWII are now being taken from us at a great rate and within the next generation we will see passing the last who served in WWII.Smarmeron said:@JackW
Indeed, RIP. You will be further saddened to know of my neighbour who died recently in her seventies. While not of the "old ruling class", she was not a bad old stick.
In a rather timely piece of serendipity this morning I was reading about Winston Churchill's funeral and then came across a short youtube video of the funeral. It still moves me :
0 -
You're welcomeNeilVW said:
Thanks, lovely graph! Consider yourself followed. :-)Sunil_Prasannan said:
Welcome! But I beat you to it with a tweet from some months ago!NeilVW said:Hi all, newbie here. From old thread:
LD performance in by-elections so far this Parliamentfoxinsoxuk said:Shadsy has LibDems odds on to lose their deposit, in a seat in which they came a close third.
No doubt the vote will be squeezed but by 15%?AveryLP said:
[Ladbroke's] prices could all change on Monday afternoon when Lord Ashcroft publishes his constituency poll.shadsy said:Ladbrokes have a few extra betting options on Newark;
https://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/newark-ukip-now-31-to-win-first-mp/
With two former titans of the bookmaking industry financing UKIP and with donors likely to have access to the party's canvassing returns, one would have thought that party money loading on the kippers today would be the most reliable indicator of the gap being closed.
And yet you push out the prices for UKIP.
The UKIP ramping is beginning to appear like a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
% share in 2010 -> % share at by-election (change in % pts)
1. Oldham East and Saddleworth - 13 January 2011: 31.6% -> 31.9% (+0.3%)
2. Barnsley Central - 03 March 2011: 17.3% -> 4.2% (-13.1%)
3. Leicester South - 05 May 2011: 26.9% -> 22.5% (-4.4%)
4. Belfast West - 09 June 2011 [did not stand]
5. Inverclyde - 30 June 2011: 13.3% -> 2.2% (-11.1%)
6. Feltham and Heston - 15 December 2011: 34.0% -> 27.7% (-6.3%)
7. Bradford West - 29 March 2012: 11.7% -> 4.6% (-7.1%)
8. Cardiff South and Penarth - 15 November 2012: 22.3% -> 10.8% (-11.4%)
9. Corby - 15 November 2012: 14.4% -> 4.9% (-9.5%)
10. Manchester Central - 15 November 2012: 26.6% -> 9.4% (-17.2%)
11. Croydon North - 29 November 2012: 14.0% -> 3.5% (-10.5%)
12. Middlesbrough - 29 November 2012: 19.9% -> 9.9% (-10.0%)
13. Rotherham - 29 November 2012: 16.0% -> 2.1% (-13.9%)
14. Eastleigh - 28 February 2013: 46.5% -> 32.1% (-14.5%)
15. Mid Ulster - 7 March 2013 [did not stand]
16. South Shields - 2 May 2013: 14.2% -> 1.4% (-12.8%)
17. Wythenshawe & Sale East - 13 February 2014: 22.3% -> 4.9% (-17.4%)
Eight lost deposits for the LDs so far.
Newark 2010 result: CON 53.9%, LAB 22.3%, LD 20.0%, UKIP 3.8%
http://t.co/VBgDNsxbwv 0 -
If UKIP is going to litigate, it is sensible to start laying the groundwork now, and avoid the SNP's utterly counter-productive litigation strategy in the Court of Session in 2010. The problem UKIP may have is that there may not be a decision from OfCom which is amenable to judicial review until very close to the election, reducing the time for challenge substantially. As for the merits, it will be an uphill struggle, but you never know...isam said:UKIP will sue OFCOM if they arent given equal status with the other two big parties
0 -
What's the betting that FIFA decide that nothing needs to be changed?
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/01/qatar-2022-world-cup-allegations-fifa-revote?CMP=twt_fd0 -
@ToryJim
" I think it's a shame that some of the basic respect of that era is no longer practiced. "
Get Gove to put forelock tugging into the curriculum perhaps?
The death of someone is always sad. But if you want respect, try earning it instead of demanding it as a birthright.
A great play is made on here of the honour and traditions of the "old families"
The news is, they were a corrupt as the new families but their "indiscretions" (never of course incompetence or criminality) were covered up by the "system" lest the lower orders got the impression they were really just the same as those they ruled over.0 -
On topic, in terms of neighbours I have had (not many), ratings are:
(1) Vicar who cuts my grass for me
(2) Young bank workers
(3) Bodybuilding white van man
(4) Young alcoholic couple
(5) Couple who didn't get to know well cos they didn't speak English
(6) School teacher and BT engineer
(7) Violent benefit cheats
Three of my neighbours were from ethinic minorities, without stating which was which, their ethnicity was always irrelevant.
Lucklily for me my current neighbours rank number 1 and number 3.0 -
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The trouble with the concept of earned respect is that almost all of us will do something to fail to earn it. The trouble with modernity is that disrespect is automatic and outright hostility and brutalism follows close behind.Smarmeron said:@ToryJim
" I think it's a shame that some of the basic respect of that era is no longer practiced. "
Get Gove to put forelock tugging into the curriculum perhaps?
The death of someone is always sad. But if you want respect, try earning it instead of demanding it as a birthright.
A great play is made on here of the honour and traditions of the "old families"
The news is, they were a corrupt as the new families but their "indiscretions" (never of course incompetence or criminality) were covered up by the "system" lest the lower orders got the impression they were really just the same as those they ruled over.0 -
JackJackW said:
She lived long enough to know all her eleven grandchildren.
And there may be a great future in the confluence of Marlborough and Smith blood. The one to watch is her granddaughter Isabella Soames, seen here celebrating her eleven A* grades in GCSE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdHGpxMldTU
The future is our strength.
RIP, Lady Soames.
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I'm going to guess (2), (3) and (5) ;-) Would consider switching out (3) for (6) though.AlbionTilIDie said:On topic, in terms of neighbours I have had (not many), ratings are:
(1) Vicar who cuts my grass for me
(2) Young bank workers
(3) Bodybuilding white van man
(4) Young alcoholic couple
(5) Couple who didn't get to know well cos they didn't speak English
(6) School teacher and BT engineer
(7) Violent benefit cheats
Three of my neighbours were from ethinic minorities, without stating which was which, their ethnicity was always irrelevant.
Lucklily for me my current neighbours rank number 1 and number 3.0 -
Churchill certainly earnt it in spades.Smarmeron said:@ToryJim
" I think it's a shame that some of the basic respect of that era is no longer practiced. "
Get Gove to put forelock tugging into the curriculum perhaps?
The death of someone is always sad. But if you want respect, try earning it instead of demanding it as a birthright.
A great play is made on here of the honour and traditions of the "old families"
The news is, they were a corrupt as the new families but their "indiscretions" (never of course incompetence or criminality) were covered up by the "system" lest the lower orders got the impression they were really just the same as those they ruled over.0 -
Here's an OECD map of world corruption ratings: http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/
FWIW, Britain is 14th least corrupt out of 177 countries. Romania is tied with Italy on 69th.0 -
@AveryLP
Breeding will out? It goes against the mathematics of what is known about human genetics.
Still if it keeps you happy.
On a more rational level, if you took a kid from a "sink estate" and gave the child the same advantages as your little heroine has had, you would in general find no distinguishable difference.
Smart is good. Family and contacts are a surer way to wealth.0 -
Er Tap, I have worked in mines and on oil rigs over the years and have many times breathed methane at non suffocation levels, rarely on very close to suffocation levels. Actually so has anyone who has left the gas on at home by mistake.Tapestry said:
I take it that's a No. You're not willing to breathe methane despite its being mixed with oxygen to ensure no suffocation. The sources I gave give you that picture too. Methane is a killer other wise than suffocating people. The people saying this are not Greens but former oil industry personnel who decided to break the true story of fracking to the public as they could see a massive deception taking place, as per your output, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you don't you repeat the rubbish the Greens are saying and add some of your own. Funny how people have been working and living around methane for hundreds of years and it is only now and with no scientific evidence, that we suddenly hear of it being a DNA disruptor. Sorry Tap but you are talking rubbish.Tapestry said:Babies are reported being born with defects in fracking areas, Richard. That's DNA disruption. See The Times of 29th April 2014, page 30 and all the ailments catalogued by the Perry family in Texas. Methane not toxic? Now really. You'll be laughing it all off with stories of cows farting next. It will be interesting to see if the Green vote at Newark exceeds expectations. I merely pass on what's in your local paper.
And no, methane is not toxic any more than fresh water. But both will still kill you if you stick your head in them for 20 minutes.
And no, no one in the oil industry or in science is claiming that methane is toxic. It is a stupid and completely false claim0 -
Oh don't be so silly, Smarmy.Smarmeron said:@ToryJim
" I think it's a shame that some of the basic respect of that era is no longer practiced. "
Get Gove to put forelock tugging into the curriculum perhaps?
The death of someone is always sad. But if you want respect, try earning it instead of demanding it as a birthright.
A great play is made on here of the honour and traditions of the "old families"
The news is, they were a corrupt as the new families but their "indiscretions" (never of course incompetence or criminality) were covered up by the "system" lest the lower orders got the impression they were really just the same as those they ruled over.
It matters not what you get up to in bed chambers or banking halls. it is one's conduct at the dining table which counts in life.
Now go and learn how to hold a knife and fork.
0 -
1 out of 3. (2) were a couple from Derby who had moved to the "big city" Birmingham, (3) were both born 3 miles from where they live now and will never leave the area. *(5) were definitely foreign, but only being able to speak some language I don't recognise (I think Arabic) was a bit of a drawback. I never even worked out what country they were from - definitely middle eastern but no idea where. Had the biggest satellite dish on their house I have ever seen.Charles said:
I'm going to guess (2), (3) and (5) ;-) Would consider switching out (3) for (6) though.AlbionTilIDie said:On topic, in terms of neighbours I have had (not many), ratings are:
(1) Vicar who cuts my grass for me
(2) Young bank workers
(3) Bodybuilding white van man
(4) Young alcoholic couple
(5) Couple who didn't get to know well cos they didn't speak English
(6) School teacher and BT engineer
(7) Violent benefit cheats
Three of my neighbours were from ethinic minorities, without stating which was which, their ethnicity was always irrelevant.
Lucklily for me my current neighbours rank number 1 and number 3.0 -
@Blueberry
Only fourteenth? If that was an education table, you would all be foaming at the mouth demanding something be done.
0 -
Oh, and 6 were quintiscential immigrants (Vietnamese boat people). We only ever argued twice, once when they complained about kids playing football in the street (which I believe is a basic human right!) and once for letting their house illegally to the violent benefit cheats!Charles said:
I'm going to guess (2), (3) and (5) ;-) Would consider switching out (3) for (6) though.AlbionTilIDie said:On topic, in terms of neighbours I have had (not many), ratings are:
(1) Vicar who cuts my grass for me
(2) Young bank workers
(3) Bodybuilding white van man
(4) Young alcoholic couple
(5) Couple who didn't get to know well cos they didn't speak English
(6) School teacher and BT engineer
(7) Violent benefit cheats
Three of my neighbours were from ethinic minorities, without stating which was which, their ethnicity was always irrelevant.
Lucklily for me my current neighbours rank number 1 and number 3.0 -
If methane is so dangerous, what the feck are we doing piping it into people's homes?Richard_Tyndall said:
And no, no one in the oil industry or in science is claiming that methane is toxic. It is a stupid and completely false claimTapestry said:
I take it that's a No. You're not willing to breathe methane despite its being mixed with oxygen to ensure no suffocation. The sources I gave give you that picture too. Methane is a killer other wise than suffocating people. The people saying this are not Greens but former oil industry personnel who decided to break the true story of fracking to the public as they could see a massive deception taking place, as per your output, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you don't you repeat the rubbish the Greens are saying and add some of your own. Funny how people have been working and living around methane for hundreds of years and it is only now and with no scientific evidence, that we suddenly hear of it being a DNA disruptor. Sorry Tap but you are talking rubbish.Tapestry said:Babies are reported being born with defects in fracking areas, Richard. That's DNA disruption. See The Times of 29th April 2014, page 30 and all the ailments catalogued by the Perry family in Texas. Methane not toxic? Now really. You'll be laughing it all off with stories of cows farting next. It will be interesting to see if the Green vote at Newark exceeds expectations. I merely pass on what's in your local paper.
And no, methane is not toxic any more than fresh water. But both will still kill you if you stick your head in them for 20 minutes.
Of all the objections to fracking, this must be one of the dumbest.....oh, and only a teeny tiny percentage of people in Britain get their water from private wells - the source of concern in the US - the overwhelming majority in the UK are on the water mains.....
0 -
So you agree that private school is better than state school?Smarmeron said:@AveryLP
Breeding will out? It goes against the mathematics of what is known about human genetics.
Still if it keeps you happy.
On a more rational level, if you took a kid from a "sink estate" and gave the child the same advantages as your little heroine has had, you would in general find no distinguishable difference.
Smart is good. Family and contacts are a surer way to wealth.0 -
Good manners cost nothing. In general, our society is a good deal coarser than at the time of Churchill's funeral.Smarmeron said:@ToryJim
" I think it's a shame that some of the basic respect of that era is no longer practiced. "
Get Gove to put forelock tugging into the curriculum perhaps?
The death of someone is always sad. But if you want respect, try earning it instead of demanding it as a birthright.
A great play is made on here of the honour and traditions of the "old families"
The news is, they were a corrupt as the new families but their "indiscretions" (never of course incompetence or criminality) were covered up by the "system" lest the lower orders got the impression they were really just the same as those they ruled over.
0 -
Though to be fair the water that gets into those mains often comes from underground aquifers. If we did end up polluting them (with the chemicals not the methane of course which is already there in many of our aquifers) then it would be an issue.CarlottaVance said:
If methane is so dangerous, what the feck are we doing piping it into people's homes?Richard_Tyndall said:
And no, no one in the oil industry or in science is claiming that methane is toxic. It is a stupid and completely false claimTapestry said:
I take it that's a No. You're not willing to breathe methane despite its being mixed with oxygen to ensure no suffocation. The sources I gave give you that picture too. Methane is a killer other wise than suffocating people. The people saying this are not Greens but former oil industry personnel who decided to break the true story of fracking to the public as they could see a massive deception taking place, as per your output, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you don't you repeat the rubbish the Greens are saying and add some of your own. Funny how people have been working and living around methane for hundreds of years and it is only now and with no scientific evidence, that we suddenly hear of it being a DNA disruptor. Sorry Tap but you are talking rubbish.Tapestry said:Babies are reported being born with defects in fracking areas, Richard. That's DNA disruption. See The Times of 29th April 2014, page 30 and all the ailments catalogued by the Perry family in Texas. Methane not toxic? Now really. You'll be laughing it all off with stories of cows farting next. It will be interesting to see if the Green vote at Newark exceeds expectations. I merely pass on what's in your local paper.
And no, methane is not toxic any more than fresh water. But both will still kill you if you stick your head in them for 20 minutes.
Of all the objections to fracking, this must be one of the dumbest.....oh, and only a teeny tiny percentage of people in Britain get their water from private wells - the source of concern in the US - the overwhelming majority in the UK are on the water mains.....0 -
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By the way, maybe Tap would like to explain where he thinks methane comes from in the first place. It might be illuminating (not to say highly amusing) to see how he thinks it becomes a DNA and endocrine disruptor given its origins.0
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CarlottaVance said:
And where does the water in the mains come from? I can assure you that a lot of bore holes are used and these would face the same problems as wells. In fact, borehole contamination is already a problem in this country.Richard_Tyndall said:If methane is so dangerous, what the feck are we doing piping it into people's homes?
Of all the objections to fracking, this must be one of the dumbest.....oh, and only a teeny tiny percentage of people in Britain get their water from private wells - the source of concern in the US - the overwhelming majority in the UK are on the water mains.....0 -
@CarlottaVance
Aquifer water makes a major contribution to the water supply of the South East.
This might prove entertaining when people work out where their water comes from.
(Yes, I know most of you only drink bottled melt water from a secret spring in the upper Andes, but I was talking about normal people)0 -
looks sadly like some backpeddling going on in Sudan
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/sudan/10868399/Sudan-backtracks-on-pledge-to-free-woman-sentenced-to-death-for-apostasy.html0 -
In the "right" mix with air, methane can be explosive, but then so can dust.CarlottaVance said:
If methane is so dangerous, what the feck are we doing piping it into people's homes?Richard_Tyndall said:
And no, no one in the oil industry or in science is claiming that methane is toxic. It is a stupid and completely false claimTapestry said:
I take it that's a No. You're not willing to breathe methane despite its being mixed with oxygen to ensure no suffocation. The sources I gave give you that picture too. Methane is a killer other wise than suffocating people. The people saying this are not Greens but former oil industry personnel who decided to break the true story of fracking to the public as they could see a massive deception taking place, as per your output, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you don't you repeat the rubbish the Greens are saying and add some of your own. Funny how people have been working and living around methane for hundreds of years and it is only now and with no scientific evidence, that we suddenly hear of it being a DNA disruptor. Sorry Tap but you are talking rubbish.Tapestry said:Babies are reported being born with defects in fracking areas, Richard. That's DNA disruption. See The Times of 29th April 2014, page 30 and all the ailments catalogued by the Perry family in Texas. Methane not toxic? Now really. You'll be laughing it all off with stories of cows farting next. It will be interesting to see if the Green vote at Newark exceeds expectations. I merely pass on what's in your local paper.
And no, methane is not toxic any more than fresh water. But both will still kill you if you stick your head in them for 20 minutes.
Of all the objections to fracking, this must be one of the dumbest.....oh, and only a teeny tiny percentage of people in Britain get their water from private wells - the source of concern in the US - the overwhelming majority in the UK are on the water mains.....
Concerning wells: sadly, in the US many farms in the midwest can no longer drink their well water owing to pollution by long term intense use of fertlizers---by nitrates perhaps.
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"you would all be foaming at the mouth". You've got me all wrong. Never foamed in my life. However, I do find it astonishing though that our government thinks it's a good deal to have an open border with eastern Europe. Your average Britain gets absolutely nothing out of it.Smarmeron said:@Blueberry
Only fourteenth? If that was an education table, you would all be foaming at the mouth demanding something be done.0 -
Ah, the good old Peckham Spring.Smarmeron said:@CarlottaVance
Aquifer water makes a major contribution to the water supply of the South East.
This might prove entertaining when people work out where their water comes from.
(Yes, I know most of you only drink bottled melt water from a secret spring in the upper Andes, but I was talking about normal people)0
