With three months to go opposition to Brexit reaches its highest level yet – politicalbetting.com
YouGov's Brexit tracker has those thinking Brexit wrong is at highest level since the referendum pic.twitter.com/7IS1kfhjPt
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First of probably 7000 lorries on 1st January1
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1st. Unlike me in the queue for flu jab.1
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3rd like EFC.0
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Isn't 'Would you rejoin the EU ?' the correct question now
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I really do not see the point as everyone says we have left and only the SNP and Plaid do not accept it0
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I have a feeling that with Covid + Brexit, the next six months could make 1979's 'Winter of Discontent' look like a summer's weekend.3
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Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.3 -
Only a government of the criminally insane would No Deal in the middle of this pandemic.Benpointer said:I have a feeling that with Covid + Brexit, the next six months could make 1979's 'Winter of Discontent' look like a summer's weekend.
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Well I hope we continue to bury our dead unlike in 1979Benpointer said:I have a feeling that with Covid + Brexit, the next six months could make 1979's 'Winter of Discontent' look like a summer's weekend.
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82% of Leavers and 76% of Tory voters though still think Brexit was right and with a Tory majority of 80 little chance of any real change until the next general election in 2024 and probably not even a shift to a soft Brexit EFTA/EEA relationship unless Sunak replaces Boris as PM
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1310657045230751744?s=200 -
True... but not massively reassuring.rottenborough said:
Only a government of the criminally insane would No Deal in the middle of this pandemic.Benpointer said:I have a feeling that with Covid + Brexit, the next six months could make 1979's 'Winter of Discontent' look like a summer's weekend.
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Tories will hit terrible polling numbers by spring if No Deal means medication shortages in middle of a pandemic.
They wont recover before 2024.2 -
71% of housewives in East Lancashire and 81% in Hertfordshire expressed an interest in the concept of exotic ice-creams. Only 8% in Hertfordshire and 14% in Lancashire expressed positive hostility, whilst 5% expressed latent hostility. In Hertfordshire, 96% of the 50% who formed 20% of consumer spending were in favour. 0.6% told us where we could put our exotic ice creams.HYUFD said:82% of Leavers and 76% of Tory voters though still think Brexit was right and with a Tory majority of 80 little chance of any real change until the next general election in 2024 and probably not even a shift to a soft Brexit EFTA/EEA relationship unless Sunak replaces Boris as PM
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1310657045230751744?s=202 -
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.0 -
Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Siena . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 401 -
They wont by the middle of winter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
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FPT
What indeed constitutes "socialising"? Does it just mean - come into contact with somebody whilst being within the distances for approved "social distancing". It's one of those questions about the rule of six in pubs. Are you allowed to talk to somebody at an adjacent table, as long as the table in 2m away? Or are you only allowed to communicate with somebody at your table? In the North-East, if you're in a queue in the shop, are you allowed to talk to somebody next to you in the line?dixiedean said:
Yep. We aren't allowed to socialise with people outside our family bubble. Places of worship are specifically included in this.alex_ said:
And then Hancock claimed that the North East restrictions have been announced "in consultation with local council leaders". Local Council leaders who have responded that "yes, there have been some discussions, but they were given no notice of actual implementation". And it appears that as with much else, the headline announcement has gone out before the details have been finalised.Philip_Thompson said:
Illegal now in the Northeast.rottenborough said:Burnham cuts through the crap over 10pm pub shut and tells it like it is. It is just pushing people into their houses for socials.
I'd guess the idea nationwide though is it should be no more than six people rather than 40 people who are too pissed to maintain social distancing?
I'm not convinced it is a good idea.
But it doesn't specify what that entails. Can we meet to worship? But then be in breach if we ask about the well being of anyone attending? Or what?
And what, exactly, constitutes worship?
I appreciate these are arcane matters, but, as it stands, we don't know if we can go ahead or not tomorrow.
I understand fully the complaints about the spectacle of the media calling for "simple guidance" and then looking for elaborate loopholes when this guidance (eg. rule of six) is produced. But increasingly the latest laws are being backed up by legislation for significant fines and penalties. And yet nobody really knows what they can and can't do. And this isn't people inventing slightly silly scenarios.
And also, communication outside your household is actually important. It is many people's source for what is really going on in the world and (especially) the local area. If all such communication is now effectively being curtailed, what is people's source of information?0 -
Yes but even then 14 years in power is not a bad run and another 4 years of pure Toryism and Tory majority government to look forward to guaranteedrottenborough said:Tories will hit terrible polling numbers by spring if No Deal means medication shortages in middle of a pandemic.
They wont recover before 2024.0 -
The thing is we just do not knowrottenborough said:
They wont by the middle of winter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
The majority of the public have become risk averse0 -
The food and medicines haven't started running out yet, nor obvious massive inflation in the shops.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.0 -
Often it's for everyone except themselves.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.2 -
It is a bit late in the day to be worrying about Brexit.
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?2 -
Er, not in Wisconsin...HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 40
https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/wi-pres-0920/0 -
Fair commenteek said:
Often it's for everyone except themselves.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.0 -
Tory majority government maybe, but quite what "Toryism" you are detecting at the moment is a bit of a mystery?HYUFD said:
Yes but even then 14 years in power is not a bad run and another 4 years of pure Toryism and Tory majority government to look forward to guaranteedrottenborough said:Tories will hit terrible polling numbers by spring if No Deal means medication shortages in middle of a pandemic.
They wont recover before 2024.5 -
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.1 -
Trafalgar has Biden ahead by 3 in Wisconsin , the poll you’re talking about was their previous poll last month . As for Michigan Trafalgars lead isn’t backed by another poll in the last 6 months .HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 400 -
Meanwhile there is a hot war in the Caucasus.
https://twitter.com/shstepanyan/status/1310685738963525645?s=210 -
Sorry to hear this mate and I've heard from family around London as well they're feeling similarly isolated.MaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
I know it's not the same but you've got friends on this website who are hear even to listen, sometimes that helps me get through the darker times.
Hope you're both okay soon, sending you both my very best wishes.1 -
Very sorry to hear that @MaxPB.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.2 -
I suggested a theory this morning that ministers had got so used to arguing for anti economic policies, and were now so expectant of post no deal Brexit catastrophe, that they are almost totally desensitised to the idea that we should really be paying much attention to the economics of Covid policy either. And so they see little political advantage in taking account of it.Beibheirli_C said:It is a bit late in the day to be worrying about Brexit.
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?
Don't know what anyone else thought?1 -
I think it is going to be a very tough winter for a lot of people. If October comes and goes and no sign of positive news on any of the vaccines, 6 months of restrictions are soon going to be more like 12-18 months.MaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.2 -
These people have long lost their grip on reality. It is a fantasy world in their heads where we still hold all the cards and everything bad is project fear.alex_ said:
I suggested a theory this morning that ministers had got so used to arguing for anti economic policies, and were now so expectant of post no deal Brexit catastrophe, that they are almost totally desensitised to the idea that we should really be paying much attention to the economics of Covid policy either. And so they see little political advantage in taking account of it.Beibheirli_C said:It is a bit late in the day to be worrying about Brexit.
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?
Don't know what anyone else thought?1 -
I am so sorry for your loss and covid is without doubt creating a crisis in mental health and wellbeing that we have not experienced in our lifetimeMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.5 -
Which side are the baddies in this one ?williamglenn said:Meanwhile there is a hot war in the Caucasus.
https://twitter.com/shstepanyan/status/1310685738963525645?s=210 -
PB sends our best wishes to Max's family I'm sure, so sorry to hear this has happened.Benpointer said:
Very sorry to hear that @MaxPB.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.1 -
It's a Biden landslide incoming...nico679 said:
Trafalgar has Biden ahead by 3 in Wisconsin , the poll you’re talking about was their previous poll last month . As for Michigan Trafalgars lead isn’t backed by another poll in the last 6 months .HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 40
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There's also a lot of people who see advantages in stringing out draconian measures as long as possible, because it's actually helping them out in the short term as the Govt has to put in place compensatory laws. Furlough money, bans on eviction proceedings, mortgage and rent holidays etc etc.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Fair commenteek said:
Often it's for everyone except themselves.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
But these can't go on or be repeated indefinitely - it's creating a vicious circle, delaying the inevitable and making the crash much worse when it finally comes.0 -
AzerbaijanPulpstar said:
Which side are the baddies in this one ?williamglenn said:Meanwhile there is a hot war in the Caucasus.
https://twitter.com/shstepanyan/status/1310685738963525645?s=210 -
OK I give Biden Wisconsin too then but Trafalgar were the only pollster to have Trump ahead in Michigan in 2016 too and they were correct then. If Biden picks up Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and NE02 and Maine02 but Trump holds his other 2016 states, Trump narrowly wins 274 to 264nico679 said:
Trafalgar has Biden ahead by 3 in Wisconsin , the poll you’re talking about was their previous poll last month . As for Michigan Trafalgars lead isn’t backed by another poll in the last 6 months .HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 400 -
Thanks, I'm sure it will pass and we'll figure out a way to see everyone again soon even if it means living on the edge of the rules. As I've said many times before, I'm genuinely very lucky to be married to a loving wife and have a large enough flat for two of us to live comfortably. There are so many people who aren't as fortunate, no one is speaking for them at the moment and we're sleepwalking into a huge bout of mental health conditions and depression among people who would not normally have to contend with such things. Lockdown as a medicine will prove worse than the disease, IMO.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Sorry to hear this mate and I've heard from family around London as well they're feeling similarly isolated.MaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
I know it's not the same but you've got friends on this website who are hear even to listen, sometimes that helps me get through the darker times.
Hope you're both okay soon, sending you both my very best wishes.5 -
No Deal it is thenrottenborough said:
Only a government of the criminally insane would No Deal in the middle of this pandemic.Benpointer said:I have a feeling that with Covid + Brexit, the next six months could make 1979's 'Winter of Discontent' look like a summer's weekend.
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Sorry to hear about your relativeMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.2 -
Oh Max - I am so sorry to hear that. Sending you all love and condolences.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.5 -
It's a real credit to your character that you're still thinking of others, as I wouldn't blame you for worrying about your own situation at present, not one bit.MaxPB said:
Thanks, I'm sure it will pass and we'll figure out a way to see everyone again soon even if it means living on the edge of the rules. As I've said many times before, I'm genuinely very lucky to be married to a loving wife and have a large enough flat for two of us to live comfortably. There are so many people who aren't as fortunate, no one is speaking for them at the moment and we're sleepwalking into a huge bout of mental health conditions and depression among people who would not normally have to contend with such things. Lockdown as a medicine will prove worse than the disease, IMO.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Sorry to hear this mate and I've heard from family around London as well they're feeling similarly isolated.MaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
I know it's not the same but you've got friends on this website who are hear even to listen, sometimes that helps me get through the darker times.
Hope you're both okay soon, sending you both my very best wishes.
I was sorry to read the comments about your relative as well.2 -
I can't help but believe though that what people think is that they back restrictions that mean *other people* having to lock down etc., but have no real great desire to do it themselves. Whilst they think they have their own freedoms they're quite happy to say that other people should stop mass swarming on pubs or beaches or student campuses or whatever.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
In fact if I take it a step further I bet there is a significant percentage of the population out there who would, even when the government tells everyone no household mixing over Christmas, still happily back that rule whilst breaching it themselves yet bitching about the fact the neighbours had folk round.1 -
It’s not over till it’s over . Still a month to go and a lot can happen . I still have nightmares from 4 years ago.Foxy said:
It's a Biden landslide incoming...nico679 said:
Trafalgar has Biden ahead by 3 in Wisconsin , the poll you’re talking about was their previous poll last month . As for Michigan Trafalgars lead isn’t backed by another poll in the last 6 months .HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 401 -
I don't really trust any of the opinion polls after they got it so wrong last time.nico679 said:
It’s not over till it’s over . Still a month to go and a lot can happen . I still have nightmares from 4 years ago.Foxy said:
It's a Biden landslide incoming...nico679 said:
Trafalgar has Biden ahead by 3 in Wisconsin , the poll you’re talking about was their previous poll last month . As for Michigan Trafalgars lead isn’t backed by another poll in the last 6 months .HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 401 -
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT3 -
I trust Trafalgar though who got the rustbelt state polls right in 2016Andy_JS said:
I don't really trust any of the opinion polls after they got it so wrong last time.nico679 said:
It’s not over till it’s over . Still a month to go and a lot can happen . I still have nightmares from 4 years ago.Foxy said:
It's a Biden landslide incoming...nico679 said:
Trafalgar has Biden ahead by 3 in Wisconsin , the poll you’re talking about was their previous poll last month . As for Michigan Trafalgars lead isn’t backed by another poll in the last 6 months .HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 400 -
If one thing good is to come out of this terrible pandemic - and I know we all have different views we have argued about - that we can agree on, is that I hope the idea of community and society is now understood and cherished.
It is so easy to find others who love and care for you, you just need to look for them. They'll be there for you, I promise.3 -
You do have a fair pointsolarflare said:
I can't help but believe though that what people think is that they back restrictions that mean *other people* having to lock down etc., but have no real great desire to do it themselves. Whilst they think they have their own freedoms they're quite happy to say that other people should stop mass swarming on pubs or beaches or student campuses or whatever.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
In fact if I take it a step further I bet there is a significant percentage of the population out there who would, even when the government tells everyone no household mixing over Christmas, still happily back that rule whilst breaching it themselves yet bitching about the fact the neighbours had folk round.0 -
Lord Sumption on Newsnight now. I still think he's been right all along, but obviously we're in the minority according to the latest surveys. His argument is that healthy people shouldn't have been locked down at all.1
-
Will the stopped clock be right again? Better hope it's the same time...HYUFD said:
I trust Trafalgar though who got the rustbelt state polls right in 2016Andy_JS said:
I don't really trust any of the opinion polls after they got it so wrong last time.nico679 said:
It’s not over till it’s over . Still a month to go and a lot can happen . I still have nightmares from 4 years ago.Foxy said:
It's a Biden landslide incoming...nico679 said:
Trafalgar has Biden ahead by 3 in Wisconsin , the poll you’re talking about was their previous poll last month . As for Michigan Trafalgars lead isn’t backed by another poll in the last 6 months .HYUFD said:
Even Trafalgar has Biden ahead in Pennsylvania now, though it still has Trump ahead in Michigan and Wisconsinnico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Sienna . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 400 -
My beautiful in play betting opportunities. Gone. Sob.Pulpstar said:
Intriguingly Biden is seemingly ahead in PA-10. You're not waiting on Philly if thats the case.nico679 said:Big poll out for Pennsylvania from NYT/Siena . Fieldwork 25 to 27 September.
Biden 49
Trump 40
Although much like High Peak in 2017 I'll believe that when I see it.0 -
Never mind Ministers, the fact that only 50% of the country thinks Brexit is going badly say to me that maybe the other 50% of the country still thinks we are in the EU.alex_ said:
I suggested a theory this morning that ministers had got so used to arguing for anti economic policies, and were now so expectant of post no deal Brexit catastrophe, that they are almost totally desensitised to the idea that we should really be paying much attention to the economics of Covid policy either. And so they see little political advantage in taking account of it.Beibheirli_C said:It is a bit late in the day to be worrying about Brexit.
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?
Don't know what anyone else thought?
I wonder when the UK will finally be at home for Mr Reality to call?0 -
Apologies, i get very confused about your position, or maybe i get you confused with another poster. What is it that you are in the minority on?Andy_JS said:Lord Sumption on Newsnight now. I still think he's been right all along, but obviously we're in the minority according to the latest surveys. His argument is that healthy people shouldn't have been locked up at all.
I think i often see you arguing with "Covid sceptics", but presumably from above to are a "legislation sceptic" yourself. Or is it just you complaining about misrepresentation of eg. Swedish approach that i come across?0 -
Thanks, and to everyone else. As I said, it's not to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well and only met him a few times a year at family functions and weddings etc...Cyclefree said:
Oh Max - I am so sorry to hear that. Sending you all love and condolences.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.
My worry is that the cure is worse than the disease. COVID is only part of what drove him to suicide, I think the ill thought out, confusing and inconsistent policies have played a big role in it. It is creating so much uncertainty for everyone in the country not knowing when or how they will be able to see family and friends, I'm sure the thought of another six months of restrictions would have been a lot to bear for him and so many others in the country.
At every step of this crisis the government has acted with inconsistency and without thought for those who aren't fortunate to live in loving family units or large houses with big gardens. I'm honestly ashamed to have been a member of the party, knowing now how little thought they have given the less fortunate in a time of such great need.4 -
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment1 -
I am sorry to hear about your relative. I know that lockdown can be very hard on people. As someone who suffers bouts of depression, the Spring lockdown was very hard for me to bear. I have no doubt that there are a lot of people out there who will simply not get through.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
It feels like a world gone mad.2 -
Well that's a different argument. I think ministers know that Brexit is heading for total catastrophe, but for a long time they've basically assumed there's no way to change course. Actually pre-election it was possible to look at the situation and say that there were no good options (even if the situation was much the like of Johnson's making) but now they've got a healthy majority and 4 years. They've failed to come to terms with the fact that they could, if they wish, actually opt for pursuing the interests of the country over perceived party interests.Beibheirli_C said:
Never mind Ministers, the fact that only 50% of the country thinks Brexit is going badly say to me that maybe the other 50% of the country still thinks we are in the EU.alex_ said:
I suggested a theory this morning that ministers had got so used to arguing for anti economic policies, and were now so expectant of post no deal Brexit catastrophe, that they are almost totally desensitised to the idea that we should really be paying much attention to the economics of Covid policy either. And so they see little political advantage in taking account of it.Beibheirli_C said:It is a bit late in the day to be worrying about Brexit.
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?
Don't know what anyone else thought?
I wonder when the UK will finally be at home for Mr Reality to call?
But for them, there's no point in fighting what will happen (quite likely no deal on Jan 1st). What will be will be. And they know it will be bad.0 -
A post that does you great credit.MaxPB said:
Thanks, and to everyone else. As I said, it's not to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well and only met him a few times a year at family functions and weddings etc...Cyclefree said:
Oh Max - I am so sorry to hear that. Sending you all love and condolences.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.
My worry is that the cure is worse than the disease. COVID is only part of what drove him to suicide, I think the ill thought out, confusing and inconsistent policies have played a big role in it. It is creating so much uncertainty for everyone in the country not knowing when or how they will be able to see family and friends, I'm sure the thought of another six months of restrictions would have been a lot to bear for him and so many others in the country.
At every step of this crisis the government has acted with inconsistency and without thought for those who aren't fortunate to live in loving family units or large houses with big gardens. I'm honestly ashamed to have been a member of the party, knowing now how little thought they have given the less fortunate in a time of such great need.
Makes me reflect on the fact that it's relatively easy for me to support the restrictions, with plenty of space, living in the country, no work or financial worries... It's very much worse for so many people across the country.2 -
Well said. Pretty much couldn't agree more (although i would just say that the circumstances of our "lockdown" in March-May were nothing compared to the horrors inflicted on many other populations around the world. So it wasn't a total lack of understanding or empathy. But not nearly deep enough. I do think a lot has evolved from lack of competence or basic understanding of how many people live. Not complete callousness.MaxPB said:
Thanks, and to everyone else. As I said, it's not to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well and only met him a few times a year at family functions and weddings etc...Cyclefree said:
Oh Max - I am so sorry to hear that. Sending you all love and condolences.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.
My worry is that the cure is worse than the disease. COVID is only part of what drove him to suicide, I think the ill thought out, confusing and inconsistent policies have played a big role in it. It is creating so much uncertainty for everyone in the country not knowing when or how they will be able to see family and friends, I'm sure the thought of another six months of restrictions would have been a lot to bear for him and so mahttps://www.foodinaminute.co.nz/Recipes/Perfect-Roast-Potatoesny others in the country.
At every step of this crisis the government has acted with inconsistency and without thought for those who aren't fortunate to live in loving family units or large houses with big gardens. I'm honestly ashamed to have been a member of the party, knowing now how little thought they have given the less fortunate in a time of such great need.3 -
Rule of six (With a soft bending of the rules around kids edge) is sustainable for Crimbo,solarflare said:
I can't help but believe though that what people think is that they back restrictions that mean *other people* having to lock down etc., but have no real great desire to do it themselves. Whilst they think they have their own freedoms they're quite happy to say that other people should stop mass swarming on pubs or beaches or student campuses or whatever.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
In fact if I take it a step further I bet there is a significant percentage of the population out there who would, even when the government tells everyone no household mixing over Christmas, still happily back that rule whilst breaching it themselves yet bitching about the fact the neighbours had folk round.
No household mixing isn't.
The danger I see for the Gov't is that they ban all household mixing because they want to stop larger gatherings when the six rule would suffice0 -
This is the key virtue of the Swedish system. It's not lockdown-versus-total-freedom, we all know they had a soft, quasi-voluntary lockdown, which has hit their economy and cost lives.MaxPB said:
Thanks, and to everyone else. As I said, it's not to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well and only met him a few times a year at family functions and weddings etc...Cyclefree said:
Oh Max - I am so sorry to hear that. Sending you all love and condolences.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.
My worry is that the cure is worse than the disease. COVID is only part of what drove him to suicide, I think the ill thought out, confusing and inconsistent policies have played a big role in it. It is creating so much uncertainty for everyone in the country not knowing when or how they will be able to see family and friends, I'm sure the thought of another six months of restrictions would have been a lot to bear for him and so many others in the country.
At every step of this crisis the government has acted with inconsistency and without thought for those who aren't fortunate to live in loving family units or large houses with big gardens. I'm honestly ashamed to have been a member of the party, knowing now how little thought they have given the less fortunate in a time of such great need.
BUT the huge advantage is that they looked ahead: they envisaged a "marathon, not a sprint", they knew there probably wouldn't be a vaccine for a long time (if ever) so they had to bring in regulations that were clear, and precise, and coherent, and which could be followed by the whole nation for a long time, without destroying the economy.
So far, it seems to me, they have been entirely vindicated, Yes, they have lost lives (more than their neighbours) but they are not wobbling all over the place, plunging businesses into peril and sending poor lonely people to the edge.
I literally have no idea what the rules are now in London. Rule of six? Bubbles? What? And soon there will be lockdown 2 with more complexity??
It is a monumental fuck up, and the cure is, as you say, worse than the affliction.
0 -
Surely in that case they can easily fudge a deal at the last moment. Yes they'll have to weather a minor shitstorm from the extreme ERG wing but frankly Covid is all the excuse they need to do the deal.alex_ said:
Well that's a different argument. I think ministers know that Brexit is heading for total catastrophe, but for a long time they've basically assumed there's no way to change course. Actually pre-election it was possible to look at the situation and say that there were no good options (even if the situation was much the like of Johnson's making) but now they've got a healthy majority and 4 years. They've failed to come to terms with the fact that they could, if they wish, actually opt for pursuing the interests of the country over perceived party interests.Beibheirli_C said:
Never mind Ministers, the fact that only 50% of the country thinks Brexit is going badly say to me that maybe the other 50% of the country still thinks we are in the EU.alex_ said:
I suggested a theory this morning that ministers had got so used to arguing for anti economic policies, and were now so expectant of post no deal Brexit catastrophe, that they are almost totally desensitised to the idea that we should really be paying much attention to the economics of Covid policy either. And so they see little political advantage in taking account of it.Beibheirli_C said:It is a bit late in the day to be worrying about Brexit.
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?
Don't know what anyone else thought?
I wonder when the UK will finally be at home for Mr Reality to call?
But for them, there's no point in fighting what will happen (quite likely no deal on Jan 1st). What will be will be. And they know it will be bad.
My worry is that fundamentally they don't get it; they have been duped by their own propaganda.2 -
Even more so as he is almost certainly wrong at his ageBig_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment0 -
Is there anyone on here still willing to defend the government's handling of Covid?1
-
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment0 -
Had mine last Saturday the wife had hers today. My 90 Yr old mum told by GP that they dont have it yet and that she is getting a different sort to those who have already had it.rottenborough said:1st. Unlike me in the queue for flu jab.
0 -
Would it have been better if we'd dealt with this pandemic in the same way that we dealt with the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics? That's the big question IMO.LadyG said:
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment1 -
Well what would you rather they do, testing is up, they locked down, they could open everything up again but increase the death rate or shut up shop again and destroy the economy, there are no easy solutions whoever is in governmentBenpointer said:Is there anyone on here still willing to defend the government's handling of Covid?
2 -
I say YESAndy_JS said:
Would it have been better if we'd dealt with this pandemic in the same way that we dealt with the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics? That's the big question IMO.LadyG said:
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment1 -
No i think they know what's coming. The failing/delusion in their own minds is that the consequences will be the fault of others. If there are shortages on supermarket shelves it will be the failure of the supermarkets to make adequate preparations. Medicines? Those who source them for not stocking up sufficiently (never mind that many drugs can't be stocked). And the clincher will of course be that everything is the fault of Covid - which means the public will themselves be to blame.Benpointer said:
Surely in that case they can easily fudge a deal at the last moment. Yes they'll have to weather a minor shitstorm from the extreme ERG wing but frankly Covid is all the excuse they need to do the deal.alex_ said:
Well that's a different argument. I think ministers know that Brexit is heading for total catastrophe, but for a long time they've basically assumed there's no way to change course. Actually pre-election it was possible to look at the situation and say that there were no good options (even if the situation was much the like of Johnson's making) but now they've got a healthy majority and 4 years. They've failed to come to terms with the fact that they could, if they wish, actually opt for pursuing the interests of the country over perceived party interests.Beibheirli_C said:
Never mind Ministers, the fact that only 50% of the country thinks Brexit is going badly say to me that maybe the other 50% of the country still thinks we are in the EU.alex_ said:
I suggested a theory this morning that ministers had got so used to arguing for anti economic policies, and were now so expectant of post no deal Brexit catastrophe, that they are almost totally desensitised to the idea that we should really be paying much attention to the economics of Covid policy either. And so they see little political advantage in taking account of it.Beibheirli_C said:It is a bit late in the day to be worrying about Brexit.
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?
Don't know what anyone else thought?
I wonder when the UK will finally be at home for Mr Reality to call?
But for them, there's no point in fighting what will happen (quite likely no deal on Jan 1st). What will be will be. And they know it will be bad.
My worry is that fundamentally they don't get it; they have been duped by their own propaganda.1 -
Re Trump and his taxes: The Dems need to come out with some illustrations of how much of the US armed forces or other federal services could be maintained if everyone in the US paid $750 per annum in tax.1
-
Egged on by Turkey who seem to be trying to pick as many fights as ChinaFoxy said:
AzerbaijanPulpstar said:
Which side are the baddies in this one ?williamglenn said:Meanwhile there is a hot war in the Caucasus.
https://twitter.com/shstepanyan/status/1310685738963525645?s=21
1 -
You weren't saying that back in March though, were you?LadyG said:
I say YESAndy_JS said:
Would it have been better if we'd dealt with this pandemic in the same way that we dealt with the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics? That's the big question IMO.LadyG said:
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment4 -
Well i do remember articles about how the way that the Tory Govt dealt with at least one of those was a disgrace. Probably in "unnecessary deaths" was not far off what has happened here so far.Andy_JS said:
Would it have been better if we'd dealt with this pandemic in the same way that we dealt with the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics? That's the big question IMO.LadyG said:
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment0 -
When we had the first lockdown, we supported the government because they appeared to articulate a clear way out of this.
Now it appears that they have no idea and are imposing piecemeal requirements which are not thought through, and do not convey any plan of how to get us out of this.2 -
In the last month, I've been in New Mexico (moderate restrictions), Arizona (almost no restrictions) and Orange and Los Angeles counties, California (lots of restrictions).
Outside of Holbrook, AZ (a small town in the middle of nowhere), you couldn't tell the difference between the places with government mandated restrictions, and without.
Which tells you an important thing: behaviour is changed irrespective of government diktat.
Indeed, the hotels we stayed at in Arizona had more restrictions than the ones in California - so no room service, for example. (The reason being, apparently, that if the government mandates a behaviour, and you follow it, you're OK. But if they don't, and lots of people get sick, and you *could* have foreseen an issue, you will get sued. Especially by your staff.)
To go back to the first point though. Behaviour is changes by the virus, irrespective of what the government says. Shops insist on face coverings, irrespective of government policy. Restaraunt staff wear masks. There is no bar service. (Or, in Santa Fe, you have an orderly, distanced queue to get served at the bar, before heading off to the roof terrace to drink. Which worked, by the way, *really* well.)
This is, of course, why there is so little difference in outcomes between a Sweden and a France, or between an Arizona and a California.
But it also tells you that you might as well limit restrictions to the most dangerous of activities (karaoke, for example), plus requirements for mask wearing on public transport.
Because most people will still social distance and most stores and restaurants will impose restrictions.4 -
Who in God's name has not changed their minds multiple times over the last 9, terrible months?Benpointer said:
You weren't saying that back in March though, were you?LadyG said:
I say YESAndy_JS said:
Would it have been better if we'd dealt with this pandemic in the same way that we dealt with the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics? That's the big question IMO.LadyG said:
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment
This is the definition of a huge, unprecedented event. None of us has lived through the like.2 -
HYUFD said:
Well what would you rather they do, testing is up, they locked down, they could open everything up again but increase the death rate or shut up shop again and destroy the economy, there are no easy solutions whoever is in governmentBenpointer said:Is there anyone on here still willing to defend the government's handling of Covid?
Urgency, consistency and clarity would have been good for a start.0 -
Part of the trouble has been that the Real Swedish Model (keep things under control in a sustainable way with long term minor restrictions) got mixed up with a Fantasy Swedish Model (protect the economy, protect freedom, don't need to do anything, magic herd immunity).LadyG said:
This is the key virtue of the Swedish system. It's not lockdown-versus-total-freedom, we all know they had a soft, quasi-voluntary lockdown, which has hit their economy and cost lives.MaxPB said:
Thanks, and to everyone else. As I said, it's not to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well and only met him a few times a year at family functions and weddings etc...Cyclefree said:
Oh Max - I am so sorry to hear that. Sending you all love and condolences.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.
My worry is that the cure is worse than the disease. COVID is only part of what drove him to suicide, I think the ill thought out, confusing and inconsistent policies have played a big role in it. It is creating so much uncertainty for everyone in the country not knowing when or how they will be able to see family and friends, I'm sure the thought of another six months of restrictions would have been a lot to bear for him and so many others in the country.
At every step of this crisis the government has acted with inconsistency and without thought for those who aren't fortunate to live in loving family units or large houses with big gardens. I'm honestly ashamed to have been a member of the party, knowing now how little thought they have given the less fortunate in a time of such great need.
BUT the huge advantage is that they looked ahead: they envisaged a "marathon, not a sprint", they knew there probably wouldn't be a vaccine for a long time (if ever) so they had to bring in regulations that were clear, and precise, and coherent, and which could be followed by the whole nation for a long time, without destroying the economy.
So far, it seems to me, they have been entirely vindicated, Yes, they have lost lives (more than their neighbours) but they are not wobbling all over the place, plunging businesses into peril and sending poor lonely people to the edge.
I literally have no idea what the rules are now in London. Rule of six? Bubbles? What? And soon there will be lockdown 2 with more complexity??
It is a monumental fuck up, and the cure is, as you say, worse than the affliction.
Having said that, the UK let things get so out of hand in March that hard lockdown was inevitable then- a thousand or so deaths a day wasn't a goer. Please let us not make that mistake again.
Conclusion- fantasies about Swedish models are not a reliable way to run one's life.9 -
I just wish there was some consistency in the policy. Not even the most well informed people know what the government's current policy is or what their local policy is. It's a mess and that is weighing on the minds of everyone, some worse than others. There just doesn't seem to be any overall strategy that we're following, the policies all seem to have no aim or goal, they just are.LadyG said:
This is the key virtue of the Swedish system. It's not lockdown-versus-total-freedom, we all know they had a soft, quasi-voluntary lockdown, which has hit their economy and cost lives.MaxPB said:
Thanks, and to everyone else. As I said, it's not to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well and only met him a few times a year at family functions and weddings etc...Cyclefree said:
Oh Max - I am so sorry to hear that. Sending you all love and condolences.MaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.
My worry is that the cure is worse than the disease. COVID is only part of what drove him to suicide, I think the ill thought out, confusing and inconsistent policies have played a big role in it. It is creating so much uncertainty for everyone in the country not knowing when or how they will be able to see family and friends, I'm sure the thought of another six months of restrictions would have been a lot to bear for him and so many others in the country.
At every step of this crisis the government has acted with inconsistency and without thought for those who aren't fortunate to live in loving family units or large houses with big gardens. I'm honestly ashamed to have been a member of the party, knowing now how little thought they have given the less fortunate in a time of such great need.
BUT the huge advantage is that they looked ahead: they envisaged a "marathon, not a sprint", they knew there probably wouldn't be a vaccine for a long time (if ever) so they had to bring in regulations that were clear, and precise, and coherent, and which could be followed by the whole nation for a long time, without destroying the economy.
So far, it seems to me, they have been entirely vindicated, Yes, they have lost lives (more than their neighbours) but they are not wobbling all over the place, plunging businesses into peril and sending poor lonely people to the edge.
I literally have no idea what the rules are now in London. Rule of six? Bubbles? What? And soon there will be lockdown 2 with more complexity??
It is a monumental fuck up, and the cure is, as you say, worse than the affliction.
Everything seems to change from one day to the next. Clear and consistent guidelines as well as why they are needed would do a lot to help. Taking into account those who live in 300 square foot studio flats without outdoor space or the ability to have people over would also help.
As I said yesterday, moving to Switzerland has never been a serious consideration for us, now it seems inevitable.1 -
The guy behind Sweden's strategy has advised the PM Sweden is currently tightening its restrictions.
And as I keep saying, if the UK followed the restrictions we wouldn't have problems but we don't.
Sweden didn't have these issues.2 -
They've been terrible at every stage of the crisis. It's just that I'm not convinced any other government would have been any better at handling it.Benpointer said:Is there anyone on here still willing to defend the government's handling of Covid?
0 -
And decide on a plan and stick to it. And articulate the aims and consequences as best as you can. Provide certainty to businesses, and help to those in need (but not terminal). Unfortunately let some go to the wall - don't provide false hope. Show some backbone and don't respond to every critical newspaper headline. Keep parliament informed and engaged, and require ministers to communicate consistent messages (made easier if policy isn't changed every few weeks).Benpointer said:HYUFD said:
Well what would you rather they do, testing is up, they locked down, they could open everything up again but increase the death rate or shut up shop again and destroy the economy, there are no easy solutions whoever is in governmentBenpointer said:Is there anyone on here still willing to defend the government's handling of Covid?
Urgency, consistency and clarity would have been good for a start.
It really in some ways doesn't matter what the plan is (i'm exaggerating). But as long as it is explained and people largely understand what it is trying to achieve (even if they disagree) then you've won half the battle.1 -
I'm so sorry to hear of your relative, Max - thank you for talking it through with us.solarflare said:
I can't help but believe though that what people think is that they back restrictions that mean *other people* having to lock down etc., but have no real great desire to do it themselves. Whilst they think they have their own freedoms they're quite happy to say that other people should stop mass swarming on pubs or beaches or student campuses or whatever.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
In fact if I take it a step further I bet there is a significant percentage of the population out there who would, even when the government tells everyone no household mixing over Christmas, still happily back that rule whilst breaching it themselves yet bitching about the fact the neighbours had folk round.
On the point above, it's simultaneously true that most people are pro-lockdown and a significant minority are absolutely not up for it. So you get isolated scenes of wild overcrowding at the same time as you get polls showing people wanting tougher measures. I don't think there's a lot of hypocrisy out there, just different people.
What annoys *everyone*, though, is unclear rules. Eat out to help out and rule of 6 both work (in opposite directions) as they're easy to follow. Complicated stuff about numbers of households and different rules for pubs and gardens and living rooms don't get the same support because people can't get their heads round them and think that they keep changing - so then compliance does break down.2 -
PBs very own Howard Stern writes.LadyG said:
I say YESAndy_JS said:
Would it have been better if we'd dealt with this pandemic in the same way that we dealt with the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics? That's the big question IMO.LadyG said:
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment3 -
No. Because we knew what flu was then. How to treat it, how to avoid it, how it was transmitted, how to mitigate it. We also knew that, whilst sometimes fatal, it had no long lasting side effects for those who recovered. And that is was seasonal in nature.Andy_JS said:
Would it have been better if we'd dealt with this pandemic in the same way that we dealt with the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics? That's the big question IMO.LadyG said:
My mother, who recalls World War 2 (vaguely) opined today that this is the worst thing she has experienced since that war, and is, in some limited respects, even grimmer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My 6 year old grandson said to me at the weekendLadyG said:
God, that's awful. I am so sorryMaxPB said:
The majority are wrong. A relative of mine commited suicide earlier today, he lived alone and I have no doubt had mental health issues, however, his situation had been made many times worse by the virus measures. I'm not posting this to elicit sympathy, I didn't know him very well, but lockdown is not consequence free as some seem to believe. The spectre of long term unemployment and everything that comes with hangs over the nation and no one is even talking about it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is it seems the majority back lockdown and enforcementMaxPB said:Have to say this is the first time in a while my wife and I are starting to feel isolated from everyone. Our out if town friends are now not having people over and less willing to come to London. There's some we haven't seen for over 6 months except over zoom and it's really started to become quite sad.
I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment
We knew none of that in March. Indeed we still don't have a complete handle on all those issues.
Indeed you could argue treating it like flu was part of the problem. In initial modelling and public behaviour.5 -
HYUFD and PhilipBenpointer said:Is there anyone on here still willing to defend the government's handling of Covid?
4 -
I think I shall retreat back to my comfort zone of Number Theory & Pure Maths. At least things there make sense and have a beauty and elegance that is comforting.
Goodnight.0 -
Sweden had a clear and consistent strategy and goal from the beginning. All of their policies have been along the lines of that strategy, people understand the rules and why they exist.CorrectHorseBattery said:The guy behind Sweden's strategy has advised the PM Sweden is currently tightening its restrictions.
And as I keep saying, if the UK followed the restrictions we wouldn't have problems but we don't.
Sweden didn't have these issues.
If you asked 100 people across the country what rules they currently live under and why those rules were in place and what the government's intentions are other than "reduce cases tomorrow" how many would be able to answer it. In Sweden the majority can confidently answer all of those.1 -
TBF the UK's insane Devolution framework has not helped. It is simply mad that something as overwhelmingly important as a pandemic is not controlled UK-wide from Westminster. At the moment the system actively encourages the devolved governments to do something "a bit different" in the hope of appearing better than England, or simply to justify their existence. This leads to much greater confusion.MaxPB said:
Sweden had a clear and consistent strategy and goal from the beginning. All of their policies have been along the lines of that strategy, people understand the rules and why they exist.CorrectHorseBattery said:The guy behind Sweden's strategy has advised the PM Sweden is currently tightening its restrictions.
And as I keep saying, if the UK followed the restrictions we wouldn't have problems but we don't.
Sweden didn't have these issues.
If you asked 100 people across the country what rules they currently live under and why those rules were in place and what the government's intentions are other than "reduce cases tomorrow" how many would be able to answer it. In Sweden the majority can confidently answer all of those.
Sturgeon is terrible for this. Announcing new controls before London does, simply to fuck with London. Good for the Nats, bad for Scots and Brits.
Sweden has one unified government policy helmed from Stockholm, applied across the nation.
For this chaos, we can blame Blair's grossly inept, self-serving Devolution Settlement.
The rest of the blame must fall, however, on the politicians and scientists at the top of the London Establishment2 -
Well exactly.MaxPB said:
Sweden had a clear and consistent strategy and goal from the beginning. All of their policies have been along the lines of that strategy, people understand the rules and why they exist.CorrectHorseBattery said:The guy behind Sweden's strategy has advised the PM Sweden is currently tightening its restrictions.
And as I keep saying, if the UK followed the restrictions we wouldn't have problems but we don't.
Sweden didn't have these issues.
If you asked 100 people across the country what rules they currently live under and why those rules were in place and what the government's intentions are other than "reduce cases tomorrow" how many would be able to answer it. In Sweden the majority can confidently answer all of those.
If we'd gone for rule of six outdoors from the day we came out of lockdown, that would have been easy to understand and we'd have better compliance.0 -
Sweden recognised that a balance has to be found between the direct effects of the virus and the indirect effects of a lockdown.1
-
If only Sturgeon had followed the clear, consistent example of Westminster. Or you.LadyG said:
TBF the UK's insane Devolution framework has not helped. It is simply mad that something as overwhelmingly important as a pandemic is not controlled UK-wide from Westminster. At the moment the system actively encourages the devolved governments to do something "a bit different" in the hope of appearing better than England, or simply to justify their existence. This leads to much greater confusion.MaxPB said:
Sweden had a clear and consistent strategy and goal from the beginning. All of their policies have been along the lines of that strategy, people understand the rules and why they exist.CorrectHorseBattery said:The guy behind Sweden's strategy has advised the PM Sweden is currently tightening its restrictions.
And as I keep saying, if the UK followed the restrictions we wouldn't have problems but we don't.
Sweden didn't have these issues.
If you asked 100 people across the country what rules they currently live under and why those rules were in place and what the government's intentions are other than "reduce cases tomorrow" how many would be able to answer it. In Sweden the majority can confidently answer all of those.
Sturgeon is terrible for this. Announcing new controls before London does, simply to fuck with London. Good for the Nats, bad for Scots and Brits.
Sweden has one unified government policy helmed from Stockholm, applied across the nation.
For this chaos, we can blame Blair's grossly inept, self-serving Devolution Settlement.
The rest of the blame must fall, however, on the politicians and scientists at the top of the London Establishment3
