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With three months to go opposition to Brexit reaches its highest level yet – politicalbetting.com
With three months to go opposition to Brexit reaches its highest level yet – politicalbetting.com
YouGov's Brexit tracker has those thinking Brexit wrong is at highest level since the referendum pic.twitter.com/7IS1kfhjPt
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I'm seriously wondering how this all ends and if the government will ever decide that life goes on if the vaccines prove ineffective. I don't think Boris has it within him to order everyone go back to normal and live with the consequences of it. To me that means life in the UK is going to be shit for years and shows how dependent we are on a vaccine.
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1310657045230751744?s=20
They wont recover before 2024.
Biden 49
Trump 40
I understand fully the complaints about the spectacle of the media calling for "simple guidance" and then looking for elaborate loopholes when this guidance (eg. rule of six) is produced. But increasingly the latest laws are being backed up by legislation for significant fines and penalties. And yet nobody really knows what they can and can't do. And this isn't people inventing slightly silly scenarios.
And also, communication outside your household is actually important. It is many people's source for what is really going on in the world and (especially) the local area. If all such communication is now effectively being curtailed, what is people's source of information?
The majority of the public have become risk averse
Also, what makes anyone think that Cummings gives a d*mn?
https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/wi-pres-0920/
https://twitter.com/shstepanyan/status/1310685738963525645?s=21
I know it's not the same but you've got friends on this website who are hear even to listen, sometimes that helps me get through the darker times.
Hope you're both okay soon, sending you both my very best wishes.
Don't know what anyone else thought?
But these can't go on or be repeated indefinitely - it's creating a vicious circle, delaying the inevitable and making the crash much worse when it finally comes.
We had the same in our family with a nephew. The isolation does not help and, yes, lockdown is not a cost-free option. Your relative and mine are victims of Covid as well, as are those who loved and mourn and miss them.
I was sorry to read the comments about your relative as well.
In fact if I take it a step further I bet there is a significant percentage of the population out there who would, even when the government tells everyone no household mixing over Christmas, still happily back that rule whilst breaching it themselves yet bitching about the fact the neighbours had folk round.
As I said on the prior thread, I am now personally - like you - seeing serious impacts from lockdown, including mental health issues, in people very close to me. People less close to me - but still friends - are dying.
It is SHIT
It is so easy to find others who love and care for you, you just need to look for them. They'll be there for you, I promise.
Although much like High Peak in 2017 I'll believe that when I see it.
I wonder when the UK will finally be at home for Mr Reality to call?
I think i often see you arguing with "Covid sceptics", but presumably from above to are a "legislation sceptic" yourself. Or is it just you complaining about misrepresentation of eg. Swedish approach that i come across?
This pandemic is shit in many, many ways.
My worry is that the cure is worse than the disease. COVID is only part of what drove him to suicide, I think the ill thought out, confusing and inconsistent policies have played a big role in it. It is creating so much uncertainty for everyone in the country not knowing when or how they will be able to see family and friends, I'm sure the thought of another six months of restrictions would have been a lot to bear for him and so many others in the country.
At every step of this crisis the government has acted with inconsistency and without thought for those who aren't fortunate to live in loving family units or large houses with big gardens. I'm honestly ashamed to have been a member of the party, knowing now how little thought they have given the less fortunate in a time of such great need.
'If I get a cold I will be OK, if I catch covid I will die
Heartbreaking that a 6 year old should make such a comment
It feels like a world gone mad.
But for them, there's no point in fighting what will happen (quite likely no deal on Jan 1st). What will be will be. And they know it will be bad.
Makes me reflect on the fact that it's relatively easy for me to support the restrictions, with plenty of space, living in the country, no work or financial worries... It's very much worse for so many people across the country.
No household mixing isn't.
The danger I see for the Gov't is that they ban all household mixing because they want to stop larger gatherings when the six rule would suffice
BUT the huge advantage is that they looked ahead: they envisaged a "marathon, not a sprint", they knew there probably wouldn't be a vaccine for a long time (if ever) so they had to bring in regulations that were clear, and precise, and coherent, and which could be followed by the whole nation for a long time, without destroying the economy.
So far, it seems to me, they have been entirely vindicated, Yes, they have lost lives (more than their neighbours) but they are not wobbling all over the place, plunging businesses into peril and sending poor lonely people to the edge.
I literally have no idea what the rules are now in London. Rule of six? Bubbles? What? And soon there will be lockdown 2 with more complexity??
It is a monumental fuck up, and the cure is, as you say, worse than the affliction.
My worry is that fundamentally they don't get it; they have been duped by their own propaganda.
Now it appears that they have no idea and are imposing piecemeal requirements which are not thought through, and do not convey any plan of how to get us out of this.
Outside of Holbrook, AZ (a small town in the middle of nowhere), you couldn't tell the difference between the places with government mandated restrictions, and without.
Which tells you an important thing: behaviour is changed irrespective of government diktat.
Indeed, the hotels we stayed at in Arizona had more restrictions than the ones in California - so no room service, for example. (The reason being, apparently, that if the government mandates a behaviour, and you follow it, you're OK. But if they don't, and lots of people get sick, and you *could* have foreseen an issue, you will get sued. Especially by your staff.)
To go back to the first point though. Behaviour is changes by the virus, irrespective of what the government says. Shops insist on face coverings, irrespective of government policy. Restaraunt staff wear masks. There is no bar service. (Or, in Santa Fe, you have an orderly, distanced queue to get served at the bar, before heading off to the roof terrace to drink. Which worked, by the way, *really* well.)
This is, of course, why there is so little difference in outcomes between a Sweden and a France, or between an Arizona and a California.
But it also tells you that you might as well limit restrictions to the most dangerous of activities (karaoke, for example), plus requirements for mask wearing on public transport.
Because most people will still social distance and most stores and restaurants will impose restrictions.
This is the definition of a huge, unprecedented event. None of us has lived through the like.
Urgency, consistency and clarity would have been good for a start.
Having said that, the UK let things get so out of hand in March that hard lockdown was inevitable then- a thousand or so deaths a day wasn't a goer. Please let us not make that mistake again.
Conclusion- fantasies about Swedish models are not a reliable way to run one's life.
Everything seems to change from one day to the next. Clear and consistent guidelines as well as why they are needed would do a lot to help. Taking into account those who live in 300 square foot studio flats without outdoor space or the ability to have people over would also help.
As I said yesterday, moving to Switzerland has never been a serious consideration for us, now it seems inevitable.
And as I keep saying, if the UK followed the restrictions we wouldn't have problems but we don't.
Sweden didn't have these issues.
It really in some ways doesn't matter what the plan is (i'm exaggerating). But as long as it is explained and people largely understand what it is trying to achieve (even if they disagree) then you've won half the battle.
On the point above, it's simultaneously true that most people are pro-lockdown and a significant minority are absolutely not up for it. So you get isolated scenes of wild overcrowding at the same time as you get polls showing people wanting tougher measures. I don't think there's a lot of hypocrisy out there, just different people.
What annoys *everyone*, though, is unclear rules. Eat out to help out and rule of 6 both work (in opposite directions) as they're easy to follow. Complicated stuff about numbers of households and different rules for pubs and gardens and living rooms don't get the same support because people can't get their heads round them and think that they keep changing - so then compliance does break down.
We knew none of that in March. Indeed we still don't have a complete handle on all those issues.
Indeed you could argue treating it like flu was part of the problem. In initial modelling and public behaviour.
Goodnight.
If you asked 100 people across the country what rules they currently live under and why those rules were in place and what the government's intentions are other than "reduce cases tomorrow" how many would be able to answer it. In Sweden the majority can confidently answer all of those.
Sturgeon is terrible for this. Announcing new controls before London does, simply to fuck with London. Good for the Nats, bad for Scots and Brits.
Sweden has one unified government policy helmed from Stockholm, applied across the nation.
For this chaos, we can blame Blair's grossly inept, self-serving Devolution Settlement.
The rest of the blame must fall, however, on the politicians and scientists at the top of the London Establishment
If we'd gone for rule of six outdoors from the day we came out of lockdown, that would have been easy to understand and we'd have better compliance.