WH2020: The courts put of a halt on US Postal Service changes that could have impacted on the outcom
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WH2020: The courts put of a halt on US Postal Service changes that could have impacted on the outcome – politicalbetting.com
This could have a big impact on WH2020. Federal judge issues temporary injunction against USPS operational changes amid concerns about mail slowdowns – The Washington Post https://t.co/t9Nl6sKLqZ
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E pluribus unum, purely so the comments work properly.-1
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FPT
https://twitter.com/FT/status/1306692499327590402
Leading scientists advising the UK government have proposed a two-week national lockdown in October to try to tackle the rising number of coronavirus cases.
Experts on the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) and the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling (Spi-m) have suggested a national lockdown that could coincide with the October school half-term.
The government is keen to avoid the reclosure of schools, having shut them during the national lockdown in March and only fully reopening them this autumn.
That helps to explain why the government’s scientific advisers have looked at how a two-week national lockdown might coincide with the October half- term as part of efforts to bring Covid-19 under control.
“As schools will be closed for one week at half-term, adding an extra week to that will have limited impact on education,” said one scientist who is a member of Sage, confirming the body had considered the case for a national lockdown in October.
Another scientist who is a member of Spi-m said the body had also looked at a national lockdown that could take place next month.
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Fraser Nelson: Anchorless Boris is allowing Britain to drift towards another lockdown: The Government lacks a strategy for dealing with the virus, and the blame game has already started
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/17/anchorless-boris-allowing-britain-drift-towards-another-lockdown/1 -
On topic, Trump's an arse who will cheat, lie, and steal to win an election.1
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Lockdown, lockdown harder...a proper christmas film.TheScreamingEagles said:World beating!
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/13066992422417490010 -
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.5 -
Lockdown 2: Mass UnemploymentFrancisUrquhart said:
Lockdown, lockdown harder...a proper christmas film.TheScreamingEagles said:World beating!
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1306699242241749001
Lockdown 3: Total Economic Collapse
Lockdown 4: Trap and Eat your Neighbour's Cat to Survive
Lockdown 5: Trap and Eat your Neighbour to Survive
Lockdown 6: Beyond Thunderdome5 -
Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdpwn, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.0 -
Which one do we find Boris wandering around Tower Hamlets with a racist message on a sandwich board?Black_Rook said:
Lockdown 2: Mass UnemploymentFrancisUrquhart said:
Lockdown, lockdown harder...a proper christmas film.TheScreamingEagles said:World beating!
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1306699242241749001
Lockdown 3: Total Economic Collapse
Lockdown 4: Trap and Eat your Neighbour's Cat to Survive
Lockdown 5: Trap and Eat your Neighbour to Survive
Lockdown 6: Beyond Thunderdome0 -
Here's an interesting piece: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/more-and-more-americans-arent-religious-why-are-democrats-ignoring-these-voters/0
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One thing Sweden has done is keep their rules relatively consistent. An England centred post follows
The differing local lockdown rules, exception for grouse shooting, starting getting 1,000 people back to sporting events at the same time as reducing social numbers to six, probable reintroduction of under 12s into the six as a u-turn at some point. The palpable shock that kids pick up bugs when they head back to school and worried parents might want a test.
It's all headless and directionless, and I say that as someone broadly in favour of restrictions...1 -
And Boris will make sure he is first on the phone to the White House if Trump is re elected, if Biden wins however Boris may find himself put on hold for sometime.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, Trump's an arse who will cheat, lie, and steal to win an election.
Trump is a politician of Nixon like ruthlessness, whether what he is doing is illegal however is for the courts to decide0 -
This virus response is going to end Johnson's premiership at this rate. I am beginning to doubt he will make it to Easter now.Black_Rook said:
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.0 -
The inconsistencies are just bonkers and definitely not following the science...indoor gym classes fine, outdoor ones with more than 6, computer says no.Pulpstar said:One thing Sweden has done is keep their rules relatively consistent. An England centred post follows
The differing local lockdown rules, exception for grouse shooting, starting getting 1,000 people back to sporting events at the same time as reducing social numbers to six, probable reintroduction of under 12s into the six as a u-turn at some point. The palpable shock that kids pick up bugs when they head back to school and worried parents might want a test.
It's all headless and directionless, and I say that as someone broadly in favour of restrictions...0 -
Given our record with Spain-linked infections of about two weeks until our major crisis last time, and the number of serious cases now in Spain compared to anywhere else in Europe, I personally think they should be stopping flights to and from Spain before making any of these other preparations for two weeks' time.Black_Rook said:
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.0 -
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The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.3 -
Tegnell says Swedes are running a marathon. Wants rules that people can live with for a long time potentially.FrancisUrquhart said:
The inconsistencies are just bonkers and definitely not following the science...indoor gym classes fine, outdoor ones with more than 6, computer says no.Pulpstar said:One thing Sweden has done is keep their rules relatively consistent. An England centred post follows
The differing local lockdown rules, exception for grouse shooting, starting getting 1,000 people back to sporting events at the same time as reducing social numbers to six, probable reintroduction of under 12s into the six as a u-turn at some point. The palpable shock that kids pick up bugs when they head back to school and worried parents might want a test.
It's all headless and directionless, and I say that as someone broadly in favour of restrictions...
Struggling once again to see why MPs aren't demanding an urgent debate on the strategy of our response.0 -
Considering that there are a large number of reports that hospitals are largely empty (plus the unused nightingales) - why are we emptying hospitals? Surely there is enough of the NHS sitting on its backside protecting itself to take up the slack.Black_Rook said:
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.
If the NHS does not step forward in a pandemic then what the hell is it for?0 -
Everything Dido touches turns to shit0
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As i have said loads of time, the go and have a foreign summer holiday message...madness.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.1 -
She'll be promoted to deal with the post-Brexit customs system.rottenborough said:Dido gone by end of the weekend?
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The useless wankers should never have started up foreign holidays again in the first place.WhisperingOracle said:
Given our record with Spain-linked infections of about two weeks until our major crisis last time, and the number of serious cases now in Spain compared to anywhere else in Europe, I personally think they should be stopping flights to and from Spain before any of those other preparations.Black_Rook said:
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.3 -
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Promotion to Deputy Prime Minister seems more likely, the way this administration works. Or doesn't.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1306703146459201537
Dido gone by end of the weekend?0 -
The speed these lockdowns are coming and clear national lockdown is on the cards, the data must be looking terrible.1
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This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected2
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He is by far the worst PM of my lifetime.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.4 -
The obsession of getting schools reopened fully is the undoing of all the administrations on this Isle.1
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They wont be by next summer. They will be a mile behind Starmer.CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
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Sounds like Leeds tomorrow.FrancisUrquhart said:The speed these lockdowns are coming and clear national lockdown is on the cards, the data must be looking terrible.
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Who are the 3%? Did they poll Cummings's relatives in Durham or something?CorrectHorseBattery said:2 -
And yet they are and they will beCorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
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On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
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I guess the panic buying of loo rolls will start in the next day or two then.0
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I think we'll know by Christmas, or quite possibly sooner. The situation is recoverable if the local lockdowns manage to prevent things escalating completely out of control, and if one of the vaccine projects rides to the rescue in time to save families from having to leave Granny and Grandad to rot at home alone all over the festive season.rottenborough said:
This virus response is going to end Johnson's premiership at this rate. I am beginning to doubt he will make it to Easter now.Black_Rook said:
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.
If there's a second nationwide lockdown next month, as per the report that @TSE quoted, then there'll likely be a third one at Christmas and a fourth in February, along with massive attendant economic devastation (number three should be enough to kill off much of physical retail and most of the pubs and restaurants.) The country will then want rid of Johnson, and so will the Tory Party. The only question then is whether he uses the ill health excuse to go of his own accord, or has to be pushed.0 -
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
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@rottenborough what's the bet? 10 points behind?0
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I really liked White Flag.CorrectHorseBattery said:Everything Dido touches turns to shit
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Sounds about right.Black_Rook said:
I think we'll know by Christmas, or quite possibly sooner. The situation is recoverable if the local lockdowns manage to prevent things escalating completely out of control, and if one of the vaccine projects rides to the rescue in time to save families from having to leave Granny and Grandad to rot at home alone all over the festive season.rottenborough said:
This virus response is going to end Johnson's premiership at this rate. I am beginning to doubt he will make it to Easter now.Black_Rook said:
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.
If there's a second nationwide lockdown next month, as per the report that @TSE quoted, then there'll likely be a third one at Christmas and a fourth in February, along with massive attendant economic devastation (number three should be enough to kill off much of physical retail and most of the pubs and restaurants.) The country will then want rid of Johnson, and so will the Tory Party. The only question then is whether he uses the ill health excuse to go of his own accord, or has to be pushed.
Although I expect there will be mass disobedience of the lockdown rules at xmas. People will not leave granny alone over the festive season and their neighbours on the phone to plod can go fuck themselves.
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Bought mine two weeks ago; could see this latest shambles coming.rottenborough said:I guess the panic buying of loo rolls will start in the next day or two then.
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One thing that's puzzling about Trumpsky's attack on postal voting and the United States Postal Service is that it
1) the first was NEVER likely to work (unless you could get lots of judges all drunk & keep them that way); and
2) the folks most sensitive to Trumpsky screwing up USPS are
a) seniors; and
b) rural residents
Which is why RNC and most sane (or less insane) GOPers are a best dubious.0 -
FPT:AlwaysSinging said:
I think you're being pessimistic here. The Oxford trial was stopped only for a week, and it's important to understand that this only means that they stopped dosing -- the already-dosed participants were still walking around, some of them (hopefully in the placebo group) catching COVID, and thus still building efficacy data.Black_Rook said:
I've no idea about Pfizer. We do, of course, know all about the latest setback to the Oxford project, where everything stopped because one person involved in the trial got sick. Now, I understand why they stopped, and the lengthy faff that must necessarily follow, but delays like this are why it typically takes about ten years to develop a new vaccine for anything, and why there is no particular reason to imagine that the process won't take that long in this instance. And there's no guarantee that any of these vaccines will ultimately do very much good at all.BluestBlue said:
Aren't we due to have the reports from Pfizer by the end of next month, and (around that time) Oxford too? That should give us a fairly reliable indication of whether there's any hope. I'm pessimistic about many other things in the world, but not the vaccines.Black_Rook said:
You'll forgive me if the notion of waiting for deliverance by miracle doesn't instill me with unconfined joy. There's no reason to suppose that this agony won't go on for years and years and years.BluestBlue said:
Remember when the androids were going to wake up on polling day and do what they'd always done before? Occasionally good things happen - if only by random chance!Black_Rook said:
The vaccine is a complete mirage. It matters not how desperately we crawl towards the damned thing, it's always shimmering on the horizon, always exactly the same distance away, always non-existent. The situation is hopeless.moonshine said:Don’t worry gang, as I’ve said before the medical cavalry is just over the hill. Vaccine coming fast down the tracks. If it wasn’t then there would be no point in any of these measures, you’d just let it play out.
I know the researchers have never had so much incentive as they do now (if someone comes up with a silver bullet then they deserve to be handed the Nobel Prize for Medicine unopposed and hosed down with billions and billions of dollars just for extracting us from this endless shitty purgatory,) but the fact remains that no vaccine has ever been developed for any coronavirus, if my recollection is right. Will one magically appear in the timescale needed to prevent, at the very least, our reduction to a psychologically traumatized train wreck of a nation inhabited largely by penniless alcoholics? Colour me sceptical.
Pfizer and Moderna have apparently released their entire trial designs, including the normally-confidential conditions under which the data monitoring board will stop the trial. I don't have time to find and read them right now but going on secondary sources: interim readouts for Moderna will be at 53, 106, and 151 cases, and they do some simple stats to show how much efficacy would be needed at each point. They are expecting 53 cases in November. Pfizer seem very confident that their interim readout at 32 cases will be October, but they would need amazing efficacy to see enough power at that stage. Although Oxford's trial started earlier, they seem rather slower in dosing participants, and I don't think their interim readout stages are public.
But it all points to November-ish, if at least one of these vaccines works. October if we get seriously lucky, December if somewhat unlucky. It has looked that way, to my back-of-envelope scribbles, since June. Of course licensing and roll-out will take time (and perhaps manufacture, depending on which vaccine it is and where we land in the queue) but I think we'll all feel a lot better knowing that one is coming.
--AS0 -
I'm not putting money on this one at the moment - got too much tied up with the US election.CorrectHorseBattery said:@rottenborough what's the bet? 10 points behind?
Maybe revisit after November.0 -
Possibly. I restocked one of my Brexit boxes a few days back but I was going to leave bog roll and other essentials until later in the Autumn...rottenborough said:I guess the panic buying of loo rolls will start in the next day or two then.
Might move the bulk bog paper purchasing forward to tomorrow.0 -
What he does understand is or are aspects of who we are and he plays to those characteristics really well. The desire to have fun, to be "free", that strain of positive individualism that values life and eschews negativity and "doom and gloom".rottenborough said:
He is by far the worst PM of my lifetime.
My recollection of lockdown in East London was that it started to fall apart after two weeks - at Easter. The capriciously good weather was too much - people wanted to be out, to enjoy themselves, to be "free".
There's a deep-rooted desire for the certainties of what we had and a reluctance to face the challenges of a different and uncertain future. People will always be conservative - to run back to what they knew and understood.0 -
Isn't the Sun afraid the Teletubies might sue for defamation?rottenborough said:0 -
75% of non religious voters are already voting for Biden anyway according to that article but they are still less than the 94% of black Protestant voters who are backing him and the median American voter is still religious, so it is low reward and high riskrcs1000 said:0 -
I doubt it - that's the Star front page.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Isn't the Sun afraid the Teletubies might sue for defamation?rottenborough said:0 -
Do you not see sustaining Johnson's government unless it gets its act together is sub optimal for the nation? The Conservative Party aren't a 'til I die football club, although one of the joys of being a fan of a football club is moaning about them when they are dire.BluestBlue said:
And yet they are and they will beCorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
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Oh, I don't know about that. Keir Starmer might go mad and order the Royal Navy to level Bristol with a Trident missile strike?rottenborough said:
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
Nah, you're probably right. Pray God our continual record of replacing one useless Prime Minister with an even worse one finally ends after Johnson.0 -
A 2 week lockdown seems neither here nor there. How much time would it actually buy you? With the whole winter still in front of you?0
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A political story has truly cut through when it makes the front of the Star.rottenborough said:
The paper for those who don't do politics.0 -
Two becomes four becomes eight, but it is less of a bitter pill to swallow than a straight-up eight week lockdown.solarflare said:A 2 week lockdown seems neither here nor there. How much time would it actually buy you? With the whole winter still in front of you?
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Unlikely, if Keir Starmer does become PM he will be the UK version of Francois Hollande in my view, an equally dull soft socialist who narrowly won because they were relatively inoffensive and voters were fed up of Boris as French voters were fed up of Sarkozy not out of much enthusiasm for him.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I don't know about that. Keir Starmer might go mad and order the Royal Navy to level Bristol with a Trident missile strike?rottenborough said:
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
Nah, you're probably right. Pray God our continual record of replacing one useless Prime Minister with an even worse one finally ends after Johnson.
Plus Thatcher and Cameron, arguably Blair were certainly better than the PMs they replaced0 -
Same old s***e if you think about it.Benpointer said:
I doubt it - that's the Star front page.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Isn't the Sun afraid the Teletubies might sue for defamation?rottenborough said:0 -
Eat out to Help Out, wildly popular at the time and hailed as a roaring success, is proving less inspired in hindsight.FrancisUrquhart said:
As i have said loads of time, the go and have a foreign summer holiday message...madness.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.
Like picking up the ball on halfway slalomming past 4 and curling it into your own net.1 -
Weakest on paper.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
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Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
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A new lockdown is politically impossible.
The unwinding of restrictions, and in particular the failure to deal with Brits heading off holiday to CV19 hotpots followed almost immediately by school reopenings, pretty much guaranteed a new wave of cases.
Track and trace, due to testing deficiencies, is now also essentially dead.
So, we are going to almost certainly follow the Swedish example now.
This will, I'm afraid, result in very little changing. I can make this forecast because I've just come from Arizona, where pretty much all restrictions were removed about three months ago. And they went from closed by statute to open to closed by behaviour. It's gone from a de jure to a de facto lockdown.
People will still choose to avoid public transport. People will work from home. Shops will insist on mask wearing (because, it turns out more people shop with you if you insist on masks).
It will be good for bars and restaurants. However, if people don't feel safe, they don't go out. Whether in Sweden or Arizona or Vegas (all of whom have removed most of their restrictions), restaurant dining numbers are still dramatically down year-over-year. Indeed, the OpenTable numbers show most US states doing far, far worse than Germany (numbers actually up year over year) or the UK (flat).
So,1 -
I think having 100s of people rammed in pubs was worse.dixiedean said:
Eat out to Help Out, wildly popular at the time and hailed as a roaring success, is proving less inspired in hindsight.FrancisUrquhart said:
As i have said loads of time, the go and have a foreign summer holiday message...madness.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.
Like picking up the ball on halfway slalomming past 4 and curling it into your own net.0 -
Question Time back on BBC1 now0
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Not just the UKJonathan said:Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/17/covid-in-europe-who-warns-of-alarming-spread-across-continent?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other1 -
My remark about every Prime Minister being worse than the one before is a bit lazy, granted - it actually comes from something I half-remember a random voter saying on a news vox pop or one of these radio phone-in shows, which I've always found mildly amusing.HYUFD said:
Unlikely, if Keir Starmer does become PM he will be the UK version of Francois Hollande in my view, an equally dull soft socialist who won because they were relatively inoffensive and voters were fed up of Boris as French voters were fed up of Sarkozy not out of much enthusiasm for him.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I don't know about that. Keir Starmer might go mad and order the Royal Navy to level Bristol with a Trident missile strike?rottenborough said:
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
Nah, you're probably right. Pray God our continual record of replacing one useless Prime Minister with an even worse one finally ends after Johnson.
Plus Thatcher and Cameron, arguably Blair were certainly better than the PMs they replaced
Right now I'd settle for an even halfway competent social democrat (regardless of whether or not said person was dull as ditchwater) over a negligent, directionless nitwit every day of the week.0 -
Oh fucking hell, haven't we all suffered enough already?HYUFD said:Question Time on BBC1 now
12 -
The tradeoff now is what it always has been.Jonathan said:Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
Saving the lives of the old and the infirm, vs saving the economy.
The government has chosen the former, at enormous cost, because the latter is too unpalatable to contemplate.
The trouble is the young and the healthy have chosen to carry on with life. And short of welding them into their homes, a second lockdown is likely to be as effective as a Barnard Castle eye test.0 -
I never watch itHYUFD said:Question Time on BBC1 now
1 -
Isn’t that entirely contingent on deaths remaining low. If we - god forbid - get to a point where people are dying in hospital corridors, we will lock down.rcs1000 said:A new lockdown is politically impossible.
The unwinding of restrictions, and in particular the failure to deal with Brits heading off holiday to CV19 hotpots followed almost immediately by school reopenings, pretty much guaranteed a new wave of cases.
Track and trace, due to testing deficiencies, is now also essentially dead.
So, we are going to almost certainly follow the Swedish example now.
This will, I'm afraid, result in very little changing. I can make this forecast because I've just come from Arizona, where pretty much all restrictions were removed about three months ago. And they went from closed by statute to open to closed by behaviour. It's gone from a de jure to a de facto lockdown.
People will still choose to avoid public transport. People will work from home. Shops will insist on mask wearing (because, it turns out more people shop with you if you insist on masks).
It will be good for bars and restaurants. However, if people don't feel safe, they don't go out. Whether in Sweden or Arizona or Vegas (all of whom have removed most of their restrictions), restaurant dining numbers are still dramatically down year-over-year. Indeed, the OpenTable numbers show most US states doing far, far worse than Germany (numbers actually up year over year) or the UK (flat).
So,0 -
24 hour rolling Question Time on all channels during lockdown. THEY WOULDN'T DARE, THE BASTARDSBlack_Rook said:
Oh fucking hell, haven't we all suffered enough already?HYUFD said:Question Time on BBC1 now
0 -
As long as you can also settle for the higher taxes you will have to pay tooBlack_Rook said:
My remark about every Prime Minister being worse than the one before is a bit lazy, granted - it actually comes from something I half-remember a random voter saying on a news vox pop or one of these radio phone-in shows, which I've always found mildly amusing.HYUFD said:
Unlikely, if Keir Starmer does become PM he will be the UK version of Francois Hollande in my view, an equally dull soft socialist who won because they were relatively inoffensive and voters were fed up of Boris as French voters were fed up of Sarkozy not out of much enthusiasm for him.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I don't know about that. Keir Starmer might go mad and order the Royal Navy to level Bristol with a Trident missile strike?rottenborough said:
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
Nah, you're probably right. Pray God our continual record of replacing one useless Prime Minister with an even worse one finally ends after Johnson.
Plus Thatcher and Cameron, arguably Blair were certainly better than the PMs they replaced
Right now I'd settle for an even halfway competent social democrat (regardless of whether or not said person was dull as ditchwater) over a negligent, directionless nitwit every day of the week.0 -
Weren't some on here suggesting that a relative non story about a SPAD on a bank holiday weekend was the defining political moment of the century?dixiedean said:
A political story has truly cut through when it makes the front of the Star.rottenborough said:
The paper for those who don't do politics.
Instead, as I thought, we've dealt with it exactly the way we usually do. By making light of it.
0 -
The other thing to take on board is the knock on effect across the UK as many will take there own lockdown measures, especially the vulnerable and elderlydixiedean said:
From the evidence of my eyes in downtown Newcastle on the eve of lockdown.Jonathan said:Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
Yes.
Dead.
At 8 pm.
Worse at 9:30.
It will snowball0 -
At least this time we have had the tip off before the hospitals fill up and the undertakers get busy. That said the vox pop interviewees in the North East on tonight's BBC news were more concerned about not accessing family and the pubs closing early than dying of Covid.Jonathan said:Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
The current crop of lockdowns is far more relaxed than the first proper lockdown. I think we are moving to a Swedish style herd immunity programme, which is what Cummings proposed in the first instance.0 -
Covid is not an old people issue. I’ve friends who got the bug. They are still alive, but still unwell 6 months on.kyf_100 said:
The tradeoff now is what it always has been.Jonathan said:Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
Saving the lives of the old and the infirm, vs saving the economy.
The government has chosen the former, at enormous cost, because the latter is too unpalatable to contemplate.
The trouble is the young and the healthy have chosen to carry on with life. And short of welding them into their homes, a second lockdown is likely to be as effective as a Barnard Castle eye test.2 -
Interestingly some of the panellists are speaking remotely as well as all the questioners so if you are bored you can look at their living roomsBig_G_NorthWales said:
I never watch itHYUFD said:Question Time on BBC1 now
1 -
The principal loci of infection currently appear to be pubs and people making social visits to each others' homes. Some reports have suggested that grassroots sport also played a role in the North East situation. Insofar as I'm aware there's not been that much noise around restaurants.dixiedean said:
Eat out to Help Out, wildly popular at the time and hailed as a roaring success, is proving less inspired in hindsight.FrancisUrquhart said:
As i have said loads of time, the go and have a foreign summer holiday message...madness.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.
Like picking up the ball on halfway slalomming past 4 and curling it into your own net.
Like most of the few things the Government has managed to get right, or at least half-right, the work of Sunak. But he can't repeat his £300bn down the back of the sofa trick twice. If draconian lockdowns are attempted again it will finish the country off.0 -
Just one detail:FrancisUrquhart said:Holidays to Thailand and Singapore are back on as countries are added to UK's 'green list
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8744515/Thailand-Singapore-safe-travel-list-Slovenia-Guadalupe-visitors-face-quarantine.html
Entry to Singapore
Short term visitors from anywhere in the world are not able to enter Singapore.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/singapore/entry-requirements
Entry and transit
At present you are only permitted to enter Thailand if they meet one of the following criteria:
If you are on a diplomatic or consular mission......
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/entry-requirements
Other than that....Yay!
1 -
Conversely, down here in Dorset things are back to something akin to normal. And our numbers are low.dixiedean said:
From the evidence of my eyes in downtown Newcastle on the eve of lockdown.Jonathan said:Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
Yes.
Dead.
At 8 pm.
Worse at 9:30.
What is happening up north to cause so much case growth? How about in London; hows it looking there?0 -
100s were rammed into restaurants round here.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think having 100s of people rammed in pubs was worse.dixiedean said:
Eat out to Help Out, wildly popular at the time and hailed as a roaring success, is proving less inspired in hindsight.FrancisUrquhart said:
As i have said loads of time, the go and have a foreign summer holiday message...madness.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.
Like picking up the ball on halfway slalomming past 4 and curling it into your own net.
Many pubs at least made an effort to distance.
Some eateries made the opposite decision to pack them in.0 -
They would bore me toHYUFD said:
Interestingly some of the panellists are on Zoom as well as all the questioners so if you are bored you can look at their living roomsBig_G_NorthWales said:
I never watch itHYUFD said:Question Time on BBC1 now
0 -
What REALLY worries me, is story about Russians claiming Venus.Benpointer said:
I doubt it - that's the Star front page.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Isn't the Sun afraid the Teletubies might sue for defamation?rottenborough said:
Has HM's Govt take steps to meet this new threat? OR are gonna rely on Trumpsky's Space Farce??0 -
If it was dead at 8pm, did the Zombie Apocalypse start at 9:30pm?dixiedean said:
From the evidence of my eyes in downtown Newcastle on the eve of lockdown.Jonathan said:Tonight it’s hard not to feel on the brink of calamity. Hopefully I am wrong.
Will a second lockdown pull down the economic house of cards?
Yes.
Dead.
At 8 pm.
Worse at 9:30.0 -
No, no, it's OK Jeremy Corbyn lost to a well regarded former Mayor of London.Black_Rook said:
My remark about every Prime Minister being worse than the one before is a bit lazy, granted - it actually comes from something I half-remember a random voter saying on a news vox pop or one of these radio phone-in shows, which I've always found mildly amusing.HYUFD said:
Unlikely, if Keir Starmer does become PM he will be the UK version of Francois Hollande in my view, an equally dull soft socialist who won because they were relatively inoffensive and voters were fed up of Boris as French voters were fed up of Sarkozy not out of much enthusiasm for him.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I don't know about that. Keir Starmer might go mad and order the Royal Navy to level Bristol with a Trident missile strike?rottenborough said:
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
Nah, you're probably right. Pray God our continual record of replacing one useless Prime Minister with an even worse one finally ends after Johnson.
Plus Thatcher and Cameron, arguably Blair were certainly better than the PMs they replaced
Right now I'd settle for an even halfway competent social democrat (regardless of whether or not said person was dull as ditchwater) over a negligent, directionless nitwit every day of the week.0 -
I bought some today. After they run out and since it is now Autumn, I shall use Dock Leavesrottenborough said:I guess the panic buying of loo rolls will start in the next day or two then.
2 -
This week I was told to eliminate our waiting list backlog by January. Totally delusional from the DoH.Beibheirli_C said:
Considering that there are a large number of reports that hospitals are largely empty (plus the unused nightingales) - why are we emptying hospitals? Surely there is enough of the NHS sitting on its backside protecting itself to take up the slack.Black_Rook said:
Quickly, let's shove all the Covid-riddled elderly into the care homes and stop treating cancer patients! Again!CorrectHorseBattery said:
Remind me why we built the Nightingales again?
Totally, irredeemably fucking useless.
If the NHS does not step forward in a pandemic then what the hell is it for?1 -
At what point do the Tories ditch Chamberlain get Churchill and bring Attlee into a GONU.0
-
Same here. It was crazy.dixiedean said:
100s were rammed into restaurants round here.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think having 100s of people rammed in pubs was worse.dixiedean said:
Eat out to Help Out, wildly popular at the time and hailed as a roaring success, is proving less inspired in hindsight.FrancisUrquhart said:
As i have said loads of time, the go and have a foreign summer holiday message...madness.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.
Like picking up the ball on halfway slalomming past 4 and curling it into your own net.
Many pubs at least made an effort to distance.
Some eateries made the opposite decision to pack them in.0 -
I think if Starmer wins it may well be narrowly, maybe as head of a coalition or a PM with a majority of <20. So we will have a paralysed minority or small majority government. And how many successful PMs can you think of without working majorities? In the last sixty years, the only one I can is Wilson in '64.HYUFD said:
Unlikely, if Keir Starmer does become PM he will be the UK version of Francois Hollande in my view, an equally dull soft socialist who narrowly won because they were relatively inoffensive and voters were fed up of Boris as French voters were fed up of Sarkozy not out of much enthusiasm for him.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I don't know about that. Keir Starmer might go mad and order the Royal Navy to level Bristol with a Trident missile strike?rottenborough said:
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.HYUFD said:
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2CorrectHorseBattery said:This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
Nah, you're probably right. Pray God our continual record of replacing one useless Prime Minister with an even worse one finally ends after Johnson.
Plus Thatcher and Cameron, arguably Blair were certainly better than the PMs they replaced
I don't see Starmer as having the ability to take dozens of decisions on the fly, like Blair. I think he'll be more like Brown or Ed Miliband, endlessly delaying. So I can't see him being that great.
But, of course, I could be wrong. And it's five years at least before we'll know.0 -
Interestingly, that very much DIDN'T happen down here in Dorset. Or in Cornwall (when I was briefly there). Or in Somerset when I was there for work a couple of times last month.Foxy said:
Same here. It was crazy.dixiedean said:
100s were rammed into restaurants round here.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think having 100s of people rammed in pubs was worse.dixiedean said:
Eat out to Help Out, wildly popular at the time and hailed as a roaring success, is proving less inspired in hindsight.FrancisUrquhart said:
As i have said loads of time, the go and have a foreign summer holiday message...madness.stodge said:
The problem is you bump up against a populist Government trying be popular all the time.FrancisUrquhart said:Tegnell says not concerned about a second wave in Sweden. Sticking to the regime, rather than lockdown, open up, rinse and repeat.
And that is all they got from him, as was on a train with dodgy wifi.
Boris wants to be an unremittingly cheerful, positive Prime Minister of whom people would say "it was wonderful to be alive when Boris Johnson ran Britain" - they may not think that now.
As such, being relentlessly positive, promising a return to the good times, being the spokesman for the return to normality, "Mr Good News" is what he wants and does well (it's not frankly very difficult). He spent the early summer promising hope, a return to shops, a return to pubs, a return to restaurants, a return to the office, a return to schools, a return to normality, a return to the life we all had back in the good times when we gave him a 80-seat majority.
Those days...
The problem was too many people believed or wanted to believe the virus was gone and we could go back to the life we had without risk. We could restore the night time economy, we could have fun again, we could forget the virus and have back the life we once had.
It wasn't so simple but Boris couldn't be honest - instead, he did what he always does and tells the audience in front of him exactly what he thinks they want to hear.
Like picking up the ball on halfway slalomming past 4 and curling it into your own net.
Many pubs at least made an effort to distance.
Some eateries made the opposite decision to pack them in.0
This discussion has been closed.