Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
This Government does not deserve to be ahead in the polls nor to be re-elected
On today's Redfield poll though the Tories have a 2% lead they would lose their majority and Starmer would have enough seats to form a government with the SNP, PC and the LDs, though it would be the weakest government we have had since WW2
Maybe. But not the shittiest. Johnson's shambles will always hold that prize.
Oh, I don't know about that. Keir Starmer might go mad and order the Royal Navy to level Bristol with a Trident missile strike?
Nah, you're probably right. Pray God our continual record of replacing one useless Prime Minister with an even worse one finally ends after Johnson.
Unlikely, if Keir Starmer does become PM he will be the UK version of Francois Hollande in my view, an equally dull soft socialist who narrowly won because they were relatively inoffensive and voters were fed up of Boris as French voters were fed up of Sarkozy not out of much enthusiasm for him.
Plus Thatcher and Cameron, arguably Blair were certainly better than the PMs they replaced
I think if Starmer wins it may well be narrowly, maybe as head of a coalition or a PM with a majority of <20. So we will have a paralysed minority or small majority government. And how many successful PMs can you think of without working majorities? In the last sixty years, the only one I can is Wilson in '64.
I don't see Starmer as having the ability to take dozens of decisions on the fly, like Blair. I think he'll be more like Brown or Ed Miliband, endlessly delaying. So I can't see him being that great.
But, of course, I could be wrong. And it's five years at least before we'll know.</p>
Cameron managed OK without a majority from 2010 to 2015 though only with a LD coalition, ideologically Starmer is certainly closer to Brown or Ed Miliband than Blair even if he is not as extreme as Corbyn
Cameron had a stonking majority with an LD coalition, which enabled him to govern effectively. The British people for some reason expect their government to be in power as well as in office, which is why they despise minority governments or those with tiny majorities so much.
It is just about possible that Starmer could repeat Cameron's trick with the SNP if he gets say 315 seats and they win 50. But the SNP would want a referendum and if they won it he'd be a small majority administration again, as well as having lost a chunk of the country he was elected to lead.
If he granted the SNP a referendum in that scenario and Scotland voted for independence, never mind being a small minority administration Starmer could conceivably then lose power to the Tories without a general election, indeed on today's poll he could become PM with only 258 seats and 58 SNP seats and 7 LD seats, yet without those SNP seats it would be a Tory government with a solid majority
If he became PM on those numbers I wonder if he'd be able to call a Scottish referendum? The Tories would presumably vote against, so it would all depend on the LDs and NIs. It might only take a couple of Labour rebels to defeat the bill.
And if the Labour rebels defeated the bill the SNP would bring down Starmer's government then anyway and there would be a snap general election which the Tories would hope to win.
Hence it is so important for him that Starmer makes gains in Scotland as well as England in 2024 if he is going to become PM and have a stable government
Do you think the SNP would bring down Starmer's government over that? They'd risk bringing the Conservatives back to power and that would be the end of any talk of a second referendum. Also their supporters probably wouldn't thank them for bringing the party of Margaret Thatcher back to power. They might stick with the devil they know.
The days when Scottish voters were more bothered by whether Labour or Tories are in Downing Street are gone. Long gone.
Evidence?
Certainly the SNP have often said they would back Labour but not the Conservatives, e.g. here, last November:
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
Agree - A Biden Presidency can hardly be worse than what we have now but .........
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
It posits that initial viral dose - the inoculum - is an important factor in disease progression and in particular severity of the disease. Thus those who receive lower initial doses of the virus when they are infected because they are wearing a mask are far more likely to have asymptomatic infections.
Some stunning numbers - an Argentinian cruise ships with infections where face mask-wearing was widespread had 80% asymptomatic cases (as opposed to early cruise ship outbreaks with no mask wearing rate of 20%). - an outbreak in a meat processing plant with universal mask wearing - 95% asymptomatic with the remaining 5% having only mild to moderate symptoms.
That's a really interesting article. I bought mine in January ahead of a research trip to SE Asia. It took a long, long, time for the Brits to catch on to the idea and we're still lagging.
... I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult .
WTF happened to the USA !
Somebody lifted the carpet that had decades of things being swept under it. There has always been a lot of intolerance, either racial, sexual or political but things just kept getting swept under the carpet and ignored.
You might want to cast your mind back to "better" times when the USA was respected as aleading democracy - Senator McCarthy was witch-hunting for commies and ruining jobs, lives and reputations, Rosa Parks was fighting to be treated like a person and there were riots in Stonewall NY by LGBT folk wanting to be treated decently and without prejudice.
Having said that, the UK was not much better - "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" as some establishments used to have written on their entrances.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
... I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult .
WTF happened to the USA !
Somebody lifted the carpet that had decades of things being swept under it. There has always been a lot of intolerance, either racial, sexual or political but things just kept getting swept under the carpet and ignored.
You might want to cast your mind back to "better" times when the USA was respected as aleading democracy - Senator McCarthy was witch-hunting for commies and ruining jobs, lives and reputations, Rosa Parks was fighting to be treated like a person and there were riots in Stonewall NY by LGBT folk wanting to be treated decently and without prejudice.
Having said that, the UK was not much better - "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" as some establishments used to have written on their entrances.
Is there any chance we can get rid of the additional scrollbar in this new format?
I don't have an extra scroll bar with Firefox. First time I've seen the new format as I prefer the logical Vanilla Forum system better .. and it saves reading the thread headers!
I have the standard one on the right of the screen and another one to the immediate right of the comments themselves. Sometimes pressing PageUp / PageDown moves the one you do not expect and then it gets a bit confusing.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
Indeed I am. And of course, since they only socialise with others of the same kidney, their lives probably aren't horrible. At least to them.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
In 1990, David Duke the former Grand Wizard of the KKK got 44% of the vote in the Louisiana senate race. These people have always been around. Ronald Reagan began his 1980 presidential campaign with a speech calling for 'States Rights' in the same Mississippi county 3 civil rights workers were murdered in 1964.
The republican party has been drilling the same well of racial and social animosity for the last 50 odd years.
Agreed. I think it was having a black president that tipped these people into the boiling rage that led to Trump. Even the president himself seems to harbour an incoherent resentment towards his predecessor that defies rational explanation.
... I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult .
WTF happened to the USA !
Somebody lifted the carpet that had decades of things being swept under it. There has always been a lot of intolerance, either racial, sexual or political but things just kept getting swept under the carpet and ignored.
You might want to cast your mind back to "better" times when the USA was respected as aleading democracy - Senator McCarthy was witch-hunting for commies and ruining jobs, lives and reputations, Rosa Parks was fighting to be treated like a person and there were riots in Stonewall NY by LGBT folk wanting to be treated decently and without prejudice.
Having said that, the UK was not much better - "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" as some establishments used to have written on their entrances.
Interesting that the article they link to in that letter directly contradicts it ...
"... In 1940s England, and in London in particular, signs were known to appear in the windows of Bed & Breakfasts and lodging houses reading ‘No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish, or, alternatively, Irish Need Not Apply – known as ‘INNA’ signs. Black workers arriving in Britain in the 1940s also very often faced discrimination and ‘colour bars’ preventing them from entering pubs and clubs. ..."
... I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult .
WTF happened to the USA !
Somebody lifted the carpet that had decades of things being swept under it. There has always been a lot of intolerance, either racial, sexual or political but things just kept getting swept under the carpet and ignored.
You might want to cast your mind back to "better" times when the USA was respected as aleading democracy - Senator McCarthy was witch-hunting for commies and ruining jobs, lives and reputations, Rosa Parks was fighting to be treated like a person and there were riots in Stonewall NY by LGBT folk wanting to be treated decently and without prejudice.
Having said that, the UK was not much better - "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" as some establishments used to have written on their entrances.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
Indeed I am. And of course, since they only socialise with others of the same kidney, their lives probably aren't horrible. At least to them.
Possibly, but having to always aim to stay Top Dog, never show signs of "weakness" (aka compassion or empathy) must take a toll on one's mental health. Suppressing emotions rarely makes you stronger, it just makes you intolerant.
A 2 week lockdown seems neither here nor there. How much time would it actually buy you? With the whole winter still in front of you?
I have a feeling some of these scientists may be great with theories and modelling but haven't a clue about how some of the rest of the country actually works.
A 2 week lockdown would likely be extended but even still, at just 2 weeks the lockdown would be devastating to much of the economy. Some workplaces may be able to just shut down for 2 weeks then pick up as normal but for some other places, like eg restaurants and pubs etc a 2 week shutdown would see not just a loss of trade but seeing their stock having to be thrown out and then replaced with fresh stock a fortnight later.
That would be devastating and financially ruinous, many companies already struggling after the prior lockdown won't be coming back back after 2 weeks.
That's not to say it may not be necessary, but its not a trivial case of just pressing a pause button for 2 weeks, it would be very destructive.
But a lot better if pre-announced, so that people can make plans, stock up their food, DIY equipment, or whatever, than what Bozo will probably do which is to announce it the day before.
... I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult .
WTF happened to the USA !
Somebody lifted the carpet that had decades of things being swept under it. There has always been a lot of intolerance, either racial, sexual or political but things just kept getting swept under the carpet and ignored.
You might want to cast your mind back to "better" times when the USA was respected as aleading democracy - Senator McCarthy was witch-hunting for commies and ruining jobs, lives and reputations, Rosa Parks was fighting to be treated like a person and there were riots in Stonewall NY by LGBT folk wanting to be treated decently and without prejudice.
Having said that, the UK was not much better - "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" as some establishments used to have written on their entrances.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
In 1990, David Duke the former Grand Wizard of the KKK got 44% of the vote in the Louisiana senate race. These people have always been around. Ronald Reagan began his 1980 presidential campaign with a speech calling for 'States Rights' in the same Mississippi county 3 civil rights workers were murdered in 1964.
The republican party has been drilling the same well of racial and social animosity for the last 50 odd years.
Agreed. I think it was having a black president that tipped these people into the boiling rage that led to Trump. Even the president himself seems to harbour an incoherent resentment towards his predecessor that defies rational explanation.
Let us hope that Biden wins and then steps down for health reasons leaving the bigots with a black female president. That should set off a pacemaker alarms....
It posits that initial viral dose - the inoculum - is an important factor in disease progression and in particular severity of the disease. Thus those who receive lower initial doses of the virus when they are infected because they are wearing a mask are far more likely to have asymptomatic infections.
Some stunning numbers - an Argentinian cruise ships with infections where face mask-wearing was widespread had 80% asymptomatic cases (as opposed to early cruise ship outbreaks with no mask wearing rate of 20%). - an outbreak in a meat processing plant with universal mask wearing - 95% asymptomatic with the remaining 5% having only mild to moderate symptoms.
This is surely a big part of the story why the ‘second wave’ of apparent cases isn’t being matched by such a big spike in hospitalisation and deaths. Credit to that British female scientist who advanced the hypothesis that the amount of virus you caught is likely to be very important, back in March.
As I recall there was a debate on PB with some claiming to have relevant knowledge who argued that it made no difference.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
Indeed I am. And of course, since they only socialise with others of the same kidney, their lives probably aren't horrible. At least to them.
Possibly, but having to always aim to stay Top Dog, never show signs of "weakness" (aka compassion or empathy) must take a toll on one's mental health. Suppressing emotions rarely makes you stronger, it just makes you intolerant.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
Because we also elected a self-centred, blond idiot with little grasp of reality? Or some other reason?
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
We rejected Britain's version of Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, twice though.
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
Indeed I am. And of course, since they only socialise with others of the same kidney, their lives probably aren't horrible. At least to them.
Possibly, but having to always aim to stay Top Dog, never show signs of "weakness" (aka compassion or empathy) must take a toll on one's mental health. Suppressing emotions rarely makes you stronger, it just makes you intolerant.
JRM was almost singing from that hymn sheet yesterday in Parliament. I read it as 'we are far too important and superior for the peasantry to complain about our incompetence, indeed we can't be incompetent because we are too important and superior'.
I am no psychologist, but JRM's mental health looks fine to me.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
We rejected Britain's version of Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, twice though.
No, that was Sanders (and, actually, Sanders in a British context wasn’t that radical). Our current PM has many of the personality flaws that are leading him down a similar path, saved so far only by a little more intelligence and world knowledge.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
We rejected Britain's version of Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, twice though.
I recommend a decent optician. One who can enable you you to see the world as it is!
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
Indeed I am. And of course, since they only socialise with others of the same kidney, their lives probably aren't horrible. At least to them.
Possibly, but having to always aim to stay Top Dog, never show signs of "weakness" (aka compassion or empathy) must take a toll on one's mental health. Suppressing emotions rarely makes you stronger, it just makes you intolerant.
So you vote for Trump and his like. Circular?
No, not really. The Democrats were encouraging "weakness". A lot of Americans get really worked up about "socialism" which, to that particular group, seems to mean having a social safety net. "I worked hard for my stuff, why should slackers get help?" sort of attitude.
Now look at Obama putting an improved healthcare system in where "slackers" could get treatment without massive payments on health insurance. Obama also started putting in protections for LGBT people which set off the evangelical lobby.
I can see how it came together for Trump and how it might do so this time too.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
We rejected Britain's version of Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, twice though.
Bonkers!
Corbyn could be likened to any number of dubious political figures. Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Hugo Chavez, Allende and many, many more. The common bond between them all is they have read Das Kapital. Trump, although enjoying links with the former Soviet Union, I suspect has not read Marx. If he could read, Mein Kampf would be the preferred read.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
We rejected Britain's version of Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, twice though.
No, that was Sanders (and, actually, Sanders in a British context wasn’t that radical). Our current PM has many of the personality flaws that are leading him down a similar path, saved so far only by a little more intelligence and world knowledge.
Starmer or 'Red Ed' are probably much closer to Sanders than Corbyn is.
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Re: Dido's comment to the Committee. The Mandy Rice-Davies defence lives on.
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
Indeed I am. And of course, since they only socialise with others of the same kidney, their lives probably aren't horrible. At least to them.
Possibly, but having to always aim to stay Top Dog, never show signs of "weakness" (aka compassion or empathy) must take a toll on one's mental health. Suppressing emotions rarely makes you stronger, it just makes you intolerant.
So you vote for Trump and his like. Circular?
Yes, the reason people are not put off by Trump is that he justifies and validates their own narcisstic individualism. Its why referring to the military as suckers hasn't hurt him.
Selfishness and boorishness are both pretty common, and a substantial share of the public believe that greed is good. Lasciviousness is often not seen as a bad thing by men either, it is just seen as alpha male behaviour.
Is there any chance we can get rid of the additional scrollbar in this new format?
I don't have an extra scroll bar with Firefox. First time I've seen the new format as I prefer the logical Vanilla Forum system better .. and it saves reading the thread headers!
I have the standard one on the right of the screen and another one to the immediate right of the comments themselves. Sometimes pressing PageUp / PageDown moves the one you do not expect and then it gets a bit confusing.
Yes, same for me (using Firefox 80 on Windows 10). It is rather annoying.
Edit: Not meaning to moan, just thought it might be of use for debugging!
He is known for lying though out his career, has a dubious history with women, found fame on the telly, rode into office on the back of a populist wave, has infamous advisers, gives jobs to cronies, has proven divisive in office and has trademark bad hair. 🤷♂️
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
We rejected Britain's version of Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, twice though.
No, that was Sanders (and, actually, Sanders in a British context wasn’t that radical). Our current PM has many of the personality flaws that are leading him down a similar path, saved so far only by a little more intelligence and world knowledge.
Starmer or 'Red Ed' are probably much closer to Sanders than Corbyn is.
Your evidence is compelling, nice that Lady Fugee gets a name check twice. I suspect however, and I can't be arsed, that I could find considerably more comparisons of Johnson and Trump. I will write one myself if you want!
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
We had a really, really good post on the subject from someone yesterday.
And Good Morning everyone.
Good morning.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
Indeed I am. And of course, since they only socialise with others of the same kidney, their lives probably aren't horrible. At least to them.
Possibly, but having to always aim to stay Top Dog, never show signs of "weakness" (aka compassion or empathy) must take a toll on one's mental health. Suppressing emotions rarely makes you stronger, it just makes you intolerant.
JRM was almost singing from that hymn sheet yesterday in Parliament. I read it as 'we are far too important and superior for the peasantry to complain about our incompetence, indeed we can't be incompetent because we are too important and superior'.
I am no psychologist, but JRM's mental health looks fine to me.
I am no psychologist either, but that does not sound like a healthy mental outlook to me.
He is known for lying though out his career, has a dubious history with women, found fame on the telly, rode into office on the back of a populist wave, has infamous advisers, gives jobs to cronies, has proven divisive in office and has trademark bad hair. 🤷♂️
I really do nt know which side of the pond you are referring to here. The only hint is that Johnson did not especially "find fame on the telly".
... I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult .
WTF happened to the USA !
Somebody lifted the carpet that had decades of things being swept under it. There has always been a lot of intolerance, either racial, sexual or political but things just kept getting swept under the carpet and ignored.
You might want to cast your mind back to "better" times when the USA was respected as aleading democracy - Senator McCarthy was witch-hunting for commies and ruining jobs, lives and reputations, Rosa Parks was fighting to be treated like a person and there were riots in Stonewall NY by LGBT folk wanting to be treated decently and without prejudice.
Having said that, the UK was not much better - "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" as some establishments used to have written on their entrances.
It posits that initial viral dose - the inoculum - is an important factor in disease progression and in particular severity of the disease. Thus those who receive lower initial doses of the virus when they are infected because they are wearing a mask are far more likely to have asymptomatic infections.
Some stunning numbers - an Argentinian cruise ships with infections where face mask-wearing was widespread had 80% asymptomatic cases (as opposed to early cruise ship outbreaks with no mask wearing rate of 20%). - an outbreak in a meat processing plant with universal mask wearing - 95% asymptomatic with the remaining 5% having only mild to moderate symptoms.
That's a really interesting article. I bought mine in January ahead of a research trip to SE Asia. It took a long, long, time for the Brits to catch on to the idea and we're still lagging.
Not really surprising as government spent several months telling us they were ineffective/unnecessary for the public.
Is there any polling on Scots living outside Scotland? I wouldn't be sure they are majority anti-independence, especially in the context of Brexit (it's a ticket to an EU passport). I was born in Fife, live in London, and support independence, and would be happy to vote on it.
[Admin] new layout -- the links are a complete mess -- the thread archives seem to have disappeared; the other links really do need cleaning up -- the first four of "Mike Smithson's top blogs" are funslots x 2 and @rcs1000's American insurance start-up x 2 -- there are prominent links to casino sites -- and the links, like the comments, are cut off at the bottom.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
Interesting article, though I'm rather confused by the idea that rapid tests won't help solve capacity issues with testing. Currently half of all testing capacity is being used clinically by the NHS or Care Homes etc - if that capacity could be freed up with rapid testing like this then the existing capacity for the rest of the country would essentially be doubled wouldn't it?
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
So we’re back at “if you don’t want to be locked down don’t get a test (especially if you think you’re infected)”?
Even if Biden wins it’s likely at least 45% of Americans will have voted for his opponent who is the most disgusting and corrupt nominee in living memory . Trump doesn’t give a damn how many Americans die from the virus and is packing people in at rallies with no social distancing or masks. I have very little sympathy for those Trump supporters who are like the Kool Aid Cult . WTF happened to the USA !
Yes, America is going to be in a dark place for a long time yet.
An additional sad thing about the recent run of domestic events is that we are losing justification for pointing any fingers at the US.
We rejected Britain's version of Trump, Jeremy Corbyn, twice though.
No, that was Sanders (and, actually, Sanders in a British context wasn’t that radical). Our current PM has many of the personality flaws that are leading him down a similar path, saved so far only by a little more intelligence and world knowledge.
Starmer or 'Red Ed' are probably much closer to Sanders than Corbyn is.
He is known for lying though out his career, has a dubious history with women, found fame on the telly, rode into office on the back of a populist wave, has infamous advisers, gives jobs to cronies, has proven divisive in office and has trademark bad hair. 🤷♂️
I really do nt know which side of the pond you are referring to here. The only hint is that Johnson did not especially "find fame on the telly".
Boris and Trump both found fame on the telly, even if they were known in some quarters before. Boris was on HIGNFY as panellist and host before he was mayor; previously he may have been known to Telegraph or Spectator readers. Trump was a well-known New York property developer but became famous on The Apprentice.
NYT has a short story on the Pfizer and Moderna trial protocols published yesterday,
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/health/covid-moderna-vaccine.html ... Dr. Eric Topol, a clinical trial expert at Scripps Research in San Diego, gave Moderna “big kudos” for sharing its plan but said that he was disappointed that Moderna intended to include in its data people who had developed relatively mild cases of Covid-19. He said more compelling evidence of the vaccine’s effectiveness would be produced if the company counted only moderate to severe cases.
Moderna’s plan also allows for the possibility of stopping the trial early after a relatively small number of cases, potentially leading to an exaggerated perception of the vaccine’s efficacy and missing safety problems that could turn out to be significant later if the vaccine were given to millions of people, he said.
Dr. Topol was more critical of Pfizer’s plan because it allowed even milder cases than Moderna’s to be counted and provided more opportunities to stop the trial early based on few cases, which he called troubling. “Take the time, the extra weeks,” Dr. Topol said. “No shortcuts. Nobody will regret it. I’ve been doing clinical trials for decades. I don’t know if there’s ever been a more important one than this one. I’d like to see it done right, and not stopped early....
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
IIRC, at the "5 level traffic light" announcement, Boris said we were at level 3½ which rendered it pointless 2 minutes after it was announced.
Since I have heard nothing further I assume we are still at level 3.5
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Are they seriously saying that current demand is 900K tests a day? In a population of 65m with about 3.5k new cases a day? A significant number of that 65m live in areas with almost no Covid at all.
There is a lot of anxiety and panic out there, only some of which is justified. Poor and confused messaging by the government again but they need to make it clear who and where their priorities for testing are and the rest of us with a seasonal cold at exceptionally low risk will just have to wait a bit.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
IIRC, at the "5 level traffic light" announcement, Boris said we were at level 3½ which rendered it pointless 2 minutes after it was announced.
Since I have heard nothing further I assume we are still at level 3.5
He is known for lying though out his career, has a dubious history with women, found fame on the telly, rode into office on the back of a populist wave, has infamous advisers, gives jobs to cronies, has proven divisive in office and has trademark bad hair. 🤷♂️
I really do nt know which side of the pond you are referring to here. The only hint is that Johnson did not especially "find fame on the telly".
Actually, for many who don’t follow politics, he did. Certainly his quiz show appearances did him no harm in terms of recognition.
Just a shame that viewers didn’t seem able to extrapolate from the bumbling fool they saw on HIGNFY to how he might perform in senior office.
Or indeed from a shambolic Foreign Secretary to a shambolic PM.
“ Panic aside, if most immune systems can recognize SARS-CoV-2, it makes no sense for any government to treat or model the virus as a new infection.”
They give a simple and convincing explanation of the low infection fatality rate when infections exceed 20% of the population in terms of preexisting partial immunity.
Interesting article, though I'm rather confused by the idea that rapid tests won't help solve capacity issues with testing. Currently half of all testing capacity is being used clinically by the NHS or Care Homes etc - if that capacity could be freed up with rapid testing like this then the existing capacity for the rest of the country would essentially be doubled wouldn't it?
Each ‘box’ can process fewer than 20 tests a day. So very useful in a hospital for rapid clinical decision making, but useless for community testing.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
So we’re back at “if you don’t want to be locked down don’t get a test (especially if you think you’re infected)”?
tens of thousands can't get a test even if they want/need one.
Is there any polling on Scots living outside Scotland? I wouldn't be sure they are majority anti-independence, especially in the context of Brexit (it's a ticket to an EU passport). I was born in Fife, live in London, and support independence, and would be happy to vote on it.
Fifers....
When I was a solicitor there medical records of a certain vintage contained the acronym "NFF". This turned out to be normal for Fife and was subsequently banned by the NHS.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
If the new levels are to be Red, Yellow and Green doubtless Bozo will start us off at Orange.
He is known for lying though out his career, has a dubious history with women, found fame on the telly, rode into office on the back of a populist wave, has infamous advisers, gives jobs to cronies, has proven divisive in office and has trademark bad hair. 🤷♂️
I really do nt know which side of the pond you are referring to here. The only hint is that Johnson did not especially "find fame on the telly".
Actually, for many who don’t follow politics, he did. Certainly his quiz show appearances did him no harm in terms of recognition.
Just a shame that viewers didn’t seem able to extrapolate from the bumbling fool they saw on HIGNFY to how he might perform in senior office.
Or indeed from a shambolic Foreign Secretary to a shambolic PM.
Of course he had TV appearances, but that defines Johnson's career in the last 20 years much less so than trump on the apprentice. Johnson was just as well known for his journalism and rugby tackling someone in a charity football match.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
If the new levels are to be Red, Yellow and Green doubtless Bozo will start us off at Orange.
We've already seen that a 5 point scale doesn't work - Boris introduced it and then immediately said we were at 3.5
Could we just introduce a 10 point scale and leave things at that - then rate each region as necessary.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
This is the main government page on coronavirus. I can't see any mention of the alert level, or a link to the same.
Is there any polling on Scots living outside Scotland? I wouldn't be sure they are majority anti-independence, especially in the context of Brexit (it's a ticket to an EU passport). I was born in Fife, live in London, and support independence, and would be happy to vote on it.
Fifers....
When I was a solicitor there medical records of a certain vintage contained the acronym "NFF". This turned out to be normal for Fife and was subsequently banned by the NHS.
The bit I don't get is how does anyone think this will help Scotland remain in the UK, the only people in the UK who will be bothering to votes are those that would prefer Scotland to leave.
Interesting article, though I'm rather confused by the idea that rapid tests won't help solve capacity issues with testing. Currently half of all testing capacity is being used clinically by the NHS or Care Homes etc - if that capacity could be freed up with rapid testing like this then the existing capacity for the rest of the country would essentially be doubled wouldn't it?
Each ‘box’ can process fewer than 20 tests a day. So very useful in a hospital for rapid clinical decision making, but useless for community testing.
Hence why I said if used by the NHS or Care Homes etc which are currently taking up 50% of testing capacity.
I would think a first priority for boxes like this would be sending these boxes to Care Homes for instance. They could then test their staff themselves using these kits and get results same day. That would free up a lot of capacity that is currently being taken so the pre-existing capacity used by them could then be freed up for the rest of society.
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Are they seriously saying that current demand is 900K tests a day? In a population of 65m with about 3.5k new cases a day? A significant number of that 65m live in areas with almost no Covid at all.
There is a lot of anxiety and panic out there, only some of which is justified. Poor and confused messaging by the government again but they need to make it clear who and where their priorities for testing are and the rest of us with a seasonal cold at exceptionally low risk will just have to wait a bit.
Indeed. But if, for example, one of those cases is in a class of 30, or a year group of 100, you can easily see how testing demand will explode. If they had managed to set up pooled testing protocols for schools and universities over the summer, that demand could potentially have been cut by an order of magnitude.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
IIRC, at the "5 level traffic light" announcement, Boris said we were at level 3½ which rendered it pointless 2 minutes after it was announced.
Since I have heard nothing further I assume we are still at level 3.5
This is a shame because in some places a similar system has worked well, eg Victoria, Aus. If the authorities make it clear in advance what the levels mean in terms of virus prevelance and the implications for restrictions, the population are more likely to accept the restrictions when they come.
Lengthy piece in today's "Telegraph" by Judith Woods, headlined "Britain needs a statesman - not a larky schoolboy", saying Boris isn't up to dealing with a crisis . The "Telegraph" has been his staunchest ally until now.
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Are they seriously saying that current demand is 900K tests a day? In a population of 65m with about 3.5k new cases a day? A significant number of that 65m live in areas with almost no Covid at all.
There is a lot of anxiety and panic out there, only some of which is justified. Poor and confused messaging by the government again but they need to make it clear who and where their priorities for testing are and the rest of us with a seasonal cold at exceptionally low risk will just have to wait a bit.
The thing is, if you have a cold with a cough you don't know that it's a cold until you've been tested.
He is known for lying though out his career, has a dubious history with women, found fame on the telly, rode into office on the back of a populist wave, has infamous advisers, gives jobs to cronies, has proven divisive in office and has trademark bad hair. 🤷♂️
I really do nt know which side of the pond you are referring to here. The only hint is that Johnson did not especially "find fame on the telly".
Actually, for many who don’t follow politics, he did. Certainly his quiz show appearances did him no harm in terms of recognition.
Just a shame that viewers didn’t seem able to extrapolate from the bumbling fool they saw on HIGNFY to how he might perform in senior office.
Or indeed from a shambolic Foreign Secretary to a shambolic PM.
Of course he had TV appearances, but that defines Johnson's career in the last 20 years much less so than trump on the apprentice. Johnson was just as well known for his journalism and rugby tackling someone in a charity football match.
Both Trump and Boris were well-known, the latter at least to Telegraph readers, which is why they were invited onto telly in the first place, but it is The Apprentice and HIGNFY respectively that made them famous to the wider public.
Is there any polling on Scots living outside Scotland? I wouldn't be sure they are majority anti-independence, especially in the context of Brexit (it's a ticket to an EU passport). I was born in Fife, live in London, and support independence, and would be happy to vote on it.
Fifers....
When I was a solicitor there medical records of a certain vintage contained the acronym "NFF". This turned out to be normal for Fife and was subsequently banned by the NHS.
The bit I don't get is how does anyone think this will help Scotland remain in the UK, the only people in the UK who will be bothering to votes are those that would prefer Scotland to leave.
Who knows? Maybe some ex pats might be worried they might lose their residency rights EU style. But it is irrelevant. If and when this comes again it will again be decided by those who are on the electoral register in Scotland.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
If the new levels are to be Red, Yellow and Green doubtless Bozo will start us off at Orange.
You think Bozo would be happy with a word as common as orange? Gold might be acceptable, otherwise ochre, terracotta or grenadine.
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Are they seriously saying that current demand is 900K tests a day? In a population of 65m with about 3.5k new cases a day? A significant number of that 65m live in areas with almost no Covid at all.
There is a lot of anxiety and panic out there, only some of which is justified. Poor and confused messaging by the government again but they need to make it clear who and where their priorities for testing are and the rest of us with a seasonal cold at exceptionally low risk will just have to wait a bit.
The thing is, if you have a cold with a cough you don't know that it's a cold until you've been tested.
If you have a runny nose or sniffles it's not Covid.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
If the new levels are to be Red, Yellow and Green doubtless Bozo will start us off at Orange.
You think Bozo would be happy with a word as common as orange? Gold might be acceptable, otherwise ochre, terracotta or grenadine.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
This is the main government page on coronavirus. I can't see any mention of the alert level, or a link to the same.
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Are they seriously saying that current demand is 900K tests a day? In a population of 65m with about 3.5k new cases a day? A significant number of that 65m live in areas with almost no Covid at all.
There is a lot of anxiety and panic out there, only some of which is justified. Poor and confused messaging by the government again but they need to make it clear who and where their priorities for testing are and the rest of us with a seasonal cold at exceptionally low risk will just have to wait a bit.
The thing is, if you have a cold with a cough you don't know that it's a cold until you've been tested.
I know, hence the anxiety. But if you live in an area where very few to no cases and if your neighbours haven't been idiots going on foreign holidays you are just not a priority for a test.
As I said the messaging on this has once again been abysmal, offering the moon (almost literally), failing miserably, then trying to bring some sort of rationing in after everyone is pissed off and even more anxious, its a master class in incompetence. Again.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
IIRC, at the "5 level traffic light" announcement, Boris said we were at level 3½ which rendered it pointless 2 minutes after it was announced.
Since I have heard nothing further I assume we are still at level 3.5
This is a shame because in some places a similar system has worked well, eg Victoria, Aus. If the authorities make it clear in advance what the levels mean in terms of virus prevelance and the implications for restrictions, the population are more likely to accept the restrictions when they come.
They have a similar system in Ireland, but their politicians stick to whole numbers rather than lobbing in the odd fraction or two
The big difference is theirs is something more like a "Progress meter" where they have steps marked out, so some areas recently went backwards a step because of a resurgence but, generally speaking, the more you move along the scale, the more restrictions are lifted.
Fantastic piece by Fraser this morning. Drift at the top. Lack of evidence any of these measures works (they claim to have major evidence of local lockdowns working - but wont publish it). No sign of any discussion about the underlying assumptions being used e.g. do the advisors now think there is some evidence of some level of pre-existing immunity. No strategy.
"Without evidence, it’s hard to fix on any Covid strategy. And without a strategy, the Prime Minister will end up anchorless and not in control, the whip hand lying with his scientific advisers. It’s not leadership but a recipe for drift, chaos and confusion – at a time when the country is in dire need of leadership."
Is there any polling on Scots living outside Scotland? I wouldn't be sure they are majority anti-independence, especially in the context of Brexit (it's a ticket to an EU passport). I was born in Fife, live in London, and support independence, and would be happy to vote on it.
Massively anti-independence. Or at least they were prior to 2014.
It was almost comical, amongst my old uni friends I keep in contact with every single one living in England was anti-indy and all bar three living in Scotland were pro-indy.
Lengthy piece in today's "Telegraph" by Judith Woods, headlined "Britain needs a statesman - not a larky schoolboy", saying Boris isn't up to dealing with a crisis . The "Telegraph" has been his staunchest ally until now.
And piece by Fraser Nelson saying Boris is adrift without a strategy.
He is known for lying though out his career, has a dubious history with women, found fame on the telly, rode into office on the back of a populist wave, has infamous advisers, gives jobs to cronies, has proven divisive in office and has trademark bad hair. 🤷♂️
I really do nt know which side of the pond you are referring to here. The only hint is that Johnson did not especially "find fame on the telly".
Actually, for many who don’t follow politics, he did. Certainly his quiz show appearances did him no harm in terms of recognition.
Just a shame that viewers didn’t seem able to extrapolate from the bumbling fool they saw on HIGNFY to how he might perform in senior office.
Or indeed from a shambolic Foreign Secretary to a shambolic PM.
No extrapolation needed. He is still a bumbling fool.
There is something endearing about Matt Hancock. Unlike other members of this government Hancock struggles to lie and spin effectively. He tries his best, but he can’t do it and the truth keeps leaking out.
So would it have been so hard for a senior Minister to explain: That the priority right now is people who are at the highest risk of passing the virus to others. That includes front facing NHS staff, care workers and teachers. 50% of our current capacity is dedicated to them. Our next priority is those areas where the virus is spreading fastest, the hotspots with local lockdowns. 40% of our lab capacity (which is the key) is going to be allocated to them. If you don't fall into either of these categories we will do our best but these priorities are there for good reasons and you may find it difficult to take a test in the short term until capacity is further increased which we are working on.
This really isn't rocket science. It doesn't have to be a shambles.
This plot shows the estimated rate at which the Pillar 1 & 2 testing is finding cases. Pillar 1 & 2 positives divided by the estimated (by ONS) cases for that day.
It also emerged that Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is planning to adopt a national "traffic light" system for putting regions into lockdown, with local action being triggered when infection rates reach a set level.
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
IIRC, at the "5 level traffic light" announcement, Boris said we were at level 3½ which rendered it pointless 2 minutes after it was announced.
Since I have heard nothing further I assume we are still at level 3.5
This is a shame because in some places a similar system has worked well, eg Victoria, Aus. If the authorities make it clear in advance what the levels mean in terms of virus prevelance and the implications for restrictions, the population are more likely to accept the restrictions when they come.
They have a similar system in Ireland, but their politicians stick to whole numbers rather than lobbing in the odd fraction or two
The big difference is theirs is something more like a "Progress meter" where they have steps marked out, so some areas recently went backwards a step because of a resurgence but, generally speaking, the more you move along the scale, the more restrictions are lifted.
The Boris-lovers can retort, "yeah-but, everyone else is doing rubbish too".
The problem as I see it for the UK and England in particular is the Westminster Government have no strategy whatsoever. Changes are made to the Covid rules as a result of political expediency or on a whim.
Is there any polling on Scots living outside Scotland? I wouldn't be sure they are majority anti-independence, especially in the context of Brexit (it's a ticket to an EU passport). I was born in Fife, live in London, and support independence, and would be happy to vote on it.
Fifers....
When I was a solicitor there medical records of a certain vintage contained the acronym "NFF". This turned out to be normal for Fife and was subsequently banned by the NHS.
In S Essex there was NFO..... normal for Ockenden, a small town between Grays and Upminster. Overspill estate. FLK = Funny looking kid was also about.
Interesting article, though I'm rather confused by the idea that rapid tests won't help solve capacity issues with testing. Currently half of all testing capacity is being used clinically by the NHS or Care Homes etc - if that capacity could be freed up with rapid testing like this then the existing capacity for the rest of the country would essentially be doubled wouldn't it?
Each ‘box’ can process fewer than 20 tests a day. So very useful in a hospital for rapid clinical decision making, but useless for community testing.
Questions -
1) What is the cost of the boxes? 2) What is production capacity of the boxes? 3) How much skilled work is required maintaining them - calibration, cleaning etc?
20 a day could be very useful in a care home setting, if the above are manageable - testing all the residents, once a day?
4) With the usual efficiency scaling thing - a bigger machine that can process in parallel, how do the costs/maintenance/production issues scale as the machine gets bigger?
Worth thinking about this - 15,000 such boxes would do all the Pillar 1 & 2 test currently. 50,000 would do a 1,000,000 per day.
This plot shows the estimated rate at which the Pillar 1 & 2 testing is finding cases. Pillar 1 & 2 positives divided by the estimated (by ONS) cases for that day.
The trend line is 14 days.
Does this mean that we have already had our second peak and that we are panicking about the sequelae of that (hospital admissions, etc)?
Guardian: The coronavirus test and trace system was condemned as “barely functional” today as its tsar admitted that demand was up to four times capacity, while 90% of tests were failing to hit the 24-hour turnaround target.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
Are they seriously saying that current demand is 900K tests a day? In a population of 65m with about 3.5k new cases a day? A significant number of that 65m live in areas with almost no Covid at all.
There is a lot of anxiety and panic out there, only some of which is justified. Poor and confused messaging by the government again but they need to make it clear who and where their priorities for testing are and the rest of us with a seasonal cold at exceptionally low risk will just have to wait a bit.
900K would be everyone with cold/flu symptoms. So that would be possible.
Is there any polling on Scots living outside Scotland? I wouldn't be sure they are majority anti-independence, especially in the context of Brexit (it's a ticket to an EU passport). I was born in Fife, live in London, and support independence, and would be happy to vote on it.
Fifers....
When I was a solicitor there medical records of a certain vintage contained the acronym "NFF". This turned out to be normal for Fife and was subsequently banned by the NHS.
In S Essex there was NFO..... normal for Ockenden, a small town between Grays and Upminster. Overspill estate. FLK = Funny looking kid was also about.
So many doctors have a natural charm about them. And some don't.
This plot shows the estimated rate at which the Pillar 1 & 2 testing is finding cases. Pillar 1 & 2 positives divided by the estimated (by ONS) cases for that day.
The trend line is 14 days.
Does this mean that we have already had our second peak and that we are panicking about the sequelae of that (hospital admissions, etc)?
There is something endearing about Matt Hancock. Unlike other members of this government Hancock struggles to lie and spin effectively. He tries his best, but he can’t do it and the truth keeps leaking out.
Hancock is like a hostage from a more innocent age, when Tories aspired to things like competence and sound economic management. He knows that he is surrounded by liars, charlatans, incompetents and head cases but doesn't have the guts to jump ship. I keep expecting him to go postal on the Today Programme, rip off his tie and start shouting that he is mad as hell and isn't going to take it any more, but I am always disappointed.
Comments
Certainly the SNP have often said they would back Labour but not the Conservatives, e.g. here, last November:
https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-snp-would-form-progressive-alliance-to-keep-tories-out-of-power-11857289
"[Sturgeon] said: "If there's a hung parliament SNP MPs will seek to form a progressive alliance to lock the Tories out of government.""
And Good Morning everyone.
You might want to cast your mind back to "better" times when the USA was respected as aleading democracy - Senator McCarthy was witch-hunting for commies and ruining jobs, lives and reputations, Rosa Parks was fighting to be treated like a person and there were riots in Stonewall NY by LGBT folk wanting to be treated decently and without prejudice.
Having said that, the UK was not much better - "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" as some establishments used to have written on their entrances.
If you are referring to the post about how the strong despise weak, it was certainly an eye-opener. What a horrible life they must live.
"... In 1940s England, and in London in particular, signs were known to appear in the windows of Bed & Breakfasts and lodging houses reading ‘No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish, or, alternatively, Irish Need Not Apply – known as ‘INNA’ signs. Black workers arriving in Britain in the 1940s also very often faced discrimination and ‘colour bars’ preventing them from entering pubs and clubs. ..."
The notion of no Irish etc. cards in Windows is not an urban myth. I believe it's documented on film in the 1960s. I can't recall where though.
This is surely a big part of the story why the ‘second wave’ of apparent cases isn’t being matched by such a big spike in hospitalisation and deaths. Credit to that British female scientist who advanced the hypothesis that the amount of virus you caught is likely to be very important, back in March.
As I recall there was a debate on PB with some claiming to have relevant knowledge who argued that it made no difference.
The Guardian has seen documents showing tracers taking up to two weeks to contact friends, relatives and workmates of people diagnosed with Covid-19 – the entire length of the self-isolation period.
But amid growing anger and lengthening queues at testing centres, Dido Harding, head of the £10bn NHS test-and-trace programme designed to prevent a second wave of Covid-19, told MPs on Thursday: “I strongly refute that the system is failing.”
I am no psychologist, but JRM's mental health looks fine to me.
Now look at Obama putting an improved healthcare system in where "slackers" could get treatment without massive payments on health insurance. Obama also started putting in protections for LGBT people which set off the evangelical lobby.
I can see how it came together for Trump and how it might do so this time too.
Corbyn could be likened to any number of dubious political figures. Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Hugo Chavez, Allende and many, many more. The common bond between them all is they have read Das Kapital. Trump, although enjoying links with the former Soviet Union, I suspect has not read Marx. If he could read, Mein Kampf would be the preferred read.
The antisemitic Jeremy Corbyn is closer to Trump.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/11/jeremy-corbyn-like-donald-trump-not-boris-johnson/601957/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-donald-trump-similarities-emily-thornberry-a7410056.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/10/support-donald-trump-similar-rise-jeremy-corbyn-emily-thornberry
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-not-boris-johnson-is-britain-s-trump-
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-and-donald-trump-similar_uk_57b6d427e4b0b8a585b3e5d4
Selfishness and boorishness are both pretty common, and a substantial share of the public believe that greed is good. Lasciviousness is often not seen as a bad thing by men either, it is just seen as alpha male behaviour.
Trump may well win again on that vote.
Edit: Not meaning to moan, just thought it might be of use for debugging!
“ Panic aside, if most immune systems can recognize SARS-CoV-2, it makes no sense for any government to treat or model the virus as a new infection.”
https://twitter.com/dctrjack/status/1306756592965042176
Maybe I will change my mind after I have read it
Telegraph
FFS. Johnson introduced a traffic light system at one of the press conferences way back and then we never heard about it again.
Anyone any idea what level we are at? iirc there were five levels of traffic light.
Interesting article, though I'm rather confused by the idea that rapid tests won't help solve capacity issues with testing. Currently half of all testing capacity is being used clinically by the NHS or Care Homes etc - if that capacity could be freed up with rapid testing like this then the existing capacity for the rest of the country would essentially be doubled wouldn't it?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/health/covid-moderna-vaccine.html
... Dr. Eric Topol, a clinical trial expert at Scripps Research in San Diego, gave Moderna “big kudos” for sharing its plan but said that he was disappointed that Moderna intended to include in its data people who had developed relatively mild cases of Covid-19. He said more compelling evidence of the vaccine’s effectiveness would be produced if the company counted only moderate to severe cases.
Moderna’s plan also allows for the possibility of stopping the trial early after a relatively small number of cases, potentially leading to an exaggerated perception of the vaccine’s efficacy and missing safety problems that could turn out to be significant later if the vaccine were given to millions of people, he said.
Dr. Topol was more critical of Pfizer’s plan because it allowed even milder cases than Moderna’s to be counted and provided more opportunities to stop the trial early based on few cases, which he called troubling.
“Take the time, the extra weeks,” Dr. Topol said. “No shortcuts. Nobody will regret it. I’ve been doing clinical trials for decades. I don’t know if there’s ever been a more important one than this one. I’d like to see it done right, and not stopped early....
Since I have heard nothing further I assume we are still at level 3.5
There is a lot of anxiety and panic out there, only some of which is justified. Poor and confused messaging by the government again but they need to make it clear who and where their priorities for testing are and the rest of us with a seasonal cold at exceptionally low risk will just have to wait a bit.
Shambles.
Just a shame that viewers didn’t seem able to extrapolate from the bumbling fool they saw on HIGNFY to how he might perform in senior office.
Or indeed from a shambolic Foreign Secretary to a shambolic PM.
So very useful in a hospital for rapid clinical decision making, but useless for community testing.
When I was a solicitor there medical records of a certain vintage contained the acronym "NFF". This turned out to be normal for Fife and was subsequently banned by the NHS.
Could we just introduce a 10 point scale and leave things at that - then rate each region as necessary.
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
I would think a first priority for boxes like this would be sending these boxes to Care Homes for instance. They could then test their staff themselves using these kits and get results same day. That would free up a lot of capacity that is currently being taken so the pre-existing capacity used by them could then be freed up for the rest of society.
But if, for example, one of those cases is in a class of 30, or a year group of 100, you can easily see how testing demand will explode.
If they had managed to set up pooled testing protocols for schools and universities over the summer, that demand could potentially have been cut by an order of magnitude.
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2604
https://www.civilserviceworld.com/professions/article/joint-biosecurity-centre-will-not-be-fully-operational-until-later-this-summer-dhsc-says-as-new-head-named
As I said the messaging on this has once again been abysmal, offering the moon (almost literally), failing miserably, then trying to bring some sort of rationing in after everyone is pissed off and even more anxious, its a master class in incompetence. Again.
The big difference is theirs is something more like a "Progress meter" where they have steps marked out, so some areas recently went backwards a step because of a resurgence but, generally speaking, the more you move along the scale, the more restrictions are lifted.
"Without evidence, it’s hard to fix on any Covid strategy. And without a strategy, the Prime Minister will end up anchorless and not in control, the whip hand lying with his scientific advisers. It’s not leadership but a recipe for drift, chaos and confusion – at a time when the country is in dire need of leadership."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/17/anchorless-boris-allowing-britain-drift-towards-another-lockdown/
It was almost comical, amongst my old uni friends I keep in contact with every single one living in England was anti-indy and all bar three living in Scotland were pro-indy.
That the priority right now is people who are at the highest risk of passing the virus to others. That includes front facing NHS staff, care workers and teachers. 50% of our current capacity is dedicated to them.
Our next priority is those areas where the virus is spreading fastest, the hotspots with local lockdowns. 40% of our lab capacity (which is the key) is going to be allocated to them.
If you don't fall into either of these categories we will do our best but these priorities are there for good reasons and you may find it difficult to take a test in the short term until capacity is further increased which we are working on.
This really isn't rocket science. It doesn't have to be a shambles.
This plot shows the estimated rate at which the Pillar 1 & 2 testing is finding cases. Pillar 1 & 2 positives divided by the estimated (by ONS) cases for that day.
The trend line is 14 days.
The problem as I see it for the UK and England in particular is the Westminster Government have no strategy whatsoever. Changes are made to the Covid rules as a result of political expediency or on a whim.
FLK = Funny looking kid was also about.
1) What is the cost of the boxes?
2) What is production capacity of the boxes?
3) How much skilled work is required maintaining them - calibration, cleaning etc?
20 a day could be very useful in a care home setting, if the above are manageable - testing all the residents, once a day?
4) With the usual efficiency scaling thing - a bigger machine that can process in parallel, how do the costs/maintenance/production issues scale as the machine gets bigger?
Worth thinking about this - 15,000 such boxes would do all the Pillar 1 & 2 test currently. 50,000 would do a 1,000,000 per day.