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  • I am happy with 20% Government ownership of Openreach if it enforces full FTTP for all and in a timely manner. 2025 is easily doable with some work.

    Why do you want to confuse ownership with regulations?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107
    ydoethur said:

    I hate to break it to you Malcolm, but unless you were referring to your family pension portfolio rather than the Scottish government, 'you' do not own any part of NatWest. It's 60-odd% controlled by the UK government.
    Am I missing something , are we not part of the UK , do we not have constant whinging about Barnet on here. However I would tend to agree that as we will almost certainly leave debt free then we will probably forgo our share of Natwest.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,193
    ydoethur said:

    Wow.

    That tweet is interesting.

    Isn't there, to put it mildly, a non-trivial risk that such legislation would lead to several banks ceasing to operate in Scotland instead?
    Well the assumption that we would start off with no debt (as opposed to our share of the £2trn national debt) is an interesting starting point.

    The idea that Scots savings somehow and magically give us foreign reserves has the attraction of novelty.

    The idea that we would be able to buy foreign goods with these Poonds at the rate that we want is imaginative.

    The implications of forcibly converting both debts and liabilities to property rights protected by Article 1 Protocol 1 of ECHR are challenging.

    Life wouldn't be dull, that's for sure!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    malcolmg said:

    Am I missing something , are we not part of the UK , do we not have constant whinging about Barnet on here. However I would tend to agree that as we will almost certainly leave debt free then we will probably forgo our share of Natwest.
    Which was my point.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    Why do you want to confuse ownership with regulations?
    A golden stake would prevent any approach by overseas companies.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Perhaps, but on a slight tangent, I do think there would be a benefit to Scotland within the union of the NI system of unionist parties like the UUP and DUP, that are not branches of UK parties. Nobody would seriously accuse the DUP of being a creature of the Tory Party, but by working with them, Arlene was able to squeeze billions out of Theresa May.

    The SNP have pretty much recused themselves of such cooperation as their sole aim is to break away from the UK. The Tories are the most likely to head this way; don't see it happening with Labour.
    The logic about recusement isn't valid as the UK has to be run meantime so the SNP's voters are entirely entitled to representation within the UK.

    But on the wider point, that's an interesting thought.

    SLAB is a full part of UK Labour, I think the Electoral Commission term is 'accounting unit' but you may correct me on that. It's only because of a special clause in electoral law slipped in by (I think) BLair et chums, uniquely exempting the word "Scottish" of any meaning in that context, that it can describe itself as the Scottish Labour Party on ballot papers at all.

    In that sense it's the SCUP which has a slightly more detached existence. However, what would happen if (say) Murdo Fraser went UDI and tried to take the money and computer lists with him I don't know. There is also the point made b y another PBer (sorry I forget whom) that when it came to Brexit the 12 SCUP MPs got nothing compared with a smaller number of DUP despite their big promises.

    SLDs used to be much more woolly and about home rule before they got into bed with Labour in Holyrood and the Tories down south and remarketed themselves as mean, tough hardline unionists in the model of the GPO privatisers and Jo Swinson. But again there is some distinction I believe.

    Greens are completely separate.

    No idea about UKIP.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    There are actually four questions in the first verse.

    And the answer to all of them is 'no.'
    Lit crit is a minefield when the author is as mad as a meat axe, but is it not possible that he realises the answer is "no" and the second verse outlines his plans to put things right?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    DavidL said:

    Well the assumption that we would start off with no debt (as opposed to our share of the £2trn national debt) is an interesting starting point.

    The idea that Scots savings somehow and magically give us foreign reserves has the attraction of novelty.

    The idea that we would be able to buy foreign goods with these Poonds at the rate that we want is imaginative.

    The implications of forcibly converting both debts and liabilities to property rights protected by Article 1 Protocol 1 of ECHR are challenging.

    Life wouldn't be dull, that's for sure!
    Well, Ireland didn't pay any of its agreed share of UK debts.

    But that was in exchange for selling out Fermanagh and Tyrone during the Boundary Commission debacle.

    What could Scotland offer that England wants?
  • MaxPB said:

    A golden stake would prevent any approach by overseas companies.
    Apparently the new national security law means government approval will need for any ownership of critical firms/industries and BT will qualify.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107
    ydoethur said:

    Which was my point.
    I know I was stimulating discussion, and trying to educate the Tory cultists.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    IshmaelZ said:

    Lit crit is a minefield when the author is as mad as a meat axe, but is it not possible that he realises the answer is "no" and the second verse outlines his plans to put things right?
    The first verse is a reference to the legend that Jesus visited Glastonbury in the company of Joseph of Arimethea before starting his Galilean ministry, and that Joseph of Arimathea later brought the Holy Grail there to be concealed.

    Newsflash - Jesus did not visit Glastonbury. It's a later myth developed as part of the romances of Chretien de Troyes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    nichomar said:

    The two song in question make the UK look backward and wallowing in long gone past glories. They celebrate nothing of importance.
    Interesting thing I learned from Lucy Worsley's 'The Georgians' - when Rule Britannia was first written, it was a subversive patriotic song trying to get Britain to adopt a more naval-dependent foreign policy, and stop getting involved in costly land wars. It was 'Britannia 'rule' the waves, not 'rules'. It became 'rules' when it happened, and we did. As such, it potentially still has some relevance, and we should maybe re-adopt the original lyrics as a reminder to our political class.
  • ydoethur said:

    Well, Ireland didn't pay any of its agreed share of UK debts.

    But that was in exchange for selling out Fermanagh and Tyrone during the Boundary Commission debacle.

    What could Scotland offer that England wants?
    Faslane and Edinburgh
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    Apparently the new national security law means government approval will need for any ownership of critical firms/industries and BT will qualify.
    That's going to end once the pandemic is over.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    ydoethur said:

    As I have said before:

    It's phenomenally hard on the organ.
    Making judgements with your organ again eh?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107
    ydoethur said:

    Well, Ireland didn't pay any of its agreed share of UK debts.

    But that was in exchange for selling out Fermanagh and Tyrone during the Boundary Commission debacle.

    What could Scotland offer that England wants?
    Our 10% share of all UK assets for a starter. Maybe a slight reduction in Trident rental from £5B a year to £4.5B.
  • Apparently the new national security law means government approval will need for any ownership of critical firms/industries and BT will qualify.
    The new national security law means the government doesn't need a golden share, all takeovers/major investments in critical firms, such as telecommunications will require government approval.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Faslane and Edinburgh
    Do you mean Rosyth? They've been dredging away what's left of the Mary Rose wreck (not much, on ehopes, after reexcavation) to be able to park the big carriers in Portsmouth.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572

    Making judgements with your organ again eh?
    When you have an eight foot horn at full swell, it's hard to look beyond it.
  • Just to tell you how shit BT have been recently.

    In 2015 they bought EE for £12.5 billion, today the BT Group, including, might go for £15 billion.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,541

    No company in the UK pays pitiful wages on a global scale. The minimum wage is fast approaching £10 per hour not £1 per hour.

    Exploitative employers do exist but they exist far more in the cash-in-hand side of businesses to whom the minimum wage doesn't apply - and to whom the employee will because they're getting paid cash in hand claim full welfare benefits too.
    They are fair points.

    However if a working family needs benefits (so not a single mum scenario for example) that is coming from taxpayers and in that case the taxpayer is therefore subsidizing their employer.

    The welfare state should exist for those who have fallen on unfortunate times. It should not be used to subsidise uncompetitive (or exploitative) businesses.

    This of course is another issue the universal wage ameliorates as a minimum wage would not be an issue any more. Businesses could offer what they like and there would be an open market place without potential employees being exploited as they already have a guaranteed income.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    ydoethur said:

    When you have an eight foot horn at full swell, it's hard to look beyond it.
    I'll have to take your word for it.
  • Deutsche Telekom has surely got to be a buyer for BT, they already own 12% or something along those lines
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Just to tell you how shit BT have been recently.

    In 2015 they bought EE for £12.5 billion, today the BT Group, including, might go for £15 billion.

    Keeping Kevin Bacon on the books was obviously a big drain.
  • BT seems to suffer from the same problem Vodafone suffers from: lack of direction
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    kjh said:

    They are fair points.

    However if a working family needs benefits (so not a single mum scenario for example) that is coming from taxpayers and in that case the taxpayer is therefore subsidizing their employer.

    The welfare state should exist for those who have fallen on unfortunate times. It should not be used to subsidise uncompetitive (or exploitative) businesses.

    This of course is another issue the universal wage ameliorates as a minimum wage would not be an issue any more. Businesses could offer what they like and there would be an open market place without potential employees being exploited as they already have a guaranteed income.
    The current setup is rather reminiscent of the C19 Speenhamland System - using land taxes to subsidise big farmers' payment of below-starvation wages to their workers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572

    Just to tell you how shit BT have been recently.

    In 2015 they bought EE for £12.5 billion, today the BT Group, including, might go for £15 billion.

    Why 'recently'? That's a bit like saying, 'just to show you how mad Corbyn has been recently...'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572

    I'll have to take your word for it.
    WEll, one doesn't like to boast about one's organ, of course.
  • tlg86 said:

    This is going to be one of those stories that's been put out there to drum up advertising for the Proms and the BBC will say they never had any plans to drop the last night songs.
    Don't we have this conversation every single year?

    Two months today it will be people talking about poppies and claiming that poppies are being banned/overly enforced.
  • The Tories are likely to cock up schools
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,163
    edited August 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Well, Ireland didn't pay any of its agreed share of UK debts.

    But that was in exchange for selling out Fermanagh and Tyrone during the Boundary Commission debacle.

    What could Scotland offer that England wants?
    Faslane and Coulport as sovereign base territories.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,394

    Honestly, I think the BBC is now run by a set of moles from the radical right who are determined to get it pulled off air or made subscription only by repeatedly and deliberately shooting the corporation in its own foot.

    You'd almost think, wouldn't you?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,394

    So you would ban all non-British music/composers from the Proms then? :lol:
    No, of course not.

    The proms season forms part of British culture and includes a wide variety of classical music from around the world and always has done.

    The two are not mutually exclusive.
  • I couldn't give a toss about the Proms, it's a non-story
  • The Tories are likely to cock up schools

    And SNP in Scotland

    And Labour in Wales

    And DUP/SF in NI

    Or do they get a pass
  • ydoethur said:

    Why 'recently'? That's a bit like saying, 'just to show you how mad Corbyn has been recently...'
    Well even more shitter than past form?
  • And SNP in Scotland

    And Labour in Wales

    And DUP/SF in NI

    Or do they get a pass
    Whatabout whatabout whatabout
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    Carnyx said:

    The logic about recusement isn't valid as the UK has to be run meantime so the SNP's voters are entirely entitled to representation within the UK.

    But on the wider point, that's an interesting thought.

    SLAB is a full part of UK Labour, I think the Electoral Commission term is 'accounting unit' but you may correct me on that. It's only because of a special clause in electoral law slipped in by (I think) BLair et chums, uniquely exempting the word "Scottish" of any meaning in that context, that it can describe itself as the Scottish Labour Party on ballot papers at all.

    In that sense it's the SCUP which has a slightly more detached existence. However, what would happen if (say) Murdo Fraser went UDI and tried to take the money and computer lists with him I don't know. There is also the point made b y another PBer (sorry I forget whom) that when it came to Brexit the 12 SCUP MPs got nothing compared with a smaller number of DUP despite their big promises.

    SLDs used to be much more woolly and about home rule before they got into bed with Labour in Holyrood and the Tories down south and remarketed themselves as mean, tough hardline unionists in the model of the GPO privatisers and Jo Swinson. But again there is some distinction I believe.

    Greens are completely separate.

    No idea about UKIP.
    Well, on your third point - exactly. Not being a branch of a Westminster party helped the DUP. And I think Scots are wise to that. I believe that a plurality of people living in Scotland want to be defended strongly and pugnaciously within the union, but don't especially want to leave it. For the most part, this was my own view regarding the UK within the EU.

    Regarding a UDI, I don't see it as likely, but if the Tories are cunning enough, there could be a stage-managed spat that could result in Douglas Ross sending proud Boris to think again. Cummings is quite good at creating rows.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,163

    Faslane and Coulport as sovereign base territories.
    Although the Treaty Ports in Ireland only lasted 17 years, so perhaps not that.
  • Whatabout whatabout whatabout
    You see Wales matters to me and my grandchildren and there is no evidence they are doing anything different to England, indeed all the CMOs are in lock step
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107

    I'll have to take your word for it.
    Don't be modest Lucky
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    malcolmg said:

    Don't be modest Lucky
    I'm told it's what you do with your organ that counts.



    *I'll stop
  • England struggling with the weather and the openers
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107

    I'm told it's what you do with your organ that counts.



    *I'll stop
    Somebody was just being nice to you
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,788

    Apparently the new national security law means government approval will need for any ownership of critical firms/industries and BT will qualify.
    It's been chronic for years. Is it now critical ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Carnyx said:

    Nobody ever argued otherwise.
    The SNP White Paper did:

    What about our share of the national debt?
    Scotland and the rest of the UK will agree a share of the national debt. This could be by reference to the historical contribution made to the 􏰌􏰒’s public finances by Scotland. 􏰍n alternative approach would be to use our population share.


    Page 50.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,964

    There's only one song that needs to be banned from the last night of the proms.

    Jerusalem, it is a fecking dirge.

    'And did those feet in ancient time, walk upon England's mountains green?

    NO!

    Very dogmatic there, Mr Eagles. They might have done.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    The first verse is a reference to the legend that Jesus visited Glastonbury in the company of Joseph of Arimethea before starting his Galilean ministry, and that Joseph of Arimathea later brought the Holy Grail there to be concealed.

    Newsflash - Jesus did not visit Glastonbury. It's a later myth developed as part of the romances of Chretien de Troyes.
    Yes, but it is harsh on Blake to take it that he is affirming the myth, when he puts it as a question

    Jesus got around, mind. It is widely recognised in some circles in the US that he spent the time between being crucified and resurrected, mooching around Central America.
  • Nigelb said:

    It's been chronic for years. Is it now critical ?
    Yup, it's a perfect storm.

    People are moving away from landlines, and in some instance fibre broadband, but there's so many other issues for BT to deal with.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    edited August 2020

    And SNP in Scotland

    And Labour in Wales

    And DUP/SF in NI

    Or do they get a pass
    They already all have cocked up.

    But - fortunately from their point of view - 75% of schools and nearly 85% of schoolchildren are in England, so that is where most of the attention goes.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I'm told it's what you do with your organ that counts.



    *I'll stop
    Ydoethur's sostenuto and vibrato are often favourably commented on by the ladies in the congregation.
  • kjh said:

    They are fair points.

    However if a working family needs benefits (so not a single mum scenario for example) that is coming from taxpayers and in that case the taxpayer is therefore subsidizing their employer.

    The welfare state should exist for those who have fallen on unfortunate times. It should not be used to subsidise uncompetitive (or exploitative) businesses.

    This of course is another issue the universal wage ameliorates as a minimum wage would not be an issue any more. Businesses could offer what they like and there would be an open market place without potential employees being exploited as they already have a guaranteed income.
    No you are making a logical leap. If a working family needs benefits that is coming from taxpayers . . . why is the taxpayer then therefore subsidising the employer? The employee is the one getting the money, not the employer.

    You might have a situation where a full time dad earning minimum wage with multiple children at home and a stay at home mum are entitled to benefits. Whereas one of those dad's colleagues who is in a relationship with two adults both working full time with no children are not entitled to any. In that scenario is the employer being subsidised?

    The welfare state is geared towards welfare for children, not welfare for employers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    ydoethur said:

    They already all have cocked up.

    But - fortunately from their point of view - 75% of schools and nearly 85% of schoolchildren are in England, so that is where most of the attention goes.
    And then they whinge that their 8% of the pupils "aren't getting fair coverage on the BBC".
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814
    On FTTP, leaks of Starlink’s (SpaceX) performance to beta testers have been hitting the net in the last week or two. Looking good. 10-20mb upload and 50-60mb download and thats with a non optimised service with pretty scarce coverage. Should only get better from there.

    I think it will be available to non fibre connected users in south England by around late 2021 (south of a line between Ipswich and Gloucester).

    Don’t know why the government didn’t go for a stake in SpaceX rather than get conned into bailing out OneWeb, who can never hope to compete with SpaceX given the overriding cost component is the launch cost.

    Everywhere else in the UK would get covered perhaps 18 - 24 months later is a reasonable guess, but would no doubt be accelerated if the government made available free polar to polar launch capability.

    As with everything, Big Tech is leaving the state bureaucracies in its wake. For anyone else that wants in, there aren’t any good pure plays sadly. But you do get some diluted exposure by buying Google or Baille Gifford’s Scottish Mortgage Trust or US Growth funds.

    SpaceX valued at $44bn this week, looks as clear as day a quick 10x bagger from here.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    IshmaelZ said:

    Yes, but it is harsh on Blake to take it that he is affirming the myth, when he puts it as a question

    Jesus got around, mind. It is widely recognised in some circles in the US that he spent the time between being crucified and resurrected, mooching around Central America.
    I've always taken 'did those feet' as just an archaic way of saying 'those feet did' rather than an actual question.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Funny that the Russian Drs didn't find that......

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1297915329599987714?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    IshmaelZ said:

    Ydoethur's sostenuto and vibrato are often favourably commented on by the ladies in the congregation.
    Somebody clearly doesn't know much about organs.

    It's the superoctave coupler that determines the final climax.

    Although I sometimes add the tremulant if I'm feeling bored.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    ydoethur said:

    The first verse is a reference to the legend that Jesus visited Glastonbury in the company of Joseph of Arimethea before starting his Galilean ministry, and that Joseph of Arimathea later brought the Holy Grail there to be concealed.

    Newsflash - Jesus did not visit Glastonbury. It's a later myth developed as part of the romances of Chretien de Troyes.
    "Join us in the main buletin, when we will will be reporting that it took longer than six days to create the world."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572

    Funny that the Russian Drs didn't find that......

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1297915329599987714?s=20

    The winner of today's No Shit Sherlock award is...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    edited August 2020

    Well, on your third point - exactly. Not being a branch of a Westminster party helped the DUP. And I think Scots are wise to that. I believe that a plurality of people living in Scotland want to be defended strongly and pugnaciously within the union, but don't especially want to leave it. For the most part, this was my own view regarding the UK within the EU.

    Regarding a UDI, I don't see it as likely, but if the Tories are cunning enough, there could be a stage-managed spat that could result in Douglas Ross sending proud Boris to think again. Cummings is quite good at creating rows.
    The trouble is I can't see that any London HQ would really let go enough to allow a true release. Or the party members in Scotland, which have tended to lose all but the hardline Unionist rumps anyway. Butd what is interesting is that [edit] in 2010 when they had the SCUP leadership election, Murdo Fraser who outlined just such a proposal came quite close to beating Ms Davidson - surprisingly close I see on checking back. He had 90% of her first preference votes and 80% of the final vote when the losers' were divvied up. However, that was in 2010 pre-indyref and I suspect the disparity would be rather higher ifg it were replayed next week.

    Labour can't without a basic reorganization anyway - indeed we saw that when the Gen Sec slapped down Ms Dugdale spending Party money on her court case, IIRC.
  • No you are making a logical leap. If a working family needs benefits that is coming from taxpayers . . . why is the taxpayer then therefore subsidising the employer? The employee is the one getting the money, not the employer.

    You might have a situation where a full time dad earning minimum wage with multiple children at home and a stay at home mum are entitled to benefits. Whereas one of those dad's colleagues who is in a relationship with two adults both working full time with no children are not entitled to any. In that scenario is the employer being subsidised?

    The welfare state is geared towards welfare for children, not welfare for employers.
    It means the employer can pay below the market rate for employees, since the state will top up their wages. This is bad because it drives out good employers (operationally defined as those who pay higher wages) and distorts the market. So there is a right wing economic case against these subsidies, not just the traditional anti-scrounger Tufton Bufton rant (and you get to blame Gordon Brown!).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,788
    ydoethur said:

    Somebody clearly doesn't know much about organs.

    It's the superoctave coupler that determines the final climax.

    Although I sometimes add the tremulant if I'm feeling bored.
    Are you still hand pumped, or do you receive electronic assistance these days ?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    ydoethur said:

    Somebody clearly doesn't know much about organs.

    It's the superoctave coupler that determines the final climax.

    Although I sometimes add the tremulant if I'm feeling bored.
    I wonder if it is because of these kind of jokes that you very rarely see women organists. :sigh:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    Nigelb said:

    Are you still hand pumped, or do you receive electronic assistance these days ?
    I can be blown either way.

    I find hand pumping is more reliable, but all smart people these days use electric.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,222
    edited August 2020
    USA GOP veep betting

    In the last few minutes, someone has mopped up everything on Betfair. Is anyone watching the RNC livestream? If they were, they'd know Pence has just been nominated.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    Scott_xP said:
    Just like virtually every other member of this Brexit Party-Lite government, he is lightweight, fucking useless and does not have a clue what he is doing. But as far as Johnson is concerned, that is OK, because (unlike Johnson) he is a true believer, and so completely inept that he is no threat (even) to Johnson, ever.
  • It means the employer can pay below the market rate for employees, since the state will top up their wages. This is bad because it drives out good employers (operationally defined as those who pay higher wages) and distorts the market. So there is a right wing economic case against these subsidies, not just the traditional anti-scrounger Tufton Bufton rant (and you get to blame Gordon Brown!).
    No it doesn't, since again the welfare has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the job being done and everything to do with how many children and other things totally unrelated to the job.

    If the welfare state were removed overnight with nothing to replace it and the minimum wage were abolished overnight with nothing to replace it then would the market rate for what we call minimum wage jobs at the minute go up or down? If you believe welfare is subsidising employers then presumably abolishing welfare state would see wages go up? I doubt it personally.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    eristdoof said:

    I wonder if it is because of these kind of jokes that you very rarely see women organists. :sigh:
    Or maybe it's just because you weren't looking? A great many organists in the Church of England are female. Cannock as a parish is unique in my experience in having three male organists. I once played in a large benefice where I was the only male organist - the other seven were women.

    The snag in PR terms is that most senior professional organists are developed from the all-male choir schools. Which is why, of course, the stereotype of an organist is a white posh male.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Scott_xP said:
    Why not just copy what they're doing in Scotland? They're back first. (What are they doing in Scotland?)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    Carnyx said:

    The trouble is I can't see that any London HQ would really let go enough to allow a true release. Or the party members in Scotland, which have tended to lose all but the hardline Unionist rumps anyway. Butd what is interesting is that [edit] in 2010 when they had the SCUP leadership election, Murdo Fraser who outlined just such a proposal came quite close to beating Ms Davidson - surprisingly close I see on checking back. He had 90% of her first preference votes and 80% of the final vote when the losers' were divvied up. However, that was in 2010 pre-indyref and I suspect the disparity would be rather higher ifg it were replayed next week.

    Labour can't without a basic reorganization anyway - indeed we saw that when the Gen Sec slapped down Ms Dugdale spending Party money on her court case, IIRC.
    Sometimes you have to let go to gain anything.

    By the same token, the Tories should adopt the policy of democratising the House of Lords intake by allocating spaces in the Lords according to overall vote share. It would discomfit the SNP, at least mildly, because they'd be forced to either nominate candidates to be ennobled, or be accused of diminishing Scotland's potential influence.

    It would however mean the Tories losing a degree of the power of patronage, and a gradual ebbing of their domination of the HOL.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,788
    ydoethur said:

    I can be blown either way.

    I find hand pumping is more reliable, but all smart people these days use electric.
    I might be misinterpreting, but I've also heard reference to a combination action.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eristdoof said:

    "Join us in the main buletin, when we will will be reporting that it took longer than six days to create the world."
    Not really the strongest point ever made on PB. The evidence against the one claim is virtually all of science, the evidence against the other is ... what?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,788
    New Thread.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Debt isn't the relevant metric, the deficit and the economic cycle are the two relevant metrics.

    We aren't growing, we're in a recession. We weren't in a recession in 2010. Once the recession is behind us the deficit must be dealt with.
    The Budget Deficit under Brown pre-GFC was 2.9% - not significantly higher than the average Deficit 1953 - 1967 of 2.5% - a period which saw rapid economic growth and no serious recession. Barber's Boom of 1973 we saw a Budget Deficit of 4% - much higher than under Brown.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    ydoethur said:

    Or maybe it's just because you weren't looking? A great many organists in the Church of England are female. Cannock as a parish is unique in my experience in having three male organists. I once played in a large benefice where I was the only male organist - the other seven were women.

    The snag in PR terms is that most senior professional organists are developed from the all-male choir schools. Which is why, of course, the stereotype of an organist is a white posh male.
    ydoethur said:

    Or maybe it's just because you weren't looking? A great many organists in the Church of England are female. Cannock as a parish is unique in my experience in having three male organists. I once played in a large benefice where I was the only male organist - the other seven were women.

    The snag in PR terms is that most senior professional organists are developed from the all-male choir schools. Which is why, of course, the stereotype of an organist is a white posh male.
    I'm glad to be corrected. My misconception may also be something to do with most of the organists I see now are either in a concert hall or in a large and historic church, which probably also suffer from your "senior professional organist" observation. When I was younger I went to quite lot of smaller curches for the service, and while I remember a few female pianists, I do not remember any female organists at all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    edited August 2020
    Nigelb said:

    I might be misinterpreting, but I've also heard reference to a combination action.
    @Nigelb
    That could refer to two things:

    1) A 'combination' in organ playing is where you hit either a pedal or a button and a preselected set of stops come out together. Usually they are called 'combination pedals' and 'composition buttons.' My organ at home has the latter, because it's electronic, the organs at Chadsmoor and Cannock have the former. (The great advantage of electronic is you can change the stops each button registers.)


    2) But I think from the context you are referring to a combined action, which is where the keys/stops are partly mechanical ('tracker') and partly electronic or tubular pneumatic (hopefully not the latter as they're a right bugger to keep in order).
  • Why not just copy what they're doing in Scotland? They're back first. (What are they doing in Scotland?)
    The stop press is the WHO pronouncing in favour of masks for 12-year-olds, which might have taken HMG by surprise. Maybe Gav can get hold of that warehouseful of masks the NHS cannot use.
  • Quite what? Without Bercow, there was a general election so that point is moot. Until then, it was possible (if unlikely) to construct a Labour government to revoke Article 50 and call an election.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    And SNP in Scotland

    And Labour in Wales

    And DUP/SF in NI

    Or do they get a pass
    Actually Wales didn't cock up on this year's A-level exams. The Welsh Government had in the previous decade taken the wise decision to retain AS levels in contrast to Gove's move to put A levels all into one Year 13 basket in England. Hence about 40% of the overall Welsh A level marks were already banked having been marked independently in the normal way the previous year. Unlike England, that meant there was a pretty good benchmark to fall back on. AS results are a pretty good predictor of A level grades and in addition a guaranteed floor of AS level results was also offered from the outset.

    I think the only reason that the Welsh Government announced a change of approach was because at the 11th hour they became aware that there would be rampant grade inflation across the rest of the UK from the use of predicted grades in England as well as Scotland. That followed from the pending announcement of the u-turn on policy in England, which forced the hand of the Welsh so as not to devalue Welsh results relative to those elsewhere.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107
    ydoethur said:

    They already all have cocked up.

    But - fortunately from their point of view - 75% of schools and nearly 85% of schoolchildren are in England, so that is where most of the attention goes.
    Where have Scotland cocked up, they have been open for two weeks with no issues. All you see on here is Tories trying to deflect from the Tories cock ups in England, constant whining about others rather than castigate their own government, pretty pathetic all round.
  • Quite what? Without Bercow, there was a general election so that point is moot. Until then, it was possible (if unlikely) to construct a Labour government to revoke Article 50 and call an election.
    No it wasn't. Do the maths and show how you get a majority behind a Labour government.
  • NEW THREAD

  • nichomar said:

    The two song in question make the UK look backward and wallowing in long gone past glories. They celebrate nothing of importance.
    Without the Last Night, the audience figures would not justify the whole season. That's the point.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107

    Sometimes you have to let go to gain anything.

    By the same token, the Tories should adopt the policy of democratising the House of Lords intake by allocating spaces in the Lords according to overall vote share. It would discomfit the SNP, at least mildly, because they'd be forced to either nominate candidates to be ennobled, or be accused of diminishing Scotland's potential influence.

    It would however mean the Tories losing a degree of the power of patronage, and a gradual ebbing of their domination of the HOL.
    SNP would refuse to sit in HOL, it is a joke for troughers to cash in
  • No it doesn't, since again the welfare has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the job being done and everything to do with how many children and other things totally unrelated to the job.

    If the welfare state were removed overnight with nothing to replace it and the minimum wage were abolished overnight with nothing to replace it then would the market rate for what we call minimum wage jobs at the minute go up or down? If you believe welfare is subsidising employers then presumably abolishing welfare state would see wages go up? I doubt it personally.
    Benefits subsidise the cost of labour. If benefits were abolished then employers would have to pay a higher price for staff (or import cheap labour from abroad but that's another story). This would in the long term favour "better" employers (or increase demand for automation, which is another another story).

    If there are two makers of widgets, company A paying £20 an hour and B paying £10 an hour, workers would flock to A, and B would go out of business.

    Then benefits come along so that workers at company B take home the same amount as their peers at A. Now A and B have similar quality workforces but B's expenses are less, so it can charge less for its widgets, undercutting A who goes bust.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,107

    The SNP White Paper did:

    What about our share of the national debt?
    Scotland and the rest of the UK will agree a share of the national debt. This could be by reference to the historical contribution made to the 􏰌􏰒’s public finances by Scotland. 􏰍n alternative approach would be to use our population share.


    Page 50.
    That was based on a fair share of ALL of thevalue of UK assets being deposited in our central bank. Usual half (s)tory.
  • No it wasn't. Do the maths and show how you get a majority behind a Labour government.
    It depends how busy dentists are on the day of the vote.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,572
    malcolmg said:

    Where have Scotland cocked up, they have been open for two weeks with no issues. All you see on here is Tories trying to deflect from the Tories cock ups in England, constant whining about others rather than castigate their own government, pretty pathetic all round.
    Higher results?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,846
    malcolmg said:

    SNP would refuse to sit in HOL, it is a joke for troughers to cash in
    That's the trap. If they refused, Scotland would have less representation. The other parties would be able to point to the SNP's 'anti' everything stance denying Scotland the representation to which it is entitled. Especially if the spaces were redistributed amongst the other parties, resulting in more Tory Lords.
  • NEW THREAD
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IshmaelZ said:

    Lit crit is a minefield when the author is as mad as a meat axe, but is it not possible that he realises the answer is "no" and the second verse outlines his plans to put things right?
    What evidence do you have that Joesph of Arimathea never visited Glastonbury?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    The first verse is a reference to the legend that Jesus visited Glastonbury in the company of Joseph of Arimethea before starting his Galilean ministry, and that Joseph of Arimathea later brought the Holy Grail there to be concealed.

    Newsflash - Jesus did not visit Glastonbury. It's a later myth developed as part of the romances of Chretien de Troyes.
    Wasn’t it Robert de Boron?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_de_Boron
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,541

    Benefits subsidise the cost of labour. If benefits were abolished then employers would have to pay a higher price for staff (or import cheap labour from abroad but that's another story). This would in the long term favour "better" employers (or increase demand for automation, which is another another story).

    If there are two makers of widgets, company A paying £20 an hour and B paying £10 an hour, workers would flock to A, and B would go out of business.

    Then benefits come along so that workers at company B take home the same amount as their peers at A. Now A and B have similar quality workforces but B's expenses are less, so it can charge less for its widgets, undercutting A who goes bust.

    @DecrepitJohnL - Your last 2 posts on this subject were much better than mine so thank you. Very well argued.

    Philip twice gave specific instances where welfare was clearly needed for an individual. That is not the same as where large numbers of employees at an employer require that welfare assistance. In that case it is subsidising the employers overhead at the expense of the taxpayer and distorting the marketplace.
This discussion has been closed.