The other Saizeriya corona innovation was to round up all their prices (eg 300 yen instead of 299 yen) to need to give change.
Still using notes and coin rather than contactless cards in Japan?
Yup, you can use contactless cards if you want to everywhere except like little village shops run by old people, and sometimes even there. But cash works really well in Japan, there's not much street crime and they never bitch at you for using a big note. The government's trying really hard to change it - they even had a special lower VAT rate for cashless payments - but most people just want to stick with cash.
The other thing about cash in Japan is that you can use pretty large quantities; After a funeral I was walking around with the equivalent of like 10K GBP in little envelopes, and when I pay my taxes I just walk into the post office with cash and wop my wad on the counter, in accordance with my Essex heritage.
Sounds great. Do futons have special pockets for cash?
GPs are fucking useless part 26 - my dad got a text from the GP surgery, he needs a regular BP check up, fine. Text as follows "due to exceptional virus containment measures we are currently not taking any in person appointments, however, we still need to test your BP, could you please purchase a BP machine from a pharmacy, take a measurement and respond to this message with the reading".
Honestly, what the fuck is going on with the NHS. This is absolutely fucking disgraceful, they are now using the virus as an excuse to just not do any work. I might start a new boo the NHS at 8pm on Thursday trend.
I've told him to contact the Daily Mail with the text and let them write about it.
I do see the problem of surgeries having a constant stream of potentially infected people, so I've no issue with triaging and initially consulting by phone. But this seems unreasonable. Has your dad considered enquiring whether other local surgeries are more helpful? Certainly mine did a blood test (which seems slightly more interactive than a BP reading) without hesitation when needed for a minor check-up.
Problems getting a blood test? I get in the queue with the others requiring one between 8-9 in the morning as they rattle through about 60 plus a session, socially distanced queue, masks required and temperature taken on entry. Results online 6 hours latter when possible ready for the follow up consultation if needed.
Off topic, but the betting markets on Trump versus the news flow are genuinely bizarre.
I was reading this week-end's poll reporting from Newsweek. Their numbers show Biden a street ahead. A street ahead. IN the Swing states.
Newsweek's article reporting these numbers was almost apologetic. Like Henry V reading the casualty numbers after Agincourt in the Shakespeare play.
The only hope for Trump is that there a significant number of shy GOPpers. People so embarassed by Trump that they dare not speak his name yet will vote for him anyway. Otherwise he is toast. However bad his numbers are now, they're about to get worse as he spends every night of the GOP convention raving into the cameras about how popular he is.
Its also interesting that when people ask non=partisan questions they get different replies. Newsweek also polled black people and 80% said they want police funding to at least stay at the same level as it is, or even increase.
can the well of shy Trump voters, or people who simply won;t turn out for the dems, be that deep?
Surely not. But its a fascinating question.
And here's another question
If you are a pollster employed by an organisation for whom one side is a totally hated and completely abhorred anathema, are you really going to spring a poll showing that guy doing well?
One of the closest pollsters on the popular vote in 2016 was Rasmussen, who had Hillary ahead by 2% in their final poll, their last poll has it Biden 48% and Trump 44% and 4% undecided.
Trafalgar group also got Michigan and Pennsylvania right in 2016 and has key state polls much closer
And of course they got that massive 5 point win for Trump in Nevada absolutely spot on.
I am afraid that Mr Meeks, through his arrogant blindness which means that no Leaver can ever be anything less than a fanatic, once again makes claims that are not supported by the most basic of facts.
Most of those Leavers who were happy with the idea of a Norway or Switzerland deal would still be happy with that deal. The problem is that we were never the majority amongst the Leave movement and so have to accept that that will not now be the end point. We have not become more radicalised.
With the exception of the few public figures who would say and do anything to achieve their aims (shock, horror, politicians lie to get what they want!!) most Leavers are still in the same position they were in back when this all started. Those who wanted to sever all ties, however ephemeral, still want to. Those who wanted to kick out all the foreigners still want to. And those who wanted to be out of the political union but were happy with a trading relationship like that enjoyed by EFTA still want that.
I have no idea where we will end up - simply because I have no idea what makes Johnson tick beyond basic desire for power and self aggrandisement. He may well decide to crumble at the last minute. He may well see this as his 1940, standing proudly on the cliffs and daring the enemy to come. Whatever he does will be driven by what he thinks is best for him rather than the country. But as I have said all along, wherever we end up it will be not as good as the Brexit politicians promised and not as bad as the Remainer politicians claimed. It will certainly, for me at least, be better than where we were.
Any Leaver who is still earnestly asserting how happy he would be with Norway is effectively in this position:
Would-be Arsonist: I propose to set fire to this building. We can all enjoy the pretty spectacle of the flickering flames and the flashing blue lights, and I shall rescue someone and be a hero and be on telly and everything.
Officious Bystander: In reality, you will cause massive death and suffering, will be found out and will go to prison for a very long time.
WbA: Hmmm, I believe you are probably right.
[thinks].
Nevertheless, I MUST HONOUR MY DECISION TO SET FIRE TO THIS BUILDING.
Off topic, but the betting markets on Trump versus the news flow are genuinely bizarre.
I was reading this week-end's poll reporting from Newsweek. Their numbers show Biden a street ahead. A street ahead. IN the Swing states.
Newsweek's article reporting these numbers was almost apologetic. Like Henry V reading the casualty numbers after Agincourt in the Shakespeare play.
The only hope for Trump is that there a significant number of shy GOPpers. People so embarassed by Trump that they dare not speak his name yet will vote for him anyway. Otherwise he is toast. However bad his numbers are now, they're about to get worse as he spends every night of the GOP convention raving into the cameras about how popular he is.
Its also interesting that when people ask non=partisan questions they get different replies. Newsweek also polled black people and 80% said they want police funding to at least stay at the same level as it is, or even increase.
can the well of shy Trump voters, or people who simply won;t turn out for the dems, be that deep?
Surely not. But its a fascinating question.
And here's another question
If you are a pollster employed by an organisation for whom one side is a totally hated and completely abhorred anathema, are you really going to spring a poll showing that guy doing well?
One of the closest pollsters on the popular vote in 2016 was Rasmussen, who had Hillary ahead by 2% in their final poll, their last poll has it Biden 48% and Trump 44% and 4% undecided.
Trafalgar group also got Michigan and Pennsylvania right in 2016 and has key state polls much closer
And of course they got that massive 5 point win for Trump in Nevada absolutely spot on.
Trafalgar certainly did better at the state level than many pollsters.
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Off topic, but the betting markets on Trump versus the news flow are genuinely bizarre.
I was reading this week-end's poll reporting from Newsweek. Their numbers show Biden a street ahead. A street ahead. IN the Swing states.
Newsweek's article reporting these numbers was almost apologetic. Like Henry V reading the casualty numbers after Agincourt in the Shakespeare play.
The only hope for Trump is that there a significant number of shy GOPpers. People so embarassed by Trump that they dare not speak his name yet will vote for him anyway. Otherwise he is toast. However bad his numbers are now, they're about to get worse as he spends every night of the GOP convention raving into the cameras about how popular he is.
Its also interesting that when people ask non=partisan questions they get different replies. Newsweek also polled black people and 80% said they want police funding to at least stay at the same level as it is, or even increase.
can the well of shy Trump voters, or people who simply won;t turn out for the dems, be that deep?
Surely not. But its a fascinating question.
And here's another question
If you are a pollster employed by an organisation for whom one side is a totally hated and completely abhorred anathema, are you really going to spring a poll showing that guy doing well?
One of the closest pollsters on the popular vote in 2016 was Rasmussen, who had Hillary ahead by 2% in their final poll, their last poll has it Biden 48% and Trump 44% and 4% undecided.
Trafalgar group also got Michigan and Pennsylvania right in 2016 and has key state polls much closer
And of course they got that massive 5 point win for Trump in Nevada absolutely spot on.
They got Florida right as well.
Nevada would not have made a difference even if Trump had won it if Hillary had held the other Obama states Trump won.
However all that means is you just discount the Trafalgar group Nevada polls this year and focus on their Michigan, Pennsylvania and Florida polls
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Ah, come on, we’ve not had many threads on Brexit lately. I have to confess that endless posts about R-numbers and infection numbers don’t entice me either.
We could talk about Corbyn’s appalling GE campaign instead?
Surviving 119 overs with 16 wkts aint a walk in the park
It is the psychological element that make's cricket such a brilliant game. The series has gone, two brutal days in the field and your best batsmen in the hutch already. This is when people either stand up and put a really good partnership together to bring some hope or fold. So far Pakistan look beaten but someone may hold their hand up yet.
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
To be honest I agree about the constant threads rehashing all the same old arguments
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Ah, come on, we’ve not had many threads on Brexit lately. I have to confess that endless posts about R-numbers and infection numbers don’t entice me either.
We could talk about Corbyn’s appalling GE campaign instead?
We've had a Herdson Meeks double this weekend!
And is there anything else really to be said about Corbyn (other than sorry from those who thought he was a good idea)?
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Ah, come on, we’ve not had many threads on Brexit lately. I have to confess that endless posts about R-numbers and infection numbers don’t entice me either.
We could talk about Corbyn’s appalling GE campaign instead?
Well given that in the UK the covid crisis is over, there isn’t going to be an Indy vote and we won’t notice brexit we might as well have an AV thread.
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
Scotland voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in a once in a generation vote, the Tory majority at Westminster will ensure that is respected.
However if Scotland was allowed an indyref2 after a No Deal Brexit then tariffs on Scottish exports to the UK and border posts across the Scottish border are inevitable if it then voted to leave the UK and rejoin the EU
GPs are fucking useless part 26 - my dad got a text from the GP surgery, he needs a regular BP check up, fine. Text as follows "due to exceptional virus containment measures we are currently not taking any in person appointments, however, we still need to test your BP, could you please purchase a BP machine from a pharmacy, take a measurement and respond to this message with the reading".
Honestly, what the fuck is going on with the NHS. This is absolutely fucking disgraceful, they are now using the virus as an excuse to just not do any work. I might start a new boo the NHS at 8pm on Thursday trend.
I've told him to contact the Daily Mail with the text and let them write about it.
|A health service that doesn;t want patients. A school system that doesn;t want pupils.
And a government that doesn´t want citizens.
You can't accuse this Government of acting purely to court votes....
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Ah, come on, we’ve not had many threads on Brexit lately. I have to confess that endless posts about R-numbers and infection numbers don’t entice me either.
We could talk about Corbyn’s appalling GE campaign instead?
I am afraid that Mr Meeks, through his arrogant blindness which means that no Leaver can ever be anything less than a fanatic, once again makes claims that are not supported by the most basic of facts.
Most of those Leavers who were happy with the idea of a Norway or Switzerland deal would still be happy with that deal. The problem is that we were never the majority amongst the Leave movement and so have to accept that that will not now be the end point. We have not become more radicalised.
With the exception of the few public figures who would say and do anything to achieve their aims (shock, horror, politicians lie to get what they want!!) most Leavers are still in the same position they were in back when this all started. Those who wanted to sever all ties, however ephemeral, still want to. Those who wanted to kick out all the foreigners still want to. And those who wanted to be out of the political union but were happy with a trading relationship like that enjoyed by EFTA still want that.
I have no idea where we will end up - simply because I have no idea what makes Johnson tick beyond basic desire for power and self aggrandisement. He may well decide to crumble at the last minute. He may well see this as his 1940, standing proudly on the cliffs and daring the enemy to come. Whatever he does will be driven by what he thinks is best for him rather than the country. But as I have said all along, wherever we end up it will be not as good as the Brexit politicians promised and not as bad as the Remainer politicians claimed. It will certainly, for me at least, be better than where we were.
Any Leaver who is still earnestly asserting how happy he would be with Norway is effectively in this position:
Would-be Arsonist: I propose to set fire to this building. We can all enjoy the pretty spectacle of the flickering flames and the flashing blue lights, and I shall rescue someone and be a hero and be on telly and everything.
Officious Bystander: In reality, you will cause massive death and suffering, will be found out and will go to prison for a very long time.
WbA: Hmmm, I believe you are probably right.
[thinks].
Nevertheless, I MUST HONOUR MY DECISION TO SET FIRE TO THIS BUILDING.
When the Officious Bystander is one of those who has been soaking the building in petrol for the last few decades and filling it with flammable materials to the extent that a fire is inevitable then they lose all credibility. You are in that position right now.
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Ah, come on, we’ve not had many threads on Brexit lately. I have to confess that endless posts about R-numbers and infection numbers don’t entice me either.
We could talk about Corbyn’s appalling GE campaign instead?
That’s the afternoon thread.
Up here in Buchan with the family - a trip to Peterhead is in the offing so I may miss the thread.
Corbyn demanding his right to be consulted on the campaign that Corbyn cultists were pursuing is brilliant. Told by their own pollsters they'd be reduced to 138 MPs he presses on anyway to be ignored by his own cult. Yet the cult denounce the staffers who actually gained seats in 2017!
As for the Tom Watson nearly defecting to the LibDems story, that would have been entertaining...
That Times stuff about Corbyn is completely damning. The 2019 campaign was completely and utterly dysfunctional.
When you put very stupid, highly factional and utterly vindictive people in charge of an election campaign, yoiu end up with the result that Labour got. McDonnell was literally the only one among them who had even the slightest clue. In another life, he could have been a serious politician at the heart of government rather than the only sentinent member of a destructive, clueless cabal.
The other thing from the ST piece worth noting is how much worse for Labour it could have been (and how much better for the LibDems) if Starmer's referendum strategy had not been adopted by McDonnell.
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
Absolutely. I actually would welcome a prosperous and independent Scotland on our Northern borders. I see no reason why it should not be a success as long as Westminster is reasonable and realises the long term benefits of supporting a friendly nation that shares a long and generally friendly history and with which we have a great deal in common.
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
Absolutely. I actually would welcome a prosperous and independent Scotland on our Northern borders. I see no reason why it should not be a success as long as Westminster is reasonable and realises the long term benefits of supporting a friendly nation that shares a long and generally friendly history and with which we have a great deal in common.
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with letting them start with no debt. The big issue is the currency. Should the BoE guarantee the deposits of a foreign bank, and if so, for how long?
That Times stuff about Corbyn is completely damning. The 2019 campaign was completely and utterly dysfunctional.
When you put very stupid, highly factional and utterly vindictive people in charge of an election campaign, yoiu end up with the result that Labour got. McDonnell was literally the only one among them who had even the slightest clue. In another life, he could have been a serious politician at the heart of government rather than the only sentinent member of a destructive, clueless cabal.
The other thing from the ST piece worth noting is how much worse for Labour it could have been (and how much better for the LibDems) if Starmer's referendum strategy had not been adopted by McDonnell.
Labour is very lucky Swinson also seemed to sabotage herself.
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
Absolutely. I actually would welcome a prosperous and independent Scotland on our Northern borders. I see no reason why it should not be a success as long as Westminster is reasonable and realises the long term benefits of supporting a friendly nation that shares a long and generally friendly history and with which we have a great deal in common.
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with letting them start with no debt. The big issue is the currency. Should the BoE guarantee the deposits of a foreign bank, and if so, for how long?
No, and no it shouldn't. Independence means independence.
I am afraid that Mr Meeks, through his arrogant blindness which means that no Leaver can ever be anything less than a fanatic, once again makes claims that are not supported by the most basic of facts.
Most of those Leavers who were happy with the idea of a Norway or Switzerland deal would still be happy with that deal. The problem is that we were never the majority amongst the Leave movement and so have to accept that that will not now be the end point. We have not become more radicalised.
With the exception of the few public figures who would say and do anything to achieve their aims (shock, horror, politicians lie to get what they want!!) most Leavers are still in the same position they were in back when this all started. Those who wanted to sever all ties, however ephemeral, still want to. Those who wanted to kick out all the foreigners still want to. And those who wanted to be out of the political union but were happy with a trading relationship like that enjoyed by EFTA still want that.
I have no idea where we will end up - simply because I have no idea what makes Johnson tick beyond basic desire for power and self aggrandisement. He may well decide to crumble at the last minute. He may well see this as his 1940, standing proudly on the cliffs and daring the enemy to come. Whatever he does will be driven by what he thinks is best for him rather than the country. But as I have said all along, wherever we end up it will be not as good as the Brexit politicians promised and not as bad as the Remainer politicians claimed. It will certainly, for me at least, be better than where we were.
Any Leaver who is still earnestly asserting how happy he would be with Norway is effectively in this position:
Would-be Arsonist: I propose to set fire to this building. We can all enjoy the pretty spectacle of the flickering flames and the flashing blue lights, and I shall rescue someone and be a hero and be on telly and everything.
Officious Bystander: In reality, you will cause massive death and suffering, will be found out and will go to prison for a very long time.
WbA: Hmmm, I believe you are probably right.
[thinks].
Nevertheless, I MUST HONOUR MY DECISION TO SET FIRE TO THIS BUILDING.
When the Officious Bystander is one of those who has been soaking the building in petrol for the last few decades and filling it with flammable materials to the extent that a fire is inevitable then they lose all credibility. You are in that position right now.
Nope, I'm a happy to stay in or happy with Norway Laodicean. But having voted remain, pretty much on a coin toss, I don't have a Bridge on the River Kwai moment to look forward to.
"It was bound to catch fire anyway sooner or later" is not a mitigation, never mind a defence.
GPs are fucking useless part 26 - my dad got a text from the GP surgery, he needs a regular BP check up, fine. Text as follows "due to exceptional virus containment measures we are currently not taking any in person appointments, however, we still need to test your BP, could you please purchase a BP machine from a pharmacy, take a measurement and respond to this message with the reading".
Honestly, what the fuck is going on with the NHS. This is absolutely fucking disgraceful, they are now using the virus as an excuse to just not do any work. I might start a new boo the NHS at 8pm on Thursday trend.
I've told him to contact the Daily Mail with the text and let them write about it.
|A health service that doesn;t want patients. A school system that doesn;t want pupils.
When Yes Minister had the super efficient hospital that didn't have any patients oh how we laughed at the absurdity. Well we're not laughing now.
But it won the Florence Nightingale award for most hygienic hospital!
I have been genuinely expecting a serious proposal that all potential covid patients without exception should lock themselves into their homes and die, rather than selfishly endanger Our Wonderful NHS Carers by seeking medical assistance. We are getting there.
The one area that's been running reasonably normally is the local pharmacy. At least ours is, and that's what I read about elsewhere.
That Times stuff about Corbyn is completely damning. The 2019 campaign was completely and utterly dysfunctional.
When you put very stupid, highly factional and utterly vindictive people in charge of an election campaign, yoiu end up with the result that Labour got. McDonnell was literally the only one among them who had even the slightest clue. In another life, he could have been a serious politician at the heart of government rather than the only sentinent member of a destructive, clueless cabal.
The other thing from the ST piece worth noting is how much worse for Labour it could have been (and how much better for the LibDems) if Starmer's referendum strategy had not been adopted by McDonnell.
Labour is very lucky Swinson also seemed to sabotage herself.
A few angry LDs on Twitter complaining that Swinson would "let in anybody". As I have responded the party needs to win votes from across the spectrum so bringing in new members not an issue. The Flight of Icarus nature of the Swinson targeting strategy was the problem. It was chaos.
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
To be honest I agree about the constant threads rehashing all the same old arguments
I'm probably feeling better than the rest of you, as I took Alistair's advice and only read paragraph 2 .
I'm interested where these promises were made:
"this Leave government is stuffed full of men and women who promised that Britain would secure the exact same terms, that it would be the easiest deal in history and that Britain could have its cake and eat it."
Reference, anyone? And I mean a reference to the source of the quotes by the individuals rather than third parties claiming that that was said.
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
Absolutely. I actually would welcome a prosperous and independent Scotland on our Northern borders. I see no reason why it should not be a success as long as Westminster is reasonable and realises the long term benefits of supporting a friendly nation that shares a long and generally friendly history and with which we have a great deal in common.
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with letting them start with no debt. The big issue is the currency. Should the BoE guarantee the deposits of a foreign bank, and if so, for how long?
Why would you think we would need what was left of the BofE to guarantee Scotland. Bit presumptious and pompous.
It is bizarre that there is a tone of mockery from England about the idea of Scotland going it alone and creating a currency. That England has gone batshit and is about to hurl itself from the White Cliffs in the sure and certain faith that there is no cliff is just funny.
If the UK was facing a glorious properous future and Scotland was threatening to jump into the unknown then I can see the argument. However, it is the UK about to jump and Scotland trying to stay behind in sanity land.
The SNP will win the election next year promising a referendum vote. The UK will try and refuse. Scotland will hold it anyway. It won't be close. Westminster will accept the inevitable. Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU. England mocks, abuses, insults. And then the newspaper reports of how Scotland is fairing better than rUK...
And down Edinburgh's Royal Mile, there's a triumphant, joyous celebration of civic, European, Scotland's victory against lumpen, bigoted Leaver England. Michel Barnier is guest of honour as he embraces Nicola Sturgeon for the typical gallic kiss on both cheeks. The bells of St Giles ring out - ring- -ring- they seem to get louder and more insistent with each peal - RING- - RING-
RP wakes up and realises it's his alarm.
Can I refer you to mockery? Of my comments: 1. The UK is throwing itself off the cliff 2. The SNP will win the 2021 Holyrood election with a mandate for a referendum 3. The referendum will be held
Those three are reality. Beyond that?
4. Leave will win 60:40 - a projection but based on hardening of the mood tracked by polling 5. Scotland will join the EU. Both sides are up for this, it allows Brussels to flick the Vs at London, Edinburgh gets financial backing 6. rUK will watch in wonder. I don't think no dealers comprehend just how rough this is going to be...
2 is not certain 3 is wrong. Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 whatever the circumstances for the rest of his premiership.
6. Even if Scotland was allowed indyref2 and voted to leave the UK because of No Deal Brexit that means tariffs on all Scottish exports to England and border posts at the Scottish border. 70% of Scottish exports go to England. I don't think Yes supporters comprehend how rough that would be...
2. Nothing is certain in politics. However, your hope of a Unionist grand coalition keeping the nats out of power is a long long shot at best 3. I couldn't give a toss what Shagger has said. He openly lies and contradicts himself anyway so just because he says "I won't put a border down the Irish Sea" doesn't mean he won't then sign a treaty putting a border down the Irish Sea. A Scottish government elected with a clear mandate for a referendum cannot be stopped holding one. Will the army come in and arrest them? Yes it will be unofficial. But when that shows a clear mandate for Independence the UK politically cannot just say no.
As for your comments about the size and heft of the UK, we are about to scale back said heft and cut ourselves off from everyone. As the supplicant in the trading relationships to come you will see just how painful this will be. You can't say "no foreign power can set our laws" and then defend the US congress imposing US food standards and access on the UK so that we have to accept their weevil infested "food". yet you will be on here defending it.
2 If Unionists unite at constituency level anything could happen next year. 3. As Madrid showed in Catalonia a national government can block a nationalist regional government from holding an independence referendum if it wishes. The Tories have a comfortable majority at Westminster and Tory MPs will vote down any indyref2.
I voted Remain and yes I would accept some regulatory alignment for a FTA provided we end free movement and replace it with a points system and do our own trade deals.
However while No Deal would be damaging for the UK economy under 50% of UK exports go to the EU. No Deal followed by Scotland leaving the UK would devastate the Scottish economy as 70% of Scottish exports go to England
Scotland is not Catalonia though. A breakaway region wanting to create a new entity is not the same as a legally recognised and separate nation wanting to dissolve an entity. Glad to see you are supporting the UK's supplication with regards to trade deals though. You telling us all how the US trade deal that gives us far worse terms than our current US trade deal and imposes US standards on the UK is the UK being sovereign and free will be genuinely funny.
Catalonia was an independent republic in the 17th century and Scotland is not an independent nation, it is part of the UK. There can be no indyref without Westminster consent, 2014 was 'once in a generation' and the Tory majority at Westminster will ensure that is respected and vote down indyref2 no matter what the circumstances
Catalonia was not an independent repiublic in the 17th century. Along with Aragon it became a part of the kingdom of Spain in the 15th century. Previously, it had been part of the Kingdom of Aragon.
I'm probably feeling better than the rest of you, as I took Alistair's advice and only read paragraph 2 .
I'm interested where these promises were made:
"this Leave government is stuffed full of men and women who promised that Britain would secure the exact same terms, that it would be the easiest deal in history and that Britain could have its cake and eat it."
Reference, anyone? And I mean a reference to the source of the quotes by the individuals rather than third parties claiming that that was said.
I am already beginning to miss the Covid pandemic. At least it got PB talking about something interesting.
Death, disease and economic misery: hmm. I can do without that level of “interesting”.
BTW I really really would not remove your wife’s stitches yourself. Go to your doctor or A&E if necessary. It may look easy when done by a professional but get it wrong and the wound infected and you’re potentially looking at a whole heap of trouble.
My wife very much has an "I don't want to make a fuss" mentality but the first hint of a problem and I will have her up the road to A&E, no question.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Doesn't this depend somewhat on the type of stitches?
Personally I would go with whatever the Doc advised.
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
Absolutely. I actually would welcome a prosperous and independent Scotland on our Northern borders. I see no reason why it should not be a success as long as Westminster is reasonable and realises the long term benefits of supporting a friendly nation that shares a long and generally friendly history and with which we have a great deal in common.
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with letting them start with no debt. The big issue is the currency. Should the BoE guarantee the deposits of a foreign bank, and if so, for how long?
Why would you think we would need what was left of the BofE to guarantee Scotland. Bit presumptious and pompous.
Wasn't that what Salmond was arguing in 2014? Didn't he want Scotland to have a seat on the BoE MPC?
That Times stuff about Corbyn is completely damning. The 2019 campaign was completely and utterly dysfunctional.
When you put very stupid, highly factional and utterly vindictive people in charge of an election campaign, yoiu end up with the result that Labour got. McDonnell was literally the only one among them who had even the slightest clue. In another life, he could have been a serious politician at the heart of government rather than the only sentinent member of a destructive, clueless cabal.
The other thing from the ST piece worth noting is how much worse for Labour it could have been (and how much better for the LibDems) if Starmer's referendum strategy had not been adopted by McDonnell.
Labour is very lucky Swinson also seemed to sabotage herself.
A few angry LDs on Twitter complaining that Swinson would "let in anybody". As I have responded the party needs to win votes from across the spectrum so bringing in new members not an issue. The Flight of Icarus nature of the Swinson targeting strategy was the problem. It was chaos.
Wasn't the fundamental issue there that Swinson genuinely believed she would become PM?
To be fair to her, they do have a massive long list of seats that they could take next time. The problem though in 2019 was Labour was too unpopular for many voters to vote Lib Dem. Will that be the case with Keir, time will tell
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
Absolutely. I actually would welcome a prosperous and independent Scotland on our Northern borders. I see no reason why it should not be a success as long as Westminster is reasonable and realises the long term benefits of supporting a friendly nation that shares a long and generally friendly history and with which we have a great deal in common.
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with letting them start with no debt. The big issue is the currency. Should the BoE guarantee the deposits of a foreign bank, and if so, for how long?
Why would you think we would need what was left of the BofE to guarantee Scotland. Bit presumptious and pompous.
Wasn't that what Salmond was arguing in 2014? Didn't he want Scotland to have a seat on the BoE MPC?
Yes and we used to go have carts and horses, nobody would even think of something so silly this time. It was the one big mistake Salmond made in my humble opinion. People now just want to vote yes , get out from under these thieving Tories and get back into being part of Europe again.
That Times stuff about Corbyn is completely damning. The 2019 campaign was completely and utterly dysfunctional.
When you put very stupid, highly factional and utterly vindictive people in charge of an election campaign, yoiu end up with the result that Labour got. McDonnell was literally the only one among them who had even the slightest clue. In another life, he could have been a serious politician at the heart of government rather than the only sentinent member of a destructive, clueless cabal.
The other thing from the ST piece worth noting is how much worse for Labour it could have been (and how much better for the LibDems) if Starmer's referendum strategy had not been adopted by McDonnell.
Labour is very lucky Swinson also seemed to sabotage herself.
A few angry LDs on Twitter complaining that Swinson would "let in anybody". As I have responded the party needs to win votes from across the spectrum so bringing in new members not an issue. The Flight of Icarus nature of the Swinson targeting strategy was the problem. It was chaos.
Wasn't the fundamental issue there that Swinson genuinely believed she would become PM?
To be fair to her, they do have a massive long list of seats that they could take next time. The problem though in 2019 was Labour was too unpopular for many voters to vote Lib Dem. Will that be the case with Keir, time will tell
Astonishing stat from Max Hastings’ Vietnam book - the US spent more on military aid to French colonial Vietnam in the decade after the war than they did on all other aid (including the Marshall plan) to France.
Tbf to the Lib Dems, they have not advocated rejoin which is a sensible move.
Unfortunately with Starmer as Labour leader - who I think is very popular with Lib Dem voters, I think at one point he was more popular with them than Labour voters, might be wrong - I don't see any great appeal of the Lib Dems.
Can any Lib Dem advocates educate me on where the party should go and how it attempts to be in a position of influence when presumably it's going to be well known they'll support Starmer and not Johnson anyway?
Surviving 119 overs with 16 wkts aint a walk in the park
It is the psychological element that make's cricket such a brilliant game. The series has gone, two brutal days in the field and your best batsmen in the hutch already. This is when people either stand up and put a really good partnership together to bring some hope or fold. So far Pakistan look beaten but someone may hold their hand up yet.
This is why I'm glad England didn't declare at around 450 when some Commentators and people here were saying it should have been done already. Yes 450 would probably be enough, but it would leave Pakistan with a glimmer of hope.
583 dec though, with Pakistan needing a victory not a draw to even draw the series . . . their batsmen now are going out knowing its hopeless. It is psychologically crushing.
To be fair our garden has played a huge role for us this year, especially for my good lady who has busied herself throughout in and out of the greenhouse planting all kinds of species
ST shows that without Starmer's second referendum policy, Labour would have won 160 seats.
Starmer saved Labour.
It's possible Labour could have gone down to 160-170 seats as AndyJS has said before. Saying the Tories would win Vauxhall was 100% insane though which casts major doubt on a lot of this stuff.
I was always very dubious of the polling and modelling throughout 2019 and always expected Labour and the Tories to get 40% and at least 30% respectively. I also never seriously expected the LDs to get more than 15% and 30 seats.
I wrongly predicted a 1992/2015 type result which I accept I got wrong.
Trump news - live: President's sister secretly recorded calling him liar with 'no principles' as TikTok threatens to sue over US ban 'All he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. None,' says US president's sister
To be fair our garden has played a huge role for us this year, especially for my good lady who has busied herself throughout in and out of the greenhouse planting all kinds of species
Nothing better than sitting out in your garden , good for the soul. Unfortunately our weather has not been so nice since end June, far too much rain and horrible damp days, a typical July mind you and drifted into August with just sporadic nice days. Only upside is it is very green.
Tik Tok has said it will file a lawsuit against the Trump administration after the president’s attempts to block the Chinese-owned app from America.
A lawsuit, which will accuse the White House of denying the firm due process when Donald Trump issued an executive order earlier in August, is expected to be filed in the coming week.
Mr Trump's 6 August executive order bars transactions with TikTok's parent company ByteDance from mid-September
I think a lot of people are forgetting one of the major reasons we voted to Leave was the obstinance of the EU. Events are confirming those fears
You are right, I have absolutely no recollection on "obstinacy" ever being mentioned in 2016. I do remember being told that a free trade deal would be easy, that of course we would retain single market access, and that we hold all the cards. If only Leavers were as talented at formulating a plan or negotiating as they are at rewriting history.
Obstinacy was a huge factor even if it wasn’t described in those terms.
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
Wouldn't it be better to discuss the BBC and its relentless agenda of diversity and equality, to the point that they talk of little else.
The BBC is now reduced to asking why there has only been been on person of colour as President of the US. If only Barak Obama had failed, the BBC could have had a field day.
Yours disgruntled and now ITV news watcher .
Get rid of the license fee. Let those who want the BBC pay for it. I would happily pay for BBC4.
The Telegraph reports on government plans to fix the BBC.
Speaking to the Telegraph on Saturday, a Government source said: “There is a considerable concern around impartiality and objectivity. It’s not that the BBC is left-wing and Labour supporting, it clearly isn’t.
“But lots of people think its news programmes seem only to be interested in picking holes in the Government or digging up embarrassing quotes.
“They are far less interested in listening to what ministers have to say than trying to trip them up in a way that is not entirely relevant.
That is the problem with the BBC. It is not pro-Labour but it does question the government. Lèse-majesté, as they say in the EU.
Not exactly - the BBC should be aiming to educate, inform and entertain (haven’t checked the precise quote but that’s the gist).
They are chasing headlines and scandal - they are focused on “entertain” to the detriment of the others.
If they want to be just “entertain” that’s fine. It’s a commercial business model and they should be funded as such. If they want a license fee model they need to deliver something which probably doesn’t completely stack up commercially but is worth of subsidy.
I think a lot of people are forgetting one of the major reasons we voted to Leave was the obstinance of the EU. Events are confirming those fears
You are right, I have absolutely no recollection on "obstinacy" ever being mentioned in 2016. I do remember being told that a free trade deal would be easy, that of course we would retain single market access, and that we hold all the cards. If only Leavers were as talented at formulating a plan or negotiating as they are at rewriting history.
Obstinacy was a huge factor even if it wasn’t described in those terms.
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
It had 27 other countries thoughts and feelings to consider apart from a truculent England.
There are too many “independent” observers of Scexit looking for problems and not proffering solutions. Scotland should just pass an Act of Parliament to rebase all contracts to groats on a 1-1 basis and let the currency slide. A form of sovereign default but get it out the way at the start and go from there, with an independent monetary policy (and printing press), competitive exchange rate and lower debt burden.
Everything else risks a bigger crisis or perpetual malaise.
Which, by the way, is what every other country becoming independent has done.
It's a tonne of hassle. But it's not terminal.
It’s Scottish domestic mortgages that will be the problem. I suspect that they will have to redenominate the debts and then find a mechanism to compensate the banks at a central level otherwise it could be seriously messy.
I think a lot of people are forgetting one of the major reasons we voted to Leave was the obstinance of the EU. Events are confirming those fears
You are right, I have absolutely no recollection on "obstinacy" ever being mentioned in 2016. I do remember being told that a free trade deal would be easy, that of course we would retain single market access, and that we hold all the cards. If only Leavers were as talented at formulating a plan or negotiating as they are at rewriting history.
Obstinacy was a huge factor even if it wasn’t described in those terms.
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
It had 27 other countries thoughts and feelings to consider apart from a truculent England.
The implication of that post is it paid no attention to Scotland...
Reading through the Government’s Brexit planning checklist, it’s hard to find anything positive to cling to. It’s just one administrative hassle after another.
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
Without wishing to get into pejorative discussions about whether the UK is "great" or not, but certainly the second part of your statement there is pretty much exactly what I think about Scotland with the UK.
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
Without wishing to get into pejorative discussions about whether the UK is "great" or not, but certainly the second part of your statement there is pretty much exactly what I think about Scotland with the UK.
I think that's a valid enough perspective, and really the only reason that a small nation should aim to become independent. But it's a vanishingly small perspective in your movement imo - quaint and eccentric even. Scotland is more stodgily socialist, statist and risk averse than the UK in its political outlook these days. If you're looking for radicalism and reform, the UK is the place to look.
Wouldn't it be better to discuss the BBC and its relentless agenda of diversity and equality, to the point that they talk of little else.
The BBC is now reduced to asking why there has only been been on person of colour as President of the US. If only Barak Obama had failed, the BBC could have had a field day.
Yours disgruntled and now ITV news watcher .
Get rid of the license fee. Let those who want the BBC pay for it. I would happily pay for BBC4.
Isn’t BBC4 one of the channels they want to get rid of?
We could discuss the National Trust’s apparent desire to move away from being a cultural institution, get rid of all its specialist curators and put much of its furniture and paintings into storage so that it can flog us “experiences”. Given that these houses and their contents were gifted in lieu of inheritance task on the basis that they would be available to the public, I do wonder how this proposal is consistent with the original bequests or its charitable purposes.
Tbf to the Lib Dems, they have not advocated rejoin which is a sensible move.
Unfortunately with Starmer as Labour leader - who I think is very popular with Lib Dem voters, I think at one point he was more popular with them than Labour voters, might be wrong - I don't see any great appeal of the Lib Dems.
Can any Lib Dem advocates educate me on where the party should go and how it attempts to be in a position of influence when presumably it's going to be well known they'll support Starmer and not Johnson anyway?
That depends on who becomes leader. Layla Moran has shown through the campaign that she isn't as lightweight as she looked at the start. If she plans to tack to the left of Labour the perhaps there is the making of a progressive alliance. Perhaps not
I voted for Ed Davey. Cool headed competence seems like a decent bet at the moment. But whomever wins the issue is probably the Labour activists who barely want to work with each other never mind anyone else.
Mr. G, the currency question is a pretty important one, to be fair.
Mr. Pete, Cameron was right not to lower the voting age, which would've been gerrymandering the electorate to his advantage.
You're right about his complacency, however. Having the official Leave campaign put together a basic prospectus would've been rather sensible, and the absence of it was a bit odd.
Yes MD it is but it is very simple as well as has been explained many times, they either peg to Euro ( given rUK will supposedly be hostile according to experts on here) for a spell or just start their own currency, just as every other country in the world does. It is not rocket science.
Indeed it’s not. The process will be a bit uncomfortable and messy, though.
I think the last 4 years (if not longer) have rather inoculated us against uncomfortable and messy.
GPs are fucking useless part 26 - my dad got a text from the GP surgery, he needs a regular BP check up, fine. Text as follows "due to exceptional virus containment measures we are currently not taking any in person appointments, however, we still need to test your BP, could you please purchase a BP machine from a pharmacy, take a measurement and respond to this message with the reading".
Honestly, what the fuck is going on with the NHS. This is absolutely fucking disgraceful, they are now using the virus as an excuse to just not do any work. I might start a new boo the NHS at 8pm on Thursday trend.
I've told him to contact the Daily Mail with the text and let them write about it.
|A health service that doesn;t want patients. A school system that doesn;t want pupils.
And a government that doesn´t want citizens.
You can't accuse this Government of acting purely to court votes....
They like votes, I think. But today´s Conservatives are not much bothered about voters - the people behind the votes.
Off topic, but the betting markets on Trump versus the news flow are genuinely bizarre.
I was reading this week-end's poll reporting from Newsweek. Their numbers show Biden a street ahead. A street ahead. IN the Swing states.
Newsweek's article reporting these numbers was almost apologetic. Like Henry V reading the casualty numbers after Agincourt in the Shakespeare play.
The only hope for Trump is that there a significant number of shy GOPpers. People so embarassed by Trump that they dare not speak his name yet will vote for him anyway. Otherwise he is toast. However bad his numbers are now, they're about to get worse as he spends every night of the GOP convention raving into the cameras about how popular he is.
Its also interesting that when people ask non=partisan questions they get different replies. Newsweek also polled black people and 80% said they want police funding to at least stay at the same level as it is, or even increase.
can the well of shy Trump voters, or people who simply won;t turn out for the dems, be that deep?
Surely not. But its a fascinating question.
And here's another question
If you are a pollster employed by an organisation for whom one side is a totally hated and completely abhorred anathema, are you really going to spring a poll showing that guy doing well?
One of the closest pollsters on the popular vote in 2016 was Rasmussen, who had Hillary ahead by 2% in their final poll, their last poll has it Biden 48% and Trump 44% and 4% undecided.
Trafalgar group also got Michigan and Pennsylvania right in 2016 and has key state polls much closer
So what?
You keep on making the unstated assumption that whoever was closest last time would necessarily be closest this time.
They may be. They may well not be.
Looking at the past 9 UK General elections:
2019: Opinium were closest 2017: A tie between Survation and Kantar 2015: The least said the best. All published polls were wrong* (if you don't publish a poll, you don't get credit for it). The two least bad were ComRes and Opinium 2010: ICM were closest 2005: NOP were spot on. 2001: YouGov were closest 1997: ICM were closest 1992: All were wrong** (out of published polls). Gallup were the least worst published poll. 1987: Tie between MORI and Harris
* Survation claimed an unpublished poll that was fairly accurate * * Harris claimed an unpublished poll that was fairly accurate
What out of that record makes you think that whoever was closest (or least wrong) last time is certain to be right next time?
GPs are fucking useless part 26 - my dad got a text from the GP surgery, he needs a regular BP check up, fine. Text as follows "due to exceptional virus containment measures we are currently not taking any in person appointments, however, we still need to test your BP, could you please purchase a BP machine from a pharmacy, take a measurement and respond to this message with the reading".
Honestly, what the fuck is going on with the NHS. This is absolutely fucking disgraceful, they are now using the virus as an excuse to just not do any work. I might start a new boo the NHS at 8pm on Thursday trend.
I've told him to contact the Daily Mail with the text and let them write about it.
|A health service that doesn;t want patients. A school system that doesn;t want pupilms.
And a government that doesn´t want citizens.
You can't accuse this Government of acting purely to court votes....
They like votes, I think. But today´s Conservatives are not much bothered about voters - the people behind the votes.
If that's true why did they get millions more voters to back them than any other party - and why despite it being midterm and governments typically being behind in the polls by this stage normally - do millions more voters still back them according to the polls?
It is bizarre that there is a tone of mockery from England about the idea of Scotland going it alone and creating a currency. That England has gone batshit and is about to hurl itself from the White Cliffs in the sure and certain faith that there is no cliff is just funny.
If the UK was facing a glorious properous future and Scotland was threatening to jump into the unknown then I can see the argument. However, it is the UK about to jump and Scotland trying to stay behind in sanity land.
The SNP will win the election next year promising a referendum vote. The UK will try and refuse. Scotland will hold it anyway. It won't be close. Westminster will accept the inevitable. Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU. England mocks, abuses, insults. And then the newspaper reports of how Scotland is fairing better than rUK...
And down Edinburgh's Royal Mile, there's a triumphant, joyous celebration of civic, European, Scotland's victory against lumpen, bigoted Leaver England. Michel Barnier is guest of honour as he embraces Nicola Sturgeon for the typical gallic kiss on both cheeks. The bells of St Giles ring out - ring- -ring- they seem to get louder and more insistent with each peal - RING- - RING-
RP wakes up and realises it's his alarm.
Can I refer you to mockery? Of my comments: 1. The UK is throwing itself off the cliff 2. The SNP will win the 2021 Holyrood election with a mandate for a referendum 3. The referendum will be held
Those three are reality. Beyond that?
4. Leave will win 60:40 - a projection but based on hardening of the mood tracked by polling 5. Scotland will join the EU. Both sides are up for this, it allows Brussels to flick the Vs at London, Edinburgh gets financial backing 6. rUK will watch in wonder. I don't think no dealers comprehend just how rough this is going to be...
He furiously presses snooze, hoping for just five minutes more back in IScotland. Sadly it's not the same. Nicola Sturgeon now has an unaccountably long neck and keeps nibbling on high branches. And why does the Royal Mile now look like Slough? Cruel cruel world. He gets up and consoles himself with the thought that he'll be particularly beastly on PB today. Those Leaver fools are going to get it big time.
Happily there is no need to debate Brexit any more - we have already left. Nor is there any need to debate the impact of us exiting transition without a deal and ripping up every trade deal we have. The reason that no other country has contemplated such a thing is self-evident. At least for most people.
I'm happy to debate all those things at an appropriate time - I am just teasing your Scotland-based Brexit revenge fantasy.
I'm a unionist - I have no desire for Scottish independence. However I am also a pragmatist. If Scotland wants to dissolve the Union backed by democratic mandate then we cannot stop them. Whats more, Scotland as a small nation in the EU will do better than the UK a small nation alone in the world. Sounds like you are more optimistic about the benefits of no deal tear up everything - I hope you are right. Just that for you to be right all the people who know what they are talking about have to be wrong...
The UK is not a small nation, it is in the top 10 world economies, a G7 and G20 and UN security council permanent member, it is a medium sized nation at most.
It is bizarre that there is a tone of mockery from England about the idea of Scotland going it alone and creating a currency. That England has gone batshit and is about to hurl itself from the White Cliffs in the sure and certain faith that there is no cliff is just funny.
If the UK was facing a glorious properous future and Scotland was threatening to jump into the unknown then I can see the argument. However, it is the UK about to jump and Scotland trying to stay behind in sanity land.
The SNP will win the election next year promising a referendum vote. The UK will try and refuse. Scotland will hold it anyway. It won't be close. Westminster will accept the inevitable. Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU. England mocks, abuses, insults. And then the newspaper reports of how Scotland is fairing better than rUK...
And down Edinburgh's Royal Mile, there's a triumphant, joyous celebration of civic, European, Scotland's victory against lumpen, bigoted Leaver England. Michel Barnier is guest of honour as he embraces Nicola Sturgeon for the typical gallic kiss on both cheeks. The bells of St Giles ring out - ring- -ring- they seem to get louder and more insistent with each peal - RING- - RING-
RP wakes up and realises it's his alarm.
Can I refer you to mockery? Of my comments: 1. The UK is throwing itself off the cliff 2. The SNP will win the 2021 Holyrood election with a mandate for a referendum 3. The referendum will be held
Those three are reality. Beyond that?
4. Leave will win 60:40 - a projection but based on hardening of the mood tracked by polling 5. Scotland will join the EU. Both sides are up for this, it allows Brussels to flick the Vs at London, Edinburgh gets financial backing 6. rUK will watch in wonder. I don't think no dealers comprehend just how rough this is going to be...
He furiously presses snooze, hoping for just five minutes more back in IScotland. Sadly it's not the same. Nicola Sturgeon now has an unaccountably long neck and keeps nibbling on high branches. And why does the Royal Mile now look like Slough? Cruel cruel world. He gets up and consoles himself with the thought that he'll be particularly beastly on PB today. Those Leaver fools are going to get it big time.
Happily there is no need to debate Brexit any more - we have already left. Nor is there any need to debate the impact of us exiting transition without a deal and ripping up every trade deal we have. The reason that no other country has contemplated such a thing is self-evident. At least for most people.
I'm happy to debate all those things at an appropriate time - I am just teasing your Scotland-based Brexit revenge fantasy.
I'm a unionist - I have no desire for Scottish independence. However I am also a pragmatist. If Scotland wants to dissolve the Union backed by democratic mandate then we cannot stop them. Whats more, Scotland as a small nation in the EU will do better than the UK a small nation alone in the world. Sounds like you are more optimistic about the benefits of no deal tear up everything - I hope you are right. Just that for you to be right all the people who know what they are talking about have to be wrong...
The UK is not a small nation, it is in the top 10 world economies, a G7 and G20 and UN security council permanent member, it is a medium sized nation at most.
'How dare you, I am NOT hung like a sparrow!!!'
Loving that last. Impotent outrage when an answer is not available .
I think a lot of people are forgetting one of the major reasons we voted to Leave was the obstinance of the EU. Events are confirming those fears
You are right, I have absolutely no recollection on "obstinacy" ever being mentioned in 2016. I do remember being told that a free trade deal would be easy, that of course we would retain single market access, and that we hold all the cards. If only Leavers were as talented at formulating a plan or negotiating as they are at rewriting history.
Obstinacy was a huge factor even if it wasn’t described in those terms.
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
It had 27 other countries thoughts and feelings to consider apart from a truculent England.
The English have no experience of engaging with the world except on their own terms. You'd have thought they would have figured out by now that the British Empire was over and they can't force the world to dance to their tune, but I guess they're slow learners. Brexit might be a useful part of their education, it's just a shame that the Scots have to be dragged through it with them.
It is bizarre that there is a tone of mockery from England about the idea of Scotland going it alone and creating a currency. That England has gone batshit and is about to hurl itself from the White Cliffs in the sure and certain faith that there is no cliff is just funny.
If the UK was facing a glorious properous future and Scotland was threatening to jump into the unknown then I can see the argument. However, it is the UK about to jump and Scotland trying to stay behind in sanity land.
The SNP will win the election next year promising a referendum vote. The UK will try and refuse. Scotland will hold it anyway. It won't be close. Westminster will accept the inevitable. Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU. England mocks, abuses, insults. And then the newspaper reports of how Scotland is fairing better than rUK...
And down Edinburgh's Royal Mile, there's a triumphant, joyous celebration of civic, European, Scotland's victory against lumpen, bigoted Leaver England. Michel Barnier is guest of honour as he embraces Nicola Sturgeon for the typical gallic kiss on both cheeks. The bells of St Giles ring out - ring- -ring- they seem to get louder and more insistent with each peal - RING- - RING-
RP wakes up and realises it's his alarm.
Can I refer you to mockery? Of my comments: 1. The UK is throwing itself off the cliff 2. The SNP will win the 2021 Holyrood election with a mandate for a referendum 3. The referendum will be held
Those three are reality. Beyond that?
4. Leave will win 60:40 - a projection but based on hardening of the mood tracked by polling 5. Scotland will join the EU. Both sides are up for this, it allows Brussels to flick the Vs at London, Edinburgh gets financial backing 6. rUK will watch in wonder. I don't think no dealers comprehend just how rough this is going to be...
Any referendum would be boycotted by No voters and be deprived of legitimacy. Turnout would probably be below 50%.
I'm probably feeling better than the rest of you, as I took Alistair's advice and only read paragraph 2 .
I'm interested where these promises were made:
"this Leave government is stuffed full of men and women who promised that Britain would secure the exact same terms, that it would be the easiest deal in history and that Britain could have its cake and eat it."
Reference, anyone? And I mean a reference to the source of the quotes by the individuals rather than third parties claiming that that was said.
GPs are fucking useless part 26 - my dad got a text from the GP surgery, he needs a regular BP check up, fine. Text as follows "due to exceptional virus containment measures we are currently not taking any in person appointments, however, we still need to test your BP, could you please purchase a BP machine from a pharmacy, take a measurement and respond to this message with the reading".
Honestly, what the fuck is going on with the NHS. This is absolutely fucking disgraceful, they are now using the virus as an excuse to just not do any work. I might start a new boo the NHS at 8pm on Thursday trend.
I've told him to contact the Daily Mail with the text and let them write about it.
|A health service that doesn;t want patients. A school system that doesn;t want pupilms.
And a government that doesn´t want citizens.
You can't accuse this Government of acting purely to court votes....
They like votes, I think. But today´s Conservatives are not much bothered about voters - the people behind the votes.
If that's true why did they get millions more voters to back them than any other party - and why despite it being midterm and governments typically being behind in the polls by this stage normally - do millions more voters still back them according to the polls?
That was what I was saying, Mr Thompson. They like votes, they like seeming to do well in opinion polls, but they are not much bothered by the long-term impact on the lives of real people.
And of course they "did well" at the last election - their main opponent was Jeremy Corbyn, who they promoted well beyond anything reasonable in order to panic people into voting for the lazy, useless Johnson as the alternative. Plus they were helped by a broken voting system, and oodles of Russian support.
I have lots more questions - this week I need to know about renovating Fuschias, as I've discovered what may become a very nice one in a huge pot behind the bamboo. Suspect it may want a good pruning in the early autumn.
I think a lot of people are forgetting one of the major reasons we voted to Leave was the obstinance of the EU. Events are confirming those fears
You are right, I have absolutely no recollection on "obstinacy" ever being mentioned in 2016. I do remember being told that a free trade deal would be easy, that of course we would retain single market access, and that we hold all the cards. If only Leavers were as talented at formulating a plan or negotiating as they are at rewriting history.
Obstinacy was a huge factor even if it wasn’t described in those terms.
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
It had 27 other countries thoughts and feelings to consider apart from a truculent England.
The English have no experience of engaging with the world except on their own terms. You'd have thought they would have figured out by now that the British Empire was over and they can't force the world to dance to their tune, but I guess they're slow learners. Brexit might be a useful part of their education, it's just a shame that the Scots have to be dragged through it with them.
The best way to engage with the world is to put your own best feet forward on your own terms.
Engaging on other people's terms just gets them to walk all over you. The English are one of the world's most successful countries for the past thousand years and still today precisely because we don't do that.
Comments
30 - 4
Would-be Arsonist: I propose to set fire to this building. We can all enjoy the pretty spectacle of the flickering flames and the flashing blue lights, and I shall rescue someone and be a hero and be on telly and everything.
Officious Bystander: In reality, you will cause massive death and suffering, will be found out and will go to prison for a very long time.
WbA: Hmmm, I believe you are probably right.
[thinks].
Nevertheless, I MUST HONOUR MY DECISION TO SET FIRE TO THIS BUILDING.
Surviving 119 overs with 16 wkts aint a walk in the park
Trafalgar certainly did better at the state level than many pollsters.
And I don't really relish death and economic misery, its just that the tedium of thread after thread about Brexit really doesn't entice me.
Nevada would not have made a difference even if Trump had won it if Hillary had held the other Obama states Trump won.
However all that means is you just discount the Trafalgar group Nevada polls this year and focus on their Michigan, Pennsylvania and Florida polls
We could talk about Corbyn’s appalling GE campaign instead?
I would rather the UK stay together but, if Scottish people want to be independent, I do not understand the whole idea of putting as many barriers as possible in front of them to stop independence.
What seems to be forgotten in the whole "Scotland is not a nation" argument is that Scotland was a nation and was for many hundreds of years. Its Parliament voted to join England and Wales in the Act of Union. As many on here are keen of saying, Parliament cannot bind its successors and the same argument goes for its people. If Scotland wants to reverse the Act of Union and exit then it should do so. We should offer them best wishes and aim for an amicable agreement.
And is there anything else really to be said about Corbyn (other than sorry from those who thought he was a good idea)?
However if Scotland was allowed an indyref2 after a No Deal Brexit then tariffs on Scottish exports to the UK and border posts across the Scottish border are inevitable if it then voted to leave the UK and rejoin the EU
If I didn’t live so close to the city I’d be screwed.
Corbyn demanding his right to be consulted on the campaign that Corbyn cultists were pursuing is brilliant. Told by their own pollsters they'd be reduced to 138 MPs he presses on anyway to be ignored by his own cult. Yet the cult denounce the staffers who actually gained seats in 2017!
As for the Tom Watson nearly defecting to the LibDems story, that would have been entertaining...
The other thing from the ST piece worth noting is how much worse for Labour it could have been (and how much better for the LibDems) if Starmer's referendum strategy had not been adopted by McDonnell.
"It was bound to catch fire anyway sooner or later" is not a mitigation, never mind a defence.
At least ours is, and that's what I read about elsewhere.
Loyalty out of fear collapses immediately the reason for the fear goes.
I'm interested where these promises were made:
"this Leave government is stuffed full of men and women who promised that Britain would secure the exact same terms, that it would be the easiest deal in history and that Britain could have its cake and eat it."
Reference, anyone? And I mean a reference to the source of the quotes by the individuals rather than third parties claiming that that was said.
Cheers
If you google those quotes you’ll find plenty of sources for them.
Personally I would go with whatever the Doc advised.
To be fair to her, they do have a massive long list of seats that they could take next time. The problem though in 2019 was Labour was too unpopular for many voters to vote Lib Dem. Will that be the case with Keir, time will tell
Starmer saved Labour.
It seems to me a profound insight that accurately sums up the situation.
It states 138 seats would have been Labour’s worst result since 1918.
But in 1931 Labour won only 52 seats.
Even if Macdonald’s National Labour is included that only pushes the figure to 65.
Bad news: he hasn't disappeared yet.
Did he take advice from Jeremy Corbyn?
Unfortunately with Starmer as Labour leader - who I think is very popular with Lib Dem voters, I think at one point he was more popular with them than Labour voters, might be wrong - I don't see any great appeal of the Lib Dems.
Can any Lib Dem advocates educate me on where the party should go and how it attempts to be in a position of influence when presumably it's going to be well known they'll support Starmer and not Johnson anyway?
https://twitter.com/cyclefree2/status/1297492993025421315?s=21
583 dec though, with Pakistan needing a victory not a draw to even draw the series . . . their batsmen now are going out knowing its hopeless. It is psychologically crushing.
https://twitter.com/simonk_133/status/1297491502067851264
I was always very dubious of the polling and modelling throughout 2019 and always expected Labour and the Tories to get 40% and at least 30% respectively. I also never seriously expected the LDs to get more than 15% and 30 seats.
I wrongly predicted a 1992/2015 type result which I accept I got wrong.
'All he wants to do is appeal to his base. He has no principles. None. None,' says US president's sister
Tik Tok has said it will file a lawsuit against the Trump administration after the president’s attempts to block the Chinese-owned app from America.
A lawsuit, which will accuse the White House of denying the firm due process when Donald Trump issued an executive order earlier in August, is expected to be filed in the coming week.
Mr Trump's 6 August executive order bars transactions with TikTok's parent company ByteDance from mid-September
It was my view certainly - the EU had the potential to be great, but was dead set on a path that was increasingly divergent from one that suited us and refused to countenance reform
The BBC is now reduced to asking why there has only been been on person of colour as President of the US. If only Barak Obama had failed, the BBC could have had a field day.
Yours disgruntled and now ITV news watcher .
Get rid of the license fee. Let those who want the BBC pay for it. I would happily pay for BBC4.
They are chasing headlines and scandal - they are focused on “entertain” to the detriment of the others.
If they want to be just “entertain” that’s fine. It’s a commercial business model and they should be funded as such. If they want a license fee model they need to deliver something which probably doesn’t completely stack up commercially but is worth of subsidy.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/08/23/just-much-political-capital-can-johnson-risk-eu-trade-deal/
We could discuss the National Trust’s apparent desire to move away from being a cultural institution, get rid of all its specialist curators and put much of its furniture and paintings into storage so that it can flog us “experiences”. Given that these houses and their contents were gifted in lieu of inheritance task on the basis that they would be available to the public, I do wonder how this proposal is consistent with the original bequests or its charitable purposes.
I voted for Ed Davey. Cool headed competence seems like a decent bet at the moment. But whomever wins the issue is probably the Labour activists who barely want to work with each other never mind anyone else.
You keep on making the unstated assumption that whoever was closest last time would necessarily be closest this time.
They may be. They may well not be.
Looking at the past 9 UK General elections:
2019: Opinium were closest
2017: A tie between Survation and Kantar
2015: The least said the best. All published polls were wrong* (if you don't publish a poll, you don't get credit for it). The two least bad were ComRes and Opinium
2010: ICM were closest
2005: NOP were spot on.
2001: YouGov were closest
1997: ICM were closest
1992: All were wrong** (out of published polls). Gallup were the least worst published poll.
1987: Tie between MORI and Harris
* Survation claimed an unpublished poll that was fairly accurate
* * Harris claimed an unpublished poll that was fairly accurate
What out of that record makes you think that whoever was closest (or least wrong) last time is certain to be right next time?
Being a sore loser doesn't make your claims true.
Headline - 1
Seven days - 1
Yesterday - 0
And of course they "did well" at the last election - their main opponent was Jeremy Corbyn, who they promoted well beyond anything reasonable in order to panic people into voting for the lazy, useless Johnson as the alternative. Plus they were helped by a broken voting system, and oodles of Russian support.
I have lots more questions - this week I need to know about renovating Fuschias, as I've discovered what may become a very nice one in a huge pot behind the bamboo. Suspect it may want a good pruning in the early autumn.
Gardening corner question #17.
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1297509466099929088
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1297509713396092928
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1297515724215390208
Engaging on other people's terms just gets them to walk all over you. The English are one of the world's most successful countries for the past thousand years and still today precisely because we don't do that.