Undefined discussion subject.

TimT said:

HYUFD said:

TimT said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

malcolm, I think there are a fair few on this site who believe firmly in self-determination. I for one think it silly for Westminster to talk about not allowing another referendum when the SNP is so dominant in Scotland and is calling for one. And even without neighbourly goodwill, it would simply be in England's self-interest to have a prosperous and happy Scotland on its doorstep post independence.

If Scotland was granted indyref2 and voted Yes London would correctly treat Edinburgh in as tough a manner as Brussels has treated London, no favours and as a foreign power

Why, and why would that be correct rather than idiotic?

As it would be a foreign power and England would correctly put its own interests first in any trade negotiations and if Scotland left to join the EU because of No Deal it would have to accept that would mean tariffs put on Scottish exports to England

Ave_it said:

My mobile is being weighed down by Scotland. Please get rid of it

I could suggest where you could stick it

Georgia had breached 5000 test confirmed Covid deaths - as ever the real figure will be higher. Will now easily be into a run of days of 50%+ excess deaths from Covid.

Nigelb said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

I don’t know about most, malcolm. Certainly the loudest voices.

I don’t want to see Scottish independence, either, but that is no reason to deny another referendum, if that’s the democratic will of Scotland. Nor is it reason to seek anything but a cooperative relationship, should Scotland become independent.

Most was a bit over the top Nigel, but at least a very vocal minority as you say.

malcolmg said:

TimT said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

malcolm, I think there are a fair few on this site who believe firmly in self-determination. I for one think it silly for Westminster to talk about not allowing another referendum when the SNP is so dominant in Scotland and is calling for one. And even without neighbourly goodwill, it would simply be in England's self-interest to have a prosperous and happy Scotland on its doorstep post independence.

Tim, I agree there are many sensible intelligent people on here that would wish us well, but a fair rump who only harbour ill wishes unfortunately, it is an extremely sad fact.

Before the Act of Union England fought more wars against Scotland than any other nation bar France, after a likely bitter divorce do not expect a love in

HYUFD said:

malcolmg said:

TimT said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

malcolm, I think there are a fair few on this site who believe firmly in self-determination. I for one think it silly for Westminster to talk about not allowing another referendum when the SNP is so dominant in Scotland and is calling for one. And even without neighbourly goodwill, it would simply be in England's self-interest to have a prosperous and happy Scotland on its doorstep post independence.

Tim, I agree there are many sensible intelligent people on here that would wish us well, but a fair rump who only harbour ill wishes unfortunately, it is an extremely sad fact.

Before the Act of Union England fought more wars against Scotland than any other nation bar France, after a likely bitter divorce do not expect a love in

Do you think we'll wage war against France too after Brexit?

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

malcolmg said:

TimT said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

malcolm, I think there are a fair few on this site who believe firmly in self-determination. I for one think it silly for Westminster to talk about not allowing another referendum when the SNP is so dominant in Scotland and is calling for one. And even without neighbourly goodwill, it would simply be in England's self-interest to have a prosperous and happy Scotland on its doorstep post independence.

Tim, I agree there are many sensible intelligent people on here that would wish us well, but a fair rump who only harbour ill wishes unfortunately, it is an extremely sad fact.

Before the Act of Union England fought more wars against Scotland than any other nation bar France, after a likely bitter divorce do not expect a love in

Do you think we'll wage war against France too after Brexit?

Well given the current turn of events who knows, Barnier is French of course (though as I have Huguenot ancestry so partly am I)

malcolmg said:

Ave_it said:

My mobile is being weighed down by Scotland. Please get rid of it

I could suggest where you could stick it

I'm coming up to Ayr on Monday to visit my investment properties. I will bring you your handout from London when I am there

HYUFD said:

TimT said:

HYUFD said:

TimT said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

malcolm, I think there are a fair few on this site who believe firmly in self-determination. I for one think it silly for Westminster to talk about not allowing another referendum when the SNP is so dominant in Scotland and is calling for one. And even without neighbourly goodwill, it would simply be in England's self-interest to have a prosperous and happy Scotland on its doorstep post independence.

If Scotland was granted indyref2 and voted Yes London would correctly treat Edinburgh in as tough a manner as Brussels has treated London, no favours and as a foreign power

Why, and why would that be correct rather than idiotic?

As it would be a foreign power and England would correctly put its own interests first in any trade negotiations and if Scotland left to join the EU because of No Deal it would have to accept that would mean tariffs put on Scottish exports to England

Why would it be in our benefit to pay more for whisky?

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

TimT said:

HYUFD said:

TimT said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

malcolm, I think there are a fair few on this site who believe firmly in self-determination. I for one think it silly for Westminster to talk about not allowing another referendum when the SNP is so dominant in Scotland and is calling for one. And even without neighbourly goodwill, it would simply be in England's self-interest to have a prosperous and happy Scotland on its doorstep post independence.

If Scotland was granted indyref2 and voted Yes London would correctly treat Edinburgh in as tough a manner as Brussels has treated London, no favours and as a foreign power

Why, and why would that be correct rather than idiotic?

As it would be a foreign power and England would correctly put its own interests first in any trade negotiations and if Scotland left to join the EU because of No Deal it would have to accept that would mean tariffs put on Scottish exports to England

Why would it be in our benefit to pay more for whisky?

We have our own developing whisky industry

https://www.englishwhisky.co.uk/

HYUFD said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

SandyRentool said:

Gallowgate said:

Casino_Royale said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Casino_Royale said:

Philip_Thompson said:

rcs1000 said:

rottenborough said:

rcs1000 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/JohnStuartWilso/status/1297136849513615361?s=20

Number (3) is possible, but difficult. And it would require the support of the IMF and the World Bank.

Is there not a way around #2?

Actually, a mix of two and three is probably the easiest option of all for an independent Scotland. The Scottish Groat would be pegged one-to-one with the Euro, and the ECB (on the basis that Scotland would be joining the EU in due course) could help support the peg.

Couldn't Scotland simply jump straight to #2?

It takes unanimity to join the EU and it takes unanimity to amend the EU treaties (including the single currency rules).

So with the unique nature of Scotland leaving the UK and rejoining the EU could it not simply seek to jump straight from Britain & the pound to ending a transition period immediately in the EU & the Euro?

That would take unanimous agreement but so does simply joining in the first place. And if the EU decides it wants to facilitate Scottish membership of the EU (and inflict a bloody nose upon the UK) they could simply agree to it could they not?

Spain.

If the referendum isn't wildcat and is endorsed by the UK Parliament then I don't think Spain will have a problem with it. Spain will have a problem giving succour to a wildcat referendum.

Spain won't want to make it easy and painless for Scotland to join.

Sounds like project fear to me.

That's all they've got. There is no positive vision of Union to sell to the people of Scotland.

Or Yorkshire, for that matter.

It worked in 2014.

It also worked in Quebec in 1995 where it was not love of Canada which saw a 51% No vote but companies starting to move out and fear of the economic damage with the carrot of devomax.

It almost worked in 2016, most of the 48% like me did not vote Remain out of any love of the EU but because we feared the economic damage of leaving it

And yet you are now the biggest pompom waver for Bozo's rock-hard no-deal Brexit. Funny old world.

No I still would prefer a deal but I also respected the will of the people to leave the EU

Which is why you are and will forever be a tory in name only. No true Conservative would "respect the will of the people" as expressed in something as unBritish and as profoundly incompatible with the constitution as a referendum. They might think for other reasons that leaving the EU was a good thing and that the Crown in Parliament should cause it to happen, but that's not the point.

Well they also won a majority in Parliament to deliver Brexit last year and it was delivered.

Sure, a majority to enact a referendum result.

I am not trolling when I say that you are no conservative, it is just the case. What scuppers you is the quite likely hypothetical case of a referendum on abolishing the monarchy. If you would respect the will of the people on that you are no tory, and if you wouldn't then why do you have to on brexit?

As a bonus point you are also the most virulent anti-unionist posting on this site, because no one could seriously support a union when they loathed a member of it as much as you hate Scotland. Subjugationist, perhaps.

A Tory government would never hold a referendum on the monarchy so it is not an issue, if there was to be one it would be under Labour and in the unlikely event there was a vote for a republic there would be a Labour government implementing it.

There is nothing unconservative about wanting to regain sovereignty from Brussels .

I do not loathe Scotland, I want it to stay in the UK, I loathe the SNP

So you only loathe half of Scotland. Not so bad then.

Boris was entitled to his holiday. He was helping out a backward country. Very disappointing those on benefits had to publicise his location.

Such a nasty country!

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

SandyRentool said:

Gallowgate said:

Casino_Royale said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Casino_Royale said:

Philip_Thompson said:

rcs1000 said:

rottenborough said:

rcs1000 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/JohnStuartWilso/status/1297136849513615361?s=20

Number (3) is possible, but difficult. And it would require the support of the IMF and the World Bank.

Is there not a way around #2?

Actually, a mix of two and three is probably the easiest option of all for an independent Scotland. The Scottish Groat would be pegged one-to-one with the Euro, and the ECB (on the basis that Scotland would be joining the EU in due course) could help support the peg.

Couldn't Scotland simply jump straight to #2?

It takes unanimity to join the EU and it takes unanimity to amend the EU treaties (including the single currency rules).

So with the unique nature of Scotland leaving the UK and rejoining the EU could it not simply seek to jump straight from Britain & the pound to ending a transition period immediately in the EU & the Euro?

That would take unanimous agreement but so does simply joining in the first place. And if the EU decides it wants to facilitate Scottish membership of the EU (and inflict a bloody nose upon the UK) they could simply agree to it could they not?

Spain.

If the referendum isn't wildcat and is endorsed by the UK Parliament then I don't think Spain will have a problem with it. Spain will have a problem giving succour to a wildcat referendum.

Spain won't want to make it easy and painless for Scotland to join.

Sounds like project fear to me.

That's all they've got. There is no positive vision of Union to sell to the people of Scotland.

Or Yorkshire, for that matter.

It worked in 2014.

It also worked in Quebec in 1995 where it was not love of Canada which saw a 51% No vote but companies starting to move out and fear of the economic damage with the carrot of devomax.

It almost worked in 2016, most of the 48% like me did not vote Remain out of any love of the EU but because we feared the economic damage of leaving it

And yet you are now the biggest pompom waver for Bozo's rock-hard no-deal Brexit. Funny old world.

No I still would prefer a deal but I also respected the will of the people to leave the EU

Which is why you are and will forever be a tory in name only. No true Conservative would "respect the will of the people" as expressed in something as unBritish and as profoundly incompatible with the constitution as a referendum. They might think for other reasons that leaving the EU was a good thing and that the Crown in Parliament should cause it to happen, but that's not the point.

Well they also won a majority in Parliament to deliver Brexit last year and it was delivered.

But you voted against Brexit in 2016 for some unfathomable reason!

The reason is simple. He follows the orders of whoever is leading the Tory Party at the time. Cammo said vote Remain, he voted Remain. Now Bozo says Hard Brexit - you know the rest.

Charles said:

Nigelb said:

One thing that it’s possible polls are not picking up is the shy Trump abandoners.
Certainly in the red areas in swing states, those Republicans who have switched are very hesitant to talk about it (& if their neighbours are true believers, who can blame them ?). Do the polls pick them up ?

The undecideds from last time around are also breaking significantly for Biden this time around. Will they turn out ?

I had a drink 2 weeks ago with a lovely couple from Louisiana. They are voting Biden - but volunteered that they just didn’t talk politics because all of their neighbours were pro Trump (they said their neighbours were driven by the fact their taxes were lower under Trump)

You could well be on to something although n=1

The main thing I am thinking of in this area is that due to turnout filters there is a strong chance Likely Voter screens would knock out 2012 Obama - 2016 Did Not Vote - 2020 Biden voters from their response.

Nigelb said:

Inside Ed Markey's unlikely emergence as an icon to Gen Z activists
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/513131-inside-ed-markeys-unlikely-emergence-as-an-icon-to-gen-z-activists

I think he might just see off the young Kennedy challenge.

O'Rourke has endorsed Kenndy

https://twitter.com/joekennedy/status/1297257055217160193?s=20

It looks close

https://twitter.com/rmc031/status/1296519761518567429?s=20

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

TimT said:

HYUFD said:

TimT said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Scotland they are mainly in HDU if really sick , only in ICU if on ventilator, as far as I am aware.

What's the dream Scottish Nationalist path now Malcolm?

The SNP isn't quite what it was. Scottish Nationalism though is very much on the up.

Economically the idea is facing some hurdles.

Diplomatically too - I'm not sure the EU is that keen now.

I imagine you'll be generally of the view to wait a small while. Would you target a 2024 date? (There's a nice 10 year thing that can be sold in Westminster)

(It clashes with a likely GE, and that's not so good)

Sooner the better for me. If they do not make next year a vote on independence then the SNP will suffer badly. Will take time to organise referendum and then negotiate the split.

So if you could choose? 2024 seems a nice date to me - not a rush (10 years).

I really don't want to see Scotland go, but if it is going to do so (and I think that likely) I'd really like you guys to have the best of the winds on your backs.

The covid thing has made this a bit more tricky, but perhaps a little bit of wind is out of the sails all round. Scotland, if it departs, will wish to seek the good wishes of the rest of us, and there's no doubt that you'll have them. No barging on really.

Thanks, nice to see an intelligent decent post , most on here only wish us ill and are praying we end up destitute and wrecked, extremely sad.

malcolm, I think there are a fair few on this site who believe firmly in self-determination. I for one think it silly for Westminster to talk about not allowing another referendum when the SNP is so dominant in Scotland and is calling for one. And even without neighbourly goodwill, it would simply be in England's self-interest to have a prosperous and happy Scotland on its doorstep post independence.

If Scotland was granted indyref2 and voted Yes London would correctly treat Edinburgh in as tough a manner as Brussels has treated London, no favours and as a foreign power

Why, and why would that be correct rather than idiotic?

As it would be a foreign power and England would correctly put its own interests first in any trade negotiations and if Scotland left to join the EU because of No Deal it would have to accept that would mean tariffs put on Scottish exports to England

Why would it be in our benefit to pay more for whisky?

Whiskey can be better: https://bushmills.com/intl/

sarissa said:

HYUFD said:

Gallowgate said:

I don’t see how immediate Scottish membership of both the Euro and the EU would give rUK a “bloody nose”. It would be good for them and by extension us.

It would mean tariffs on Scottish exports and English exports if we were on WTO terms Brexit and border posts across the Scottish border

I thought WTO rules didn’t cover financial services, which is where the ‘rUK dependency’ you’re so fond of emphasising arises.

They do cover most of the 70% of Scottish exported goods that go to England

Andy_JS said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Are there any non-Scots here besides myself who want Scotland to go independent?

I'm guessing maybe Beibheirli_C but I'm not sure about her.

Whatever they want to do should be respected.

Yup. I’m a proud Englishman and feel that Scotland would be better going its own way. I would advocate our being a very friendly neighbour and partner.

Anabobazina said:

Andy_JS said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Are there any non-Scots here besides myself who want Scotland to go independent?

I'm guessing maybe Beibheirli_C but I'm not sure about her.

Whatever they want to do should be respected.

Yup. I’m a proud Englishman and feel that Scotland would be better going its own way. I would advocate our being a very friendly neighbour and partner.

You can advocate what you want, given the main reason Scotland would likely vote for independence is a No Trade Deal WTO terms Brexit that would mean tariffs and customs posts along the border if they then left the UK to rejoin the EU

Alistair said:

rottenborough said:

rcs1000 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/JohnStuartWilso/status/1297136849513615361?s=20

Number (3) is possible, but difficult. And it would require the support of the IMF and the World Bank.

Is there not a way around #2?

The EU likes a lot of fudge but the Euro entry rules are strict

That’s easy. Just hire Goldman Sachs

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-debt-crisis-goldman-sachs-could-be-sued-for-helping-country-hide-debts-when-it-joined-euro-10381926.html?amp

Looks like a major police failing to miss this.

https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1297219655220822016?s=21

Charles said:

Nigelb said:

One thing that it’s possible polls are not picking up is the shy Trump abandoners.
Certainly in the red areas in swing states, those Republicans who have switched are very hesitant to talk about it (& if their neighbours are true believers, who can blame them ?). Do the polls pick them up ?

The undecideds from last time around are also breaking significantly for Biden this time around. Will they turn out ?

I had a drink 2 weeks ago with a lovely couple from Louisiana. They are voting Biden - but volunteered that they just didn’t talk politics because all of their neighbours were pro Trump (they said their neighbours were driven by the fact their taxes were lower under Trump)

You could well be on to something although n=1

I don’t think a Louisiana is a swing state... but that does conform with similar accounts. Even a percent or so of such voters unreached by polling would make a significant difference.

(And surely, n=2 ? )

Ave_it said:

Only Donald can save USA

Ave it now comes off the fence and endorses Donald Trump as president of the USA

Did you support him last time?

Andy_JS said:

O/T

They're showing The Bridge again on BBC4. On atm.

Brilliant series - see it if you haven't already.

sarissa said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/JohnStuartWilso/status/1297136849513615361?s=20

#3 - How did Denmark manage in 2015? Pegged to the Euro, 450 million krone ($30 billion) foreign currency reserves and they still managed to give the international currency sharks a bloody nose.

They started in 1818 and had £50bn in reserve. Which is about one year's tax take in Scotland.

If Indyref2 was "split" it would be fun to watch Yes/Remainovs argue for No Deal when the Covid Debt is put on the table, and the No/Leavers argue for a People's Vote on the negotiation.

fox327 said:

It looks like the Oxford COVID vaccine trial in the US is finally starting, with research locations in 36 states. The planned Primary Completion Date is 2nd December 2020.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746?term=vaccine&recrs=abdf&cond=COVID-19&phase=0123&sort=nwst&draw=2

The big tests for the Oxford/AZ vaccine are in Brazil (started June 28) and South Africa (July 1). If you assume they vaccinate 1,000 people in each country a week, then there are now about 14,000 people having been given either the vaccine or a placebo.

Now, it typically takes 2-3 weeks for the immune system to develop the required neutralising antibodies (although it's possible a heightened T cell response may come sooner), so we can probably expect the first meaningful (albeit limited) data to arrive imminently, perhaps as soon as next week.

malcolmg said:

PS: the same dumb Fcuks then wonder why England is hated across the world.

It isn’t. There’s only one country where so many people support whoever is playing against England, where so many call the local branch of the Anglican church something other than Anglican, where I’ve seen Twining’s English Breakfast tea described on a cafe notice board as simply “Breakfast Tea”, and where supermarkets’ own brands of English mustard are called simply “mustard”. It’s a small country that cooperated with England in establishing and running the British Empire funnily enough. It’s the only country in the world where so many people hate the English. Even diehard Irish republicans have never hated the English - it was the “Brits” they had a problem with. You should get out some more, Malcolm. Englishness is mostly a highly respected brand, e.g. in the US, on the continent, in Africa, in Asia. It’s only in one single small country that it’s widely hated. Never mind the Barnett formula and all the subventions. Even mention of such matters by someone speaking in an English accent can be met with foaming xenophobic hatred as if the person “would” say such things because they are an “FEB”.

Andy_JS said:

I wish Tony Blair was still prime minister. He was miles better at the job than anyone else since he stepped down.

He'd be entering his twenty third year in power as PM (and coming up to his sixth GE). Walpole eat your heart out.

IshmaelZ said:

Morgan said:

malcolmg said:

PS: the same dumb Fcuks then wonder why England is hated across the world.

It isn’t. There’s only one country where so many people support whoever is playing against England, where so many call the local branch of the Anglican church something other than Anglican, where I’ve seen Twining’s English Breakfast tea described on a cafe notice board as simply “Breakfast Tea”, and where supermarkets’ own brands of English mustard are called simply “mustard”. It’s a small country that cooperated with England in establishing and running the British Empire funnily enough. It’s the only country in the world where so many people hate the English. Even diehard Irish republicans have never hated the English - it was the “Brits” they had a problem with. You should get out some more, Malcolm. Englishness is mostly a highly respected brand, e.g. in the US, on the continent, in Africa, in Asia. It’s only in one single small country that it’s widely hated. Never mind the Barnett formula and all the subventions. Even mention of such matters by someone speaking in an English accent can be met with foaming xenophobic hatred as if the person “would” say such things because they are an “FEB”.

The Scottish Episcopal Church is not "the local branch of the Anglican church" because it's not under the jurisdiction of what Charles would call ++Cantab, and it's not unique either because there's the Episcopal Church in the States. It's not called Anglican because it isn't Anglican.

I am English and live in England and I support whoever is playing against England to the hilt in any football match ever played because of the overall rise in national c**tishness with every victory in every competition.

Your view of the origins of the British Empire displays a borderline racist contempt for the contribution of the people of Wales and NI.

It is true that I spend more time in the Highlands n Islands than the central belt, but I have never, ever encountered anything worse than being treated as a bit of an idiot, and I get that in England too, so we can't rule out a non racist explanation.

Don’t call me a racist. I didn’t say the English and the Scots were the only countries that set up and ran the British empire. You might as well call yourself racist for not mentioning Irish people from the 26 counties in the days when the UK was the UKGBI.

I take your point about the Scottish Episcopalians but it is pedantic because they are part of the Anglican Communion which is what I meant. They recognise the Archbishop of Canterbury as the head of it if not his “jurisdiction”. I do not know the precise ecclesiastical terminology but of course the Scottish Episcopalians are Anglican. They are part of the Anglican Communion, unlike the Church of Scotland and the Calvinist Scottish churches which would run a mile rather than appoint a bishop.

England is a strong brand around the world, and if you hate the English despite being English then that’s your problem because I was talking about how the English are perceived by others and so was Malcolm. Just that he was wrong because the only country where hatred of the English is widespread is Scotland. There are parts of Wales where it’s quite widespread but they’re only parts and most of Wales is fairly positive about the English.

During your stays in Scotland haven’t you noticed things like the tea and the mustard? Perhaps you should come and live in Scotland rather than simply visit and you might realise that if you are ethnically English and you express a view about how things should be here that is at loggerheads with the views of some ethnic Scots, your ethnicity will probably be an issue just as much as if you are black English in conversation with a group of white English BNP supporters. Scotland is back in the 1950s as far as multiculturalism is concerned, and the whole “independence within the EU” line is a dog whistle, bearing in mind EU membership requires a hard border on the Tweed because rUK will be outside the CU and SM and there is no GFA equivalent and nor would the EU agree one. The line is the political equivalent of supporting whoever is playing against England. The message is “We’re not inward looking; it’s only the English that we hate.”

https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1297308432299679745