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  • dodrade
    dodrade Posts: 597
    Ninoinoz said:


    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    The Cheeky Girls?
    What about Count Dracula, but is he Romanian or Hungarian? Either way still probably the kind of person Farage doesn't want moving in next door.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    edited May 2014
    AveryLP said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    AveryLP said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Sean_F said:

    Bond_James_Bond said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Maybe the James O'Brien interview was just sparring for Farage.. on Newsnight this evening vs Paxo!

    Do you think David Cameron would ever be willing to face Paxman on a day of attacks like this?
    I doubt it

    UKIP must believe that all publicity is a net positive.. I know its anecdotal and I live in a strong UKIP area, but everyone I speak to seems to be voting for them. The glossy, airbrushed perfect image everyone presents nowadays on facebook/twitter etc is wearing thin. I dont think being seen to make mistakes or gaffes is as damaging as it used to be

    They just tell you that to get rid of you.
    I think we can expect UKIP to poll very well in Havering, where Isam lives.

    Are you standing in Berchtesgaden your ideological home ?

    For some reason that has made me want a stein of the finest German beer.

    I'm sat here swilling beer in my Lederhosen.
    Isn't that a bit uncomfortable, Mr. Brooke?

    I hope no one is watching.

    Ah Mr Pole, glad your back.

    I've been trying to fill the smear UKIP slot in your absence, but now you're back I can return to smearing Osborne.

    he's crap you know.
    So you must have been reporting Helmer's henchmen taking on a disabled political opponent in Newark Market Square.

    I am almost as outraged as John Mann MP.

    No doubt Socrates will put it all down to media bias.

    Just shows what lily livered wusses we've become. Helmer should borrow Erdogans Spad to liven the election up a bit.
  • Socrates
    Socrates Posts: 10,322
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Socrates said:

    The Tories aren't liberals, as the GCHQ intrusions and snooper's charter show very well. They're more just the front group for the elite: siding with big business on economic matters, government agencies on individual privacy matters, and the PC commentariat on what we're allowed to say on social issues.

    You define 'not liberal' as anything you don't like, which is a curiously selective list.

    Have you ever once given Cameron credit for any of the liberal reforms the government has brought in? There's a good assesment here, 9 out of 14 pledges achieved and three in progress

    http://cameronsdashboard.co.uk/civil-liberties/

    I define "liberal" as rights and protections from government, as it has always been defined. In terms of that list, there are a few good things on there but (a) it counts as 'done' stuff like the British Bill of Rights, which never happened, (b) it equally weights pledges, when some obviously matter a lot more than others (like rolling back New Labour's erosion of civil liberties and (c) it completely ignores the authoritarian crap they're going along with which wasn't mentioned in their manifesto, like mass gathering of screenshots from private video calls and a whole new snooper's charter.
  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Speedy said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    A couple of curiousities from the Euro election campaign.

    Has anyone made the positive case for unrestricted immigration from the EU? Is there one?

    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    Good guestion, are there any?
    My quess is no, if there were any then the media would have already found them in these past 3 months of mud to UKIP mode.
    Channel 4 had a Romanian dentist. He didn't like UKIP.

  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians"

    Point of order, Mr Chairman, The Romanians may be described as a nation, they do not constitute a race.
  • Tykejohnno
    Tykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Alanbrooke said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Sean_F said:

    Com Res, UKIP 33%, Labour 27%, Conservative 20%, Lib Dem 7%, Green 6%, Others 7%.

    violent fruitcakes on the slide. 67% of voters don't support UKIP whereas 20% positively back Cameron.

    lol,nasty smearing tories on the slide.
    TJ there was an afternoon gap in the call UKIP racists programme so I was asked to fill in. But now Avery's back we can all enjoy stories on Nigel's summer job as Grand Wizard of the KKK.

    Anyways you must be bricking it what with Cameron flying high on 20% and closing. It's all support from Scotland I'm told.
    lol

    Wasn't having a go at you alan ;-) but alot of what our tim use to call pb tories have really turned me off the con party in the last few weeks.
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    HurstLlama said:

    "Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians"

    Point of order, Mr Chairman, The Romanians may be described as a nation, they do not constitute a race.

    Point of devil's advocacy Mr Chairman, race is an entirely arbitrary construct and any distinction is as arbitary as any other.
  • Speedy
    Speedy Posts: 12,100
    anotherDave said:

    Speedy said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    A couple of curiousities from the Euro election campaign.

    Has anyone made the positive case for unrestricted immigration from the EU? Is there one?

    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    Good guestion, are there any?
    My quess is no, if there were any then the media would have already found them in these past 3 months of mud to UKIP mode.
    Channel 4 had a Romanian dentist. He didn't like UKIP.

    Good score for Channel 4's investigative journalism.
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    Socrates said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Socrates said:

    The Tories aren't liberals, as the GCHQ intrusions and snooper's charter show very well. They're more just the front group for the elite: siding with big business on economic matters, government agencies on individual privacy matters, and the PC commentariat on what we're allowed to say on social issues.

    You define 'not liberal' as anything you don't like, which is a curiously selective list.

    Have you ever once given Cameron credit for any of the liberal reforms the government has brought in? There's a good assesment here, 9 out of 14 pledges achieved and three in progress

    http://cameronsdashboard.co.uk/civil-liberties/

    I define "liberal" as rights and protections from government, as it has always been defined. In terms of that list, there are a few good things on there but (a) it counts as 'done' stuff like the British Bill of Rights, which never happened, (b) it equally weights pledges, when some obviously matter a lot more than others (like rolling back New Labour's erosion of civil liberties and (c) it completely ignores the authoritarian crap they're going along with which wasn't mentioned in their manifesto, like mass gathering of screenshots from private video calls and a whole new snooper's charter.
    That's an overly limited view of liberty.
  • TOPPING
    TOPPING Posts: 44,060
    HurstLlama said:

    "Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians"

    Point of order, Mr Chairman, The Romanians may be described as a nation, they do not constitute a race.

    yep. And what did they ever do for us anyway?
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Tykejohnno said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Sean_F said:

    Com Res, UKIP 33%, Labour 27%, Conservative 20%, Lib Dem 7%, Green 6%, Others 7%.

    violent fruitcakes on the slide. 67% of voters don't support UKIP whereas 20% positively back Cameron.

    lol,nasty smearing tories on the slide.
    TJ there was an afternoon gap in the call UKIP racists programme so I was asked to fill in. But now Avery's back we can all enjoy stories on Nigel's summer job as Grand Wizard of the KKK.

    Anyways you must be bricking it what with Cameron flying high on 20% and closing. It's all support from Scotland I'm told.
    lol

    Wasn't having a go at you alan ;-) but alot of what our tim use to call pb tories have really turned me off the con party in the last few weeks.
    tim's definition of PB Tory was pretty wide though. I'm the local chair of the SWP and was called a PB Tory ;-)
  • matt
    matt Posts: 3,789




    I define "liberal" as rights and protections from government, as it has always been defined. In terms of that list, there are a few good things on there but (a) it counts as 'done' stuff like the British Bill of Rights, which never happened, (b) it equally weights pledges, when some obviously matter a lot more than others (like rolling back New Labour's erosion of civil liberties and (c) it completely ignores the authoritarian crap they're going along with which wasn't mentioned in their manifesto, like mass gathering of screenshots from private video calls and a whole new snooper's charter.

    Defined by you. Not by history.

  • BobaFett
    BobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Alanbrooke said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Sean_F said:

    Com Res, UKIP 33%, Labour 27%, Conservative 20%, Lib Dem 7%, Green 6%, Others 7%.

    violent fruitcakes on the slide. 67% of voters don't support UKIP whereas 20% positively back Cameron.

    lol,nasty smearing tories on the slide.
    TJ there was an afternoon gap in the call UKIP racists programme so I was asked to fill in. But now Avery's back we can all enjoy stories on Nigel's summer job as Grand Wizard of the KKK.

    Anyways you must be bricking it what with Cameron flying high on 20% and closing. It's all support from Scotland I'm told.
    lol

    Wasn't having a go at you alan ;-) but alot of what our tim use to call pb tories have really turned me off the con party in the last few weeks.
    tim's definition of PB Tory was pretty wide though. I'm the local chair of the SWP and was called a PB Tory ;-)
    After a very long, manic, sticky Monday that made me LOL.
    Hats off sir!
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Good evening, everyone.

    Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Matt.

    Axing the ID card abomination was a very good step, but I must agree there's a lack of properly liberal thinking in politics (cf the de facto blasphemy censorship we have seen over Jesus and Mo). A real liberal would be outraged by that, not considering deselecting Majjid Nawaz[sp].
  • LordWakefield
    LordWakefield Posts: 144
    First time back on this site since the 2005 GE. I've a new found interest in Politics and intend to hopefully do some speculating. I've a few positions on Labour to win the popular vote in the Euros and Layed UKIP on Betfair. Can anyone give me an idea of what kind of liquidity we can expect come election count on Sunday when the market goes in play? I really want to increase my positions with a view to trading out but I don't want to get get caught out with low liquidity. 56k matched so far doesn't look too encouraging.
  • JBriskin
    JBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Real liberals S their pants at almost everything because the world is pretty scary, Morris.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Socrates said:

    The Tories aren't liberals, as the GCHQ intrusions and snooper's charter show very well. They're more just the front group for the elite: siding with big business on economic matters, government agencies on individual privacy matters, and the PC commentariat on what we're allowed to say on social issues.

    You define 'not liberal' as anything you don't like, which is a curiously selective list.

    Have you ever once given Cameron credit for any of the liberal reforms the government has brought in? There's a good assesment here, 9 out of 14 pledges achieved and three in progress

    http://cameronsdashboard.co.uk/civil-liberties/

    Er no. The things that Socrates lists are, almost by definition, the antithesis of liberalism. The one good, unimpeachable thing that Cameron has done was Gay marriage and all it implied for an adult attitude to gays in society. But sadly apart from that his record on civil liberties has been very poor since he came to power.

    Before he came to power I would add he was instrumental in defeating a raft of illiberal measures by the former government and again he should be congratulated. It is just a shame that attitude has not been sustained into government.
    It seems good liberal intentions are easily jettisoned once in office, unfortunately.
  • MarkSenior
    MarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited May 2014
    HurstLlama said:

    "Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians"

    Point of order, Mr Chairman, The Romanians may be described as a nation, they do not constitute a race.

    That depends on your definition of race . The Norfolk Swallowtail butterfly is classed as a different sub species or race from the European Swallowtail and both are different to the Scandinavian sub species . The main difference between britannicus and gorganus is the food plant of the caterpillar . On that basis Germans are a different race to us because they eat sauerkraut and we don't .
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2014
    Ninoinoz said:

    A couple of curiousities from the Euro election campaign.

    Has anyone made the positive case for unrestricted immigration from the EU? Is there one?

    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    Here is Dr. Tommy Tomescu, who runs the Alliance Against Romanian & Bulgarian Discrimination. A bit worthy and dull but pertinent.

    A video entitled "Why I Think Nigel Farage Should be PerProsecuted"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9GoHazyG60

    There are also the Cantacuzino family, but I don't think they talk in public to anyone below the social rank of Old Etonian.
  • Speedy
    Speedy Posts: 12,100
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Matt.

    Axing the ID card abomination was a very good step, but I must agree there's a lack of properly liberal thinking in politics (cf the de facto blasphemy censorship we have seen over Jesus and Mo). A real liberal would be outraged by that, not considering deselecting Majjid Nawaz[sp].

    Well muslims are very social conservatives.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    chortle

    it's now just getting beyond ridiculous, Cooper and Lammy attack Farage as a racist.These attacks remind me of generals fighting the last war not this one. Increasingly Farage is getting to be the underdog of UK politics and picking up support as a result.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/19/nigel-farage-racist-yvette-cooper-david-lammy
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Lord Wakefield, welcome back.

    Mr. Briskin, disagree. You're confusing actual liberals with Lib Dems. It was fun watching them suddenly become hard right Tories when the London looting exploded in 2011.

    Mr. Speedy, many are, but freedom of speech matters more than the right not to be offended, and non-Muslims cannot legitimately be bound by Islamic rules.
  • Ninoinoz
    Ninoinoz Posts: 1,312
    dodrade said:

    Ninoinoz said:


    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    The Cheeky Girls?
    What about Count Dracula, but is he Romanian or Hungarian? Either way still probably the kind of person Farage doesn't want moving in next door.
    Yay, the Cheeky Girls. Let's see Lembit Opik out there defending Romanians.

    Count Dracula (the fictional one) would be an undesirable neighbour, but there is much to admire about Vlad the Impaler.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Brooke, perhaps.

    Then again, it was not Farage who claimed whites like to divide and rule, and it was not Farage who called a Cabinet Minister a 'ginger rodent'.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited May 2014
    So two of the big "news" stories today are the witch-hunts of Farage and Scudamore.
    Had I not already voted by post I would now be voting UKIP. I do have someone else's proxy but I promised to vote in the way they want and a promise has to be kept. That said, the effect of these witch-hunts is to recall.

    First they came for UKIP, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Kipper.....
  • lookingforfacts
    lookingforfacts Posts: 2
    Mike - did you see Full yougov polls for London and for Wales today?
    They are both very good for Labour - I often feel the small samples don't help - whereas these two full 1000+ polls show a much more positive figure for Labour
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Brooke, perhaps.

    Then again, it was not Farage who claimed whites like to divide and rule, and it was not Farage who called a Cabinet Minister a 'ginger rodent'.

    Mr D

    the last week hasn't really been one of PBs better ones. The endless kipper sledging was just pointless. I can only assume all 3 parties are now seeing chunks of support drifting off and just don't know how to stop it.
  • Ninoinoz
    Ninoinoz Posts: 1,312
    AveryLP said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    A couple of curiousities from the Euro election campaign.

    Has anyone made the positive case for unrestricted immigration from the EU? Is there one?

    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    Here is Dr. Tommy Tomescu, who runs the Alliance Against Romanian & Bulgarian Discrimination. A bit worthy and dull but pertinent.

    A video entitled "Why I Think Nigel Farage Should be PerProsecuted"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9GoHazyG60

    There are also the Cantacuzino family, but I don't think they talk in public to anyone below the social rank of Old Etonian.
    Well, I've never heard of him.

    But, I have heard of TSE, and a pretty vivid description of the Romanian Roma in Britain he's given. Also, I've heard some rum things how Romanian Roma children are brought up, hence all the FARA shops I keep seeing.
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    Alanbrooke said:

    chortle

    it's now just getting beyond ridiculous, Cooper and Lammy attack Farage as a racist.These attacks remind me of generals fighting the last war not this one. Increasingly Farage is getting to be the underdog of UK politics and picking up support as a result.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/19/nigel-farage-racist-yvette-cooper-david-lammy

    A sizable chunk of the population thinks Farage is either racist or trying to appeal to racists, but they're not among UKIP supporters.
  • JBriskin
    JBriskin Posts: 2,380
    I sympathise with the viewpoint TC, I feel it's best to blame it on the news cycle.
  • volcanopete
    volcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The Newark by-election should be entertaining if not illuminating.Plod's on the case.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2014-05-19/ukip-newark-candidate-denies-claims-he-assaulted-protester/
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Brooke, aye, it's been a bit tedious.

    Still, only a few days until the next F1 weekend gets started. Speaking of which, Ladbrokes has its markets up.

    Hmm. Red Bull only 7 to be top scoring team. I was hoping for double figures.
  • Tykejohnno
    Tykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited May 2014
    Alanbrooke said:

    chortle

    it's now just getting beyond ridiculous, Cooper and Lammy attack Farage as a racist.These attacks remind me of generals fighting the last war not this one. Increasingly Farage is getting to be the underdog of UK politics and picking up support as a result.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/19/nigel-farage-racist-yvette-cooper-david-lammy

    Alan,even funnier,diane abbott having a go at farage.

    Diane “White People” Abbott’s Race Row Hypocrisy

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/19/diane-white-people-abbotts-race-row-hypocrisy/
  • Speedy
    Speedy Posts: 12,100
    AveryLP said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    A couple of curiousities from the Euro election campaign.

    Has anyone made the positive case for unrestricted immigration from the EU? Is there one?

    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    Here is Dr. Tommy Tomescu, who runs the Alliance Against Romanian & Bulgarian Discrimination. A bit worthy and dull but pertinent.

    A video entitled "Why I Think Nigel Farage Should be PerProsecuted"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9GoHazyG60

    There are also the Cantacuzino family, but I don't think they talk in public to anyone below the social rank of Old Etonian.
    I don't know if their the same family but the Cantacuzino's were duke's that tried to take the throne of the Byzantine Empire in the 14th century, if it's the same ones then hurray for 700 years of social mobility.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    corporeal said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    chortle

    it's now just getting beyond ridiculous, Cooper and Lammy attack Farage as a racist.These attacks remind me of generals fighting the last war not this one. Increasingly Farage is getting to be the underdog of UK politics and picking up support as a result.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/19/nigel-farage-racist-yvette-cooper-david-lammy

    A sizable chunk of the population thinks Farage is either racist or trying to appeal to racists, but they're not among UKIP supporters.
    and another sizable chunk don't and will vote for him. What we have is simply mindless sledging from the 3 mainstream parties and their flunkies. Since they don't know how to deal with the issues raised.

  • JBriskin
    JBriskin Posts: 2,380
    I get the impression that one party barely understands the issues raised, Alanbrooke
  • LordWakefield
    LordWakefield Posts: 144
    volcanopete said:

    The Newark by-election should be entertaining if not illuminating.Plod's on the case.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2014-05-19/ukip-newark-candidate-denies-claims-he-assaulted-protester/

    Classic tactics of the miss called Unite Against Fascism or one of their splinter groups. Act in an provocative manor to get some kind of response then report this to the police who will be duty bound to investigate. A negative headline for UKIP. This was a tactic that was used on BNP to good effect and the UKIP are getting some of the treatment. Who next? This kind of electioneering is typical of a banana republic, can we really be comfortable with these tactics even if we despise the politics of such groups?
  • BobaFett
    BobaFett Posts: 2,789
    lookingforfacts said:

    Mike - did you see Full yougov polls for London and for Wales today?
    They are both very good for Labour - I often feel the small samples don't help - whereas these two full 1000+ polls show a much more positive figure for Labour

    I posted the London poll on here last week, it had very little publicity as you say, not least from the Standard, which buried it. Great poll for Labour - but London, already a Labour city, is trending even more left, possibly in rebellion to the anti-immigrant, anti-euro, illiberal trend elsewhere.

    Not seen the Wales poll. What did it say?
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    Alanbrooke said:

    Sean_F said:

    Bond_James_Bond said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Maybe the James O'Brien interview was just sparring for Farage.. on Newsnight this evening vs Paxo!

    Do you think David Cameron would ever be willing to face Paxman on a day of attacks like this?
    I doubt it

    UKIP must believe that all publicity is a net positive.. I know its anecdotal and I live in a strong UKIP area, but everyone I speak to seems to be voting for them. The glossy, airbrushed perfect image everyone presents nowadays on facebook/twitter etc is wearing thin. I dont think being seen to make mistakes or gaffes is as damaging as it used to be

    They just tell you that to get rid of you.
    I think we can expect UKIP to poll very well in Havering, where Isam lives.

    Are you standing in Berchtesgaden your ideological home ?
    Sadly not, on this occasion. However, I've just downed a bottle of Franzischkaner, while singing Tomorrow Belongs to Me.

  • BobaFett
    BobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Just a thought. I struggled through the Sunday Politics yesterday (Neil gets ever more annoying), so see the lass from the Statesman say the Liberals were "very resilient". How resilient are they, I mean really? Are they really going to survive annihilation at the Euros and the GE? Really?
  • JBriskin
    JBriskin Posts: 2,380
    edited May 2014
    They'll survive annihilation at the Euros, Boba, I think is the point. Sometimes we just have to listen and trust these TV people.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Sean_F

    One of the worst travesties on U tube was the moron who posted Alex Harvey's version with Nazi pictures. (read the real description from one of the band members)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKVvmfasK7E
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    What time do the polls open Thursday ?
  • lookingforfacts
    lookingforfacts Posts: 2
    BobaFett - the Welsh full yougov poll shows a dip in the previous Welsh poll for Labour- but a huge rise for Labour and UKIP from the 2009 result. The 2010 general election polls underestimated Labour in London, Wales(slightly), the North and Scotland - I think the polls are doing the same again this time. The small samples may add up to 1000 but each sample itself is often just not reliable
  • peter_from_putney
    peter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    Pulpstar said:

    What time do the polls open Thursday ?

    It's usually 7am - 10pm
  • JBriskin
    JBriskin Posts: 2,380
    It's normally 7 isn't it?
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Smarmeron said:

    @Sean_F

    One of the worst travesties on U tube was the moron who posted Alex Harvey's version with Nazi pictures. (read the real description from one of the band members)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKVvmfasK7E

    Alex Harvey was bloody awesome. 'Next' is an incredible, vicious, polemic set to music. Just fabulous.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Tyndall

    I like to annoy the old punks by telling them Alex was punk before they were born.
    But yes, they were stunning in a dirty sweaty Glasgow pub before they made a "name", and many more years ago than I care to think.
  • JBriskin
    JBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Coldplay away to do their new album live on sky arts 1 in 1 min.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited May 2014
    BobaFett said:

    Just a thought. I struggled through the Sunday Politics yesterday (Neil gets ever more annoying), so see the lass from the Statesman say the Liberals were "very resilient". How resilient are they, I mean really? Are they really going to survive annihilation at the Euros and the GE? Really?

    In a previous incarnation they were reduced to less than 10 MPs, and yet rebuilt themselves into a political force which secured near a quarter of the vote at a GE and at one time over 60 MPs. I dare say that number being reduced by possibly a half, and a wipeout of their MEPs, will result in major soul searching and significant change at somepoint, a recognition that if they are to maintain the focuses they hold, they can no longer rely on the protest vote to inflate their numbers by so much as happened until 2010, but survive? Of course. The leadership may end up culled, the direction of the party radically altered from recent times for a much reduced party, but something will remain - there are still enough people who don't wish to vote for Tory or Labour, but are not yet tempted by UKIP, to keep them around as a force.

  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    Speedy said:

    AveryLP said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    A couple of curiousities from the Euro election campaign.

    Has anyone made the positive case for unrestricted immigration from the EU? Is there one?

    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    Here is Dr. Tommy Tomescu, who runs the Alliance Against Romanian & Bulgarian Discrimination. A bit worthy and dull but pertinent.

    A video entitled "Why I Think Nigel Farage Should be PerProsecuted"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9GoHazyG60

    There are also the Cantacuzino family, but I don't think they talk in public to anyone below the social rank of Old Etonian.
    I don't know if their the same family but the Cantacuzino's were duke's that tried to take the throne of the Byzantine Empire in the 14th century, if it's the same ones then hurray for 700 years of social mobility.
    I believe they are descendants of John Cantacuzenus. IIRC, a female member of the family had a long-standing affair with Patrick Leigh-Fermour.
  • volcanopete
    volcanopete Posts: 2,078
    LordWakefield said:

    volcanopete said:

    The Newark by-election should be entertaining if not illuminating.Plod's on the case.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2014-05-19/ukip-newark-candidate-denies-claims-he-assaulted-protester/

    Classic tactics of the miss called Unite Against Fascism or one of their splinter groups. Act in an provocative manor to get some kind of response then report this to the police who will be duty bound to investigate. A negative headline for UKIP. This was a tactic that was used on BNP to good effect and the UKIP are getting some of the treatment. Who next? This kind of electioneering is typical of a banana republic, can we really be comfortable with these tactics even if we despise the politics of such groups?
    From the reports it was an anti-sleaze protest including the Chair of the local Police Committee but will the neo-nazis in Britain First now congregate to Newark to "protect" Helmer as they did Farage in Margate?Are Ukip happy to be "protected" by the equivalent of
    Ernst Röhm's SA?
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    Richard_Tyndall said:


    Alex Harvey was bloody awesome. 'Next' is an incredible, vicious, polemic set to music. Just fabulous.

    How do you think the by-election is going, Richard? (Genuine question - I've no idea about it.)

  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Heckling politicians is an ancient and venerable right.
    Provoking, insulting, and threatening them by getting "in their face" is the lowest of the low.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    volcanopete said:

    LordWakefield said:

    volcanopete said:

    The Newark by-election should be entertaining if not illuminating.Plod's on the case.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2014-05-19/ukip-newark-candidate-denies-claims-he-assaulted-protester/

    Classic tactics of the miss called Unite Against Fascism or one of their splinter groups. Act in an provocative manor to get some kind of response then report this to the police who will be duty bound to investigate. A negative headline for UKIP. This was a tactic that was used on BNP to good effect and the UKIP are getting some of the treatment. Who next? This kind of electioneering is typical of a banana republic, can we really be comfortable with these tactics even if we despise the politics of such groups?
    From the reports it was an anti-sleaze protest including the Chair of the local Police Committee but will the neo-nazis in Britain First now congregate to Newark to "protect" Helmer as they did Farage in Margate?Are Ukip happy to be "protected" by the equivalent of
    Ernst Röhm's SA?</blockquote

    Shame you are repeating myths by the Pro-EU front group Hope Not Hate. They do so love making this stuff up and watching useful idiots in the blogosphere spread it around.
  • corporeal
    corporeal Posts: 2,549
    Smarmeron said:

    Heckling politicians is an ancient and venerable right.
    Provoking, insulting, and threatening them by getting "in their face" is the lowest of the low.

    I believe even UKIP are saying that Helmer went over to them rather than them going to Helmer.
  • Tykejohnno
    Tykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Sun Politics @Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll for GE2015 - Labour lead by four points: CON 33%, LAB 37%, LD 9%, UKIP 11%

  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @corporeal
    When my friends got divorced, I would sympathize with both equally, it would be years before both their recollections started to coalesce.
    I wasn't present when they had their confrontation, so as with the divorced couples, I will wait and see.
  • Tykejohnno
    Tykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 7 mins
    EXCL: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead in euro elections as UKIP slips, + Libs down to 5th. LAB 28%, UKIP 24%, CON 21%, GRN 12%, LD 10%

  • Tykejohnno
    Tykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 6 mins
    EXCL: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - General Election vote; LAB 37%, CON 33%, UKIP 11%, LDEM 9%. UKIP at lowest since mid April. Romania effect?

    No,2 weeks of non stop smearing would do it dunny.
  • MarkSenior
    MarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Comres Independent poll Lab 35 Con 30 UKIP 14 LD 8 Others 13
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    NickPalmer said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:


    Alex Harvey was bloody awesome. 'Next' is an incredible, vicious, polemic set to music. Just fabulous.

    How do you think the by-election is going, Richard? (Genuine question - I've no idea about it.)

    Suprisingly low key at the moment. I have been in Newark most days this week and apart from the two offices for UKIP and the Conservatives on opposite sides of the market square the only real sign of campaigning has been the "Stop Commercial Banks Owning Britain's Money" candidate Dick Rogers who has been out there gamely every day with a big poster board on his pack campaigning for a fairer Britain. No idea what he actually means by that but he is a terribly friendly and engaging bloke who kind of reminds me of one of those street conversion Christians you sometimes get reading passages from the bible.

    The UKIP office and Conservative office both seem busy and there is no sign of any aggro at the moment - the stuff being reported in the news tonight actually took place in Retford not Newark so I assume was part of the Euro campaign rather than the By election as Retford is no longer in the constituency. Never trust the media to get anything right :-)

    I still contend this is a shoe in for Jenrick as I don't think Newark has the right demographics for UKIP and I again think that is a shame because Jenrick strikes me as a party placeman rather than the independent sort of MP I would like to see in the town.

    I have seen no signs yet that would indicate to me we are heading for any sort of upset.

    The Lib Dems don't seem to be taking the whole thing seriously at all - they only got their candidate sorted out last week.

    If I was going to make a prediction it would be Tory hold with much reduced majority, UKIP then Labour with the Lib Dems very lucky to save their deposit and probably in 5th or 6th.
  • Speedy
    Speedy Posts: 12,100
    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 7 mins
    EXCL: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead in euro elections as UKIP slips, + Libs down to 5th. LAB 28%, UKIP 24%, CON 21%, GRN 12%, LD 10%

    Is 3 days to stop UKIP from winning enough for the media?
  • Speedy
    Speedy Posts: 12,100
    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 6 mins
    EXCL: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - General Election vote; LAB 37%, CON 33%, UKIP 11%, LDEM 9%. UKIP at lowest since mid April. Romania effect?

    No,2 weeks of non stop smearing would do it dunny.

    UKIP voters going back to Labour?
    The Farage strategy of going after Labour votes will never work because the smears are more effective on Labour to UKIP voters than CON to UKIP ones.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    We'll need to see Yougov's tables, but UKIP will probably still edge ahead among those certain to vote.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    From the BBC and in the tradition of reporting all the candidates standing when discussing a by election :-)

    The full list of candidates, in alphabetical order by surname, is:

    Baggaley, Paul Stephen - Independent
    Bishop, David Laurence - Bus-Pass Elvis Party
    Brick, Nick The Flying - The Official Monster Raving Loony Party
    Hayes, Andy - Independent
    Helmer, Roger - UK Independence Party (UKIP)
    Jenrick, Robert Edward - The Conservative Party
    Kirwan, David Charles - Green Party
    Payne, Michael - Labour Party
    Rodgers, Dick - Stop Commercial Banks Owning Britain's Money
    Watts, David Kenneth - Liberal Democrat
    Woods, Lee - Patriotic Socialist Party
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    perdix said:

    malcolmg said:

    fitalass said:

    For those that follow Pete Wishart SNP MP on Twitter, this blog post will come as no surprise.
    Alex Massie in the Spectator Blogs - Scottish Nationalists have become Masters of Doublethink

    LOL, Tories , who have more faces than the town clock , you cannot beat them , always snivelling when they are not lying through their teeth.
    I am really looking forward to the Indyref.
    If the vote is YES I can hope for greater chances of permanent Tory majority in Westminster.
    If the vote is NO then I will be pleased that the union has survived.
    So something to celebrate either way. But above all maybe we can hope that the miserable, whining Nats will shut up for a few years.

    Fanny
  • MrJones
    MrJones Posts: 3,523
    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 6 mins
    EXCL: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - General Election vote; LAB 37%, CON 33%, UKIP 11%, LDEM 9%. UKIP at lowest since mid April. Romania effect?

    No,2 weeks of non stop smearing would do it dunny.

    I don't rate yougov at all when it comes to the Ukip score.
  • bigjohnowls
    bigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    The DH effect is in full swing. DH announces he is voting Lib Dem a week later they are down to 5th. Bad news for Ed though methinks
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    New Thread
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    MarkSenior said:

    Comres Independent poll Lab 35 Con 30 UKIP 14 LD 8 Others 13

    Telephone or online?

  • Speedy
    Speedy Posts: 12,100
    Farage should never have gone on the hunt for Labour votes, he broke the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" rule that Labour and the media used for not attacking him.
    Before he only had the Tory establishment against him now he has everyone against him.
    I don't know if he can still revert to the old strategy that worked of being an opposition to the government, instead of being an opposition to the opposition.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Patriotic Socialist Party?

    I read it......then I just had to google it

    http://www.politicsforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=43549
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    They are kipper splitters!

    http://www.patriotic-socialist.org.uk/policy
  • slade
    slade Posts: 2,200
    Ninoinoz said:

    A couple of curiousities from the Euro election campaign.

    Has anyone made the positive case for unrestricted immigration from the EU? Is there one?

    Nigel Farage has allegedly disparaged an entire race of people, the Romanians. Why haven't well-known Romanian contributors to British society been appearing on TV to refute such base accusations? Are there any?

    Probably the most famous Rumanian in Britain was Ghita Ionescu. A former diplomat who settled in Britain , taught Politics at Manchester and the LSE, and founded the journal Government and Opposition. He was a prolific scholar - originally on eastern Europe and later on European unity and democracy. After the fall of communism he was awarded an honorary doctorate at the University of Bucharest. Unfortunately he died in 1996 without issue.
  • Tykejohnno
    Tykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Got a feeling labour will win Euro's now,with Ukip sliding down into second with the non stop attacks on ukip from especially who you think were ukip friends in the media (some tory supporting newspapers)

    It will be funny after all these attacks on ukip,labour win Euro's easily and tories finish going under 20%,the tactic by the tory press will have backfired with miliband and labour coming out on top.

  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Speedy said:

    Farage should never have gone on the hunt for Labour votes, he broke the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" rule that Labour and the media used for not attacking him.
    Before he only had the Tory establishment against him now he has everyone against him.
    I don't know if he can still revert to the old strategy that worked of being an opposition to the government, instead of being an opposition to the opposition.

    That depends on the target seats that emerge from the local elections.

    It's not clear to me that the media/politcal parties can sway public opinion that much. It means UKIP are working against a headwind, but that could be good for them. Shake out the wrinkles before the general election campaign.
  • Smarmeron
    Smarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Tykejohnno

    I wouldn't worry. After a fortnights crowing by the winner, and the usual excuses by the other parties, Most of the country won't have a clue who the hell won or lost
  • Garethofthevale
    Garethofthevale Posts: 503
    Alanbrooke said:

    chortle

    it's now just getting beyond ridiculous, Cooper and Lammy attack Farage as a racist.These attacks remind me of generals fighting the last war not this one. Increasingly Farage is getting to be the underdog of UK politics and picking up support as a result.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/19/nigel-farage-racist-yvette-cooper-david-lammy

    They should be very careful or this could seriously backfire this time next week. If UKIP top the ballot and do well in Labour areas then the question is going to be "How badly are Labour doing, Ms Cooper, if you are losing to a racist party in your own back yard?"

    If UKIP come 3rd next week, then the story will be the bubble has burst (although UKIP will still be able to point to likely record national vote share). If Lab or Con come 3rd then prepare for media meltdown

    O/T - I spent the weekend in Dublin where like us they have local as well as Euro elections. There are huge numbers of posters up on every lamp post. As the Irish have open list rather than closed list for the Euros there are multiple posters for each party with different candidates.

    The view in the press is that of the current coalition Fine Gael will hold up reasonably well while Labour will take a hammering. One of the austerity measures introduced has been charges for water (this is currently free!) The Socialists have dubbed this in their posters the Water Tax (another poster also had "Cost of living crisis!"). The previous incumbents of Fianna Fail and the Greens are not expected to see any gain although Fianna Fail may hold their current seats. The big winners are expected to be Sinn Fein who are not tainted by government and are I think the most EU sceptic party in Ireland
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