politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov: If there’s a second wave then CON voters most likely t

CatMan said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

I should have said 2008, since that's when it finished.

But yes, I agree with you.

Can't remember a single episode that made me laugh once.

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

"In the states more whites are killed by blacks than vice versa."

You do realise that as there are a lot more whites than blacks that's basically inevitable, right? That's simple mathematics. It's almost impossible, when whites outnumber blacks 5-to-1, for whites to kill more blacks, than vice-versa.

Is it simple mathematics?

The population is 1000. White 900, Black 100.

Assume that 1-in-10 commit a murder randomly (and simultaneously).

90 White people commit a murder, of which 81 are of White people and 9 are Black.

10 Black people commit a murder, of which 9 are White and 1 is Black.

The number of whites killed by blacks is equal to the number of blacks killed by whites.

Perhaps even this simple mathematics is too complicated for me. What have I done wrong?

Murder is not random. People tend to kill people that they know, and in a society like America, that tends to be people of the same ethnicity.

Without being quite so dogmatic about it, same here?

dixiedean said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1270464668910391303

Bit rich to see Sarah Vine worrying about "re-writing history" given her husband's attempts to re-write the curriculum.

He's an expert on eye tests whilst driving though.

alterego said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

"In the states more whites are killed by blacks than vice versa."

You do realise that as there are a lot more whites than blacks that's basically inevitable, right? That's simple mathematics. It's almost impossible, when whites outnumber blacks 5-to-1, for whites to kill more blacks, than vice-versa.

Is it simple mathematics?

The population is 1000. White 900, Black 100.

Assume that 1-in-10 commit a murder randomly (and simultaneously).

90 White people commit a murder, of which 81 are of White people and 9 are Black.

10 Black people commit a murder, of which 9 are White and 1 is Black.

The number of whites killed by blacks is equal to the number of blacks killed by whites.

Perhaps even this simple mathematics is too complicated for me. What have I done wrong?

Murder is not random. People tend to kill people that they know, and in a society like America, that tends to be people of the same ethnicity.

Without being quite so dogmatic about it, same here?

I would expect so.

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

Purity. Everything must be pure.

Except myself and my own side obviously, where we can attack the jews today, now, 2020. Not the 19th century but now.

Benpointer said:

BluestBlue said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

Yes. Back then we still pretended to be a free society.

See what 10 years of Tory rule have done?

Woken the wokes?

IshmaelZ said:

NickPalmer said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I think voting for Jeremy Corbyn is deranged but if that's what people want then so be it. People have the right to be bonkers sometimes.

If people want Gladstone, Churchill or Cromwell gone then so be it. I would personally oppose those coming down [except Cromwell, I'm indifferent to him]. If a statue of Churchill was pulled down by a mob I'd bet it would be back up within 24 hours.

Who we have on our plinths today is up to the people today - not up to the people of the past. There is no divine right for any statue to remain on a plinth.

Same for the future. If in the future a democratic government chose to take down a statue of Churchill and replace it with a statue of Boris Johnson or Keir Starmer then that would be up to that future government.

Exactly.

You can't have it both ways. Either the politicians are responsible for the statues, or they're not.

Agreed, though other things being equal I'd vote to respect the judgments of the past, at least in a history museum. They need to be seen in retrospect as pretty bad a la Jimmy Savile - or slavers - before actual destruction is warranted.

The Savile analogy is often made but is badly off point. Slave trading at the relevant times was both legal, and socially acceptable.

It was not socially acceptable. The abolitionist movement didn't come out of no where. It was a long running reaction to an out of touch political and financial elite who engaged in a morally abhorrent practice.

IshmaelZ said:

NickPalmer said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I think voting for Jeremy Corbyn is deranged but if that's what people want then so be it. People have the right to be bonkers sometimes.

If people want Gladstone, Churchill or Cromwell gone then so be it. I would personally oppose those coming down [except Cromwell, I'm indifferent to him]. If a statue of Churchill was pulled down by a mob I'd bet it would be back up within 24 hours.

Who we have on our plinths today is up to the people today - not up to the people of the past. There is no divine right for any statue to remain on a plinth.

Same for the future. If in the future a democratic government chose to take down a statue of Churchill and replace it with a statue of Boris Johnson or Keir Starmer then that would be up to that future government.

Exactly.

You can't have it both ways. Either the politicians are responsible for the statues, or they're not.

Agreed, though other things being equal I'd vote to respect the judgments of the past, at least in a history museum. They need to be seen in retrospect as pretty bad a la Jimmy Savile - or slavers - before actual destruction is warranted.

The Savile analogy is often made but is badly off point. Slave trading at the relevant times was both legal, and socially acceptable.

Colstons statue went up in 1895, didn't it?

And in 1813, we had abolished the slave trade six years before (but not yet slavery) so hardly socially acceptable.

Foxy said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

Comedy is usually patchy. No one reminisces over the filler in Monty Python.

In the second series in particular the gentle eccentricity gave out to gross out comedy. Ting Tong, Bubbles de Vere, and the vomiting racist WI matrons were not funny.

But you obviously remember them well.

So it looks like Boris gets a pass from his voters even if there is a second wave

alterego said:

Foxy said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

Comedy is usually patchy. No one reminisces over the filler in Monty Python.

In the second series in particular the gentle eccentricity gave out to gross out comedy. Ting Tong, Bubbles de Vere, and the vomiting racist WI matrons were not funny.

But you obviously remember them well.

Yes, because like much of the country, I watched it. It was popular for a reason.

A lot of comedy dates very badly.

FrancisUrquhart said:

eadric said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

Maybe. I doubt it.

But if they do try it, expect proper violence in the streets

A small, evil bit of me wants the worst of them to have a go so they are all beaten into a pulp

If Churchill is the firewall, there are going to be a lot of empty pilths before they get to him.

After the statues will come the book burning.

Churchill wrote some books.

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1270356530991333376

Anabobazina said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

Everyone finally realised it was repetitive boring shite?

No reason to partially censor it.

HYUFD said:

So it looks like Boris gets a pass from his voters even if there is a second wave

I was in this Yougov.

I blame the public and government equally, not least because the public elected a government of fuckwits!

Beibheirli_C said:

RobD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

rcs1000 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

rcs1000 said:

FPT:

I'm sure Mr Floyd was far from an angel. And the police deserve our respect for dealing with the dangerous and the mentally ill and the drugged up on a daily basis. It cannot be easy remaining calm under constant provocation, and then subduing the psychotic.

We need to give them some slack.

Whether Mr Floyd was an angel or not is irrelevant. The Police have no mandate to strangle members of the public. When they arrest us, we are meant to survive the process unless we are shooting or hurling knives.

That's exactly what my comment says. You just cut off the second half of it.

I have gone back an re-read it and it seems rather ambiguous to me.

You have to admit the selective quoting does change the context quite a bit.

I often cut quotes down because otherwise they turn into sprawling, massively nested splurges that quickly become unreadable.

It's harder when your own posts are sprawling, massive, and unreadable splurges. Believe me, I'd know.

alterego said:

rottenborough said:

CatMan said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

I should have said 2008, since that's when it finished.

But yes, I agree with you.

Can't remember a single episode that made me laugh once.

You obviously watched them all to make sure. 😉

I'm always fair.

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

Yes, they have. Occasionally for the better, though not always.

IshmaelZ said:

NickPalmer said:

rcs1000 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I think voting for Jeremy Corbyn is deranged but if that's what people want then so be it. People have the right to be bonkers sometimes.

If people want Gladstone, Churchill or Cromwell gone then so be it. I would personally oppose those coming down [except Cromwell, I'm indifferent to him]. If a statue of Churchill was pulled down by a mob I'd bet it would be back up within 24 hours.

Who we have on our plinths today is up to the people today - not up to the people of the past. There is no divine right for any statue to remain on a plinth.

Same for the future. If in the future a democratic government chose to take down a statue of Churchill and replace it with a statue of Boris Johnson or Keir Starmer then that would be up to that future government.

Exactly.

You can't have it both ways. Either the politicians are responsible for the statues, or they're not.

Agreed, though other things being equal I'd vote to respect the judgments of the past, at least in a history museum. They need to be seen in retrospect as pretty bad a la Jimmy Savile - or slavers - before actual destruction is warranted.

The Savile analogy is often made but is badly off point. Slave trading at the relevant times was both legal, and socially acceptable.

As chattel, I believe ownership of a share in a slave was widespread amongst those who could afford it. Being only a share that included people of moderate means,

kle4 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

RobD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

rcs1000 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

rcs1000 said:

FPT:

I'm sure Mr Floyd was far from an angel. And the police deserve our respect for dealing with the dangerous and the mentally ill and the drugged up on a daily basis. It cannot be easy remaining calm under constant provocation, and then subduing the psychotic.

We need to give them some slack.

Whether Mr Floyd was an angel or not is irrelevant. The Police have no mandate to strangle members of the public. When they arrest us, we are meant to survive the process unless we are shooting or hurling knives.

That's exactly what my comment says. You just cut off the second half of it.

I have gone back an re-read it and it seems rather ambiguous to me.

You have to admit the selective quoting does change the context quite a bit.

I often cut quotes down because otherwise they turn into sprawling, massively nested splurges that quickly become unreadable.

It's harder when your own posts are sprawling, massive, and unreadable splurges. Believe me, I'd know.

Actually, most of mine are quite short.

Here... have a smiley and cheer up

https://twitter.com/srl/status/1270459354752442368?s=19

Foxy said:

HYUFD said:

So it looks like Boris gets a pass from his voters even if there is a second wave

I was in this Yougov.

I blame the public and government equally, not least because the public elected a government of fuckwits!

Perhaps this is all part of regaining control?

Alistair said:

https://twitter.com/srl/status/1270459354752442368?s=19

For a country that has votes on so many different things that other places do not, it does not appear to be one of their many strengths.

This is bizzare:

https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1270109959636779008?s=20

Theuniondivvie said:

BluestBlue said:

HYUFD said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

It won't, most voters have a positive view of Churchill, only Labour voters do not.

However even Labour voters are more mixed in their view of him then negative

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1269896392396484609?s=20

Weird how the only people not to endorse a literal anti-fascist are the self-styled 'antifascists'...

Who in their right mind couldn't endorse Keep England White Winnie?

True, the SNP at the time were rather keener on Mr Hitler's vision of Europe.

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

You playing twitter statue bingo?

By morning, you could have found a tweet for every statue in the UK.

eadric said:

kle4 said:

eadric said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

Maybe. I doubt it.

But if they do try it, expect proper violence in the streets

A small, evil bit of me wants the worst of them to have a go so they are all beaten into a pulp

I don't think there will be violence in the streets defending statues of some people. Resistance, I am sure, so I don't think Churchill for instance is in danger within 3 years, but the 'must fall' people are just more determined and driven. Take out a few by vandalism and, due to the target, watch them not get replaced. Watch others then get removed as a precaution against vandalism. Then see vandalism against more 'mainstream' figures, and cries of it going too far, maybe replacing those ones. But they'll be back. They want it so much more, and are so righteous.

Oh yes, I quite agree.

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

From the Second Coming by Yeats, which was, inter alia, written in reaction to his wife nearly dying in the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918

But in the end these convulsive movements do suddenly and brutally collapse - in general. Look at ISIS, or the French Terror, or the Cultural Revolution. There's a cycle of growing wildness and weirdness, than an abrupt end. And the extremists left at the end usually come to a sticky conclusion.

Let us hope that the UK's conclusion is legal and political, jail time maybe, and not street thuggery and physical revenge (which I fear is highly possible)

Tommy Robinson is leading an EDL march in London on Saturday, I hope it does not get violent

Andy_JS said:

HYUFD said:

So it looks like Boris gets a pass from his voters even if there is a second wave

Has there been new polling?

See the thread header, 56% of Tory voters blame the public if there is a second wave

Bring them down. All of them. Colston, Nelson, Churchill, Gandhi, Faucett, Mandela, the lot. We have a saying, 'don't put people on pedestals'. Then what do we do? We literally go and put people on pedestals!

No-one's perfect, not by the standards of their own time, and, as is repeatedly pointed out, certainly not by those of the future.

But there's another problem as well that's been ignored, but I heard, I think during a R4 programme at the time of Rhodes must fall. It's not just a question of who gets a statue but of who doesn't. Wilberforce is most definitely on the right side of history; he dedicated his life to fighting Atlantic slavery. But so did many Africans and former slaves, taking far greater risks to do so than him. Yet there are no statues of them, in many cases their names are completely lost to history. So by putting up a statue to Wilberforce and not them we are inadvertently amplifying the racism of the time.

So I guess we can leave the statues of the Unknown Soldier. And put up ones to the Unknown Slave, or the Unknown Suffragist/ette, or even the Unknown Prime Minister?

However, I'm not liking the equivocation with Marx's gravestone. The bar for getting a statue is very very high, the bar for getting a gravestone is very very low, so I'd let gravestones stand.

Hello everyone, I've been lurking here since June 2016, and reading headers for a while longer.

Stereotomy said:

Benpointer said:

This is bizzare:

https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1270109959636779008?s=20

Actually it's completely normal.

Is it? Why?

Beibheirli_C said:

Stereotomy said:

Benpointer said:

This is bizzare:

https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/1270109959636779008?s=20

Actually it's completely normal.

Is it? Why?

I don't mean tyre slashing in particular, I mean these kinds of acts by the police in the US.

Foxy said:

alterego said:

Foxy said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

Comedy is usually patchy. No one reminisces over the filler in Monty Python.

In the second series in particular the gentle eccentricity gave out to gross out comedy. Ting Tong, Bubbles de Vere, and the vomiting racist WI matrons were not funny.

But you obviously remember them well.

Yes, because like much of the country, I watched it. It was popular for a reason.

A lot of comedy dates very badly.

The best doesn't date. If it dates it's not comedic.

HYUFD said:

eadric said:

kle4 said:

eadric said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

Maybe. I doubt it.

But if they do try it, expect proper violence in the streets

A small, evil bit of me wants the worst of them to have a go so they are all beaten into a pulp

I don't think there will be violence in the streets defending statues of some people. Resistance, I am sure, so I don't think Churchill for instance is in danger within 3 years, but the 'must fall' people are just more determined and driven. Take out a few by vandalism and, due to the target, watch them not get replaced. Watch others then get removed as a precaution against vandalism. Then see vandalism against more 'mainstream' figures, and cries of it going too far, maybe replacing those ones. But they'll be back. They want it so much more, and are so righteous.

Oh yes, I quite agree.

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

From the Second Coming by Yeats, which was, inter alia, written in reaction to his wife nearly dying in the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918

But in the end these convulsive movements do suddenly and brutally collapse - in general. Look at ISIS, or the French Terror, or the Cultural Revolution. There's a cycle of growing wildness and weirdness, than an abrupt end. And the extremists left at the end usually come to a sticky conclusion.

Let us hope that the UK's conclusion is legal and political, jail time maybe, and not street thuggery and physical revenge (which I fear is highly possible)

Tommy Robinson is leading an EDL march in London on Saturday, I hope it does not get violent

Surely there is some kind of psychological term for this? Snap back? One week everyone is cowering in their homes terrified of dying of the plague and demanding their government lock them down.

Next it is open warfare on the streets, mass protests, marches...

flizzy said:

Bring them down. All of them. Colston, Nelson, Churchill, Gandhi, Faucett, Mandela, the lot. We have a saying, 'don't put people on pedestals'. Then what do we do? We literally go and put people on pedestals!

No-one's perfect, not by the standards of their own time, and, as is repeatedly pointed out, certainly not by those of the future.

But there's another problem as well that's been ignored, but I heard, I think during a R4 programme at the time of Rhodes must fall. It's not just a question of who gets a statue but of who doesn't. Wilberforce is most definitely on the right side of history; he dedicated his life to fighting Atlantic slavery. But so did many Africans and former slaves, taking far greater risks to do so than him. Yet there are no statues of them, in many cases their names are completely lost to history. So by putting up a statue to Wilberforce and not them we are inadvertently amplifying the racism of the time.

So I guess we can leave the statues of the Unknown Soldier. And put up ones to the Unknown Slave, or the Unknown Suffragist/ette, or even the Unknown Prime Minister?

However, I'm not liking the equivocation with Marx's gravestone. The bar for getting a statue is very very high, the bar for getting a gravestone is very very low, so I'd let gravestones stand.

Hello everyone, I've been lurking here since June 2016, and reading headers for a while longer.

I think people unknown to history not getting statues is unfortunate but does not make the statues of people who did grand things amplifications of racism. I think that sort of approach diminishes the good that was done by undercutting it. There certainly are monuments in existence recognising general concepts or groups, and I think an expansion of the Unknown Soldier concept you suggest is a good one.

But given changing cultural morals over time a lot of 'good' people then become problematic later, but then might be revisited with positivity yet later still, and the only solution to that being anonymised or conceptual statues seems disproportionate.

Theuniondivvie said:

BluestBlue said:

HYUFD said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

It won't, most voters have a positive view of Churchill, only Labour voters do not.

However even Labour voters are more mixed in their view of him then negative

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1269896392396484609?s=20

Weird how the only people not to endorse a literal anti-fascist are the self-styled 'antifascists'...

Who in their right mind couldn't endorse Keep England White Winnie?

Who called out the troops on the miners, left the Australians in the lurch in two World wars, gassed and bombed the Kurds and whose main reason for the wilderness years was opposition to Indian self government? Beats me!

Count me in the mixed opinion group.

OMFG, I joked the other day that knowing Trump it would be Stephen Miller writing the unity and race relations speech.

AND IT ONLY FUCKING IS

https://twitter.com/AprilDRyan/status/1270433974934999041?s=19

Useless fact; today is the anniversary of the 1983 general election.

BluestBlue said:

Theuniondivvie said:

BluestBlue said:

HYUFD said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

It won't, most voters have a positive view of Churchill, only Labour voters do not.

However even Labour voters are more mixed in their view of him then negative

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1269896392396484609?s=20

Weird how the only people not to endorse a literal anti-fascist are the self-styled 'antifascists'...

Who in their right mind couldn't endorse Keep England White Winnie?

Perhaps the only conceivable positive of our losing WW2 would have been the hilarious experience of people who call Winston Churchill a fascist coming face to face with real fascists. They'd have had a rude awokening, and no mistake.

Now is not the time to examine what people actually said, it's time to indulge in some squirrely shit about imagining losing the war.

It's always that other time, isn't it.

rottenborough said:

alterego said:

rottenborough said:

CatMan said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

I should have said 2008, since that's when it finished.

But yes, I agree with you.

Can't remember a single episode that made me laugh once.

You obviously watched them all to make sure. 😉

I'm always fair.

And suffering for it obviously

I've always felt the Tomb of Karl Marx has a very Wizard of Oz feel to it, not sure why.

Beibheirli_C said:

Foxy said:

HYUFD said:

So it looks like Boris gets a pass from his voters even if there is a second wave

I was in this Yougov.

I blame the public and government equally, not least because the public elected a government of fuckwits!

Perhaps this is all part of regaining control?

For a government all about "taking back control" this seems to be one that is unusually chaotic.

I am in the gap between children and grandchildren, so have no skin in the game, but it really is clown car stuff over schools.

Philip_Thompson said:

I saw a post here the other day by someone comparing pneumonia deaths normally and this year in Florida, versus COVID19 deaths in Florida, that appears to show that COVID deaths are getting recorded as pneumonia there. Does anyone have the figures or a source, I can't find anything..

I saw a fact check on that.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/03/facebook-posts/claim-florida-undercounting-covid-19-deaths-uses-f/

Seems like it was a (wilful?) misunderstanding of the way cause of death is recorded, and some curiosities thereof.

alterego said:

Foxy said:

alterego said:

Foxy said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

Comedy is usually patchy. No one reminisces over the filler in Monty Python.

In the second series in particular the gentle eccentricity gave out to gross out comedy. Ting Tong, Bubbles de Vere, and the vomiting racist WI matrons were not funny.

But you obviously remember them well.

Yes, because like much of the country, I watched it. It was popular for a reason.

A lot of comedy dates very badly.

The best doesn't date. If it dates it's not comedic.

A very circular argument of the no true Scotsmen variety.

A lot of stuff considered hilarious years ago is considered rather lame now. The Goodies for example.

Foxy said:

alterego said:

Foxy said:

alterego said:

Foxy said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CatMan said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1270393472240025601

"Times have changed"?!!!! Since 2003?!!!!!

I remember it as being hugely repetitive from episode to episode, but also extremely tasteless.

Comedy is usually patchy. No one reminisces over the filler in Monty Python.

In the second series in particular the gentle eccentricity gave out to gross out comedy. Ting Tong, Bubbles de Vere, and the vomiting racist WI matrons were not funny.

But you obviously remember them well.

Yes, because like much of the country, I watched it. It was popular for a reason.

A lot of comedy dates very badly.

The best doesn't date. If it dates it's not comedic.

A very circular argument of the no true Scotsmen variety.

A lot of stuff considered hilarious years ago is considered rather lame now. The Goodies for example.

Friends is still so popular it was responsible for a significant proportion of all viewing hours when it was on Netflix....discuss...

FrancisUrquhart said:

Friends is still so popular it was responsible for a significant proportion of all viewing hours when it was on Netflix....discuss...

Friends was dreadfully banal. The British version was way, way funnier.

MaxPB said:

eadric said:

flizzy said:

Bring them down. All of them. Colston, Nelson, Churchill, Gandhi, Faucett, Mandela, the lot. We have a saying, 'don't put people on pedestals'. Then what do we do? We literally go and put people on pedestals!

No-one's perfect, not by the standards of their own time, and, as is repeatedly pointed out, certainly not by those of the future.

But there's another problem as well that's been ignored, but I heard, I think during a R4 programme at the time of Rhodes must fall. It's not just a question of who gets a statue but of who doesn't. Wilberforce is most definitely on the right side of history; he dedicated his life to fighting Atlantic slavery. But so did many Africans and former slaves, taking far greater risks to do so than him. Yet there are no statues of them, in many cases their names are completely lost to history. So by putting up a statue to Wilberforce and not them we are inadvertently amplifying the racism of the time.

So I guess we can leave the statues of the Unknown Soldier. And put up ones to the Unknown Slave, or the Unknown Suffragist/ette, or even the Unknown Prime Minister?

However, I'm not liking the equivocation with Marx's gravestone. The bar for getting a statue is very very high, the bar for getting a gravestone is very very low, so I'd let gravestones stand.

Hello everyone, I've been lurking here since June 2016, and reading headers for a while longer.

Amazing, Marx can stay. Well well well

But welcome, nonetheless

It's also not an ordinary gravestone in an ordinary graveyard. More than happy to have it moved to different cemetery with an ordinary gravestone though if we're dumping everything...

Ed might be looking for a new one.

eadric said:

I'm hearing claims that the statue of Millligan was protected, as being part of the Grade 1 listed complex of the West India Docks.

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1242440

This was my assumption, which made me legally question Khan's/Tower Hamlets' move, is this even legal?

The statue was fine, bronze, in context, and 200 years old. Surely protected?

But maybe a site can be listed yet the integral statues are not? Any lawyers here?

Trees can be protected by legal orders, I would be astounded if statues around or a part of a historic site cannot as well, though whether they generally are I do not know. But it'd take a member of the public with deep pockets to challenge the legality of any such move I'd bet, so seems unlikely.

Richard_Nabavi said:

NickPalmer said:

BluestBlue said:

HYUFD said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

It won't, most voters have a positive view of Churchill, only Labour voters do not.

However even Labour voters are more mixed in their view of him then negative

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1269896392396484609?s=20

Weird how the only people not to endorse a literal anti-fascist are the self-styled 'antifascists'...

Looks quite nuanced to me. Only a tiny proportion take a predominantly negative view. I know people across the spectrum who have mixed feelings about him, though most of us focus mainly on the positive sides.

Nuanced? This is the man who can quite reasonably be said to have saved European civilisation from what could easily have been a century of barbarism. There's no room for nuance.

Well my grandparents always held that for all that he was a shit. ymmv

eadric said:

kle4 said:

eadric said:

houndtang said:

Andy_JS said:

Gladstone's turn.

https://twitter.com/Dariusaurus/status/1269974803609460738

The statue of Churchill will be down within 3 years.

Maybe. I doubt it.

But if they do try it, expect proper violence in the streets

A small, evil bit of me wants the worst of them to have a go so they are all beaten into a pulp

I don't think there will be violence in the streets defending statues of some people. Resistance, I am sure, so I don't think Churchill for instance is in danger within 3 years, but the 'must fall' people are just more determined and driven. Take out a few by vandalism and, due to the target, watch them not get replaced. Watch others then get removed as a precaution against vandalism. Then see vandalism against more 'mainstream' figures, and cries of it going too far, maybe replacing those ones. But they'll be back. They want it so much more, and are so righteous.

Oh yes, I quite agree.

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

From the Second Coming by Yeats, which was, inter alia, written in reaction to his wife nearly dying in the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918

But in the end these convulsive movements do suddenly and brutally collapse - in general. Look at ISIS, or the French Terror, or the Cultural Revolution. There's a cycle of growing wildness and weirdness, than an abrupt end. And the extremists left at the end usually come to a sticky conclusion.

Let us hope that the UK's conclusion is legal and political, jail time maybe, and not street thuggery and physical revenge (which I fear is highly possible)

You're onto something there. "These convulsive movements do suddenly and brutally collapse."
Brexiters, Bolsonaro and Trump in government.
Utterly and viscerally exposed in the apricity of an existential crisis to be entirely and woefully flaccidly impotent.