Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
The LDs best results have always been with the other parties close to the centre. If the others are extreme, especially Labour extreme, they get squeezed heavily.
If I were the LDs I'd be very worried about those Ashcroft numbers. Huge numbers of their voters voted for them reluctantly and negatively. That doesn't bode well.
Maybe. But even more people voted Labour and Con reluctantly and negatively. We need to change the voting system so that people can vote confidently and safely for what they really do want.
If I were the LDs I'd be very worried about those Ashcroft numbers.
Huge numbers of their voters voted for them reluctantly and negatively.
That doesn't bode well.
That's the whole danger of pitching up on the wrong side of losing battle. The LDs are claiming small comfort from an improved share of the vote, but once we leave in some form much of that vote has little reason to hang around.
I guess the Tory 2017 remain vote is up for grabs at the next GE. By then those will judge Johnson on a 5 year record rather than personality or his manifesto. If he delivers there are plenty of LD2019 votes to win back, if he doesnt there are plenty of votes to lose.
The Tories won't suffer him for long if he's not on their game.
On his game for who? He may do very well for one group and badly for another. It will be very difficult if not impossible to do well for all his coalition, no idea what his prioritisation will be between the traditional and new tories.
The point is to find policies which work across the coalition - scrapping the Telly tax seems like an easy win when he needs it for example.
Passing the tax burden onto the young workers? Or privatising the BBC?
Decriminalise license fee non-payment with a notice period for the BBC to work out how it wants to fund itself. Popular with tory base and northern working class alike. Anathama for young liberals and metro media types who are not voting Tory anyway.
May as well privatise the BBC at the same time then and get some cash in to the coffers. Id imagine radically changing the BBC doesnt actually play well with the Tory base who are elderly, they just dont like having to pay for it. Youngsters wouldnt really care, many wouldnt notice.
This is just one of the many new conflicts that will develop between the libertarian small-staters at the heart of the Brexit project, and the nostalgic social conservatives that they sold the project to. I expect the latter will be shafted when they are no longer useful, but I suspect that is still a few years away from the penny dropping with them.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
Boris has proven he can confound critics like myself and others, and he has definitely proven he can get results through decisive action. But his very unpredictability means the jury will always be out as he has hinted at many things good and very bad and who the hell knows.
Continued from earlier – thoughts of a dejected Labour supporter:
So much of what happens in politics can be reasonably accurately viewed as a reaction to what has gone before. So with Corbynism, which arose as a reaction to 1) austerity, in the country at large and 2) the Iraq War and its consequences, in the Labour Party.
I believe few would argue that JC wasn’t on the right side of history back in 2003, just as he is sadly on the wrong side of it right now. The same instincts that served him well back then have been the cause of some of our biggest problems in the past 4 years. I honestly believe (I know I’m going to take some stick for this) that his foreign policy positions come from a place of compassion, and a desire to be on the side of the oppressed.
Unfortunately, at times his judgement in this respect has been poor. The Andrew Neil interview was a case in point in two respects. Failure to apologise for the antisemitism in the party was a mis-step, and a baffling one as he had done so in the past and would go on to do so again later in the campaign. The second was, for me, worse and I was surprised it didn’t get more coverage – right at the end, when he couldn’t bring himself to say he’d give the hypothetical order to shoot-to-kill the leader of ISIS, surrounded by suicide vest-wearing terrorists. I was screaming at the TV for him to just say “Yes”, but to no avail. That night I was sure he’d destroyed his campaign there and then, but somehow it got lost in the shuffle of the news cycle. Even I would say that level of moral purity is not compatible with political leadership.
So who should be the next Labour leader? Someone who can carry on the positives from the Corbyn era, the mass membership and mobilisation of young voters, but also win back the heartlands – including Leave voters – and push forward the left-wing economic policies that voters want, such as rail nationalisation, with credibility.
I know who I don’t want. Not Keir Starmer, too strong remain and technocratic. Not Rebecca Long-Bailey, too close to Corbyn and not someone I can see heartland voters warming to. Not Emily Thornberry, for much the same reasons (that ‘white van man’ tweet lives long in the memory). And not Jess Phillips, just too much negativity in the recent past. Angela Rayner looks good on paper (and, full disclosure, on my Betfair page) but I need to see more to fully make up my mind.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Yet he’s PM and you’re frothing ineffectually on the internet. For what it’s worth, I very much doubt he’s stupid.
Although nobody could doubt your searing intelligence.
It seems the LK postal vote "insight" was true after all....
Yes, I saw some specific data on this last night in one of the polls - IIRC the Tories won the postals by something like 50-35 - Labour won among those who decided in the final couple of weeks. The same poll showed huge tactical voting, mostly Lib-Lab and Lab-Lib, but that was mostly swamped by the overall tide.
No, that's bullshit. We won postals and we won on the day. We didn't magic a 12 point national lead because of postal votes a couple of weeks early. You're going to need to do a lot of soul searching, not just looking for excuses.
He didn't say everyone on the day. He said people who decided late.
It seems the LK postal vote "insight" was true after all....
Yes, I saw some specific data on this last night in one of the polls - IIRC the Tories won the postals by something like 50-35 - Labour won among those who decided in the final couple of weeks. The same poll showed huge tactical voting, mostly Lib-Lab and Lab-Lib, but that was mostly swamped by the overall tide.
I'm far from convinced the average tactical voter isn't equally as likely to make things worse for their intended outcome.
Another thought, it's amazing how good the Labour ramping operation was in Twitter. Looking at the currency charts the markets definitely looked spooked between 5pm and 9pm and we saw the intraday low of $1.30, honestly, all of that is because of Labour ramping on Twitter. There must have been a lot of smart traders who made a packet on the day.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Reprobate
It's a new word that was coined for Boris earlier in the thread, which I quite like.
I think he could even be described as a master-retrobate.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Reprobate
It's a new word that was coined for Boris earlier in the thread, which I quite like.
I think he could even be described as a master-retrobate.
Moreover ... Boris is not stupid. He is clever, cultivated, witty; he has ideas, he has a strategic understanding of issues and he delegates. He also has pecadilloes not related to his ability to do the job he's been voted into.
Next Scottish parliamentary general election, 6 May 2021 - Most seats
SNP 1/8 Con 8/1 Lab 12/1 LD 33/1 Grn 200/1
(Shadsy)
Is it remotely conceivable that the SNP won’t have most seats? What would have to happen?
Independence.
Yepp.
Yeah that’s fair. It must be quite frustrating to be a Scot who desperately wants Independence but doesn’t actually agree with the SNP platform otherwise.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Yet he’s PM and you’re frothing ineffectually on the internet. For what it’s worth, I very much doubt he’s stupid.
Although nobody could doubt your searing intelligence.
You think he was only pretending to think the DUP supported his deal?
Another thought, it's amazing how good the Labour ramping operation was in Twitter. Looking at the currency charts the markets definitely looked spooked between 5pm and 9pm and we saw the intraday low of $1.30, honestly, all of that is because of Labour ramping on Twitter. There must have been a lot of smart traders who made a packet on the day.
Blatant market manipulation by Momentum. Lock them up and seize the Ferraris they bought yesterday.
Continued from earlier – thoughts of a dejected Labour supporter:
So much of what happens in politics can be reasonably accurately viewed as a reaction to what has gone before. So with Corbynism, which arose as a reaction to 1) austerity, in the country at large and 2) the Iraq War and its consequences, in the Labour Party.
I believe few would argue that JC wasn’t on the right side of history back in 2003, just as he is sadly on the wrong side of it right now. The same instincts that served him well back then have been the cause of some of our biggest problems in the past 4 years. I honestly believe (I know I’m going to take some stick for this) that his foreign policy positions come from a place of compassion, and a desire to be on the side of the oppressed.
Unfortunately, at times his judgement in this respect has been poor. The Andrew Neil interview was a case in point in two respects. Failure to apologise for the antisemitism in the party was a mis-step, and a baffling one as he had done so in the past and would go on to do so again later in the campaign. The second was, for me, worse and I was surprised it didn’t get more coverage – right at the end, when he couldn’t bring himself to say he’d give the hypothetical order to shoot-to-kill the leader of ISIS, surrounded by suicide vest-wearing terrorists. I was screaming at the TV for him to just say “Yes”, but to no avail. That night I was sure he’d destroyed his campaign there and then, but somehow it got lost in the shuffle of the news cycle. Even I would say that level of moral purity is not compatible with political leadership.
So who should be the next Labour leader? Someone who can carry on the positives from the Corbyn era, the mass membership and mobilisation of young voters, but also win back the heartlands – including Leave voters – and push forward the left-wing economic policies that voters want, such as rail nationalisation, with credibility.
I know who I don’t want. Not Keir Starmer, too strong remain and technocratic. Not Rebecca Long-Bailey, too close to Corbyn and not someone I can see heartland voters warming to. Not Emily Thornberry, for much the same reasons (that ‘white van man’ tweet lives long in the memory). And not Jess Phillips, just too much negativity in the recent past. Angela Rayner looks good on paper (and, full disclosure, on my Betfair page) but I need to see more to fully make up my mind.
Broadly agree, but wouldn't rule out Starmer. Remainishness will be irrelevant in 5 years.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Reprobate
It's a new word that was coined for Boris earlier in the thread, which I quite like.
I think he could even be described as a master-retrobate.
Moreover ... Boris is not stupid. He is clever, cultivated, witty; he has ideas, he has a strategic understanding of issues and he delegates. He also has pecadilloes not related to his ability to do the job he's been voted into.
You think he was only pretending to think the DUP supported his deal?
Continued from earlier – thoughts of a dejected Labour supporter:
So much of what happens in politics can be reasonably accurately viewed as a reaction to what has gone before. So with Corbynism, which arose as a reaction to 1) austerity, in the country at large and 2) the Iraq War and its consequences, in the Labour Party.
I believe few would argue that JC wasn’t on the right side of history back in 2003, just as he is sadly on the wrong side of it right now. The same instincts that served him well back then have been the cause of some of our biggest problems in the past 4 years. I honestly believe (I know I’m going to take some stick for this) that his foreign policy positions come from a place of compassion, and a desire to be on the side of the oppressed.
Unfortunately, at times his judgement in this respect has been poor. The Andrew Neil interview was a case in point in two respects. Failure to apologise for the antisemitism in the party was a mis-step, and a baffling one as he had done so in the past and would go on to do so again later in the campaign. The second was, for me, worse and I was surprised it didn’t get more coverage – right at the end, when he couldn’t bring himself to say he’d give the hypothetical order to shoot-to-kill the leader of ISIS, surrounded by suicide vest-wearing terrorists. I was screaming at the TV for him to just say “Yes”, but to no avail. That night I was sure he’d destroyed his campaign there and then, but somehow it got lost in the shuffle of the news cycle. Even I would say that level of moral purity is not compatible with political leadership.
So who should be the next Labour leader? Someone who can carry on the positives from the Corbyn era, the mass membership and mobilisation of young voters, but also win back the heartlands – including Leave voters – and push forward the left-wing economic policies that voters want, such as rail nationalisation, with credibility.
I know who I don’t want. Not Keir Starmer, too strong remain and technocratic. Not Rebecca Long-Bailey, too close to Corbyn and not someone I can see heartland voters warming to. Not Emily Thornberry, for much the same reasons (that ‘white van man’ tweet lives long in the memory). And not Jess Phillips, just too much negativity in the recent past. Angela Rayner looks good on paper (and, full disclosure, on my Betfair page) but I need to see more to fully make up my mind.
Broadly agree, but wouldn't rule out Starmer. Remainishness will be irrelevant in 5 years.
Lol, confirming my point from just now. Labour needs to be done. Marxist politics is finished, you just got smashed by the public despite promising them £140bn worth of freebies.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Reprobate
It's a new word that was coined for Boris earlier in the thread, which I quite like.
I think he could even be described as a master-retrobate.
Moreover ... Boris is not stupid. He is clever, cultivated, witty; he has ideas, he has a strategic understanding of issues and he delegates. He also has pecadilloes not related to his ability to do the job he's been voted into.
You think he was only pretending to think the DUP supported his deal?
I didn’t think to mention Richard Burgon. No thanks.
Lisa Nandy? Her odds are shortening today.
Not sure. Corbyn supporters typically don’t see her as being on their side, whereas they’re often more positive about Rayner. So, it depends how far the membership are prepared to make a clean break from Corbynism.
I didn’t think to mention Richard Burgon. No thanks.
Lisa Nandy? Her odds are shortening today.
She's probably their best bet.
I'm not sure she'll run though.
I'm equally not sure that Rosena AK will run, but I've had this sudden realisation that she's the one person that really did something in the Labour campaign. So, I'm working on having a small bet..
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Reprobate
It's a new word that was coined for Boris earlier in the thread, which I quite like.
I think he could even be described as a master-retrobate.
Moreover ... Boris is not stupid. He is clever, cultivated, witty; he has ideas, he has a strategic understanding of issues and he delegates. He also has pecadilloes not related to his ability to do the job he's been voted into.
You think he was only pretending to think the DUP supported his deal?
Keine Ahnung.
You have no idea why he said something so stupid. You're just insisting he's not stupid. That's just ...
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I still think he's thick and a general "retrobate."
I'm just hoping his selfish and untrustworthy side will cause him to stab the Tory nutters in the back.
.
You think he’s just lucky? Twice Mayor of Labour London, took over leave when 15% behind in the polls and supported by the entire establishment, contrived to get rid of the most dangerous opponents at each round of the Tory leadership campaign, forced an election on his terms and won a smashing victory. Was there not some comment by that South African golfer Player that the more he practiced the luckier he got? He wants to be underestimated and you are swallowing it whole.
I didn't say he was lucky. I said he was stupid and a retrobate.
Of course stupid people can be successful. We see it all the time.
Reprobate
It's a new word that was coined for Boris earlier in the thread, which I quite like.
I think he could even be described as a master-retrobate.
Moreover ... Boris is not stupid. He is clever, cultivated, witty; he has ideas, he has a strategic understanding of issues and he delegates. He also has pecadilloes not related to his ability to do the job he's been voted into.
You think he was only pretending to think the DUP supported his deal?
In half a year, Johnson has taken the Conservatives from a historic nadir of polling 8.8% at a nationwide election to their highest vote share in a national election since Ted Heath in 1970. That is political genius. It doesn't matter that Cummings led in putting together the strategy that achieved that outcome, because Johnson had the political nous to appoint him and back his judgement. And no-one but he should take credit for his charismatic persona which he has cultivated and which has taken him far in his electoral appeal, despite his personal failings. Other than on Brexit, I disagree fundamentally with Johnson's political outlook but I am willing to give him some respect. I suggest you do so too.
Jesus, just been listening to whatever was on on R4. Barry Gardiner came across very well. Layla Moran is a f**king moron, pedalling exactly the sort of stuff that saw them get roundly mocked this election. Oh yes, she's a domestic abuser as well. Can't see what people see in her.
Did I catch just a hint of withdrawal from the general contempt with which Boris has been showered on here? Is he just maybe not so foolish after all despite being dishonest, immoral and a general retrobate?
Boris has won and won big. He has done so by being brave, willing to gamble and being ruthlessly disciplined about his message. It is a measure of his achievements that so many still seem to regard him as a bumbling fool. This is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that we will see what Cameron could have done had he been arsed.
I don’t trust him. But I didn’t trust Blair either and he turned out to be pretty effective, for a while anyway.
I didn’t think to mention Richard Burgon. No thanks.
Lisa Nandy? Her odds are shortening today.
She's probably their best bet.
I'm not sure she'll run though.
I'm equally not sure that Rosena AK will run, but I've had this sudden realisation that she's the one person that really did something in the Labour campaign. So, I'm working on having a small bet..
Just been totting up my modest winnings (would have been a lot better at Con 370+), and browsing the Lab leadership market got 100 on Burgon, and Rosena AK.
I think it will be Rayner though. She was forthright in the debates, tough as nails, loyal to Jezza, but not too close. Hits the sweet spot, though Jess is my big winner. Jess is supported by HH and the sisterhood and has been vocal against anti semitism. Not popular with the Corbynites, but popular with those who want to put Corbynism behind them. Both are good media performers.
Not sure Labour need weeks to decipher the election result. It’s not rocket science , next time have a better leader with a credible manifesto.
I fear they’re going to go down the road of trying to tick the gender box and will foist either Angela Rayner or god forbid RLB onto the PLP .
I’m not interested in an ideologically pure Labour Leader , I want someone who can win elections .
As has been said a few times by you know who , better to have half a loaf then no loaf at all .
It depends what their objectives are. Do better? Easy do as above. Hung parliament? Needs a review, then a plan and finally a leader to fit the plan. Overall majority? Dont start from here.
Not sure Labour need weeks to decipher the election result. It’s not rocket science , next time have a better leader with a credible manifesto.
I fear they’re going to go down the road of trying to tick the gender box and will foist either Angela Rayner or god forbid RLB onto the PLP .
I’m not interested in an ideologically pure Labour Leader , I want someone who can win elections .
As has been said a few times by you know who , better to have half a loaf then no loaf at all .
I wouldn’t bracket Rayner and RLB together. I do think the latter is a continuity Corbynite candidate, whereas Rayner does give me the impression of having a bit more adaptability.
Right now I’m feeling much like you, that first and foremost we need to get someone who can win (and I was very strongly pro-Corbyn back in 2015). But, in this changed political landscape, it’s so hard to judge who that would be. Brexit has changed everything.
I didn’t think to mention Richard Burgon. No thanks.
Lisa Nandy? Her odds are shortening today.
She's probably their best bet.
I'm not sure she'll run though.
I'm equally not sure that Rosena AK will run, but I've had this sudden realisation that she's the one person that really did something in the Labour campaign. So, I'm working on having a small bet..
Just been totting up my modest winnings (would have been a lot better at Con 370+), and browsing the Lab leadership market got 100 on Burgon, and Rosena AK.
I think it will be Rayner though. She was forthright in the debates, tough as nails, loyal to Jezza, but not too close. Hits the sweet spot, though Jess is my big winner. Jess is supported by HH and the sisterhood and has been vocal against anti semitism. Not popular with the Corbynites, but popular with those who want to put Corbynism behind them. Both are good media performers.
I think Rayner too...she's tough and she'll get traction
Jesus, just been listening to whatever was on on R4. Barry Gardiner came across very well. Layla Moran is a f**king moron, pedalling exactly the sort of stuff that saw them get roundly mocked this election. Oh yes, she's a domestic abuser as well. Can't see what people see in her.
I’ve been very impressed by Barry Gardiner in this campaign, one of our best media performers. I’ve not heard any suggestion whatsoever of him being a leadership candidate though.
Not sure Labour need weeks to decipher the election result. It’s not rocket science , next time have a better leader with a credible manifesto.
I fear they’re going to go down the road of trying to tick the gender box and will foist either Angela Rayner or god forbid RLB onto the PLP .
I’m not interested in an ideologically pure Labour Leader , I want someone who can win elections .
As has been said a few times by you know who , better to have half a loaf then no loaf at all .
I wouldn’t bracket Rayner and RLB together. I do think the latter is a continuity Corbynite candidate, whereas Rayner does give me the impression of having a bit more adaptability.
Right now I’m feeling much like you, that first and foremost we need to get someone who can win (and I was very strongly pro-Corbyn back in 2015). But, in this changed political landscape, it’s so hard to judge who that would be. Brexit has changed everything.
When you were strongly pro Corbyn in 2015 you obviously were not thinking of who could win in an election.....
If I were the LDs I'd be very worried about those Ashcroft numbers.
Huge numbers of their voters voted for them reluctantly and negatively.
That doesn't bode well.
That's the whole danger of pitching up on the wrong side of losing battle. The LDs are claiming small comfort from an improved share of the vote, but once we leave in some form much of that vote has little reason to hang around.
I guess the Tory 2017 remain vote is up for grabs at the next GE. By then those will judge Johnson on a 5 year record rather than personality or his manifesto. If he delivers there are plenty of LD2019 votes to win back, if he doesnt there are plenty of votes to lose.
The Tories won't suffer him for long if he's not on their game.
On his game for who? He may do very well for one group and badly for another. It will be very difficult if not impossible to do well for all his coalition, no idea what his prioritisation will be between the traditional and new tories.
The point is to find policies which work across the coalition - scrapping the Telly tax seems like an easy win when he needs it for example.
Passing the tax burden onto the young workers? Or privatising the BBC?
Decriminalise license fee non-payment with a notice period for the BBC to work out how it wants to fund itself. Popular with tory base and northern working class alike. Anathama for young liberals and metro media types who are not voting Tory anyway.
May as well privatise the BBC at the same time then and get some cash in to the coffers. Id imagine radically changing the BBC doesnt actually play well with the Tory base who are elderly, they just dont like having to pay for it. Youngsters wouldnt really care, many wouldnt notice.
This is just one of the many new conflicts that will develop between the libertarian small-staters at the heart of the Brexit project, and the nostalgic social conservatives that they sold the project to. I expect the latter will be shafted when they are no longer useful, but I suspect that is still a few years away from the penny dropping with them.
Some Tory voters would like the idea but not the reality of messing with the BBC. Bits of it are remarkably precious to quite a lot of people.
Jesus, just been listening to whatever was on on R4. Barry Gardiner came across very well. Layla Moran is a f**king moron, pedalling exactly the sort of stuff that saw them get roundly mocked this election. Oh yes, she's a domestic abuser as well. Can't see what people see in her.
If she was in the Tories (and dare I say it, Labour) she wouldn't get beyond the backbenches.
Arsenal have distanced themselves from comments made by Mesut Özil on Instagram, in which he spoke out strongly against China’s persecution of the Uighur population in the north-western region of Xinjiang and criticised Muslims for not doing more to highlight the issue.
The club certainly didn't distance themselves from Wenger signing the pro-Remain letter in 2016. I don't have a problem with Arsenal doing business with China, whether they do or don't doesn't change the situation with the Uighur (that would need a global boycott), but it disgusts me to see the club going out of their way to distance themselves from criticism that is so obviously fair.
Not sure Labour need weeks to decipher the election result. It’s not rocket science , next time have a better leader with a credible manifesto.
I fear they’re going to go down the road of trying to tick the gender box and will foist either Angela Rayner or god forbid RLB onto the PLP .
I’m not interested in an ideologically pure Labour Leader , I want someone who can win elections .
As has been said a few times by you know who , better to have half a loaf then no loaf at all .
I wouldn’t bracket Rayner and RLB together. I do think the latter is a continuity Corbynite candidate, whereas Rayner does give me the impression of having a bit more adaptability.
Right now I’m feeling much like you, that first and foremost we need to get someone who can win (and I was very strongly pro-Corbyn back in 2015). But, in this changed political landscape, it’s so hard to judge who that would be. Brexit has changed everything.
When you were strongly pro Corbyn in 2015 you obviously were not thinking of who could win in an election.....
I mainly wanted a Labour Party that stood for something! Back then they couldn’t even bring themselves to vote against benefit cuts, they were so timid. Scared of the right-wing press.
That’s certainly not the case, and the Corbyn era has also brought about a massive upsurge in membership and political engagement among younger people. And, a real electoral achievement in 2017.
Then, things went south which was the subject of my posts earlier on this evening. Now it’s time to move on.
I’d be happy to see Hilary Benn as leader . A great speaker , good with detail and importantly can’t be portrayed as a metropolitan elite .
He can't?
Boris rebranded himself as a gritty man of the people so anything is possible.
The moment I became serene about this election was when Hard Hat Man held up that WE ❤ BORIS sign. That was the thumbs up that he was OK. One of us. You got our votes.
I’d be happy to see Hilary Benn as leader . A great speaker , good with detail and importantly can’t be portrayed as a metropolitan elite .
He can't?
Boris rebranded himself as a gritty man of the people so anything is possible.
The moment I became serene about this election was when Hard Hat Man held up that WE ❤ BORIS sign. That was the thumbs up that he was OK. One of us. You got our votes.
The End.
You only had to hear from the man in the street how much Corbyn was loathed.. Its was as much that as Brexit.
Sad to report that Twitter believes this to be a parody.
You can understand why.
A Twitter-sized credibility problem.
It makes you wonder whether Twitter might be put out of business one day by the fact that it's impossible to tell which accounts on the platform are satire/parody and which are not.
Arsenal have distanced themselves from comments made by Mesut Özil on Instagram, in which he spoke out strongly against China’s persecution of the Uighur population in the north-western region of Xinjiang and criticised Muslims for not doing more to highlight the issue.
The club certainly didn't distance themselves from Wenger signing the pro-Remain letter in 2016. I don't have a problem with Arsenal doing business with China, whether they do or don't doesn't change the situation with the Uighur (that would need a global boycott), but it disgusts me to see the club going out of their way to distance themselves from criticism that is so obviously fair.
There is a how does one deal with a totalitarian regime which is the 2nd biggest economy in the World question. And whose internet is censored within an inch of its life (see the Winnie the Pooh issues) which means that strident nationalism is the only certainty permitted emotion. I know China quite well and even the people who I see as relatively western-focussed and liberal have remarkably strong views about minorities which threaten the Han hegemony. And the China I know is the wealthy, Huangpu China. One suspects that as one heads to, for example, Shaanxi, views become more robust.
If that sounded that a long, I understand but I don’t know how to deal with it, you’d be right.
Next Scottish parliamentary general election, 6 May 2021 - Most seats
SNP 1/8 Con 8/1 Lab 12/1 LD 33/1 Grn 200/1
(Shadsy)
Is it remotely conceivable that the SNP won’t have most seats? What would have to happen?
Independence.
Yepp.
Yeah that’s fair. It must be quite frustrating to be a Scot who desperately wants Independence but doesn’t actually agree with the SNP platform otherwise.
Not really. The SNP is simply a tool for the Scottish nation to lever ourselves to sovereignty. Once we have achieved our goal, we will discard the old tool. (Or at least catalogue and archive the redundant artefact.)
I will resign my membership upon independence and will thenceforth campaign vigorously against any SNP candidates. I am far from alone in that intention.
Arsenal have distanced themselves from comments made by Mesut Özil on Instagram, in which he spoke out strongly against China’s persecution of the Uighur population in the north-western region of Xinjiang and criticised Muslims for not doing more to highlight the issue.
The club certainly didn't distance themselves from Wenger signing the pro-Remain letter in 2016. I don't have a problem with Arsenal doing business with China, whether they do or don't doesn't change the situation with the Uighur (that would need a global boycott), but it disgusts me to see the club going out of their way to distance themselves from criticism that is so obviously fair.
What did Arsenal say about Hector Bellerin's F#### Boris posts yesterday ?
Not sure Labour need weeks to decipher the election result. It’s not rocket science , next time have a better leader with a credible manifesto.
I fear they’re going to go down the road of trying to tick the gender box and will foist either Angela Rayner or god forbid RLB onto the PLP .
I’m not interested in an ideologically pure Labour Leader , I want someone who can win elections .
As has been said a few times by you know who , better to have half a loaf then no loaf at all .
I wouldn’t bracket Rayner and RLB together. I do think the latter is a continuity Corbynite candidate, whereas Rayner does give me the impression of having a bit more adaptability.
Right now I’m feeling much like you, that first and foremost we need to get someone who can win (and I was very strongly pro-Corbyn back in 2015). But, in this changed political landscape, it’s so hard to judge who that would be. Brexit has changed everything.
When you were strongly pro Corbyn in 2015 you obviously were not thinking of who could win in an election.....
I mainly wanted a Labour Party that stood for something! Back then they couldn’t even bring themselves to vote against benefit cuts, they were so timid. Scared of the right-wing press.
That’s certainly not the case, and the Corbyn era has also brought about a massive upsurge in membership and political engagement among younger people. And, a real electoral achievement in 2017.
Then, things went south which was the subject of my posts earlier on this evening. Now it’s time to move on.
I voted for Corbyn in 2015 for similar reasons. He was the only non-vanilla candidate.
However it quickly became apparent that he wasn't up to the job. He was flattered in 2017 by May being so crap, but he should have gone long before now.
I continue to support the bulk of our policies, but they need to be delivered in a smart way. And fronted by the right leader.
Jesus, just been listening to whatever was on on R4. Barry Gardiner came across very well. Layla Moran is a f**king moron, pedalling exactly the sort of stuff that saw them get roundly mocked this election. Oh yes, she's a domestic abuser as well. Can't see what people see in her.
I’ve been very impressed by Barry Gardiner in this campaign, one of our best media performers. I’ve not heard any suggestion whatsoever of him being a leadership candidate though.
Sadly he ruled out standing, can't see many moderates who would want to put their head up above the parapet and spend the next 5 years having the Maomentum tendency taking potshots at them. Especially with little realistic prospect of a 2024 majority.
Not sure Labour need weeks to decipher the election result. It’s not rocket science , next time have a better leader with a credible manifesto.
I fear they’re going to go down the road of trying to tick the gender box and will foist either Angela Rayner or god forbid RLB onto the PLP .
I’m not interested in an ideologically pure Labour Leader , I want someone who can win elections .
As has been said a few times by you know who , better to have half a loaf then no loaf at all .
I wouldn’t bracket Rayner and RLB together. I do think the latter is a continuity Corbynite candidate, whereas Rayner does give me the impression of having a bit more adaptability.
Right now I’m feeling much like you, that first and foremost we need to get someone who can win (and I was very strongly pro-Corbyn back in 2015). But, in this changed political landscape, it’s so hard to judge who that would be. Brexit has changed everything.
When you were strongly pro Corbyn in 2015 you obviously were not thinking of who could win in an election.....
I mainly wanted a Labour Party that stood for something! Back then they couldn’t even bring themselves to vote against benefit cuts, they were so timid. Scared of the right-wing press.
That’s certainly not the case, and the Corbyn era has also brought about a massive upsurge in membership and political engagement among younger people. And, a real electoral achievement in 2017.
Then, things went south which was the subject of my posts earlier on this evening. Now it’s time to move on.
Labour were heading for a shellacking in 2017 had it not been for May's atrocious campaign...
The Corbyn era has brought in a swathe of new members who have drunk at the alter of St Jezzziah in their posturing, and fucked over the party's electoral chances...
Quite frankly your post to want now an electable leader (ie one that can find some kind of credibility with the media and capital) after 5 years of this disastrous left wing experiment...I hope you have some sense of irony
Comments
https://twitter.com/BackBurgon/status/1205550317913432064
If only Betfair had let me put more on my incredibly brilliant incredible value spot of SNP under 55.5 seats.
If only.
So much of what happens in politics can be reasonably accurately viewed as a reaction to what has gone before. So with Corbynism, which arose as a reaction to 1) austerity, in the country at large and 2) the Iraq War and its consequences, in the Labour Party.
I believe few would argue that JC wasn’t on the right side of history back in 2003, just as he is sadly on the wrong side of it right now. The same instincts that served him well back then have been the cause of some of our biggest problems in the past 4 years. I honestly believe (I know I’m going to take some stick for this) that his foreign policy positions come from a place of compassion, and a desire to be on the side of the oppressed.
Unfortunately, at times his judgement in this respect has been poor. The Andrew Neil interview was a case in point in two respects. Failure to apologise for the antisemitism in the party was a mis-step, and a baffling one as he had done so in the past and would go on to do so again later in the campaign. The second was, for me, worse and I was surprised it didn’t get more coverage – right at the end, when he couldn’t bring himself to say he’d give the hypothetical order to shoot-to-kill the leader of ISIS, surrounded by suicide vest-wearing terrorists. I was screaming at the TV for him to just say “Yes”, but to no avail. That night I was sure he’d destroyed his campaign there and then, but somehow it got lost in the shuffle of the news cycle. Even I would say that level of moral purity is not compatible with political leadership.
So who should be the next Labour leader? Someone who can carry on the positives from the Corbyn era, the mass membership and mobilisation of young voters, but also win back the heartlands – including Leave voters – and push forward the left-wing economic policies that voters want, such as rail nationalisation, with credibility.
I know who I don’t want. Not Keir Starmer, too strong remain and technocratic. Not Rebecca Long-Bailey, too close to Corbyn and not someone I can see heartland voters warming to. Not Emily Thornberry, for much the same reasons (that ‘white van man’ tweet lives long in the memory). And not Jess Phillips, just too much negativity in the recent past. Angela Rayner looks good on paper (and, full disclosure, on my Betfair page) but I need to see more to fully make up my mind.
Although nobody could doubt your searing intelligence.
Which matches the Ashcroft polling.
I think he could even be described as a master-retrobate.
He can no longer just tell us he's taking soundings, he has to act. Where's the nearest car park for the key meeting?
Bet accordingly.
I'm not sure she'll run though.
I'm equally not sure that Rosena AK will run, but I've had this sudden realisation that she's the one person that really did something in the Labour campaign. So, I'm working on having a small bet..
Cracking trolling though.
Wot?
Really?
I fear they’re going to go down the road of trying to tick the gender box and will foist either Angela Rayner or god forbid RLB onto the PLP .
I’m not interested in an ideologically pure Labour Leader , I want someone who can win elections .
As has been said a few times by you know who , better to have half a loaf then no loaf at all .
DOPE
I tried to write the article without letting my personal views colour it too much. And in this article - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/08/foxes-and-hedgehogs/ I pointed out that Boris and the ERG have had a better strategy.
I think it will be Rayner though. She was forthright in the debates, tough as nails, loyal to Jezza, but not too close. Hits the sweet spot, though Jess is my big winner. Jess is supported by HH and the sisterhood and has been vocal against anti semitism. Not popular with the Corbynites, but popular with those who want to put Corbynism behind them. Both are good media performers.
Right now I’m feeling much like you, that first and foremost we need to get someone who can win (and I was very strongly pro-Corbyn back in 2015). But, in this changed political landscape, it’s so hard to judge who that would be. Brexit has changed everything.
And I've put a ton on her
In seriousness, I think he'd be excellent, but has pissed off the Momentum types so not much chance.
https://tinyurl.com/uloq4sh
Arsenal have distanced themselves from comments made by Mesut Özil on Instagram, in which he spoke out strongly against China’s persecution of the Uighur population in the north-western region of Xinjiang and criticised Muslims for not doing more to highlight the issue.
The club certainly didn't distance themselves from Wenger signing the pro-Remain letter in 2016. I don't have a problem with Arsenal doing business with China, whether they do or don't doesn't change the situation with the Uighur (that would need a global boycott), but it disgusts me to see the club going out of their way to distance themselves from criticism that is so obviously fair.
That’s certainly not the case, and the Corbyn era has also brought about a massive upsurge in membership and political engagement among younger people. And, a real electoral achievement in 2017.
Then, things went south which was the subject of my posts earlier on this evening. Now it’s time to move on.
For me it was Bolsover.. Where was the beast of Bolsover at the declaration?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1216645/Bolsover-election-results-2019-dennis-skinner-labour-party-Conservative-Mark-Fletcher
The End.
Philip Collins
Jo Swinson and her party comprehensively failed their audition to become the new centre-left force in British politics"
{Not sure if this is behind a paywall or not}
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-lib-dems-had-their-chance-and-blew-it-7ps7v5rtx?shareToken=d91cc586cb2caee457051ab3ee6994a2
https://twitter.com/khaliistan_1984/status/1205601610103230465
A Twitter-sized credibility problem.
If that sounded that a long, I understand but I don’t know how to deal with it, you’d be right.
I will resign my membership upon independence and will thenceforth campaign vigorously against any SNP candidates. I am far from alone in that intention.
However it quickly became apparent that he wasn't up to the job. He was flattered in 2017 by May being so crap, but he should have gone long before now.
I continue to support the bulk of our policies, but they need to be delivered in a smart way. And fronted by the right leader.
SORTED
The Corbyn era has brought in a swathe of new members who have drunk at the alter of St Jezzziah in their posturing, and fucked over the party's electoral chances...
Quite frankly your post to want now an electable leader (ie one that can find some kind of credibility with the media and capital) after 5 years of this disastrous left wing experiment...I hope you have some sense of irony
https://twitter.com/emharris33/status/1205554315999481864/photo/2
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-suffolk-50778921/election-results-2019-ex-labour-ipswich-mp-sandy-martin-takes-aim-at-lies
No, SIX
SEVEN