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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » European Elections 2009 : Summary of Results
Conservatives 4,193,706 votes (27.63%) winning 272 count areas and 25 MEP’s
United Kingdom Independence Party 2,495,782 votes (16.44%) winning 9 count areas and 13 MEP’s
Labour 2,375,361 votes (15.65%) winning 59 count areas and 13 MEP’s
Liberal Democrats 2,078,723 votes (13.70%) winning 11 count areas and 11 MEP’s
Green Party 1,302,705 votes (8.58%) winning 3…
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Ealing Borough, please Harry0
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Harry I assume the Scottish districts were the 32 Local Authority areas and the blue ones were therefore
Dumfries and Galloway
Scottish Borders
South Ayrshire
East Renfrewshire
Is this correct? What were the numbers in these and were there any other Scottish areas where the Tories were within 5-10% of the winning party?0 -
Norwich City,please,Harry.Thanks for for your hard toil.0
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Awesome map Harry and sorry to be 'that guy' but you don't need an apostrophe in MEPs; it's plural.0
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Based upon the above graphic redrawing the Anglo-Scot border could be problematic. In 2009 it may have worked - given 2010 returned double-figure Lib-Dhimmie "pandas" in Northhuhn Britischershire: 2015 would be a different kettle of fish to land a Berwick!
Still; they won't grow a pair. Sad, but true....0 -
Cheshire West?0
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I'm waiting for the Scottish Nationalists to complain that the map's wrong, and that Shetland and the Orkneys have been placed in the wrong place, and that it does not give enough prominence to Dunnet Head ...0
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“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Nail. Head.
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
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Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Thatguy.0
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Current area - Wakefield, my area at the time - Bradford.0
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Guido takes a maths lesson:
Guido Fawkes @GuidoFawkes 6m
Sums Don’t Add Up for Times Front Page UKIP Story http://guyfawk.es/1etbDtG
Someones lying through their teeth, and it aint Nigel0 -
Nail. Head.Mick_Pork said:“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
If The Independent knew anything about how to sell and market an attractive product, more than one person in a thousand would buy their paper.0 -
Wicked "Tory England" to move the Anglo-Scot Maritime border directly from some place in Pentlands (Pinkie Cleugh?) up to Scapa-Flow. If only we were as dishonest as the First-Parish-Monster....JosiasJessop said:I'm waiting for the Scottish Nationalists to complain that the map's wrong, and that Shetland and the Orkneys have been placed in the wrong place, and that it does not give enough prominence to Dunnet Head ...
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If The Independent knew anything about how to sell and market an attractive product, more than one person in a thousand would buy their paper.david_herdson said:
Nail. Head.Mick_Pork said:“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
You sure they just didn't know how to get the juiciest scoops? Or perhaps they thought the better of going down that particular 'route' for some reason?
LOL
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Nail. Head.Mick_Pork said:“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
Actually, the BBC News tonight (the one that didn't mention the Farage story) ran the Hammond visit in a way that was critical of the No campaign0 -
Actually, the BBC News tonight (the one that didn't mention the Farage story) ran the Hammond visit in a way that was critical of the No campaignisam said:
Nail. Head.Mick_Pork said:“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
I know and they weren't the only ones. It would seem that the obvious is finally beginning to sink in for those not hopelessly trapped inside the westminster bubble.0 -
@Mick_Pork
'http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
The Conman just needs to offer each Scottish voter £500,sort out his women problem and then seal the deal.....or maybe not.0 -
BBC Scotland News ✔ @BBCScotlandNews
You can watch the BBC Scotland Referendum Debate on BBC Two and online here http://bbc.in/P3GaC4 at 9 and later on the iPlayer #bbcindyref
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Dave Camoron @EtonOldBoys
Peter Bone: Tory MP Investigated Over Expenses... The Tories are just becoming more unelectable every day, this time its only £89,000 FFS
Maybe that will sort the incompetent fop's woman problem out?
The Independent @Independent
If Maria Miller was called Mark Miller, she'd be sacked by now, says Tory MP http://ind.pn/PXQo84 pic.twitter.com/GRw6VPDxm9
Or not.
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I'm looking forward to the apology.MikeK said:Guido takes a maths lesson:
Guido Fawkes @GuidoFawkes 6m
Sums Don’t Add Up for Times Front Page UKIP Story http://guyfawk.es/1etbDtG
Someones lying through their teeth, and it aint Nigel0 -
You sure they just didn't know how to get the juiciest scoops? Or perhaps they thought the better of going down that particular 'route' for some reason?Mick_Pork said:
If The Independent knew anything about how to sell and market an attractive product, more than one person in a thousand would buy their paper.david_herdson said:
Nail. Head.Mick_Pork said:“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
LOL
Once upon a time, The Independent used to be a quality newspaper. We used to have it delivered when I were a lad. However, it became more and more campaigning, more and more left wing, and contained less and less quality journalism (i.e. reporting the events of the day / investigations into matters of interest).
I'll say it again: only about one person in a thousand buys their paper. In political terms, that makes them about as popular as the Natural Law Party.
And going back to the piece you linked to, it was a classic example. It wasn't about keeping the Union together for any better reason than trying to improve the Left's chances of winning elections. Never mind the West Lothian Question, the author simply wanted the 59 Scottish MPs to impose on England social policies he favours but fears couldn't be done without them. The irony is he cites the resentment that was caused by the reverse WLQ instance of the Poll Tax but can't see why the same shouldn't apply the other way round.0 -
FPT. Alanbrooke 'and Salmond's actions will be ?'
One of funniest episodes on Twitter was SNP Defence MP Angus Robertson's Corporal Jones style panicked tweets when the Russian Navy pulled into the Moray Firth to take shelter from a big storm. The panic then turned to outrage and demands that something be done about them fly tipping, I kid you not. I have this vision now of Alex Salmond standing there like Captain Mannering, and claiming that any enemy will rue the day that they try any incursions into an Independent Scotland as the sum total of the SNP Defence policy!
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Nail. Head.Mick_Pork said:“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/it-is-the-english-who-should-be-on-their-knees-begging-the-scots-to-vote-no-9262631.html
Norman's rather too fond of vulgar racial and national stereotypes for my liking. I'm not surprised that you enjoy his dross.
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Sorry to be dim, Harry, but you're inviting us to ask in a comment below what our local area result was in 2009? Rather than put you to the trouble, we could just google it, so I think I've misunderstood what you meant.0
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Presumably Bettertogether must have put the wrong date on the publicity for one of their (very) few open events.
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside
Better Together event tonight in Stirling. Bearing in mind we have an MSP and an MP on panel. http://tinyurl.com/oowg92h0 -
While the header is correct, I should point out that the Tories gained a seat in 2011 in the West Midlands Euro Constituency, as a result of the allocation of one extra seat to that region under the Treaty of Lisbon.
Thus they will be defending 26 seats, not 25...0 -
I was a bit confused myself Nick. Think he means:NickPalmer said:Sorry to be dim, Harry, but you're inviting us to ask in a comment below what our local area result was in 2009? Rather than put you to the trouble, we could just google it, so I think I've misunderstood what you meant.
'I am therefore opening the comments section for people to ask them what their local area result was in 2009.'
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Conspiracy theory alert, interesting though! The premise is that the Times deliberately published wrong information so Farage can sue and use the money for his campaign:
"It would not be the first time a media mughul has channelled funds to a politician via a libel payment. Such unrestricted funds would avoid all sorts of regulatory obstacles."
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david_herdson said:
I'll say it again: only about one person in a thousand buys their paper. In political terms, that makes them about as popular as the Natural Law Party.
Or Maria Miller. Bit rich to try and shoot the messenger today given how the PB tories have been pointing at the kippers over the Times amusing 'scoop'.
You don't seriously expect Labour to commit the lions share of the resources and actual activists to the campaign on the ground just to please the tories and Cammie do you? They're obviously doing it out of self-interest and we all know they are. You don't need to like their reasons but don't pretend the tories didn't do the precise same thing for the AV vote. That was self-interest too.david_herdson said:And going back to the piece you linked to, it was a classic example. It wasn't about keeping the Union together for any better reason than trying to improve the Left's chances of winning elections.
Which neatly encapsulates Cammie and the coalitions policy on it. Sorry, but you don't get to whine about Labour's obvious reluctance to tackle the WLQ when the McKay commission reported long ago and despite a coalition pledge to tackle it from Clegg and Cammie they've gone VERY quiet on it while hoping the tory backbenchers haven't noticed. If Cammie doesn't want to legislate on it fine, but you can be certain labour will do nothing about it if he doesn't.david_herdson said:Never mind the West Lothian Question
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I cant help feeling that the recent Farage - Clegg debates were as disastrous to the "Better Together" cause as they were to the Libdem/EU cause. After all, the arguments Farage used so well with regard to the UK in the EU equally apply to Scotland in the UK. If New Zealand can prosper alone there is absolutely no reason why Scotland cannot. Whether it would under Wee Eck or the Scottish Labour Party is another matter entirely, but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote on the matter so people in the ballot box may take the long term view.0
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Ha! Great story, whether true or not.nigel4england said:Conspiracy theory alert, interesting though! The premise is that the Times deliberately published wrong information so Farage can sue and use the money for his campaign:
"It would not be the first time a media mughul has channelled funds to a politician via a libel payment. Such unrestricted funds would avoid all sorts of regulatory obstacles."
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Not exactly inspiring levels of turnout! Was this taken mid-event or are they still waiting on people to arrive?Theuniondivvie said:Presumably Bettertogether must have put the wrong date on the publicity for one of their (very) few open events.
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside
Better Together event tonight in Stirling. Bearing in mind we have an MSP and an MP on panel. http://tinyurl.com/oowg92h0 -
We did this on the last thread...nigel4england said:Conspiracy theory alert, interesting though! The premise is that the Times deliberately published wrong information so Farage can sue and use the money for his campaign:
"It would not be the first time a media mughul has channelled funds to a politician via a libel payment. Such unrestricted funds would avoid all sorts of regulatory obstacles."
@GuidoFawkes: Payback Times: Hack Hits Back at ‘Kipper http://t.co/CzFwxQKiYR
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@bbclaurak: on #newsnight - is Labour having its own cost of living crisis? we talk to @ShabanaMahmood, more from @ggatehouse in Ukraine0
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Laura Kuenssberg ✔ @bbclaurak
on #newsnight - is Labour having its own cost of living crisis? we talk to @ShabanaMahmood, more from @ggatehouse in Ukraine
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Previous tweet below. It was a very nice day today!RobD said:
Not exactly inspiring levels of turnout! Was this taken mid-event or are they still waiting on people to arrive?Theuniondivvie said:Presumably Bettertogether must have put the wrong date on the publicity for one of their (very) few open events.
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside
Better Together event tonight in Stirling. Bearing in mind we have an MSP and an MP on panel. http://tinyurl.com/oowg92h
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside 2h
Liz Smith MSP and Anne McGuire MP have attracted less than 25 vs over 150 for last night's Yes vs No debate. Its the good weather apparently
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"It is not for me to defend this system: after all, I want it abolished. Ever since 1999, I have expressly stated that Ukip MEPs will use the wherewithal provided by the EU Parliament to campaign for Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union.
In their editorial on Monday, even The Times had to admit that it was “probable” that I have done nothing illegal – I have always said that I will use all legal means to get us out of the EU, and I make absolutely no apologies for using EU money to do it.
We don’t like the Westminster bubble keeping our lawmakers, newspaper editors and commentators living in a different world to the rest of the country. If they are worried about Ukip’s increasing popularity, they need only look in a mirror to see who to blame.
And if they want to continue to kick the underdog they might be surprised by the results."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-im-taking-on-the-status-quo-and-the-establishments-fighting-back-9262535.html0 -
Theuniondivvie said:
Previous tweet below. It was a very nice day today!RobD said:
Not exactly inspiring levels of turnout! Was this taken mid-event or are they still waiting on people to arrive?Theuniondivvie said:Presumably Bettertogether must have put the wrong date on the publicity for one of their (very) few open events.
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside
Better Together event tonight in Stirling. Bearing in mind we have an MSP and an MP on panel. http://tinyurl.com/oowg92h
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside 2h
Liz Smith MSP and Anne McGuire MP have attracted less than 25 vs over 150 for last night's Yes vs No debate. Its the good weather apparently
Amazing that 25 people should turn up for such a boring event.Theuniondivvie said:
Previous tweet below. It was a very nice day today!RobD said:
Not exactly inspiring levels of turnout! Was this taken mid-event or are they still waiting on people to arrive?Theuniondivvie said:Presumably Bettertogether must have put the wrong date on the publicity for one of their (very) few open events.
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside
Better Together event tonight in Stirling. Bearing in mind we have an MSP and an MP on panel. http://tinyurl.com/oowg92h
Michael J Ironside @m_j_Ironside 2h
Liz Smith MSP and Anne McGuire MP have attracted less than 25 vs over 150 for last night's Yes vs No debate. Its the good weather apparently
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This.fitalass said:One of funniest episodes on Twitter was
#CameronJesus
The Independent @Independent
David Cameron says he is carrying out the work of Jesus and compares himself to a Dyno-rod http://ind.pn/1jvT1Iw
AnneFaeGlesga. @AGlesca Apr 11
Im worried about the quality of the champagne in WM Cameron thinks he is Jesus or Dyno rod Robertson talks of "dark forces! #Armageddon oot!
Nat Guest @unfortunatalie
I'm still laughing about David Cameron saying "Think of me as a giant Dyno-Rod". http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-claims-jesus-invented-the-big-society--he-is-just-continuing-gods-work-9250449.html …
I don't need to imagine the incompetent fop said it because he did.
*chortle*
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Twitter
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak 2h
Labour source tells me party's econ policy so far is made up of 'bits + bobs' that aren't going to convince'Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: on #newsnight - is Labour having its own cost of living crisis? we talk to @ShabanaMahmood, more from @ggatehouse in Ukraine
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Something else the Times either wilfully ignored or are too thick to understand:isam said:"It is not for me to defend this system: after all, I want it abolished. Ever since 1999, I have expressly stated that Ukip MEPs will use the wherewithal provided by the EU Parliament to campaign for Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union.
In their editorial on Monday, even The Times had to admit that it was “probable” that I have done nothing illegal – I have always said that I will use all legal means to get us out of the EU, and I make absolutely no apologies for using EU money to do it.
We don’t like the Westminster bubble keeping our lawmakers, newspaper editors and commentators living in a different world to the rest of the country. If they are worried about Ukip’s increasing popularity, they need only look in a mirror to see who to blame.
And if they want to continue to kick the underdog they might be surprised by the results."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-im-taking-on-the-status-quo-and-the-establishments-fighting-back-9262535.html
A round sum expenses allowance is an allowance which is paid to an employee irrespective of whether he or she spends it or not in a particular way. It is to be contrasted with a reimbursement of expenditure actually incurred by an employee and with a scale rate payment intended to reimburse such expenditure
HMRC
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I don't think I'd disagree with any of that. On the other hand, there's not much point addressing the WLQ at the moment when the whole status of Scotland within the UK is up for debate.Mick_Pork said:david_herdson said:I'll say it again: only about one person in a thousand buys their paper. In political terms, that makes them about as popular as the Natural Law Party.
Or Maria Miller. Bit rich to try and shoot the messenger today given how the PB tories have been pointing at the kippers over the Times amusing 'scoop'.
You don't seriously expect Labour to commit the lions share of the resources and actual activists to the campaign on the ground just to please the tories and Cammie do you? They're obviously doing it out of self-interest and we all know they are. You don't need to like their reasons but don't pretend the tories didn't do the precise same thing for the AV vote. That was self-interest too.david_herdson said:And going back to the piece you linked to, it was a classic example. It wasn't about keeping the Union together for any better reason than trying to improve the Left's chances of winning elections.
Which neatly encapsulates Cammie and the coalitions policy on it. Sorry, but you don't get to whine about Labour's obvious reluctance to tackle the WLQ when the McKay commission reported long ago and despite a coalition pledge to tackle it from Clegg and Cammie they've gone VERY quiet on it while hoping the tory backbenchers haven't noticed. If Cammie doesn't want to legislate on it fine, but you can be certain labour will do nothing about it if he doesn't.david_herdson said:Never mind the West Lothian Question
There are only four theoretical options of equality: (1) a centralised union, as was the case pre-1999 with all MPs voting equally on all parts of the UK. No longer viable due to the attachment to devolution. (2) Federalism - England or regions thereof would need devolution on the same or a similar scale to the rest of the UK. Possible though no great call for it. (3) Different voting rights at Westminster depending on whether it's operating as a UK or English parliament. Possible but messy. (4) Independence for Scotland.
As that fourth option is very definitely on the table, there's not much point considering any of the others until it's decided one way or the other. That said, you're quite right: Labour'll do nothing about it given the opportunity.0 -
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
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I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
It's apostrophes at dawn.
I nominate Pork as my second.0 -
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Do you mean a degree in English or a degree from an English university or perhaps both ?nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
Signed :
Ed of Grama and Spelyng Auchentennach Akadamne
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Is that before or after they have flounced out after learning that the panel on The Ukraine is full of men...Chris Bryant and others must protest about Putin not employing all women tank crews.fitalass said:Twitter
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak 2h
Labour source tells me party's econ policy so far is made up of 'bits + bobs' that aren't going to convince'Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: on #newsnight - is Labour having its own cost of living crisis? we talk to @ShabanaMahmood, more from @ggatehouse in Ukraine
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Come on, chaps. Let's not indulge in floccinaucinihilipilification regarding one another.0
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AveryLP said:
I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
It's apostrophes at dawn.
I nominate Pork as my second.
While you are at it see if you can give Avery a few lessons in brevity too.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
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Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead down to three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%
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As you clearly already know the WLQ does not just apply to scotland which was something McKay obviously took into account. Have a look at his report, it's well short of EV4EL but there's no question it was done in the full knowledge that even if scotland votes Yes there is still a problem that has to be solved. Cammie and Clegg welcomed the report, thanked him for it and then nothing. McKay is a template to base legislation on or adjust to changing circumstance like the referendum vote. My point isn't that the coalition haven't solved the WLQ but that Cammie and Clegg don't even seem particularly interested in it. Time is running out for legislation so if they really did want to tackle it they would have started a two track process when McKay reported for legislation in the event of a Yes and in the event of a No. No such work is being done AFAIK so the coalition seems happy to let it go till after the next GE. Fair enough, that's their choice. I happen to think Cameron might want to tackle it but the truth is Clegg doesn't want to touch it with a bargepole so in the interests of coalition 'harmony' it's been deemed just too much hard work and a bit too tricky.david_herdson said:On the other hand, there's not much point addressing the WLQ at the moment when the whole status of Scotland within the UK is up for debate.
There are only four theoretical options of equality: (1) a centralised union, as was the case pre-1999 with all MPs voting equally on all parts of the UK. No longer viable due to the attachment to devolution. (2) Federalism - England or regions thereof would need devolution on the same or a similar scale to the rest of the UK. Possible though no great call for it. (3) Different voting rights at Westminster depending on whether it's operating as a UK or English parliament. Possible but messy. (4) Independence for Scotland.
As that fourth option is very definitely on the table, there's not much point considering any of the others until it's decided one way or the other. That said, you're quite right: Labour'll do nothing about it given the opportunity.
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Me, Basil, the goalposts.......wandering on with no end in sight.Tykejohnno said:
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead down to three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%0 -
Why do you think it amusing to poke fun at Kippers, implying we are dim? Do you think we are uneducated because we are not Tories?AveryLP said:
I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
It's apostrophes at dawn.
I nominate Pork as my second.
I enjoy a mickey take as much as the next person, probably more so, but if there are people of any political persuasion that cannot spell or use grammar correctly it's not very clever to make fun of them.
To say nothing about the difficulties of using an iPad together with Vanilla.0 -
Hmmmm Mr P is porky as wise choice ? He has no latin.AveryLP said:
I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
It's apostrophes at dawn.
I nominate Pork as my second.0 -
@:Mick_Pork
'I don't need to imagine the incompetent fop said it because he did.'
Automatic EU membership after independence --Everyone now knows was a lie.
Currency Union---Not going to get past rUK voters let alone Westminster.
No Currency Union,no sharing of debt----Guarantees massive queue of lenders. .
No loss of Jobs---a rush of companies registering in England.
Scotland will continue to discriminate against English students via fees---worry about getting back into the EU first,then get a surprise.
SNP guarantees rUK naval ships will be built in Scotland---the longer the campaign the crazier the promises.
The Conman makes Double Glazing Salesmen look good.0 -
Down to 3 points you say?Tykejohnno said:
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead down to three points: CON 34%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 13%
Merely a flesh wound.
0 -
I agree also to your challenge.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
What shall we sing?
A duet, right?0 -
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Sorry, had a sense of humour bypass this evening!Morris_Dancer said:Come on, chaps. Let's not indulge in floccinaucinihilipilification regarding one another.
0 -
Twitter Bitch Fight of the Week: Andrew Pierce v Owen Jones
http://order-order.com/2014/04/15/twitter-bitch-fight-of-the-week-andrew-pierce-v-owen-jones/
0 -
Another Times Ukip front pager coming up.0
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Re: PT
There are some things that just do not add up.
Why should a well-resourced paper like The Times make a simple mistake about MEP's expenses/allowances - it would be the first thing that would be checked on. Unless it is a mask for a greater revelation.
What would the attitude/voting inclination now of the 2010 LibDems, if Clegg had turned down the offer of a coalition and left the Cons to run a minority government - would they have forgiven him even more for turning down being in government after so many years in the wilderness? Would that have been more forgiveable that being part of the Coalition? Or would they have acted like a dog in a manger anyway.
Clegg had the problem that Cameron might have called another election within 6 months and before Labour were reorganised and achieved his majority partly at the expense of the LibDems and so condemn them to the wilderness again.
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Nigelnigel4england said:
Something else the Times either wilfully ignored or are too thick to understand:isam said:"It is not for me to defend this system: after all, I want it abolished. Ever since 1999, I have expressly stated that Ukip MEPs will use the wherewithal provided by the EU Parliament to campaign for Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union.
In their editorial on Monday, even The Times had to admit that it was “probable” that I have done nothing illegal – I have always said that I will use all legal means to get us out of the EU, and I make absolutely no apologies for using EU money to do it.
We don’t like the Westminster bubble keeping our lawmakers, newspaper editors and commentators living in a different world to the rest of the country. If they are worried about Ukip’s increasing popularity, they need only look in a mirror to see who to blame.
And if they want to continue to kick the underdog they might be surprised by the results."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-im-taking-on-the-status-quo-and-the-establishments-fighting-back-9262535.html
A round sum expenses allowance is an allowance which is paid to an employee irrespective of whether he or she spends it or not in a particular way. It is to be contrasted with a reimbursement of expenditure actually incurred by an employee and with a scale rate payment intended to reimburse such expenditure
HMRC
HMRC make the distinction in order to determine what might be taxable income (an allowance) and what is otherwise a reimbursement of an expense wholly and necessarily occurred for business purposes.
HMRC's ruling applies only to tax treatment.
We cannot conclude from the ruling that payment of an allowance confers the rights on an employee to spend funds in any way they wish. How an employee spends the allowance will be subject to either an express or implied contract with the provider. In the case of EP allowances there are published guidelines on what monies provided as allowances can legitimately be spent.
EP allowances are funds provided by EU taxpayers. It is therefore reasonable to require that proper account is kept of how such monies are spent even if such accounts are not required by EU authorities to be audited pr submitted for approval. It is also reasonable to assume that monies are only spent as necessary and for proper purpose.
All Farage needs to do to satisfy the inquiring public and media on the allowance provided for his UK office is to state a true and fair record of what he has spent.
Is that too much to ask?
All other nonsense about conspiracies of journalists against UKIP; vendettas fought by dismissed and discredited employees; and the political crusade of Nigel against the EU infidel are entirely irrelevant to the matter in hand.
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-- Message to anyo0ne on a Yougov Panel --
Can you say you'll vote Conservative, even if you have no intention whatsoever to do so. Some of us have a bet to win with Paddy on it.
---------
Thanks !0 -
PulpstarPulpstar said:-- Message to anyo0ne on a Yougov Panel --
Can you say you'll vote Conservative, even if you have no intention whatsoever to do so. Some of us have a bet to win with Paddy on it.
---------
Thanks !
Are you advocating that 'arrogant' Tories replace 'shy' Tories?
If so, is this an ethical request?
0 -
I'm requesting that people just stick down Conservative till we get that level/Con ahead pollAveryLP said:
PulpstarPulpstar said:-- Message to anyo0ne on a Yougov Panel --
Can you say you'll vote Conservative, even if you have no intention whatsoever to do so. Some of us have a bet to win with Paddy on it.
---------
Thanks !
Are you advocating that 'arrogant' Tories replace 'shy' Tories?
If so, is this an ethical request?
. 0 -
We don’t like the Westminster bubble keeping our lawmakers, newspaper editors and commentators living in a different world to the rest of the country. If they are worried about Ukip’s increasing popularity, they need only look in a mirror to see who to blame.
And if they want to continue to kick the underdog they might be surprised by the results."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-im-taking-on-the-status-quo-and-the-establishments-fighting-back-9262535.html
Something else the Times either wilfully ignored or are too thick to understand:
A round sum expenses allowance is an allowance which is paid to an employee irrespective of whether he or she spends it or not in a particular way. It is to be contrasted with a reimbursement of expenditure actually incurred by an employee and with a scale rate payment intended to reimburse such expenditure
HMRC
Nigel
HMRC make the distinction in order to determine what might be taxable income (an allowance) and what is otherwise a reimbursement of an expense wholly and necessarily occurred for business purposes.
HMRC's ruling applies only to tax treatment.
We cannot conclude from the ruling that payment of an allowance confers the rights on an employee to spend funds in any way they wish. How an employee spends the allowance will be subject to either an express or implied contract with the provider. In the case of EP allowances there are published guidelines on what monies provided as allowances can legitimately be spent.
EP allowances are funds provided by EU taxpayers. It is therefore reasonable to require that proper account is kept of how such monies are spent even if such accounts are not required by EU authorities to be audited pr submitted for approval. It is also reasonable to assume that monies are only spent as necessary and for proper purpose.
All Farage needs to do to satisfy the inquiring public and media on the allowance provided for his UK office is to state a true and fair record of what he has spent.
Is that too much to ask?
All other nonsense about conspiracies of journalists against UKIP; vendettas fought by dismissed and discredited employees; and the political crusade of Nigel against the EU infidel are entirely irrelevant to the matter in hand.
Perhaps the full details will be declared in the EU's audited accounts. Oh wait a minute.....0 -
27th March.
Rupert Murdoch Verified account
@rupertmurdoch
UKIP,Farage still making progress. Without a deal Cameron will be dead meat after 2015 elections. Prepare for Radical Labour.
This has clearly been seen by The Sun, The Times, and Sky as a call to arms to get Ukip from the boss.Expect more in the Sunday Times.
The other arms of the Tory press,Dacre and the Barclay Bros,don't quite seem to be on Rupert's page.There must be a fair section of their readership who would retract on such criticism of Ukip and sales might suffer.0 -
Rees Mogg is so boring; floccinaucinihilipilification is too short. He should have broken into Turkish and used muvaffakiyetsizleştiricileştiriveremeyebileceklerimizdenmişsinizcesineMorris_Dancer said:Come on, chaps. Let's not indulge in floccinaucinihilipilification regarding one another.
As in "Our teacher training program has many who consider themselves, if I may break into Turkish, muvaffakiyetsizleştiricileştiriveremeyebileceklerimizdenmişsinizcesine"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_word_in_Turkish
Just don't ask me to pronounce it...0 -
The 'technically within the rules' defence worked very well in the expenses scandal...
I score it one round each, sharp opening by the Times with a solid jab of a headline. Farage landed a couple of counter hooks to the body to take round 2.
Looking forward to round 3.0 -
@thetimes: Tomorrow's front page: Ukip blocked questions over party's EU funding http://t.co/4w0JRCqqO40
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wow they really do seem to want to go after the kippers.Scott_P said:@thetimes: Tomorrow's front page: Ukip blocked questions over party's EU funding http://t.co/4w0JRCqqO4
Slightly distasteful even for privately-educated Times readers and likely - just - to play into the kippers' hands (note apostrophe placement).
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Step three of the Gandhi cycle.TOPPING said:
wow they really do seem to want to go after the kippers.Scott_P said:@thetimes: Tomorrow's front page: Ukip blocked questions over party's EU funding http://t.co/4w0JRCqqO4
Slightly distasteful even for privately-educated Times readers and likely - just - to play into the kippers' hands (note apostrophe placement).0 -
But you assured me he could be trained, Mr. Brooke!Alanbrooke said:
Hmmmm Mr P is porky as wise choice ? He has no latin.AveryLP said:
I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
It's apostrophes at dawn.
I nominate Pork as my second.
Did I misconstrue the studded leather collar?
0 -
Apparently the Times' main 'whistle blower' is under investigation themselves for fraud. They're making themselves a laughing stock over this attack job.0
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Memo to The Times:
You don't like UKIP. We get the message.0 -
Nigelnigel4england said:
Why do you think it amusing to poke fun at Kippers, implying we are dim? Do you think we are uneducated because we are not Tories?AveryLP said:
I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
...
...
I enjoy a mickey take as much as the next person, probably more so, but if there are people of any political persuasion that cannot spell or use grammar correctly it's not very clever to make fun of them.
To say nothing about the difficulties of using an iPad together with Vanilla.
You overlook the fact that the apostrophe line of attack arose out of an internal dispute between Nigel Farage and UKIP's founder Professor Alan Sked:
It says something about a political party when its founder compares himself to a monster-creating character in a Mary Shelley novel. “I sometimes think of myself as Dr Frankenstein,” says Alan Sked, professor of International History at the London School of Economics. “So far I think ‘it’ can be contained. I attack ‘it’ in the press all the time.”
The “it” Sked refers to is the party he founded some two decades ago, the UK Independence party (Ukip), which campaigns to get the United Kingdom out of the European Union. Originally started by Sked in 1991 as the Anti-Federalist League, ‘it’ was renamed to Ukip in 1993. “We changed the name to the UK Independence party in this room,” he says. “Well there were less books and we sat around the table. After a while we went to the common room at the end. Ukip started here.”
...
Is Farage a sort of British Ron Paul? “No, I think Ron Paul is more educated,” replies Sked. “Farage never went to university. When he was candidate in the very beginning in the 1990s he used to stick things through letter boxes with stuff he kind of wrote himself. And I used to get these letters from party headquarters: ‘I am very glad your candidate in Salisbury believes in education but until he learns how to spell it I am not voting for him.’ Two or three letters insinuated that Farage’s command of English was not very good. I took him to my office and tried to explain to him English grammar and spelling. For about two hours I tried to tell him the difference between ‘it’s’, with an apostrophe, and ‘its’, without an apostrophe.”
0 -
Welcome to PB thatguy.
You are clearly not a Kipper.
Surely that should be: "Your clearly not a Kipper."
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?
...
I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.
...
Why do you think it amusing to poke fun at Kippers, implying we are dim? Do you think we are uneducated because we are not Tories?
I enjoy a mickey take as much as the next person, probably more so, but if there are people of any political persuasion that cannot spell or use grammar correctly it's not very clever to make fun of them.
To say nothing about the difficulties of using an iPad together with Vanilla.
Nigel
You overlook the fact that the apostrophe line of attack arose out of an internal dispute between Nigel Farage and UKIP's founder Professor Alan Sked:
It says something about a political party when its founder compares himself to a monster-creating character in a Mary Shelley novel. “I sometimes think of myself as Dr Frankenstein,” says Alan Sked, professor of International History at the London School of Economics. “So far I think ‘it’ can be contained. I attack ‘it’ in the press all the time.”
The “it” Sked refers to is the party he founded some two decades ago, the UK Independence party (Ukip), which campaigns to get the United Kingdom out of the European Union. Originally started by Sked in 1991 as the Anti-Federalist League, ‘it’ was renamed to Ukip in 1993. “We changed the name to the UK Independence party in this room,” he says. “Well there were less books and we sat around the table. After a while we went to the common room at the end. Ukip started here.”
...
Is Farage a sort of British Ron Paul? “No, I think Ron Paul is more educated,” replies Sked. “Farage never went to university. When he was candidate in the very beginning in the 1990s he used to stick things through letter boxes with stuff he kind of wrote himself. And I used to get these letters from party headquarters: ‘I am very glad your candidate in Salisbury believes in education but until he learns how to spell it I am not voting for him.’ Two or three letters insinuated that Farage’s command of English was not very good. I took him to my office and tried to explain to him English grammar and spelling. For about two hours I tried to tell him the difference between ‘it’s’, with an apostrophe, and ‘its’, without an apostrophe.”
Apologies, I did not know that.
As I said I had a sense of humour bypass this evening.0 -
Whenever there's a by-election with a very low over/under on votes for an independent etc I always wonder about a group getting together betting the over and then essentially voting themselves money.Pulpstar said:
I'm requesting that people just stick down Conservative till we get that level/Con ahead pollAveryLP said:
PulpstarPulpstar said:-- Message to anyo0ne on a Yougov Panel --
Can you say you'll vote Conservative, even if you have no intention whatsoever to do so. Some of us have a bet to win with Paddy on it.
---------
Thanks !
Are you advocating that 'arrogant' Tories replace 'shy' Tories?
If so, is this an ethical request?.
I'm not sure if it'd be legal or not?0 -
Farage told official to "Shut up".Scott_P said:@thetimes: Tomorrow's front page: Ukip blocked questions over party's EU funding http://t.co/4w0JRCqqO4
Absolutely shocking. What is the world coming to?
0 -
UN makes a complete fool of itself again by claiming UK is most sexist country in the world.
What about Saudi Arabia? Mexico? Sudan?0 -
Sky news press preview highlight the Times front page...
... And the panel say its a positive for Farage & Ukip
Haha brilliant
Keep it coming0 -
A wee bit of negative media attention from the Times, and Farage and his supporters go into some kind of hysterical/outraged meltdown. Farage needs to get some advice from Cameron, Miliband and Clegg on how to cope with this kind of day to day scrutiny fast, or he needs to get out of the kitchen.0
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Is it me or have the rightwing press completely lost their mojo? As if the laughable attacks on Harman and Miliband's dad weren't enough, we now have this pathetic salvo against Farage from a paper that should know better.0
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Is that a troll or a joke?fitalass said:A wee bit of negative media attention from the Times, and Farage and his supporters go into some kind of hysterical/outraged meltdown. Farage needs to get some advice from Cameron, Miliband and Clegg on how to cope with this kind of day to day scrutiny fast, or he needs to get out of the kitchen.
0 -
You might as well put in request for kippers to change their vote to save the blushes of poor Avery. He predicted they were on the wane months ago. How did that turn out?Pulpstar said:-- Message to anyo0ne on a Yougov Panel --
Can you say you'll vote Conservative, even if you have no intention whatsoever to do so. Some of us have a bet to win with Paddy on it.
---------
Thanks !
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png
Oh dear.
I fear he is returning to his slightly manic 'stuart truth' style persona which gave us so much hilarity when he was incompetently spinning for Romney. Not quite up to his 'Lansley will be PM' levels of comedy spinning yet, but he's certainly getting there.0 -
The idea that the UK is the most sexist country in the world is going to have a few more people reaching for UKIP membership forms I would have thought.0
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@nigel4england
Apologies, I did not know that.
As I said I had a sense of humour bypass this evening.
No need to apologise, Nigel.
We'll cheer you up tomorrow morning by having a champagne breakfast with 'pouter to celebrate the crossover of wages growth and inflation.
0 -
It was more reference to well hard calvinists.AveryLP said:
But you assured me he could be trained, Mr. Brooke!Alanbrooke said:
Hmmmm Mr P is porky as wise choice ? He has no latin.AveryLP said:
I accept your challenge to a duel, Nigel.nigel4england said:
So Avery and Topping think it amusing to make fun of Kippers, that's discriminatory is it not?TOPPING said:
I have an English degree and would quite happily challenge either of you arrogant fools to a spelling or grammar contest.
It's apostrophes at dawn.
I nominate Pork as my second.
Did I misconstrue the studded leather collar?0 -
Mr Hannan mentioned in his article today that it is impossible to return an unspent portion of an MEP's allowance to the EU.AveryLP said:
It is also reasonable to assume that monies are only spent as necessary and for proper purpose.nigel4england said:
Something else the Times either wilfully ignored or are too thick to understand:isam said:"It is not for me to defend this system: after all, I want it abolished. Ever since 1999, I have expressly stated that Ukip MEPs will use the wherewithal provided by the EU Parliament to campaign for Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union.
In their editorial on Monday, even The Times had to admit that it was “probable” that I have done nothing illegal – I have always said that I will use all legal means to get us out of the EU, and I make absolutely no apologies for using EU money to do it.
We don’t like the Westminster bubble keeping our lawmakers, newspaper editors and commentators living in a different world to the rest of the country. If they are worried about Ukip’s increasing popularity, they need only look in a mirror to see who to blame.
And if they want to continue to kick the underdog they might be surprised by the results."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-im-taking-on-the-status-quo-and-the-establishments-fighting-back-9262535.html
A round sum expenses allowance is an allowance which is paid to an employee irrespective of whether he or she spends it or not in a particular way. It is to be contrasted with a reimbursement of expenditure actually incurred by an employee and with a scale rate payment intended to reimburse such expenditure
HMRC
"When one of my British colleagues found himself with a slight surplus, and asked how to return it, he was told it couldn't be done. "
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100267778/if-nigel-farages-expenses-bother-you-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
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This is fun, watching Labour supporters scuttle out to defend Farage.0
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Beg pardon?BobaFett said:from a paper that should know better.
The Sunday Times jails its source
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2013/03/the-sunday-times-jails-its-source/
STimes maybe but it's very much the outrider for it's Daily and where the more serious investigations start and generally end up. As Mr Herdson felt so free to lay into the Indy (with some justification as on a general level they have made some pretty big blunders) then it's only fair to point out that they are far from alone. None of the broadsheets have weathered these far more cut-throat years with any aplomb and some have been sailing very close to the wind indeed.
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So he should just ignore what is a blatant lie?fitalass said:A wee bit of negative media attention from the Times, and Farage and his supporters go into some kind of hysterical/outraged meltdown. Farage needs to get some advice from Cameron, Miliband and Clegg on how to cope with this kind of day to day scrutiny fast, or he needs to get out of the kitchen.
The same people who want to gag the media now want to use it to smear an opponent with ridiculous lies, says it all about the establishment that Farage is fighting against.0 -
I heard him call the official a pleb *innocent face*MonikerDiCanio said:
Farage told official to "Shut up".Scott_P said:@thetimes: Tomorrow's front page: Ukip blocked questions over party's EU funding http://t.co/4w0JRCqqO4
Absolutely shocking. What is the world coming to?0 -
Between 1997 and 2001 Labour lost almost three million voters, (although it barely dented their overall majority, which dropped from 179 to 167). Most of those people haven't bothered to vote since 1997.
Maybe a fair number of those three million voters are now supporting UKIP. It would be interesting if the polling companies could do some research on these voters.-1
This discussion has been closed.