Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Anyone on PB making snide remarks or trying to make political capital out of this tragic incident in London should hang his/her head in shame!
I think it is fair to make some clear headed assessment of how it might impact the political landscape though. My immediate assessment is that when the terror incidents happened in 2017, May was grievously exposed to the charge of 20,000 police officers having been taken off the beat on her watch. Her having been Home Secretary compounded the sense of grievance. It did her immense harm. I don't see this incident having the same political impact.
It might do the other way if Corbyn criticises the decision of the police officer to shoot.
Anyone on PB making snide remarks or trying to make political capital out of this tragic incident in London should hang his/her head in shame!
I disagree, that's just an excuse to shut down legitimate debate that people find uncomfortable. It is entirely reasonable to discuss the causes and responses to terrorism in the aftermath of an incident.
On that matter, we all know that Corbyn has a record of saying some very stupid stuff about fighting terrorism, he did so only a few weeks ago when al-Baghdadi was killed. I hope Corbyn gets asked what the police should have done today.
He was in 2017 too. And while it's right debate needs not be shut down in the aftermath purely because its uncomfortable it's pretty easy to tell if someone is trying to debate on a tough topic or be a partisan booster, and react accordingly.
On topic: Anything that reduces Johnson's majority if fine by me
Surely the last thing you want is him on a small majority and beholden to the ERG
He is already beholden to the ERG. Boris Johnson does not really believe in Brexit, but he sold his soul for the title of PM. He will forever be in the pocket of the extreme right of the Tory Party ( I cannot call them Conservative), and will not be able to escape it.
Hes beholden now because he has no majority. It is possible he would not be beholden afterwards, it depends if new mps are ERG types or loyalists. The latter mean he would not be committed. Hes rented his soul not sold it.
It would be karma indeed if the election supplied enough ERG types to mess up Boris's plans. The truth of the matter is that we are very likely to No Deal anyway, so there is little harm in the ERG gathering recruits
Anyone on PB making snide remarks or trying to make political capital out of this tragic incident in London should hang his/her head in shame!
I think it is fair to make some clear headed assessment of how it might impact the political landscape though. My immediate assessment is that when the terror incidents happened in 2017, May was grievously exposed to the charge of 20,000 police officers having been taken off the beat on her watch. Her having been Home Secretary compounded the sense of grievance. It did her immense harm. I don't see this incident having the same political impact.
It might do the other way if Corbyn criticises the decision of the police officer to shoot.
He won't be allowed to be asked. On one level, the timing is fortunate for Corbyn - AN would have had previous quotes to fire at him if it was next week.
He was in 2017 too. And while it's right debate needs not be shut down in the aftermath purely because its uncomfortable it's pretty easy to tell if someone is trying to debate on a tough topic or be a partisan booster, and react accordingly.
Of course there's a difference between debate and simple mud-slinging. In two weeks time Corbyn might be PM and have to make life or death decisions about combating terrorism, his long record of naivety (at best) about the subject is surely an apt topic now. It would make no more sense for us to avoid the topic now, than it would for Americans to heed the demands to "shut up about gun control" every time there is a mass shooting in the US.
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
He was in 2017 too. And while it's right debate needs not be shut down in the aftermath purely because its uncomfortable it's pretty easy to tell if someone is trying to debate on a tough topic or be a partisan booster, and react accordingly.
Of course there's a difference between debate and simple mud-slinging. In two weeks time Corbyn might be PM and have to make life or death decisions about combating terrorism, his long record of naivety (at best) about the subject is surely an apt topic now. It would make no more sense for us to avoid the topic now, than it would for Americans to heed the demands to "shut up about gun control" every time there is a mass shooting in the US.
Well said. Labour also plans to install Diane Abbott as Home Secretary in 2 weeks. If their positive antipathy towards our national security isn't a proper subject for politics, then nothing is.
Anyone on PB making snide remarks or trying to make political capital out of this tragic incident in London should hang his/her head in shame!
I think it is fair to make some clear headed assessment of how it might impact the political landscape though. My immediate assessment is that when the terror incidents happened in 2017, May was grievously exposed to the charge of 20,000 police officers having been taken off the beat on her watch. Her having been Home Secretary compounded the sense of grievance. It did her immense harm. I don't see this incident having the same political impact.
It might do the other way if Corbyn criticises the decision of the police officer to shoot.
He won't be allowed to be asked. On one level, the timing is fortunate for Corbyn - AN would have had previous quotes to fire at him if it was next week.
It probably wouldn’t move any votes even if he did, come to think of it.
Those who are voting Labour are disassociating it from Corbyn.
No you are not alone. I will turn on SKY News at 9pm and lie in bed and watch the programme through until breakfast time surrounded by my dogs who will hopefully be sleeping and my printed spreadsheets to mark off seats as they are called and whether they are among those I have predicted to change hands.
I haven't decided whether to log on here or not on election night. Wasn't a member last time so did not have that decision to make. I think I probably won't (come on here) because I like to immerse myself in it - it's bigger than a World Cup final or even the birth of a child for me - and I am poor at multi-tasking. In fact that's a general point. If people can see I'm posting stuff on here it means I have got absolutely nothing else going on at the time. The converse also applies. If I am NOT posting on here it can be assumed that I am occupied with other matters of great import. Anyway, that's me.
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Anyone on PB making snide remarks or trying to make political capital out of this tragic incident in London should hang his/her head in shame!
I think it is fair to make some clear headed assessment of how it might impact the political landscape though. My immediate assessment is that when the terror incidents happened in 2017, May was grievously exposed to the charge of 20,000 police officers having been taken off the beat on her watch. Her having been Home Secretary compounded the sense of grievance. It did her immense harm. I don't see this incident having the same political impact.
It might do the other way if Corbyn criticises the decision of the police officer to shoot.
He won't be allowed to be asked. On one level, the timing is fortunate for Corbyn - AN would have had previous quotes to fire at him if it was next week.
It probably wouldn’t move any votes even if he did, come to think of it. Those who are voting Labour are disassociating it from Corbyn.
I've criticised Labour's manifesto on the basis that Corbyn has no credibility as a leader who could implement any of it (assuming you thought doing so would be a good idea). The flip side of that is that it's hard to contemplate him doing anything malevolent because he isn't competent enough to do so. It rather dispels much of a sense of peril.
A technical question for RCS or other "techie PBers. Is there some way of setting the PB page on election night so that postings almost look like a videprinter? Last time because I had shit broadband every time I refreshed a page I found there had been about 100 postings missed and gave up. I will be watching SKY News election programme once more because the BBC graphics in the last few elections have been dreadful and although I couldnt stand him as Speaker, I suspect little Bercow's acidic wit will make him a perfect locutor on election night.
I avoid PB on GE night myself (no offence to anyone) as I like to watch the TV coverage play out almost like a movie and I don't like seeing results posted early on other sources because to me that's like reading a spoiler. Yes... I know I'm weird.
No you are not alone. I will turn on SKY News at 9pm and lie in bed and watch the programme through until breakfast time surrounded by my dogs who will hopefully be sleeping and my printed spreadsheets to mark off seats as they are called and whether they are among those I have predicted to change hands.
I had two TVs in 2017 (bit sad), but with Bercow on Sky for 2019, one will suffice.
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.
Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.
It used to be that having a constituency on the A1 was the prerequisite for GE success. Thatcher Finchley, Major Huntingdon, Blair Sedgefield
It didn't help Hague in Richmond in 2001 at all, but he was trumped by near neighbour Blair's equally strong A1 credentials.. 250/1 shot Rishi Sunak will reap all the benefits of the Great North Road as new PM in 2029. Sadly for backers of Laura Piddy Pidcock, her constituency misses the A1 by about 5 miles. So while she may well be labour leader soon, she will never be PM.
It's occurred to me that Ed Milliband's Doncaster North constituency straddles the A1. Clearly Mike's A1 theory is bollocks.
Clear proof of Tory gerrymandering.
I think it was built by the Romans. The potholes were filled in by the tories.
The former is reasonable but, as all of Surrey knows, Conservatives do not repair potholes.
really... I have to drive in Sussex and Surrey, Surrey roads are infinitely better maintained, I can assure you.
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
No you are not alone. I will turn on SKY News at 9pm and lie in bed and watch the programme through until breakfast time surrounded by my dogs who will hopefully be sleeping and my printed spreadsheets to mark off seats as they are called and whether they are among those I have predicted to change hands.
I haven't decided whether to log on here or not on election night. Wasn't a member last time so did not have that decision to make. I think I probably won't (come on here) because I like to immerse myself in it - it's bigger than a World Cup final or even the birth of a child for me - and I am poor at multi-tasking. In fact that's a general point. If people can see I'm posting stuff on here it means I have got absolutely nothing else going on at the time. The converse also applies. If I am NOT posting on here it can be assumed that I am occupied with other matters of great import. Anyway, that's me.
Pb.com commenters give more informed, more illuminating and more entertaining coverage of elevtions than any broadcast media. Though you might want to look in on the telly should there be a chance of seeing a character you dislike looking sad for any reason. That said, I will only be here if it's looking safe from Corbyn being PM.
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Heaven forbid - then straight into point scoring
Classic and classless.
Praise indeed from the master.
I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.
Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.
It used to be that having a constituency on the A1 was the prerequisite for GE success. Thatcher Finchley, Major Huntingdon, Blair Sedgefield
It didn't help Hague in Richmond in 2001 at all, but he was trumped by near neighbour Blair's equally strong A1 credentials.. 250/1 shot Rishi Sunak will reap all the benefits of the Great North Road as new PM in 2029. Sadly for backers of Laura Piddy Pidcock, her constituency misses the A1 by about 5 miles. So while she may well be labour leader soon, she will never be PM.
It's occurred to me that Ed Milliband's Doncaster North constituency straddles the A1. Clearly Mike's A1 theory is bollocks.
Clear proof of Tory gerrymandering.
I think it was built by the Romans. The potholes were filled in by the tories.
The former is reasonable but, as all of Surrey knows, Conservatives do not repair potholes.
really... I have to drive in Sussex and Surrey, Surrey roads are infinitely better maintained, I can assure you.
Surrey has the highest claims cost for pothole damage of any authority in the country. Try driving down the Epsom Road into Guildford. My father even read an article in Birmingham crowning the Epsom Road as the most dug up in the country (I think it was something like 350 times in 5 years - and as we all know many potholes are previous repairs/holes failing.
Just got (yet another!) LD leaflet, Hampstead & Kilburn, which they are attempting to take from Labour, and this time I read it. It has the following sentence in highlights - "The Labour Leadership backs Brexit" Is that OK to say? I thought there were laws around official election comms?
No you are not alone. I will turn on SKY News at 9pm and lie in bed and watch the programme through until breakfast time surrounded by my dogs who will hopefully be sleeping and my printed spreadsheets to mark off seats as they are called and whether they are among those I have predicted to change hands.
I haven't decided whether to log on here or not on election night. Wasn't a member last time so did not have that decision to make. I think I probably won't (come on here) because I like to immerse myself in it - it's bigger than a World Cup final or even the birth of a child for me - and I am poor at multi-tasking. In fact that's a general point. If people can see I'm posting stuff on here it means I have got absolutely nothing else going on at the time. The converse also applies. If I am NOT posting on here it can be assumed that I am occupied with other matters of great import. Anyway, that's me.
This place was sensational on referendum night. The moment Newcastle came in 51-49 Remain, then Sunderland 60+ Leave, and the spreadsheet-builders on here announced Leave would win, about 5 hours before it was official. PB tends to get the whiff of things first. I'd have it on in the background, if I were you.
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
He has had many opportunities - he has just failed to take them.
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Heaven forbid - then straight into point scoring
Classic and classless.
Praise indeed from the master.
I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
'I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but' Words to live by on PB.
Figure's below from today's panelbase. That sort of gap suggests a 9% vote lead. For hung parliament territory, Corbyn needs to get within ~12 points on the leadership net figures.
Interesting to see how fast things have flipped. With last week's Opinum, the headline party lead was 19%, but the leadership ratings were suggesting much, much lower (about 8% iirc).
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Heaven forbid - then straight into point scoring
Classic and classless.
Praise indeed from the master.
I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
'I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but' Words to live by on PB.
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
I think what’s likely to happen is some of the opposition attacks against his character will be toned down for a few days and it could give him a short term boost .
I think for Corbyn the fact he’s already done the AN interview will be some relief to his team . AN was bound to bring up certain things in light of today’s terror incident and the next leaders debate is not till the 6th December .
The campaign must continue though , Johnson was asked about that but we can’t have terrorist incidents allowed to stop that .
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
Figure's below from today's panelbase. That sort of gap suggests a 9% vote lead. For hung parliament territory, Corbyn needs to get within ~12 points on the leadership net figures.
Interesting to see how fast things have flipped. With last week's Opinum, the headline party lead was 19%, but the leadership ratings were suggesting much, much lower (about 8% iirc).
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
This is true. He could blow it with something crass like "he died like a dog" but I would back him to resist that. And, as you say, the gravitas bar is low for him. If he can simply play it sombre and straight, just try for once to not look like a kind of comic imposter in the role, you know, like it's all a bit "Carry On PM", then this would be a win.
Mr. NorthWales, I'm not persuaded by that line. Actual pro-Corbyn types and Labour tribalists are going to vote for him anyway. Others will convince themselves the Conservatives are bound to win, so it's 'safe' voting for Corbyn. This happened last time. I expect it to happen again.
Anyone on PB making snide remarks or trying to make political capital out of this tragic incident in London should hang his/her head in shame!
I think it is fair to make some clear headed assessment of how it might impact the political landscape though. My immediate assessment is that when the terror incidents happened in 2017, May was grievously exposed to the charge of 20,000 police officers having been taken off the beat on her watch. Her having been Home Secretary compounded the sense of grievance. It did her immense harm. I don't see this incident having the same political impact.
I agree with you Marky about the bad impact on vote share in 2017 because instantly police numbers came up. It wasn’t even opposition parties stirring it, it was police? Also in days following all normal Tory papers bashing government and authorities for the security failures missed opportunities. And corbyn chose to link terrorism here with failed foreign policy abroad, Libya fiasco fresh in mind then (that also partly did for Clinton). Also it raises possibility for media clangers by any politician, something said out of place, upsurge in Islamophobic posts by Tory members etc. The political question of wether it’s best to own and process your home grown terrorists, or ignore them and hope nothing bad will come from it may also come up? A few weeks ago Trump said, Europe not processing their terrorists held in Syria, let them walk over there and cause some damage did he not?
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
I think what’s likely to happen is some of the opposition attacks against his character will be toned down for a few days and it could give him a short term boost .
I think for Corbyn the fact he’s already done the AN interview will be some relief to his team . AN was bound to bring up certain things in light of today’s terror incident and the next leaders debate is not till the 6th December .
The campaign must continue though , Johnson was asked about that but we can’t have terrorist incidents allowed to stop that .
He said he was not campaigning this evening
Circumstances may curtail it tomorrow but it will begin again but maybe not full on for a few days
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
He's not lying, it's just that his hatred is so strong that it's impacting his reading comprehension
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
I think what’s likely to happen is some of the opposition attacks against his character will be toned down for a few days and it could give him a short term boost .
I think for Corbyn the fact he’s already done the AN interview will be some relief to his team . AN was bound to bring up certain things in light of today’s terror incident and the next leaders debate is not till the 6th December .
The campaign must continue though , Johnson was asked about that but we can’t have terrorist incidents allowed to stop that .
He said he was not campaigning this evening
Circumstances may curtail it tomorrow but it will begin again but maybe not full on for a few days
There’s no reason to stop campaigning after today . That’s giving a win to terrorists .
earlier Battersea and now also Warrington South are clearly going to surprise us on the 12th.... Is OGH offering us odds on his yellows winning either?
Pb.com commenters give more informed, more illuminating and more entertaining coverage of elevtions than any broadcast media. Though you might want to look in on the telly should there be a chance of seeing a character you dislike looking sad for any reason. That said, I will only be here if it's looking safe from Corbyn being PM.
Yes, it would be fun. But I'd get sucked in, that's the trouble, and miss some key moments of Huw Edwards. Why would you avoid here if Labour have a good night? That's a bit "only sing when you're winning", isn't it?
earlier Battersea and now also Warrington South are clearly going to surprise us on the 12th.... Is OGH offering us odds on his yellows winning either?
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
I think what’s likely to happen is some of the opposition attacks against his character will be toned down for a few days and it could give him a short term boost .
I think for Corbyn the fact he’s already done the AN interview will be some relief to his team . AN was bound to bring up certain things in light of today’s terror incident and the next leaders debate is not till the 6th December .
The campaign must continue though , Johnson was asked about that but we can’t have terrorist incidents allowed to stop that .
He said he was not campaigning this evening
Circumstances may curtail it tomorrow but it will begin again but maybe not full on for a few days
There’s no reason to stop campaigning after today . That’s giving a win to terrorists .
This place was sensational on referendum night. The moment Newcastle came in 51-49 Remain, then Sunderland 60+ Leave, and the spreadsheet-builders on here announced Leave would win, about 5 hours before it was official. PB tends to get the whiff of things first. I'd have it on in the background, if I were you.
Ah OK, the betting. Yes, that is a great point. Miss some Huw Edwards but make a packet on the in-running markets. That's a tricky one.
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact. There is however quite a bit of internet activity suggesting Corbyn apologists are implying that this was a false flag operation. True that isn't Corbyn himself, but the allusion is disgusting, and as for Corbyn if the cap fits...
In terms of responding to this situation and the risk to the Conservatives of the response from Boris being seen as inappropriate, I think we are all looking in the wrong direction. Even Boris, in his most crass moments, is unlikely to say anything too appalling. The real risk to the Conservatives is that Donald Trump will not be able to resist butting in, claiming that the UK is unsafe and advising his friend Boris how to manage such situations. That could backfire big time.
earlier Battersea and now also Warrington South are clearly going to surprise us on the 12th.... Is OGH offering us odds on his yellows winning either?
The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.
Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.
It used to be that having a constituency on the A1 was the prerequisite for GE success. Thatcher Finchley, Major Huntingdon, Blair Sedgefield
It didn't help Hague in Richmond in 2001 at all, but he was trumped by near neighbour Blair's equally strong A1 credentials.. 250/1 shot Rishi Sunak will reap all the benefits of the Great North Road as new PM in 2029. Sadly for backers of Laura Piddy Pidcock, her constituency misses the A1 by about 5 miles. So while she may well be labour leader soon, she will never be PM.
It's occurred to me that Ed Milliband's Doncaster North constituency straddles the A1. Clearly Mike's A1 theory is bollocks.
Clear proof of Tory gerrymandering.
I think it was built by the Romans. The potholes were filled in by the tories.
The former is reasonable but, as all of Surrey knows, Conservatives do not repair potholes.
really... I have to drive in Sussex and Surrey, Surrey roads are infinitely better maintained, I can assure you.
Surrey has the highest claims cost for pothole damage of any authority in the country. Try driving down the Epsom Road into Guildford. My father even read an article in Birmingham crowning the Epsom Road as the most dug up in the country (I think it was something like 350 times in 5 years - and as we all know many potholes are previous repairs/holes failing.
perhaps Surrey residents are more likely to sue.. A pothole has to be a certain size before any Local council will act..
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Heaven forbid - then straight into point scoring
Classic and classless.
Praise indeed from the master.
I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
'I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but' Words to live by on PB.
It's how our politicians live by, of course we do the same.
The 19% lead was an outlier and I expect the lead is around 10%
Sure, absolutely. The point I was trying to get at though was that it was a really good demonstration of how predictive and stable leadership approval ratings are - even with a borderline daft outlier in the party figures, the leadership ratings from the same poll were already telling a different story.
I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
If he is (but is he?) would that really make him as bad as the terrorists?
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Heaven forbid - then straight into point scoring
Classic and classless.
Praise indeed from the master.
I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
'I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but' Words to live by on PB.
It's how our politicians live by, of course we do the same.
And our journalists who frankly, with one or two exceptions, are appalling
Quite interesting to see how this is covered by the BBC news .
They’ve given around 10 minutes to the terrorist incident and are onto the elections already . Interesting they’ve just interviewed a woman who said she normally votes Tory but because of the Labour Waspi pledge she’s now voting for them .
The 19% lead was an outlier and I expect the lead is around 10%
Sure, absolutely. The point I was trying to get at though was that it was a really good demonstration of how predictive and stable leadership approval ratings are - even with a borderline daft outlier in the party figures, the leadership ratings from the same poll were already telling a different story.
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact. There is however quite a bit of internet activity suggesting Corbyn apologists are implying that this was a false flag operation. True that isn't Corbyn himself, but the allusion is disgusting, and as for Corbyn if the cap fits...
What, some people are making up stuff about Corbyn on the internet, and it is being reported as gospel by PB Tories? What a novel development.
Quite interesting to see how this is covered by the BBC news .
They’ve given around 10 minutes to the terrorist incident and are onto the elections already . Interesting they’ve just interviewed a woman who said she normally votes Tory but because of the Labour Waspi pledge she’s now voting for them .
earlier Battersea and now also Warrington South are clearly going to surprise us on the 12th.... Is OGH offering us odds on his yellows winning either?
The most worrying thing about OGH’s letters is the timing. Unless they are cleverly being sent to postal voters only, they are going out way too early. Letters like that are supposed to land in the week of polling day, as anyone with any sense at LDHQ should already know.
It’s impossible in an election campaign to avoid the question of how these terrorist incidents might effect the public mood .
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
One thing that might change is that Boris is given an opportunity to show some gravitas - something that he has yet had little chance to show to the voters as PM.
I think what’s likely to happen is some of the opposition attacks against his character will be toned down for a few days and it could give him a short term boost .
I think for Corbyn the fact he’s already done the AN interview will be some relief to his team . AN was bound to bring up certain things in light of today’s terror incident and the next leaders debate is not till the 6th December .
The campaign must continue though , Johnson was asked about that but we can’t have terrorist incidents allowed to stop that .
He said he was not campaigning this evening
Circumstances may curtail it tomorrow but it will begin again but maybe not full on for a few days
There’s no reason to stop campaigning after today . That’s giving a win to terrorists .
Bozo should respond by starting campaigning, after a respectful pause. That would show them.
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact. There is however quite a bit of internet activity suggesting Corbyn apologists are implying that this was a false flag operation. True that isn't Corbyn himself, but the allusion is disgusting, and as for Corbyn if the cap fits...
What, some people are making up stuff about Corbyn on the internet, and it is being reported as gospel by PB Tories? What a novel development.
Next thing you know they'll be waving documents around, talking absolute bollocks about what they say and the media will report what they're saying as accusations when they're utterly groundless.
BBC Nick Robinson 7-way. the pewter standard for tv debates
Will be absolutely awful if previous years are anything to go by.
We have another one on Sunday too?
Please not another. Eventually the enthusiasm wears off. This process started for me this morning with the 'how many children do you have?' stuff. FFS. Personal morality as a factor left politics when it turned out that John Major was a 'player'. You lose the ability to be shocked after a revelation like that - it causes an overdose of adrenaline apparently.
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact. There is however quite a bit of internet activity suggesting Corbyn apologists are implying that this was a false flag operation. True that isn't Corbyn himself, but the allusion is disgusting, and as for Corbyn if the cap fits...
What, some people are making up stuff about Corbyn on the internet, and it is being reported as gospel by PB Tories? What a novel development.
Next thing you know they'll be waving documents around, talking absolute bollocks about what they say and the media will report what they're saying as accusations when they're utterly groundless.
I love how they don't even apologise for lying, simply go onto "well it's what he thinks anyway so that's ok"
BBC Nick Robinson 7-way. the pewter standard for tv debates
Will be absolutely awful if previous years are anything to go by.
We have another one on Sunday too?
Please not another. Eventually the enthusiasm wears off. This process started for me this morning with the 'how many children do you have?' stuff. FFS. Personal morality as a factor left politics when it turned out that John Major was a 'player'. You lose the ability to be shocked after a revelation like that - it causes an overdose of adrenaline apparently.
I thought we were supposed to be seeing lots of Priti Patel in the TV debates and studios during this election. Either that has not transpired for some reason (too busy defending her Essex marginal?) or I have just happened to have missed her each time.
earlier Battersea and now also Warrington South are clearly going to surprise us on the 12th.... Is OGH offering us odds on his yellows winning either?
The most worrying thing about OGH’s letters is the timing. Unless they are cleverly being sent to postal voters only, they are going out way too early. Letters like that are supposed to land in the week of polling day, as anyone with any sense at LDHQ should already know.
I live in Warrington South and liberals have zero chance here . The town voted leave , and Faisal rashid will be voted out and Andy Carter conservative will win .
I thought we were supposed to be seeing lots of Priti Patel in the TV debates and studios during this election. Either that has not transpired for some reason (too busy defending her Essex marginal?) or I have just happened to have missed her each time.
Maybe they're holding her back as a secret weapon.
Joking aside, the election doesn't even start for at least another week for the sort of swing voters who will decide things.
I thought we were supposed to be seeing lots of Priti Patel in the TV debates and studios during this election. Either that has not transpired for some reason (too busy defending her Essex marginal?) or I have just happened to have missed her each time.
She is addressing Harlow Tories Churchillian dinner this evening I am attending
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact.
Well, you still aren't quoting what you were referring to, but the only thing I can see by Casino that bears any resemblance to what you claimed was a simple statement that IF Corbyn criticised the police it would have a political effect.
If that's what you represented as a "report" that Corbyn WAS criticising the police, then that was simply a lie.
I thought we were supposed to be seeing lots of Priti Patel in the TV debates and studios during this election. Either that has not transpired for some reason (too busy defending her Essex marginal?) or I have just happened to have missed her each time.
Nasty sounding incident. Hope there's been no political point scoring going on here.😐
Heaven forefend. I'm sure the BJ boosters will have learned lessons from trying to immediately associate the Manchester Arena bombing with Jezza and predicting how disastrous it would be for his GE chances.
Heaven forbid - then straight into point scoring
Classic and classless.
Praise indeed from the master.
I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
'I haven't seen the evidence myself yet, but' Words to live by on PB.
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact. There is however quite a bit of internet activity suggesting Corbyn apologists are implying that this was a false flag operation. True that isn't Corbyn himself, but the allusion is disgusting, and as for Corbyn if the cap fits...
Well done for apologising, but claiming assumption was fact is a HUGE problem and makes everything significantly worse for all.
earlier Battersea and now also Warrington South are clearly going to surprise us on the 12th.... Is OGH offering us odds on his yellows winning either?
The most worrying thing about OGH’s letters is the timing. Unless they are cleverly being sent to postal voters only, they are going out way too early. Letters like that are supposed to land in the week of polling day, as anyone with any sense at LDHQ should already know.
I live in Warrington South and liberals have zero chance here . The town voted leave , and Faisal rashid will be voted out and Andy Carter conservative will win .
Don't tell me a Lib Dem leaflet starts off with a false premise? deary me...
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact. There is however quite a bit of internet activity suggesting Corbyn apologists are implying that this was a false flag operation. True that isn't Corbyn himself, but the allusion is disgusting, and as for Corbyn if the cap fits...
What, some people are making up stuff about Corbyn on the internet, and it is being reported as gospel by PB Tories? What a novel development.
Next thing you know they'll be waving documents around, talking absolute bollocks about what they say and the media will report what they're saying as accusations when they're utterly groundless.
I love how they don't even apologise for lying, simply go onto "well it's what he thinks anyway so that's ok"
I assume you are talking about Corbyn lying about Tory plans for the NHS and refusing to apologise when he was caught out.
I thought we were supposed to be seeing lots of Priti Patel in the TV debates and studios during this election. Either that has not transpired for some reason (too busy defending her Essex marginal?) or I have just happened to have missed her each time.
She is addressing Harlow Tories Churchillian dinner this evening I am attending
This sound fascinating. I'm headed out for an evening with Lucas Radebe and Dom Matteo, Ian Harte, Nigel Martyn and Simon Grayson. I wouldn't swap.
Corbyn is a lot of things, but I don't believe he'd be stupid enough to wade into the police so soon after the incident. People are that partisan on here that they're willing to believe anything about their political enemies. Have a word with yerselves!
I thought we were supposed to be seeing lots of Priti Patel in the TV debates and studios during this election. Either that has not transpired for some reason (too busy defending her Essex marginal?) or I have just happened to have missed her each time.
She is addressing Harlow Tories Churchillian dinner this evening I am attending
Even Stuart Dickson admits the SNP will not top 40% and Scottish polls always underestimate the SCon vote. It wasn't until the early hours of the Friday morning that the 2017 SCon revival became apparent. Let's see what the early Scottish results tell us a fortnight today!
- “ Even Stuart Dickson admits the SNP will not top 40% and Scottish polls always underestimate the SCon vote.”
... if as is being reported on here Corbyn is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action he is no better than the terrorists.
Can you quote what you're referring to?
If you look down thread Casino has suggested that Corbyn is equivocal over the police fatally shooting the perpetrator. This being the case, perhaps Corbyn might have second thoughts when confronted by a guy who appears to be wearing an explosives vest.
If you're saying that someone is "reporting" that Corbyn "is criticising Boris and the City of London Firearms unit for their decisive action" then you need to quote the actual words youi're referring to.
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
I apologise for claiming an assumption was fact. There is however quite a bit of internet activity suggesting Corbyn apologists are implying that this was a false flag operation. True that isn't Corbyn himself, but the allusion is disgusting, and as for Corbyn if the cap fits...
Well done for apologising, but claiming assumption was fact is a HUGE problem and makes everything significantly worse for all.
I trust you won't do the same in future
It wasn't done intentionally. Corbyn's back story as a terrorist apologist is so offensive that conjecture can be misinterpreted as fact.
I thought we were supposed to be seeing lots of Priti Patel in the TV debates and studios during this election. Either that has not transpired for some reason (too busy defending her Essex marginal?) or I have just happened to have missed her each time.
She is addressing Harlow Tories Churchillian dinner this evening I am attending
Comments
Classic and classless.
The truth of the matter is that we are very likely to No Deal anyway, so there is little harm in the ERG gathering recruits
On one level, the timing is fortunate for Corbyn - AN would have had previous quotes to fire at him if it was next week.
In two weeks time Corbyn might be PM and have to make life or death decisions about combating terrorism, his long record of naivety (at best) about the subject is surely an apt topic now.
It would make no more sense for us to avoid the topic now, than it would for Americans to heed the demands to "shut up about gun control" every time there is a mass shooting in the US.
Sometimes perceived wisdom can be wrong . In 2017 initially most would have thought it would have boosted May but as a previous poster mentioned and rightly so the subject of police numbers came to the fore , this time that’s not really the case .
Politicians though have to be very careful to not be seen to be making political capital over this . But to be blunt all parties will be behind the scenes working out a response that avoids being accused of point scoring but subtly makes a point .
Politics isn’t known for its morality or ethics and I wouldn’t expect that to start now .
Those who are voting Labour are disassociating it from Corbyn.
https://twitter.com/PithyFace/status/1200349068674949121?s=20
It rather dispels much of a sense of peril.
That said, I will only be here if it's looking safe from Corbyn being PM.
"The Labour Leadership backs Brexit"
Is that OK to say? I thought there were laws around official election comms?
Words to live by on PB.
Interesting to see how fast things have flipped. With last week's Opinum, the headline party lead was 19%, but the leadership ratings were suggesting much, much lower (about 8% iirc).
https://twitter.com/flaviblePolitic/status/1200471544360833024
I think for Corbyn the fact he’s already done the AN interview will be some relief to his team . AN was bound to bring up certain things in light of today’s terror incident and the next leaders debate is not till the 6th December .
The campaign must continue though , Johnson was asked about that but we can’t have terrorist incidents allowed to stop that .
If you can't do that, I'll conclude you're lying.
The smaller the lead the better for Boris as the real fear of Corbyn kicks in
And it is only 11 more days campaigning from tomorrow
Actual pro-Corbyn types and Labour tribalists are going to vote for him anyway.
Others will convince themselves the Conservatives are bound to win, so it's 'safe' voting for Corbyn. This happened last time. I expect it to happen again.
Also it raises possibility for media clangers by any politician, something said out of place, upsurge in Islamophobic posts by Tory members etc.
The political question of wether it’s best to own and process your home grown terrorists, or ignore them and hope nothing bad will come from it may also come up? A few weeks ago Trump said, Europe not processing their terrorists held in Syria, let them walk over there and cause some damage did he not?
Circumstances may curtail it tomorrow but it will begin again but maybe not full on for a few days
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/1200464067204452352?s=20
Why would you avoid here if Labour have a good night? That's a bit "only sing when you're winning", isn't it?
I will not be watching tonights debate on bbc1
https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1200476322008633347?s=20
They’ve given around 10 minutes to the terrorist incident and are onto the elections already . Interesting they’ve just interviewed a woman who said she normally votes Tory but because of the Labour Waspi pledge she’s now voting for them .
We have another one on Sunday too?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2019/nov/29/london-bridge-incident-police-city
2 members of the public have died
Can we now cut out the politics for a while
This is dreadful
Personal morality as a factor left politics when it turned out that John Major was a 'player'. You lose the ability to be shocked after a revelation like that - it causes an overdose of adrenaline apparently.
Joking aside, the election doesn't even start for at least another week for the sort of swing voters who will decide things.
If that's what you represented as a "report" that Corbyn WAS criticising the police, then that was simply a lie.
I trust you won't do the same in future
Having said that my eldest son and his partner lived in Uxbridge until they emigrated to New Zealand 16 years ago
That will be fun
That’s not quite what I said, but correct gist.
Stupid does not describe it