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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Ipsos-MORI Scotland poll suggests SNP gains from LAB and C

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Ipsos-MORI Scotland poll suggests SNP gains from LAB and CON north of the border

From @IpsosMORI Scotland poll with vote changes on Scottish results at GE2017. This points to SNP gains from both LAB and CON

Read the full story here


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    148grss148grss Posts: 3,714
    edited November 2019
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    Hope nobody is killed or seriously hurt besides the terrorist in London.
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    Sounds like Police have shot and killed the terrorist. Good job Metropolitan Police, who knows how many lives their shooting to kill has saved.

    Hope nobody else is hurt. Thoughts with any victims.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    No doubt Rufus Hound will be claiming this was a Tory backed conspiracy again.

    Hopefully as you say it is just the bastards, looks like the Police got there quickly as you would expect.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    Alistair said:

    Oh no, I'm sure the Tories will vigorously complain about deceptively edited footage.
    Two wrongs dont make a right. Anyone who does it is a shit.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2019
    FTPT
    Pulpstar said:

    Who the hell are all these Labour voters that emerge out of the woodwork with a few weeks to go to the election ?

    If you are a longtime Labour Voter who Hates Corbyn but hates the Tories more how would you respond to an opinion poll
    • a) Before an election is called
    • b) Just after the election is called
    • c) Two week before the election is called when the Tories look like they are heading for a massive majority
    The answers are
    • Not Labour
    • Undecided
    • Labour
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Police shot and killed someone apparently.
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    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,312
    edited November 2019
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who the hell are all these Labour voters that emerge out of the woodwork with a few weeks to go to the election ?

    If you are a longtime Labour Voter who Hates Corbyn but hates the Tories more how would you respond to an opinion poll
    • a) Before an election is called
    • b) Just after the election is called
    • c) Two week before the election is called when the Tories look like they are heading for a massive majority
    The answers are
    • Not Labour
    • Undecided
    • Labour
    That's the tribalism of the Labour vote in action. Just because tribal labour voters keep saying 'don't know' when they get closer to the ballot box they will end up deciding to vote for Labour anyway.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094
    spudgfsh said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who the hell are all these Labour voters that emerge out of the woodwork with a few weeks to go to the election ?

    If you are a longtime Labour Voter who Hates Corbyn but hates the Tories more how would you respond to an opinion poll
    • a) Before an election is called
    • b) Just after the election is called
    • c) Two week before the election is called when the Tories look like they are heading for a massive majority
    The answers are
    • Not Labour
    • Undecided
    • Labour
    That's the tribalism of the Labour vote in action. Just because tribal labour voters keep saying 'don't know' when they get closer to the ballot box they will end up deciding to vote for Labour anyway.
    Likewise the Tory cultists vote for Boris.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,369
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who the hell are all these Labour voters that emerge out of the woodwork with a few weeks to go to the election ?

    If you are a longtime Labour Voter who Hates Corbyn but hates the Tories more how would you respond to an opinion poll
    • a) Before an election is called
    • b) Just after the election is called
    • c) Two week before the election is called when the Tories look like they are heading for a massive majority
    The answers are
    • Not Labour
    • Undecided
    • Labour
    If you are a long time Tory voter who loathes Corbyn and Boris and is a Remainer how do you respond to an opinion poll as above

    Lib Dem
    Not sure
    Tory

    but of course millions of voters don't watch politics, have no idea about the opinion polls let alones the MRP data,
    What it means is that voters are polarising to their respective parties. IMHO
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,444
    spudgfsh said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who the hell are all these Labour voters that emerge out of the woodwork with a few weeks to go to the election ?

    If you are a longtime Labour Voter who Hates Corbyn but hates the Tories more how would you respond to an opinion poll
    • a) Before an election is called
    • b) Just after the election is called
    • c) Two week before the election is called when the Tories look like they are heading for a massive majority
    The answers are
    • Not Labour
    • Undecided
    • Labour
    That's the tribalism of the Labour vote in action. Just because tribal labour voters keep saying 'don't know' when they get closer to the ballot box they will end up deciding to vote for Labour anyway.
    Anyone who has followed Big G’s contortions in recent months should know this isn’t a Labour-only phenomenon.

    Never mind, once the election is out the way, PB’ers can get back to arguing that our political system is broken and we need an alternative to the tired old parties (that you mostly just voted for, again).
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    Good afternoon, everyone.
    Hope nobody innocent got hurt in London today.
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    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who the hell are all these Labour voters that emerge out of the woodwork with a few weeks to go to the election ?

    If you are a longtime Labour Voter who Hates Corbyn but hates the Tories more how would you respond to an opinion poll
    • a) Before an election is called
    • b) Just after the election is called
    • c) Two week before the election is called when the Tories look like they are heading for a massive majority
    The answers are
    • Not Labour
    • Undecided
    • Labour
    If you are a long time Tory voter who loathes Corbyn and Boris and is a Remainer how do you respond to an opinion poll as above

    Lib Dem
    Not sure
    Tory

    but of course millions of voters don't watch politics, have no idea about the opinion polls let alones the MRP data,
    What it means is that voters are polarising to their respective parties. IMHO
    Yes, we all need reminding from time to time that over 90% of the voters don't have interest in or access to the information that we all get excited about. A lot of people voting in this election (as in all elections) will have barely followed the campaign at all.
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    Good afternoon, everyone.
    Hope nobody innocent got hurt in London today.

    Someone was stabbed on London Bridge, a security source told Reuters.
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,181
    Reuters report someone stabbed then someone shot. BBC report police not approaching prone figure, suspicion explosives may be involved
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    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,637
    edited November 2019
    Police evacuating Borough Market, looks like a massive incident. Don't like the look of that jack-knifed lorry in the middle of the bridge.

    Met source: 5 casualties, but apparently they've detained the suspect.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    IanB2 said:

    Anyone who has followed Big G’s contortions in recent months should know this isn’t a Labour-only phenomenon.
    Never mind, once the election is out the way, PB’ers can get back to arguing that our political system is broken and we need an alternative to the tired old parties (that you mostly just voted for, again).

    You sound frustrated, Ian :smile:
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    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.
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    Police evacuating Borough Market, looks like a massive incident. Don't like the look of that jack-knifed lorry in the middle of the bridge.
    Met source: 5 casualties

    From one video it looks as thought the lorry might simply have been trying to do a U-turn to get away - very stupid if so.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094

    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.

    The Met say they have someone in custody.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,369

    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.

    they are not approaching the suspects body..
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    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,312

    spudgfsh said:

    That's the tribalism of the Labour vote in action. Just because tribal labour voters keep saying 'don't know' when they get closer to the ballot box they will end up deciding to vote for Labour anyway.

    Likewise the Tory cultists vote for Boris.
    But the Tory cultists wouldn't be undecided over Boris as long as he's looking like he's going to win a majority.
    There is a big difference between how Labour and Conservative deal with elections. The Labour Party's first aim is to improve the life of others, pick the policies to meet that and then try to win power. (Execpt for Tony Blair). For the Conservatives it's always been the other way around, Get power and then work out the policies which will help people after they are there. It is why they have been so much more successful than Labour over the last 100 years in winning elections.
    Europe policy is the only thing that goes against this for the Tories.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited November 2019

    Police evacuating Borough Market, looks like a massive incident. Don't like the look of that jack-knifed lorry in the middle of the bridge.

    Met source: 5 casualties, but apparently they've detained the suspect.

    Detained ? Not from the video I've seen.
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    Polls are irrelevant.

    The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.

    Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.
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    Assuming the Labour Party redundancies story is correct it's extraordinary timing. Making people redundant during a GE campaign, and just before Christmas too is an absolute gift to the Tories. They have the perfect example of Labour running out of money and unemployment being the cost. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the story the optics are just terrible. Surely CCHQ and their mates in the media will be all over this.
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    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.
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    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.

    The Met say they have someone in custody.
    So 2 suspects? Because 1 is dead.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,444
    Pulpstar said:

    Police evacuating Borough Market, looks like a massive incident. Don't like the look of that jack-knifed lorry in the middle of the bridge.

    Met source: 5 casualties, but apparently they've detained the suspect.

    Detained ? Not from the video I've seen.
    One person arrested, several people injured (BBC)
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094

    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.

    The Met say they have someone in custody.
    So 2 suspects? Because 1 is dead.
    Says who? The video shows a taser not a gun.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.

    The Met say they have someone in custody.
    So 2 suspects? Because 1 is dead.
    Says who? The video shows a taser not a gun.
    There are several videos where you can hear gunfire.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Looks like civilian have a go was pulled off the guy before SCO19 shot him.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.

    The Met say they have someone in custody.
    So 2 suspects? Because 1 is dead.
    Says who? The video shows a taser not a gun.
    On the left there is a yellow taser but that isn't used, the officer on the right clearly has a firearm which he discharges - I assume you've seen the video shot from the bus ?
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    5 casualties. 😢

    Suspect dead. Hope there's no other terrorists involved and no other follow up attacks.

    The Met say they have someone in custody.
    So 2 suspects? Because 1 is dead.
    Says who? The video shows a taser not a gun.
    Sky said it earlier was what the Police said, but now they're saying detained.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    spudgfsh said:


    That's the tribalism of the Labour vote in action. Just because tribal labour voters keep saying 'don't know' when they get closer to the ballot box they will end up deciding to vote for Labour anyway.

    The drone vote is incredibly sticky for Labour.

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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    TOPPING said:

    Looks like civilian have a go was pulled off the guy before SCO19 shot him.

    Looks that way
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Bomb involved.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,369
    148grss said:
    Holy shit.. they must have thought he had a bomb around his body
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    TOPPING said:

    Looks like civilian have a go was pulled off the guy before SCO19 shot him.

    Brave, brave people. Your worst nightmare to end up in the middle of that.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Bomb involved.

    Which explains why they shot him
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    humbugger said:

    Assuming the Labour Party redundancies story is correct it's extraordinary timing. Making people redundant during a GE campaign, and just before Christmas too is an absolute gift to the Tories. They have the perfect example of Labour running out of money and unemployment being the cost. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the story the optics are just terrible. Surely CCHQ and their mates in the media will be all over this.

    They really should be

    What were Labour thinking

    Plus the unions gifted them over 3 mil just the other day

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    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,333
    IanB2 said:

    Everyone is going to be frustrated.
    LibDems and Greens are going to be disappointed that the best breakthrough chance for ages evaporated, and the chances of reversing Brexit look slim (at least in the short term). People who argue for realignment or new political parties will have seen all of TIG, BXP, various Indys and a record number of defector MPs mostly to the LibDem crash and burn. Labour will see Corbynism arrive at its dead end and, since the next Blair is not yet arisen, face a choice between electing a Kinnock figure or choosing another left winger to spiral further down their rabbit hole. Tories will briefly be pleased to be winners, then find they have been elected on the back of no enthusiasm whatsoever, with no programme whatsoever, and when the grim reality of Brexit returns to fill the airwaves will descend to so far unplumbed depths of unpopularity.
    The only people who should be cheerful are non-Tory councillors due to defend their seats next May.

    Hard to argue against most of this and therefore I won't. I love FPTP but the reason I do is that it makes for such interest and drama. I love the complexities, the seat by seat mini narratives, the possibility for sweeping change via landslides, all of that. But as a fair electoral system? As a mechanism for good government? A system one would come up with given a clean sheet of paper? Not on your nelly.
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    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    There's many things I'd have a go at Owen Jones for but that is not one of them.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736

    Polls are irrelevant.

    The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.

    Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.

    Can you elaborate on your meaning?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    Tbh that's a sensible course of action.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,227

    Sounds like Police have shot and killed the terrorist. Good job Metropolitan Police, who knows how many lives their shooting to kill has saved.

    Hope nobody else is hurt. Thoughts with any victims.

    +1000.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    shit

    London Ambulance declare major incident
    London Ambulance Service said it had declared a major incident.

    A statement on Twitter said: "We have now declared a major incident and have a number of crews at the scene in London Bridge. We will share more information as soon as we have it."
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    Tbh that's a sensible course of action.
    Of course it is

    But kudos to the guy who looks like got stuck in
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    There's many things I'd have a go at Owen Jones for but that is not one of them.
    Yep.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    There's many things I'd have a go at Owen Jones for but that is not one of them.
    Seconded
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Bloody hell, hope everyone injured recovers quickly. Looks like the police did a solid job here and kept everyone safe, especially if it is as seems and the guy had a bomb.
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    Floater said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    Tbh that's a sensible course of action.
    Of course it is

    But kudos to the guy who looks like got stuck in
    I don't blame him at all, I'd have been pedalling like Victoria Pendleton in that scenario.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736

    It does sound like a member of the public tackled a man he believes was wearing a suicide vest. If so? Balls. Of. Steel.

    Priti Patel?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Floater said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    Tbh that's a sensible course of action.
    Of course it is

    But kudos to the guy who looks like got stuck in
    I don't blame him at all, I'd have been pedalling like Victoria Pendleton in that scenario.
    Yeah same here, massive respect to the guy who tackled the terrorist and prevented any more injuries or death, but I can fully admit to not being that brave.
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    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Much respect to the police who run towards a man allegedly wearing a suicide vest
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    Tbh that's a sensible course of action.
    Of course it is

    But kudos to the guy who looks like got stuck in
    I don't blame him at all, I'd have been pedalling like Victoria Pendleton in that scenario.
    Yeah same here, massive respect to the guy who tackled the terrorist and prevented any more injuries or death, but I can fully admit to not being that brave.
    I guess I`d say the same - though hard to say how one would react given the situation.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sky reporter indicating this might have started on a bus?
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    Floater said:

    Much respect to the police who run towards a man allegedly wearing a suicide vest

    Yes, looks like police did a really professional job. Reassuring.
    I was planning a trip to London with my children - makes one think twice.
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    AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,637
    edited November 2019
    Stocky said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    Tbh that's a sensible course of action.
    Of course it is

    But kudos to the guy who looks like got stuck in
    I don't blame him at all, I'd have been pedalling like Victoria Pendleton in that scenario.
    Yeah same here, massive respect to the guy who tackled the terrorist and prevented any more injuries or death, but I can fully admit to not being that brave.
    I guess I`d say the same - though hard to say how one would react given the situation.
    I marvel at people who have that kind of bottle, like the chef who took out one of the Borough Market attackers with a crate. Epic bravery.
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    Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Gabs3 said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
    Facts are generally quite important I find, lets wait and see
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,444
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Everyone is going to be frustrated.
    LibDems and Greens are going to be disappointed that the best breakthrough chance for ages evaporated, and the chances of reversing Brexit look slim (at least in the short term). People who argue for realignment or new political parties will have seen all of TIG, BXP, various Indys and a record number of defector MPs mostly to the LibDem crash and burn. Labour will see Corbynism arrive at its dead end and, since the next Blair is not yet arisen, face a choice between electing a Kinnock figure or choosing another left winger to spiral further down their rabbit hole. Tories will briefly be pleased to be winners, then find they have been elected on the back of no enthusiasm whatsoever, with no programme whatsoever, and when the grim reality of Brexit returns to fill the airwaves will descend to so far unplumbed depths of unpopularity.
    The only people who should be cheerful are non-Tory councillors due to defend their seats next May.

    Hard to argue against most of this and therefore I won't. I love FPTP but the reason I do is that it makes for such interest and drama. I love the complexities, the seat by seat mini narratives, the possibility for sweeping change via landslides, all of that. But as a fair electoral system? As a mechanism for good government? A system one would come up with given a clean sheet of paper? Not on your nelly.
    Which is why even the British, when given a choice of voting system for someone else (post war Germany, NI assembly, various former colonies) never introduces FPTP.

    I reckon that if we had STV, its myriad nuances and complexities would be more than sufficient to keep PB’s team of budding analysts profitably occupied and amused.
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    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who the hell are all these Labour voters that emerge out of the woodwork with a few weeks to go to the election ?

    If you are a longtime Labour Voter who Hates Corbyn but hates the Tories more how would you respond to an opinion poll
    • a) Before an election is called
    • b) Just after the election is called
    • c) Two week before the election is called when the Tories look like they are heading for a massive majority
    The answers are
    • Not Labour
    • Undecided
    • Labour
    If you are a long time Tory voter who loathes Corbyn and Boris and is a Remainer how do you respond to an opinion poll as above

    Lib Dem
    Not sure
    Tory

    but of course millions of voters don't watch politics, have no idea about the opinion polls let alones the MRP data,
    What it means is that voters are polarising to their respective parties. IMHO
    Loathes Boris and is a Remainer - and votes Tory?
    Shome mishtake shurely.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,444
    Gabs3 said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
    Because you are a Tory whose first thought in circumstances like this is of party political advantage. It might surprise you to discover that ordinary people don’t think like that.
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    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,312
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Everyone is going to be frustrated.
    LibDems and Greens are going to be disappointed that the best breakthrough chance for ages evaporated, and the chances of reversing Brexit look slim (at least in the short term). People who argue for realignment or new political parties will have seen all of TIG, BXP, various Indys and a record number of defector MPs mostly to the LibDem crash and burn. Labour will see Corbynism arrive at its dead end and, since the next Blair is not yet arisen, face a choice between electing a Kinnock figure or choosing another left winger to spiral further down their rabbit hole. Tories will briefly be pleased to be winners, then find they have been elected on the back of no enthusiasm whatsoever, with no programme whatsoever, and when the grim reality of Brexit returns to fill the airwaves will descend to so far unplumbed depths of unpopularity.
    The only people who should be cheerful are non-Tory councillors due to defend their seats next May.

    Hard to argue against most of this and therefore I won't. I love FPTP but the reason I do is that it makes for such interest and drama. I love the complexities, the seat by seat mini narratives, the possibility for sweeping change via landslides, all of that. But as a fair electoral system? As a mechanism for good government? A system one would come up with given a clean sheet of paper? Not on your nelly.
    Which is why even the British, when given a choice of voting system for someone else (post war Germany, NI assembly, various former colonies) never introduces FPTP.

    I reckon that if we had STV, its myriad nuances and complexities would be more than sufficient to keep PB’s team of budding analysts profitably occupied and amused.
    It has the benefit that the public can vote out a particular politician even if they like their party.
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    Floater said:

    shit

    London Ambulance declare major incident
    London Ambulance Service said it had declared a major incident.

    A statement on Twitter said: "We have now declared a major incident and have a number of crews at the scene in London Bridge. We will share more information as soon as we have it."

    I wouldn't read too much into a Major Incident declaration. It's just a way of getting resources spooled up and the emergency services going all JESIP. Better to call one early and then stand down than realise too late what you're facing.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited November 2019
    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
    Facts are generally quite important I find, lets wait and see
    Boris has a serious job to do here as the PM. He'll be in the middle of a COBRA meeting as we speak.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,424
    edited November 2019
    Stocky said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Oh Christ, Owen Jones is an eyewitness...live on Sky.

    Was he the 'have a go' guy?
    No, he was riding his bike, and got out of dodge asap when it kicked off.
    Tbh that's a sensible course of action.
    Of course it is

    But kudos to the guy who looks like got stuck in
    I don't blame him at all, I'd have been pedalling like Victoria Pendleton in that scenario.
    Yeah same here, massive respect to the guy who tackled the terrorist and prevented any more injuries or death, but I can fully admit to not being that brave.
    I guess I`d say the same - though hard to say how one would react given the situation.
    People sometimes surprise themselves in such a scenario, and it can be that anger, or fear for others, overrides fear for oneself. There are times when fear is a very sensible response.
    There have been a number of quite exceptional responses by normal people to recent terror incidents.
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    Cyclefree said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
    I share your views about Corbyn and some of the people he associates with.
    But we do not yet know who the terrorist is. Wise to wait until we do before jumping to conclusions, don’t you think?
    Let alone making political points.
    In the meanwhile, respect to the guy who tackled the attacker and the police and emergency services and let’s hope all those attacked will be well.
    Well said Cyclefree
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    IanB2 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
    Because you are a Tory whose first thought in circumstances like this is of party political advantage. It might surprise you to discover that ordinary people don’t think like that.
    "good day to bury bad news " anyone?

    There are people like that in all walks of life and parties
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    This is like 2017 GE campaign all over again...
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    Polls are irrelevant.

    The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.

    Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.

    It used to be that having a constituency on the A1 was the prerequisite for GE success. Thatcher Finchley, Major Huntingdon, Blair Sedgefield
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    Jason said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
    Facts are generally quite important I find, lets wait and see
    Boris has a serious job to do here as the PM. He'll be in the middle of a COBRA meeting as we speak.
    If he doesn't have any letters that he needs to be photographed signing, that is.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    This is like 2017 GE campaign all over again...

    Except Bozza will know how to handle terrorist attacks on a more instinctive level than May who was barely human.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,444

    Polls are irrelevant.

    The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.

    Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.

    It used to be that having a constituency on the A1 was the prerequisite for GE success. Thatcher Finchley, Major Huntingdon, Blair Sedgefield
    Doesn’t it go right through Corbyn’s seat? ;)
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736

    Polls are irrelevant.

    The fact is that all post war prime ministers that first come to power at an election are alumni of Oxford university.

    Jeremy Corbyn did not go to Oxford. He will not be prime minister.

    It used to be that having a constituency on the A1 was the prerequisite for GE success. Thatcher Finchley, Major Huntingdon, Blair Sedgefield
    I `m not sure whether Vulpus Rex is joking or alleging some some sort of conspiracy theory.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    MaxPB said:

    This is like 2017 GE campaign all over again...

    Except Bozza will know how to handle terrorist attacks on a more instinctive level than May who was barely human.
    I would also venture to suggest he'll have a better handle on things than Mr Corbyn will in that regard too.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,444
    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Floater said:

    Gabs3 said:

    It is worth pointing out it was these sort of terrorists in Israel that Jeremy Corbyn refers to as his friends.

    We can do that Later - not right now
    Why should we have to wait until people forget about the experience of this threat? Civilians in Israel have to face these sort of attacks on a weekly basis from Hamas and Hezbollah. I think it is right we remind people in the moment who Jeremy Corbyn's friends are. Think of how you feel in this moment when you consider if your conscience will be clean when you vote for this man's party.
    Because you are a Tory whose first thought in circumstances like this is of party political advantage. It might surprise you to discover that ordinary people don’t think like that.
    "good day to bury bad news " anyone?

    There are people like that in all walks of life and parties
    Bozo is heading to Andrew Neil’s tv studio as we speak?
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    Fucking hell imagine trying to get political capital out of this - shameful
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited November 2019
    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    Floater said:

    Much respect to the police who run towards a man allegedly wearing a suicide vest

    Yes, looks like police did a really professional job. Reassuring.
    I was planning a trip to London with my children - makes one think twice.
    Don't. London is extremely safe and getting people to change how they go about life is how the terrorists beat us.
    The probability of being a terrorist victim is minute. Car trips OTOH...
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,181
    Witness on the bbc say the suspect pulled back his coat to reveal 'a vest', she was on a bus on the bridge as it happened
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    MaxPB said:

    Stocky said:

    Floater said:

    Much respect to the police who run towards a man allegedly wearing a suicide vest

    Yes, looks like police did a really professional job. Reassuring.
    I was planning a trip to London with my children - makes one think twice.
    Don't. London is extremely safe and getting people to change how they go about life is how the terrorists beat us.
    Agree - but its only human to worry about your kids
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    Fucking hell imagine trying to get political capital out of this - shameful

    Just grow up will you. Lots of people are terrorised and at least one person is dead

    Show some respect
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    You've got more of a chance of being killed by a falling coconut than a terrorist incident
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    BTW - see the size of that knife the bystander walks away with?
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    You've got more of a chance of being killed by a falling coconut than a terrorist incident

    Just stop.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205

    Fucking hell imagine trying to get political capital out of this - shameful

    Corbyn successfully did so last time...
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,996
    Floater said:

    BTW - see the size of that knife the bystander walks away with?

    Massive knife.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Fucking hell imagine trying to get political capital out of this - shameful

    Fucking hell imagine being the guy who brought that issue up.
This discussion has been closed.