politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Endgame. The death of the referendum mandate draws near
Comments
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Let's take a rain check on that on 1st November.....Gallowgate said:
I’m a European Union citizen actually. So are you.Philip_Thompson said:
Our country is the United Kingdom not "Europe". The comparison for Singapore isn't Singapore, it is Asia.DougSeal said:
Singaporeans discriminate against people not from Singapore. Australians discriminate against people not from Australia. Why should we, being European, not discriminate against people or from Europe?Philip_Thompson said:
We are not reducing the talent pool from 28 to 1 country. We are taking steps to liberalise migration in the right areas to expand the talent pool to 195 countries.Noo said:
You really are a thick twat aren't you?Philip_Thompson said:Define work.
People from across the world still get here so something must be working even if other bits can be improved. If we can stop relying upon the crutch of free movement then we will be better motivated to fix any flaws with our system that impede the creme de la creme from coming.
Its rather bigoted of @Noo to consider [primarily white] Europeans to be the "creme de la creme" we need to be attracting, rather than the creme de la creme of the entire world whether that be Asians, North or South Americans, Africans or indeed Europeans.
At no point did I say that Europeans are the creme de la creme. I said reducing the talent pool of easy hires from 28 to 1 country will be detrimental to attracting the creme de la creme here.
As far as I can tell, the proposals won't change the barriers to those coming from outside the EU, but will significantly increase the barriers for those from within the rest of the EU. That is an increase in the difficulty of hiring.
Meanwhile, other EU countries are not raising their barrier to hiring, which means they will become more competitive in terms of hiring and investment.
It's sad that you had to make a baseless accusation based on what you thought I was saying rather than what I actually said. But I forgive you, because it looks a lot like you were being a cretin rather than being malicious. But you should still apologise.
28 countries do not trump 195 countries. Until you come to me with a reason why we need to discriminate against Singaporeans and Chinese in order to get the world's best people, all I detect from you is racism.
Singaporeans don't discriminate against people not from Asia in the way racists like you advocate. That would be the comparison. If Singaporeans said we'll welcome any Asians but non-Asians aren't that welcome.0 -
I won't apologise for calling you out on your bigotry. You look down your nose and want to discriminate against 167 countries and their citizens.Noo said:You need to apologise for calling me a bigot.
You are attacking straw men:
"while keeping tight restrictions on Africans, Asians, North and South Americans", "restricting Singaporeans, Chinese". I've said nothing of the sort.
I've said the increase in barriers is detrimental. Indeed, if Patel were proposing something like Trump's "Muslim ban", stopping immigration wholesale from certain countries, that would be objectionable.
We should be working in the opposite direction, making it easier for people to move around for work. Not harder.
As it happens, I think that the focus should be on making it easier for the rest of the world. But making it harder for Europeans under the banner of equality is rather like saying we should seize the homes of the wealthy and give them to the homeless. Yes, it's "fairer" in a weird way, but it's also breathtakingly missing the point and enormously stupid.
You, too, are breathtakingly missing the point and enormously stupid.
You went off on a rant about what you imagined I believed, and you got it wrong. I regret that you didn't stop to take the time to think about how much your mind was contributing to what you thought I was saying rather than just reading what I said, but it's ok because you've only embarrassed yourself. Again. I will accept your apology, if you're man enough to offer it.
Patel has proposed lowering barriers on those seeking work in academia etc across the globe, while ending free movement from just 27 [primarily white] European nations. You react with horror at this proposal. That is bigotry. Making it easier for the world's best to get academic roles etc is not going to make our universities worse like you claim.
Until you address the fact that there are 195 countries not 28 in this small world of ours, I have no apologies for someone so small minded as to think only 28 matter.0 -
Why do you care? You want Brexit so hush now.bigjohnowls said:
"I am determined to stop No Deal but Chukka and Lucianna won't let me support the only realistic chance to stop it"Pro_Rata said:Pro_Rata said:
Corbyn promised he would be prepared to stop No Deal Brexit by any means.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Liar.
YinYang.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
It's true, Corbyn's stated position on No Deal actually outflanks Swinson's Meatloaf position (Corbyn would do anything to stop No Deal, Swinson won't do that)
Of course if Boris gets a better Deal all options to stop BREXIT have gone forever0 -
bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
It depends on if you think Johnson can bypass the benn act if he can’t then VONC on 1/11 then election called 14 days latter no need for GNU but I wonder if labour will be too scared to for i.0 -
Two reasons.NickPalmer said:
The LibDem strategy seems odd - rather than say "We won't vote for it because the numbers aren't there" why not challenge Corbyn to put himself forward and see if the numbers are there? If they aren't, then we can see about other possibilities. But as things stand, they just seem to be putting party interest (attracting dissident Tory voters) ahead of actually stopping Brexit. It's not a good look, it's weird that Swinson is more reluctant than some of the dissident Tories, and I know LibDem party members who are very uncomfortable about it.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
1) There is no vacancy at the moment because Boris is still in post.
2) Given the position of Jo Swinson about how terrible Corbyn will be she now has to be able to say "we had to make a decision between Jeremy Corbyn as PM or a No-Deal Brexit..."
3) She is still hoping that Boris will be forced into calling for an extension.0 -
Sure it didn't mate. Just a big coincidence. His squeeze being given funding by someone who used to work for him.dyedwoolie said:
Except that had nothing whatsoever to do with Johnsonrkrkrk said:Boris looks seriously dodgy over this Addis I business.
The line that they won tech funding without having a tech product is pretty damning. Bit like Graylings ferries
Innotech was the only company admitted in the first wave of Sirius startups that did not have a tech product, the whistleblower said.
“It was fundamentally an event company.
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You are wrong.DougSeal said:
An Australian employer will prioritise the Australian. That’s the way it is. So you want a completely open border policy where there is global free movement? Your party doesn’t. I would be happy with that.Philip_Thompson said:
So Brits being European makes the Greek and Germans and Poles etc better than Singaporeans and Chinese. Wow . . .DougSeal said:
We are European. Australians prioritise people from the Australian continent over Europeans so I don’t see why there is a problem with us prioritising our own continent in the same way. You wouldn’t ask an Australian employer to prioritise a Brit over an AustralianPhilip_Thompson said:Why are Europeans so much better than Singaporeans or Chinese in your eyes?
So you are a Trump fanboy? I mean he wants America first and American employers to prioritise Americans - you want Europe first and European employers to prioritise Europeans? What's the difference between you and Trump?
I'd expect the Australian employer to want to get the best candidate they can get for the job. If that's an Australian so be it. If it is not an Australian I would expect Brits to be treated on a level playing field as Australia's nearby neighbours* like Singapore. I wouldn't expect them to put Brits behind 27 of their nearest neighbours just because of geography.
* Not New Zealand. New Zealand and Australia have a unique special relationship, like we do with Ireland.
If a Brit gets a visa, I think you'll find the Australian employer will hire the better candidate whomever that may be.0 -
I do.Gallowgate said:
Why do you care? You want Brexit so hush now.bigjohnowls said:
"I am determined to stop No Deal but Chukka and Lucianna won't let me support the only realistic chance to stop it"Pro_Rata said:Pro_Rata said:
Corbyn promised he would be prepared to stop No Deal Brexit by any means.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Liar.
YinYang.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
It's true, Corbyn's stated position on No Deal actually outflanks Swinson's Meatloaf position (Corbyn would do anything to stop No Deal, Swinson won't do that)
Of course if Boris gets a better Deal all options to stop BREXIT have gone forever0 -
Did you actually write ‘rain check’? Wow!MarqueeMark said:
Let's take a rain check on that on 1st November.....Gallowgate said:
I’m a European Union citizen actually. So are you.Philip_Thompson said:
Our country is the United Kingdom not "Europe". The comparison for Singapore isn't Singapore, it is Asia.DougSeal said:
Singaporeans discriminate against people not from Singapore. Australians discriminate against people not from Australia. Why should we, being European, not discriminate against people or from Europe?Philip_Thompson said:
We are not reducing the talent pool from 28 to 1 country. We are taking steps to liberalise migration in the right areas to expand the talent pool to 195 countries.Noo said:
You really are a thick twat aren't you?Philip_Thompson said:Define work.
People from across the world still get here so something must be working even if other bits can be improved. If we can stop relying upon the crutch of free movement then we will be better motivated to fix any flaws with our system that impede the creme de la creme from coming.
Its rather bigoted of @Noo to consider [primarily white] Europeans to be the "creme de la creme" we need to be attracting, rather than the creme de la creme of the entire world whether that be Asians, North or South Americans, Africans or indeed Europeans.
At no point did I say that Europeans are the creme de la creme. I said reducing the talent pool of easy hires from 28 to 1 country will be detrimental to attracting the creme de la creme here.
As far as I can tell, the proposals won't change the barriers to those coming from outside the EU, but will significantly increase the barriers for those from within the rest of the EU. That is an increase in the difficulty of hiring.
Meanwhile, other EU countries are not raising their barrier to hiring, which means they will become more competitive in terms of hiring and investment.
It's sad that you had to make a baseless accusation based on what you thought I was saying rather than what I actually said. But I forgive you, because it looks a lot like you were being a cretin rather than being malicious. But you should still apologise.
28 countries do not trump 195 countries. Until you come to me with a reason why we need to discriminate against Singaporeans and Chinese in order to get the world's best people, all I detect from you is racism.
Singaporeans don't discriminate against people not from Asia in the way racists like you advocate. That would be the comparison. If Singaporeans said we'll welcome any Asians but non-Asians aren't that welcome.0 -
50-50. Parliament are doing their best to make one impossible.Stereotomy said:
Still expecting a deal then?Philip_Thompson said:Johnson is doing in his negotiations exactly what May should have done all along. Shame that it has taken this long to get here.
If the EU want to insist no deal is better than a permanent backstop it is entirely appropriate and reasonable to discuss where the customs posts the EU are demanding are put. Because that is logically what they are insisting if they continue to demand the backstop unicorn we will never give.
Suddenly a time limited backstop doesn't seem such a bad idea.
Johnson is turning the tables on their nonsense and moving the Overton Window. Good for him!
If Parliament stood behind our PM not against him then yes definitely.0 -
Follow the money.....TGOHF2 said:So Germany and France offered 7 years and the Commission knows nothing about it - farce..
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How was the argument shot down?Jonathan said:
How to spectacularly shoot your own argument down. Impressive.Philip_Thompson said:
So Brits being European makes the Greek and Germans and Poles etc better than Singaporeans and Chinese. Wow . . .DougSeal said:
We are European. Australians prioritise people from the Australian continent over Europeans so I don’t see why there is a problem with us prioritising our own continent in the same way. You wouldn’t ask an Australian employer to prioritise a Brit over an AustralianPhilip_Thompson said:Why are Europeans so much better than Singaporeans or Chinese in your eyes?
So you are a Trump fanboy? I mean he wants America first and American employers to prioritise Americans - you want Europe first and European employers to prioritise Europeans? What's the difference between you and Trump?
I'd expect the Australian employer to want to get the best candidate they can get for the job. If that's an Australian so be it. If it is not an Australian I would expect Brits to be treated on a level playing field as Australia's nearby neighbours* like Singapore. I wouldn't expect them to put Brits behind 27 of their nearest neighbours just because of geography.
* Not New Zealand. New Zealand and Australia have a unique special relationship, like we do with Ireland.0 -
It isn’t Parliament’s job to ‘stand behind our PM’ in fact that’s the opposite of its job.Philip_Thompson said:
50-50. Parliament are doing their best to make one impossible.Stereotomy said:
Still expecting a deal then?Philip_Thompson said:Johnson is doing in his negotiations exactly what May should have done all along. Shame that it has taken this long to get here.
If the EU want to insist no deal is better than a permanent backstop it is entirely appropriate and reasonable to discuss where the customs posts the EU are demanding are put. Because that is logically what they are insisting if they continue to demand the backstop unicorn we will never give.
Suddenly a time limited backstop doesn't seem such a bad idea.
Johnson is turning the tables on their nonsense and moving the Overton Window. Good for him!
If Parliament stood behind our PM not against him then yes definitely.0 -
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Prove that with the Lib Dems the vote will pass before you lay the blame at their door step he doesn’t so it’s irrelevant and just another organized labour smear as they see their votes sliding away to LD and TBPbigjohnowls said:
"I am determined to stop No Deal but Chukka and Lucianna won't let me support the only realistic chance to stop it"Pro_Rata said:Pro_Rata said:
Corbyn promised he would be prepared to stop No Deal Brexit by any means.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Liar.
YinYang.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
It's true, Corbyn's stated position on No Deal actually outflanks Swinson's Meatloaf position (Corbyn would do anything to stop No Deal, Swinson won't do that)
Of course if Boris gets a better Deal all options to stop BREXIT have gone forever0 -
I despite Farage and was disgusted by Leave.EU - I though the Breaking Point poster was despicable.Nigel_Foremain said:
If you were an anti-racist you would be far more critical of Brexit as a concept and the tactics used by Farage in particular and the Leave campaign. No genuine anti-racist could be such a Brexit fan-boy, it just does not stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.Philip_Thompson said:
I've been anti-racist my entire life. I would never dare suggest eg that Diane Abbott should be deported just because she isn't white. You are sickening and should apologise but you won't because racists like you never understand what is wrong with their racism.nico67 said:
Really ! Spare me the lecture , it was not intended as you seem to imply .Philip_Thompson said:
Are you Trump in disguise?nico67 said:Shame Priti Patel couldn’t deport herself .
Vile woman .
That is the most shockingly racist thing I've read here, other than quotes from Trump. I suppose you wonder why she doesn't "go home to where she comes from"? Its London by the way you disgusting racist.
But I’m heartened though that so many Leavers are so anti racist !
I voted Brexit despite Farage not because of him.
You are making a "no true Scotsman" fallacy.0 -
Your ‘*’. Brilliant stuff.Philip_Thompson said:
How was the argument shot down?Jonathan said:
How to spectacularly shoot your own argument down. Impressive.Philip_Thompson said:
So Brits being European makes the Greek and Germans and Poles etc better than Singaporeans and Chinese. Wow . . .DougSeal said:
We are European. Australians prioritise people from the Australian continent over Europeans so I don’t see why there is a problem with us prioritising our own continent in the same way. You wouldn’t ask an Australian employer to prioritise a Brit over an AustralianPhilip_Thompson said:Why are Europeans so much better than Singaporeans or Chinese in your eyes?
So you are a Trump fanboy? I mean he wants America first and American employers to prioritise Americans - you want Europe first and European employers to prioritise Europeans? What's the difference between you and Trump?
I'd expect the Australian employer to want to get the best candidate they can get for the job. If that's an Australian so be it. If it is not an Australian I would expect Brits to be treated on a level playing field as Australia's nearby neighbours* like Singapore. I wouldn't expect them to put Brits behind 27 of their nearest neighbours just because of geography.
* Not New Zealand. New Zealand and Australia have a unique special relationship, like we do with Ireland.1 -
Lmao most people involved in things like this have worked for most major parties or figures at some point. If they can show some sort of influence by Johnson, sure, but this is stretching things beyond what's reasonable. The woman in questions probity for one, and on no evidencerkrkrk said:
Sure it didn't mate. Just a big coincidence. His squeeze being given funding by someone who used to work for him.dyedwoolie said:
Except that had nothing whatsoever to do with Johnsonrkrkrk said:Boris looks seriously dodgy over this Addis I business.
The line that they won tech funding without having a tech product is pretty damning. Bit like Graylings ferries
Innotech was the only company admitted in the first wave of Sirius startups that did not have a tech product, the whistleblower said.
“It was fundamentally an event company.0 -
Labour has 55 Leaver MPs they will only support a GONU lead by LOTOMJW said:
This is the kind of contemptible rubbish we've come to expect from the Labour Party under Corbyn. Close isn't good enough. The MPs who would put Corbyn over the top, quite legitimately, refuse to make a man they believe to be an antisemitic crank, Prime Minister.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
Therefore the only option with a chance is a Labour-backed unity PM. If that doesn't happen it's because Labour thought they had a God-given right to force a PM even a lot of people who'd normally be Labour voters (like myself, a member until last year), believe is offensively unfit to become Prime Minister.
The little Parties have to Choose No Deal or Corbyn
I am happy either way TBH
LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal0 -
Yes she will find it hard not to be called a hypocrite.MarqueeMark said:0 -
If the Tories hadn’t made the priority their internal party management rather than finding a deal that could command a good majority of the Commons then the UK would have already left the EU.
May lost her majority and still ploughed on as if she had a huge majority . The whole sorry episode has all been about the Tories never ending EU psychodrama .
First the EU referendum and everything since .1 -
Eh? We're not trying to win over the Labour front bench!justin124 said:
The Tories are now seeking to appeal to humanity at its worst.SandyRentool said:It may come as a shock to some of my comrades from the hand-wringing Islington wing of the Labour Party, but I am confident that Priti Patel strikes a chord with many Labour voters, unlike Diane Abbott.
People in working class communities feel the effects of crime, and want the scrotes arrested and put away, not somehow to be considered as victims.
BTW, after last week in Italy, this week I'm in Middlesbrough. Swings & roundabouts.
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You familiar with the word unique?Jonathan said:
Your ‘*’. Brilliant stuff.Philip_Thompson said:
How was the argument shot down?Jonathan said:
How to spectacularly shoot your own argument down. Impressive.Philip_Thompson said:
So Brits being European makes the Greek and Germans and Poles etc better than Singaporeans and Chinese. Wow . . .DougSeal said:
We are European. Australians prioritise people from the Australian continent over Europeans so I don’t see why there is a problem with us prioritising our own continent in the same way. You wouldn’t ask an Australian employer to prioritise a Brit over an AustralianPhilip_Thompson said:Why are Europeans so much better than Singaporeans or Chinese in your eyes?
So you are a Trump fanboy? I mean he wants America first and American employers to prioritise Americans - you want Europe first and European employers to prioritise Europeans? What's the difference between you and Trump?
I'd expect the Australian employer to want to get the best candidate they can get for the job. If that's an Australian so be it. If it is not an Australian I would expect Brits to be treated on a level playing field as Australia's nearby neighbours* like Singapore. I wouldn't expect them to put Brits behind 27 of their nearest neighbours just because of geography.
* Not New Zealand. New Zealand and Australia have a unique special relationship, like we do with Ireland.
The UK has a long established and unique relationship with Ireland that predates and supersedes the EU. It will continue post Brexit. They have a similar relationship with New Zealand.
That doesn't expand to 26 other countries.0 -
Swinson has to be seen to be forced into a GNU with JC. She'll move before Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal
I can see that this is a part of the Cummings plan, to put the pressure on the opposition parties either hoping that no-one can agree an alternative government or that they panic an get the extension on the Behalf of Boris. either way is of benefit to the Tories in the impending election.0 -
bigjohnowls said:
Is Swinson thick?bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
Does she seriously think Labour Leave MPs (more than the total LD and Change UK total) Will support any interim PM but Jezza.
PLP Unanimously supported Jezza apparently 18 MPs need to decide do they want to halt No Deal or not
She is actually quite astute why should it be corbyn ? Because he is the least popular loto ever?0 -
I thought calling another poster a "twat" brought down the ban hammer? Or is it a case of It's OK If You're A Remainer?Philip_Thompson said:
We are not reducing the talent pool from 28 to 1 country. We are taking steps to liberalise migration in the right areas to expand the talent pool to 195 countries.Noo said:
You really are a thick twat aren't you?Philip_Thompson said:Define work.
People from across the world still get here so something must be working even if other bits can be improved. If we can stop relying upon the crutch of free movement then we will be better motivated to fix any flaws with our system that impede the creme de la creme from coming.
Its rather bigoted of @Noo to consider [primarily white] Europeans to be the "creme de la creme" we need to be attracting, rather than the creme de la creme of the entire world whether that be Asians, North or South Americans, Africans or indeed Europeans.
At no point did I say that Europeans are the creme de la creme. I said reducing the talent pool of easy hires from 28 to 1 country will be detrimental to attracting the creme de la creme here.
As far as I can tell, the proposals won't change the barriers to those coming from outside the EU, but will significantly increase the barriers for those from within the rest of the EU. That is an increase in the difficulty of hiring.
Meanwhile, other EU countries are not raising their barrier to hiring, which means they will become more competitive in terms of hiring and investment.
It's sad that you had to make a baseless accusation based on what you thought I was saying rather than what I actually said. But I forgive you, because it looks a lot like you were being a cretin rather than being malicious. But you should still apologise.
28 countries do not trump 195 countries. Until you come to me with a reason why we need to discriminate against Singaporeans and Chinese in order to get the world's best people, all I detect from you is racism.0 -
She wont because she knows he cannot cobble together the votes. She wont want the taint of loser on herspudgfsh said:
Swinson has to be seen to be forced into a GNU with JC. She'll move before Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal
I can see that this is a part of the Cummings plan, to put the pressure on the opposition parties either hoping that no-one can agree an alternative government or that they panic an get the extension on the Behalf of Boris. either way is of benefit to the Tories in the impending election.0 -
It won't get to the point where we leave with no-deal. the opposition parties will get the votes. it is just unclear who will move from their current position.dyedwoolie said:
She wont because she knows he cannot cobble together the votes. She wont want the taint of loser on herspudgfsh said:
Swinson has to be seen to be forced into a GNU with JC. She'll move before Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal
I can see that this is a part of the Cummings plan, to put the pressure on the opposition parties either hoping that no-one can agree an alternative government or that they panic an get the extension on the Behalf of Boris. either way is of benefit to the Tories in the impending election.0 -
So when Johnson brings back a deal to the commons, those 55 Leaver MPs will vote for it?bigjohnowls said:
Labour has 55 Leaver MPs they will only support a GONU lead by LOTOMJW said:
This is the kind of contemptible rubbish we've come to expect from the Labour Party under Corbyn. Close isn't good enough. The MPs who would put Corbyn over the top, quite legitimately, refuse to make a man they believe to be an antisemitic crank, Prime Minister.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
Therefore the only option with a chance is a Labour-backed unity PM. If that doesn't happen it's because Labour thought they had a God-given right to force a PM even a lot of people who'd normally be Labour voters (like myself, a member until last year), believe is offensively unfit to become Prime Minister.
The little Parties have to Choose No Deal or Corbyn
I am happy either way TBH
LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal0 -
Nice try. Bravo.Philip_Thompson said:
You familiar with the word unique?Jonathan said:
Your ‘*’. Brilliant stuff.Philip_Thompson said:
How was the argument shot down?Jonathan said:
How to spectacularly shoot your own argument down. Impressive.Philip_Thompson said:
So Brits being European makes the Greek and Germans and Poles etc better than Singaporeans and Chinese. Wow . . .DougSeal said:
We are European. Australians prioritise people from the Australian continent over Europeans so I don’t see why there is a problem with us prioritising our own continent in the same way. You wouldn’t ask an Australian employer to prioritise a Brit over an AustralianPhilip_Thompson said:Why are Europeans so much better than Singaporeans or Chinese in your eyes?
So you are a Trump fanboy? I mean he wants America first and American employers to prioritise Americans - you want Europe first and European employers to prioritise Europeans? What's the difference between you and Trump?
I'd expect the Australian employer to want to get the best candidate they can get for the job. If that's an Australian so be it. If it is not an Australian I would expect Brits to be treated on a level playing field as Australia's nearby neighbours* like Singapore. I wouldn't expect them to put Brits behind 27 of their nearest neighbours just because of geography.
* Not New Zealand. New Zealand and Australia have a unique special relationship, like we do with Ireland.
The UK has a long established and unique relationship with Ireland that predates and supersedes the EU. It will continue post Brexit. They have a similar relationship with New Zealand.
That doesn't expand to 26 other countries.
0 -
Too late she has it in spades alreadydyedwoolie said:
She wont because she knows he cannot cobble together the votes. She wont want the taint of loser on herspudgfsh said:
Swinson has to be seen to be forced into a GNU with JC. She'll move before Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal
I can see that this is a part of the Cummings plan, to put the pressure on the opposition parties either hoping that no-one can agree an alternative government or that they panic an get the extension on the Behalf of Boris. either way is of benefit to the Tories in the impending election.0 -
More scared of lib dems than anything else can’t even attack the tories.bigjohnowls said:
Labour has 55 Leaver MPs they will only support a GONU lead by LOTOMJW said:
This is the kind of contemptible rubbish we've come to expect from the Labour Party under Corbyn. Close isn't good enough. The MPs who would put Corbyn over the top, quite legitimately, refuse to make a man they believe to be an antisemitic crank, Prime Minister.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
Therefore the only option with a chance is a Labour-backed unity PM. If that doesn't happen it's because Labour thought they had a God-given right to force a PM even a lot of people who'd normally be Labour voters (like myself, a member until last year), believe is offensively unfit to become Prime Minister.
The little Parties have to Choose No Deal or Corbyn
I am happy either way TBH
LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal0 -
You are right! The taint of more loser on hermalcolmg said:
Too late she has it in spades alreadydyedwoolie said:
She wont because she knows he cannot cobble together the votes. She wont want the taint of loser on herspudgfsh said:
Swinson has to be seen to be forced into a GNU with JC. She'll move before Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal
I can see that this is a part of the Cummings plan, to put the pressure on the opposition parties either hoping that no-one can agree an alternative government or that they panic an get the extension on the Behalf of Boris. either way is of benefit to the Tories in the impending election.0 -
Wasn’t he being sarcastic??Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear, are you not concerned you might be slightly jumping the gun here? Or have CCO flooded PB with HYUFD clone Bozo fan-boys?Mexicanpete said:
Totally unneccesary now Boris has all but got his deal. Boris has said all along that the EU would fold at the 11th hour if he played hardball. I thought his brinkmanship would end in tears, looks like we doubters were wrong.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-498915000 -
Yeah, they wont if its Corbyn.spudgfsh said:
It won't get to the point where we leave with no-deal. the opposition parties will get the votes. it is just unclear who will move from their current position.dyedwoolie said:
She wont because she knows he cannot cobble together the votes. She wont want the taint of loser on herspudgfsh said:
Swinson has to be seen to be forced into a GNU with JC. She'll move before Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal
I can see that this is a part of the Cummings plan, to put the pressure on the opposition parties either hoping that no-one can agree an alternative government or that they panic an get the extension on the Behalf of Boris. either way is of benefit to the Tories in the impending election.0 -
If the EU are prepared to consider a 7 years maximum for the backstop, it does rather fatally undermine the notion that it is a for all-time insurance policy....
Come on guys, agree 5 years. We can live with 5 years. We've already had well over three years of dicking about. But No More Extensions.
Then we can get the Boris Deal or No Deal decision by Westminster before october 31st. Which is Boris's Deal - or the place really is chock full of mental hypocrites.
That of course is how I've been saying this would play out for weeks, to much mockery on here. Clearly nobody has read the lead story in today's Times.
I can wait for the apologies.....0 -
There will be no deal in the next 2 weeksNo_Offence_Alan said:
So when Johnson brings back a deal to the commons, those 55 Leaver MPs will vote for it?bigjohnowls said:
Labour has 55 Leaver MPs they will only support a GONU lead by LOTOMJW said:
This is the kind of contemptible rubbish we've come to expect from the Labour Party under Corbyn. Close isn't good enough. The MPs who would put Corbyn over the top, quite legitimately, refuse to make a man they believe to be an antisemitic crank, Prime Minister.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
Therefore the only option with a chance is a Labour-backed unity PM. If that doesn't happen it's because Labour thought they had a God-given right to force a PM even a lot of people who'd normally be Labour voters (like myself, a member until last year), believe is offensively unfit to become Prime Minister.
The little Parties have to Choose No Deal or Corbyn
I am happy either way TBH
LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal
They've not said it but the EU clearly think that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' and they will not budge on the Backstop. They may say that a deal can be done with alternative arrangements but those alternative arrangement will be exactly the same as the current backstop, just in a different font (and possibly a different word order).0 -
How to spectacularly shoot your own argument down. Impressive.Philip_Thompson said:
How was the argument shot down?Jonathan said:
How to spectacularly shoot your own argument down. Impressive.Philip_Thompson said:
So Brits being European makes the Greek and Germans and Poles etc better than Singaporeans and Chinese. Wow . . .DougSeal said:
We are European. Australians prioritise people from the Australian continent over Europeans so I don’t see why there is a problem with us prioritising our own continent in the same way. You wouldn’t ask an Australian employer to prioritise a Brit over an AustralianPhilip_Thompson said:Why are Europeans so much better than Singaporeans or Chinese in your eyes?
So you are a Trump fanboy? I mean he wants America first and American employers to prioritise Americans - you want Europe first and European employers to prioritise Europeans? What's the difference between you and Trump?
I'd expect the Australian employer to want to get the best candidate they can get for the job. If that's an Australian so be it. If it is not an Australian I would expect Brits to be treated on a level playing field as Australia's nearby neighbours* like Singapore. I wouldn't expect them to put Brits behind 27 of their nearest neighbours just because of geography.
* Not New Zealand. New Zealand and Australia have a unique special relationship, like we do with Ireland.
Mr Thompson,
The points based system you relentlessly advocate discriminates against non-British people because the number of points needed is determined by the level of need for certain occupations in this country. Google “Resident labour market test”. The points threshold is lowered if there are fewer British workers available. Same in Australia. So your preferred solution, and that if your party, favours British workers. I know because I work in immigration law.
Secondly you say we should prioritise Ireland because we have a close relationship with it. Why? They appear to value their relationship with the EU more. Why should we prioritise that specific EU state? Because we conquered and oppressed it for many years? Guilt? Our language is Germanic, not Celtic, why prioretiae Ireland over Germany? A little racist don’t you think?
Finally, you are a young naive man so I will forgive you this once. But you should not call a man racist without any knowledge of him or his own again.1 -
"Farce" nails it.TGOHF2 said:So Germany and France offered 7 years and the Commission knows nothing about it - farce..
No such "offer" has been made or could be made.
Any such "offer" from the UK side would be plainly rejected, unless maybe (MAYBE) if comprising the option of perpetuation, conditional to NI referendum, but even that would be heavily contested in EU circles.0 -
Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.0 -
Has anyone offered any time limit? I suspect it's fake news.MarqueeMark said:If the EU are prepared to consider a 7 years maximum for the backstop, it does rather fatally undermine the notion that it is a for all-time insurance policy....
Come on guys, agree 5 years. We can live with 5 years. We've already had well over three years of dicking about. But No More Extensions.
Then we can get the Boris Deal or No Deal decision by Westminster before october 31st. Which is Boris's Deal - or the place really is chock full of mental hypocrites.
That of course is how I've been saying this would play out for weeks, to much mockery on here. Clearly nobody has read the lead story in today's Times.
I can wait for the apologies.....0 -
Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal0 -
#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click0 -
You might need some time for that. This is from Bloomberg:MarqueeMark said:If the EU are prepared to consider a 7 years maximum for the backstop, it does rather fatally undermine the notion that it is a for all-time insurance policy....
Come on guys, agree 5 years. We can live with 5 years. We've already had well over three years of dicking about. But No More Extensions.
Then we can get the Boris Deal or No Deal decision by Westminster before october 31st. Which is Boris's Deal - or the place really is chock full of mental hypocrites.
That of course is how I've been saying this would play out for weeks, to much mockery on here. Clearly nobody has read the lead story in today's Times.
I can wait for the apologies.....
“The EU is not considering this option at all,” a European Commission spokesman said. “We are waiting for the U.K. to come forward with a legally operational solution that meets all the objectives of the backstop.”
A time limited backstop is being considered the same way that I am considering snacking up with Shami...0 -
Well, that's because she is. In common with most MPs.Yorkcity said:
Yes she will find it hard not to be called a hypocrite.MarqueeMark said:
But surely even Diane Abbott can't fuck this up? Losing to Raab would not merely be embarrassing it would be career ending.0 -
An organized disgraceful slur by people who are more scared of the lib dems than the Tory’s I s a shame they haven’t got a few doors to knock onAnorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click
0 -
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
Show me your MathsAnorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click
Show me how with 18 LDs on Board for Jezza Johnson no deal wins!
Go on i dare you0 -
This is being negotiated at head-of-date level. The Commission has been shown to have fucked up.Foxy said:
You might need some time for that. This is from Bloomberg:MarqueeMark said:If the EU are prepared to consider a 7 years maximum for the backstop, it does rather fatally undermine the notion that it is a for all-time insurance policy....
Come on guys, agree 5 years. We can live with 5 years. We've already had well over three years of dicking about. But No More Extensions.
Then we can get the Boris Deal or No Deal decision by Westminster before october 31st. Which is Boris's Deal - or the place really is chock full of mental hypocrites.
That of course is how I've been saying this would play out for weeks, to much mockery on here. Clearly nobody has read the lead story in today's Times.
I can wait for the apologies.....
“The EU is not considering this option at all,” a European Commission spokesman said. “We are waiting for the U.K. to come forward with a legally operational solution that meets all the objectives of the backstop.”
A time limited backstop is being considered the same way that I am considering snacking up with Shami...0 -
Well, be fair. A basic understanding of maths makes it very difficult to support Corbyn.Anorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click0 -
Show me how 35 Independents, the majority of whom are ex Tories and some of whom still appear to be party members, back Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:
Show me your MathsAnorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click
Show me how with 18 LDs on Board for Jezza Johnson no deal wins!
Go on i dare you0 -
So which of the 35 independent MPs have pledged their support to corbyn? If corbyn won’t back down its corbyn who has failed, he doesn’t even have 246 somstopbigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
Spinning0 -
She is more Tory than most Tories though, to the right of Genghis Khan.Anorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click0 -
They're not independents though, they're Liberal Democrats.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
And 286 + 18 is not 306.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
Tories arent saying #BolloxtoBrexit but Sabotaging an extension and 2nd Referendumnichomar said:
More scared of lib dems than anything else can’t even attack the tories.bigjohnowls said:
Labour has 55 Leaver MPs they will only support a GONU lead by LOTOMJW said:
This is the kind of contemptible rubbish we've come to expect from the Labour Party under Corbyn. Close isn't good enough. The MPs who would put Corbyn over the top, quite legitimately, refuse to make a man they believe to be an antisemitic crank, Prime Minister.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
Therefore the only option with a chance is a Labour-backed unity PM. If that doesn't happen it's because Labour thought they had a God-given right to force a PM even a lot of people who'd normally be Labour voters (like myself, a member until last year), believe is offensively unfit to become Prime Minister.
The little Parties have to Choose No Deal or Corbyn
I am happy either way TBH
LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal0 -
It also fails to take into account that, as a slogan, it might actually attract a lot of Tory Remainers and floaters to the LDsnichomar said:
An organized disgraceful slur by people who are more scared of the lib dems than the Tory’s I s a shame they haven’t got a few doors to knock onAnorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click0 -
But do they have to? how many MPs will abstain? and how many would need to to allow it to happen?dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
I know, I am making the point about them after the point about indies.ydoethur said:
They're not independents though, they're Liberal Democrats.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
Even in the unlikely event Swinson backs Corbyn, chuka and luciana will not follow the whip, nor will Angela Smith for that matter0 -
So when you were previously confident there'd be a deal, you were expecting parliament to stand behind Boris?Philip_Thompson said:
50-50. Parliament are doing their best to make one impossible.Stereotomy said:
Still expecting a deal then?Philip_Thompson said:Johnson is doing in his negotiations exactly what May should have done all along. Shame that it has taken this long to get here.
If the EU want to insist no deal is better than a permanent backstop it is entirely appropriate and reasonable to discuss where the customs posts the EU are demanding are put. Because that is logically what they are insisting if they continue to demand the backstop unicorn we will never give.
Suddenly a time limited backstop doesn't seem such a bad idea.
Johnson is turning the tables on their nonsense and moving the Overton Window. Good for him!
If Parliament stood behind our PM not against him then yes definitely.0 -
A beautifully written article by Rafael Behr, who is always worth reading:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/01/boris-johnson-eu-prime-minister-brexit
While Downing Street is thinking about clap lines for a speech, the EU wants legal guarantees that can withstand future changes in the political weather. The two sides are not operating to the same time horizon. Both say they want a deal, but Johnson means a headline to get through the week; Brussels means a treaty to secure the integrity of the European project for a generation.
The whole article is insightful.
1 -
MarqueeMark said:
If the EU are prepared to consider a 7 years maximum for the backstop, it does rather fatally undermine the notion that it is a for all-time insurance policy....
Come on guys, agree 5 years. We can live with 5 years. We've already had well over three years of dicking about. But No More Extensions.
Then we can get the Boris Deal or No Deal decision by Westminster before october 31st. Which is Boris's Deal - or the place really is chock full of mental hypocrites.
That of course is how I've been saying this would play out for weeks, to much mockery on here. Clearly nobody has read the lead story in today's Times.
I can wait for the apologies.....
It never was it was always in the view of leavers as a trick to tie us in, if the U.K. government really believed technology could solve the NI issue the the backstop shouldn’t have been a problem. It’s just cover for the Spartans who will always want more0 -
not far off though , what is two out between friendsTudorRose said:
And 286 + 18 is not 306.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
Dunno - did she struggle to get 2 Es like St. Jeremy the Unreading?bigjohnowls said:
Is Swinson thick?bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
0 -
The only place left for them after that is the Greensdyedwoolie said:
I know, I am making the point about them after the point about indies.ydoethur said:
They're not independents though, they're Liberal Democrats.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
Even in the unlikely event Swinson backs Corbyn, chuka and luciana will not follow the whip, nor will Angela Smith for that matter0 -
By my reckoning Corbyn is at best 2 ahead before the indies come into play. Of them, only OMara, Rent Boy Vaz, Williamson and Hopkins are likely to back him, about 8 will oppose and the ex Tories will abstain or vote againstspudgfsh said:
But do they have to? how many MPs will abstain? and how many would need to to allow it to happen?dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
Jezza's putting his foot down! As we all knew he would.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
The Lib Dems have, meanwhile, said they will not back an interim government headed by Mr Corbyn, with leader Jo Swinson saying the Labour leader had to make clear who else he would support to temporarily take charge.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
0 -
SDPmalcolmg said:
The only place left for them after that is the Greensdyedwoolie said:
I know, I am making the point about them after the point about indies.ydoethur said:
They're not independents though, they're Liberal Democrats.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
Even in the unlikely event Swinson backs Corbyn, chuka and luciana will not follow the whip, nor will Angela Smith for that matter 0 -
It appears the "Remainer Alliance" is maintaining its 100% record of knowing what it is against, but not what it is in favour of.GIN1138 said:
Jezza's putting his foot down! As we all knew he would.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
The Lib Dems have, meanwhile, said they will not back an interim government headed by Mr Corbyn, with leader Jo Swinson saying the Labour leader had to make clear who else he would support to temporarily take charge.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-498915000 -
Have asked for proof that the lib dem 18 votes makes the difference, when you do you may have a point.bigjohnowls said:
Tories arent saying #BolloxtoBrexit but Sabotaging an extension and 2nd Referendumnichomar said:
More scared of lib dems than anything else can’t even attack the tories.bigjohnowls said:
Labour has 55 Leaver MPs they will only support a GONU lead by LOTOMJW said:
This is the kind of contemptible rubbish we've come to expect from the Labour Party under Corbyn. Close isn't good enough. The MPs who would put Corbyn over the top, quite legitimately, refuse to make a man they believe to be an antisemitic crank, Prime Minister.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn option is only option that gets close.AndyJS said:
And the LDs have rejected a Corbyn-led government. So that means both options are off the table.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49891500
Swinson option about 300 short #bolloxtostoppingnodeal
Therefore the only option with a chance is a Labour-backed unity PM. If that doesn't happen it's because Labour thought they had a God-given right to force a PM even a lot of people who'd normally be Labour voters (like myself, a member until last year), believe is offensively unfit to become Prime Minister.
The little Parties have to Choose No Deal or Corbyn
I am happy either way TBH
LDs we did our best just wont wash with Remainers if this pans out how i expect and we Leave with No Deal0 -
malcolmg said:
She is more Tory than most Tories though, to the right of Genghis Khan.Anorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click
An overdose of turnip juice I think0 -
Oh so you mean Tory Swinson cant control her own party on stopping BREXIT.TudorRose said:
And 286 + 18 is not 306.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
You are correct about Mann and Hoey so i accept the 304 starting point is 302. Berger and Chukka are supposed to be in the Tory Swinson team now. Some Tory rebels have already committed to a Corbyn GONU if it is the only option to stop No Deal so i think realistically should be up to 310ish then the 5 Change Uk ers are crucial unless SF take their seats.
Who else are you suggesting can get over 1000 -
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
They do what they always do, lock up the medal winners and insist on everything being decided by those with certificates of participationhumbugger said:
It appears the "Remainer Alliance" is maintaining its 100% record of knowing what it is against, but not what it is in favour of.GIN1138 said:
Jezza's putting his foot down! As we all knew he would.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour has rejected the idea of a "government of national unity" - headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett - to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government - formed after the removal of Boris Johnson - must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn.
The Lib Dems have, meanwhile, said they will not back an interim government headed by Mr Corbyn, with leader Jo Swinson saying the Labour leader had to make clear who else he would support to temporarily take charge.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-498915000 -
Meanwhile, those nice collegiate Labour people are having a comradely discussion about choosing a mayoral candidate for the West Midlands:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/01/metro-mayor-selection-process-hit-by-row-over-prospective-candidate
0 -
Iain Duncan Smith is perhaps a bad example, given he's also mixed race.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
Is Mann still allowed to vote now he is a Lord ?bigjohnowls said:
Oh so you mean Tory Swinson cant control her own party on stopping BREXIT.TudorRose said:
And 286 + 18 is not 306.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
You are correct about Mann and Hoey so i accept the 304 starting point is 302. Berger and Chukka are supposed to be in the Tory Swinson team now. Some Tory rebels have already committed to a Corbyn GONU if it is the only option to stop No Deal so i think realistically should be up to 310ish then the 5 Change Uk ers are crucial unless SF take their seats.
Who else are you suggesting can get over 1000 -
Really . I had no idea .ydoethur said:
Iain Duncan Smith is perhaps a bad example, given he's also mixed race.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
He represents labour leave and I have asked for proof that with the Lib Dems he can get a majority, if there was Swinson would support it if it was a last resort. The reality is as long as Johnson can’t bypass the benn act then all they need to do is VONC on 1/11. Which corbyn is totally and utterly shit scared of and I would not surprised if he bottled itydoethur said:
Show me how 35 Independents, the majority of whom are ex Tories and some of whom still appear to be party members, back Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:
Show me your MathsAnorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click
Show me how with 18 LDs on Board for Jezza Johnson no deal wins!
Go on i dare you0 -
Thats just not true some Ex Tories including Ken have said Jezza as last resort. Abstentions are probably OKdyedwoolie said:
By my reckoning Corbyn is at best 2 ahead before the indies come into play. Of them, only OMara, Rent Boy Vaz, Williamson and Hopkins are likely to back him, about 8 will oppose and the ex Tories will abstain or vote againstspudgfsh said:
But do they have to? how many MPs will abstain? and how many would need to to allow it to happen?dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
Anna Soubry says Corbyn never but on 29/10/19 will she be the vote that enables No Deal0 -
His great grandmother was Japanese.nico67 said:
Really . I had no idea .ydoethur said:
Iain Duncan Smith is perhaps a bad example, given he's also mixed race.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
So you want to deport people you disagree with? I’m not sure how that is any better.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
No-one with any sense could have misconstrued it , it is just the snowflakes always looking for offence where there is none. It was perfectly clear to me what you meant and how anyone could have thought otherwise is bollox. Too many weak mealy mouthed arses always ready to shout racist because of their insecurities and prejudices it is pathetic.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
Hes not in yetPaulM said:
Is Mann still allowed to vote now he is a Lord ?bigjohnowls said:
Oh so you mean Tory Swinson cant control her own party on stopping BREXIT.TudorRose said:
And 286 + 18 is not 306.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
You are correct about Mann and Hoey so i accept the 304 starting point is 302. Berger and Chukka are supposed to be in the Tory Swinson team now. Some Tory rebels have already committed to a Corbyn GONU if it is the only option to stop No Deal so i think realistically should be up to 310ish then the 5 Change Uk ers are crucial unless SF take their seats.
Who else are you suggesting can get over 1000 -
The Eastbourne ex LD might support Corbyn.dyedwoolie said:
By my reckoning Corbyn is at best 2 ahead before the indies come into play. Of them, only OMara, Rent Boy Vaz, Williamson and Hopkins are likely to back him, about 8 will oppose and the ex Tories will abstain or vote againstspudgfsh said:
But do they have to? how many MPs will abstain? and how many would need to to allow it to happen?dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
You think Corbyn has the 246 Labour MPs in the bag? Interesting ...bigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal0 -
I think of my self as a political junkie but you’ve got me there !ydoethur said:
His great grandmother was Japanese.nico67 said:
Really . I had no idea .ydoethur said:
Iain Duncan Smith is perhaps a bad example, given he's also mixed race.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
Perhaps but we will see , she is a loser for sure.nichomar said:malcolmg said:
She is more Tory than most Tories though, to the right of Genghis Khan.Anorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click
An overdose of turnip juice I think0 -
The one who resigned the whip to vote for Brexit?justin124 said:
The Eastbourne ex LD might support Corbyn.dyedwoolie said:
By my reckoning Corbyn is at best 2 ahead before the indies come into play. Of them, only OMara, Rent Boy Vaz, Williamson and Hopkins are likely to back him, about 8 will oppose and the ex Tories will abstain or vote againstspudgfsh said:
But do they have to? how many MPs will abstain? and how many would need to to allow it to happen?dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
At that point if the benn act is implemented there is no need for a corbyn government we just move on to an election.bigjohnowls said:
Thats just not true some Ex Tories including Ken have said Jezza as last resort. Abstentions are probably OKdyedwoolie said:
By my reckoning Corbyn is at best 2 ahead before the indies come into play. Of them, only OMara, Rent Boy Vaz, Williamson and Hopkins are likely to back him, about 8 will oppose and the ex Tories will abstain or vote againstspudgfsh said:
But do they have to? how many MPs will abstain? and how many would need to to allow it to happen?dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
Anna Soubry says Corbyn never but on 29/10/19 will she be the vote that enables No Deal0 -
I doubt it. He's an honourable and quite a sensible chap.justin124 said:
The Eastbourne ex LD might support Corbyn.0 -
You see what's happening, though - we are falling out over this, making BOTH Lab->Lib and Lib->Lab tactical voting less likely. There is only one beneficiary from that, and it isn't either of our parties. That's why Jo should eventually say "OK, we'll vote for it, let's see if you've got the numbers". But I agree that it needs to happen after Oct 17 - for now, I suggest both parties hold fire.nichomar said:
An organized disgraceful slur by people who are more scared of the lib dems than the Tory’s I s a shame they haven’t got a few doors to knock onAnorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click0 -
You really are a fucking idiot.Philip_Thompson said:
I won't apologise for calling you out on your bigotry. You look down your nose and want to discriminate against 167 countries and their citizens.Noo said:You need to apologise for calling me a bigot.
You are attacking straw men:
"while keeping tight restrictions on Africans, Asians, North and South Americans", "restricting Singaporeans, Chinese". I've said nothing of the sort.
I've said the increase in barriers is detrimental. Indeed, if Patel were proposing something like Trump's "Muslim ban", stopping immigration wholesale from certain countries, that would be objectionable.
We should be working in the opposite direction, making it easier for people to move around for work. Not harder.
As it happens, I think that the focus should be on making it easier for the rest of the world. But making it harder for Europeans under the banner of equality is rather like saying we should seize the homes of the wealthy and give them to the homeless. Yes, it's "fairer" in a weird way, but it's also breathtakingly missing the point and enormously stupid.
You, too, are breathtakingly missing the point and enormously stupid.
You went off on a rant about what you imagined I believed, and you got it wrong. I regret that you didn't stop to take the time to think about how much your mind was contributing to what you thought I was saying rather than just reading what I said, but it's ok because you've only embarrassed yourself. Again. I will accept your apology, if you're man enough to offer it.
Patel has proposed lowering barriers on those seeking work in academia etc across the globe, while ending free movement from just 27 [primarily white] European nations. You react with horror at this proposal. That is bigotry. Making it easier for the world's best to get academic roles etc is not going to make our universities worse like you claim.
Until you address the fact that there are 195 countries not 28 in this small world of ours, I have no apologies for someone so small minded as to think only 28 matter.0 -
I’m late to the thread so this may have been done already but @AlastairMeeks argument is fundamentally flawed
The two ideas are not mutually contradictory
1. “The result will be implemented”
Hobbes argues that Parliament (technically the Sovereign) does not exist in a vacuum, but that it derives its authority from the people.
In stating that the result will be implemented, politicians are acknowledging that authority. It’s nothing to do with the “legal form” or looking beyond it
2. “The wording is clear”
Again @AlastairMeeks misunderstands the role of the Executive. The people gave an in principle instruction: to leave.
The precise details of that are up to the Executive and Parliament to determine (it should be up to the Executive to determine and MPs to hold them accountable but the Usurper Parliament has decided otherwise)
At the next election individual MPs will be held to account for their actions by their local electors.
So these two positions are entirely - and easily - reconcilable. If it hadn’t been for Parliament attempting to expand its role to frustrate Brexit then our constitution would be working fine.1 -
He is as vile if not worse than Patel more like.ydoethur said:
Iain Duncan Smith is perhaps a bad example, given he's also mixed race.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
As he resigned as he feels Brexit must be delivered and promised his electors I have him as abstainingjustin124 said:
The Eastbourne ex LD might support Corbyn.dyedwoolie said:
By my reckoning Corbyn is at best 2 ahead before the indies come into play. Of them, only OMara, Rent Boy Vaz, Williamson and Hopkins are likely to back him, about 8 will oppose and the ex Tories will abstain or vote againstspudgfsh said:
But do they have to? how many MPs will abstain? and how many would need to to allow it to happen?dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.0 -
So Swinson cant control her party.dyedwoolie said:
I know, I am making the point about them after the point about indies.ydoethur said:
They're not independents though, they're Liberal Democrats.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
Even in the unlikely event Swinson backs Corbyn, chuka and luciana will not follow the whip, nor will Angela Smith for that matter
Kick em out!! They need the LDs emblem to have any chance of a seat The LDs need to be seen to be doing EVERYTHING to stop No Deal0 -
PaulM said:
Is Mann still allowed to vote now he is a Lord ?bigjohnowls said:
Oh so you mean Tory Swinson cant control her own party on stopping BREXIT.TudorRose said:
And 286 + 18 is not 306.dyedwoolie said:
Take John mann and Kate Hoey off the Corbyn slate and add to the Tory slatebigjohnowls said:Party Seats
Conservative 288
Labour 246
Independent 35
Scottish National Party 35
Liberal Democrat 18
Democratic Unionist Party 10
Sinn Féin 7
The Independent Group for Change 5
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1
Speaker 1
So as of today JEZZA supposedly has 246+35+4+1 in the bag (286) Boris 288+ 10 (298) max at this stage
So if the LD 18 get on board that makes it 298 for No Deal and 306 for Extension On 29th October (last chance saloon) No Deal is stopped) unless Ken Dominic and CHANGE UK lot decide at the last hour to back No Deal
The independents break against Corbyn. Luciaba Berger and Chuka will under no circumstances back Corbyn.
You are correct about Mann and Hoey so i accept the 304 starting point is 302. Berger and Chukka are supposed to be in the Tory Swinson team now. Some Tory rebels have already committed to a Corbyn GONU if it is the only option to stop No Deal so i think realistically should be up to 310ish then the 5 Change Uk ers are crucial unless SF take their seats.
Who else are you suggesting can get over 100
Not yet said he would wait till after GE but would not attend commons0 -
Well, I'm not disagreeing with that Malc as it seems sound common sense, but I was only suggesting that in a row about alleged racism perhaps he wasn't the best example to talk about deportations not commenting on his moral character.malcolmg said:
He is as vile if not worse than Patel more like.ydoethur said:
Iain Duncan Smith is perhaps a bad example, given he's also mixed race.nico67 said:
My comments were taken the wrong way . My point was I detest Patel and basically it would be great if she left the country, if she hadn’t been Home Secretary I wouldn’t have mentioned deportation as it’s not something in relation to her job . If say Patel’s job was taken by IDS I would have said I hope he deports himself merely to highlight I think the country would be a better place with him out of it .humbugger said:Good evening all.
Interesting exchange downthread regarding nico67's comments about Priti Patel and the subsequent accusations the comments were racist. I've no idea whether nico67 is racist or not (I hope not), but the exchange illustrated how easy it is to be a little clumsy with words thereby exposing oneself to allegations of an ism of some sort. Twitter is of course full of such examples.
It's also the case that malicious allegations of any sort can be very difficult to disprove, especially in the short term. Witness those against Leon Brittain. Men in particular are most vulnerable to such allegations.
Anyway just thought I’d clear that up , I can understand some might have misconstrued my comments.0 -
I love that. How about Labour saying 'OK, Corbyn is a bit of a problem, this is a cross-party initiative so let's go for a compromise candidate'. I mean, I realise that that might have to be Margaret Beckett, who as we know is practically a Tory, but needs must, eh?NickPalmer said:
You see what's happening, though - we are falling out over this, making BOTH Lab->Lib and Lib->Lab tactical voting less likely. There is only one beneficiary from that, and it isn't either of our parties. That's why Jo should eventually say "OK, we'll vote for it, let's see if you've got the numbers". But I agree that it needs to happen after Oct 17 - for now, I suggest both parties hold fire.nichomar said:
An organized disgraceful slur by people who are more scared of the lib dems than the Tory’s I s a shame they haven’t got a few doors to knock onAnorak said:#JoSwinsonIsATory is trending. There are a *lot* of utter morons out there who understand neither convention, law, or simple maths.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#JoSwinsonIsATory&src=trend_click0
