politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Devastating defeat for Boris Johnson – and perhaps Brexit
Comments
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I suspect not much will happen. Perhaps more tributes to Bercow?TheValiant said:
It's a very good point. Parliament will return tomorrow and do what?CD13 said:I still ask why Parliament is sitting. It has no intention of doing anything constructive. Amber Rudd speaks of doing something to break the logjam yet has no clear idea what.
What bill will be passed? Or even debated? The backbenchers will merely talk and big themselves up and at the same time hide from the electorate. They don't want any sort of Brexit and they fear a general election. They even fear a VONC.
This is a democracy? Really?
Unless the Leader of the Opposition is prepared to VoNC and try and take control themselves, there is little point to Parliament sitting anyway.
The current LotO is not up to the job, by a VERY VERY long way, and so far, excepting some remarks by Ken Clarke, there seems to be no other opposition leader a majority would get behind.
We need an election, just to sort out Parliament, let alone Brexit (we may need a 2nd Ref for that - we probably need both).0 -
https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
The future prime minister's wife/husband.Roger said:
As my US producer just said "Who do you have to f*ck to be made Prime Minister of England these days?"AlastairMeeks said:
It will, on terrain of its choosing. Not at the chosen timing of an unelected Prime Minister that has never won a vote.basicbridge said:If the anti-Brexit campaign is so sure of its ground, why wont it fight an election?
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I believe its spelt either way. *ahem* some software I use actually has a checkbox - "How do you want to spell 'Judg(e)ment' and gives you a choice.Drutt said:You can pinpoint the moment when the case was decided. It was when Pannick was submitting in his opening about the PM's motives. Lady Hale stopped him and said 'is this about the motives or the effect' and from then on Pannick was always talking about 'motive or effect' of holding up Parliamentary scrutiny.
I'm paraphrasing, obviously, bit that was a soft signal from the bench that the ratio would be effect, not motive.
Pannick's written submissions were a bit light on this, just adding the words "and whatever the motive" in para 23.
Anyway, what I most want to say today is STOP PUTTING AN 'E' IN THE MIDDLE OF JUDGMENT0 -
Don't you mean that cowardly Corbyn, who has been whining about an election for two years, has no leg to stand on in refusing one now?TheJezziah said:
The Conservatives have been refusing another election ever since the 2017 election, then for a few weeks they have decided it was in their favour to have an election.AlastairMeeks said:
It will, on terrain of its choosing. Not at the chosen timing of an unelected Prime Minister that has never won a vote.basicbridge said:If the anti-Brexit campaign is so sure of its ground, why wont it fight an election?
Why should everyone jump when the Conservatives want an election if they don't when the shoe is on the other foot, for a far longer period as well.
I think we should have one after we get an extension but Conservatives whining about it have very little ground to stand on.1 -
I'm hoping they hold some tributes back for the 20 part BBC series on the life and times of JBRobD said:
I suspect not much will happen. Perhaps more tributes to Bercow?TheValiant said:
It's a very good point. Parliament will return tomorrow and do what?CD13 said:I still ask why Parliament is sitting. It has no intention of doing anything constructive. Amber Rudd speaks of doing something to break the logjam yet has no clear idea what.
What bill will be passed? Or even debated? The backbenchers will merely talk and big themselves up and at the same time hide from the electorate. They don't want any sort of Brexit and they fear a general election. They even fear a VONC.
This is a democracy? Really?
Unless the Leader of the Opposition is prepared to VoNC and try and take control themselves, there is little point to Parliament sitting anyway.
The current LotO is not up to the job, by a VERY VERY long way, and so far, excepting some remarks by Ken Clarke, there seems to be no other opposition leader a majority would get behind.
We need an election, just to sort out Parliament, let alone Brexit (we may need a 2nd Ref for that - we probably need both).0 -
I think it is an open secret that the Chief Whip has told the 21 that if they vote with the Government on the Queen's Speech and explicit confidence votes they'll get the whip back.dyedwoolie said:Interesting slip of the tongue in Rudds interview. Nothing concrete but she sounded like she was about to talk about some or all of the '21' being back under the whip and corrected herself and just said she hoped no 10 would see the sense of consensus and cooperation etc.
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Trade BillRobD said:
I suspect not much will happen. Perhaps more tributes to Bercow?TheValiant said:
It's a very good point. Parliament will return tomorrow and do what?CD13 said:I still ask why Parliament is sitting. It has no intention of doing anything constructive. Amber Rudd speaks of doing something to break the logjam yet has no clear idea what.
What bill will be passed? Or even debated? The backbenchers will merely talk and big themselves up and at the same time hide from the electorate. They don't want any sort of Brexit and they fear a general election. They even fear a VONC.
This is a democracy? Really?
Unless the Leader of the Opposition is prepared to VoNC and try and take control themselves, there is little point to Parliament sitting anyway.
The current LotO is not up to the job, by a VERY VERY long way, and so far, excepting some remarks by Ken Clarke, there seems to be no other opposition leader a majority would get behind.
We need an election, just to sort out Parliament, let alone Brexit (we may need a 2nd Ref for that - we probably need both).
Fisheries Bill
Animal Cruelty
Divorce law
Domestic Abuse
These bills were in progress before the prorogation. They need to be worked on.0 -
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One hopes they will tell them to stick the whip where the sun don't shine.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think it is an open secret that the Chief Whip has told the 21 that if they vote with the Government on the Queen's Speech and explicit confidence votes they'll get the whip back.dyedwoolie said:Interesting slip of the tongue in Rudds interview. Nothing concrete but she sounded like she was about to talk about some or all of the '21' being back under the whip and corrected herself and just said she hoped no 10 would see the sense of consensus and cooperation etc.
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They can hitch a ride on the Thomas Cook relief runScott_P said:https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.0 -
Fair enough. I agree. Indeed I said previously that the practical consequences of this ruling weren’t enormous, at all.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, I agree it shows things are going their way, thanks to the disastrous missteps of Boris. But the practical effect of this particular case isn't that significant (as @RobD has just pointed out), and the circus will move on. I was describing how Boris can minimise the damage.Byronic said:
Is this satire?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, if Boris has any sense he will tone the rhetotic, instruct the @HYUFDs of this world to cut out the garbage about Quisling Remainiac judges, accept the result of the case with good grace, and re-prorogue parliament legally for a few days over the Tory conference period. He can then have his shiny new session and his flagship Queen's Speech to flesh out his Conference promises.Pulpstar said:The judgement specifically makes reference to 4-6 days. That's why I (And Steve Baker) are quoting this as a route for the Gov't to a QS.
If he does this, this whole constitutional crisis and embarrassment will soon be forgotten except by lawyers.
Remainers have defeated Boris and Brexit in the Supreme Court. The war is far from over but this battle shows things are definitely going the Remainers’ way.
This will be remembered the same way El Alamein was remembered after WW2.
But politics is more than practicalities. It’s mood and emotion and psychology as well. And this judgment is hugely important for the psychology of Brexit, or not-Brexit (much more likely now)
eg Remainer MPs (most of them?) can now sense a clear way - indeed several ways - to total victory, and a new referendum, and Remain. This means they will be even less likely to vote for any new deal, in the unlikely event that Boris secures one. Likewise the E.U. can now see a route to reversing Brexit, so they won’t be minded to give Boris a better deal, either.
The £ should be doing better than it is. Maybe forex dealers haven’t realized how much Remain has just gained in probability.0 -
There's also the Financial Services (Implementation of Legislation) Bill that has kept me up for months.noneoftheabove said:
Trade BillRobD said:
I suspect not much will happen. Perhaps more tributes to Bercow?TheValiant said:
It's a very good point. Parliament will return tomorrow and do what?CD13 said:I still ask why Parliament is sitting. It has no intention of doing anything constructive. Amber Rudd speaks of doing something to break the logjam yet has no clear idea what.
What bill will be passed? Or even debated? The backbenchers will merely talk and big themselves up and at the same time hide from the electorate. They don't want any sort of Brexit and they fear a general election. They even fear a VONC.
This is a democracy? Really?
Unless the Leader of the Opposition is prepared to VoNC and try and take control themselves, there is little point to Parliament sitting anyway.
The current LotO is not up to the job, by a VERY VERY long way, and so far, excepting some remarks by Ken Clarke, there seems to be no other opposition leader a majority would get behind.
We need an election, just to sort out Parliament, let alone Brexit (we may need a 2nd Ref for that - we probably need both).
Fisheries Bill
Animal Cruelty
Divorce law
Domestic Abuse
These bills were in progress before the prorogation. They need to be worked on.
God, I might actually have to start earning my salary again.0 -
One line FTPA amendment bill with the '21' able to stand as Tory candidates if they vote for and a deal done with a handful of the indies?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
2 of our 3 highest GE turnouts in the postwar period were Feb elections. I can see voting fatigue being more of an issue than weather.noneoftheabove said:
Who would benefit from waiting out the weather?RochdalePioneers said:Johnson acted illegally to improperly prorogue parliament. Parliament wants to keep sitting through Halloween to ensure No Deal is averted. So I would expect an emergency debate on a motion that the PM be found in Contempt of Parliament. That paves the way to an emergency government.
They Will Not call an election until All Souls Day at the earliest. Which means a December election. WHich nobody wants. So it'll slip into 2020, and if you're waiting out the weather that surely means late April or May
Obviously the most committed vote will hold up - which is the Brexiteers
But rural and elderly vote may be harder to get out - which is the Brexiteers
Instinctively very bad weather could be good for remain, seasonably normal winter weather good for leave?0 -
I don't get this "don't agree with the ruling". It sound's like a teenager who cannot accept that they are wrong.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Whilst I agree with the judgment, it will be interesting to see how the great MPs use the extra time they have now been given.RobD said:
I suspect not much will happen. Perhaps more tributes to Bercow?TheValiant said:
It's a very good point. Parliament will return tomorrow and do what?CD13 said:I still ask why Parliament is sitting. It has no intention of doing anything constructive. Amber Rudd speaks of doing something to break the logjam yet has no clear idea what.
What bill will be passed? Or even debated? The backbenchers will merely talk and big themselves up and at the same time hide from the electorate. They don't want any sort of Brexit and they fear a general election. They even fear a VONC.
This is a democracy? Really?
Unless the Leader of the Opposition is prepared to VoNC and try and take control themselves, there is little point to Parliament sitting anyway.
The current LotO is not up to the job, by a VERY VERY long way, and so far, excepting some remarks by Ken Clarke, there seems to be no other opposition leader a majority would get behind.
We need an election, just to sort out Parliament, let alone Brexit (we may need a 2nd Ref for that - we probably need both).
More grandstanding, I expect.
I am quite sceptical that the thwarting of an election -- while apparently have nothing of very great importance to do in Parliament on the main issue of the day -- will play that well with the electorate.0 -
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Nah, it should be what he's been waiting for. It is what he's been waiting for. He just won't take yes for an answer.TheJezziah said:
The Conservatives have been refusing another election ever since the 2017 election, then for a few weeks they have decided it was in their favour to have an election.AlastairMeeks said:
It will, on terrain of its choosing. Not at the chosen timing of an unelected Prime Minister that has never won a vote.basicbridge said:If the anti-Brexit campaign is so sure of its ground, why wont it fight an election?
Why should everyone jump when the Conservatives want an election if they don't when the shoe is on the other foot, for a far longer period as well.
I think we should have one after we get an extension but Conservatives whining about it have very little ground to stand on.
Plus at some point I think the jibes about being frit will hit home to Jezza and he might snap and agree to an election. We know he doesn't really care about Brexit one way or another and on balance is anti-EU but his integrity is being impugned here and I'm not sure he is the sort of bloke to be called a coward consistently and not respond and there's your election.0 -
Have any of those respectfully disagreeing with the Court's decision indicated in which respects the Judges erred in law?TheScreamingEagles said:
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Why the dyspepsia? You should be happy. You’re winning.TOPPING said:
twatByronic said:
Is this satire?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, if Boris has any sense he will tone the rhetotic, instruct the @HYUFDs of this world to cut out the garbage about Quisling Remainiac judges, accept the result of the case with good grace, and re-prorogue parliament legally for a few days over the Tory conference period. He can then have his shiny new session and his flagship Queen's Speech to flesh out his Conference promises.Pulpstar said:The judgement specifically makes reference to 4-6 days. That's why I (And Steve Baker) are quoting this as a route for the Gov't to a QS.
If he does this, this whole constitutional crisis and embarrassment will soon be forgotten except by lawyers.
Remainers have defeated Boris and Brexit in the Supreme Court. The war is far from over but this battle shows things are definitely going the Remainers’ way.
This will be remembered the same way El Alamein was remembered after WW2.0 -
Yes, that is absurd.Drutt said:Eager to avoid boxing themselves in like the PM, Labour have just voted to go net carbon zero by 2030. That would mean about a hundred months to get rid of all petrol and diesel cars, all gas heating, 20% less meat and milk, [insert solution here] for shipping and aviation.
Good luck.
I am strongly in favour of urgent action on climate change, but urgent does not mean utterly unrealistic.
Net zero globally by 2050 is a hard but not unrealistic target, which would be compatible with both greatly mitigating climate risk, and maintaining a functioning world economy.
The UK probably need to get there a bit sooner than that.0 -
Nah, it is I think you're wrong, but I accept and respect you made your decision in good faith.eristdoof said:
I don't get this "don't agree with the ruling". It sound's like a teenager who cannot accept that they are wrong.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
And how does that get through the Lords?dyedwoolie said:
One line FTPA amendment bill with the '21' able to stand as Tory candidates if they vote for and a deal done with a handful of the indies?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
The '21' aren't 21 anymore. She forget about Gyimah. I think he's long gone.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think it is an open secret that the Chief Whip has told the 21 that if they vote with the Government on the Queen's Speech and explicit confidence votes they'll get the whip back.dyedwoolie said:Interesting slip of the tongue in Rudds interview. Nothing concrete but she sounded like she was about to talk about some or all of the '21' being back under the whip and corrected herself and just said she hoped no 10 would see the sense of consensus and cooperation etc.
Edit - and I suspect a few others are as well (At least whilst Johnson is leader).0 -
Not in how they motivate politicians. A GE is much more likely if the Tory polling collapses for example.Anabobazina said:0 -
Including herTheValiant said:
The '21' aren't 21 anymore. She forget about Gyimah. I think he's long gone.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think it is an open secret that the Chief Whip has told the 21 that if they vote with the Government on the Queen's Speech and explicit confidence votes they'll get the whip back.dyedwoolie said:Interesting slip of the tongue in Rudds interview. Nothing concrete but she sounded like she was about to talk about some or all of the '21' being back under the whip and corrected herself and just said she hoped no 10 would see the sense of consensus and cooperation etc.
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Exactly. Boris should hold on, and send in the extension amidst a massive press conference, saying that he is doing this only to obey the law that the Remainer Parliament forced on him.moonshine said:HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.
Then take a copy, rip it up live on air, and say "This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election".
Job done!0 -
The Lords blocking an election for the Commons would be interesting.david_herdson said:
And how does that get through the Lords?dyedwoolie said:
One line FTPA amendment bill with the '21' able to stand as Tory candidates if they vote for and a deal done with a handful of the indies?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
Does it matter? Lords blocking a bill for an election passed by the commons would be a dreadful look and feed the 'narrative'david_herdson said:
And how does that get through the Lords?dyedwoolie said:
One line FTPA amendment bill with the '21' able to stand as Tory candidates if they vote for and a deal done with a handful of the indies?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
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I am pleased with the SC ruling as it confirms the primacy of Parliament in the UK constitution.
This would limit thee powers of the executive in any future Corbyn government.0 -
I suspect if the Tories get through this and achieve Brexit they will be thrilled with itVerulamius said:I am pleased with the SC ruling as it confirms the primacy of Parliament in the UK constitution.
This would limit thee powers of the executive in any future Corbyn government.0 -
Yes, Article 9 of the Bill of Rights - Proceedings in Parliament not being open to the Courts. That was the Government's argument, that this was high politics and not the preserve of judges. Many legal experts thought this was likely to win the day - they were proved wrong but it doesn't mean it wasn't/isn't a reasonable position to take.Peter_the_Punter said:
Have any of those respectfully disagreeing with the Court's decision indicated in which respects the Judges erred in law?TheScreamingEagles said:1 -
More likely prudent planning? The Con whips can have no idea what others have planned and need all their MPs in place to protect their position as best they can.Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
Frit?basicbridge said:If the anti-Brexit campaign is so sure of its ground, why wont it fight an election?
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Wouldn't this just be a (more theatrical) repeat of the stance May took after Parliament made her get an extension? It didn't work for her.blueblue said:
Exactly. Boris should hold on, and send in the extension amidst a massive press conference, saying that he is doing this only to obey the law that the Remainer Parliament forced on him.moonshine said:HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.
Then take a copy, rip it up live on air, and say "This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election".
Job done!
And the last bit of your post ("This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election") is still based on the idea that Boris gets to choose when the election is.0 -
True, but most who are angry are not exactly sticking to that, instead stating they know the judges politics.AndrewSpencer said:
Yes, Article 9 of the Bill of Rights - Proceedings in Parliament not being open to the Courts. That was the Government's argument, that this was high politics and not the preserve of judges. Many legal experts thought this was likely to win the day - they were proved wrong but it doesn't mean it wasn't/isn't a reasonable position to take.Peter_the_Punter said:
Have any of those respectfully disagreeing with the Court's decision indicated in which respects the Judges erred in law?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Who gives a **** about those things? When Corbyn and his demented cult are standing on stage heralding the coming far-left Utopia?Scott_P said:0 -
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.TheScreamingEagles said:
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."1 -
SC will back Jezza on most things and if they don't we can assume a majority Corbyn government will just abolish it...Verulamius said:I am pleased with the SC ruling as it confirms the primacy of Parliament in the UK constitution.
This would limit thee powers of the executive in any future Corbyn government.0 -
If Corbyn ever gets in, I hope they are as unanimous and forthright in overturning his proposed seizures of private property...Verulamius said:I am pleased with the SC ruling as it confirms the primacy of Parliament in the UK constitution.
This would limit thee powers of the executive in any future Corbyn government.0 -
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The personal crap doesn't matter, unless official matters intruded. The court stuff does because it looks incompetent and his fans clearly despise judges who rule agai st them and boris can barely summon the effort to pretend otherwise.blueblue said:
Who gives a **** about those things? When Corbyn and his demented cult are standing on stage heralding the coming far-left Utopia?Scott_P said:0 -
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Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.TheScreamingEagles said:
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."0 -
Has Boris gone yet?0
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Not according to Amber Rudd who said she heard nothing from the AG even though the cabinet had asked for it.Scott_P said:0 -
What I don`t understand is why the Conservatives have decided that they ought to reverse all their previous policies on education, the NHS and the police. They ought to explain why they have. Could it be that all their previous policies were mistaken?eristdoof said:
I don't get this "don't agree with the ruling". It sound's like a teenager who cannot accept that they are wrong.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Well given most of the Remainer Judges are more than likely multi millionaires it'll be their assests he'll be seizing... Conflict of interest then means the SC will have to be abolished if they try and frustrate his plans.blueblue said:
If Corbyn ever gets in, I hope they are as unanimous and forthright in overturning his proposed seizures of private property...Verulamius said:I am pleased with the SC ruling as it confirms the primacy of Parliament in the UK constitution.
This would limit thee powers of the executive in any future Corbyn government.0 -
The SC will go along with almost anything parliament has passed in primary legislation (even more so once the ECJ is no longer/less of a consideration). That's the difference with this: they've overturned something which was done to parliament precisely to stop it deciding its own business.GIN1138 said:
SC will back Jezza on most things and if they don't we can assume a majority Corbyn government will just abolish it...Verulamius said:I am pleased with the SC ruling as it confirms the primacy of Parliament in the UK constitution.
This would limit thee powers of the executive in any future Corbyn government.0 -
I am always happy and I am not particularly winning in this instance. I don't want a no deal, and nor do I want a Corbyn government so my options aren't particularly great at this point.Byronic said:
Why the dyspepsia? You should be happy. You’re winning.TOPPING said:
twatByronic said:
Is this satire?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, if Boris has any sense he will tone the rhetotic, instruct the @HYUFDs of this world to cut out the garbage about Quisling Remainiac judges, accept the result of the case with good grace, and re-prorogue parliament legally for a few days over the Tory conference period. He can then have his shiny new session and his flagship Queen's Speech to flesh out his Conference promises.Pulpstar said:The judgement specifically makes reference to 4-6 days. That's why I (And Steve Baker) are quoting this as a route for the Gov't to a QS.
If he does this, this whole constitutional crisis and embarrassment will soon be forgotten except by lawyers.
Remainers have defeated Boris and Brexit in the Supreme Court. The war is far from over but this battle shows things are definitely going the Remainers’ way.
This will be remembered the same way El Alamein was remembered after WW2.
The possible pathways are enough to make anyone's head explode. If, as our favourite diehard Remainer @HYUFD believes, Boris resigns, Corbyn takes over, is VONC'd (as he would be with current numbers), and then there is a GE, would Boris stand or would he be out of the game forever not trusted by Brexiters. If he stands, would he win and then we are back to no deal (or are we what exactly does the Benn Act say?). Would, say, Hunt take over and then would Brexiters fuck off to TBP hence delivering Corbyn, or would Corbyn's support leak to the LDs in which case we are back with Cons (under...?).
Or...or...
I am certainly not winning. And while l'etat certainly n'est pas moi, I'm not sure anyone else in the UK is either.0 -
Hopefully not in the way you expect!bigjohnowls said:
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Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?1 -
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Hope they didn't fly out with Thomas Cook....david_herdson said:
More likely prudent planning? The Con whips can have no idea what others have planned and need all their MPs in place to protect their position as best they can.Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1176486449266483200
3 line whip tomorrow
Expecting shenanigans...0 -
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How many of Corbyn's own MPs voted to chuck him out? He didn't give a shit about that, and nor will or should Boris about this.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?0 -
Depends what legal advice the Government was given. The Cabinet asked to see this advice and it was not forthcoming. That suggests it indicated the proposed proroguing was of questionable legality.Norm said:
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.TheScreamingEagles said:
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
That is probably a resigning matter.0 -
LoL good thinking.GIN1138 said:
Well given most of the Remainer Judges are more than likely multi millionaires it'll be their assests he'll be seizing... Conflict of interest then means the SC will have to be abolished if they try and frustrate his plans.blueblue said:
If Corbyn ever gets in, I hope they are as unanimous and forthright in overturning his proposed seizures of private property...Verulamius said:I am pleased with the SC ruling as it confirms the primacy of Parliament in the UK constitution.
This would limit thee powers of the executive in any future Corbyn government.0 -
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?1 -
Cox OutPeter_the_Punter said:
Depends what legal advice the Government was given. The Cabinet asked to see this advice and it was not forthcoming. That suggests it indicated the proposed proroguing was of questionable legality.Norm said:
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.TheScreamingEagles said:
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
That is probably a resigning matter.
Jester would take it as an opportunity!!1 -
I reckon there might be one
sacrificial lambresignation - Geoffrey Cox may well have to consider his own position given he advised the Gov't prorogation would be legal.
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I feel like the 'the judges are remainers' is a scripted kind of line which expected a split decision, because it becomes highly unlikely all 11, including the 'good' ones from the A50 case, voted the same way politically.0
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What's all this "there is no alternative" sh1te?blueblue said:
Who gives a **** about those things? When Corbyn and his demented cult are standing on stage heralding the coming far-left Utopia?Scott_P said:
If Johnson is so worried about Corbyn, hand over to a Conservative who'll abide by the law, is capable of commanding the trust of colleagues, is able to win a Parliamentary vote, and isn't the sort of guy who hands contracts paid for with taxpayer money to his mistress.
He's not the one thing that stands between us and the red menace. He's a massive part of the problem, and his best route now is to take the whisky and revolver, and to step outside.0 -
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.0 -
He put himself forward and was returned with an increased majority.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
Ohhh Jerrreeemmmmy Coòoorrrrbyn1 -
You’re missing the wood by focusing on the trees.TOPPING said:
I am always happy and I am not particularly winning in this instance. I don't want a no deal, and nor do I want a Corbyn government so my options aren't particularly great at this point.Byronic said:
Why the dyspepsia? You should be happy. You’re winning.TOPPING said:
twatByronic said:
Is this satire?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, if Boris has any sense he will tone the rhetotic, instruct the @HYUFDs of this world to cut out the garbage about Quisling Remainiac judges, accept the result of the case with good grace, and re-prorogue parliament legally for a few days over the Tory conference period. He can then have his shiny new session and his flagship Queen's Speech to flesh out his Conference promises.Pulpstar said:The judgement specifically makes reference to 4-6 days. That's why I (And Steve Baker) are quoting this as a route for the Gov't to a QS.
If he does this, this whole constitutional crisis and embarrassment will soon be forgotten except by lawyers.
Remainers have defeated Boris and Brexit in the Supreme Court. The war is far from over but this battle shows things are definitely going the Remainers’ way.
This will be remembered the same way El Alamein was remembered after WW2.
The possible pathways are enough to make anyone's head explode. If, as our favourite diehard Remainer @HYUFD believes, Boris resigns, Corbyn takes over, is VONC'd (as he would be with current numbers), and then there is a GE, would Boris stand or would he be out of the game forever not trusted by Brexiters. If he stands, would he win and then we are back to no deal (or are we what exactly does the Benn Act say?). Would, say, Hunt take over and then would Brexiters fuck off to TBP hence delivering Corbyn, or would Corbyn's support leak to the LDs in which case we are back with Cons (under...?).
Or...or...
I am certainly not winning. And while l'etat certainly n'est pas moi, I'm not sure anyone else in the UK is either.
Yes if you drill down to details Brexit is impossibly complex, confusing and hard to call. Again a good analogy is with a large war. If you focused on all the small human actions that make up a war, the individual choices of, and decisions by, soldiers, citizens, politicians, etc, then the war would appear monumentally messy. The data would overwhelm.
So instead you have to step back and intuit the bigger picture. What does it feel like, out there? And that says Remain is winning, IMHO
The only caveat I’d add is this presumes Dom and Boris don’t have a brilliant and cunning plan, which they will execute 4 minutes before Halloween. But I’m reaching the conclusion they have no such plan. They’re winging it.0 -
LDs confirm they will support VONC even if no unity govt can be formed0
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Yes, well that is Boris's plan too.bigjohnowls said:
He put himself forward and was returned with an increased majority.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
Ohhh Jerrreeemmmmy Coòoorrrrbyn0 -
He may not have done. If he did, why was the Cabinet not shown the advice, as requested?Pulpstar said:I reckon there might be one
sacrificial lambresignation - Geoffrey Cox may well have to consider his own position given he advised the Gov't prorogation would be legal.0 -
Conspicuous lack of tweets :
https://twitter.com/Geoffrey_Cox/status/11754429928842649660 -
The government is not above the law. This is the point. It's a mistake to seek a partisan political angle in the ruling. There isn't one.blueblue said:If Corbyn ever gets in, I hope they are as unanimous and forthright in overturning his proposed seizures of private property...
0 -
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.CD13 said:Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.0 -
Dooooooooing worse than Miiiiiichael Foooot!bigjohnowls said:
He put himself forward and was returned with an increased majority.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
Ohhh Jerrreeemmmmy Coòoorrrrbyn0 -
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?0 -
He doesn't believe HM should be Queen and would abolish the mnonarchy tomorrow if he could. That's worse than miscalculating a prorogation!Jonathan said:
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?0 -
Are we finally moving to an election?dyedwoolie said:LDs confirm they will support VONC even if no unity govt can be formed
0 -
I’m impressed by Cherry. Very impressed. She’s a terrific lawyer, whereas Sturgeon has been so absorbed by politics since her teens that she never really made the grade in law.sarissa said:
Whisper it quietly, but IMO Joanna Cherry is emerging as a very credible alternative leader to Nicola - she is also much more cautious on some of the more divisive SNP policies such as the Gender Recognition legislation.JosiasJessop said:Ms Miller was proven correct, wasn't she?
Shes done more for democracy than the hordes of 'bring back control' Brexiteers.
Nothing to do with being my MP, of course.
However, Sturgeon is a politician from top to toe. I’m worried that Cherry may be a little naive. But maybe a bit of curiosity, naivety and innovation is what the country needs.0 -
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1176486255925825536Peter_the_Punter said:
He may not have done. If he did, why was the Cabinet not shown the advice, as requested?Pulpstar said:I reckon there might be one
sacrificial lambresignation - Geoffrey Cox may well have to consider his own position given he advised the Gov't prorogation would be legal.0 -
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.Norm said:
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.TheScreamingEagles said:
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
0 -
The tory conference if it goes ahead will be baying for blood of the remainiacs, not literally one Hope's0
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Brexit is a kind of revolution, and we were trying to do it quietly. Boris seems to have tumbled that to get it done you have to be noisy and explosive. Today enables that.Byronic said:
You’re missing the wood by focusing on the trees.TOPPING said:
I am always happy and I am not particularly winning in this instance. I don't want a no deal, and nor do I want a Corbyn government so my options aren't particularly great at this point.Byronic said:
Why the dyspepsia? You should be happy. You’re winning.TOPPING said:
twatByronic said:
Is this satire?Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, ifPulpstar said:The judgement specifically makes reference to 4-6 days. That's why I (And Steve Baker) are quoting this as a route for the Gov't to a QS.
If he does this, this whole constitutional crisis and embarrassment will soon be forgotten except by lawyers.
Remainers have defeated Boris and Brexit in the Supreme Court. The war is far from over but this battle shows things are definitely going the Remainers’ way.
This will be remembered the same way El Alamein was remembered after WW2.
The possible pathways are enough to make anyone's head explode. If, as our favourite diehard Remainer @HYUFD believes, Boris resigns, Corbyn takes over, is VONC'd (as he would be with current numbers), and then there is a GE, would Boris stand or would he be out of the game forever not trusted by Brexiters. If he stands, would he win and then we are back to no deal (or are we what exactly does the Benn Act say?). Would, say, Hunt take over and then would Brexiters fuck off to TBP hence delivering Corbyn, or would Corbyn's support leak to the LDs in which case we are back with Cons (under...?).
Or...or...
I am certainly not winning. And while l'etat certainly n'est pas moi, I'm not sure anyone else in the UK is either.
Yes if you drill down to details Brexit is impossibly complex, confusing and hard to call. Again a good analogy is with a large war. If you focused on all the small human actions that make up a war, the individual choices of, and decisions by, soldiers, citizens, politicians, etc, then the war would appear monumentally messy. The data would overwhelm.
So instead you have to step back and intuit the bigger picture. What does it feel like, out there? And that says Remain is winning, IMHO
The only caveat I’d add is this presumes Dom and Boris don’t have a brilliant and cunning plan, which they will execute 4 minutes before Halloween. But I’m reaching the conclusion they have no such plan. They’re winging it.0 -
That's a brave stance - does it mean they now believe the Benn bill is watertight and there must be an extensionGIN1138 said:
Are we finally moving to an election?dyedwoolie said:LDs confirm they will support VONC even if no unity govt can be formed
0 -
For the millionth time, reading this site is not a reliable guide to the mood in country. They will be angry, and not at Boris. What was just about Brexit is now going to result in the closest we ever get to revolution. This has been mishandled all round (and no I never supported this ludicrous prorogation, I just doubted it was unlawful).
Sigh..... Wake me up when it’s over.0 -
Surely Parliament an find a new PM other than Boris or Jeremy? A Tory who voted Leave who isn't in the Cabinet with integrity?
No. I can't think of anyone either0 -
It really isn't. Bozza has done more than believe something, his government quite deliberately did something unlawful that has compromised HM. If he had any honour he would go.blueblue said:
He doesn't believe HM should be Queen and would abolish the mnonarchy tomorrow if he could. That's worse than miscalculating a prorogation!Jonathan said:
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
He is hardly irreplaceable. The Tories could put it down to Summer madness, find a new leader and get on with it.0 -
Yes, well, I'd advise not holding your breath!Jonathan said:
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?0 -
Deliberately or inadvertantly?Jonathan said:
It really isn't. Bozza has done more than believe something, his government quite deliberately did something unlawful that has compromised HM. If he had any honour he would go.blueblue said:
He doesn't believe HM should be Queen and would abolish the mnonarchy tomorrow if he could. That's worse than miscalculating a prorogation!Jonathan said:
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
He is hardly irreplaceable. The Tories could put it down to Summer madness, find a new leader and get on with it.0 -
It's up to the Tories who their leader is, and the Commons who the Prime Minister is.Jonathan said:
It really isn't. Bozza has done more than believe something, his government quite deliberately did something unlawful that has compromised HM. If he had any honour he would go.blueblue said:
He doesn't believe HM should be Queen and would abolish the mnonarchy tomorrow if he could. That's worse than miscalculating a prorogation!Jonathan said:
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
He is hardly irreplaceable. The Tories could put it down to Summer madness, find a new leader and get on with it.
No it hasn't, read the full judgement1 -
The opposition really have a constitutional duty to propose a VONC, otherwise what is the point of them? If you dont propose no conf now, then when?!2
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That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.CD13 said:Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.0 -
Actually I think HYFUD is right because it is the way he gets what he wants, which is an election. He resigns as PM, but not as leader of the Conservative Party. Possibly he nominates Raab safe in the knowledge it will never through but takes up a bit more time. But, at some point, Corbyn has to be invited to form a Government - forget all this nonsense about a GNU under Ken Clarke, Labour won't go with it, nor should it.blueblue said:
Exactly. Boris should hold on, and send in the extension amidst a massive press conference, saying that he is doing this only to obey the law that the Remainer Parliament forced on him.moonshine said:HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.
Then take a copy, rip it up live on air, and say "This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election".
Job done!
What next? Voting for Corbyn puts the Lib Dems in an awful position. It sees the Tories absolutely hammer them in Tory Remain seats in the SE as backers of Corbyn and his redistributive policies. And, if the SNP join the LDs in backing Corbyn, then the Tories can also press home in Scotland that the only safe party for Unionists to vote for is the Conservative party.
However, if the LDs do not vote for him, then it is unlikely he has the numbers given ex-Labour MPs etc (not to mention the 21 Conservatives). So we go to an election.
If BJ is smart (big question), he resigns as PM
1 -
Lab say nonGIN1138 said:
Are we finally moving to an election?dyedwoolie said:LDs confirm they will support VONC even if no unity govt can be formed
0 -
Indeed. The (current) Tories will double down with Boris. The smart move would be chuck him overboard, find an actual Conservative leader, reunite the party and go to the country.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, well, I'd advise not holding your breath!Jonathan said:
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.bigjohnowls said:Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
They won't because it's a cult at the moment.0 -
The Lib Dems have had a good few weeks and have a bit of mo - they would be idiots not to want an election IMO. Means nothing though if Labour and the SNP are against.GIN1138 said:
Are we finally moving to an election?dyedwoolie said:LDs confirm they will support VONC even if no unity govt can be formed
0 -
and of course she is from Yorkshire.TheScreamingEagles said:God I love the law.
I think I may put Lady Hale in the same category as my heroes, Atticus Finch and Henry Drummond/Clarence Darrow.0 -
The reply to my post from PtP highlights an important distinction which I would agree withSirNorfolkPassmore said:
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.Norm said:
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.TheScreamingEagles said:
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.0
