politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Season of Myths
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Season of Myths
As we approach witching hour, a handy cut-out and keep guide to some of the more common Brexit myths.
Comments
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In Boris we trust.0
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Singapore being expelled from Malaysia might be a better comparison to a no deal Brexit than Greenland's departure, one which caused initial disruption but was better for both parties in the long term.
Surely parliament passing repeated extensions (assuming the EU agree) is in practice little different than revoking Article 50?0 -
Very good essay.
I suppose there may be other myths. For instance I really think there are people who believe we are living in the 19th century---only that wouldn't be how they put it.0 -
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It looks like there is the potential for something positive to come of the fried chicken boxes. I do hope someone in government will put the time in to build relationships.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/19/chicken-boxes-home-office-knife-crime0 -
*Puts on pedant’s hat*
Actually Algeria also left.1 -
FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."0 -
Good article Ms. Cycle-Free.
It strikes me that the Remainers' best argument should be, to misuse another of Johnson's favourite politician's quotes, "No-Deal is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. It [will only be] the end of the beginning. " No-Deal Brexit for years of Brexit turmoil.0 -
Brexit: Not as bad as the Algerian War of Independence.AlastairMeeks said:*Puts on pedant’s hat*
Actually Algeria also left.1 -
Strictly speaking, Algeria didn't leave the EU. It left the EEC.AlastairMeeks said:*Puts on pedant’s hat*
Actually Algeria also left.0 -
I suspect they will get some ripe language thrown in their direction....SandyRentool said:FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."0 -
Hilariously, Brexiteers are already accusing Johnson of selling out.Scott_P said:0 -
Perhaps if the EU had been established 20 years earlier the Algerians would have decided to stay in France/Europe.OblitusSumMe said:
Brexit: Not as bad as the Algerian War of Independence.AlastairMeeks said:*Puts on pedant’s hat*
Actually Algeria also left.0 -
It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.0
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Is there a charity for those with Asparagus Syndrome?SandyRentool said:FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."0 -
TBH, the striking thing about that list of puns was how unimaginative and unfunny they were. Foxy, Nigelb and I - to name just a few - come up with far better than that on a regular basis. Heck, a beggar trying to get the price of a meal (he claimed) out of me in London could do better.MarqueeMark said:
I suspect they will get some ripe language thrown in their direction....SandyRentool said:FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."
It doesn't say much for contemporary comedy if that's the best they can offer, and still less if they think they're funny.0 -
Terrific article Cyclefree.
That's it.0 -
Their allegations will hopefully gain no purchase.williamglenn said:
Hilariously, Brexiteers are already accusing Johnson of selling out.Scott_P said:0 -
"Decided"???dodrade said:
Perhaps if the EU had been established 20 years earlier the Algerians would have decided to stay in France/Europe.OblitusSumMe said:
Brexit: Not as bad as the Algerian War of Independence.AlastairMeeks said:*Puts on pedant’s hat*
Actually Algeria also left.
You don't decide to leave the EU. You cannot leave the EU; not without mutilating yourself, or signing up to colonial status.
The idea that Britain was "sovereign" in the EU was, it turns out, another big fat myth - this time a Remainer myth. It should be added to Cyclefree's excellent list.
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Wibbly wobbly Boris bottom!williamglenn said:
Hilariously, Brexiteers are already accusing Johnson of selling out.Scott_P said:
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New market: Next GE - Kensington (Lab Maj 20, Emma Dent Coad MP)
Con 4/7
Lab 7/4
LD 6/10 -
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.0 -
Is EDC standing again, do we know? Given her age, presumably her lack of interest in the job and the series of unmitigated public relations disasters her general thickness and lack of skill have caused, I was wondering if she might step down and give some ambitious young Labour staffer a run at it.StuartDickson said:New market: Next GE - Kensington (Lab Maj 20, Emma Dent Coad MP)
Con 4/7
Lab 7/4
LD 6/10 -
By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.0 -
Well if he doesn't learn to duck ...ydoethur said:
The odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
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Unfortunately for them Labour have carefully calibrated matters so that if we crash out with no deal they will get no credit from Leavers and maximum ordure from Remainers.Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.
The only real winners in that scenario would be the Liberal Democrats and SNP, who have both at least been clear and consistent, and Sinn Fein.0 -
Some predictions
1. A50 will be extended again, covertly facilitated by Johnson.
2. There will be a general election in November.
3. The Tories will gain most seats but will be unable to form a government. The BXP will gain zero seats.
4. Labour will form a minority government with C&S from LDs and SNP.
5. Labour will then negotiate a permanent CU WDA which will not get the support of parliament.
6. There will then be a referendum with the permanent CU WDA versus Remain.
7. Labour will campaign for Remain.
8. Remain will win and we will revoke A50 in mid 2020.
9. The minority Labour government will turn out to be successful and transformative.
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Well, if he doesn't learn to duck, he's goosed.Mysticrose said:
Well if he doesn't learn to duck ...ydoethur said:
The odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
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Believe.Mexicanpete said:In Boris we trust.
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AFAIAA none of the parties have announced PPCs for Kensington.ydoethur said:
Is EDC standing again, do we know? Given her age, presumably her lack of interest in the job and the series of unmitigated public relations disasters her general thickness and lack of skill have caused, I was wondering if she might step down and give some ambitious young Labour staffer a run at it.StuartDickson said:New market: Next GE - Kensington (Lab Maj 20, Emma Dent Coad MP)
Con 4/7
Lab 7/4
LD 6/1
I note that the Greens and minor candidates got well over 1000 votes in Kensington last time. I wonder, if they don’t stand, could Labour maybe hold off the Tories?0 -
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.0 -
Yes, Barnesian, of course. A government of tenth rate drunken Fascists with the IQ of dead stoats will be successful and transformative. Because it's working so well right now.Barnesian said:Some predictions
1. A50 will be extended again, covertly facilitated by Johnson.
2. There will be a general election in November.
3. The Tories will gain most seats but will be unable to form a government. The BXP will gain zero seats.
4. Labour will form a minority government with C&S from LDs and SNP.
5. Labour will then negotiate a permanent CU WDA which will not get the support of parliament.
6. There will then be a referendum with the permanent CU WDA versus Remain.
7. Labour will campaign for Remain.
8. Remain will win and we will revoke A50 in mid 2020.
9. The minority Labour government will turn out to be successful and transformative.
And I do not think there will be an attempt to extend. This is the crunch moment. Unfortunately having rejected rather a good deal and made no preparation for any other scenario we are not in a good situation to meet it.0 -
Personally, I get really pissed off by Arctic explorers, showing off their frostbitten stumps of feet. I get so angry, I went to the doc about it.Rexel56 said:
Is there a charity for those with Asparagus Syndrome?SandyRentool said:FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."
He said I was lack-toes intolerant.0 -
My Italian wife has just booked a trip to see her elderly mother in Italy at Xmas...we've only been living back in the UK for 2 years. My wife doesn't meet the criteria for settled status. She has been a UK taxpayer for 25 years. My wife's birthday is the 1st November...the day when her entitlement to live in the UK ends.0
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Impressive but ridiculous.Barnesian said:Some predictions
1. A50 will be extended again, covertly facilitated by Johnson.
2. There will be a general election in November.
3. The Tories will gain most seats but will be unable to form a government. The BXP will gain zero seats.
4. Labour will form a minority government with C&S from LDs and SNP.
5. Labour will then negotiate a permanent CU WDA which will not get the support of parliament.
6. There will then be a referendum with the permanent CU WDA versus Remain.
7. Labour will campaign for Remain.
8. Remain will win and we will revoke A50 in mid 2020.
9. The minority Labour government will turn out to be successful and transformative.
You go wrong with point 1 (and get sillier). Just how will Boris "covertly facilitate" an extension of A50?0 -
Of course that's the plan. That's what they've wanted all along.Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.1 -
Well, Kensington on its current boundaries is not that bad a seat for Labour. Most of the posher areas seem to have ended up in Chelsea. So yes, I think hey could, but whether they will with somebody as bad as Emma Dent Coad, who is a southern version of Jared O'Mara, is another question.StuartDickson said:
AFAIAA none of the parties have announced PPCs for Kensington.ydoethur said:
Is EDC standing again, do we know? Given her age, presumably her lack of interest in the job and the series of unmitigated public relations disasters her general thickness and lack of skill have caused, I was wondering if she might step down and give some ambitious young Labour staffer a run at it.StuartDickson said:New market: Next GE - Kensington (Lab Maj 20, Emma Dent Coad MP)
Con 4/7
Lab 7/4
LD 6/1
I note that the Greens and minor candidates got well over 1000 votes in Kensington last time. I wonder, if they don’t stand, could Labour maybe hold off the Tories?
But then, she won last time.0 -
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.0 -
The secret of comedy?ydoethur said:
TBH, the striking thing about that list of puns was how unimaginative and unfunny they were. Foxy, Nigelb and I - to name just a few - come up with far better than that on a regular basis. Heck, a beggar trying to get the price of a meal (he claimed) out of me in London could do better.MarqueeMark said:
I suspect they will get some ripe language thrown in their direction....SandyRentool said:FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."
It doesn't say much for contemporary comedy if that's the best they can offer, and still less if they think they're funny.
Timing.
If you peas...0 -
Well, your timing was swede, but none of these others were a turnip for the books.Foxy said:
The secret of comedy?ydoethur said:
TBH, the striking thing about that list of puns was how unimaginative and unfunny they were. Foxy, Nigelb and I - to name just a few - come up with far better than that on a regular basis. Heck, a beggar trying to get the price of a meal (he claimed) out of me in London could do better.MarqueeMark said:
I suspect they will get some ripe language thrown in their direction....SandyRentool said:FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."
It doesn't say much for contemporary comedy if that's the best they can offer, and still less if they think they're funny.
Timing.
If you peas...0 -
New definitions of what constitutes a successful Brecit, part 406.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
The Dark Ages0 -
I am not sure there is an inevitability to a Labour recovery in the polls. There won't be many Blue-Red switchers. There will be churn. But I am not sure that many current Tory voters will think - 'well that Jeremy is quite a decent chap after all, I shall vote for him now.' They will look for a different home.Tabman said:
Of course that's the plan. That's what they've wanted all along.Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.0 -
She can apply for pre-settled status with six months proof of residence. Might be a bit of a queue though, with 2 million others.tyson said:My Italian wife has just booked a trip to see her elderly mother in Italy at Xmas...we've only been living back in the UK for 2 years. My wife doesn't meet the criteria for settled status. She has been a UK taxpayer for 25 years. My wife's birthday is the 1st November...the day when her entitlement to live in the UK ends.
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Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.0 -
I agree. But I think Corbyn and McDonnell are somewhat equivocal about democracy. Brexit begets revolution is their game.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure there is an inevitability to a Labour recovery in the polls. There won't be many Blue-Red switchers. There will be churn. But I am not sure that many current Tory voters will think - 'well that Jeremy is quite a decent chap after all, I shall vote for him now.' They will look for a different home.Tabman said:
Of course that's the plan. That's what they've wanted all along.Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.0 -
Which Brexiteers here really do think these last years were worth it?
Wouldn't it have been easier for you if the EU referendum had never happened and you could claim the moral high ground and moan from afar?0 -
Imposters. If they were the real thing they'd be asking him to fucking apologise for his cunting joke.SandyRentool said:FPT:
"A charity for people with Tourette's syndrome has asked a comedian to apologise for his award-winning joke made at the Edinburgh Fringe festival."0 -
If he can covertly facilitate Jeremy Hunt coming second, all things must be possible.Byronic said:
Impressive but ridiculous.Barnesian said:Some predictions
1. A50 will be extended again, covertly facilitated by Johnson.
2. There will be a general election in November.
3. The Tories will gain most seats but will be unable to form a government. The BXP will gain zero seats.
4. Labour will form a minority government with C&S from LDs and SNP.
5. Labour will then negotiate a permanent CU WDA which will not get the support of parliament.
6. There will then be a referendum with the permanent CU WDA versus Remain.
7. Labour will campaign for Remain.
8. Remain will win and we will revoke A50 in mid 2020.
9. The minority Labour government will turn out to be successful and transformative.
You go wrong with point 1 (and get sillier). Just how will Boris "covertly facilitate" an extension of A50?0 -
That sounded like a damn good approximation of Rome under the Empire to me, Byronic!Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.0 -
Sounds just like the Roman Empire...Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.
Though after the Romans left, we did become a failed state.0 -
Thanks Fox......I cannot begin to tell you just how relentlessly depressing and how intensely personal this whole Brexit debacle feels like to people like us caught in the crossfire........Foxy said:
She can apply for pre-settled status with six months proof of residence. Might be a bit of a queue though, with 2 million others.tyson said:My Italian wife has just booked a trip to see her elderly mother in Italy at Xmas...we've only been living back in the UK for 2 years. My wife doesn't meet the criteria for settled status. She has been a UK taxpayer for 25 years. My wife's birthday is the 1st November...the day when her entitlement to live in the UK ends.
I wish I could reciprocate with something as nasty and horribly undermining and personal to the likes of Farage, Rees Mogg, Johnson, Banks, Cummings and Gove..but what could I do?
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We had Arthur chance to build a kingdom if we took the right route, but we chose a Badon, and the whole place collapsed in an orgy of Saxon violence.Foxy said:
Sounds just like the Roman Empire...Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.
Though after the Romans left, we did become a failed state.
Have a good evening.0 -
it would certainly be in with a serious chance at a Summarised Gibbon contest.ydoethur said:
That sounded like a damn good approximation of Rome under the Empire to me, Byronic!Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.0 -
Slumming it in Glasgow this week
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Here's another thing
*bangs table*
We're all fixated on how Brexit is going down, NOW (and for good reason. No Deal is a mildly terrifying prospect)
But how will it be seen in five or ten years, by the rest of Europe? I think it poses huge problems for the EU, however it turns out. Because....
Imagine Brexit is a surprising success (maybe take some acid first). The threat here is clear: if Britain can make Brexit work, then why shouldn't italy make Italexit work, or Hungary do a Hungquit? Especially as the EU tries to integrate even further? The EU could lose members quite quickly, in that scenario.
But, of course, Brexit is more likely to be bad news for Britain. Perhaps really bad news. And yet, even there it will be grim for the EU, too.
How so? Because, across Europe, other nations will look at the UK and think: "even the Brits - who were not in the euro, not in Schenghen, never fully committed, a rich powerful country - could not successfully exit the EU. They were, in effect, trapped: which means that me, us, my country (inside the euro etc) we are even more trapped".
Ancient nations do not like being trapped. No one wants to be in a room without a door. A bad Brexit will cause enormous psychological strains, in the EU, over time.0 -
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No.Ishmael_Z said:
it would certainly be in with a serious chance at a Summarised Gibbon contest.ydoethur said:
That sounded like a damn good approximation of Rome under the Empire to me, Byronic!Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.
It is, quite neatly, a good description of Rome at the end of the Western Empire. Say 400AD. It is not a good description of Rome at the height of her puissance. Three centuries earlier.
Which means the EU is about to fall to the Goths.0 -
We were rather pict on by barbarians.ydoethur said:
We had Arthur chance to build a kingdom if we took the right route, but we chose a Badon, and the whole place collapsed in an orgy of Saxon violence.Foxy said:
Sounds just like the Roman Empire...Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.
Though after the Romans left, we did become a failed state.
Have a good evening.0 -
Even if it's not that likely to work out, it's still Jez's best chance, and he knows it. Also, you don't necessarily have to get voters to switch to win elections - getting your lot fired up while the other guys voters are cheesed off and stay at home works too.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure there is an inevitability to a Labour recovery in the polls. There won't be many Blue-Red switchers. There will be churn. But I am not sure that many current Tory voters will think - 'well that Jeremy is quite a decent chap after all, I shall vote for him now.' They will look for a different home.Tabman said:
Of course that's the plan. That's what they've wanted all along.Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.0 -
An election in thick dark? I just can't see that very readily. I feel that the election would either be before the clocks go back or in the Spring.Barnesian said:Some predictions
2. There will be a general election in November.0 -
Yeah. Agreed. My take on Corbyn and McD is that they've given up on a majority (probably wisely), They are going for a core-vote-plus-some-desperate-Remainers strategy. It could get them near 30.theProle said:
Even if it's not that likely to work out, it's still Jez's best chance, and he knows it. Also, you don't necessarily have to get voters to switch to win elections - getting your lot fired up while the other guys voters are cheesed off and stay at home works too.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure there is an inevitability to a Labour recovery in the polls. There won't be many Blue-Red switchers. There will be churn. But I am not sure that many current Tory voters will think - 'well that Jeremy is quite a decent chap after all, I shall vote for him now.' They will look for a different home.Tabman said:
Of course that's the plan. That's what they've wanted all along.Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.
And if Boris fucks up Brexit then the BXP could eat the Tory vote and 26-30 would perhaps be enough for Corbz to form a wobbly minority govt. From there they can build.0 -
Very good points below about the LibDems (obvs I'm biased). The Labour attacks on us show their nervousness on this score.0
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We had a November election in 1935. In the 20th century general elections were held in December , January and February. Moreover, the availability of postal votes makes such timing a more realistic option than in the past.Mysticrose said:
An election in thick dark? I just can't see that very readily. I feel that the election would either be before the clocks go back or in the Spring.Barnesian said:Some predictions
2. There will be a general election in November.0 -
The whole Roman Empire was a failed state by the time they finally cut the ties with Britannia. Iindeed thst was part if the reason why the ties were cut.Foxy said:
Sounds just like the Roman Empire...Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.
Though after the Romans left, we did become a failed state.
So perhaps yiur comparison is more accurate than you would like.0 -
Nope it is definitely worth it. Or will be if we actually leave. If we don't then it is people like you who will soon be wishing we had.tyson said:Which Brexiteers here really do think these last years were worth it?
Wouldn't it have been easier for you if the EU referendum had never happened and you could claim the moral high ground and moan from afar?0 -
Corbyn at his speech today said that John McDonnells statement this morning that labour would campaign to remain was his 'private view'
So that is you told John
And Corbyn wants to be PM0 -
Spring 2020 for that election. Otherwise flawless.Barnesian said:Some predictions
1. A50 will be extended again, covertly facilitated by Johnson.
2. There will be a general election in November.
3. The Tories will gain most seats but will be unable to form a government. The BXP will gain zero seats.
4. Labour will form a minority government with C&S from LDs and SNP.
5. Labour will then negotiate a permanent CU WDA which will not get the support of parliament.
6. There will then be a referendum with the permanent CU WDA versus Remain.
7. Labour will campaign for Remain.
8. Remain will win and we will revoke A50 in mid 2020.
9. The minority Labour government will turn out to be successful and transformative.0 -
I just spent the weekend working on a paper (the editor likes it but it still has to pass the review board, so touch wood) and the soundtrack whilst I worked was "A Slight Case Of Overbombing: The Sisters of Mercy greatest hits, vol 1". My inner Goth needed a headpat. When the film of my life is made, it will end on a scene of me dancing around in the room in my pants with "Lucretia My Reflection" on the soundtrack. Thelma Schoonmaker will do a smash cut to the credits in black and all shall be amazed.Byronic said:
No.Ishmael_Z said:
it would certainly be in with a serious chance at a Summarised Gibbon contest.ydoethur said:
That sounded like a damn good approximation of Rome under the Empire to me, Byronic!Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.
It is, quite neatly, a good description of Rome at the end of the Western Empire. Say 400AD. It is not a good description of Rome at the height of her puissance. Three centuries earlier.
Which means the EU is about to fall to the Goths.0 -
Yes, the loss of Britannia was the clearest sign that Rome was in terminal decline. A rich, fertile province, full of tin and furs and game and fish, with one of the greatest Roman cities north of the Alps. A province so important the Romans built a fucking big wall to defend it? Yet they had to let it go. And it didn't help them: the decline accelerated.Richard_Tyndall said:
The whole Roman Empire was a failed state by the time they finally cut the ties with Britannia. Iindeed thst was part if the reason why the ties were cut.Foxy said:
Sounds just like the Roman Empire...Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, or indeed inciting rebellion in the hope of making it fall (check out the Gallic Empire) turned out not to be a profitable venture. To quote Keynes, in the long run we are all dead. But short of invading Hungary with Russian troops, there is no way the EU will collapse in time to be of any help in this situation.
Though after the Romans left, we did become a failed state.
So perhaps yiur comparison is more accurate than you would like.
An intriguing echo. We await Hengist and Horsa.0 -
How can No Deal crash-out followed by election be the wet dream of Corbyn and McDonnell and at the same time of Johnson and Cummings?Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.0 -
Boris releasing his letter is a sensible move and he needs to publish all correspondence between his office and the EU as this builds towards October
He is obviously seeking to win the public debate. Sky did a vox pops from Corby following Corbyn's speech and Boris received considerable backing for his stance from those interviewed. The mood seemed to be lets get this done0 -
I haven't got time to check this as I'm working on something but I'd be interested to know how governing parties have fared in winter elections compared to spring and summer ones?justin124 said:
We had a November election in 1935. In the 20th century general elections were held in December , January and February. Moreover, the availability of postal votes makes such timing a more realistic option than in the past.Mysticrose said:
An election in thick dark? I just can't see that very readily. I feel that the election would either be before the clocks go back or in the Spring.Barnesian said:Some predictions
2. There will be a general election in November.
Feb 1974 didn't go too well for Ted Heath iirc. But Wilson managed to nudge up to a majority in the election held on October 10th of the same year.
It's all about the clocks. Even today.0 -
Oh, only if you believe as I do and almost every sane member of the human species (and probably much of the animal kingdom) that a No Deal Brexit will be a total and utter shitshow of the most epic proportions ever seen on these Isles.kinabalu said:
How can No Deal crash-out followed by election be the wet dream of Corbyn and McDonnell and at the same time of Johnson and Cummings?Mysticrose said:By the way, I'm sure this will have been noted by others before.
Might the Corbyn-McDonnell microphone seizing be deliberate misinformation? Wouldn't it in fact suit them really rather neatly if Britain does disastrously crash out on Oct 31st? The shitshow which will follow will see the total annihilation of the Conservative party for a generation and Labour would inevitably rise in the polls. Especially neat when you consider that the Corbynites don't really like the EU anyway.
There. I've released my cynicism to the ether.
Which would suit Cummings admirably.0 -
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Is it clear what the EU/Ireland 'viable' option is if there is no deal? There are two ways of not having a backstop: no deal or a different deal.Scott_P said:0 -
0
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Yes there will be an extension to Art 50 but that will be to enable a WA deal outlined on or before 31 October. Parliament passes it. Election 2020. Crystal ball fails thereafter.kinabalu said:
Spring 2020 for that election. Otherwise flawless.Barnesian said:Some predictions
1. A50 will be extended again, covertly facilitated by Johnson.
2. There will be a general election in November.
3. The Tories will gain most seats but will be unable to form a government. The BXP will gain zero seats.
4. Labour will form a minority government with C&S from LDs and SNP.
5. Labour will then negotiate a permanent CU WDA which will not get the support of parliament.
6. There will then be a referendum with the permanent CU WDA versus Remain.
7. Labour will campaign for Remain.
8. Remain will win and we will revoke A50 in mid 2020.
9. The minority Labour government will turn out to be successful and transformative.
0 -
At this rate Boris Johnson is even going to ruin our stockpiling efforts!Scott_P said:0 -
Bollocks. The EU is more popular than ever. You're just projecting your own desires as usual.Byronic said:Here's another thing
*bangs table*
We're all fixated on how Brexit is going down, NOW (and for good reason. No Deal is a mildly terrifying prospect)
But how will it be seen in five or ten years, by the rest of Europe? I think it poses huge problems for the EU, however it turns out. Because....
Imagine Brexit is a surprising success (maybe take some acid first). The threat here is clear: if Britain can make Brexit work, then why shouldn't italy make Italexit work, or Hungary do a Hungquit? Especially as the EU tries to integrate even further? The EU could lose members quite quickly, in that scenario.
But, of course, Brexit is more likely to be bad news for Britain. Perhaps really bad news. And yet, even there it will be grim for the EU, too.
How so? Because, across Europe, other nations will look at the UK and think: "even the Brits - who were not in the euro, not in Schenghen, never fully committed, a rich powerful country - could not successfully exit the EU. They were, in effect, trapped: which means that me, us, my country (inside the euro etc) we are even more trapped".
Ancient nations do not like being trapped. No one wants to be in a room without a door. A bad Brexit will cause enormous psychological strains, in the EU, over time.0 -
https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1163035168678002688Chris said:At this rate Boris Johnson is even going to ruin our stockpiling efforts!
0 -
There is, actually, quite an obvious deal to be made here, if both sides dial it down.
A longer transition period. 3 years? 4? In which both sides endeavour to do their best to find a solution to the Irish Border issue, knowing that No Deal is a clear risk as the alternative.
Then, at the end of that, if they HAVEN'T found a solution, Britain will legislate a referendum for Northern Ireland, in which the Northern Irish themselves can choose which they prefer: to remain in the CU and SM, or to cut EU/Irish ties and allow a Border.
It is quite obvious Ulster would go with the former (in fact it would put Ulster in an enviable position, without all the risk of a proper Border poll and the anger that comes with).
There. I've just solved Brexit. Next.0 -
More Germans coming to the rescue...Byronic said:
Yes, the loss of Britannia was the clearest sign that Rome was in terminal decline. A rich, fertile province, full of tin and furs and game and fish, with one of the greatest Roman cities north of the Alps. A province so important the Romans built a fucking big wall to defend it? Yet they had to let it go. And it didn't help them: the decline accelerated.Richard_Tyndall said:
The whole Roman Empire was a failed state by the time they finally cut the ties with Britannia. Iindeed thst was part if the reason why the ties were cut.Foxy said:
Sounds just like the Roman Empire...Byronic said:
Of course. But, likesay, the EU is not Rome. Not even close. It is a fissile andshaky construct, with an inbuilt lack of democracy, a massive divide between east and west, a nasty and probably insoluble migrant problem, and a fucking terrible currency rotting away at the core like Soviet era control rods in a rundown nuclear power station.ydoethur said:
In 100 AD, the Roman Empire still had 1361 years to run. Indeed, on some measures it didn't end until 1806.Byronic said:
It will end, because greater, more significant events - war, disease, climate change, alien invasion, robot supremacy - will overtake it, and render the entire question irrelevant.ydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.
No doubt there were people who thought - for good reason, in, say 100AD - that the Roman Empire was eternal. They were wrong. Rome fell.
And the EU, whatever it is, is certainly not the Roman Empire straddling the world with a singular purpose.
Waiting for it to fall, .
Though after the Romans left, we did become a failed state.
So perhaps yiur comparison is more accurate than you would like.
An intriguing echo. We await Hengist and Horsa.0 -
"It's shite being a Remainer! We're the lowest of the low! The scum of the f*cking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash, that was shat into civilisation! Some people hate the Brexiteers, I don't! They're just w*nkers!Byronic said:
We, on the other hand, lost a referendum to w*nkers! Can't even find a decent campaign to lose a referendum to! We're ruled by effete arseholes! It's a shite state of affairs to be in, SeanT, and all the fresh air in the world won't make any f*cking difference!"1 -
Duhhh. The EU is more popular NOW. Of course. Dimwit.Streeter said:
Bollocks. The EU is more popular than ever. You're just projecting your own desires as usual.Byronic said:Here's another thing
*bangs table*
We're all fixated on how Brexit is going down, NOW (and for good reason. No Deal is a mildly terrifying prospect)
But how will it be seen in five or ten years, by the rest of Europe? I think it poses huge problems for the EU, however it turns out. Because....
Imagine Brexit is a surprising success (maybe take some acid first). The threat here is clear: if Britain can make Brexit work, then why shouldn't italy make Italexit work, or Hungary do a Hungquit? Especially as the EU tries to integrate even further? The EU could lose members quite quickly, in that scenario.
But, of course, Brexit is more likely to be bad news for Britain. Perhaps really bad news. And yet, even there it will be grim for the EU, too.
How so? Because, across Europe, other nations will look at the UK and think: "even the Brits - who were not in the euro, not in Schenghen, never fully committed, a rich powerful country - could not successfully exit the EU. They were, in effect, trapped: which means that me, us, my country (inside the euro etc) we are even more trapped".
Ancient nations do not like being trapped. No one wants to be in a room without a door. A bad Brexit will cause enormous psychological strains, in the EU, over time.
Who is gonna look at Brexit right now and think Ooh. I want that, it looks fab, let's do it here as well? This reaction, of improved support for the EU, was entirely predictable.
I'm positing the psychological dynamics 5-10 years hence. And I am right.0 -
But hardly Johnson. He wants to win the next election. So it seems odd that he plans to fight it in the exact circumstances that Corbyn supposedly wants.Mysticrose said:Oh, only if you believe as I do and almost every sane member of the human species (and probably much of the animal kingdom) that a No Deal Brexit will be a total and utter shitshow of the most epic proportions ever seen on these Isles.
Which would suit Cummings admirably.
Something not scanning with all this.
I think Johnson wants an election after he has delivered Brexit with a deal. And Corbyn wants an election before any Brexit has been delivered.0 -
pish and piffleSunil_Prasannan said:
"It's shite being a Remainer! We're the lowest of the low! The scum of the f*cking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash, that was shat into civilisation! Some people hate the Brexiteers, I don't! They're just w*nkers!Byronic said:
We, on the other hand, lost a referendum to w*nkers! Can't even find a decent campaign to lose a referendum to! We're ruled by effete arseholes! It's a shite state of affairs to be in, SeanT, and all the fresh air in the world won't make any f*cking difference!"0 -
With some, I grant youStreeter said:
Bollocks. The EU is more popular than ever. You're just projecting your own desires as usual.Byronic said:Here's another thing
*bangs table*
We're all fixated on how Brexit is going down, NOW (and for good reason. No Deal is a mildly terrifying prospect)
But how will it be seen in five or ten years, by the rest of Europe? I think it poses huge problems for the EU, however it turns out. Because....
Imagine Brexit is a surprising success (maybe take some acid first). The threat here is clear: if Britain can make Brexit work, then why shouldn't italy make Italexit work, or Hungary do a Hungquit? Especially as the EU tries to integrate even further? The EU could lose members quite quickly, in that scenario.
But, of course, Brexit is more likely to be bad news for Britain. Perhaps really bad news. And yet, even there it will be grim for the EU, too.
How so? Because, across Europe, other nations will look at the UK and think: "even the Brits - who were not in the euro, not in Schenghen, never fully committed, a rich powerful country - could not successfully exit the EU. They were, in effect, trapped: which means that me, us, my country (inside the euro etc) we are even more trapped".
Ancient nations do not like being trapped. No one wants to be in a room without a door. A bad Brexit will cause enormous psychological strains, in the EU, over time.0 -
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxAydoethur said:
The only way this ends - finally and definitively - is if the EU collapses. Otherwise we will continue to be hopelessly split between those who wish to leave/stay out and those who wish to remain/rejoin.DecrepitJohnL said:It is the last line that passes MPs by: Perhaps the biggest myth of all is that Brexit will be over on 31 October 2019. If only.
But for all its institutional weaknesses, corruption and maladministration, the odds of that happening are the same as the odds of England getting Steve Smith for a duck.0 -
Presumably as the wife of a U.K. citizen she can apply for a spousal visa followed by indefinite leave to remaintyson said:My Italian wife has just booked a trip to see her elderly mother in Italy at Xmas...we've only been living back in the UK for 2 years. My wife doesn't meet the criteria for settled status. She has been a UK taxpayer for 25 years. My wife's birthday is the 1st November...the day when her entitlement to live in the UK ends.
0 -
"Your message on PB horrifies me! Of course there is no possible connection between Byronic and SeanT. If you suggest such a thing anywhere it will be the end of our beautiful friendship. For Christ's sake lay off the idea that Byronic = SeanT. Just shut up about Byronic, Fuck You, Evelyn Waugh SeanT"Byronic said:
pish and piffleSunil_Prasannan said:
"It's shite being a Remainer! We're the lowest of the low! The scum of the f*cking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash, that was shat into civilisation! Some people hate the Brexiteers, I don't! They're just w*nkers!Byronic said:
We, on the other hand, lost a referendum to w*nkers! Can't even find a decent campaign to lose a referendum to! We're ruled by effete arseholes! It's a shite state of affairs to be in, SeanT, and all the fresh air in the world won't make any f*cking difference!"
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As an aside, this Epstein biz looks quite nasty for Prince Andrew.0
