Main news for me today has been the announcement of William Hill's plans to close 700 betting shops (out of an estate of some 2,280) with a possible 4,500 redundancies resulting. It seems possible Ladbroke/Coral will seek to close 1,000-1,200 shops and other players will follow suit.
This is all due to the reduction in FOBT maximum stakes to £2 which has had the broadly predicted fall in gaming revenue. Now, assuming this all comes to pass, the already struggling High Street will have another rush of empty properties if we see up to 3,000 betting shops close in the next 12 months.
I'm drawn to this from three angles - first, the impact on horse racing revenues and prize money as levy income is cut back. Will we see courses close or perhaps one of the all weather venues mothballed (do we really need six all weather tracks?).
Second, as mentioned, the impact on the High Street. We've had a new Iceland open in East Ham this week but it's a move from one site to a larger site. The impact on social and indeed anti-social behaviour of closing betting shops as well as on the economic health of the High Street in general is going to be interesting.
The third aspect impinges on the cultural and relates partly to the reaction to Boris's pronouncements about the guar tax and cuts to the nub of the cultural wars gist. On one side are those who believe we should have the right to choose for ourselves and the other side has the State taking a more interventionist role. The cultural climate has, I think, swung away from the more laissez-faire personal responsibility approach to a view that recognises the potential harm of excessive sugar consumption and indeed gambling and the impact they cause on individuals, families, communities and indeed society as a whole.
The price of permitting individuals to make bad life choices in terms of eating the wrong food and gambling is viewed through the prism of increased demands on NHS spending (at a time when hospitals themselves seem to be falling apart). To put it bluntly, we all end up paying for the bad life choices of individuals so why not prevent these choices as far as possible so the saved monies can go elsewhere? That line empowers the State to take actions which restrict the choice of individuals "for the greater good" (and that's the bit open to argument and interpretation).
As previously discussed, gambling is not "a bad choice". As this website testifies.
Just voted for Jo Swinson. Ed is currently the better candidate but Jo has much more upside to improve. Does that make sense?
Only with the luxury of time and a quiet political environment for her to grow into the job. I don’t think we have either.
Jo has the wider appeal but less depth. She's the riskier option. Do we want the chance of a real breakthrough with Jo (which might fall) or a solid core vote with Ed?
EDIT are we gamblers or conservatives? I know what l am!
Now is not the time for the 'core vote' strategy. even if that ever actually applied to the Lib Dems
The image of city folk telling people in the country how to run their lives is not Conservative either.
What about country folk, who also overwhelmingly support the hunt ban?
Also I echo the sentiment of Philip_Thompson and others in admiring Big_G's stand on this. If you have deeply-held principles, it's important to stand true to them rather than compromise them away, especially when what you'd get in return is something as dubious as Hunt's leadership skills.
I thought he was going to vote for Johnson? I can't think of anyone a 'man of principle' would be less likely to vote for!
You thought wrongly. Upto this morning my wife and I were voting Hunt and if he had not made the crass comments on hunting his votes would be in the post tonight from both of us
My daughter was horified as are all the family at the thought of resurrecting fox hunting and we cannot vote for Hunt. I do not know even if my wife will vote at all and I may vote Boris as I have a vote but it would be not be in any way an easy thing to do and I will decide over the weekend
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
Main news for me today has been the announcement of William Hill's plans to close 700 betting shops (out of an estate of some 2,280) with a possible 4,500 redundancies resulting. It seems possible Ladbroke/Coral will seek to close 1,000-1,200 shops and other players will follow suit.
This is all due to the reduction in FOBT maximum stakes to £2 which has had the broadly predicted fall in gaming revenue. Now, assuming this all comes to pass, the already struggling High Street will have another rush of empty properties if we see up to 3,000 betting shops close in the next 12 months.
I'm drawn to this from three angles - first, the impact on horse racing revenues and prize money as levy income is cut back. Will we see courses close or perhaps one of the all weather venues mothballed (do we really need six all weather tracks?).
Second, as mentioned, the impact on the High Street. We've had a new Iceland open in East Ham this week but it's a move from one site to a larger site. The impact on social and indeed anti-social behaviour of closing betting shops as well as on the economic health of the High Street in general is going to be interesting.
The third aspect impinges on the cultural and relates partly to the reaction to Boris's pronouncements about the guar tax and cuts to the nub of the cultural wars gist. On one side are those who believe we should have the right to choose for ourselves and the other side has the State taking a more interventionist role. The cultural climate has, I think, swung away from the more laissez-faire personal responsibility approach to a view that recognises the potential harm of excessive sugar consumption and indeed gambling and the impact they cause on individuals, families, communities and indeed society as a whole.
The price of permitting individuals to make bad life choices in terms of eating the wrong food and gambling is viewed through the prism of increased demands on NHS spending (at a time when hospitals themselves seem to be falling apart). To put it bluntly, we all end up paying for the bad life choices of individuals so why not prevent these choices as far as possible so the saved monies can go elsewhere? That line empowers the State to take actions which restrict the choice of individuals "for the greater good" (and that's the bit open to argument and interpretation).
As previously discussed, gambling is not "a bad choice". As this website testifies.
Gambling is not a bad choice if done properly.
FOBT gambling abuse is.
What you are saying is like saying drugs are not a bad choice because ibuprofen and aspirin can help you so there's nothing wrong with opioid abuse.
Main news for me today has been the announcement of William Hill's plans to close 700 betting shops (out of an estate of some 2,280) with a possible 4,500 redundancies resulting. It seems possible Ladbroke/Coral will seek to close 1,000-1,200 shops and other players will follow suit.
This is all due to the reduction in FOBT maximum stakes to £2 which has had the broadly predicted fall in gaming revenue. Now, assuming this all comes to pass, the already struggling High Street will have another rush of empty properties if we see up to 3,000 betting shops close in the next 12 months.
I'm drawn to this from three angles - first, the impact on horse racing revenues and prize money as levy income is cut back. Will we see courses close or perhaps one of the all weather venues mothballed (do we really need six all weather tracks?).
Second, as mentioned, the impact on the High Street. We've had a new Iceland open in East Ham this week but it's a move from one site to a larger site. The impact on social and indeed anti-social behaviour of closing betting shops as well as on the economic health of the High Street in general is going to be interesting.
The third aspect impinges on the cultural and relates partly to the reaction to Boris's pronouncements about the guar tax and cuts to the nub of the cultural wars gist. On one side are those who believe we should have the right to choose for ourselves and the other side has the State taking a more interventionist role. The cultural climate has, I think, swung away from the more laissez-faire personal responsibility approach to a view that recognises the potential harm of excessive sugar consumption and indeed gambling and the impact they cause on individuals, families, communities and indeed society as a whole.
The price of permitting individuals to make bad life choices in terms of eating the wrong food and gambling is viewed through the prism of increased demands on NHS spending (at a time when hospitals themselves seem to be falling apart). To put it bluntly, we all end up paying for the bad life choices of individuals so why not prevent these choices as far as possible so the saved monies can go elsewhere? That line empowers the State to take actions which restrict the choice of individuals "for the greater good" (and that's the bit open to argument and interpretation).
It looks like the future of the high street is going to be luxury flats, presumably for millionaires to use as piggy banks. Many of them will be unoccupied most of the time, unless the government has the balls to do something about it.
The image of city folk telling people in the country how to run their lives is not Conservative either.
What about country folk, who also overwhelmingly support the hunt ban?
Also I echo the sentiment of Philip_Thompson and others in admiring Big_G's stand on this. If you have deeply-held principles, it's important to stand true to them rather than compromise them away, especially when what you'd get in return is something as dubious as Hunt's leadership skills.
I thought he was going to vote for Johnson? I can't think of anyone a 'man of principle' would be less likely to vote for!
You thought wrongly. Upto this morning my wife and I were voting Hunt and if he had not made the crass comments on hunting his votes would be in the post tonight from both of us
My daughter was horified as are all the family at the thought of resurrecting fox hunting and we cannot vote for Hunt. I do not know even if my wife will vote at all and I may vote Boris as I have a vote but it would be not be in any way an easy thing to do and I will decide over the weekend
Whilst you deliberate, you may wish to investigate what the differences between Hunt's stance and Boris's stance on foxhunting actually are. IIUC they are identical. But Hunt did you the courtesy of answering honestly and Boris pointedly refused to confirm that he would not vote to repeal (he said he wasn't going to "prioritise a vote", which is not the same thing).
Incidentally, are there hustings near you? You might be able to ask him directly.
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
I thought he had been asked by Peston and he had said it was not an issue.
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
But apparently he has advocated foxhunting in London!
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
Did you read what Hunt said? If...if...if...
Same as any decent Tory leadership candidate.
There is nothing decent in fox hunting and yes I did read Hunts transcript
We will disagree on this and that is perfectly normal
I find the antics of the Brexit MEPs appalling ,Widdecombe is just a joke, and the LibDems with their protest are almost as bad. The whole thing sometimes makes me ashamed to admit I am British, these people do not represent me. The Brexit MEPs take their salaries, pensions, expenses etc, and proceed to just take the piss. Yuk.
Main news for me today has been the announcement of William Hill's plans to close 700 betting shops (out of an estate of some 2,280) with a possible 4,500 redundancies resulting. It seems possible Ladbroke/Coral will seek to close 1,000-1,200 shops and other players will follow suit.
This is all due to the reduction in FOBT maximum stakes to £2 which has had the broadly predicted fall in gaming revenue. Now, assuming this all comes to pass, the already struggling High Street will have another rush of empty properties if we see up to 3,000 betting shops close in the next 12 months.
I'm drawn to this from three angles - first, the impact on horse racing revenues and prize money as levy income is cut back. Will we see courses close or perhaps one of the all weather venues mothballed (do we really need six all weather tracks?).
Second, as mentioned, the impact on the High Street. We've had a new Iceland open in East Ham this week but it's a move from one site to a larger site. The impact on social and indeed anti-social behaviour of closing betting shops as well as on the economic health of the High Street in general is going to be interesting.
The third aspect impinges on the cultural and relates partly to the reaction to Boris's pronouncements about the guar tax and cuts to the nub of the cultural wars gist. On one side are those who believe we should have the right to choose for ourselves and the other side has the State taking a more interventionist role. The cultural climate has, I think, swung away from the more laissez-faire personal responsibility approach to a view that recognises the potential harm of excessive sugar consumption and indeed gambling and the impact they cause on individuals, families, communities and indeed society as a whole.
The price of permitting individuals to make bad life choices in terms of eating the wrong food and gambling is viewed through the prism of increased demands on NHS spending (at a time when hospitals themselves seem to be falling apart). To put it bluntly, we all end up paying for the bad life choices of individuals so why not prevent these choices as far as possible so the saved monies can go elsewhere? That line empowers the State to take actions which restrict the choice of individuals "for the greater good" (and that's the bit open to argument and interpretation).
As previously discussed, gambling is not "a bad choice". As this website testifies.
Gambling is not a bad choice if done properly.
FOBT gambling abuse is.
What you are saying is like saying drugs are not a bad choice because ibuprofen and aspirin can help you so there's nothing wrong with opioid abuse.
Oh come on what I think he is saying is gambling within your means is not a bad choice but irresponsible gambling is.
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
But apparently he has advocated foxhunting in London!
In June 2013 when it was a live subject but that was then and it is now settled, at least until Hunt made his comments yesterday. If Boris endorses it then neither get my vote
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
Did you read what Hunt said? If...if...if...
Same as any decent Tory leadership candidate.
There is nothing decent in fox hunting and yes I did read Hunts transcript
We will disagree on this and that is perfectly normal
Big G you're having a bit of a shocker here.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
Widdecombe is a bit weird. She certainly can and does say weird stuff.
I don't think that in what she said there's much to object to.
She's not really a serious politician any more. I'd presume she knows that, but equally she's an interesting voice.
Lammy though is a serious politician, or at least he claims to be. He's been touted as the future occupant of many fine roles after all. Mainly by himself though, it has to be said.
I think he's making just a ridiculously cheap attempt at a point, and totally failing. What's really baffling is that's most of what he does, but he's not entirely stupid. If he commented 90% less often he'd do himself a favour.
3% chance he's next Labour leader? I think not.
I've recently come round to the view that Long-Bailey has that sown up. I've also come round to the view that she's an interesting politician - she's definitely learning.
The image of city folk telling people in the country how to run their lives is not Conservative either.
What about country folk, who also overwhelmingly support the hunt ban?
Also I echo the sentiment of Philip_Thompson and others in admiring Big_G's stand on this. If you have deeply-held principles, it's important to stand true to them rather than compromise them away, especially when what you'd get in return is something as dubious as Hunt's leadership skills.
I thought he was going to vote for Johnson? I can't think of anyone a 'man of principle' would be less likely to vote for!
You thought wrongly. Upto this morning my wife and I were voting Hunt and if he had not made the crass comments on hunting his votes would be in the post tonight from both of us
My daughter was horified as are all the family at the thought of resurrecting fox hunting and we cannot vote for Hunt. I do not know even if my wife will vote at all and I may vote Boris as I have a vote but it would be not be in any way an easy thing to do and I will decide over the weekend
Whilst you deliberate, you may wish to investigate what the differences between Hunt's stance and Boris's stance on foxhunting actually are. IIUC they are identical. But Hunt did you the courtesy of answering honestly and Boris pointedly refused to confirm that he would not vote to repeal (he said he wasn't going to "prioritise a vote", which is not the same thing).
Incidentally, are there hustings near you? You might be able to ask him directly.
I received an invitation from my local Am's PA last week to meet Boris in person last friday but I was unable to attend, not due to any reason to avoid him, just I could not go
Main news for me today has been the announcement of William Hill's plans to close 700 betting shops (out of an estate of some 2,280) with a possible 4,500 redundancies resulting. It seems possible Ladbroke/Coral will seek to close 1,000-1,200 shops and other players will follow suit.
This is all due to the reduction in FOBT maximum stakes to £2 which has had the broadly predicted fall in gaming revenue. Now, assuming this all comes to pass, the already struggling High Street will have another rush of empty properties if we see up to 3,000 betting shops close in the next 12 months.
I'm drawn to this from three angles - first, the impact on horse racing revenues and prize money as levy income is cut back. Will we see courses close or perhaps one of the all weather venues mothballed (do we really need six all weather tracks?).
Second [snip]
The third aspect [snip]
The price of permitting individuals to make bad life choices in terms of eating the wrong food and gambling is viewed through the prism of increased demands on NHS spending (at a time when hospitals themselves seem to be falling apart). To put it bluntly, we all end up paying for the bad life choices of individuals so why not prevent these choices as far as possible so the saved monies can go elsewhere? That line empowers the State to take actions which restrict the choice of individuals "for the greater good" (and that's the bit open to argument and interpretation).
As previously discussed, gambling is not "a bad choice". As this website testifies.
Gambling is not a bad choice if done properly.
FOBT gambling abuse is.
What you are saying is like saying drugs are not a bad choice because ibuprofen and aspirin can help you so there's nothing wrong with opioid abuse.
Fair enough. Consider it modified to "Gambling is not in and of itself a bad choice, although like any other human activity it can be abused".
Oh come on what I think he is saying is gambling within your means is not a bad choice but irresponsible gambling is.
He is comparing this website to FOBTs. That is inappropriate IMHO.
This website is about responsible gambling. Bookmakers relying upon FOBTs to survive would be like a chemist's relying upon OTC opioids available without prescription to survive.
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
But apparently he has advocated foxhunting in London!
In June 2013 when it was a live subject but that was then and it is now settled, at least until Hunt made his comments yesterday. If Boris endorses it then neither get my vote
It became a live issue again in 2017 courtesy of Theresa May.
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't. .
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
Did you read what Hunt said? If...if...if...
Same as any decent Tory leadership candidate.
There is nothing decent in fox hunting and yes I did read Hunts transcript
We will disagree on this and that is perfectly normal
Big G you're having a bit of a shocker here.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh come on what I think he is saying is gambling within your means is not a bad choice but irresponsible gambling is.
He is comparing this website to FOBTs. That is inappropriate IMHO.
This website is about responsible gambling. Bookmakers relying upon FOBTs to survive would be like a chemist's relying upon OTC opioids available without prescription to survive.
This website is about profitable gambling! In the hardest markets to price, with no liquidity, and where you need to tie up your funds for years.
It's the gambling world's equivalent of extreme ironing.
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't.
Boris is an incompetent who breaks promises at will, whose ambition and ego is the sun around which everything else revolves. He was an utter failure as a Cabinet minister and there's no reason to think he'll be other than horrendous as PM.
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
Sadly Big_G, it feels like you have been softening your line on Boris for weeks and this is just the excuse you need to vote for him.
How many times have you posted on here that you and Mrs G would never vote for him?... and yet now you are going to.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
But apparently he has advocated foxhunting in London!
In June 2013 when it was a live subject but that was then and it is now settled, at least until Hunt made his comments yesterday. If Boris endorses it then neither get my vote
It became a live issue again in 2017 courtesy of Theresa May.
As previously discussed, gambling is not "a bad choice". As this website testifies.
As there are many kinds of drinkers, so there are many kinds of gamblers. I was, as you might have been aware, talking about gambling as addictive, compulsive, damaging behaviour.
What has happened in recent times is liberal attitudes towards gambling have been replaced by a new quasi-puritan line. Perhaps this has been the result of a proliferation of betting shops in High Streets and the social consequences of such venues as meeting places despite the "no play no stay" policies and security.
Perhaps more coverage illustrating the impact of compulsive gambling has played a part. As you say, this site indulges in betting but it's a world away from most gamblers. As an example, I play blackjack but only when I'm in Vegas never in the UK, it's just not the same.
What you are saying is like saying drugs are not a bad choice because ibuprofen and aspirin can help you so there's nothing wrong with opioid abuse.
Oh come on what I think he is saying is gambling within your means is not a bad choice but irresponsible gambling is.
No - we gamble because we think we know better than the market as a whole (Betfair) or the price setters at the bookies (Shadsy).
FOBT is pure gambling - it's will I win this time or not based on a random number generator.... worse it's not even a fruit machine which has a pattern you could learn to step in and scoop the jackpot, it's based on a random number generator designed to return x% of the money put in it where x is less than 100%.
To be blunt it's only purpose was for money laundry and while the reduction to £2 is a fine measure the law should require receipts that state what was put in and what was returned not separate receipts where the receipt for the amount waged could be easily "lost".
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Just put the latest YouGov Scotland sub-sample through Baxter, and Jo Swinson’s East Dunbartonshire got:
Lib Dem 44% SNP 37% Brx 8% Grn 6% Con 4% Lab 1%
While large doses of salt are needed, it is astonishing to think that both Con and Lab have held this area quite recently, and both are now in lost deposit territory.
More likely an illustration of why UNS no longer works as a model.
On the sort of swings we are seeing now, there will likely be seats where the projected vote share is actually negative. Even Corbyn won’t go that low.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Doesn’t really matter. Having a majority of MPs who might support repeal looks increasingly unlikely. And even if such arrived, it would require a huge expense of political capital and considerable political damage for such a government to push this through, and any sensible government would keep it on the back burner with the right time for the free vote never quite arriving.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
What's annoyed me is NOT the fact Boris got heckled at Polhill Garden Centre (decent breakfast, nice Sunday lunch) but the fact the Mail is asking its readers to snitch on the hecklers who are simply using their rights in a free society to heckle a politician making a political visit to a garden centre.
Now, what do you suppose would happen if one of the Mail's army of snitches grasses up a garden centre heckler? You guessed it - the Mail would do a hatchet job on the poor person or people highlighting the slightest indiscretion all because they had the temerity not to strew rose petals at the feet of Boris or sigh in reverential silence as he passed by.
So much for the right to protest or to have an opinion but heckle Corbyn and the Mail will laud you as a hero.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Doesn’t really matter. Having a majority of MPs who might support repeal looks increasingly unlikely. And even if such arrived, it would require a huge expense of political capital and considerable political damage for such a government to push this through, and any sensible government would keep it on the back burner with the right time for the free vote never quite arriving.
Of course. And Hunt said no more than that.
I wish he'd said nothing but a trap was set and he fell into it.
Very bad politics from him. Then again the alternative is Boris
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It is, but there are plenty Conservatives who are strongly anti hunting. And almost no-one who isn't a Conservative* supports hunting. There isn't a lot of mileage in coming out with a pro hunting position, as Jeremy Hunt has just discovered.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
From someone else who is out of step with their Party on the key issue of the day, it's your choice. You don't have to work for or help the Party - it's a voluntary organisation. Spend more time with your good lady and the assorted grandchildren. The party will sink or swim either way.
I've stopped doing voluntary work for the LDs for now - I attended the hustings because I wanted to hear what Jo and Ed had to say. I'm still a member and I have a vote but that's as far as I am at the moment.
Mrs Stodge has more of my time - she seems to prefer it and I do too.
What's annoyed me is NOT the fact Boris got heckled at Polhill Garden Centre (decent breakfast, nice Sunday lunch) but the fact the Mail is asking its readers to snitch on the hecklers who are simply using their rights in a free society to heckle a politician making a political visit to a garden centre.
Now, what do you suppose would happen if one of the Mail's army of snitches grasses up a garden centre heckler? You guessed it - the Mail would do a hatchet job on the poor person or people highlighting the slightest indiscretion all because they had the temerity not to strew rose petals at the feet of Boris or sigh in reverential silence as he passed by.
So much for the right to protest or to have an opinion but heckle Corbyn and the Mail will laud you as a hero.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
From someone else who is out of step with their Party on the key issue of the day, it's your choice. You don't have to work for or help the Party - it's a voluntary organisation. Spend more time with your good lady and the assorted grandchildren. The party will sink or swim either way.
I've stopped doing voluntary work for the LDs for now - I attended the hustings because I wanted to hear what Jo and Ed had to say. I'm still a member and I have a vote but that's as far as I am at the moment.
Mrs Stodge has more of my time - she seems to prefer it and I do too.
To be honest you have hit the nail on the head
Hunt has upset my whole family with making hunting an issue and hence he lost our votes
It is 50 50 whether either of us vote at all. It is only 2 votes after all
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It is, but there are plenty Conservatives who are strongly anti hunting. And almost no-one who isn't a Conservative* supports hunting. There isn't a lot of mileage in coming out with a pro hunting position, as Jeremy Hunt has just discovered.
* Plus maybe Brexit Party if it gets traction.
Of course but Big G seems to feel very very strongly about it. It is totemic.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
From someone else who is out of step with their Party on the key issue of the day, it's your choice. You don't have to work for or help the Party - it's a voluntary organisation. Spend more time with your good lady and the assorted grandchildren. The party will sink or swim either way.
I've stopped doing voluntary work for the LDs for now - I attended the hustings because I wanted to hear what Jo and Ed had to say. I'm still a member and I have a vote but that's as far as I am at the moment.
Mrs Stodge has more of my time - she seems to prefer it and I do too.
To be honest you have hit the nail on the head
Hunt has upset my whole family with making hunting an issue and hence he lost our votes
It is 50 50 whether either of us vote at all. It is only 2 votes after all
I very much share your views re- foxhunting, but it is surely obvious that Boris is a far more malign and disreputable human being than Hunt - in ways which extend far beyond politics.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Cameron even tried to have a vote on it in 2015 and only dropped it because of opposition from the SNP
The idea that this is some sort of dead issue that Hunt has just resurrected out of the blue is ridiculous. Even if it does cause BigG to change all his other views about the suitability of the candidates as a result (but not apparently sufficient to cause him to look elsewhere for a vote at a General Election)
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
From someone else who is out of step with their Party on the key issue of the day, it's your choice. You don't have to work for or help the Party - it's a voluntary organisation. Spend more time with your good lady and the assorted grandchildren. The party will sink or swim either way.
I've stopped doing voluntary work for the LDs for now - I attended the hustings because I wanted to hear what Jo and Ed had to say. I'm still a member and I have a vote but that's as far as I am at the moment.
Mrs Stodge has more of my time - she seems to prefer it and I do too.
To be honest you have hit the nail on the head
Hunt has upset my whole family with making hunting an issue and hence he lost our votes
It is 50 50 whether either of us vote at all. It is only 2 votes after all
I very much share your views re- foxhunting, but it is surely obvious that Boris is a far more malign and disreputable human being than Hunt - in ways which extend far beyond politics.
Hunt has lost my vote.
I have not decided on Boris and will give it much thought this weekend
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
I don't think Cameron went any further than offering a free vote on hunting. Hunt went further than that saying he would vote for the ban to be overturned.
It should not be. Hunting is wrong and the world has moved on.
It's good to know that with Iran on the brink of war, Hong Kong on the brink of a failed revolution, Donald Trump getting crazier by the minute, Brexit as intractable as ever, the economy struggling and national services falling apart through lack of funding:
There's so little going on we can spend a whole day talking about fox hunting.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Why are people getting so worked up by this? Dispute these facts
Hunt was ambushed into merely stating his party’s policy in every GE except 2010. That’s hardly an ambush of clear margins between him and other candidates What’s the morality and ethical benchmark. People more upset by his fox view than his abortion view? Those who insist fox hunting cruel, what’s their view of shooting, fishing? In fact Fox hunting not nearly on the scale of cruelty and barbarity as the horse racing industry, is it? Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Cameron even tried to have a vote on it in 2015 and only dropped it because of opposition from the SNP
The idea that this is some sort of dead issue that Hunt has just resurrected out of the blue is ridiculous. Even if it does cause BigG to change all his other views about the suitability of the candidates as a result (but not apparently sufficient to cause him to look elsewhere for a vote at a General Election)
I'm pretty sure Big G, like myself, was disappointed with May making it an issue in 2017.
The idea it should be a priority now is absurd. It is a non issue and we should move on.
It's good to know that with Iran on the brink of war, Hong Kong on the brink of a failed revolution, Donald Trump getting crazier by the minute, Brexit as intractable as ever, the economy struggling and national services falling apart through lack of funding:
There's so little going on we can spend a whole day talking about fox hunting.
Nice one, Jeremy.
Well that’s the U.K. for you when all around you is falling apart we will talk about the weather or anything else because we no longer can talk about the real issues without upsetting some arsholes sensibilities.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Cameron even tried to have a vote on it in 2015 and only dropped it because of opposition from the SNP
The idea that this is some sort of dead issue that Hunt has just resurrected out of the blue is ridiculous. Even if it does cause BigG to change all his other views about the suitability of the candidates as a result (but not apparently sufficient to cause him to look elsewhere for a vote at a General Election)
I'm pretty sure Big G, like myself, was disappointed with May making it an issue in 2017.
The idea it should be a priority now is absurd. It is a non issue and we should move on.
But nobody has said it should be a priority! Except for those who have interpreted some rather bland words from Hunt (when prompted by a newspaper that supports his opponent) that are no different than any other spoken by recent Tory leaders and in line with existing Tory party policy. (Although maybe putting it in front of Brexit in the queue might be a good idea for the country )
And yes I think it is rather foolish that he let it be reported the way it has, but in a newspaper interview a newspaper will try to find a way to twist any words in the direction that they want (much easier to shut down a question in a TV interview, although May couldn't even manage that).
It's good to know that with Iran on the brink of war, Hong Kong on the brink of a failed revolution, Donald Trump getting crazier by the minute, Brexit as intractable as ever, the economy struggling and national services falling apart through lack of funding:
There's so little going on we can spend a whole day talking about fox hunting.
Nice one, Jeremy.
Well that’s the U.K. for you when all around you is falling apart we will talk about the weather or anything else because we no longer can talk about the real issues without upsetting some arsholes sensibilities.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
I don't think Cameron went any further than offering a free vote on hunting. Hunt went further than that saying he would vote for the ban to be overturned..
It should not be. Hunting is wrong and the world has moved on.
It's good to know that with Iran on the brink of war, Hong Kong on the brink of a failed revolution, Donald Trump getting crazier by the minute, Brexit as intractable as ever, the economy struggling and national services falling apart through lack of funding:
There's so little going on we can spend a whole day talking about fox hunting.
Nice one, Jeremy.
Well that’s the U.K. for you when all around you is falling apart we will talk about the weather or anything else because we no longer can talk about the real issues without upsetting some arsholes sensibilities.
It's displacement activity. A.k.a Dead Cat. Talking about what is almost certainly a non-issue stops discussion about the significant issues of the day. How near ARE we to war with Iran? Or China. Both countries have very good reason to distrust us.
Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
Not all animals. My stick insect is quite passive.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Why are people getting so worked up by this? Dispute these facts
Hunt was ambushed into merely stating his party’s policy in every GE except 2010. That’s hardly an ambush of clear margins between him and other candidates What’s the morality and ethical benchmark. People more upset by his fox view than his abortion view? Those who insist fox hunting cruel, what’s their view of shooting, fishing? In fact Fox hunting not nearly on the scale of cruelty and barbarity as the horse racing industry, is it? Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Why are people getting so worked up by this? Dispute these facts
Hunt was ambushed into merely stating his party’s policy in every GE except 2010. That’s hardly an ambush of clear margins between him and other candidates What’s the morality and ethical benchmark. People more upset by his fox view than his abortion view? Those who insist fox hunting cruel, what’s their view of shooting, fishing? In fact Fox hunting not nearly on the scale of cruelty and barbarity as the horse racing industry, is it? Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
He should have avoided the question.
You're right, but had he avoiding the question i'm sure that the Telegraph would have found some way to twist the story to make him sound defensive on the issue, and probably force him into publicly clarifying his position. And the effect would have ended up the same.
It's good to know that with Iran on the brink of war, Hong Kong on the brink of a failed revolution, Donald Trump getting crazier by the minute, Brexit as intractable as ever, the economy struggling and national services falling apart through lack of funding:
There's so little going on we can spend a whole day talking about fox hunting.
Nice one, Jeremy.
Well that’s the U.K. for you when all around you is falling apart we will talk about the weather or anything else because we no longer can talk about the real issues without upsetting some arsholes sensibilities.
It's displacement activity. A.k.a Dead Cat. Talking about what is almost certainly a non-issue stops discussion about the significant issues of the day. How near ARE we to war with Iran? Or China. Both countries have very good reason to distrust us.
What is sad is that when I step out into the ‘real world’ out there and, after a debate about east Enders or people’s latest medical problems, ask what they think about what’s going on in Hong Kong they look at me as if I’m deranged.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Why are people getting so worked up by this? Dispute these facts
Hunt was ambushed into merely stating his party’s policy in every GE except 2010. That’s hardly an ambush of clear margins between him and other candidates What’s the morality and ethical benchmark. People more upset by his fox view than his abortion view? Those who insist fox hunting cruel, what’s their view of shooting, fishing? In fact Fox hunting not nearly on the scale of cruelty and barbarity as the horse racing industry, is it? Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
He should have avoided the question.
Don't we want politicians to answer questions honestly?
Time for one of my quick digests of the current European polling:
First Germany and after a few polls showing the CDU/CSU regaining the lead from the Greens, the latest Infratest poll has the Greens on 26%, the Union on 25%, the SDP and AfD on 13% and both FDP and Linke on 8%.
That's identical 12.5% swings from both SPD and CDU/CSU to Green since the last election and that would fundamentally reshape the Bundestag.
Over to Latvia and the New Unity Party of Prime Minister Karins has made big advances and is now a clear second behind opposition leaders Harmony (aka the Social Democrats). New Unity took a mauling at the last election losing two thirds of its seats but has staged a spectacular comeback since Karins came (remind you of anyone?) through to become Prime Minister in January.
In Spain, the governing PSOE party has now reached 40% in a poll and has a massive 24 point lead over Citizens on 16% with PP on 14% and UP on 13%.
In Finland, the Finns Party leads on 20% with the National Coalition on 19%, the Social Democrats on 17% and the Greens moving up to 14%. Finland voted in April and the current Government is broadly centre to centre-left headed by the Social Democrats.
Finally, to Greece, which votes on Sunday and there's little to report. The polls continue to show a healthy lead for New Democracy - 13 points (40-27) with Prorata and 11 points (39-28) with Alco. Either way, it's hard to see anything other than a convincing New Democracy win on Sunday.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Why are people getting so worked up by this? Dispute these facts
Hunt was ambushed into merely stating his party’s policy in every GE except 2010. That’s hardly an ambush of clear margins between him and other candidates What’s the morality and ethical benchmark. People more upset by his fox view than his abortion view? Those who insist fox hunting cruel, what’s their view of shooting, fishing? In fact Fox hunting not nearly on the scale of cruelty and barbarity as the horse racing industry, is it? Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
He should have avoided the question.
You're right, but had he avoiding the question i'm sure that the Telegraph would have found some way to twist the story to make him sound defensive on the issue, and probably force him into publicly clarifying his position. And the effect would have ended up the same.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It is, but there are plenty Conservatives who are strongly anti hunting. And almost no-one who isn't a Conservative* supports hunting. There isn't a lot of mileage in coming out with a pro hunting position, as Jeremy Hunt has just discovered.
* Plus maybe Brexit Party if it gets traction.
Of course but Big G seems to feel very very strongly about it. It is totemic.
I don't think it is totemic. I know a number of strong Conservative supporters who are adamantly opposed to fox hunting. IIRC Anne Widdicombe discussed up thread was one of them.
I would - marginally - support allowing fox hunting on liberal grounds and the balance of the rights of people to do what they want without me saying, no you can't, and the rights of the fox not to be torn to pieces. That I think they are unspeakable and uneatable is neither here nor there. But I'm not going to head to the barricades.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It's been a non issue for a long time. Cameron didn't campaign to get elected pledging to vote to repeal the ban AFAIK.
Oh yes he did.
Yep - it's been Tory party policy in both 2015 and 2017...
I mean as we are seeing here it's a sure fire vote loser but that is what it has been.
Why are people getting so worked up by this? Dispute these facts
Hunt was ambushed into merely stating his party’s policy in every GE except 2010. That’s hardly an ambush of clear margins between him and other candidates What’s the morality and ethical benchmark. People more upset by his fox view than his abortion view? Those who insist fox hunting cruel, what’s their view of shooting, fishing? In fact Fox hunting not nearly on the scale of cruelty and barbarity as the horse racing industry, is it? Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
He should have avoided the question.
Don't we want politicians to answer questions honestly?
It's politics 1.01 - don't walk into an obvious trap. We want honesty but he could have been honest and stopped short of punching himself in the face.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
He’s a dribbling old fart.
The Conservatives have stood on a pro-Repeal platform for the last four General Elections.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It is, but there are plenty Conservatives who are strongly anti hunting. And almost no-one who isn't a Conservative* supports hunting. There isn't a lot of mileage in coming out with a pro hunting position, as Jeremy Hunt has just discovered.
* Plus maybe Brexit Party if it gets traction.
Of course but Big G seems to feel very very strongly about it. It is totemic.
I don't think it is totemic. I know a number of strong Conservative supporters who are adamantly opposed to fox hunting. IIRC Anne Widdicombe discussed up thread was one of them.
I would - marginally - support allowing fox hunting on liberal grounds and the balance of the rights of people to do what they want without me saying, no you can't, and the rights of the fox not to be torn to pieces. That I think they are unspeakable and uneatable is neither here nor there. But I'm not going to head to the barricades.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
He’s a dribbling old fart.
The Conservatives have stood on a pro-Repeal platform for the last four General Elections.
But I do try to respect people. Your comment is unnecessary
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
He’s a dribbling old fart.
The Conservatives have stood on a pro-Repeal platform for the last four General Elections.
But I do try to respect people. Your comment is unnecessary
Hard to respect someone as flip-floppy as you with such a desperate need to be liked.
Mr. NorthWales, I'd just say that Hunt's comments (foolish as they were) only apply if the Conservatives have a majority. And they don't. .
I dont disagree with any of that but Hunt has lost my vote
.
What's happened to your principles?
Hunting - and my wife may not vote. Neither of us will vote for Hunt. My daughter is horrified at Hunts stance and it goes through my family.
It is unfair to suggest I am seeking to vote for Boris. I stand by everything I have said about him but I either vote Boris or abstain. If I do vote Boris it will not be manufactured it is because Hunt crossed the line for me
You cannot blame Hunt if you vote for Boris. You have three choices: vote for Boris, vote for Hunt, or not vote. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to take any action. To say "it's Hunt's fault I'm voting for Boris!" is to abandon personal responsibility.
Hunt has disqualified himself so it is a choice Boris or void
Would it be mean of me to point out that you don't know what Boris's position is on foxhunting either? Or do you in fact know it (in which case I apologize).
I am waiting to hear Boris response over the weekend but I cannot think he would fall into the trap of endorsing Hunts comments as that could see it included in a manifesto promise by either winner
Did you read what Hunt said? If...if...if...
Same as any decent Tory leadership candidate.
There is nothing decent in fox hunting and yes I did read Hunts transcript
We will disagree on this and that is perfectly normal
Big G you're having a bit of a shocker here.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
Jeremy Hunt has a lot of the hunting crowd in his local party and amongst his voters. You can't live in this part of the country and be unaware of it. He's in a cleft stick on this one.
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
It takes a certain amount of something for me to be happy to lose £1000 and want Boris to be PM but between that statement and fox hunting I'm happy that Hunt will lose this election...
Just caught that Widdecombe speech at the EP. A tough watch. Not funny unless you are the sort of person who likes to laugh at dancing bears. I hope something can be done that helps her without infringing her civil liberties.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
He’s a dribbling old fart.
The Conservatives have stood on a pro-Repeal platform for the last four General Elections.
But I do try to respect people. Your comment is unnecessary
Hard to respect someone as flip-floppy as you with such a desperate need to be liked.
It takes more than just minding your Ps and Qs.
I will stand fair and square against hunting and Hunt exposed his desire to bring it back on the agenda so no vote from me
I have not decided whether to void my ballot but will do so shortly
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
It is, but there are plenty Conservatives who are strongly anti hunting. And almost no-one who isn't a Conservative* supports hunting. There isn't a lot of mileage in coming out with a pro hunting position, as Jeremy Hunt has just discovered.
* Plus maybe Brexit Party if it gets traction.
Of course but Big G seems to feel very very strongly about it. It is totemic.
I don't think it is totemic. I know a number of strong Conservative supporters who are adamantly opposed to fox hunting. IIRC Anne Widdicombe discussed up thread was one of them.
I would - marginally - support allowing fox hunting on liberal grounds and the balance of the rights of people to do what they want without me saying, no you can't, and the rights of the fox not to be torn to pieces. That I think they are unspeakable and uneatable is neither here nor there. But I'm not going to head to the barricades.
Which is a consistent position.
Others have said it is totemic.
Sorry for being contrary, but unless we are out and out libertarians, allowing free reign to hard drugs, paedophilia, or whatever, we are all drawing lines that are likely to be arbitrary, where we accept this thing but not that thing, for reasons that aren't fully consistent.
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
He has a Chinese wife and that is the way in China as was explained to us by our guides on our visit to Beijing a few years ago
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
He’s a dribbling old fart.
The Conservatives have stood on a pro-Repeal platform for the last four General Elections.
But I do try to respect people. Your comment is unnecessary
Hard to respect someone as flip-floppy as you with such a desperate need to be liked.
It takes more than just minding your Ps and Qs.
I will stand fair and square against hunting and Hunt exposed his desire to bring it back on the agenda so no vote from me
I have not decided whether to void my ballot but will do so shortly
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
The Tory Party is pro hunting it's as simple as that. Of course it is. You are turning a blind eye to "your" party if you think otherwise.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
You protest too much. No votes for Hunt from us
Big G I couldn't give a stuff who you vote for it is the hypocrisy that intrigues me.
He’s a dribbling old fart.
The Conservatives have stood on a pro-Repeal platform for the last four General Elections.
But I do try to respect people. Your comment is unnecessary
Hard to respect someone as flip-floppy as you with such a desperate need to be liked.
It takes more than just minding your Ps and Qs.
I will stand fair and square against hunting and Hunt exposed his desire to bring it back on the agenda so no vote from me
I have not decided whether to void my ballot but will do so shortly
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
From someone else who is out of step with their Party on the key issue of the day, it's your choice. You don't have to work for or help the Party - it's a voluntary organisation. Spend more time with your good lady and the assorted grandchildren. The party will sink or swim either way.
I've stopped doing voluntary work for the LDs for now - I attended the hustings because I wanted to hear what Jo and Ed had to say. I'm still a member and I have a vote but that's as far as I am at the moment.
Mrs Stodge has more of my time - she seems to prefer it and I do too.
To be honest you have hit the nail on the head
Hunt has upset my whole family with making hunting an issue and hence he lost our votes
It is 50 50 whether either of us vote at all. It is only 2 votes after all
I very much share your views re- foxhunting, but it is surely obvious that Boris is a far more malign and disreputable human being than Hunt - in ways which extend far beyond politics.
Hunt has lost my vote.
I have not decided on Boris and will give it much thought this weekend
Given that not that many weeks ago you were going to leave the party if Boris became leader, I cannot see any reason why you would be prepared to vote for him now.
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
He has a Chinese wife and that is the way in China as was explained to us by our guides on our visit to Beijing a few years ago
Good for China - and Chines homes that are built that way.
Not sure how it will work in the UK when most households don't exactly have one or two spare bedrooms for either or both sets of grandparents to move into.
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
He has a Chinese wife and that is the way in China as was explained to us by our guides on our visit to Beijing a few years ago
Mr G, I normally have a very high opinion of you but what have you been drinking or smoking today? Apart from any other consideration one of China's current social problems is that too often the old are left on their own, especially in rural areas, while the young migrate to the factories in the cities.
I do not accept that for one minute and I am not being 'hounded out' of my party by a section who are living in a past era that has no place in todays world
From someone else who is out of step with their Party on the key issue of the day, it's your choice. You don't have to work for or help the Party - it's a voluntary organisation. Spend more time with your good lady and the assorted grandchildren. The party will sink or swim either way.
I've stopped doing voluntary work for the LDs for now - I attended the hustings because I wanted to hear what Jo and Ed had to say. I'm still a member and I have a vote but that's as far as I am at the moment.
Mrs Stodge has more of my time - she seems to prefer it and I do too.
To be honest you have hit the nail on the head
Hunt has upset my whole family with making hunting an issue and hence he lost our votes
It is 50 50 whether either of us vote at all. It is only 2 votes after all
I very much share your views re- foxhunting, but it is surely obvious that Boris is a far more malign and disreputable human being than Hunt - in ways which extend far beyond politics.
Hunt has lost my vote.
I have not decided on Boris and will give it much thought this weekend
Given that not that many weeks ago you were going to leave the party if Boris became leader, I cannot see any reason why you would be prepared to vote for him now.
I have a vote and that is important. I cannot vote for Hunt so it is a question of voting Boris or voiding the ballot
It is a very difficult decision for me as I have no love for Boris.
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
He has a Chinese wife and that is the way in China as was explained to us by our guides on our visit to Beijing a few years ago
Good for China - and Chines homes that are built that way.
Not sure how it will work in the UK when most households don't exactly have one or two spare bedrooms for either or both sets of grandparents to move into.
Is it possible to be a fake charlatan? Hunt seems to be trying very hard to be one.
Johnson is the real deal con artist. You know where you stand with him. With Hunt you don't know whether he wants you to think, yes, he really is a fraud. Or that he is just pretending and when this dire election is over he will turn out to be honest and sensible after all.
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
He has a Chinese wife and that is the way in China as was explained to us by our guides on our visit to Beijing a few years ago
Mr G, I normally have a very high opinion of you but what have you been drinking or smoking today? Apart from any other consideration one of China's current social problems is that too often the old are left on their own, especially in rural areas, while the young migrate to the factories in the cities.
I do not smoke or drink to be fair. It was pointed out by various guides on our visit to China that it is generally the rule that three generations live together as there is no social welfare and they look after each other. Of course there will be exceptions and maybe it was truer of years gone by but it is a Chinese tradition
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
He has a Chinese wife and that is the way in China as was explained to us by our guides on our visit to Beijing a few years ago
Mr G, I normally have a very high opinion of you but what have you been drinking or smoking today? Apart from any other consideration one of China's current social problems is that too often the old are left on their own, especially in rural areas, while the young migrate to the factories in the cities.
I do not smoke or drink to be fair. It was pointed out by various guides on our visit to China that it is generally the rule that three generations live together as there is no social welfare and they look after each other. Of course there will be exceptions and maybe it was truer of years gone by but it is a Chinese tradition
From my one visit to China (without an 'official' guide), and my socialising with Chinese people I think it definitely more applicable to years gone by.
Extraordinary statement from Hunt, given the size of the average British house. He is reported in the Guardian as saying 'he is a supporter of encouraging three generations of families to live together in a bid to cut social care costs – with one generation looking after the other.'
He has a Chinese wife and that is the way in China as was explained to us by our guides on our visit to Beijing a few years ago
Mr G, I normally have a very high opinion of you but what have you been drinking or smoking today? Apart from any other consideration one of China's current social problems is that too often the old are left on their own, especially in rural areas, while the young migrate to the factories in the cities.
I do not smoke or drink to be fair. It was pointed out by various guides on our visit to China that it is generally the rule that three generations live together as there is no social welfare and they look after each other. Of course there will be exceptions and maybe it was truer of years gone by but it is a Chinese tradition
From my one visit to China (without an 'official' guide), and my socialising with Chinese people I think it definitely more applicable to years gone by.
Maybe but I expect that is the origin of Hunts social care comments
Comments
My daughter was horified as are all the family at the thought of resurrecting fox hunting and we cannot vote for Hunt. I do not know even if my wife will vote at all and I may vote Boris as I have a vote but it would be not be in any way an easy thing to do and I will decide over the weekend
Same as any decent Tory leadership candidate.
FOBT gambling abuse is.
What you are saying is like saying drugs are not a bad choice because ibuprofen and aspirin can help you so there's nothing wrong with opioid abuse.
Incidentally, are there hustings near you? You might be able to ask him directly.
We will disagree on this and that is perfectly normal
The whole thing sometimes makes me ashamed to admit I am British, these people do not represent me.
The Brexit MEPs take their salaries, pensions, expenses etc, and proceed to just take the piss.
Yuk.
The party you have been so loyal to all these years is institutionally pro hunting. It remains so today.
You have either had a damascene conversion in the past two years (fair enough but that means you are now in the wrong party) or you have been labouring under a huge illusion.
I don't think that in what she said there's much to object to.
She's not really a serious politician any more. I'd presume she knows that, but equally she's an interesting voice.
Lammy though is a serious politician, or at least he claims to be. He's been touted as the future occupant of many fine roles after all. Mainly by himself though, it has to be said.
I think he's making just a ridiculously cheap attempt at a point, and totally failing. What's really baffling is that's most of what he does, but he's not entirely stupid. If he commented 90% less often he'd do himself a favour.
3% chance he's next Labour leader? I think not.
I've recently come round to the view that Long-Bailey has that sown up. I've also come round to the view that she's an interesting politician - she's definitely learning.
This website is about responsible gambling. Bookmakers relying upon FOBTs to survive would be like a chemist's relying upon OTC opioids available without prescription to survive.
It's the gambling world's equivalent of extreme ironing.
What has happened in recent times is liberal attitudes towards gambling have been replaced by a new quasi-puritan line. Perhaps this has been the result of a proliferation of betting shops in High Streets and the social consequences of such venues as meeting places despite the "no play no stay" policies and security.
Perhaps more coverage illustrating the impact of compulsive gambling has played a part. As you say, this site indulges in betting but it's a world away from most gamblers. As an example, I play blackjack but only when I'm in Vegas never in the UK, it's just not the same.
FOBT is pure gambling - it's will I win this time or not based on a random number generator.... worse it's not even a fruit machine which has a pattern you could learn to step in and scoop the jackpot, it's based on a random number generator designed to return x% of the money put in it where x is less than 100%.
To be blunt it's only purpose was for money laundry and while the reduction to £2 is a fine measure the law should require receipts that state what was put in and what was returned not separate receipts where the receipt for the amount waged could be easily "lost".
On the sort of swings we are seeing now, there will likely be seats where the projected vote share is actually negative. Even Corbyn won’t go that low.
Cameron in 2010 and 2015, May in 2017.
Hunt explicitly and Boris implicitly now.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7200701/Blooming-angry-Hecklers-brand-Boris-crazy-preposterous-ideas-visit-garden-centre.html
What's annoyed me is NOT the fact Boris got heckled at Polhill Garden Centre (decent breakfast, nice Sunday lunch) but the fact the Mail is asking its readers to snitch on the hecklers who are simply using their rights in a free society to heckle a politician making a political visit to a garden centre.
Now, what do you suppose would happen if one of the Mail's army of snitches grasses up a garden centre heckler? You guessed it - the Mail would do a hatchet job on the poor person or people highlighting the slightest indiscretion all because they had the temerity not to strew rose petals at the feet of Boris or sigh in reverential silence as he passed by.
So much for the right to protest or to have an opinion but heckle Corbyn and the Mail will laud you as a hero.
I wish he'd said nothing but a trap was set and he fell into it.
Very bad politics from him. Then again the alternative is Boris
* Plus maybe Brexit Party if it gets traction.
I've stopped doing voluntary work for the LDs for now - I attended the hustings because I wanted to hear what Jo and Ed had to say. I'm still a member and I have a vote but that's as far as I am at the moment.
Mrs Stodge has more of my time - she seems to prefer it and I do too.
Hunt has upset my whole family with making hunting an issue and hence he lost our votes
It is 50 50 whether either of us vote at all. It is only 2 votes after all
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33520547
And May in 2017.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39861011
The idea that this is some sort of dead issue that Hunt has just resurrected out of the blue is ridiculous. Even if it does cause BigG to change all his other views about the suitability of the candidates as a result (but not apparently sufficient to cause him to look elsewhere for a vote at a General Election)
I have not decided on Boris and will give it much thought this weekend
It should not be. Hunting is wrong and the world has moved on.
There's so little going on we can spend a whole day talking about fox hunting.
Nice one, Jeremy.
Hunt was ambushed into merely stating his party’s policy in every GE except 2010. That’s hardly an ambush of clear margins between him and other candidates
What’s the morality and ethical benchmark. People more upset by his fox view than his abortion view?
Those who insist fox hunting cruel, what’s their view of shooting, fishing? In fact Fox hunting not nearly on the scale of cruelty and barbarity as the horse racing industry, is it?
Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
The idea it should be a priority now is absurd. It is a non issue and we should move on.
And yes I think it is rather foolish that he let it be reported the way it has, but in a newspaper interview a newspaper will try to find a way to twist any words in the direction that they want (much easier to shut down a question in a TV interview, although May couldn't even manage that).
It would be bad enough in normal times, but, now? Are we honestly doing this now?
How near ARE we to war with Iran? Or China. Both countries have very good reason to distrust us.
Is fox hunting cruel? The whole animal kingdom is cruel. A cat playing with a mouse is cruel. You wouldn’t find a hunted fox putting a ban on The horrors of the Syrian war, beheadings, burning alive, barrel bombs with chemical weapons in it, animals recognise us for what we are. Wouldn’t animals hunt you and rip you to shreds if they had the chance?
Not all animals. My stick insect is quite passive.
Fox hunting rarely happens .
First Germany and after a few polls showing the CDU/CSU regaining the lead from the Greens, the latest Infratest poll has the Greens on 26%, the Union on 25%, the SDP and AfD on 13% and both FDP and Linke on 8%.
That's identical 12.5% swings from both SPD and CDU/CSU to Green since the last election and that would fundamentally reshape the Bundestag.
Over to Latvia and the New Unity Party of Prime Minister Karins has made big advances and is now a clear second behind opposition leaders Harmony (aka the Social Democrats). New Unity took a mauling at the last election losing two thirds of its seats but has staged a spectacular comeback since Karins came (remind you of anyone?) through to become Prime Minister in January.
In Spain, the governing PSOE party has now reached 40% in a poll and has a massive 24 point lead over Citizens on 16% with PP on 14% and UP on 13%.
In Finland, the Finns Party leads on 20% with the National Coalition on 19%, the Social Democrats on 17% and the Greens moving up to 14%. Finland voted in April and the current Government is broadly centre to centre-left headed by the Social Democrats.
Finally, to Greece, which votes on Sunday and there's little to report. The polls continue to show a healthy lead for New Democracy - 13 points (40-27) with Prorata and 11 points (39-28) with Alco. Either way, it's hard to see anything other than a convincing New Democracy win on Sunday.
I would - marginally - support allowing fox hunting on liberal grounds and the balance of the rights of people to do what they want without me saying, no you can't, and the rights of the fox not to be torn to pieces. That I think they are unspeakable and uneatable is neither here nor there. But I'm not going to head to the barricades.
The Conservatives have stood on a pro-Repeal platform for the last four General Elections.
Others have said it is totemic.
It takes more than just minding your Ps and Qs.
I have not decided whether to void my ballot but will do so shortly
Not sure how it will work in the UK when most households don't exactly have one or two spare bedrooms for either or both sets of grandparents to move into.
It is a very difficult decision for me as I have no love for Boris.
I will decide shortly
Johnson is the real deal con artist. You know where you stand with him. With Hunt you don't know whether he wants you to think, yes, he really is a fraud. Or that he is just pretending and when this dire election is over he will turn out to be honest and sensible after all.
Is Hunt's campaign purely an exercise in making Bozo look like the moderate, sensible choice.