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SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited June 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson edges back to being an even stronger favourite on the Betfair exchange

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  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,316
    "I ask you: do you want Total Brexit? If necessary, do you want a Brexit more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine?"

    :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    To be expected. It was the first stumbles, and even then he was still totally fine. Hopefully Hunt can put up a decent showing at least.

    P.S The Tories have gone off the wall. Not for choosing Boris, that makes a certain amount of sense when they think that will save the most MPs. But in caring about nothing but one policy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Laying Hunt is free money.

    There is no way the party membership will back Mr Jeremy "I'm the 48 not a Little Englander" Hunt.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    edited June 2019
    Yougov has a Tory members' poll out this week with Boris leading Hunt 74% to 26%.

    If true Boris would win the Tory membership over Hunt by even more than Cameron beat Davis and IDS beat Clarke. However I expect it to narrow and that poll concluded on 21st June before the Carrie Symonds' affair

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/25/incredible-rise-and-fall-and-rise-boris-johnson
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,022
    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has a Tory members' poll out this week with Boris leading Hunt 74% to 26%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/25/incredible-rise-and-fall-and-rise-boris-johnson

    That’s last week’s poll, published in the Times on Saturday
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Roger said:

    rottenborough said:

    It gets better:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1143919059328819200

    I do think Labour politicians should get a grip. Williamson suggested Labour had self flagellated for so long that people thought their anti-semitism was more institutional than he thought it was. Tom Watson was the torch-bearer for his dismissal.

    .........Tom Watson who called a dying Leon Britten 'As close to evil as any human being could get'. You wouldn't need an imagination to guess how the cancer ridden Britten and his family must have felt for his few months.

    Watson's outburst was sparked by a meeting with a fantasist whose story was so far-fetched no one but a complete idiot -or her majesty's constabulary- would have given it a second glance.

    My question to Watson would be this: If Williamson can't be forgiven for being insensitive why should you be?.
    More to the point if they don't do anything in response to Williamson being let back in they basically agree with you they need to get a grip on themselves, since it shows their words as nothing but posturing. If they believe what they say, they cannot share a party with such a man. If they can, they are admitting they are just mouthing off to make themselves feel better.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    "I ask you: do you want Total Brexit? If necessary, do you want a Brexit more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine?"

    :lol:

    Okay, look. What if Brexit didn't even exist, huh? Did you ever think about that? I didn't know! So now, if I went in and made a major security issue out of it, everybody steps in. Administration steps in, and there are no exclusive rights for anybody; nobody wins. So I made a decision and it was... wrong. It was a bad call, Sunil. It was a bad call.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has a Tory members' poll out this week with Boris leading Hunt 74% to 26%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/25/incredible-rise-and-fall-and-rise-boris-johnson

    That’s last week’s poll, published in the Times on Saturday
    Though even on that poll Hunt led with Tory members who voted Remain 65% to 35% but Boris led with Tory members who voted Leave 87% to 13%
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    At least for Boris when he wins he gets not just a job but a home.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    The wheels on the bus...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 508
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    "I ask you: do you want Total Brexit? If necessary, do you want a Brexit more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine?"

    :lol:

    "Now, people, rise up, and let the storm break loose!"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    "I ask you: do you want Total Brexit? If necessary, do you want a Brexit more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine?"

    :lol:

    Okay, look. What if Brexit didn't even exist, huh? Did you ever think about that? I didn't know! So now, if I went in and made a major security issue out of it, everybody steps in. Administration steps in, and there are no exclusive rights for anybody; nobody wins. So I made a decision and it was... wrong. It was a bad call, Sunil. It was a bad call.
    When did Johnson say That?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Philip_Thompson said:

    At least for Boris when he wins he gets not just a job but a home.

    Fell off?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Earlier today a delusional comparison was made between Winston Churchill and Boris Johnson. Somehow I doubt that when that great red bus in the sky stops for Boris we shall not see his passing in the same light as Churchill :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Xkr8z3lEo
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    edited June 2019
    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/ProfChalmers/status/1143968590623911936
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,368
    According the Guardian
    'There is absolutely no way the ERG would vote to revive the Withdrawal Agreement and @BorisJohnson has “absolutely guaranteed” he won’t be bringing it back Mark Francois tells @Peston #Peston'

    Anyone anything to the contrary?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/nmdacosta/status/1143965764703203330
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/aug/14/featuresreviews.guardianreview7

    Something for those Labour MPs busily tweeting about how perfectly ghastly anti-semitism is to watch and ponder.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    OldKingCole said:

    According the Guardian
    'There is absolutely no way the ERG would vote to revive the Withdrawal Agreement and @BorisJohnson has “absolutely guaranteed” he won’t be bringing it back Mark Francois tells @Peston #Peston'

    Anyone anything to the contrary?

    It does seem curious how some anti-no dealers are convinced that Boris will cast that lot aside.
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1143961296649564161

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but how does blocking all government spending help the country if, god forbid, we do get no deal Brexit? This sounds like the plan that we should not spend any money on no deal preparation because no deal is bad, but that just means if it does happen we are even more screwed.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    Why not? Just asking.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    kle4 said:

    OldKingCole said:

    According the Guardian
    'There is absolutely no way the ERG would vote to revive the Withdrawal Agreement and @BorisJohnson has “absolutely guaranteed” he won’t be bringing it back Mark Francois tells @Peston #Peston'

    Anyone anything to the contrary?

    It does seem curious how some anti-no dealers are convinced that Boris will cast that lot aside.
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1143961296649564161

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but how does blocking all government spending help the country if, god forbid, we do get no deal Brexit? This sounds like the plan that we should not spend any money on no deal preparation because no deal is bad, but that just means if it does happen we are even more screwed.
    Rubbish. We are entirely in control of whether a no deal brexit happens. We can revoke Article 50 at any time.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    England was so lacking in sovereignty that its largest city and seat of power voted overwhelmingly to Remain. Funny that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited June 2019
    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Those of us who care more about the UK than England. You don't need to share that view, and many don't, but plenty of us will notice so why even pretend no one will? It's not even clever to pretend no one will, since you cannot possibly think no one would notice.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    No polling since has contradicted those findings
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    kle4 said:

    OldKingCole said:

    According the Guardian
    'There is absolutely no way the ERG would vote to revive the Withdrawal Agreement and @BorisJohnson has “absolutely guaranteed” he won’t be bringing it back Mark Francois tells @Peston #Peston'

    Anyone anything to the contrary?

    It does seem curious how some anti-no dealers are convinced that Boris will cast that lot aside.
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1143961296649564161

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but how does blocking all government spending help the country if, god forbid, we do get no deal Brexit? This sounds like the plan that we should not spend any money on no deal preparation because no deal is bad, but that just means if it does happen we are even more screwed.
    I think this is outside of Grieve's mental capacity. Don't know about Beckett, with all due respect, I didn't know she was still alive.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Those of us who care more about the UK than England. You don't need to share that view, and many don't, but plenty of us will notice so why even pretend no one will? It's not even clever to pretend no one will, since you cannot possibly think no one would notice.
    I don't mean domestically, I mean globally.

    When I lived overseas my country was called England by the people living overseas. I think many Americans might struggle to explain the difference between Britain and England and the United Kingdom.

    Saying Global Britain rather than Global England or vice-versa doesn't change much.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    No polling since has contradicted those findings
    LOL. No poll other than the one you were quoting earlier, which has 55% of Scots preferring Remain against any other option.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/2v9b2rv2gl/TheTimes_190618_BrexitResults_w.pdf
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    ReggieCide said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    Why not? Just asking.
    I see now,it's semantics.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    No polling since has contradicted those findings
    LOL. No poll other than the one you were quoting earlier, which has 55% of Scots preferring Remain against any other option.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/2v9b2rv2gl/TheTimes_190618_BrexitResults_w.pdf
    @HYUFD is the personification of 'confirmation bias'.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Gallowgate said:

    England was so lacking in sovereignty that its largest city and seat of power voted overwhelmingly to Remain. Funny that.

    London is what I believe these days is called cosmopolitan
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Laying Hunt is free money.

    There is no way the party membership will back Mr Jeremy "I'm the 48 not a Little Englander" Hunt.

    He's obviously got a higher opinion of his fellow Tories than you have which though misplaced is nice in a potential leader
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    England was so lacking in sovereignty that its largest city and seat of power voted overwhelmingly to Remain. Funny that.

    London is what I believe these days is called cosmopolitan
    🤔
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    England was so lacking in sovereignty that its largest city and seat of power voted overwhelmingly to Remain. Funny that.

    London is what I believe these days is called cosmopolitan
    So are we redefining England to not include London now? I can't keep up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Roger said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Laying Hunt is free money.

    There is no way the party membership will back Mr Jeremy "I'm the 48 not a Little Englander" Hunt.

    He's obviously got a higher opinion of his fellow Tories than you have which though misplaced is nice in a potential leader
    If he thinks his fellow Tories are "the 48" then that explains why he and Remainer May have failed so dreadfully.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Philip_Thompson said:

    kle4 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Those of us who care more about the UK than England. You don't need to share that view, and many don't, but plenty of us will notice so why even pretend no one will? It's not even clever to pretend no one will, since you cannot possibly think no one would notice.
    I don't mean domestically, I mean globally.

    When I lived overseas my country was called England by the people living overseas. I think many Americans might struggle to explain the difference between Britain and England and the United Kingdom.

    Saying Global Britain rather than Global England or vice-versa doesn't change much.
    Ok then self determination for London, merseyside manchester and a host of other areas. I am trying to find a polite way to say please give up this line of approach. It does wear one down as does anything which begins ‘but in a poll......’ is also very wearing.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    nichomar said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    kle4 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Those of us who care more about the UK than England. You don't need to share that view, and many don't, but plenty of us will notice so why even pretend no one will? It's not even clever to pretend no one will, since you cannot possibly think no one would notice.
    I don't mean domestically, I mean globally.

    When I lived overseas my country was called England by the people living overseas. I think many Americans might struggle to explain the difference between Britain and England and the United Kingdom.

    Saying Global Britain rather than Global England or vice-versa doesn't change much.
    Ok then self determination for London, merseyside manchester and a host of other areas. I am trying to find a polite way to say please give up this line of approach. It does wear one down as does anything which begins ‘but in a poll......’ is also very wearing.
    If they want UDI I wouldn't object. I don't see it happening though. Are there Merseyside or London independence parties struggling the scoreboards?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    edited June 2019
    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1143931629959831552

    If you're explaining you're losing & ratioed tweet alert.

    Hunt = toast.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Gallowgate said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    England was so lacking in sovereignty that its largest city and seat of power voted overwhelmingly to Remain. Funny that.

    London is what I believe these days is called cosmopolitan
    So are we redefining England to not include London now? I can't keep up.
    England is England without London, the Cotswolds, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool and large chunks of the Home Counties, haven’t you heard?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stuff of nightmares:
    https://twitter.com/likingitlots/status/1143880720387104770
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    _Anazina_ said:

    Gallowgate said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    England was so lacking in sovereignty that its largest city and seat of power voted overwhelmingly to Remain. Funny that.

    London is what I believe these days is called cosmopolitan
    So are we redefining England to not include London now? I can't keep up.
    England is England without London, the Cotswolds, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool and large chunks of the Home Counties, haven’t you heard?
    And Leeds, Bristol, Brighton, Leicester, and York. I wonder what 'Global England' would be like without these places?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Gallowgate said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    England was so lacking in sovereignty that its largest city and seat of power voted overwhelmingly to Remain. Funny that.

    London is what I believe these days is called cosmopolitan
    So are we redefining England to not include London now? I can't keep up.
    keep trying. I'm sure you'll get there in the end. For clarity I was observing not redefining. Google it if you're still struggling.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    edited June 2019
    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    No polling since has contradicted those findings
    LOL. No poll other than the one you were quoting earlier, which has 55% of Scots preferring Remain against any other option.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/2v9b2rv2gl/TheTimes_190618_BrexitResults_w.pdf
    The poll you quoted did NOT include a Canada style FTA as an option.

    In any case even if they favoured Remain the poll I quoted showed most Scots thought a Canada style FTA for GB Brexit would still be a good option but No Deal Brexit would be a bad option
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/1143975742843305984
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Aww diddums.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It turns out that Little Englanders want England littler, shorn of those vile Remain-voting areas.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It turns out that Little Englanders want England littler, shorn of those vile Remain-voting areas.

    I don't think anyone's advocated that, just had Remainers throw it about as absurd "what ifs" when there is zero evidence of independence movements in those regions.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1143961296649564161

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but how does blocking all government spending help the country if, god forbid, we do get no deal Brexit? This sounds like the plan that we should not spend any money on no deal preparation because no deal is bad, but that just means if it does happen we are even more screwed.
    I think this is Mutually Assured (Parliamentary) Destruction to guard against the suggestion from the No Deal side that Parliament would be prorogued, or ignored, because they're desperately trying to find a way to prevent No Deal that doesn't involve giving Corbyn a chance of becoming PM.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Philip_Thompson said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It turns out that Little Englanders want England littler, shorn of those vile Remain-voting areas.

    I don't think anyone's advocated that, just had Remainers throw it about as absurd "what ifs" when there is zero evidence of independence movements in those regions.
    You’re ready to slough off Scotland and Northern Ireland in pursuit of the great white Brexit.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It turns out that Little Englanders want England littler, shorn of those vile Remain-voting areas.

    I don't think anyone's advocated that, just had Remainers throw it about as absurd "what ifs" when there is zero evidence of independence movements in those regions.
    You’re ready to slough off Scotland and Northern Ireland in pursuit of the great white Brexit.
    I'm ready to do so if we remain in the EU too. I backed Yes in 2014 pre-Brexit when I was a Remainer. So your point is?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    OblitusSumMe said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1143961296649564161

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but how does blocking all government spending help the country if, god forbid, we do get no deal Brexit? This sounds like the plan that we should not spend any money on no deal preparation because no deal is bad, but that just means if it does happen we are even more screwed.
    I think this is Mutually Assured (Parliamentary) Destruction to guard against the suggestion from the No Deal side that Parliament would be prorogued, or ignored, because they're desperately trying to find a way to prevent No Deal that doesn't involve giving Corbyn a chance of becoming PM.
    In the event of No Deal I suspect most Remainers would actually go LD or Green, not vote for the pro Brexit Corbyn
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    edited June 2019
    OblitusSumMe said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1143961296649564161

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but how does blocking all government spending help the country if, god forbid, we do get no deal Brexit? This sounds like the plan that we should not spend any money on no deal preparation because no deal is bad, but that just means if it does happen we are even more screwed.
    I think this is Mutually Assured (Parliamentary) Destruction to guard against the suggestion from the No Deal side that Parliament would be prorogued, or ignored, because they're desperately trying to find a way to prevent No Deal that doesn't involve giving Corbyn a chance of becoming PM.
    Does it stop all tax collection as well :o ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    I find it genuinely staggering and appalling that people have moved on from Brexit (misguided but I understand it) to wanting to destroy the Union.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Philip_Thompson said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    It turns out that Little Englanders want England littler, shorn of those vile Remain-voting areas.

    I don't think anyone's advocated that, just had Remainers throw it about as absurd "what ifs" when there is zero evidence of independence movements in those regions.
    You’re ready to slough off Scotland and Northern Ireland in pursuit of the great white Brexit.
    I'm ready to do so if we remain in the EU too. I backed Yes in 2014 pre-Brexit when I was a Remainer. So your point is?
    My point is that mad Leavers want to destroy the UK in order to give it Brexit. And they wonder why Remainers aren’t flocking to support their vision.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Blocking all Gov't spending sounds like John Redwood's wet dream quite honestly...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,275
    TOPPING said:

    I find it genuinely staggering and appalling that people have moved on from Brexit (misguided but I understand it) to wanting to destroy the Union.

    And me.

    With my families connections to Scotland, Wales and England it is truely distressing
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
    And that modern nation state should be called "England and Wales".
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
    And that modern nation state should be called "England and Wales".
    Sure. Like the England and Wales Cricket Team, and the England and Wales Cricket Board.

    Commonly called ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
    1536 to 1707 is not four centuries.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,782
    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/HayesBrown/status/1143961189434761216
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
    And that modern nation state should be called "England and Wales".
    I think we should just call it after the older and more important of the two nation states.

    That has the added advantage that 'Wales' is shorter and easier to spell.
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    It's really very simple at this point. There's only one scenario in which Boris probably loses.

    It's one where Hunt is dirty enough and competent enough to engineer headlines in the Tory house papers along the lines of "Boris made me kill our babies, says ex-lover".

    I thought in making abortion an issue by expressing his support for a lower time limit he was edging towards this.

    But I suspect he recognises that winning like that would risk destroying the party, and losing like that would certainly end his career.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    edited June 2019
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/HayesBrown/status/1143961189434761216

    Will he get smacked for this?

    Or will his reign fall because of the plane in Spain?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    Roger said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
    The Brexit Party were second in Scotland in the European Parliament elections and Boris will win back a lot of their voters to the Scottish Tories
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    I find it genuinely staggering and appalling that people have moved on from Brexit (misguided but I understand it) to wanting to destroy the Union.

    The SNP, the now Leader of the Opposition and many more wanted to destroy the Union well before the portmanteau of Brexit was coined.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1143931629959831552

    If you're explaining you're losing & ratioed tweet alert.

    Hunt = toast.

    Hunt's fucked it. His only (slim) hope was relentless pressure on coward Boris and zero (0) fuck ups.

    He fucked up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    oldpolitics said:

    It's really very simple at this point. There's only one scenario in which Boris probably loses.

    It's one where Hunt is dirty enough and competent enough to engineer headlines in the Tory house papers along the lines of "Boris made me kill our babies, says ex-lover".

    I thought in making abortion an issue by expressing his support for a lower time limit he was edging towards this.

    But I suspect he recognises that winning like that would risk destroying the party, and losing like that would certainly end his career.

    Even then most Leavers are more concerned about delivering Brexit Deal or No Deal than abortion, which is of course legal within the time limit
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    ydoethur said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
    And that modern nation state should be called "England and Wales".
    I think we should just call it after the older and more important of the two nation states.

    That has the added advantage that 'Wales' is shorter and easier to spell.
    :D We need to shed the baggage of empire eventually...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    edited June 2019
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1143931629959831552

    If you're explaining you're losing & ratioed tweet alert.

    Hunt = toast.

    Hunt's fucked it. His only (slim) hope was relentless pressure on coward Boris and zero (0) fuck ups.

    He fucked up.
    Yes, you can't afford to make any errors when you're starting 50 points behind.
    If you start 50 pts ahead you can make loads.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ydoethur said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
    And that modern nation state should be called "England and Wales".
    I think we should just call it after the older and more important of the two nation states.

    That has the added advantage that 'Wales' is shorter and easier to spell.
    Someone should explain that to POTUS

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48622001
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Philip_Thompson said:

    ydoethur said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    ReggieCide said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    williamglenn said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    When Scots and Welsh and Irish and Northern Irish have been able to choose their own destiny, why should it be so horrific if the English decide they'd rather be able to do that too than remain shackled to what others who don't even seem to always like us think?

    If Brexit was partly a desire for English sovereignty, don't be surprised if the European question goes a very different way once that aspiration is achieved. An independent England can't vote to be "Global Britain".
    You're right it can be called "Global England" and who's going to notice the difference?
    Global "England and Wales", Wales voted Leave too just like England even if Remain voting Scotland and Northern Ireland left the Union
    Can be like the England and Wales Cricket Team. Commonly called England.
    I think more substantially than "commonly" viz www.ecb.co.uk

    The one day captain is Irish too.
    He's rum too.

    It is amusing that entire website its hard to find any references to "and Wales" unless you look at the about page: https://www.ecb.co.uk/about-us/about-the-ecb

    Seems like a fitting way to deal with the Welsh if they want to stick with us post-Brexit.
    What an arrogant and horrible way to talk about our Welsh brothers and sisters...
    Agree - not my sentiments
    The ECB is following history here.

    Wales spent about 4 centuries being part of the Kingdom of England.

    Its neither arrogant nor horrible for the ECB to do that, nor to say if the Welsh want to stick with England in the future if we reverted to the historical Kingdom of England that we should be able to handle it like that.
    And that modern nation state should be called "England and Wales".
    I think we should just call it after the older and more important of the two nation states.

    That has the added advantage that 'Wales' is shorter and easier to spell.
    Someone should explain that to POTUS

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48622001
    I'll rephrase:

    To anyone with more brainpower than a stuffed walrus, it has the added advantage that 'Wales' is shorter and easier to spell.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,275
    Roger said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
    But if you were at a boat festival you must have been made aware of the hatred of the EU over fishing and the demands from the fishing communities to leave the EU
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/cgwOMT/status/1143980463394033664
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Roger said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
    But if you were at a boat festival you must have been made aware of the hatred of the EU over fishing and the demands from the fishing communities to leave the EU
    You're a reasonable chap. Why are you in bed with these anglo-supremacists and xenophobes?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,275
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TOPPING said:

    I find it genuinely staggering and appalling that people have moved on from Brexit (misguided but I understand it) to wanting to destroy the Union.

    The SNP, the now Leader of the Opposition and many more wanted to destroy the Union well before the portmanteau of Brexit was coined.
    That does not mean to say it is right
  • glwglw Posts: 10,470
    Gallowgate said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    No polling since has contradicted those findings
    LOL. No poll other than the one you were quoting earlier, which has 55% of Scots preferring Remain against any other option.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/2v9b2rv2gl/TheTimes_190618_BrexitResults_w.pdf
    @HYUFD is the personification of 'confirmation bias'.
    It was only a matter of time before an anti-williamglenn emerged. So we now have a poster who sees everything as good for Brexit to counter a poster who sees everything as bad for Brexit. For our nation's safety we must ensure the two never meet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Gallowgate said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Roger said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
    But if you were at a boat festival you must have been made aware of the hatred of the EU over fishing and the demands from the fishing communities to leave the EU
    You're a reasonable chap. Why are you in bed with these anglo-supremacists and xenophobes?
    I wouldn't describe the EU as Anglo-supremacists.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Roger said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
    But if you were at a boat festival you must have been made aware of the hatred of the EU over fishing and the demands from the fishing communities to leave the EU
    If Roger was really at a boat festival I think the consensus on Boris would be that he may be too soft if anything on Europe.

    Unless by "boat" Roger meant "yacht"?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TOPPING said:

    I find it genuinely staggering and appalling that people have moved on from Brexit (misguided but I understand it) to wanting to destroy the Union.

    The SNP, the now Leader of the Opposition and many more wanted to destroy the Union well before the portmanteau of Brexit was coined.
    That does not mean to say it is right
    There is such an easy joke I could make here about it being slightly disturbing that all these xenophobes and racists seem to want the same thing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,751
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Roger said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
    But if you were at a boat festival you must have been made aware of the hatred of the EU over fishing and the demands from the fishing communities to leave the EU
    If Roger was really at a boat festival I think the consensus on Boris would be that he may be too soft if anything on Europe.

    Unless by "boat" Roger meant "yacht"?
    The working classes are renowned for owning boats in 2019.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    No polling since has contradicted those findings
    LOL. No poll other than the one you were quoting earlier, which has 55% of Scots preferring Remain against any other option.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/2v9b2rv2gl/TheTimes_190618_BrexitResults_w.pdf
    The poll you quoted did NOT include a Canada style FTA as an option.

    In any case even if they favoured Remain the poll I quoted showed most Scots thought a Canada style FTA for GB Brexit would still be a good option but No Deal Brexit would be a bad option
    Has any poll since the invocation of Article 50 shown a majority support for a Canada FTA?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,198
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1143931629959831552

    If you're explaining you're losing & ratioed tweet alert.

    Hunt = toast.

    Hunt's fucked it. His only (slim) hope was relentless pressure on coward Boris and zero (0) fuck ups.

    He fucked up.
    I think if Boris now wins he will replace Hunt as Foreign Secretary with Raab and just give Hunt Lidington's DPM role. Truss to become Chancellor and Javid to stay Home Secretary.

    IDS to be Defence Secretary and Cleverly Party Chairman
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Laying Hunt is free money.

    There is no way the party membership will back Mr Jeremy "I'm the 48 not a Little Englander" Hunt.

    Indeed! :D
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,135
    edited June 2019
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TOPPING said:

    I find it genuinely staggering and appalling that people have moved on from Brexit (misguided but I understand it) to wanting to destroy the Union.

    The SNP, the now Leader of the Opposition and many more wanted to destroy the Union well before the portmanteau of Brexit was coined.
    Yes true. I had thought the English more self confident, less insecure, and more generous than to want to shed their associations.
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    HYUFD said:

    oldpolitics said:

    It's really very simple at this point. There's only one scenario in which Boris probably loses.

    It's one where Hunt is dirty enough and competent enough to engineer headlines in the Tory house papers along the lines of "Boris made me kill our babies, says ex-lover".

    I thought in making abortion an issue by expressing his support for a lower time limit he was edging towards this.

    But I suspect he recognises that winning like that would risk destroying the party, and losing like that would certainly end his career.

    Even then most Leavers are more concerned about delivering Brexit Deal or No Deal than abortion, which is of course legal within the time limit
    The vote isn't a vote of Leavers though, it's a vote of Tory members.

    People may be reconciled to it being legal. Tory members to a man bullying his mistress into it so his wife doesn't find out he's knocked someone else up? Less sure.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited June 2019
    Big_G_NorthWales said:



    Roger said:

    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The most important bit of the Brewer tweet is not that she's chucking the Union to deliver Brexit but that she is cancelling the Ruth Davidson project to do so. I always said that Davidson was riding the tiger with her all Brexit to all people strategy and now the piper is demanding to be paid for the tune.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632?s=19

    Yougov has shown most Scots back Brexit with a Canada style FTA for GB, it is only Brexit with No Deal they oppose

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/08/18/majority-people-think-freedom-movement-fair-price-
    You're now reduced to quoting polls from the immediate aftermath of the referendum in 2016?!
    I'm surprised. I was in Scotland over the week-end at a boat festival and even the people on the Conservative stall thought the party a joke. I won't tell you the consensus on Johnson unless you assure me you have several medics on standby
    But if you were at a boat festival you must have been made aware of the hatred of the EU over fishing and the demands from the fishing communities to leave the EU
    I think you may be confusing gin palace and trawler. Or canal boats I guess, but that would seem unlikely given social background of the average canal boater.
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