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I expect that a lot of Tory voters will vote in the Euros, but they'll vote Brexit or UKIP.eek said:
The difficulty with the locals will be getting Tory campaigners out to knock on doors - local elections are however local and many people will be voting for local issues (for instance my vote will be anti the current party in power) as we do need a change and that will mean voting Tory.Sean_F said:
The geography of these contests is weighted towards Leave-voting England. Greater London, Scotland, Wales, do not have local elections, this year. Nor do Bristol and Oxford, strongly Remain-voting areas. As against that, Shropshire, Isle of Wight, Cornwall, and Northamptonshire aren't voting either, and they were strongly Leave. Birmingham and the posh parts of Buckinghamshire were 50/50 and are not voting.rottenborough said:
I'm worried these voters will turn to Brexit Party or worse.TGOHF said:
Worrying for who ? And certainly not surprising.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
Remember it was all going to blow over according to some on here the other day.
By my calculation, the parts of England that are voting this year backed Leave by 55.6% to 44.4%. About 6,800 of the 8,374 seats being contested are in Leave-voting authorities.
Potentially, that leaves the Conservatives vulnerable to angry Leave voters, but also makes it unlikely that Labour, the Lib Dems, and the Greens will pick up many switchers. UKIP and Independents may pick up more switchers, but they're only standing in a minority of seats.
The difficulty for the Euros is that as well as Tory campaigners not going out and knocking on doors there is little likelihood in Tory voters going out and voting. I suspect those who will vote will tend towards the extremes and that may favour Chuk as that vote is far likely to be split in the way Brexit / UKIP vote will be split.0 -
Brexit music:OnlyLivingBoy said:
[breaks out world's smallest violin]rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
Wake
From your sleep
The drying of
Your tears
Today
We escape
We escape0 -
Those most angry support the MPs who betrayed Brexit by refusing to vote for it when they could, so I'm not clear if they will forgive or not, since their anger is not rationally directed.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/0 -
I agree, especially if Farage can frame the argument as "Tell them again."Sean_F said:
I expect that a lot of Tory voters will vote in the Euros, but they'll vote Brexit or UKIP.eek said:
The difficulty with the locals will be getting Tory campaigners out to knock on doors - local elections are however local and many people will be voting for local issues (for instance my vote will be anti the current party in power) as we do need a change and that will mean voting Tory.Sean_F said:
The geography of these contests is weighted towards Leave-voting England. Greater London, Scotland, Wales, do not have local elections, this year. Nor do Bristol and Oxford, strongly Remain-voting areas. As against that, Shropshire, Isle of Wight, Cornwall, and Northamptonshire aren't voting either, and they were strongly Leave. Birmingham and the posh parts of Buckinghamshire were 50/50 and are not voting.rottenborough said:
I'm worried these voters will turn to Brexit Party or worse.TGOHF said:
Worrying for who ? And certainly not surprising.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
Remember it was all going to blow over according to some on here the other day.
By my calculation, the parts of England that are voting this year backed Leave by 55.6% to 44.4%. About 6,800 of the 8,374 seats being contested are in Leave-voting authorities.
Potentially, that leaves the Conservatives vulnerable to angry Leave voters, but also makes it unlikely that Labour, the Lib Dems, and the Greens will pick up many switchers. UKIP and Independents may pick up more switchers, but they're only standing in a minority of seats.
The difficulty for the Euros is that as well as Tory campaigners not going out and knocking on doors there is little likelihood in Tory voters going out and voting. I suspect those who will vote will tend towards the extremes and that may favour Chuk as that vote is far likely to be split in the way Brexit / UKIP vote will be split.0 -
Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.0
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I think that the publicity for Farage will outweigh the UKIP name recognition.AndyJS said:Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.
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That's probably true but I'm not totally convinced yet. If the polls show the Brexit Party miles ahead of UKIP there won't be any doubt about the outcome but it may be closer.Sean_F said:
I think that the publicity for Farage will outweigh the UKIP name recognition.AndyJS said:Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.
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Tory activists gearing up for the Euro elections won't exactly be delighted to hear Philip Hammond say: "the Euro elections feel like a pointless exercise".0
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"Ben and Betty were so pleased that Nigel Farage was getting involved that they came back from Benidorm specially for his launch"
That's why I like the BBC. They can see the significance of those little details0 -
They're desperate to personalise the news but it usually ends up being a bit cringeworthy.Roger said:"Ben and Betty were so pleased that Nigel Farage was getting involved that they came back from Benidorm specially for his launch"
That's why I like the BBC. They can see the significance of those little details0 -
But then they wouldn't be a pointless exercise. What Hammond is saying is we will deffo Leave.....Sean_F said:
Wait till he says "I wish we'd just cancel Brexit."AndyJS said:Tory activists gearing up for the Euro elections won't exactly be delighted to hear Philip Hammond say: "the Euro elections feel like a pointless exercise".
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Scope for plenty of Purple on Purple infighting though....Sean_F said:
I think that the publicity for Farage will outweigh the UKIP name recognition.AndyJS said:Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.
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I think there's a chance that many voters will hear "Farage" and think "UKIP" and publicity for Farage could increase votes for UKIP.Sean_F said:
I think that the publicity for Farage will outweigh the UKIP name recognition.AndyJS said:Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.
One problem with the name Brexit for the new party is that it's a thing in itself, so people might not immediately recognise it as the name of Nigel's new party. I'd hope that UKIP in its current guise wouldn't be worth more than 2% in the EU elections on its own, and any more that it receives are solely due to the brand recognition and association with Farage.
The ratio of Brexit : UKIP votes will be one of the fascinating parts of the results.0 -
I would not expect that either the Brexit Party or TIG will be granted Major Party status for the EU elections. Neither party has received a single vote.0
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And when the penny has dropped with everyone else that their best (probably only) chance of leaving now is by winning a second referendum (WA vs Remain), they will redirect their anger towards those proposing a second referendum.kle4 said:
Those most angry support the MPs who betrayed Brexit by refusing to vote for it when they could, so I'm not clear if they will forgive or not, since their anger is not rationally directed.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/0 -
(RM)AlastairMeeks said:
Brexit music:OnlyLivingBoy said:
[breaks out world's smallest violin]rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
Wake
From your sleep
The drying of
Your tears
Today
We escape
We escape
The Leader
I wanna be the leader
I wanna be the leader
Can I be the leader?
Can I? I can?
Promise? Promise?
Yippee I'm the leader
I'm the leader
OK what shall we do?0 -
Mr. 124, the Tiggers are no more. They unwisely chose to become CUKs.
Better chance of CUK getting more coverage as they have incumbent MPs, at least.0 -
I wonder if CHUK / LD voters will justify their billing as higher information participants by splitting (or, rather, not) any more efficiently than UKIP / Brexit voters?AndyJS said:
That's probably true but I'm not totally convinced yet. If the polls show the Brexit Party miles ahead of UKIP there won't be any doubt about the outcome but it may be closer.Sean_F said:
I think that the publicity for Farage will outweigh the UKIP name recognition.AndyJS said:Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.
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This is why the Tories should sit them out.MarqueeMark said:
But then they wouldn't be a pointless exercise. What Hammond is saying is we will deffo Leave.....Sean_F said:
Wait till he says "I wish we'd just cancel Brexit."AndyJS said:Tory activists gearing up for the Euro elections won't exactly be delighted to hear Philip Hammond say: "the Euro elections feel like a pointless exercise".
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I am not aware that CUK have yet been registered as a political party. Their current status as MPs would be irrelevant as they were elected under the Tory and Labour labels. It would be a different matter had they successfully fought confirmatory by elections.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 124, the Tiggers are no more. They unwisely chose to become CUKs.
Better chance of CUK getting more coverage as they have incumbent MPs, at least.0 -
Last year was all-out elections in Leeds, due to boundary changes. 3 member wards. The third-placed elected candidates are having to stand to retain their seats after only 1 year, poor buggers.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, we have locals in Leeds. The referendum region was one of the biggest, and split almost equally, 50.2% supporting Remain.
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They are certainly pointless if you are a Conservative candidate.AndyJS said:Tory activists gearing up for the Euro elections won't exactly be delighted to hear Philip Hammond say: "the Euro elections feel like a pointless exercise".
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The Brexit Party has incumbent MEPs...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 124, the Tiggers are no more. They unwisely chose to become CUKs.
Better chance of CUK getting more coverage as they have incumbent MPs, at least.0 -
There is a rational case to it. Tory activists can understand those who vote for No Deal and understand those who voted for May's Deal. Their anger is at those who vote for neither, and those enabling them by extending.kle4 said:
Those most angry support the MPs who betrayed Brexit by refusing to vote for it when they could, so I'm not clear if they will forgive or not, since their anger is not rationally directed.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
The only way the Tories can bring this back is by removing May and putting a Leaver in charge.0 -
May needs to go but I really do not see how putting a 'leaver' in charge changes anything, since most of the Tory leavers already backed the deal at least once. A leaver in charge doesn't change the facts.JackJack said:
There is a rational case to it. Tory activists can understand those who vote for No Deal and understand those who voted for May's Deal. Their anger is at those who vote for neither, and those enabling them by extending.kle4 said:
Those most angry support the MPs who betrayed Brexit by refusing to vote for it when they could, so I'm not clear if they will forgive or not, since their anger is not rationally directed.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
The only way the Tories can bring this back is by removing May and putting a Leaver in charge.0 -
Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?0 -
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.0 -
It's also got the intriguing title of 'The Rise Of Skywalker' which has set off so many fan theories.0
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Jar Jar Binks isn't in this trailer - but was on set...TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?0 -
Genius
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I hope it is as good as the Last Jedi, I loved that movie. I hope they haven't gone overboard on retroactive continuity because of butthurt fanboys about the last movie with some of their silliness(this is in no way a criticism for anyone who has issues with writing or plot, each to their own on that score).TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?0 -
Couldn't possibly be as bad as the last one, even if the answer had been Jar Jar Binks.TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
Guess who is back?0 -
As May has found it, being in charge of the Tory party is not the same as being in charge of parliament. Boris or whoever will not succeed in getting no-deal or similar through this parliament. Could they win a general election outright? Possibly, but that would come at the risk of no Brexit and/or a Corbyn government. More likely it would be another hung parliament where eventually people will have to compromise (or delay....) and the purists on either side will get angrier still.JackJack said:
There is a rational case to it. Tory activists can understand those who vote for No Deal and understand those who voted for May's Deal. Their anger is at those who vote for neither, and those enabling them by extending.kle4 said:
Those most angry support the MPs who betrayed Brexit by refusing to vote for it when they could, so I'm not clear if they will forgive or not, since their anger is not rationally directed.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
The only way the Tories can bring this back is by removing May and putting a Leaver in charge.0 -
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.0 -
Oh dear. With this statement we must assign your future views the weight of an electron.kle4 said:
I hope it is as good as the Last Jedi, I loved that movie. I hope they haven't gone overboard on retroactive continuity because of butthurt fanboys about the last movie with some of their silliness(this is in no way a criticism for anyone who has issues with writing or plot, each to their own on that score).TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?
People should have been paid to watch the Last Jedi.0 -
It was great. Not to provoke a lengthy debate on the subject, but while I totally get how people would not like it, I really do not get why some people seem to despise it. Particularly among Star Wars geeks who liked things in Force Awakens which they seemed to despise in Last Jedi. It's probably my second favourite Star Wars movie after Return of the Jedi.RoyalBlue said:
Oh dear. With this statement we must assign your future views the weight of an electron.kle4 said:
I hope it is as good as the Last Jedi, I loved that movie. I hope they haven't gone overboard on retroactive continuity because of butthurt fanboys about the last movie with some of their silliness(this is in no way a criticism for anyone who has issues with writing or plot, each to their own on that score).TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?
People should have been paid to watch the Last Jedi.
I think the Last Jedi good/bad split on PB is more bitter than on Brexit. Pity those who don't care about it.0 -
That was when the EEC did not have political union, legal supremacy or entail mass migration. Those three additional elements have meant pro-Europeanism will never be supported by people of a conservative tendency. The Euro makes it worse. The UK either need to give up control of monetary policy to a system with a terrible track record, or forever be marginalized in control of it's own law by the Eurozone powers.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.0 -
Will the UK still be in the European Union when Episode IX is released in December?
Might ask Shadsy to price that up.0 -
Thatcher won despite her pro-European stance, not because of it. She was more in tune with her MPs perhaps - but her voters have been and continue to be very, very wary of the EU.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.0 -
Anyone using the term "butthurt" automatically loses the argument.RoyalBlue said:
Oh dear. With this statement we must assign your future views the weight of an electron.kle4 said:
I hope it is as good as the Last Jedi, I loved that movie. I hope they haven't gone overboard on retroactive continuity because of butthurt fanboys about the last movie with some of their silliness(this is in no way a criticism for anyone who has issues with writing or plot, each to their own on that score).TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?
People should have been paid to watch the Last Jedi.0 -
I expect this statement will only boost Boris with Tory members even if little evidence for it0
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Having seen you exhibiting 3 of the 4, dare we hope that quieter is around the corner?AlastairMeeks said:Welcome @JackJack. The site has its fair number of Leave representatives, though they have recently got by turns angrier, quieter, more deranged and weirder.
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It just that "SKYWALKER" becomes a mega brand, across the galaxy. Apple, eat your heart out...TheScreamingEagles said:It's also got the intriguing title of 'The Rise Of Skywalker' which has set off so many fan theories.
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It's always been a political union with law that has direct effect. Free movement does not equal mass migration, and to the extent that there might be temporary phenomena as the new members catch up economically, we just need to look at the bigger picture.JackJack said:
That was when the EEC did not have political union, legal supremacy or entail mass migration. Those three additional elements have meant pro-Europeanism will never be supported by people of a conservative tendency. The Euro makes it worse. The UK either need to give up control of monetary policy to a system with a terrible track record, or forever be marginalized in control of it's own law by the Eurozone powers.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.
Trying to 'other' people who are pro-European as 'not conservative' will just turn your party into a small sect.0 -
That's actually not a bad idea.tlg86 said:
This is why the Tories should sit them out.MarqueeMark said:
But then they wouldn't be a pointless exercise. What Hammond is saying is we will deffo Leave.....Sean_F said:
Wait till he says "I wish we'd just cancel Brexit."AndyJS said:Tory activists gearing up for the Euro elections won't exactly be delighted to hear Philip Hammond say: "the Euro elections feel like a pointless exercise".
However, it does carry with it the risk that a LD/ChUK/RemainCoalition ends up topping the poll. (I'm going on the assumption that 50% of Tory voters sit out the elections in that situation, while 25% vote Remain and 25% UKIP/Brexit.0 -
I didn't like the Force Awakens either.kle4 said:
It was great. Not to provoke a lengthy debate on the subject, but while I totally get how people would not like it, I really do not get why some people seem to despise it. Particularly among Star Wars geeks who liked things in Force Awakens which they seemed to despise in Last Jedi. It's probably my second favourite Star Wars movie after Return of the Jedi.RoyalBlue said:
Oh dear. With this statement we must assign your future views the weight of an electron.kle4 said:
I hope it is as good as the Last Jedi, I loved that movie. I hope they haven't gone overboard on retroactive continuity because of butthurt fanboys about the last movie with some of their silliness(this is in no way a criticism for anyone who has issues with writing or plot, each to their own on that score).TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?
People should have been paid to watch the Last Jedi.
I think the Last Jedi good/bad split on PB is more bitter than on Brexit. Pity those who don't care about it.
They were both unimaginative, derivative and badly written. With rare exceptions they were also quite badly acted.
But to be truthful, that's a feature of most of the saga except Episode V. So what did annoy me? I've got to be honest and say I think the worst thing was it was so bloody long for no discernible reason.0 -
Her pro-European stance enabled her to look like a serious leader on the world stage, as opposed to a laughing stock. It also helped her to portray the opposition as economically dangerous.MarqueeMark said:
Thatcher won despite her pro-European stance, not because of it. She was more in tune with her MPs perhaps - but her voters have been and continue to be very, very wary of the EU.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.0 -
Agreed, as long as it is more like the excellent Last Jedi than the dire Rogue One it will be worth watchingkle4 said:
I hope it is as good as the Last Jedi, I loved that movie. I hope they haven't gone overboard on retroactive continuity because of butthurt fanboys about the last movie with some of their silliness(this is in no way a criticism for anyone who has issues with writing or plot, each to their own on that score).TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?0 -
I have refrained from posting over the last day or two mainly due to brexit boredom
However, I have come to the conclusion TM needs to open the leadership race as soon as Easter is over. There is no point in her continuing in the deadlock and new ideas are needed
It does not matter who succeeds her as long as the numbers remain the same but it is now time for change. I hope TM in her walks this next week here in beautiful North Wales realises she has done her best to square the circle but needs to pass on the responsibilty before she is forced out
I want to leave on her deal, and if a new leader can achieve brexit with fine tuning her deal that would be a good outcome for both her amd the country
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Though if you want a truly dire film try the Hellboy remake, Matthew Norman scathing in the Standard tonight
https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/film/hellboy-review-reboot-david-harbour-a4116176.html0 -
Actually I think there was a reason (minus the Finn stuff which was filler) not that it would be one someone would like if they did not like the movie- because it was aping the original trilogy the seeming endpoint came, was subverted, then the last bit was set up things moving forward, and the length played into it by getting to the usual 2 hours, then adding stuff setting up the next movie. I think that was one reason I really liked it so much, because while I enjoyed Force Awakens it was so obviously redoing New Hope, and the Last Jedi end point seemed to be taking things in a new direction as a result of what happened in it.ydoethur said:
But to be truthful, that's a feature of most of the saga except Episode V. So what did annoy me? I've got to be honest and say I think the worst thing was it was so bloody long for no discernible reason.kle4 said:
It was great. Not to provoke a lengthy debate on the subject, but while I totally get how people would not like it, I really do not get why some people seem to despise it. Particularly among Star Wars geeks who liked things in Force Awakens which they seemed to despise in Last Jedi. It's probably my second favourite Star Wars movie after Return of the Jedi.RoyalBlue said:
Oh dear. With this statement we must assign your future views the weight of an electron.kle4 said:
I hope it is as good as the Last Jedi, I loved that movie. I hope they haven't gone overboard on retroactive continuity because of butthurt fanboys about the last movie with some of their silliness(this is in no way a criticism for anyone who has issues with writing or plot, each to their own on that score).TheScreamingEagles said:Star Wars Episode IX trailer out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs&t=11s
Guess who is back?
People should have been paid to watch the Last Jedi.
I think the Last Jedi good/bad split on PB is more bitter than on Brexit. Pity those who don't care about it.
Although with the name and details of that new trailer, that might have been a false dawn - most Star Wars fans just want what they've seen before. But I'm always hopeful.
Pleasant evening all.0 -
Christ. Sci-fi wank. PB at its worst.
Makes car racing look interesting.0 -
The issue is that the remain/payroll wing of the party is content to let her stay in place because the leave wing has been constantly trying to remove her for the last year or so. That isn't in itself a good reason for her to stay in place though.Big_G_NorthWales said:I have refrained from posting over the last day or two mainly due to brexit boredom
However, I have come to the conclusion TM needs to open the leadership race as soon as Easter is over. There is no point in her continuing in the deadlock and new ideas are needed
It does not matter who succeeds her as long as the numbers remain the same but it is now time for change. I hope TM in her walks this next week here in beautiful North Wales realises she has done her best to square the circle but needs to pass on the responsibilty before she is forced out
I want to leave on her deal, and if a new leader can achieve brexit with fine tuning her deal that would be a good outcome for both her amd the country0 -
Why does 'looking like a serious leader on the world stage' have this intrinsic merit for you? Don't you realise what a genuinely silly and ephemeral 'ambition' that is? What price 'looking serious'. Utterly nuts.williamglenn said:
Her pro-European stance enabled her to look like a serious leader on the world stage, as opposed to a laughing stock. It also helped her to portray the opposition as economically dangerous.MarqueeMark said:
Thatcher won despite her pro-European stance, not because of it. She was more in tune with her MPs perhaps - but her voters have been and continue to be very, very wary of the EU.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.0 -
Another new bird species in our garden this morning: Mallard.
Not just any old mallard, but mummy duck and her nine duckings heading from their nest site in a neighbour's garden trying to reach some water. Our garden wall presented a 'hard border', so me and wor lass had to catch the ducklings and deposit them on the other side of the wall. All was well, and off they all marched through the field...0 -
I don't disagree on the basis of past recent performance - plus SNP in Scotland.Such decisions will have to be made soon in advance of the campaign.Pulpstar said:
UKIP, Labour, Conservative should be the "major" parties I think for the euros.justin124 said:I would not expect that either the Brexit Party or TIG will be granted Major Party status for the EU elections. Neither party has received a single vote.
0 -
I broadly agree, but the 'how' of it escapes me.Big_G_NorthWales said:I have refrained from posting over the last day or two mainly due to brexit boredom
However, I have come to the conclusion TM needs to open the leadership race as soon as Easter is over. There is no point in her continuing in the deadlock and new ideas are needed
It does not matter who succeeds her as long as the numbers remain the same but it is now time for change. I hope TM in her walks this next week here in beautiful North Wales realises she has done her best to square the circle but needs to pass on the responsibilty before she is forced out
I want to leave on her deal, and if a new leader can achieve brexit with fine tuning her deal that would be a good outcome for both her amd the country
The 'who' is quite bad too.
0 -
TM has done her best and has achieved a brexit treaty with the EU. The factions from all sides have created the deadlock. TM staying is most likely to continue the situation and it is a fact the party needs a new leader before the next election. The best time for that is nowPulpstar said:
The issue is that the remain/payroll wing of the party is content to let her stay in place because the leave wing has been constantly trying to remove her for the last year or so. That isn't in itself a good reason for her to stay in place though.Big_G_NorthWales said:I have refrained from posting over the last day or two mainly due to brexit boredom
However, I have come to the conclusion TM needs to open the leadership race as soon as Easter is over. There is no point in her continuing in the deadlock and new ideas are needed
It does not matter who succeeds her as long as the numbers remain the same but it is now time for change. I hope TM in her walks this next week here in beautiful North Wales realises she has done her best to square the circle but needs to pass on the responsibilty before she is forced out
I want to leave on her deal, and if a new leader can achieve brexit with fine tuning her deal that would be a good outcome for both her amd the country0 -
I'm explaining why Thatcher appealed to voters, not expressing my own 'ambitions'.Luckyguy1983 said:
Why does 'looking like a serious leader on the world stage' have this intrinsic merit for you? Don't you realise what a genuinely silly and ephemeral 'ambition' that is? What price 'looking serious'. Utterly nuts.williamglenn said:
Her pro-European stance enabled her to look like a serious leader on the world stage, as opposed to a laughing stock. It also helped her to portray the opposition as economically dangerous.MarqueeMark said:
Thatcher won despite her pro-European stance, not because of it. She was more in tune with her MPs perhaps - but her voters have been and continue to be very, very wary of the EU.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.0 -
I agree on both counts but staying the same is not an option nowOmnium said:
I broadly agree, but the 'how' of it escapes me.Big_G_NorthWales said:I have refrained from posting over the last day or two mainly due to brexit boredom
However, I have come to the conclusion TM needs to open the leadership race as soon as Easter is over. There is no point in her continuing in the deadlock and new ideas are needed
It does not matter who succeeds her as long as the numbers remain the same but it is now time for change. I hope TM in her walks this next week here in beautiful North Wales realises she has done her best to square the circle but needs to pass on the responsibilty before she is forced out
I want to leave on her deal, and if a new leader can achieve brexit with fine tuning her deal that would be a good outcome for both her amd the country
The 'who' is quite bad too.0 -
Doubt it. Farage+Brexit name will trump (sic) the lingering UKIP appeal.AndyJS said:Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.
0 -
Lovely story and well doneSandyRentool said:Another new bird species in our garden this morning: Mallard.
Not just any old mallard, but mummy duck and her nine duckings heading from their nest site in a neighbour's garden trying to reach some water. Our garden wall presented a 'hard border', so me and wor lass had to catch the ducklings and deposit them on the other side of the wall. All was well, and off they all marched through the field...0 -
I'm fresh out of clues. You?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree on both counts but staying the same is not an option nowOmnium said:
I broadly agree, but the 'how' of it escapes me.Big_G_NorthWales said:I have refrained from posting over the last day or two mainly due to brexit boredom
However, I have come to the conclusion TM needs to open the leadership race as soon as Easter is over. There is no point in her continuing in the deadlock and new ideas are needed
It does not matter who succeeds her as long as the numbers remain the same but it is now time for change. I hope TM in her walks this next week here in beautiful North Wales realises she has done her best to square the circle but needs to pass on the responsibilty before she is forced out
I want to leave on her deal, and if a new leader can achieve brexit with fine tuning her deal that would be a good outcome for both her amd the country
The 'who' is quite bad too.0 -
The risk is that people think UKIP = The Brexit Party = Farage.NickPalmer said:
Doubt it. Farage+Brexit name will trump (sic) the lingering UKIP appeal.AndyJS said:Obviously we'll need more polls, but a value bet may be UKIP getting more votes than the Brexit Party at the Euro elections, simply because of the name recognition of the former over the latter.
0 -
-
No duck spaceships though, so can't be 10/10.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lovely story and well doneSandyRentool said:Another new bird species in our garden this morning: Mallard.
Not just any old mallard, but mummy duck and her nine duckings heading from their nest site in a neighbour's garden trying to reach some water. Our garden wall presented a 'hard border', so me and wor lass had to catch the ducklings and deposit them on the other side of the wall. All was well, and off they all marched through the field...0 -
And me - If I knew that I would make a fortune but alas I do not bet anywayOmnium said:
I'm fresh out of clues. You?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I agree on both counts but staying the same is not an option nowOmnium said:
I broadly agree, but the 'how' of it escapes me.Big_G_NorthWales said:I have refrained from posting over the last day or two mainly due to brexit boredom
However, I have come to the conclusion TM needs to open the leadership race as soon as Easter is over. There is no point in her continuing in the deadlock and new ideas are needed
It does not matter who succeeds her as long as the numbers remain the same but it is now time for change. I hope TM in her walks this next week here in beautiful North Wales realises she has done her best to square the circle but needs to pass on the responsibilty before she is forced out
I want to leave on her deal, and if a new leader can achieve brexit with fine tuning her deal that would be a good outcome for both her amd the country
The 'who' is quite bad too.
0 -
Thank you G. Some years back when I worked in London a mallard nested on the flat roof of the office. We had to call the RSPCA to catch the ducklings and take them down to Hyde Park.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lovely story and well doneSandyRentool said:Another new bird species in our garden this morning: Mallard.
Not just any old mallard, but mummy duck and her nine duckings heading from their nest site in a neighbour's garden trying to reach some water. Our garden wall presented a 'hard border', so me and wor lass had to catch the ducklings and deposit them on the other side of the wall. All was well, and off they all marched through the field...0 -
Sigh. Do we really need to import America’s neuroses into our politics?isam said:0 -
-
The Tory party in a death spiral, unmatched in history.TheScreamingEagles said:Genius
The Labour party: Hold my beer...
https://twitter.com/Cat_Headley/status/11167348346830766080 -
The only political union in 1975 was vague ambition. The extensive veto powers still meant it was an international agreement. Freedom of movement does mean mass migration through expansion and Eurozone problems. Places like Romania will take decades to catch-up. "Othering" is not a verb, outside of identity politics ideology.williamglenn said:
It's always been a political union with law that has direct effect. Free movement does not equal mass migration, and to the extent that there might be temporary phenomena as the new members catch up economically, we just need to look at the bigger picture.JackJack said:
That was when the EEC did not have political union, legal supremacy or entail mass migration. Those three additional elements have meant pro-Europeanism will never be supported by people of a conservative tendency. The Euro makes it worse. The UK either need to give up control of monetary policy to a system with a terrible track record, or forever be marginalized in control of it's own law by the Eurozone powers.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.
Trying to 'other' people who are pro-European as 'not conservative' will just turn your party into a small sect.0 -
You would be the toast of my family and expecially my grand childrenSandyRentool said:
Thank you G. Some years back when I worked in London a mallard nested on the flat roof of the office. We had to call the RSPCA to catch the ducklings and take them down to Hyde Park.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lovely story and well doneSandyRentool said:Another new bird species in our garden this morning: Mallard.
Not just any old mallard, but mummy duck and her nine duckings heading from their nest site in a neighbour's garden trying to reach some water. Our garden wall presented a 'hard border', so me and wor lass had to catch the ducklings and deposit them on the other side of the wall. All was well, and off they all marched through the field...0 -
Couldn't be the fiasco we're seeing, could it?TGOHF said:
I doubt the Con share being down 10% is due anything else.kyf_100 said:Stark_Dawning said:rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
This idea that vast swathes of the country are now consumed by an burning sense of betrayal is starting to sound overdone. I can't believe that Theresa's honeymoon poll surge was driven by the belief that she was a wonky-eyed Hard Brexit absolutist. Anyway, the British tendency to delay things while we fumble around for a fix is one of our most endearing traits surely? Who wouldn't allow for a bit of typical British faffing?rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
FWIW I doubt the country is buring with a sense of Brexit betrayal,0 -
It was a lot more than vague ambition, which was why the debates about it were so intense in the 60s and early 70s.JackJack said:
The only political union in 1975 was vague ambition. The extensive veto powers still meant it was an international agreement. Freedom of movement does mean mass migration through expansion and Eurozone problems. Places like Romania will take decades to catch-up. "Othering" is not a verb, outside of identity politics ideology.williamglenn said:
It's always been a political union with law that has direct effect. Free movement does not equal mass migration, and to the extent that there might be temporary phenomena as the new members catch up economically, we just need to look at the bigger picture.JackJack said:
That was when the EEC did not have political union, legal supremacy or entail mass migration. Those three additional elements have meant pro-Europeanism will never be supported by people of a conservative tendency. The Euro makes it worse. The UK either need to give up control of monetary policy to a system with a terrible track record, or forever be marginalized in control of it's own law by the Eurozone powers.williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the main left-wing opposition, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.
Trying to 'other' people who are pro-European as 'not conservative' will just turn your party into a small sect.
The majority of migration into the UK has always been from outside the EU, and this is even more the case at present. It's not a valid argument for Brexit, especially as we haven't even started negotiating the future relationship, and it's quite likely we will have to capitulate on free movement once the real economic trade-offs become apparent.0 -
-
.
So it seemsOmnium said:0 -
You ok Hun?SandyRentool said:Christ. Sci-fi wank. PB at its worst.
Makes car racing look interesting.0 -
The fact a challenge comes from two places is not a good reason to only deal with it from one place. Both EU and non-EU migration need to be reduced and this is a sentiment felt overwhelmingly by conservative minded voters. It does not make sense for a conservative party to support a policy of rapid demographic and cultural change. Incidentally, have you ever voted Conservative in a General Election?williamglenn said:
The majority of migration into the UK has always been from outside the EU, and this is even more the case at present. It's not a valid argument for Brexit, especially as we haven't even started negotiating the future relationship, and it's quite likely we will have to capitulate on free movement once the real economic trade offs become apparent.JackJack said:
The only political union in 1975 was vague ambition. The extensive veto powers still meant it was an international agreement. Freedom of movement does mean mass migration through expansion and Eurozone problems. Places like Romania will take decades to catch-up. "Othering" is not a verb, outside of identity politics ideology.williamglenn said:
It's always been a political union with law that has direct effect. Free movement does not equal mass migration, and to the extent that there might be temporary phenomena as the new members catch up economically, we just need to look at the bigger picture.JackJack said:williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the maintion, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.
Trying to 'other' people who are pro-European as 'not conservative' will just turn your party into a small sect.
Any deal should be similar to the Canada-EU deal. Canada has, except for a few small cases, an immigration system focused overwhelmingly on high skilled people. This is why it is the only country in the world where immigrant kids do as well as native kids in the education system. They come from high skilled parents that encourage similar values in their children.0 -
I've voted Conservative in all but two elections.JackJack said:The fact a challenge comes from two places is not a good reason to only deal with it from one place. Both EU and non-EU migration need to be reduced and this is a sentiment felt overwhelmingly by conservative minded voters. It does not make sense for a conservative party to support a policy of rapid demographic and cultural change. Incidentally, have you ever voted Conservative in a General Election?
Any deal should be similar to the Canada-EU deal. Canada has, except for a few small cases, an immigration system focused overwhelmingly on high skilled people. This is why it is the only country in the world where immigrant kids do as well as native kids in the education system. They come from high skilled parents that encourage similar values in their children.
2001 for the Lib Dems in protest against Hague's Eurosceptic campaign, and 2017 for Labour in protest against Brexit.
Alienate people like me and your party deserves all it gets.0 -
Canada and Australia have a per capita immigration rate about three times our own.JackJack said:
The fact a challenge comes from two places is not a good reason to only deal with it from one place. Both EU and non-EU migration need to be reduced and this is a sentiment felt overwhelmingly by conservative minded voters. It does not make sense for a conservative party to support a policy of rapid demographic and cultural change. Incidentally, have you ever voted Conservative in a General Election?williamglenn said:
Tht.JackJack said:
The only political union in 1975williamglenn said:
It's always been a political union with law that has direct effect. Free movement does not equal mass migration, and to the extent that there might be temporary phenomena as the new members catch up economically, we just need to look at the bigger picture.JackJack said:williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the maintion, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.
Trying to 'other' people who are pro-European as 'not conservative' will just turn your party into a small sect.
Any deal should be similar to the Canada-EU deal. Canada has, except for a few small cases, an immigration system focused overwhelmingly on high skilled people. This is why it is the only country in the world where immigrant kids do as well as native kids in the education system. They come from high skilled parents that encourage similar values in their children.
It is fairly easy to operate a points system when the numbers are so huge.
Worth noting that many Leave voting areas have negligible or negative population growth. Migrants go to economically active areas.0 -
-
You could always head to ConHome instead...SandyRentool said:Christ. Sci-fi wank. PB at its worst.
Makes car racing look interesting.0 -
Its RubbishScott_P said:
You could always head to ConHome instead...SandyRentool said:Christ. Sci-fi wank. PB at its worst.
Makes car racing look interesting.0 -
Sigh. According to that left leaning Europhile rag the Telegraph, the Uk has better educated immigrants than natives, over half of them with degrees, compared to one in three for natives.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/08/mapped-how-britain-has-the-highest-level-of-skilled-migration-in/
Of their children, OECD say 58% go to higher education compared to 46% for British born.
If people were interested in reality rather than soundbites things might be a bit easier.0 -
May has made a lot of mistakes but no one could have done much better .
I’ve come to the realization that there’s no middle way possible , a softer Brexit will just keep the Eurosceptics moaning about the EU . The Remainers wondering why bother when being in the EU gives you a say and seat at the table .
Mays deal in terms of an orderly exit is the best on offer .The thing I cherish the most about being in the EU is freedom of movement and as that’s now impossible because of both main parties stance then there’s no soft enough Brexit possible with those constraints .
Freedom of movement has become such a defining issue that it seems impossible for the public to accept that even when the facts suggest EU migration is falling rapidly .
It’s not just because of the vote , that was always likely to fall as the EU economy improved especially in those eastern parts .
So where I’m at now is either we Remain as a full member or Leave and just have a trade deal with as close as relationship possible given certain constraints . But NI will have to be treated differently . The backstop is needed and if alternative measures can’t overcome that then NI needs to stay closer to the EU .
A large majority in NI don’t have a problem with that . The DUP deservedly need to get their just desserts for disgracefully backing Leave when they knew the issues it would cause . Most people in the UK don’t really care if NI has a different relationship .
I think an honest conversation is needed with the public about the trade offs , something that needed to occur during the EU ref campaign.
There is no free lunch , there are costs to leaving and you either accept those or continue to live in a fantasy where everything changes but somehow trade etc remains the same .
0 -
"Labour is considering automatic voter registration to add millions to electoral roll
All British adults could be automatically registered to vote under radical plans being considered by Jeremy Corbyn‘s Labour Party.
The move could see around seven million voters being added to the electoral register, with huge numbers of young and low income individuals automatically enrolled for the first time.
Mr Corbyn's party believes the current system of individual registration has so far failed to give a voice to huge swathes of the UK public, and Labour will now examine various models around the world."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-julian-assange-theresa-may-deal-party-farage-latest-a8866371.html0 -
...they are very big on duckling talk.Scott_P said:
You could always head to ConHome instead...SandyRentool said:Christ. Sci-fi wank. PB at its worst.
Makes car racing look interesting.0 -
It may well suit both major parties to play the EU elections very low key and to treat them as non-events. They have been largely ignored in the past anyway.0
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Australia and Canada (Even allowing for their desert interiors and frozen north respectively) have way more room than the UK !Foxy said:
Canada and Australia have a per capita immigration rate about three times our own.JackJack said:
The fact a challenge comes from two places is not a good reason to only deal with it from one place. Both EU and non-EU migration need to be reduced and this is a sentiment felt overwhelmingly by conservative minded voters. It does not make sense for a conservative party to support a policy of rapid demographic and cultural change. Incidentally, have you ever voted Conservative in a General Election?williamglenn said:
Tht.JackJack said:
The only political union in 1975williamglenn said:
It's always been a political union with law that has direct effect. Free movement does not equal mass migration, and to the extent that there might be temporary phenomena as the new members catch up economically, we just need to look at the bigger picture.JackJack said:williamglenn said:
The best chance for the Conservative Party to have a long term future is by being more pro-European than the maintion, as they were when Thatcher won her landslide victories.JackJack said:
This comment is an example of why May is wrong to try to court Remainers. Even were she to fully revoke, Remainers would not start voting Tory in significant numbers. But by pushing Leavers out of the party she is abandoning her core vote.AlastairMeeks said:
How sad.rottenborough said:Deeply worrying report from Tory heartlands:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/12/will-betrayed-leaver-heartlands-ever-forgive-tories/
It is very clear that if the Conservative Party wishes to survive, it can not extend again past October.
Trying to 'other' people who are pro-European as 'not conservative' will just turn your party into a small sect.
Any deal should be similar to the Canada-EU deal. Canada has, except for a few small cases, an immigration system focused overwhelmingly on high skilled people. This is why it is the only country in the world where immigrant kids do as well as native kids in the education system. They come from high skilled parents that encourage similar values in their children.
It is fairly easy to operate a points system when the numbers are so huge.
Worth noting that many Leave voting areas have negligible or negative population growth. Migrants go to economically active areas.0 -
Politics geeks have other geeky interests, shocker.SandyRentool said:Christ. Sci-fi wank. PB at its worst.
Makes car racing look interesting.0 -
So you think the Conservatives deserve 42% of the vote.williamglenn said:
I've voted Conservative in all but two elections.JackJack said:The fact a challenge comes from two places is not a good reason to only deal with it from one place. Both EU and non-EU migration need to be reduced and this is a sentiment felt overwhelmingly by conservative minded voters. It does not make sense for a conservative party to support a policy of rapid demographic and cultural change. Incidentally, have you ever voted Conservative in a General Election?
Any deal should be similar to the Canada-EU deal. Canada has, except for a few small cases, an immigration system focused overwhelmingly on high skilled people. This is why it is the only country in the world where immigrant kids do as well as native kids in the education system. They come from high skilled parents that encourage similar values in their children.
2001 for the Lib Dems in protest against Hague's Eurosceptic campaign, and 2017 for Labour in protest against Brexit.
Alienate people like me and your party deserves all it gets.
I think they'll accept that.0 -
I am much on the same pagenico67 said:May has made a lot of mistakes but no one could have done much better .
I’ve come to the realization that there’s no middle way possible , a softer Brexit will just keep the Eurosceptics moaning about the EU . The Remainers wondering why bother when being in the EU gives you a say and seat at the table .
Mays deal in terms of an orderly exit is the best on offer .The thing I cherish the most about being in the EU is freedom of movement and as that’s now impossible because of both main parties stance then there’s no soft enough Brexit possible with those constraints .
Freedom of movement has become such a defining issue that it seems impossible for the public to accept that even when the facts suggest EU migration is falling rapidly .
It’s not just because of the vote , that was always likely to fall as the EU economy improved especially in those eastern parts .
So where I’m at now is either we Remain as a full member or Leave and just have a trade deal with as close as relationship possible given certain constraints . But NI will have to be treated differently . The backstop is needed and if alternative measures can’t overcome that then NI needs to stay closer to the EU .
A large majority in NI don’t have a problem with that . The DUP deservedly need to get their just desserts for disgracefully backing Leave when they knew the issues it would cause . Most people in the UK don’t really care if NI has a different relationship .
I think an honest conversation is needed with the public about the trade offs , something that needed to occur during the EU ref campaign.
There is no free lunch , there are costs to leaving and you either accept those or continue to live in a fantasy where everything changes but somehow trade etc remains the same .0 -
The circumstances of 2017 will never exist again.another_richard said:
So you think the Conservatives deserve 42% of the vote.williamglenn said:
I've voted Conservative in all but two elections.JackJack said:The fact a challenge comes from two places is not a good reason to only deal with it from one place. Both EU and non-EU migration need to be reduced and this is a sentiment felt overwhelmingly by conservative minded voters. It does not make sense for a conservative party to support a policy of rapid demographic and cultural change. Incidentally, have you ever voted Conservative in a General Election?
Any deal should be similar to the Canada-EU deal. Canada has, except for a few small cases, an immigration system focused overwhelmingly on high skilled people. This is why it is the only country in the world where immigrant kids do as well as native kids in the education system. They come from high skilled parents that encourage similar values in their children.
2001 for the Lib Dems in protest against Hague's Eurosceptic campaign, and 2017 for Labour in protest against Brexit.
Alienate people like me and your party deserves all it gets.
I think they'll accept that.0 -
As Labour won't allow voter ID, this just their way of massively inflating their fraudulent votes.AndyJS said:"Labour is considering automatic voter registration to add millions to electoral roll
All British adults could be automatically registered to vote under radical plans being considered by Jeremy Corbyn‘s Labour Party.
The move could see around seven million voters being added to the electoral register, with huge numbers of young and low income individuals automatically enrolled for the first time.
Mr Corbyn's party believes the current system of individual registration has so far failed to give a voice to huge swathes of the UK public, and Labour will now examine various models around the world."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-julian-assange-theresa-may-deal-party-farage-latest-a8866371.html0