politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Punters make it an 81% chance that the UK will participate in

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

Point of Order from Cooper now the Bill is agreed.

Formality of Royal assent the only remaining hurdle.

Benn asks whether assent will be given tonight. Speaker hopes so, says steps are in train.

In which case motion under the Act will be taken tomorrow.

About the last piece of drama Brexit hasn't had is HM the Q keeling over before royal assent is given.....

Christ, it doesn't bear thinking about. Blessings to the health of Her Majesty.

Well I'm sure HM The King would get round to giving it assent immediately after the swearing of the oath.

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

I think it still doesn't mean No Deal doesn't happen in 4 days' time if the EU doesn't agree to extend the date.

kle4 said:

Any idea when we might hear when Change UK's application for party status goes through? Nominations will be needed in double quick time.

As I said downthread, they are already interviewing, although how they got nominations is a mystery.

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

Is Yvette Cooper now the de facto PM?

_Anazina_ said:

Richard

I think Mike was probably right - at the time. Europe wasn’t salient. What the referendum did was whip up strong feeling on both sides, that were the preserve of a few ultra engaged eurosceptics and nerdy Liberal Democrats prior to 2016.

That doesn't track for me. It's essentially saying the feelings were created by the referendum, which seems implausible. Once given the chance, people let us know what they thought. We might as well say the strong pro-EU feeling we often see now is not salient, it's just been whipped up by the ultra engaged because of the tense political situation.

notme2 said:

Nigelb said:

@ydoethur might enjoy this story in a perverse fashion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47853438
Ofsted's head of research has complained on Twitter of being turned down in his application for "settled status" in the UK after Brexit.
Professor Daniel Muijs, a senior figure in England's education watchdog, has held posts in Southampton, Manchester, Newcastle and Warwick Universities.
Originally from Belgium, he has worked in the UK for more than 20 years.

Almost certainly failed to complete properly. Missing information is the usual culprit.

You ever filled one out ?

TGOHF said:

_Anazina_ said:

I suggest you source a variety of grapes that is easier on the palate.

You wouldn’t catch me dead on a March what a waste of a day - hope you enjoyed the million loser remain day out - bet it looked awesome on insta.

You sound very bitter about it all. Makes it all the more comical.

OblitusSumMe said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

Is Yvette Cooper now the de facto PM?

She’s actually a good candidate, moderate, refreshingly normal, reassuringly mundane, but with several times the IQ and an order of magnitude more EQ than May.

ExiledInScotland said:

isam said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Sean_F said:

IanB2 said:

Recidivist said:

Sean_F said:

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

isam said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.

Yes and Farage could get a majority conceivably on just 35 to 40% of the vote

Look how the SNP cleaned up when they lost the Indy Ref... not Brexiting is surely similar enough to draw conclusions from that?

For the Euro's I meant

Agreed for the Euro`s certainly maybe beyond

Nah. The SNP achieved what Boris hoped to - a sympathy surge for a heroic near miss.

Actually winning the referendum and then having it demonstrated to the world that your success has reduced the country's politics to the abject and pitiful humiliation we are now living through is another matter entirely.

There won't be a big sympathy surge when this fiasco is put out of its misery.

If you recall, the SNP surge was after losing Sindyref.

Remain parties may get a similar landslide in the next GE.

I expect that if Brexit goes ahead, then Remain voters will be very fired up to vote, and if it is cancelled, Leave voters will be similarly fired up.

Is there much fight left in the leave voters whatever happens? The ones I know seem totally demoralised or have forgotten the whole business already.

+1

Only the enthusiasts are enraged. Everyone else just wants this to end.

It's a variant on the argument we used to get pre-2016, that no one cared about the EU. It transpired that they did. You are passionately pro EU so why assume that your opponents care any less deeply?

Yep I remember all those posts from Mike and his 'No one gives a Monkey's' comments. Turns out they did after all.

It’s incredible that after all the polling disasters of this decade, people still buy into the media and political bubble noise that fuels, and is fuelled by, them

They will wait to see which Brexit supporting party they can vote for (none like the way UKIP has gone btw).It won't be the Conservatives, for many the first time in their lives.

An exceptionally intelligent course of action - letting Labour take the reins of power, who apart from Corbyn are passionately pro-EU and against almost everything Leavers want. Great plan!

kle4 said:

_Anazina_ said:

Richard

I think Mike was probably right - at the time. Europe wasn’t salient. What the referendum did was whip up strong feeling on both sides, that were the preserve of a few ultra engaged eurosceptics and nerdy Liberal Democrats prior to 2016.

That doesn't track for me. It's essentially saying the feelings were created by the referendum, which seems implausible. Once given the chance, people let us know what they thought. We might as well say the strong pro-EU feeling we often see now is not salient, it's just been whipped up by the ultra engaged because of the tense political situation.

Indeed I am saying exactly that - it is the case on both sides.

TheValiant said:

Brexit. Brexit never changes.

(Can you guess what I'm playing tonight?)

It's good preparation for No Deal, let me tell you. Save me a radroach!

Looking forward to seeing what's in the Tory EU election manifesto

HYUFD said:

_Anazina_ said:

Chris_A said:

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

Point of Order from Cooper now the Bill is agreed.

Formality of Royal assent the only remaining hurdle.

Benn asks whether assent will be given tonight. Speaker hopes so, says steps are in train.

In which case motion under the Act will be taken tomorrow.

About the last piece of drama Brexit hasn't had is HM the Q keeling over before royal assent is given.....

Christ, it doesn't bear thinking about. Blessings to the health of Her Majesty.

Well I'm sure HM The King would get round to giving it assent immediately after the swearing of the oath.

It’s striking how many monarchists loathe the prospect of Charlie Boy as top banana, as if the central premise of their beloved system were something other than genetic lottery. Funny old world.

I also know several republicans who like Charles for his strong record on tackling climate change, the environment, his interest in the arts etc even if they dislike the monarchy as an institution

HYUFD said:

_Anazina_ said:

Chris_A said:

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

Point of Order from Cooper now the Bill is agreed.

Formality of Royal assent the only remaining hurdle.

Benn asks whether assent will be given tonight. Speaker hopes so, says steps are in train.

In which case motion under the Act will be taken tomorrow.

About the last piece of drama Brexit hasn't had is HM the Q keeling over before royal assent is given.....

Christ, it doesn't bear thinking about. Blessings to the health of Her Majesty.

Well I'm sure HM The King would get round to giving it assent immediately after the swearing of the oath.

It’s striking how many monarchists loathe the prospect of Charlie Boy as top banana, as if the central premise of their beloved system were something other than genetic lottery. Funny old world.

I also know several republicans who like Charles for his strong record on tackling climate change, the environment, his interest in the arts etc even if they dislike the monarchy as an institution

I’m one such person.

TheValiant said:

Brexit. Brexit never changes.

(Can you guess what I'm playing tonight?)

There's more hope in most of those games than in Brexit thesedays.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

_Anazina_ said:

Chris_A said:

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

Point of Order from Cooper now the Bill is agreed.

Formality of Royal assent the only remaining hurdle.

Benn asks whether assent will be given tonight. Speaker hopes so, says steps are in train.

In which case motion under the Act will be taken tomorrow.

About the last piece of drama Brexit hasn't had is HM the Q keeling over before royal assent is given.....

Christ, it doesn't bear thinking about. Blessings to the health of Her Majesty.

Well I'm sure HM The King would get round to giving it assent immediately after the swearing of the oath.

It’s striking how many monarchists loathe the prospect of Charlie Boy as top banana, as if the central premise of their beloved system were something other than genetic lottery. Funny old world.

I also know several republicans who like Charles for his strong record on tackling climate change, the environment, his interest in the arts etc even if they dislike the monarchy as an institution

Monarchy = jobs for life = socialism

I've never understood that gag of yours. When I think of socialism my brain doesn't immediately go to the idea of jobs for life.

Isn't it great that "by automatic operation of law" Mrs May is mandated to ask for an extension.

_Anazina_ said:

Richard

I think Mike was probably right - at the time. Europe wasn’t salient. What the referendum did was whip up strong feeling on both sides, that were the preserve of a few ultra engaged eurosceptics and nerdy Liberal Democrats prior to 2016.

Nah. It was always clear that it was a rubbish line to take. It was based on the fact that the EU always appeared a fair way down the list of priorities in the 'concerns' polls that were run each month. But Mike's thesis always seemed to me to be based on the idea that people couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. Yes there were issues that appeared higher up the list - usually based on whatever was the most prominent news item at that time - but it doesn't mean people didn't care about the other issues. By Mike's reasoning the fact that the EU always appeared higher up the list than Old People's Care or the Environment should have meant people didn't give a Monkey's about them either. Which is clearly rubbish.

And of course it was that sort of thinking that meant the issue was ignored or dismissed as only concerning fringe lunatics and which greatly contributed to the referendum result.

Europhiles are now making the same mistake again. They mistake disgust with our politicians and weariness about the whole process with a change of view about the EU. So if we do not leave they will think they can dismiss the whole thing as an aberration. It is a very dangerous view to take.

Chris_A said:

Isn't it great that "by automatic operation of law" Mrs May is mandated to ask for an extension.

Cue Tory members and MPs furious at May personally that there is going to be an extension.

_Anazina_ said:

OblitusSumMe said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

Is Yvette Cooper now the de facto PM?

She’s actually a good candidate, moderate, refreshingly normal, reassuringly mundane, but with several times the IQ and an order of magnitude more EQ than May.

I think you've just demonstrated that you don't understand much about intelligence.

Ignoring the fact that IQ isn't a good measure of intelligence...

Let's say Cooper has an IQ of 140 (Mensa level).

"Several times" = a minimum of 3x

I very much doubt that May has an IQ of less than 50.

Richard_Tyndall said:

_Anazina_ said:

Richard

I think Mike was probably right - at the time. Europe wasn’t salient. What the referendum did was whip up strong feeling on both sides, that were the preserve of a few ultra engaged eurosceptics and nerdy Liberal Democrats prior to 2016.

Nah. It was always clear that it was a rubbish line to take. It was based on the fact that the EU always appeared a fair way down the list of priorities in the 'concerns' polls that were run each month. But Mike's thesis always seemed to me to be based on the idea that people couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. Yes there were issues that appeared higher up the list - usually based on whatever was the most prominent news item at that time - but it doesn't mean people didn't care about the other issues. By Mike's reasoning the fact that the EU always appeared higher up the list than Old People's Care or the Environment should have meant people didn't give a Monkey's about them either. Which is clearly rubbish.

And of course it was that sort of thinking that meant the issue was ignored or dismissed as only concerning fringe lunatics and which greatly contributed to the referendum result.

Europhiles are now making the same mistake again. They mistake disgust with our politicians and weariness about the whole process with a change of view about the EU. So if we do not leave they will think they can dismiss the whole thing as an aberration. It is a very dangerous view to take.

While I think there may have been a bit of a change that the europhiles are not making the same level as mistake as you think they are making, I think your first paragraph is absolutely right. It wasn't a high priority, but people clearly cared.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Europhiles are now making the same mistake again. They mistake disgust with our politicians and weariness about the whole process with a change of view about the EU. So if we do not leave they will think they can dismiss the whole thing as an aberration. It is a very dangerous view to take.

They never learn...

Charles said:

_Anazina_ said:

OblitusSumMe said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

Is Yvette Cooper now the de facto PM?

She’s actually a good candidate, moderate, refreshingly normal, reassuringly mundane, but with several times the IQ and an order of magnitude more EQ than May.

I think you've just demonstrated that you don't understand much about intelligence.

Ignoring the fact that IQ isn't a good measure of intelligence...

Let's say Cooper has an IQ of 140 (Mensa level).

"Several times" = a minimum of 3x

I very much doubt that May has an IQ of less than 50.

It was a figure of speech, shorthand. Not to be taken literally.

GIN1138 said:

She can seek but will she find...

It also says nothing about what level of effort she should put into the seeking.


Dear Tuskie,

Give us an extension. I have no plan for what follows.


Insincerely,

Tessa.


ps we should have left Poland to the Russians.

ExiledInScotland said:

_Anazina_ said:

kle4 said:

_Anazina_ said:

Richard

I think Mike was probably right - at the time. Europe wasn’t salient. What the referendum did was whip up strong feeling on both sides, that were the preserve of a few ultra engaged eurosceptics and nerdy Liberal Democrats prior to 2016.

That doesn't track for me. It's essentially saying the feelings were created by the referendum, which seems implausible. Once given the chance, people let us know what they thought. We might as well say the strong pro-EU feeling we often see now is not salient, it's just been whipped up by the ultra engaged because of the tense political situation.

Indeed I am saying exactly that - it is the case on both sides.

I agree with Kle4. His point matches an interesting read on Unherd today: https://unherd.com/2019/04/brexit-isnt-a-crisis-of-listening/

"This can’t be resolved by telling a group of people who have been ignored for generations that they have, once again, to shut up and pay heed to the grown ups."

The home-spun wisdom is that to show you have truly listened to an argument so that you understand it, you must be able to be able to repeat it, summarising the thrust. But most Leavers could pretty effectively summarise the Remain position just as most Remainers could summarise the Leave position. This is little more that clever ventriloquy: it’s not that we don’t understand each other. It’s that we do not agree and neither side wants to lose

Spanish elections in a few weeks let us not forget. More sabre rattling over Gibraltar to be expected?

Does the Labour leadership want a long delay? This is the key to what happens next. I don't know the answer.

rottenborough said:

"Does the Queen give Royal Assent in person?
The Queen can give Royal Assent in person but this has not happened since 1854. The Queen's agreement to give her assent to a Bill is a formality."

HoCommons website

It's usually given by Royal Commission at prorogation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpdIj7tcDCg (the assent bit from 5:58 onwards) but tonight was given by the abbreviated procedure under the Royal Assent Act 1967

Charles said:

_Anazina_ said:

OblitusSumMe said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

Is Yvette Cooper now the de facto PM?

She’s actually a good candidate, moderate, refreshingly normal, reassuringly mundane, but with several times the IQ and an order of magnitude more EQ than May.

I think you've just demonstrated that you don't understand much about intelligence.

Ignoring the fact that IQ isn't a good measure of intelligence...

Let's say Cooper has an IQ of 140 (Mensa level).

"Several times" = a minimum of 3x

I very much doubt that May has an IQ of less than 50.

1/3rd the intelligence of someone at around 140 odd IQ is ~90 not 50.

notme2 said:

Nigelb said:

@ydoethur might enjoy this story in a perverse fashion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47853438
Ofsted's head of research has complained on Twitter of being turned down in his application for "settled status" in the UK after Brexit.
Professor Daniel Muijs, a senior figure in England's education watchdog, has held posts in Southampton, Manchester, Newcastle and Warwick Universities.
Originally from Belgium, he has worked in the UK for more than 20 years.

Almost certainly failed to complete properly. Missing information is the usual culprit.

An Ofsted big cheese being failed because of an item of missing paperwork?

They don’t like it up em...

notme2 said:

Nigelb said:

@ydoethur might enjoy this story in a perverse fashion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47853438
Ofsted's head of research has complained on Twitter of being turned down in his application for "settled status" in the UK after Brexit.
Professor Daniel Muijs, a senior figure in England's education watchdog, has held posts in Southampton, Manchester, Newcastle and Warwick Universities.
Originally from Belgium, he has worked in the UK for more than 20 years.

Almost certainly failed to complete properly. Missing information is the usual culprit.

OFSTED senior official brought down by poor paperwork.
Teachers everywhere raise a bottle.

Richard_Nabavi said:

kle4 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Does the Labour leadership want a long delay? This is the key to what happens next. I don't know the answer.

Surely the answer is yes? Labour all want a GE, and most of the membership want a referendum, either way the leadership would need a long delay.

The membership wants a referendum, but the leadership doesn't.

Yes, but as I suggested they do want a GE, so in this case the interests of both require a long delay.

GIN1138 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Does the Labour leadership want a long delay? This is the key to what happens next. I don't know the answer.

Well if they've got any sense they won't go anywhere near a Theresa May deal... Best policy for Lab I'd have thought is just to leave May and Tories wriggling on the hook...

There is no way Jezza will end up doing a deal. In his mindset that would be like one of his heroes, say Erich Honecker, joining the London Stock Exchange.

"My Lords and members of the House of Commons. Her Majesty not thinking fit personally to be present here at this time has been pleased to cause a commission to be issued under the great seal and thereby giving her royal assent to diverse acts titles whereof or particularly mentioned and by the said commission has commanded us to declare and notify her royal assent to the said several acts in the presence of you the lords and commons assembled for that purpose and has also assigned to us under the lords directed full power and authority in her majesty's name to prorogue this present parliament whichcommission you are now hear read"

Pulpstar said:

Charles said:

_Anazina_ said:

OblitusSumMe said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

Is Yvette Cooper now the de facto PM?

She’s actually a good candidate, moderate, refreshingly normal, reassuringly mundane, but with several times the IQ and an order of magnitude more EQ than May.

I think you've just demonstrated that you don't understand much about intelligence.

Ignoring the fact that IQ isn't a good measure of intelligence...

Let's say Cooper has an IQ of 140 (Mensa level).

"Several times" = a minimum of 3x

I very much doubt that May has an IQ of less than 50.

1/3rd the intelligence of someone at around 140 odd IQ is ~90 not 50.

Presumably IQ is a standard deviation then? I was just using the methodology that the ordinary person would have used.

Richard_Nabavi said:

kle4 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

kle4 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Does the Labour leadership want a long delay? This is the key to what happens next. I don't know the answer.

Surely the answer is yes? Labour all want a GE, and most of the membership want a referendum, either way the leadership would need a long delay.

The membership wants a referendum, but the leadership doesn't.

Yes, but as I suggested they do want a GE, so in this case the interests of both require a long delay.

Do they? Not sure about that. Signing the WA could well lead to a GE, whereas a long delay could mean a referendum instead.

I'm thinking out loud here - I genuinely don't know.

I'm merely guessing of course, but while the WA could well lead to a GE - would, probably - the cost would be to cause ructions in the party. Having a long delay leaves open the door for both a referendum and a GE - many Tories seem eager for one, under a new leader of course - and thus the unity of the party is preserved, for a time.

In Brexit, it seems wise to see which is the easiest path, and which is less politically damaging. Usually that seems to be kicking the can.

rottenborough said:

Letters Patent job:

https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1115377236864057345

https://twitter.com/change_britain/status/1115295445297901572?s=21

ExiledInScotland said:

I agree with Kle4. His point matches an interesting read on Unherd today: https://unherd.com/2019/04/brexit-isnt-a-crisis-of-listening/

"This can’t be resolved by telling a group of people who have been ignored for generations that they have, once again, to shut up and pay heed to the grown ups."

This was the standout quote for me: "Not that we don’t understand each other. It’s that we do not agree and neither side wants to lose." I noted Matthew Goodwin's (and many other Leavers) contention that Remain did not listen to or misunderstood Leave. So I read his stuff. And I simply did not share his stance (although I remain an admirer of his analysis). And I assume the same is true of Leavers who have tried to understand Remainers. Even after we strip away the stupid, the malevolent, and the overprivileged, we still have points on which we disagree.

[Parenthetically, this is why I think "playing for a draw" - May's deal - is the best way forward]

OnlyLivingBoy said:

williamglenn said:

nico67 said:

Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .

Some of the callers aren't happy - "It should be simple. It was simple when we went over during the war."

And you can bet most of those callers weren't even alive during the war. People really need to get over WW2. For my kids it's as current as Queen Victoria was when I was their age - in other words, it might as well be ancient history. I mean, it's good to learn about it and learn from it, but Leavers seem to be totally ignorant about it anyway (eg their mythologising that we won it on our own) so they really need to STFU about it.

And WW2 was many things..."simple" wasn't one of them...

viewcode said:

ExiledInScotland said:

I agree with Kle4. His point matches an interesting read on Unherd today: https://unherd.com/2019/04/brexit-isnt-a-crisis-of-listening/

"This can’t be resolved by telling a group of people who have been ignored for generations that they have, once again, to shut up and pay heed to the grown ups."

This was the standout quote for me: "Not that we don’t understand each other. It’s that we do not agree and neither side wants to lose." I noted Matthew Goodwin's (and many other Leavers) contention that Remain did not listen to or misunderstood Leave. So I read his stuff. And I simply did not share his stance (although I remain an admirer of his analysis). And I assume the same is true of Leavers who have tried to understand Remainers. Even after we strip away the stupid, the malevolent, and the overprivileged, we still have points on which we disagree.

[Parenthetically, this is why I think "playing for a draw" - May's deal - is the best way forward]

Yep. There are many thoughtful, obviously intelligent and polite, informed Leavers on this board. I do not, and can not accept their rationale for their vote. Not because it is stupid or unpleasant, or because I don't necessarily share their analysis of the situation that drove it.
Purely because we fundamentally disagree on the remedy.
Not sure how we get past that TBH.

Charles said:

Pulpstar said:

Charles said:

_Anazina_ said:

OblitusSumMe said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1115375862009016320

Is Yvette Cooper now the de facto PM?

She’s actually a good candidate, moderate, refreshingly normal, reassuringly mundane, but with several times the IQ and an order of magnitude more EQ than May.

I think you've just demonstrated that you don't understand much about intelligence.

Ignoring the fact that IQ isn't a good measure of intelligence...

Let's say Cooper has an IQ of 140 (Mensa level).

"Several times" = a minimum of 3x

I very much doubt that May has an IQ of less than 50.

1/3rd the intelligence of someone at around 140 odd IQ is ~90 not 50.

Presumably IQ is a standard deviation then? I was just using the methodology that the ordinary person would have used.

That is err... self evident.

Chris_A said:

Isn't it great that "by automatic operation of law" Mrs May is mandated to ask for an extension.

Wasn’t she essentially going to do what the new act requires anyway?

dixiedean said:

viewcode said:

ExiledInScotland said:

I agree with Kle4. His point matches an interesting read on Unherd today: https://unherd.com/2019/04/brexit-isnt-a-crisis-of-listening/

"This can’t be resolved by telling a group of people who have been ignored for generations that they have, once again, to shut up and pay heed to the grown ups."

This was the standout quote for me: "Not that we don’t understand each other. It’s that we do not agree and neither side wants to lose." I noted Matthew Goodwin's (and many other Leavers) contention that Remain did not listen to or misunderstood Leave. So I read his stuff. And I simply did not share his stance (although I remain an admirer of his analysis). And I assume the same is true of Leavers who have tried to understand Remainers. Even after we strip away the stupid, the malevolent, and the overprivileged, we still have points on which we disagree.

[Parenthetically, this is why I think "playing for a draw" - May's deal - is the best way forward]

Yep. There are many thoughtful, obviously intelligent and polite, informed Leavers on this board. I do not, and can not accept their rationale for their vote. Not because it is stupid or unpleasant, or because I don't necessarily share their analysis of the situation that drove it.
Purely because we fundamentally disagree on the remedy.
Not sure how we get past that TBH.

It's striking how few people seem willing to move to a different level of thinking about the question beyond the one that informed their initial views.

Even though Peter Oborne hasn't rejected all of his original arguments for being a long-standing Brexiteer, he's realised that there are other dimensions to the question that he didn't consider, and now believes they may overwhelm his other arguments. That's why his article was significant. Hopefully it can encourage others to do the same.

blueblue said:

TheValiant said:

Brexit. Brexit never changes.

(Can you guess what I'm playing tonight?)

It's good preparation for No Deal, let me tell you. Save me a radroach!

Pork N Beans. Sugar Bombs... and Abraxo Cleaner. All good for the stomach. Especially Abraxo Cleaner.

Pulpstar said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1115343945838616576?s=20

The quid pro quo surely has to be May doing a whip for a Customs Union.

Oh, Jezza's wet dream: a vote on 2nd ref, which he whips for, and still loses.

rottenborough said:

Pulpstar said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1115343945838616576?s=20

The quid pro quo surely has to be May doing a whip for a Customs Union.

Oh, Jezza's wet dream: a vote on 2nd ref, which he whips for, and still loses.

The Conservatives will make it a free vote and make sure enough vote for it.

GIN1138 said:

isam said:

rottenborough said:

Letters Patent job:

https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1115377236864057345

https://twitter.com/change_britain/status/1115295445297901572?s=21

Number of people wanting her out of her 70% Leave voting Normanton Pontefract parliamentary constituency now far greater than her majority in said constituency...

https://www.change.org/p/normanton-pontefract-and-castleford-labour-party-deselect-mp-yvette-cooper-from-our-constituency

Er, yes, but no restriction to constituents. This is a subset of the X million Leavers around the country.

NickPalmer said:

GIN1138 said:

isam said:

rottenborough said:

Letters Patent job:

https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1115377236864057345

https://twitter.com/change_britain/status/1115295445297901572?s=21

Number of people wanting her out of her 70% Leave voting Normanton Pontefract parliamentary constituency now far greater than her majority in said constituency...

https://www.change.org/p/normanton-pontefract-and-castleford-labour-party-deselect-mp-yvette-cooper-from-our-constituency

Er, yes, but no restriction to constituents. This is a subset of the X million Leavers around the country.

Still pretty funny though...

dixiedean said:

rottenborough said:

dixiedean said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

williamglenn said:

nico67 said:

Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .

Some of the callers aren't happy - "It should be simple. It was simple when we went over during the war."

And you can bet most of those callers weren't even alive during the war. People really need to get over WW2. For my kids it's as current as Queen Victoria was when I was their age - in other words, it might as well be ancient history. I mean, it's good to learn about it and learn from it, but Leavers seem to be totally ignorant about it anyway (eg their mythologising that we won it on our own) so they really need to STFU about it.

And WW2 was many things..."simple" wasn't one of them...

You would need to be at least 90, by my reckoning (and that is if you fought the war at age 16) to be entitled to go on about it was easy or simple in the war.

And. My guess is, if you were that venerable, you would be unlikely to have described it in such terms.

Yep. Exactly.

My oldest relatives are now the Suez generation (as in sent there on national service).

Damn few left who fought in the 2nd war.

Francois and his fellow idiots claim the patriots mantle, but actually they have no idea what they are talking about.

dixiedean said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

williamglenn said:

nico67 said:

Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .

Some of the callers aren't happy - "It should be simple. It was simple when we went over during the war."

And you can bet most of those callers weren't even alive during the war. People really need to get over WW2. For my kids it's as current as Queen Victoria was when I was their age - in other words, it might as well be ancient history. I mean, it's good to learn about it and learn from it, but Leavers seem to be totally ignorant about it anyway (eg their mythologising that we won it on our own) so they really need to STFU about it.

And WW2 was many things..."simple" wasn't one of them...

Yup. Having watched the whole of the World at War a couple of times, the thing that strikes you is that it really was a descent into hell. It starts with men in frock coats waving pieces of paper, and ends with the horrors of Auschwitz and Hiroshima - naked corpses piled high in the Polish snow, people burned alive by the detonation of a horrific new weapon in a clear Pacific sky. The kind of glib crap that Leavers come out with about the war is sickening really.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

dixiedean said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

williamglenn said:

nico67 said:

Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .

Some of the callers aren't happy - "It should be simple. It was simple when we went over during the war."

And you can bet most of those callers weren't even alive during the war. People really need to get over WW2. For my kids it's as current as Queen Victoria was when I was their age - in other words, it might as well be ancient history. I mean, it's good to learn about it and learn from it, but Leavers seem to be totally ignorant about it anyway (eg their mythologising that we won it on our own) so they really need to STFU about it.

And WW2 was many things..."simple" wasn't one of them...

Yup. Having watched the whole of the World at War a couple of times, the thing that strikes you is that it really was a descent into hell. It starts with men in frock coats waving pieces of paper, and ends with the horrors of Auschwitz and Hiroshima - naked corpses piled high in the Polish snow, people burned alive by the detonation of a horrific new weapon in a clear Pacific sky. The kind of glib crap that Leavers come out with about the war is sickening really.

To me, it looks increasingly like Brexit will be written up by historians as the last gasp hurrah of empire, before the final reality dawned.