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He is insane - and a complete ideologue. Amazing the conservatives now seem to have such contempt for businessBenpointer said:John Redwood on the possibility we might not exit with No Deal after all: "business now, in many cases, feels very let down that they are not being able to use all their contingencies, which they have spent good money on."
What planet is he on?0 -
Drax telling to cleanse himself of the deal ordure.0
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Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy loons that wanted her to stay.0
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Labour successfully neutralised Brexit as an issue, by not opposition it overtly, and the Conservatives screwed up the campaign.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.0 -
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. Brexit is undeliverable in any practical sense, and even if it were somehow delivered, wouldn't get them what they wanted in the first place.GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...0 -
Nigel can see some benefits from the Euro elections (for his bank balance)
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/11153599529677332500 -
In a a messy multi-party election, the winner might win a majority of seats on a third of the vote.HYUFD said:
For the moment, if we ended up with Revoke and no Brexit at all (never mind soft Brexit or even EUref2) we could see Leavers surge to Farage`s new Brexit PartySean_F said:
But, the vote is being split between minor parties, rather than any one minor party benefitting. Which means that the big two will sail on serenely in any election decided by FPTP.HYUFD said:
Not what the latest polls show, all conducted after May's further extension announcement, 2 have the Tories ahead by 1 point, the other Labour and the Tories tied.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
It is minor parties benefiting not Labour as No Deal Leavers go to UKIP and the Brexit Party and pro Revoke or EUref2 Remainers go to the LDs or CUK
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If you're wondering whether it's easier to lose your own voters or gain someone else's, have a look at today's polling.GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...0 -
It's not impossible a huge meteorite lands on Europe on Friday afternoon and makes the Brexit question redundant...HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
...it's unlikely, admittedly, but not as unlikely as the Brexit party winning the next GE.0 -
Well he would. A big salary, and lots of publicity for him.HYUFD said:Nigel can see some benefits from the Euro elections (for his bank balance)
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/11153599529677332500 -
Not impossible. But extraordinarily unlikely. Good to think these things through though.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.0 -
Nonsense. Only a tiny minority of people are angry. Hence the derisory support for Farage's PR stunts and the low vote for UKIP in the by-election.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
It's like Helmer thinking a million voters are going to write BREXIT in big letters on their ballot papers. These people sit in the saloon bar moaning to each other and then stagger home thinking they speak for millions.0 -
What would have changed if May had been replaced ?TGOHF said:Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy that vote her to stay.
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That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...
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Yes, I know - so why should a 2019 election be different, especially now that the virtual impossibility of delivering Brexit without collapsing the Government has become clear?Sean_F said:
Labour successfully neutralised Brexit as an issue, by not opposition it overtly, and the Conservatives screwed up the campaign.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If the voters wanted to actually Brexit, they shouldn't have broken the Government's arms and legs in GE 2017 before telling them to run a marathon.0 -
Division will close in a few minutes. Amendments likely to carry - it looks like the Brexiters are opposing simply to create ping pong with the Lords.0
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These backbenchers are idiots if they think the only problem is May. They also need a mirror. She's awful, I don't see how her going will make a difference for the worse frankly, but they are kidding themselves that all will be well with her gone.Scott_P said:
I detect anger, but only really from Tories. And they are the only ones who will suffer if we revoke. And it's entirely self inflicted of course.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If there are larger swellings of anger and consequences to be had from revoking, certainly we will not see it until it happens, in much the same way we did not see such fervent pro-EU support much prior to voting to Leave.0 -
Just about everything could have been far better - she is awful- devoid of any leadership skills.another_richard said:
What would have changed if May had been replaced ?TGOHF said:Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy that vote her to stay.
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Whatever the outcome on Brexit, I think most normal people would be happy not to hear about it for a long time, so the chance of this outcome has to be pretty close to zero.IanB2 said:
Nonsense. Only a tiny minority of people are angry. Hence the derisory support for Farage's PR stunts and the low vote for UKIP in the by-election.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.0 -
She should troll them. 'You know the process for challenging if you're unhappy with me, I suggest you avail yourselves of it'rottenborough said:0 -
As the Leave vote did not consolidate around one party, at least a quarter of Leave voters voted Labour for example.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If Brexit is revoked Leavers could consolidate almost entirely around the Brexit Party, while Remainers split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs.
The same scenario played out in Scotland in 2015 as Nationalists consolidated almost entirely around the SNP, while Unionists split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs
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You have probably forgotten the dementia tax (arf!).blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
She lost 5% throughout the campaign.
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So you can't give any details.TGOHF said:
Just about everything could have been far better - she is awful- devoid of any leadership skills.another_richard said:
What would have changed if May had been replaced ?TGOHF said:Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy that vote her to stay.
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Nah, I think voters somewhat naively trusted the politicians to do what they said they'd do.blueblue said:
Yes, I know - so why should a 2019 election be different, especially now that the virtual impossibility of delivering Brexit without collapsing the Government has become clear?Sean_F said:
Labour successfully neutralised Brexit as an issue, by not opposition it overtly, and the Conservatives screwed up the campaign.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If the voters wanted to actually Brexit, they shouldn't have broken the Government's arms and legs in GE 2017 before telling them to run a marathon.0 -
Correction - 70% of the membership infiltrated with UKIPGIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...
The conservative voters are not the same0 -
Then they are complete bloody idiots. Do you think I have an aversion to stating facts? I'd say the same thing if 70% of them told me the earth was flat.GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...0 -
Indeed. The Newport West voters were so incensed that Brexit was being stolen from them that a massive 3.2% of the electorate voted for UKIP.IanB2 said:
Nonsense. Only a tiny minority of people are angry. Hence the derisory support for Farage's PR stunts and the low vote for UKIP in the by-election.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.0 -
Please don’t call people nut jobs just because they have a different political view, it says more about you than them0
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Yes and Farage could get a majority conceivably on just 35 to 40% of the voteDavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.0 -
What's the purpose of this amendment ?
So that May can send Rudd as a substitute to Brussels ?0 -
It's not so much that it would lead to a landslide for a pro-Brexit party as that it could do, if the Scottish example was followed.blueblue said:
Yes, I know - so why should a 2019 election be different, especially now that the virtual impossibility of delivering Brexit without collapsing the Government has become clear?Sean_F said:
Labour successfully neutralised Brexit as an issue, by not opposition it overtly, and the Conservatives screwed up the campaign.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If the voters wanted to actually Brexit, they shouldn't have broken the Government's arms and legs in GE 2017 before telling them to run a marathon.
Unionists won the Scottish referendum, but their vote was split three ways in the subsequent general election, whereas the nationalist vote was united behind one party.
IMHO, it's unlikely that a pro-Brexit party would enjoy such a perfect result.0 -
blueblue is Fiona Hill and i claim my £5GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...0 -
Indeed, YouGov has the Tories on just 32% and Labour on just 31% in its latest poll, Comres the Tories and Labour tied on 32% eachSean_F said:
In a a messy multi-party election, the winner might win a majority of seats on a third of the vote.HYUFD said:
For the moment, if we ended up with Revoke and no Brexit at all (never mind soft Brexit or even EUref2) we could see Leavers surge to Farage`s new Brexit PartySean_F said:
But, the vote is being split between minor parties, rather than any one minor party benefitting. Which means that the big two will sail on serenely in any election decided by FPTP.HYUFD said:
Not what the latest polls show, all conducted after May's further extension announcement, 2 have the Tories ahead by 1 point, the other Labour and the Tories tied.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
It is minor parties benefiting not Labour as No Deal Leavers go to UKIP and the Brexit Party and pro Revoke or EUref2 Remainers go to the LDs or CUK0 -
I think that is Remainer complacencyBenpointer said:
It's not impossible a huge meteorite lands on Europe on Friday afternoon and makes the Brexit question redundant...HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
...it's unlikely, admittedly, but not as unlikely as the Brexit party winning the next GE.0 -
A better leader would have brought more people on board from all sides and would have have not relied on the awful civil service to broker deals. A better leader would have brought the party and the country with them remembering who voted them in.another_richard said:
So you can't give any details.TGOHF said:
Just about everything could have been far better - she is awful- devoid of any leadership skills.another_richard said:
What would have changed if May had been replaced ?TGOHF said:Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy that vote her to stay.
A 3 week old Zebra turd could have done better than May.0 -
Look how the SNP cleaned up when they lost the Indy Ref... not Brexiting is surely similar enough to draw conclusions from that?HYUFD said:
Yes and Farage could get a majority conceivably on just 35 to 40% of the voteDavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
For the Euro's I meant0 -
Is there still a PB FPL league?0
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Yes, the Lords amendments give the government more flexibility over who can seek the extension and on timing and process. I think only the hard Brexiters are opposing, although the Tories as a whole will try to oppose the Bill as amended.Pulpstar said:What's the purpose of this amendment ?
So that May can send Rudd as a substitute to Brussels ?0 -
Ah yes MayBot and the dementia tax.brokenwheel said:
You have probably forgotten the dementia tax (arf!).blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
Then she started threatening the winter fuel allowances for English pensioners while letting Ruth gloat that Scottish pensioners would keep their WFA.
I'm still not terribly sure she didn't throw the election deliberately... Is it possible someone could really create such an inept campaign by accident?0 -
BTW I notice British strawberries are already in the supermarkets.
There's no shortage of daffodils either - though why any non-Welsh person would buy those I don't know.0 -
We don't even know how many constituencies the Brexit Party will be able to stand candidates in yet in any GE, so might just maybe be drifting into the realm of fantasy here.HYUFD said:
As the Leave vote did not consolidate around one party, at least a third of Leave voters voted Labour for example.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If Brexit is revoked Leavers could consolidate almost entirely around the Brexit Party, while Remainers split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs.
The same scenario played out in Scotland in 2015 as Nationalists consolidated almost entirely around the SNP, while Unionists split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs0 -
Looking at the Com Res poll, 24% of 32% is 8%, so it's fair to conclude that the right wing pro-EU position is niche, as argued on the previous thread.Drutt said:
blueblue is Fiona Hill and i claim my £5GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...0 -
396 v 830
-
The ERG are now collecting their due desserts. Today's light custard: euro elections in May.
Well done private Francois and corporal Redwood. 0 -
No doubt some said similar about En Marche.solarflare said:
We don't even know how many constituencies the Brexit Party will be able to stand candidates in yet in any GE, so might just maybe be drifting into the realm of fantasy here.HYUFD said:
As the Leave vote did not consolidate around one party, at least a third of Leave voters voted Labour for example.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If Brexit is revoked Leavers could consolidate almost entirely around the Brexit Party, while Remainers split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs.
The same scenario played out in Scotland in 2015 as Nationalists consolidated almost entirely around the SNP, while Unionists split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs0 -
Lords amendment 4 agreed no opposition
Division on Cash's wrecking amendment to an amendment. Certain to fail.0 -
Brexit has not been revoked yet, there is a massive difference between extension for a few months and still Brexit and no Brexit at all and Brexit cancelled by Parliament without even bothering to consult the voters again (plus UKIP and the Brexit Party combined already on about 12% nationwide)Benpointer said:
Indeed. The Newport West voters were so incensed that Brexit was being stolen from them that a massive 3.2% of the electorate voted for UKIP.IanB2 said:
Nonsense. Only a tiny minority of people are angry. Hence the derisory support for Farage's PR stunts and the low vote for UKIP in the by-election.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.0 -
"Sudan protest: Clashes among armed forces at Khartoum sit-in"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-478502780 -
Considering the ERG nutters were rubbishing May's Deal before it had even been announced I very much doubt that.TGOHF said:
A better leader would have brought more people on board from all sides and would have have not relied on the awful civil service to broker deals. A better leader would have brought the party and the country with them remembering who voted them in.another_richard said:
So you can't give any details.TGOHF said:
Just about everything could have been far better - she is awful- devoid of any leadership skills.another_richard said:
What would have changed if May had been replaced ?TGOHF said:Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy that vote her to stay.
A 3 week old Zebra turd could have done better than May.
May might have sod all political skills but nobody in the Conservative party thought to challenge her for over two years.
By then it was too late.0 -
Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .0
-
I'm not "right wing pro-EU", I'm "right wing pro not destroying the Government, the economy, and letting in Corbyn". I don't give a damn about the EU itself apart from that.Sean_F said:
Looking at the Com Res poll, 24% of 32% is 8%, so it's fair to conclude that the right wing pro-EU position is niche, as argued on the previous thread.Drutt said:
blueblue is Fiona Hill and i claim my £5GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...0 -
Farage is already recruiting candidates for the Euros and would do the same for the GE, even if they just stood in Leave seats that could be enoughsolarflare said:
We don't even know how many constituencies the Brexit Party will be able to stand candidates in yet in any GE, so might just maybe be drifting into the realm of fantasy here.HYUFD said:
As the Leave vote did not consolidate around one party, at least a third of Leave voters voted Labour for example.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If Brexit is revoked Leavers could consolidate almost entirely around the Brexit Party, while Remainers split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs.
The same scenario played out in Scotland in 2015 as Nationalists consolidated almost entirely around the SNP, while Unionists split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs0 -
I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.0
-
Exactlysteve_garner said:
No doubt some said similar about En Marche.solarflare said:
We don't even know how many constituencies the Brexit Party will be able to stand candidates in yet in any GE, so might just maybe be drifting into the realm of fantasy here.HYUFD said:
As the Leave vote did not consolidate around one party, at least a third of Leave voters voted Labour for example.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If Brexit is revoked Leavers could consolidate almost entirely around the Brexit Party, while Remainers split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs.
The same scenario played out in Scotland in 2015 as Nationalists consolidated almost entirely around the SNP, while Unionists split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs0 -
Agreed for the Euros but the GE is winner takes all unlike the PR Euros so a Brexit Party surge would be magnifiedisam said:
Look how the SNP cleaned up when they lost the Indy Ref... not Brexiting is surely similar enough to draw conclusions from that?HYUFD said:
Yes and Farage could get a majority conceivably on just 35 to 40% of the voteDavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
For the Euro's I meant0 -
Another Brexiter realises that what he voted for was a unicorn (thread).
https://twitter.com/adrianyalland/status/1115360516027949057?s=210 -
I said on here they should get rid the day after the general election and then have another election in September or October 2017.another_richard said:
Considering the ERG nutters were rubbishing May's Deal before it had even been announced I very much doubt that.TGOHF said:
A better leader would have brought more people on board from all sides and would have have not relied on the awful civil service to broker deals. A better leader would have brought the party and the country with them remembering who voted them in.another_richard said:
So you can't give any details.TGOHF said:
Just about everything could have been far better - she is awful- devoid of any leadership skills.another_richard said:
What would have changed if May had been replaced ?TGOHF said:Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy that vote her to stay.
A 3 week old Zebra turd could have done better than May.
May might have sod all political skills but nobody in the Conservative party thought to challenge her for over two years.
By then it was too late.
May was damaged beyond repair by the election and it was clear the 2017 Parliament would never be able to agree on anything.0 -
They ought to know their fellow MP's.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
0 -
" Buttigieg to Mike Pence: “Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator” "
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/8/18300601/pete-buttigieg-mike-pence-christianity-faith-sexuality
0 -
So she's revoking then. The EU27 hold their line, state that we have failed to present a new plan and revert to their existing position - that we leave on Friday.
May then comes home from Brussels in disgrace/despair. With most of her back benches demanding that she steps down immediately. Knowing that she is done whatever she does and the party with it. With the civil service detailed warnings of what immediate crash Brexit does.
And she revokes.0 -
I doubt they thought about anything - they certainly didn't do any research into what the likely outcomes could be.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
0 -
Nah. The SNP achieved what Boris hoped to - a sympathy surge for a heroic near miss.HYUFD said:
Agreed for the Euro`s certainly maybe beyondisam said:
Look how the SNP cleaned up when they lost the Indy Ref... not Brexiting is surely similar enough to draw conclusions from that?HYUFD said:
Yes and Farage could get a majority conceivably on just 35 to 40% of the voteDavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
For the Euro's I meant
Actually winning the referendum and then having it demonstrated to the world that your success has reduced the country's politics to the abject and pitiful humiliation we are now living through is another matter entirely.
There won't be a big sympathy surge when this fiasco is put out of its misery.0 -
I think if MayDay did indeed revoke, stand up and say, “well we tried our best, but whatever was put on the table, the Brexiteers refused to eat, in the end we had no choice but to send the little wankers to bed without any supper”, she’d race to 42% in the polls pretty quickly and most of the country would be relieved to hear the end of it, and get on with their lives.tottenhamWC said:
Whatever the outcome on Brexit, I think most normal people would be happy not to hear about it for a long time, so the chance of this outcome has to be pretty close to zero.IanB2 said:
Nonsense. Only a tiny minority of people are angry. Hence the derisory support for Farage's PR stunts and the low vote for UKIP in the by-election.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.0 -
In London, especially, this view is also typically the view of many historic Conservative voters (hence the Tories current electoral popularity there)blueblue said:
I'm not "right wing pro-EU", I'm "right wing pro not destroying the Government, the economy, and letting in Corbyn". I don't give a damn about the EU itself apart from that.Sean_F said:
Looking at the Com Res poll, 24% of 32% is 8%, so it's fair to conclude that the right wing pro-EU position is niche, as argued on the previous thread.Drutt said:
blueblue is Fiona Hill and i claim my £5GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...0 -
Quite, i'd be surprised is Farage goes down the route of fighting a GE. The impression I have is he was disillusioned with it given the high bar for any party without a concentration of support. That's why he's set up specifically a Brexit party, rather something with a broader platform that could have legs in a GE. I'm sure he'll be happy to keep getting a pay-cheque from the EU.solarflare said:
We don't even know how many constituencies the Brexit Party will be able to stand candidates in yet in any GE, so might just maybe be drifting into the realm of fantasy here.HYUFD said:
As the Leave vote did not consolidate around one party, at least a third of Leave voters voted Labour for example.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If Brexit is revoked Leavers could consolidate almost entirely around the Brexit Party, while Remainers split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs.
The same scenario played out in Scotland in 2015 as Nationalists consolidated almost entirely around the SNP, while Unionists split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs0 -
It is one of life's mysteries how the ERG, who have some clever lawyers, could not see the inevitable and take MV3 when it was on offer.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
History will show how inept they were and they were the principal reason for the coming brexit failure
Astonishing, just astonishing0 -
People were not shy about wanting to stop Brexit (even if some pretended it was just no deal Brexit they wanted to stop), nor was the government shy about what saying no could mean. They're pretense at surprise can surely only be phoney.Sean_F said:
They ought to know their fellow MP's.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
0 -
solarflare said:
We don't even know how many constituencies the Brexit Party will be able to stand candidates in yet in any GE, so might just maybe be drifting into the realm of fantasy here.HYUFD said:
As the Leave vote did not consolidate around one party, at least a third of Leave voters voted Labour for example.blueblue said:
Then why didn't the Conservative landslide materialize? Translating the Leave vote to FPTP should have 2017 unlosable. But it wasn't.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
If Brexit is revoked Leavers could consolidate almost entirely around the Brexit Party, while Remainers split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs.
The same scenario played out in Scotland in 2015 as Nationalists consolidated almost entirely around the SNP, while Unionists split between the Tories, Labour and the LDs
I think we have already stepped solidly into the realms of fantasy here0 -
Has he revealed why he didn't manage to work this out four months earlier ?nico67 said:Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .
0 -
To be continued...RochdalePioneers said:So she's revoking then. The EU27 hold their line, state that we have failed to present a new plan and revert to their existing position - that we leave on Friday.
May then comes home from Brussels in disgrace/despair. With most of her back benches demanding that she steps down immediately. Knowing that she is done whatever she does and the party with it. With the civil service detailed warnings of what immediate crash Brexit does.
And she revokes. 0 -
Is this the same Daniel Kawczynski who flew to Poland to persuade the Polish government to veto the Deal and force a crash out?nico67 said:Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .
He is a c*** of the first water.0 -
I can understand it from any who believe the WA is worse even than remaining. Clearly, in the end, many in the ERG such as Rees-Mogg did not believe that. But I can understand those that do holding out.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is one of life's mysteries how the ERG, who have some clever lawyers, could not see the inevitable and take MV3 when it was on offer.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
But to get so furious that we are going to very likely have European elections? Sorry, just not getting it. They knew damn well how much no deal would be resisted, and so they were bound to happen if they said no. Heck, some accepted that remain might happen, in which case the elections were definitely coming.0 -
No. Long time lurker. First post. Bollocks to Brexit. Hello!RochdalePioneers said:So she's revoking then. The EU27 hold their line, state that we have failed to present a new plan and revert to their existing position - that we leave on Friday.
May then comes home from Brussels in disgrace/despair. With most of her back benches demanding that she steps down immediately. Knowing that she is done whatever she does and the party with it. With the civil service detailed warnings of what immediate crash Brexit does.
And she revokes.0 -
He hasn't yet worked out why he didn't work it out sooner.another_richard said:
Has he revealed why he didn't manage to work this out four months earlier ?nico67 said:Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .
0 -
No offence, but I don't think you understand Conservative voters._Anazina_ said:
I think if MayDay did indeed revoke, stand up and say, “well we tried our best, but whatever was put on the table, the Brexiteers refused to eat, in the end we had no choice but to send the little wankers to bed without any supper”, she’d race to 42% in the polls pretty quickly and most of the country would be relieved to hear the end of it, and get on with their lives.tottenhamWC said:
Whatever the outcome on Brexit, I think most normal people would be happy not to hear about it for a long time, so the chance of this outcome has to be pretty close to zero.IanB2 said:
Nonsense. Only a tiny minority of people are angry. Hence the derisory support for Farage's PR stunts and the low vote for UKIP in the by-election.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
Some are indeed pissed off by the ERG: others regard them as heroes. But, the vast majority want Brexit.0 -
Presumably he really believed he personally had the sway to single handedly get the Polish government to veto the entire EU giving us the previous extension?another_richard said:
Has he revealed why he didn't manage to work this out four months earlier ?nico67 said:Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .
0 -
Not impossible.RochdalePioneers said:So she's revoking then. The EU27 hold their line, state that we have failed to present a new plan and revert to their existing position - that we leave on Friday.
May then comes home from Brussels in disgrace/despair. With most of her back benches demanding that she steps down immediately. Knowing that she is done whatever she does and the party with it. With the civil service detailed warnings of what immediate crash Brexit does.
And she revokes.0 -
Well, that may be so but he seems to have had quite the damascene moment in recent times.Gardenwalker said:
Is this the same Daniel Kawczynski who flew to Poland to persuade the Polish government to veto the Deal and force a crash out?nico67 said:Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .
He is a c*** of the first water.0 -
Welcome! Cannot argue with your first post.Axiomatic said:
No. Long time lurker. First post. Bollocks to Brexit. Hello!RochdalePioneers said:So she's revoking then. The EU27 hold their line, state that we have failed to present a new plan and revert to their existing position - that we leave on Friday.
May then comes home from Brussels in disgrace/despair. With most of her back benches demanding that she steps down immediately. Knowing that she is done whatever she does and the party with it. With the civil service detailed warnings of what immediate crash Brexit does.
And she revokes.
0 -
You do realise things were going ok until May decided to legitimise your new "comrade", don't you?blueblue said:
I'm not "right wing pro-EU", I'm "right wing pro not destroying the Government, the economy, and letting in Corbyn". I don't give a damn about the EU itself apart from that.Sean_F said:
Looking at the Com Res poll, 24% of 32% is 8%, so it's fair to conclude that the right wing pro-EU position is niche, as argued on the previous thread.Drutt said:
blueblue is Fiona Hill and i claim my £5GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...
Seriously the media is going to crucify the Tories at the next election over it, and that is ENTIRELY May's fault.
0 -
Some of them are morons and others live in their own twatter fueled echo chamber.kle4 said:
People were not shy about wanting to stop Brexit (even if some pretended it was just no deal Brexit they wanted to stop), nor was the government shy about what saying no could mean. They're pretense at surprise can surely only be phoney.Sean_F said:
They ought to know their fellow MP's.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
0 -
Agreed. May has one last chance to save her career and maybe even win an election, and it's staring her right in the face. It only requires her to think laterally..._Anazina_ said:
I think if MayDay did indeed revoke, stand up and say, “well we tried our best, but whatever was put on the table, the Brexiteers refused to eat, in the end we had no choice but to send the little wankers to bed without any supper”, she’d race to 42% in the polls pretty quickly and most of the country would be relieved to hear the end of it, and get on with their lives.tottenhamWC said:
Whatever the outcome on Brexit, I think most normal people would be happy not to hear about it for a long time, so the chance of this outcome has to be pretty close to zero.IanB2 said:
Nonsense. Only a tiny minority of people are angry. Hence the derisory support for Farage's PR stunts and the low vote for UKIP in the by-election.DavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
Damn. We're doomed.0 -
History will record she achieved a brexit deal that was agreed by the EU and that we would exit on the 29th March 2019. It will also record that her deal was far beyond the brexiteers hopes when they campaigned to leave, but that a group of hard brexit zealots shot brexit down in flamesGIN1138 said:
I said on here they should get rid the day after the general election and then have another election in September or October 2017.another_richard said:
Considering the ERG nutters were rubbishing May's Deal before it had even been announced I very much doubt that.TGOHF said:
A better leader would have brought more people on board from all sides and would have have not relied on the awful civil service to broker deals. A better leader would have brought the party and the country with them remembering who voted them in.another_richard said:
So you can't give any details.TGOHF said:
Just about everything could have been far better - she is awful- devoid of any leadership skills.another_richard said:
What would have changed if May had been replaced ?TGOHF said:Looks like the ERG were correct to try and vote out May. Was just the wet remainy that vote her to stay.
A 3 week old Zebra turd could have done better than May.
May might have sod all political skills but nobody in the Conservative party thought to challenge her for over two years.
By then it was too late.
May was damaged beyond repair by the election and it was clear the 2017 Parliament would never be able to agree on anything.0 -
Most of those who said that Remain was better than the WA were posturing.kle4 said:
I can understand it from any who believe the WA is worse even than remaining. Clearly, in the end, many in the ERG such as Rees-Mogg did not believe that. But I can understand those that do holding out.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is one of life's mysteries how the ERG, who have some clever lawyers, could not see the inevitable and take MV3 when it was on offer.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
But to get so furious that we are going to very likely have European elections? Sorry, just not getting it. They knew damn well how much no deal would be resisted, and so they were bound to happen if they said no. Heck, some accepted that remain might happen, in which case the elections were definitely coming.0 -
If you recall, the SNP surge was after losing Sindyref.IanB2 said:
Nah. The SNP achieved what Boris hoped to - a sympathy surge for a heroic near miss.HYUFD said:
Agreed for the Euro`s certainly maybe beyondisam said:
Look how the SNP cleaned up when they lost the Indy Ref... not Brexiting is surely similar enough to draw conclusions from that?HYUFD said:
Yes and Farage could get a majority conceivably on just 35 to 40% of the voteDavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
For the Euro's I meant
Actually winning the referendum and then having it demonstrated to the world that your success has reduced the country's politics to the abject and pitiful humiliation we are now living through is another matter entirely.
There won't be a big sympathy surge when this fiasco is put out of its misery.
Remain parties may get a similar landslide in the next GE.0 -
The history of the moondog Tory right makes it somewhat less astonishing. That wing of the party is, and has long been, utterly deranged. Any attempts to rationalise its warped acts and daily delusions are the errands of the naive.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is one of life's mysteries how the ERG, who have some clever lawyers, could not see the inevitable and take MV3 when it was on offer.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
History will show how inept they were and they were the principal reason for the coming brexit failure
Astonishing, just astonishing0 -
They'd done enough damage by then that MV3 would have sunk even with them. Their failing is strategic, not tactical. They only speak to themselves and never imagined their trashing a soft Brexit hoping for a hard Brexit would rebound on their entire project.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is one of life's mysteries how the ERG, who have some clever lawyers, could not see the inevitable and take MV3 when it was on offer.kle4 said:I just cannot wrap my head around how people who have pushed things to the wire, knowing full well parliament was going to fight against No deal, can be so frothingly angry at the near inevitable consequences of their own actions like European elections. Do they think this is what May wanted? She begged them not to see this happen.
History will show how inept they were and they were the principal reason for the coming brexit failure
Astonishing, just astonishing0 -
Axiomatic said:
No. Long time lurker. First post. Bollocks to Brexit. Hello!RochdalePioneers said:So she's revoking then. The EU27 hold their line, state that we have failed to present a new plan and revert to their existing position - that we leave on Friday.
May then comes home from Brussels in disgrace/despair. With most of her back benches demanding that she steps down immediately. Knowing that she is done whatever she does and the party with it. With the civil service detailed warnings of what immediate crash Brexit does.
And she revokes.
Welcome.0 -
Or maybe Conservative MPs could actually support the Prime Minister of a Conservative Government with their votes? Do you think any Tory would ever speak to Corbyn if they could get the votes anywhere else?brokenwheel said:
You do realise things were going ok until May decided to legitimise your new "comrade", don't you?blueblue said:
I'm not "right wing pro-EU", I'm "right wing pro not destroying the Government, the economy, and letting in Corbyn". I don't give a damn about the EU itself apart from that.Sean_F said:
Looking at the Com Res poll, 24% of 32% is 8%, so it's fair to conclude that the right wing pro-EU position is niche, as argued on the previous thread.Drutt said:
blueblue is Fiona Hill and i claim my £5GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May and the Tories will primarily get the blame though as she's the one who said over 100 times we'd leave the EU on 29th March. She's the one that said No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal (and that slogan has really struck home with leavers in the same way Take Back Control did)HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
May is the one that made the Tories the Brexit Party in the 2017 election and made a point of saying we'd be out of SM and CU.
And that's before we get on to all the abuse the Tories and their media allies have been directing at Corbyn and are now trying to get him to save their bacon.
Just as the expenses scandal affected both parties but hit Labour disproportionately as the party of government so failure to deliver Brexit will obviously hit the Tories disproportionately...
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...
Seriously the media is going to crucify the Tories at the next election over it, and that is ENTIRELY May's fault.0 -
Greetings, Sally.....Axiomatic said:
No. Long time lurker. First post. Bollocks to Brexit. Hello!RochdalePioneers said:So she's revoking then. The EU27 hold their line, state that we have failed to present a new plan and revert to their existing position - that we leave on Friday.
May then comes home from Brussels in disgrace/despair. With most of her back benches demanding that she steps down immediately. Knowing that she is done whatever she does and the party with it. With the civil service detailed warnings of what immediate crash Brexit does.
And she revokes.0 -
I see the perpetually angry headbangers are driving themselves apoplectic tonight because they were too stupid to vote for leaving the EU when they had the chance...
It's poetic, in its own way.0 -
What are you talking about? Nothing had a majority in parliament, so May needed to try to find one somehow. Even if taking that choice is her fault, the inability of parliament to agree anything created the situation before us.brokenwheel said:
You do realise things were going ok until May decided to legitimise your new "comrade", don't you?blueblue said:
I'm not "right wing pro-EU", I'm "right wing pro not destroying the Government, the economy, and letting in Corbyn". I don't give a damn about the EU itself apart from that.Sean_F said:
Looking at the Com Res poll, 24% of 32% is 8%, so it's fair to conclude that the right wing pro-EU position is niche, as argued on the previous thread.Drutt said:
blueblue is Fiona Hill and i claim my £5GIN1138 said:
That's 70% of your own voters sunshine.blueblue said:
Any Leavers who still believe that they won anything worth a damn are frankly beyond reason. .GIN1138 said:
Remainers possibly - I'm sure the losers would love to become the winners.blueblue said:
Failure to deliver Brexit will hurt the Tories? I'm a Tory, and I can tell you that if TM Revoked tomorrow and promised that we would never ever _ever_ hear the ******* word Brexit again, we'd be at 40%+ with the relief of a grateful nation.GIN1138 said:
May andrtionately...HYUFD said:Corbyn may also have a problem with Deal plus Customs Union, not just May
https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1115347591905120256?s=20
Leavers would be less impressed at being winners becoming losers...
Seriously the media is going to crucify the Tories at the next election over it, and that is ENTIRELY May's fault.
And the legitimising talk is just plain silly, as has been noted before. Someone who received 40% of the vote at the last GE is already legitimate in the eyes of the public, does anyone genuinely believe that May talking with the man means that he has somehow been granted extra legitimacy in anyone's eyes. The only explanation I've seen for that nonsense argument is it blunts certain Tory attack lines for any election, and that is not even true, since you can always make the argument that you have to work even with awful people sometimes in a crisis. Call it a Churchillian moment or some crap.0 -
I expect that if Brexit goes ahead, then Remain voters will be very fired up to vote, and if it is cancelled, Leave voters will be similarly fired up.Foxy said:
If you recall, the SNP surge was after losing Sindyref.IanB2 said:
Nah. The SNP achieved what Boris hoped to - a sympathy surge for a heroic near miss.HYUFD said:
Agreed for the Euro`s certainly maybe beyondisam said:
Look how the SNP cleaned up when they lost the Indy Ref... not Brexiting is surely similar enough to draw conclusions from that?HYUFD said:
Yes and Farage could get a majority conceivably on just 35 to 40% of the voteDavidL said:
You could be right. I don’t think that remainers or our remainer dominated media are close to understanding how angry people are getting about this. Do what you were f******* told.HYUFD said:
If the Commons votes to revoke Art 50 on Thursday or Friday it is not impossible the Brexit Party could do an SNP 2015 at the next GE and Farage could become PM under FPTP. Remember about 2/3 of constituencies voted Leave in 2016DavidL said:There was what was probably a voodoo poll on aol today which had the Brexit party on 52% with the Tories at something like 13% and Labour on 9%.
People are really pissed off.
For the Euro's I meant
Actually winning the referendum and then having it demonstrated to the world that your success has reduced the country's politics to the abject and pitiful humiliation we are now living through is another matter entirely.
There won't be a big sympathy surge when this fiasco is put out of its misery.
Remain parties may get a similar landslide in the next GE.0 -
another_richard said:
Has he revealed why he didn't manage to work this out four months earlier ?nico67 said:Wow Daniel Kawczynski on LBC really turning on the ERG now . Blaming them if Brexit implodes .
Because he is a thick reactionary with the learning capacity of a comotose woodlouse?0
