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  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    How can it be when they have not been anywhere near the levers of power to enact it?

    Liam Fox has a lot to answer for. Bozza didn't do a great job as Foreign Sec and Davis was completely shit. Fox and Davis should never have got the jobs they did, though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860

    As opposed to the 17.4 million people who took the first opportunity available to overturn your grisly little EU project?
    It wasn't the first opportunity available. That's just a self-pitying myth peddled by people who don't respect our parliamentary democracy.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    See the last sentence of my first post above and ask yourself who is being more measured and reasonable here, the leave voter or the remain voter.
    And you are comprehensively missing my point. Leavers have done nothing to create the consensus for their policy that is needed for it to endure. Quite the reverse: they have sought to draw a circle of trust that excludes their erstwhile opponents, and many have spent the last couple of years roundly abusing them. No prominent Leaver (and almost no obscure Leavers) has condemned this routemarch to the extremes.

    You can bleat about one Remain supporter all you like. (As it happens I didn’t march yesterday and I haven’t signed the petition, in both cases as a matter of principle.) But Leavers have lost the opportunity to forge a consensus and that is very much their problem, not Remainers’.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    Foxy said:

    39 today, despite it being glorious spring weather for a Sunday walk through delightful Charnwood. To be fair the presence of Andrew Bridgen probably kept folk away.

    No wonder their petition is languishing a bit if they are all out on the march.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,291

    No wonder their petition is languishing a bit if they are all out on the march.
    Knowing how PB likes a little areil crowd estimation, here is a little brain teaser:

    https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1109801972448849925?s=19
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    It wasn't the first opportunity available. That's just a self-pitying myth peddled by people who don't respect our parliamentary democracy.
    Really? When 4 million votes gets you one seat in Parliament?

    It was the first time the people had actually had a chance to vote purely on the issue of EU membership since 1975 and they quite rightly told you to stick it up your arse.
  • Foxy said:

    Knowing how PB likes a little areil crowd estimation, here is a little brain teaser:

    https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1109801972448849925?s=19
    Now we are getting childish. Mine is bigger than yours
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860

    Really? When 4 million votes gets you one seat in Parliament?

    It was the first time the people had actually had a chance to vote purely on the issue of EU membership since 1975 and they quite rightly told you to stick it up your arse.
    In fact they voted to tear up the most Eurosceptic deal you're ever likely to get.
  • Tomorrow's Sun front page calls on TMay to resign.

    All getting a bit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr-Ia45UJ6Q
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    How can it be when they have not been anywhere near the levers of power to enact it?
    Nowhere near? While I might grant you that TMay was a crypto-remainer of sorts, and a control freak, I don’t think holding the offices of DexEU, the Foreign Office, Leader of the House etc etc constitutes “nowhere near” the levers of power.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716

    If we've had a long extension and are therefore having EU elections, it should be on the grounds that either we've committed to a new referendum, or we're negotiating an entire new Deal, or a new General Election has happened or is about to happen, all of which will overwhelm the Euro elections.
    All this assumes the EU won't grant a long extension on the basis of "we're still inconsequentially arguing with ourselves". I know their stated position is that they wouldn't, but the consequences of No Deal are very bad, especially for Ireland, and the downsides of letting the British stay and faff for another year or two are mainly minor irritations, as long as the Euro elections are sorted.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,349
    edited March 2019

    Really? When 4 million votes gets you one seat in Parliament?

    It was the first time the people had actually had a chance to vote purely on the issue of EU membership since 1975 and they quite rightly told you to stick it up your arse.
    13% of the vote for 0.15% of the seats... if that hadn’t been so conveniently ignored by the establishment they might have been better prepared for Brexit
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    OT The anti-Tree netting petition has got 128K votes so will at least get a mention in Parliament. I doubt it will make any difference at all but it has at least raised awareness of the issue.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    Foxy said:

    Knowing how PB likes a little areil crowd estimation, here is a little brain teaser:

    https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1109801972448849925?s=19
    π (roughly) - given the two sides are diametrically opposed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,291

    Now we are getting childish. Mine is bigger than yours
    No, I actually felt a little sad for Farage's marchers. Abandoned by their metropolitan elite leaders as soon as the cameras have gone, to plod on to a destination (Brexit day) that moves into the distance like a Sahara mirage.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    Foxy said:

    No, I actually felt a little sad for Farage's marchers. Abandoned by their metropolitan elite leaders as soon as the cameras have gone, to plod on to a destination (Brexit day) that moves into the distance like a Sahara mirage.
    At least they don't have to rush now :smile:
  • Because the withdrawal agreement isn't the long term deal.

    That would be for her successor to sort out.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    https://twitter.com/bbchelenalee/status/1109939785819410433?s=21

    Boris taking the same line as the Sun.

    But it may all be too late now.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    DougSeal said:


    Nowhere near? While I might grant you that TMay was a crypto-remainer of sorts, and a control freak, I don’t think holding the offices of DexEU, the Foreign Office, Leader of the House etc etc constitutes “nowhere near” the levers of power.

    I genuinely believe that she put those Leavers in those positions specifically as a smoke screen while she got on and did what she wanted. There seems to be very few people in Parliament now who believe they were at any time given any authority. That stayed with May and Robbins. You don't even have to believe she was a Remainer as such. Just that she was incompetent with a tin ear which makes her uniquely unsuited for the job of PM even in good times.

    It is all in keeping with her modus operandi in every position she has held which is authoritarian in the extreme whilst making sure she has scape goats when things go wrong. It is why I detested her log before she became PM.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    In fact they voted to tear up the most Eurosceptic deal you're ever likely to get.
    LOL. Your fanaticism is remarkable to see William.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,031
    edited March 2019

    All this assumes the EU won't grant a long extension on the basis of "we're still inconsequentially arguing with ourselves". I know their stated position is that they wouldn't, but the consequences of No Deal are very bad, especially for Ireland, and the downsides of letting the British stay and faff for another year or two are mainly minor irritations, as long as the Euro elections are sorted.
    The EU cannot agree anything beyond the 12th April without our participation in the EU elections starting on the 12th April. This is the reason for the 12th April date and legal advice to the EU that as a member, if we do not take part in their elections their next Parliament will be void

    No deal is very much on the table and it happens on the 12th April if we are not very careful
  • https://twitter.com/bbchelenalee/status/1109939785819410433?s=21

    Boris taking the same line as the Sun.

    But it may all be too late now.

    Didn't the Israelites wander aimlessly for forty years in the desert after Pharaoh let them go?

    Is that the message Boris wants for Brexit?
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Talk to me about your bridge-building with your Remainer chums. Have you ruffled their hair as you call them saboteurs? Do you give them fancy biscuits as you label them enemies of the people?

    And yet still they don’t come round. How inflexible of them.
    If some of them had hair to ruffle, perhaps they wouldn’t get quite so hot under the collar.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860

    Because the withdrawal agreement isn't the long term deal.

    That would be for her successor to sort out.
    It's the long term deal the DUP are worried about...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    Bet Theresa's washing she hadn't pulled the plug on Leaveson 2 now! :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Didn't the Israelites wander aimlessly for forty years in the desert after Pharaoh let them go?

    Is that the message Boris wants for Brexit?
    As God said to Moses so the nation should say to Boris: keep taking the tablets.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    It's the long term deal the DUP are worried about...
    Which is why they are so daft to oppose the WA.
  • Foxy said:

    No, I actually felt a little sad for Farage's marchers. Abandoned by their metropolitan elite leaders as soon as the cameras have gone, to plod on to a destination (Brexit day) that moves into the distance like a Sahara mirage.
    I feel nothing but contempt for Farage and his army
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,106
    Good grief what is Bozo on !

    Someone send for the men in white coats .
  • NEW THREAD

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,333

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302

    Because the withdrawal agreement isn't the long term deal.

    That would be for her successor to sort out.
    I still don't see how May resigning gets the MV passed.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    I genuinely believe that she put those Leavers in those positions specifically as a smoke screen while she got on and did what she wanted. There seems to be very few people in Parliament now who believe they were at any time given any authority. That stayed with May and Robbins. You don't even have to believe she was a Remainer as such. Just that she was incompetent with a tin ear which makes her uniquely unsuited for the job of PM even in good times.

    It is all in keeping with her modus operandi in every position she has held which is authoritarian in the extreme whilst making sure she has scape goats when things go wrong. It is why I detested her log before she became PM.
    There is truth in what you say regarding her abilities but neither of us will know what her true motives are/were. For my part, you’ll appreciate that her hatred of the ECHR (the whole lying about the about the cat thing) and complaints about not being able to bring down immigration while there was FOM, both while she was HS, make me deeply sceptical of her remainer credentials. I think she just decided to back the wrong side in the referendum - if she thought Leave would win then it would have been different. But we’ll never really know.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    DougSeal said:

    There is truth in what you say regarding her abilities but neither of us will know what her true motives are/were. For my part, you’ll appreciate that her hatred of the ECHR (the whole lying about the about the cat thing) and complaints about not being able to bring down immigration while there was FOM, both while she was HS, make me deeply sceptical of her remainer credentials. I think she just decided to back the wrong side in the referendum - if she thought Leave would win then it would have been different. But we’ll never really know.
    Can't argue with any of that. But then I am biased as my intense dislike of her is very deep rooted and long held.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    Dura_Ace said:

    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DougSeal said:

    The police disagree with you. If you feel threatened then you can act in many ways. In the circumstances a slap may have been remarkably self controlled. Women have been acquitted of murder in similar circumstances- quite rightly.
    They did exonerate her (I think that’s the in phrase tonight)

    He was t prepared to give evidence so there was no case to answer
This discussion has been closed.