politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » There could still be value in betting that the UK will leave o
Comments
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Whether or not Mike is right about legislation being required depends on your definition of "legislation". It does not require primary legislation, i.e. no new Act of Parliament. It requires a Statutory Instrument with the required regulations.david_herdson said:On topic, I don't think Mike's right that the Withdrawal Act would require an amending Act to change the defined Brexit Date. There's an amending clause within it that enables the minister to change the date.
Section 20(4):
A Minister of the Crown may by regulations—
(a)amend the definition of “exit day” in subsection (1) to ensure that the day and time specified in the definition are the day and time that the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom, and
(b)amend subsection (2) in consequence of any such amendment.
Those more versed in parliamentary procedure can advise whether there'd have to be any votes to authorise such a regulation but it wouldn't need an emergency Act.
In terms of parliamentary procedure, under Schedule 7 of the Withdrawal Act the regulations would have to be approved by resolutions in both the Commons and the Lords. So just a simple vote in each house. It may be that the regulations would be rejected but the last time that happened was in July 1978.
Note that Section 20(4) says the minister can amend exit day to match the day and time the Treaties cease to apply. So, if the EU agree to a delay, regulations to change exit day to match whatever is agreed with the EU should be uncontroversial. If the EU do not agree to any delay the minister will not be able to change exit day.
So overall my view is that Mike is wrong in thinking that the date in the Withdrawal Act is a big reason why we are likely to leave in two weeks. If the EU agrees an extension to Article 50 it will be no block at all.0 -
What evidence is there of Farron's "campaigning ability" reaching beyond Westmorland (and even there, he came close to losing it in 2017)? During his period as leader, he made very little impact in the national debate, despite Brexit and Corbyn offering clear opportunities; he was as absent from the media as Cable is, and when he did get coverage, it was often for the wrong reason.tpfkar said:FPT:
I'm a swing eligible voter on the Lib Dem leadership. I never thought that Tim Farron should have stood down, whatever issues around his faith his campaigning skills were sorely needed and haven't come close to being matched under Cable. In a fair world where intellect, experience, judgement and wisdom were valued more highly, and shouting loudly valued lower, Vince should have ben a colossus. This world is anything but fair.
I'm concerned over a couple of things Layla Moran has chosen to campaign on in the last few months; I've some judgement queries. On Jo Swinson I want to know that she's a wider vision than gender-neutral bathrooms uniforms and gender pay gaps. On Ed Davey I've concerns how he'll get noticed and how nimble he can be in praising / criticising the coalition where needed. And I would never vote for a non-MP to be leader, whatever the outcome of the proposed changes coming to Spring Conference. My vote is up for grabs.
Whoever is the next Lib Dem leader needs to look at Caroline Lucas and take a leaf out of her book, in terms of gaining media exposure from a minor party. There still seems to be too much of an assumption that the Lib Dems' have an automatic seat at the table, and it's not true any more: they need to be much more pro-active in forcing themselves onto the airwaves.0 -
Ladbrokes have a market for third place in the Newport West by-election:
Ukip - evens
Plaid - 3/1
Abolish the Welsh Assembly - 5/1
Lib Dems - 6/1
Renew - 12/1
Green - 16/1
SDP - 25/1
Conservatives - 50/1
For Britain - 50/1
Labour - 50/1
Democrats and Veterans - 100/1
Any value in that lot?0 -
Have nominations closed yet?tlg86 said:Ladbrokes have a market for third place in the Newport West by-election:
Ukip - evens
Plaid - 3/1
Abolish the Welsh Assembly - 5/1
Lib Dems - 6/1
Renew - 12/1
Green - 16/1
SDP - 25/1
Conservatives - 50/1
For Britain - 50/1
Labour - 50/1
Democrats and Veterans - 100/1
Any value in that lot?
Farage's Brexit Party is missing, as is a TIG candidate.0 -
Yes, nominations now closed. Neither of those groups has put up a candidate.Sandpit said:
Have nominations closed yet?tlg86 said:Ladbrokes have a market for third place in the Newport West by-election:
Ukip - evens
Plaid - 3/1
Abolish the Welsh Assembly - 5/1
Lib Dems - 6/1
Renew - 12/1
Green - 16/1
SDP - 25/1
Conservatives - 50/1
For Britain - 50/1
Labour - 50/1
Democrats and Veterans - 100/1
Any value in that lot?
Farage's Brexit Party is missing, as is a TIG candidate.0 -
Well, you could start with the 22,469 who voted for him, unseating the SNP's London born Tasmina fined by the Scottish Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal for professional misconduct but Alex Salmond bestie Ahmed-Sheik.....malcolmg said:
Bet you could not find a handful of people who knew he was an MP.CarlottaVance said:
After Mr Graham’s statement in the Commons, Stewart McDonald, the SNP MP for Glasgow South, who was recently targeted by right-wing blogger Tommy Robinson, tweeted: “I’m truly sorry to hear this @LukeGrahamMP.malcolmg said:
LOL, utter made up bollox, unionists and their poodles are getting desperate. Who would waste time on these pipsqueak nobodies. Given they do F all who would ever know they had been an MP.CarlottaVance said:Civic nationalism:
https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1106487198113660928
PS I note you did not include the "ALLEGED" to cover the fact that it is all a fantasy of the cretins imagination , actually believing anybody would know him or give a toss. They should stick to their usual shenanigans in the strangers bar after liberal use of public money.
“My staff and I know what it’s like to be intimidated by those who don’t like your politics and this sort of stuff is never ever acceptable.
“Please pass on our best wishes to your office team.”
Compare & contrast.....
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There is a direct line from Islamophobic newspaper headlines and columns through politicians like Johnson to Nazis like Hopkins to murdering psychopaths gunning down Moslems in the streets. Of course, there is a similar line from the preachings and teachings of reactionary Moslem bigots to the murders of innocents across the world; and from media cries of traitor to the assassination of a politician on a quiet English street. Speech is free, and that must be cherished, but those who spread hate own the consequences of what they say.0
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The DUP will inevitably switch. It makes absolutely no sense for them not to. There does seem to be an irreconcilable no surrender ERG bloc, though, so May will need Labour votes. She can get those if she compromises on how the future trade deal process will be structured, but that takes us back to her red lines.Pulpstar said:
THey managed to get Philip Davies and Scott Mann to switch, two hard brexiters. If they can get the DUP to switch then more will follow - but the DUP is key.kle4 said:
We have no proof 30 or so are considering it . It seems to be based on hope and rumours.Greenwich_Floater said:
If the DUP cave in, then I can see maybe 50 of Moggsy lot falling in (including Moggsy). Wouldn't need that many from Labour to come over out of the 30 or so that are seriously considering it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Far too little, far too late.Sean_F said:I don't know how many ERG members will oppose Brexit to the bitter end. 30 seems a reasonable estimate, but it's easy to hold out when peers and supporters are egging you on. Less so, when they're telling you that you're being a cock. It does seem growing numbers of Leavers realise the WA
is as good as it gets.
29th March would still be long odds against as impossible to do the paperwork on time
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We can't leave on 29th March if May's deal goes through because there is no time to complete the enabling legislation.Mysticrose said:This is a good post. At 11% it's clearly value.
However, I cannot see the House of Commons permitting this. They have two main mechanisms for halting exit on 29th March. The first is revoking Article 50. Whilst unlikely, if push comes to shove I'm certain they would do this rather than crash out with No Deal. The other is to table the appropriate legislation. This is feasible even at the last minute and, again, I'm certain they will do it if necessary.
Which, if correct, means there's only one reason why we might leave on March 29th: that's if Theresa May's deal goes through.
Now having said all of that we have a BIG problem in the betting market around the interpretation of 'leave.' It has been mooted that the UK might 'politically' leave on 29th March whilst technically and legally it takes longer. That's going to cause a real rumpus for punters.
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Okay cool - so an actual by-election on which to bet.tlg86 said:
Yes, nominations now closed. Neither of those groups has put up a candidate.Sandpit said:
Have nominations closed yet?tlg86 said:Ladbrokes have a market for third place in the Newport West by-election:
Ukip - evens
Plaid - 3/1
Abolish the Welsh Assembly - 5/1
Lib Dems - 6/1
Renew - 12/1
Green - 16/1
SDP - 25/1
Conservatives - 50/1
For Britain - 50/1
Labour - 50/1
Democrats and Veterans - 100/1
Any value in that lot?
Farage's Brexit Party is missing, as is a TIG candidate.
The last two elections have seen UKIP, Plaid and LD in that order, although last time was very close between them all, albeit a long way behind Lab and Con.
2017:UKIP Stan Edwards 1,100 2.5 -12.7
I wonder if the LDs are the value there? They’re big fans of by-elections and there’s no locals in Wales this year. They could consolidate the anti-Brexit vote.
Plaid Cymru Morgan Bowler-Brown[6] 1,077 2.5 -1.5
Liberal Democrat Sarah Lockyer 976 2.2 -1.7
There’s also the big local issue of the M4 relief road, which I guess the LD is against?0 -
The idea that one can separate "political" departure from the legal departure is utter nonsense.Mysticrose said:This is a good post. At 11% it's clearly value.
However, I cannot see the House of Commons permitting this. They have two main mechanisms for halting exit on 29th March. The first is revoking Article 50. Whilst unlikely, if push comes to shove I'm certain they would do this rather than crash out with No Deal. The other is to table the appropriate legislation. This is feasible even at the last minute and, again, I'm certain they will do it if necessary.
Which, if correct, means there's only one reason why we might leave on March 29th: that's if Theresa May's deal goes through.
Now having said all of that we have a BIG problem in the betting market around the interpretation of 'leave.' It has been mooted that the UK might 'politically' leave on 29th March whilst technically and legally it takes longer. That's going to cause a real rumpus for punters.
Betfair's rules state "For the purposes of this market leaving the EU is defined as the date when the treaties of the EU cease to apply to the UK..." - that is a legal definition as clear as day. Politics is a process of deciding upon and implementing laws. You can't separate political and legal in any real sense.
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Brexit is the squirrel. This is the real agenda.CarlottaVance said:0 -
+1.SouthamObserver said:There is a direct line from Islamophobic newspaper headlines and columns through politicians like Johnson to Nazis like Hopkins to murdering psychopaths gunning down Moslems in the streets. Of course, there is a similar line from the preachings and teachings of reactionary Moslem bigots to the murders of innocents across the world; and from media cries of traitor to the assassination of a politician on a quiet English street. Speech is free, and that must be cherished, but those who spread hate own the consequences of what they say.
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The DUP will be difficult to swing. For them the key is the backstop. Unless the AG reverses his legal advice - quite a tall order you would think - the backstop remains in place and the DUP could not move. If Brexit was sacrificed on the altar of the backstop the DUP would be unlikely to suffer politically - their base is motivated primarily by Irish/sectarian issues and not Brexit. And some of them probably realise that Brexit brings an Irish unity referendum closer and would not be unhappy to see it collapse as long as their hands are clean and they can apportion blame elsewhere. So by contracting out the decision to the DUP those members of the ERG who want to support May's deal for fear of losing Brexit are taking a very big risk.Pulpstar said:
THey managed to get Philip Davies and Scott Mann to switch, two hard brexiters. If they can get the DUP to switch then more will follow - but the DUP is key.kle4 said:
We have no proof 30 or so are considering it . It seems to be based on hope and rumours.Greenwich_Floater said:
If the DUP cave in, then I can see maybe 50 of Moggsy lot falling in (including Moggsy). Wouldn't need that many from Labour to come over out of the 30 or so that are seriously considering it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Far too little, far too late.Sean_F said:I don't know how many ERG members will oppose Brexit to the bitter end. 30 seems a reasonable estimate, but it's easy to hold out when peers and supporters are egging you on. Less so, when they're telling you that you're being a cock. It does seem growing numbers of Leavers realise the WA
is as good as it gets.
29th March would still be long odds against as impossible to do the paperwork on time
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The DUP are the cover for the ERG.
If the DUP back Mays deal and the ERG hold out then I expect other Tories and the right wing press will turn on them big time.
And if they’re seen to be holding the country hostage May standing there saying they’ve left me no option but to apply for a long extension won’t go down well with more moderate Leavers .0 -
Brexit is a massive squirrel for a multitude of UK's problems. None of which will be made any better by exit.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Brexit is the squirrel. This is the real agenda.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I suppose the big known unknown is Brexit, but I think Plaid might get third. Just glancing through previous Welsh by-elections and it seems that Plaid are fairly reliable in terms of increasing their share of the vote.Sandpit said:
Okay cool - so an actual by-election on which to bet.tlg86 said:
Yes, nominations now closed. Neither of those groups has put up a candidate.Sandpit said:
Have nominations closed yet?tlg86 said:Ladbrokes have a market for third place in the Newport West by-election:
Ukip - evens
Plaid - 3/1
Abolish the Welsh Assembly - 5/1
Lib Dems - 6/1
Renew - 12/1
Green - 16/1
SDP - 25/1
Conservatives - 50/1
For Britain - 50/1
Labour - 50/1
Democrats and Veterans - 100/1
Any value in that lot?
Farage's Brexit Party is missing, as is a TIG candidate.
The last two elections have seen UKIP, Plaid and LD in that order, although last time was very close between them all, albeit a long way behind Lab and Con.
2017:UKIP Stan Edwards 1,100 2.5 -12.7
I wonder if the LDs are the value there? They’re big fans of by-elections and there’s no locals in Wales this year. They could consolidate the anti-Brexit vote.
Plaid Cymru Morgan Bowler-Brown[6] 1,077 2.5 -1.5
Liberal Democrat Sarah Lockyer 976 2.2 -1.7
There’s also the big local issue of the M4 relief road, which I guess the LD is against?0 -
I’ll go with one stake on LD, half a stake as cover on Plaid, and a couple of pennies each on Lab and Con at 50/1 - just in case something goes horribly wrong with Brexit in the next few weeks.tlg86 said:
I suppose the big known unknown is Brexit, but I think Plaid might get third. Just glancing through previous Welsh by-elections and it seems that Plaid are fairly reliable in terms of increasing their share of the vote.Sandpit said:
Okay cool - so an actual by-election on which to bet.tlg86 said:
Yes, nominations now closed. Neither of those groups has put up a candidate.Sandpit said:
Have nominations closed yet?tlg86 said:Ladbrokes have a market for third place in the Newport West by-election:
Ukip - evens
Plaid - 3/1
Abolish the Welsh Assembly - 5/1
Lib Dems - 6/1
Renew - 12/1
Green - 16/1
SDP - 25/1
Conservatives - 50/1
For Britain - 50/1
Labour - 50/1
Democrats and Veterans - 100/1
Any value in that lot?
Farage's Brexit Party is missing, as is a TIG candidate.
The last two elections have seen UKIP, Plaid and LD in that order, although last time was very close between them all, albeit a long way behind Lab and Con.
2017:UKIP Stan Edwards 1,100 2.5 -12.7
I wonder if the LDs are the value there? They’re big fans of by-elections and there’s no locals in Wales this year. They could consolidate the anti-Brexit vote.
Plaid Cymru Morgan Bowler-Brown[6] 1,077 2.5 -1.5
Liberal Democrat Sarah Lockyer 976 2.2 -1.7
There’s also the big local issue of the M4 relief road, which I guess the LD is against?0 -
You can’t politically Leave the EU and say the UK has left . This seems to be the latest nonsense suggested by some Tory MPs.
Even if Mays deal is passed before March 29 the UK has not left . And those thinking the drama is over have forgotten the Withdrawal And Implementation Bill which can be amended.
May needs a big majority on the deal to survive that process which she won’t get .
The Peoples Vote or different versions of Brexit will remain on the table even if Mays deal gets passed.0 -
Tory nonentity seeks publicity , the smear campaign against Tasmina worked but as you know she was found not guilty of the claims made by Tory lapdog media. Keep trying but your terror is showing, you know the game is up and you nasties are wetting yourselves.CarlottaVance said:
Well, you could start with the 22,469 who voted for him, unseating the SNP's London born Tasmina fined by the Scottish Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal for professional misconduct but Alex Salmond bestie Ahmed-Sheik.....malcolmg said:
Bet you could not find a handful of people who knew he was an MP.CarlottaVance said:
After Mr Graham’s statement in the Commons, Stewart McDonald, the SNP MP for Glasgow South, who was recently targeted by right-wing blogger Tommy Robinson, tweeted: “I’m truly sorry to hear this @LukeGrahamMP.malcolmg said:
LOL, utter made up bollox, unionists and their poodles are getting desperate. Who would waste time on these pipsqueak nobodies. Given they do F all who would ever know they had been an MP.CarlottaVance said:Civic nationalism:
https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1106487198113660928
PS I note you did not include the "ALLEGED" to cover the fact that it is all a fantasy of the cretins imagination , actually believing anybody would know him or give a toss. They should stick to their usual shenanigans in the strangers bar after liberal use of public money.
“My staff and I know what it’s like to be intimidated by those who don’t like your politics and this sort of stuff is never ever acceptable.
“Please pass on our best wishes to your office team.”
Compare & contrast.....
PS: If you read the article and could stop laughing you would realise the plank was in London so hard for the yobbos to have threatened him, FAKE NEWS just what you expect from FAKE Tories0 -
I think May will eventually get it through, MV3 or MV4 or whatever, I give this a better than 50% chance.SouthamObserver said:The DUP will inevitably switch. It makes absolutely no sense for them not to. There does seem to be an irreconcilable no surrender ERG bloc, though, so May will need Labour votes. She can get those if she compromises on how the future trade deal process will be structured, but that takes us back to her red lines.
If she cannot, I think it has to be GE or (less likely) REF2, and possibly both. The idea of this PM accepting any deal but her own is not realistic IMO. If we are to have a different Brexit it will require a different parliament and/or a different government.0 -
Yes, the mistake people are making is to think that the “Meaningful Vote” is how the Treaty is ratified, which is incorrect.nico67 said:You can’t politically Leave the EU and say the UK has left . This seems to be the latest nonsense suggested by some Tory MPs.
Even if Mays deal is passed before March 29 the UK has not left . And those thinking the drama is over have forgotten the Withdrawal And Implementation Bill which can be amended.
May needs a big majority on the deal to survive that process which she won’t get .
The Peoples Vote or different versions of Brexit will remain on the table even if Mays deal gets passed.
The Treaty is ratified by a full piece of primary legislation, which has to go through both Houses and committee stage in the usual way, and is amendable at any point.
Also consider that the DUP could effect a VoNC in the government if the MV passes with a backstop they don’t want, which puts everything on hold for up to a couple of weeks as we find a new PM, and potentially for a couple of months if we end up with an election.0 -
If May's deal is passed on Tuesday she will be forced out on Wednesday. The ERG cultists will demand her head as the price of their support.nico67 said:You can’t politically Leave the EU and say the UK has left . This seems to be the latest nonsense suggested by some Tory MPs.
Even if Mays deal is passed before March 29 the UK has not left . And those thinking the drama is over have forgotten the Withdrawal And Implementation Bill which can be amended.
May needs a big majority on the deal to survive that process which she won’t get .
The Peoples Vote or different versions of Brexit will remain on the table even if Mays deal gets passed.0 -
Lay UKIP - with your life savings (DYOR)tlg86 said:Ladbrokes have a market for third place in the Newport West by-election:
Ukip - evens
Plaid - 3/1
Abolish the Welsh Assembly - 5/1
Lib Dems - 6/1
Renew - 12/1
Green - 16/1
SDP - 25/1
Conservatives - 50/1
For Britain - 50/1
Labour - 50/1
Democrats and Veterans - 100/1
Any value in that lot?0 -
Another NEW THREAD has appeared.0
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If MV3 passes (which is still odds against, but not as long as some would think/hope), then no one (apart from the loons on either side of the debate) would dare try to frustrate the process further. There would be massive public uproar and possibly civil disobedience if the deal got voted and then didn't get through on tactical parliamentary technicalitiesnico67 said:You can’t politically Leave the EU and say the UK has left . This seems to be the latest nonsense suggested by some Tory MPs.
Even if Mays deal is passed before March 29 the UK has not left . And those thinking the drama is over have forgotten the Withdrawal And Implementation Bill which can be amended.
May needs a big majority on the deal to survive that process which she won’t get .
The Peoples Vote or different versions of Brexit will remain on the table even if Mays deal gets passed.
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It’s a dangerous game for the DUP.Sandpit said:
Yes, the mistake people are making is to think that the “Meaningful Vote” is how the Treaty is ratified, which is incorrect.nico67 said:You can’t politically Leave the EU and say the UK has left . This seems to be the latest nonsense suggested by some Tory MPs.
Even if Mays deal is passed before March 29 the UK has not left . And those thinking the drama is over have forgotten the Withdrawal And Implementation Bill which can be amended.
May needs a big majority on the deal to survive that process which she won’t get .
The Peoples Vote or different versions of Brexit will remain on the table even if Mays deal gets passed.
The Treaty is ratified by a full piece of primary legislation, which has to go through both Houses and committee stage in the usual way, and is amendable at any point.
Also consider that the DUP could effect a VoNC in the government if the MV passes with a backstop they don’t want, which puts everything on hold for up to a couple of weeks as we find a new PM, and potentially for a couple of months if we end up with an election.
What if the Tories get a decent majority , they won’t need the DUP.0 -
NEW THREAD
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Got to say I agree with every word of that.SouthamObserver said:There is a direct line from Islamophobic newspaper headlines and columns through politicians like Johnson to Nazis like Hopkins to murdering psychopaths gunning down Moslems in the streets. Of course, there is a similar line from the preachings and teachings of reactionary Moslem bigots to the murders of innocents across the world; and from media cries of traitor to the assassination of a politician on a quiet English street. Speech is free, and that must be cherished, but those who spread hate own the consequences of what they say.
I suppose the only issue is separating genuine criticism of religions from the islamophobia or antisemitism - or in some quarters anti-Christianity - views based on bigotry.
I Richard Dawkins, as a vocal advocate of atheism and critic of all religions Islamophobic? Personally I would say no but there are plenty of mainstream commentators who have accused him of just such a position. So one has to be very careful where one starts the timeline of responsibility.
Looking at it the other way I can see a very clear line that can be drawn from claiming one's religion is the only truth - as all the monotheistic religions do - to extremists gunning people down. Of course along the way you need the irrational to become the unhinged but that is certainly not unusual in humans.0 -
He said it was his member of staff (woman on her own) that was threatened - so I suggest you take your own advice and "read the article".malcolmg said:
Tory nonentity seeks publicity , the smear campaign against Tasmina worked but as you know she was found not guilty of the claims made by Tory lapdog media. Keep trying but your terror is showing, you know the game is up and you nasties are wetting yourselves.CarlottaVance said:
Well, you could start with the 22,469 who voted for him, unseating the SNP's London born Tasmina fined by the Scottish Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal for professional misconduct but Alex Salmond bestie Ahmed-Sheik.....malcolmg said:
Bet you could not find a handful of people who knew he was an MP.CarlottaVance said:
After Mr Graham’s statement in the Commons, Stewart McDonald, the SNP MP for Glasgow South, who was recently targeted by right-wing blogger Tommy Robinson, tweeted: “I’m truly sorry to hear this @LukeGrahamMP.malcolmg said:
LOL, utter made up bollox, unionists and their poodles are getting desperate. Who would waste time on these pipsqueak nobodies. Given they do F all who would ever know they had been an MP.CarlottaVance said:Civic nationalism:
https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1106487198113660928
PS I note you did not include the "ALLEGED" to cover the fact that it is all a fantasy of the cretins imagination , actually believing anybody would know him or give a toss. They should stick to their usual shenanigans in the strangers bar after liberal use of public money.
“My staff and I know what it’s like to be intimidated by those who don’t like your politics and this sort of stuff is never ever acceptable.
“Please pass on our best wishes to your office team.”
Compare & contrast.....
PS: If you read the article and could stop laughing you would realise the plank was in London so hard for the yobbos to have threatened him, FAKE NEWS just what you expect from FAKE Tories
And thank you once again for your continuing demonstration of "Civic Nationalism".0 -
Absolutely piffle. People are accountable for their own actions. Words are not murder. Incitement is a crime. There is no incitement from the people you refer to. Surely there would have been arrests, charges and successful prosecutions. You just don’t like that they say things you either don’t agree with or wish weren’t true.SouthamObserver said:There is a direct line from Islamophobic newspaper headlines and columns through politicians like Johnson to Nazis like Hopkins to murdering psychopaths gunning down Moslems in the streets. Of course, there is a similar line from the preachings and teachings of reactionary Moslem bigots to the murders of innocents across the world; and from media cries of traitor to the assassination of a politician on a quiet English street. Speech is free, and that must be cherished, but those who spread hate own the consequences of what they say.
0
