politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile, Labour is redefining the domestic consensus

DecrepitJohnL said:

OT the Cheltenham weather forecast for the first two days features heavy rain and gales. If racing is called off we might have to watch Brexit instead. Sky currently has 7/4 soft and 10/1 heavy for the official going of the Supreme but dyor and remember sometimes the official going is wrong.

Brexit is undoubtedly heavy going, but I don't think it will be soft - it will either be hard or cancelled.

You know you're getting old when you are very happy indeed that the pretty young lady on the till challenges you for ID.

And you feel a lot older still when she drops her request when you take your hat off.

DavidL said:

This has been obvious since Hammond took over from Osborne. A weak, incompetent, minority government like this one meets every challenge with we are spending more. Once additional spending becomes the expected norm then arguing you are spending enough becomes perilous.

Some of this is not necessarily wrong. We have had the best part of 10 years of financial restraint since Brown's disaster and the deficit is now largely eliminated, albeit debt levels are more than double what they were pre-crash. It is inevitable that the pips are going to be squeaking in various parts of the public sector after such a period. What I think is less forgivable is that this government gives no sense of what its priorities are, what it is hoping to achieve with the additional money now available and why some public spending is good and some is not.

There was no 'financial restraint' from Cameron and Osborne when it came to buying votes or funding their pet projects from triple lock pensions to overseas aid to HTB, HS2 and HPC.

So how can you expect their successors to act differently.

ydoethur said:

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

Roger said:

Dura_Ace said:

MaxPB said:

Dura_Ace said:

eek said:

JosiasJessop said:

On domestic matters, it'd be interesting to see how criticism of Javid over the death of Shamima Begum's son plays with the public. Are Abbott and Labour on a winner with their angle?

My Facebook feed has several people who are hopping mad about it; but then they're the Venezuela-supporting, Putin-excusing, Corbyn-loving crowd ...

It's like many things - a great argument until a journalist asks the first question. In this case its "and how, exactly, could we have got them back to the UK?"

She and her dead sprog are in al-Hawl so the UK government could tell the SDF (with whom we will have embedded "advisors") to drive her to the Iraqi border at Rabia (30 minute drive).

Some junior FO spod being punished for some fuck up would meet her at the border with a fresh passport be detailed to take to Irbil airport (maybe a 3 hour drive) and put her on a flight to Stansted via Vienna or Frankfurt. She flies Y class, infant corpse goes in the overhead locker.

If it were Stacey fucking Dooley stuck in that camp do you think the British state couldn't have come up with a way to exfiltrate her?

Possible yes, but why would we do any of that?

Because that kid that The Saj just let die was an innocent British citizen and, because this is unfortunately the real world, you can't repatriate the child without its mother, Jihadi Spice.

If Brexit has taught us anything it's that that the Great British public don't like foreigners particularly if they're Muslim

Maybe you should speak out against this Roger,the local labour MP didn't.

https://twitter.com/_SalmanAnwar/status/1103714269860892672

That is a very interesting post. If you follow his religion what he is saying is unspectacular.. A jewish Rabbi could have stood on that platform and said exactly the same thing using almost identical words The only point of criticism is that he's saying it in public off a trailer. Most Imams and Rabbis and some Catholic branches will be saying the same week in and week out to their followers though not usually in a public place

A place of worship is a public place.

A fair point if a pedantic one. I should have said to an audience of his co religionists

NickPalmer said:

JosiasJessop said:

TGOHF said:

Sad the level of debate on this. This daft bint went off to a third world hell hole and got knocked up - her decisions caused these outcomes entirely.

Also infant mortality in the third world is still high - yet the one bairn that causes the outrage is the celebrity baby. Shallow. Cry for them all or none - and do something about it - like mega wealthy capitalist Bill Gates has.

My own (somewhat mixed) views:

I have no sympathy with Begum's plight. True, she was a minor when she voluntarily left the UK, but her words (at least the ones I have heard) since she has resurfaced seem akin to: "Well, we tried, we lost. You must let me come back" - she doesn't seem to accept the horror she chose to become part of, or show any contrition.

(If someone can point me to an interview where she accepts the horrors of ISIS, I'd be grateful.)

I have -5k sympathy with her husband.

I have massive sympathy for the dead child. I'ts heartbreaking.

However: I also have massive sympathy with the other women and children who died because of the actions of the group she chose to join, and which her husband aided, directly or indirectly. They, not Begum, are the victims in this.

It's a hideous mess. But Begum placed herself, and her children, into danger.

Yet I also don't like her being made stateless.

As I said, mixed.

I think her age is relevant - we are rightly disgusted when adults groom underage girls to have sex with them, but seemingly indifferent when adults groom underage girls to accompany them when they fight for ISIS.

After all that's happened I'm not sure it's reasonable, or even relevant, to judge her by her current thoughts on ISIS, which have sounded thoroughly confused anyway. The issue should be what she's actually done (so far, AFAIK nobody has accused her of anything except being there) and what degree of influence she was under - not what her opinions are. Should the decision be different if she said she was terribly remorseful and planned to join the CoE and the Girl Scouts on returning?

TGOHF is of course right that there are millions of kids in desperate situations and we're focusing on one because it's easier to get our heads round it. But if we are talking about her, my vote on current evidence would be to let her back. The husband? No - if she wants to be with him, then Holland seems to be the natural place.

Gang members are also groomed (often sexually as well, I understand). We can recognise the fact without necessarily having much sympathy for their current actions and ideas. Whether we sympathise or not, what’s most important is breaking the cycle.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

Roger said:

Dura_Ace said:

MaxPB said:

Dura_Ace said:

eek said:

JosiasJessop said:

On domestic matters, it'd be interesting to see how criticism of Javid over the death of Shamima Begum's son plays with the public. Are Abbott and Labour on a winner with their angle?

My Facebook feed has several people who are hopping mad about it; but then they're the Venezuela-supporting, Putin-excusing, Corbyn-loving crowd ...

It's like many things - a great argument until a journalist asks the first question. In this case its "and how, exactly, could we have got them back to the UK?"

She and her dead sprog are in al-Hawl so the UK government could tell the SDF (with whom we will have embedded "advisors") to drive her to the Iraqi border at Rabia (30 minute drive).

Some junior FO spod being punished for some fuck up would meet her at the border with a fresh passport be detailed to take to Irbil airport (maybe a 3 hour drive) and put her on a flight to Stansted via Vienna or Frankfurt. She flies Y class, infant corpse goes in the overhead locker.

If it were Stacey fucking Dooley stuck in that camp do you think the British state couldn't have come up with a way to exfiltrate her?

Possible yes, but why would we do any of that?

Because that kid that The Saj just let die was an innocent British citizen and, because this is unfortunately the real world, you can't repatriate the child without its mother, Jihadi Spice.

If Brexit has taught us anything it's that that the Great British public don't like foreigners particularly if they're Muslim

Maybe you should speak out against this Roger,the local labour MP didn't.

https://twitter.com/_SalmanAnwar/status/1103714269860892672

That is a very interesting post. If you follow his religion what he is saying is unspectacular.. A jewish Rabbi could have stood on that platform and said exactly the same thing using almost identical words The only point of criticism is that he's saying it in public off a trailer. Most Imams and Rabbis and some Catholic branches will be saying the same week in and week out to their followers though not usually in a public place

Roger = homophobe.

Roger = copulation

(according to the Oxford dictionary)

Roger said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Roger = homophobe.

Roger = copulation

(according to the Oxford dictionary)

Roger Moore=best name for a Bond.

DavidL said:

TheAncientMariner said:

DavidL said:

London & Capital Finance have gone bust (surprise, surprise). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47454328

The BBC story is, of course, all about the "victims" who apparently didn't realise that a fixed rate return of 8% on an ISA just might involve some risk. They may not have known that the company that ran the advertising campaign was getting 25% commission on the money raised (making the returns required up to 44% according to the Administrator) but did they really think that was possible?

Am I alone in thinking that these people have been both greedy and stupid and that it is utterly hypocritical to now seek to blame a regulator for them being both?

Not alone - but mistaken - assuming L&C were regulated by the FCA/ PRU then it is obvious that they failed in their regulatory duties. To have form, the FCA should fine the PRU (and vice-versa) substantial amounts for failure to have adequate systems and controls to monitor L&C. The FSCS is there specifically as a 'backstop' should the FCA fail in their duty.

I am not suggesting that the FCA have not been incompetent. Of course they have. But the poor me moaning sticks in my throat.

Yes, I wonder how they rationalized it to themselves. The - entirely justified in my view - bank bashing might be a factor. If you're not good with numbers you might be able to believe that the banks could pay 8% if they weren't swindling us all, and so perhaps this is a plucky underdog outfit finally willing to deal straight with the public.

I would doubt that the knife crime issue is having any political effect.

And I said the same last year when some PBers speculated that it would political damage Sadiq Khan.

This explains why:

' Five victims have died in London, three in Birmingham, one in Manchester and one in Sunderland '

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/04/knife-victims-10-teenagers-killed-in-2019

What the Guardian shows but doesn't mention is that eight of the teenagers were also non-white and five had Islamic names.

To most people knife crime is something which happens among immigrant communities in the inner cities.

It is noticeable that it only got attention when the suburban girl and the private school boy became victims.

Unless there are more victims like that then attention will soon fade.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

ydoethur said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

OT the Cheltenham weather forecast for the first two days features heavy rain and gales. If racing is called off we might have to watch Brexit instead. Sky currently has 7/4 soft and 10/1 heavy for the official going of the Supreme but dyor and remember sometimes the official going is wrong.

Brexit is undoubtedly heavy going, but I don't think it will be soft - it will either be hard or cancelled.

Do you think there will be many hurdles to a successful Brexit?

We're chasing unicorns, not steeples. And t certainly hasn't been a Triumph.

another_richard said:

I would doubt that the knife crime issue is having any political effect.

And I said the same last year when some PBers speculated that it would political damage Sadiq Khan.

This explains why:

' Five victims have died in London, three in Birmingham, one in Manchester and one in Sunderland '

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/04/knife-victims-10-teenagers-killed-in-2019

What the Guardian shows but doesn't mention is that eight of the teenagers were also non-white and five had Islamic names.

To most people knife crime is something which happens among immigrant communities in the inner cities.

It is noticeable that it only got attention when the suburban girl and the private school boy became victims.

Unless there are more victims like that then attention will soon fade.

No, we knew about the Ilford victim before the Harold Hill victim.

Mr. Doethur, hang on. Tim Curry played, effectively, Satan in that film with Tom Cruise. In it, the former wanted to kill the last unicorn.

So is Satan for or against leaving the EU?

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Doethur, hang on. Tim Curry played, effectively, Satan in that film with Tom Cruise. In it, the former wanted to kill the last unicorn.

So is Satan for or against leaving the EU?

What film? If it had Cruise in it I'm guessing it wasn't very good.

Dr. Prasannan, that's the chap.

I know he wasn't really Lucifer, but the figure is, er, somewhat similar.

Mr. Doethur, been a long time since I've seen it, so I couldn't comment either way. Tim Curry can be very entertaining, though.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

another_richard said:

I would doubt that the knife crime issue is having any political effect.

And I said the same last year when some PBers speculated that it would political damage Sadiq Khan.

This explains why:

' Five victims have died in London, three in Birmingham, one in Manchester and one in Sunderland '

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/04/knife-victims-10-teenagers-killed-in-2019

What the Guardian shows but doesn't mention is that eight of the teenagers were also non-white and five had Islamic names.

To most people knife crime is something which happens among immigrant communities in the inner cities.

It is noticeable that it only got attention when the suburban girl and the private school boy became victims.

Unless there are more victims like that then attention will soon fade.

No, we knew about the Ilford victim before the Harold Hill victim.

Well you did with it being your part of the world but I had to google for details which proves my point.

Unless its 'people like me' thirty second news reports are forgotten thirty minutes later.

David's header is excellent, as so often. The Conservatives are effectively letting arguments in domestic policy go by default. I think that it mostly because of Brexit, but also partly because TM and Hammond in particular aren't really committed to free enterprise or personal liberty, so probably have at least some sympathy for Corbynite solutions.

The situation in this respect reminds me of descriptions of the eclipse of the Conservative cause during the Second World War, when the Party basically went into hibernation because its leaders were focused on the overwhelming national task. The central organisation was dormant, there were no party conferences or propaganda, and Labour treated the war as a heaven-sent opportunity to advance its cause. And Labour reaped the benefits in 1945, though a mainly Conservative government had stood up to Hitler and delivered victory.

Let's hope the same doesn't happen in 2022 or whenever. It probably won't, because Corbyn is certainly no Attlee, but you never know.

Morris_Dancer said:

Dr. Prasannan, that's the chap.

I know he wasn't really Lucifer, but the figure is, er, somewhat similar.

Mr. Doethur, been a long time since I've seen it, so I couldn't comment either way. Tim Curry can be very entertaining, though.

It's only the second best cinematic metaphor for Brexit in Ridley-Scott's oeuvre. Alien being the best.

I remember seeing Legend just before Xmas 1985 in Leicester Square with my girlfriend and was rather taken with it.

kjohnw said:

Roger said:

CD13 said:

I had an interesting meeting last week with the old gits I drink with. We meet up sporadically to put the world to rights but one of the group reminded us about the vote we'd taken about 18 months ago. Despite being evenly split on Brexit, we'd decided by five to one that Brexit would never really happen anyway.

Why? because the MPs didn't want it to happen and therefore it wouldn't. There might be a form of BINO where we'd continue to pay money, have no input into decisions, follow the rules and call it Brexit, but it wouldn't be Leave. We're all over sixty and naturally cynical so that probably explains it, but the sole dissenter then has now made it unanimous.

The children continue to bicker, their inexperience of the world obvious, but the MPs see it as a chance to enhance their careers, not enact the will of the people. We had a smile at the innocence of voters, but went on to discuss more important things.

The Remain voters among us were pleased, felt a mixture of guilt and relief, but accepted there would be understandable anger. It's a part of growing up - the realisation that the world isn't as you thought it was.. Democracy is fine, as long as it's controlled. Certain things are not allowed.

We tend to have amicable arguments only about politics. MPs lie, good politicians do it with an air of sincerity. That's life. Raging against the dying of the light assumes there was light to begin with.

The mistake was allowing 'old gits' to have a vote in the first place. It's the future we're talking about so leave the decision to those who it'll affect.

A future where our sovereignty is taken away from us and slowly replaced with a soviet style union with one president one currency one set of laws One army , one anthem , power in the hands of the unaccountable wealthy elite, ruling over the plebs who are too thick to understand the complicated issues of government , which benefits big business, the rich lining their pockets at the expense of the poor, rules and dictats coming down from the echelons of Brussels telling how we have to live our lives, what we can and can’t eat , what we can and cannot say, loss of freedom of speech, and law making body that doesn’t have the protections of the magna carta and habeus corpus, erosion of our hard won freedoms , in the interests of European Unity, it’s a failed project and ultimately will self destruct .
Great future that Roger

I'm sure Roger would do very well out of it though...

malcolmg said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

What I don't understand is this - are the Tory ministers actually stupid or do they believe they are the only not stupid people and that everyone else is stupid.

Crime as an example. As the Tories took a knife to police funding Home Secretary May was told in explicit detail what would happen to intelligence gathering and the awful consequences of that. No it won't she told the police, only for it to happen exactly as described.

Now we have the spectacle of ministers trying to insist that May was right, what the police said would happen thanks to cuts might have happened but its definitely not down to cuts, and besides which here's more money so it's fixed. That the money proffered is a fraction of what has been cut doesn't seem to register.

It's the old rule. Voters will vote for a competent bastard or an incompetent sweetie, but not an incompetent bastard. Which the Tories demonstrably are. Except of course that Brexit remains the wild card along with Jezbollah, and almost anything unpredictable can happen going forward

Would you be willing to see stop and search increased as a temporary measure to try to tackle knife crime, whilst longer-term measure are introduced?

Yes. Whilst I understand the concerns of the BAME communities about stop and search, it is predominantly their communities who are both carrying knives and falling victim to knives.

Never mind temporary , they should be swamping these places, rounding up the knife carriers and locking them up for a very long time. Stop the liberal snowflake whining about it being racist or not nice or whatever, just stop it. Police seem to have time to chase people when some halfwit phones up and says they have been offended by a comment on twitter. Get those that are left out on the streets nicking these halfwits.

Lots of Police personell do not like walking around town aimlessly with a big hat on anymore.

The current domestic settlement has broken down. Labour gets that. What it doesn’t get is that with the far left in charge it will never have the chance to do anything about it.

Yorkcity said:

malcolmg said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

What I don't understand is this - are the Tory ministers actually stupid or do they believe they are the only not stupid people and that everyone else is stupid.

Crime as an example. As the Tories took a knife to police funding Home Secretary May was told in explicit detail what would happen to intelligence gathering and the awful consequences of that. No it won't she told the police, only for it to happen exactly as described.

Now we have the spectacle of ministers trying to insist that May was right, what the police said would happen thanks to cuts might have happened but its definitely not down to cuts, and besides which here's more money so it's fixed. That the money proffered is a fraction of what has been cut doesn't seem to register.

It's the old rule. Voters will vote for a competent bastard or an incompetent sweetie, but not an incompetent bastard. Which the Tories demonstrably are. Except of course that Brexit remains the wild card along with Jezbollah, and almost anything unpredictable can happen going forward

Would you be willing to see stop and search increased as a temporary measure to try to tackle knife crime, whilst longer-term measure are introduced?

Yes. Whilst I understand the concerns of the BAME communities about stop and search, it is predominantly their communities who are both carrying knives and falling victim to knives.

Never mind temporary , they should be swamping these places, rounding up the knife carriers and locking them up for a very long time. Stop the liberal snowflake whining about it being racist or not nice or whatever, just stop it. Police seem to have time to chase people when some halfwit phones up and says they have been offended by a comment on twitter. Get those that are left out on the streets nicking these halfwits.

Lots of Police personell do not like walking around town aimlessly with a big hat on anymore.

If Corbyn gets in they'll all be wearing flat caps.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Doethur, hang on. Tim Curry played, effectively, Satan in that film with Tom Cruise. In it, the former wanted to kill the last unicorn.

So is Satan for or against leaving the EU?

Satan is a libertarian.

GIN1138 said:

Yorkcity said:

malcolmg said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

What I don't understand is this - are the Tory ministers actually stupid or do they believe they are the only not stupid people and that everyone else is stupid.

Crime as an example. As the Tories took a knife to police funding Home Secretary May was told in explicit detail what would happen to intelligence gathering and the awful consequences of that. No it won't she told the police, only for it to happen exactly as described.

Now we have the spectacle of ministers trying to insist that May was right, what the police said would happen thanks to cuts might have happened but its definitely not down to cuts, and besides which here's more money so it's fixed. That the money proffered is a fraction of what has been cut doesn't seem to register.

It's the old rule. Voters will vote for a competent bastard or an incompetent sweetie, but not an incompetent bastard. Which the Tories demonstrably are. Except of course that Brexit remains the wild card along with Jezbollah, and almost anything unpredictable can happen going forward

Would you be willing to see stop and search increased as a temporary measure to try to tackle knife crime, whilst longer-term measure are introduced?

Yes. Whilst I understand the concerns of the BAME communities about stop and search, it is predominantly their communities who are both carrying knives and falling victim to knives.

Never mind temporary , they should be swamping these places, rounding up the knife carriers and locking them up for a very long time. Stop the liberal snowflake whining about it being racist or not nice or whatever, just stop it. Police seem to have time to chase people when some halfwit phones up and says they have been offended by a comment on twitter. Get those that are left out on the streets nicking these halfwits.

Lots of Police personell do not like walking around town aimlessly with a big hat on anymore.

No they'd rather drive around aimlessly in a comfortable, air-conditioned car.

True , the walking around with a big hat on , is to reassure the public.
As my control Sgt used to say "show the flag ".
However was not seen as effective.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

I have not been posting too much as I am listening to less news and getting on with my life and family

The constant arguing and often bitterness is wearying and I see no immediate end in sight

However, next week will be interesting and I do believe TM's deal will fall due to ERG purity, no deal will be voted down and an extension requested. Seems the ERG are looking for a 21 month extension convinced that they will achieve a clean break, when in truth the longer the more likely is that no brexit is the final destination

I suspect many in the ERG want 21 more months of generous speaking and appearance fees to drone on about the evils of Europe. If we ever left, their gravy train would be left to rust in the sidings.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

Which would mean an increase in properties for sale thus boosting home ownership.

Fishing said:

David's header is excellent, as so often. The Conservatives are effectively letting arguments in domestic policy go by default. I think that it mostly because of Brexit, but also partly because TM and Hammond in particular aren't really committed to free enterprise or personal liberty, so probably have at least some sympathy for Corbynite solutions.

The situation in this respect reminds me of descriptions of the eclipse of the Conservative cause during the Second World War, when the Party basically went into hibernation because its leaders were focused on the overwhelming national task. The central organisation was dormant, there were no party conferences or propaganda, and Labour treated the war as a heaven-sent opportunity to advance its cause. And Labour reaped the benefits in 1945, though a mainly Conservative government had stood up to Hitler and delivered victory.

Let's hope the same doesn't happen in 2022 or whenever. It probably won't, because Corbyn is certainly no Attlee, but you never know.

I think you’ll find it was many millions of ordinary men and women who stood up to Hitler and delivered victory.

Roger said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Roger said:

Tykejohnno said:

Roger said:

Dura_Ace said:

MaxPB said:

Dura_Ace said:

eek said:

JosiasJessop said:

On domestic matters, it'd be interesting to see how criticism of Javid over the death of Shamima Begum's son plays with the public. Are Abbott and Labour on a winner with their angle?

My Facebook feed has several people who are hopping mad about it; but then they're the Venezuela-supporting, Putin-excusing, Corbyn-loving crowd ...

It's like many things - a great argument until a journalist asks the first question. In this case its "and how, exactly, could we have got them back to the UK?"

She and her dead sprog are in al-Hawl so the UK government could tell the SDF (with whom we will have embedded "advisors") to drive her to the Iraqi border at Rabia (30 minute drive).

Some junior FO spod being punished for some fuck up would meet her at the border with a fresh passport be detailed to take to Irbil airport (maybe a 3 hour drive) and put her on a flight to Stansted via Vienna or Frankfurt. She flies Y class, infant corpse goes in the overhead locker.

If it were Stacey fucking Dooley stuck in that camp do you think the British state couldn't have come up with a way to exfiltrate her?

Possible yes, but why would we do any of that?

Because that kid that The Saj just let die was an innocent British citizen and, because this is unfortunately the real world, you can't repatriate the child without its mother, Jihadi Spice.

If Brexit has taught us anything it's that that the Great British public don't like foreigners particularly if they're Muslim

Maybe you should speak out against this Roger,the local labour MP didn't.

https://twitter.com/_SalmanAnwar/status/1103714269860892672

That is a very interesting post. If you follow his religion what he is saying is unspectacular.. A jewish Rabbi could have stood on that platform and said exactly the same thing using almost identical words The only point of criticism is that he's saying it in public off a trailer. Most Imams and Rabbis and some Catholic branches will be saying the same week in and week out to their followers though not usually in a public place

Roger = homophobe.

Roger = copulation

(according to the Oxford dictionary)

"It was Roger the lodger, the sod."

SouthamObserver said:

Fishing said:

David's header is excellent, as so often. The Conservatives are effectively letting arguments in domestic policy go by default. I think that it mostly because of Brexit, but also partly because TM and Hammond in particular aren't really committed to free enterprise or personal liberty, so probably have at least some sympathy for Corbynite solutions.

The situation in this respect reminds me of descriptions of the eclipse of the Conservative cause during the Second World War, when the Party basically went into hibernation because its leaders were focused on the overwhelming national task. The central organisation was dormant, there were no party conferences or propaganda, and Labour treated the war as a heaven-sent opportunity to advance its cause. And Labour reaped the benefits in 1945, though a mainly Conservative government had stood up to Hitler and delivered victory.

Let's hope the same doesn't happen in 2022 or whenever. It probably won't, because Corbyn is certainly no Attlee, but you never know.

I think you’ll find it was many millions of ordinary men and women who stood up to Hitler and delivered victory.

If memory serves, only 50% of Ministers in the wartime coalition were Tory. Of the other six, five were Labour and one was John Anderson, a neutral (technocratic, we would call him).

dixiedean said:

another_richard said:

dixiedean said:

Political and economic consensuses tend to have a shelf life of around roughly 30 to 40 years. The idea that an economic hegemony or political philosophy "wins" is for the birds. They do so only temporarily.
A challenger emerges, often an old idea, slightly re packaged, And becomes dominant.
A cursory look at history shows that.
The Party which embraces change at this pivot point wins out, at least short term.

The established order becomes complacent and corrupt and so becomes not fit for current purpose.

The bailed out banks and tax dodging globalised businesses are examples of this.

Yes. See also privatisation of probation, jails, Carillion. Suspect schools to be next, short of funds while heads of academy chains pay themselves eye-watering sums.

Indeed.

The university boom is another.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Doethur, hang on. Tim Curry played, effectively, Satan in that film with Tom Cruise. In it, the former wanted to kill the last unicorn.

So is Satan for or against leaving the EU?

He clearly isn't a Tigger. He'd have taken a third of the MPs with him if he were.

DavidL said:

London & Capital Finance have gone bust (surprise, surprise). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47454328

The BBC story is, of course, all about the "victims" who apparently didn't realise that a fixed rate return of 8% on an ISA just might involve some risk. They may not have known that the company that ran the advertising campaign was getting 25% commission on the money raised (making the returns required up to 44% according to the Administrator) but did they really think that was possible?

Am I alone in thinking that these people have been both greedy and stupid and that it is utterly hypocritical to now seek to blame a regulator for them being both?

Reminds me of people investing in Icelandic Banks back in 08.
I did not agree at the time with our government compensating them.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1104318740571795456

Jess is very engaging and funny but PM ??????

Yes please! Better than incumbent, predecessor and leading candidates.

another_richard said:

dixiedean said:

another_richard said:

dixiedean said:

Political and economic consensuses tend to have a shelf life of around roughly 30 to 40 years. The idea that an economic hegemony or political philosophy "wins" is for the birds. They do so only temporarily.
A challenger emerges, often an old idea, slightly re packaged, And becomes dominant.
A cursory look at history shows that.
The Party which embraces change at this pivot point wins out, at least short term.

The established order becomes complacent and corrupt and so becomes not fit for current purpose.

The bailed out banks and tax dodging globalised businesses are examples of this.

Yes. See also privatisation of probation, jails, Carillion. Suspect schools to be next, short of funds while heads of academy chains pay themselves eye-watering sums.

Indeed.

The university boom is another.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a wave of strikes in schools over the next four months. There is a very very nasty nationwide financial catastrophe brewing for them. The government has said it will plug the gap for maintained schools for next year, but they may well have got their sums wrong. Redundancies and massive class sizes are another possibility.

The catch is that I expect it to bring a huge number of other very serious issues simmering away below the service around exam reform, workload, facilities, pay and conditions to the boil. The whole thing could unwind with catastrophic results. It is, for example, not out of the questions that no exams will be marked this summer.

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

I have not been posting too much as I am listening to less news and getting on with my life and family

The constant arguing and often bitterness is wearying and I see no immediate end in sight

However, next week will be interesting and I do believe TM's deal will fall due to ERG purity, no deal will be voted down and an extension requested. Seems the ERG are looking for a 21 month extension convinced that they will achieve a clean break, when in truth the longer the more likely is that no brexit is the final destination

If indefinite tenancies were to be enacted, I would be compelled to give my tenant notice. Something I have been trying to avoid doing for three years, even at considerable personal cost.

The first effect would be a huge spike in homelessness. The second effect would be a slump in house prices, which is not necessarily a bad thing. The third would be a freezing of capital markets. Hmmm. That's two of three effects that are negative. And the fourth would be a huge rise in rents, unless that barely coherent lunatic Lloyd Russell-Moyle gets his way.

This would be a possible solution if we had a big council housing network. We don't. And if we had it, it wouldn't be necessary. A phrase about carts and horses springs to mind.

Well, the Corbyn project is all about the radical reashaping of the economy, isn’t it ?
A process which traditionally involves breaking it completely and reconstructing the pieces in a less functional form.

ydoethur said:

Yorkcity said:

malcolmg said:

RochdalePioneers said:

JosiasJessop said:

RochdalePioneers said:

What I don't understand is this - are the Tory ministers actually stupid or do they believe they are the only not stupid people and that everyone else is stupid.

Crime as an example. As the Tories took a knife to police funding Home Secretary May was told in explicit detail what would happen to intelligence gathering and the awful consequences of that. No it won't she told the police, only for it to happen exactly as described.

Now we have the spectacle of ministers trying to insist that May was right, what the police said would happen thanks to cuts might have happened but its definitely not down to cuts, and besides which here's more money so it's fixed. That the money proffered is a fraction of what has been cut doesn't seem to register.

It's the old rule. Voters will vote for a competent bastard or an incompetent sweetie, but not an incompetent bastard. Which the Tories demonstrably are. Except of course that Brexit remains the wild card along with Jezbollah, and almost anything unpredictable can happen going forward

Would you be willing to see stop and search increased as a temporary measure to try to tackle knife crime, whilst longer-term measure are introduced?

Yes. Whilst I understand the concerns of the BAME communities about stop and search, it is predominantly their communities who are both carrying knives and falling victim to knives.

Never mind temporary , they should be swamping these places, rounding up the knife carriers and locking them up for a very long time. Stop the liberal snowflake whining about it being racist or not nice or whatever, just stop it. Police seem to have time to chase people when some halfwit phones up and says they have been offended by a comment on twitter. Get those that are left out on the streets nicking these halfwits.

Lots of Police personell do not like walking around town aimlessly with a big hat on anymore.

If Corbyn gets in they'll all be wearing flat caps.

If Abbott gets her way they will be history

“We are not interested in reforming … the police, armed services, judiciary and monarchy. We are about dismantling them and replacing them with our own machinery of class rule.”

another_richard said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

Which would mean an increase in properties for sale thus boosting home ownership.

Only by a negligible amount. Osborne's tax changes means it's already cheaper to buy to live in tban buy to let.

Most renters do so because they are not in a position to buy. Either because they don't want to buy or can not afford to. Not because there's not enough homes on the market.

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

I have not been posting too much as I am listening to less news and getting on with my life and family

The constant arguing and often bitterness is wearying and I see no immediate end in sight

However, next week will be interesting and I do believe TM's deal will fall due to ERG purity, no deal will be voted down and an extension requested. Seems the ERG are looking for a 21 month extension convinced that they will achieve a clean break, when in truth the longer the more likely is that no brexit is the final destination

If indefinite tenancies were to be enacted, I would be compelled to give my tenant notice. Something I have been trying to avoid doing for three years, even at considerable personal cost.

The first effect would be a huge spike in homelessness. The second effect would be a slump in house prices, which is not necessarily a bad thing. The third would be a freezing of capital markets. Hmmm. That's two of three effects that are negative. And the fourth would be a huge rise in rents, unless that barely coherent lunatic Lloyd Russell-Moyle gets his way.

This would be a possible solution if we had a big council housing network. We don't. And if we had it, it wouldn't be necessary. A phrase about carts and horses springs to mind.

Well, the Corbyn project is all about the radical reashaping of the economy, isn’t it ?
A process which traditionally involves breaking it completely and reconstructing the pieces in a less functional form

And which traditionally affects the poorest most severely. Which of course a bunch of Islington based posh boys with mortgage free houses worth seven figures don't know or care about.

rottenborough said:

Sean_F said:

another_richard said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

Which would mean an increase in properties for sale thus boosting home ownership.

And would hurt Labour in the long run.

Is there a link to this indefinite tenancies policy? I thought they were looking at 3 year tenancies.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-would-protect-renters-german-14108707

Along with John McDonnell, Theresa May is the most accomplished liar in British politics because, like him, she does it so easily, so frequently and with no discomfort whatsoever. It’s quite a thing.

https://twitter.com/jdportes/status/1104058852931190784?s=21

Law and order no longer plays for the Tories as once it did.

Yorkcity said:

DavidL said:

London & Capital Finance have gone bust (surprise, surprise). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47454328

The BBC story is, of course, all about the "victims" who apparently didn't realise that a fixed rate return of 8% on an ISA just might involve some risk. They may not have known that the company that ran the advertising campaign was getting 25% commission on the money raised (making the returns required up to 44% according to the Administrator) but did they really think that was possible?

Am I alone in thinking that these people have been both greedy and stupid and that it is utterly hypocritical to now seek to blame a regulator for them being both?

Reminds me of people investing in Icelandic Banks back in 08.
I did not agree at the time with our government compensating them.

I've invested previously and received 12% PA on investments related to property. The key with high risk investments is to get in early when the bonus incentives are about, then be first out the door before the book starts turning bad.

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sean_F said:

another_richard said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

Which would mean an increase in properties for sale thus boosting home ownership.

And would hurt Labour in the long run.

Is there a link to this indefinite tenancies policy? I thought they were looking at 3 year tenancies.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-would-protect-renters-german-14108707

As a fellow accidental landlord, it looks like I will now have to sell before GE 2022. I do not want to be in a position where I am responsible for letting out a house for the rest of my life. I was looking at maybe another five to ten years max.

I suppose the details will be important: can a tenancy be terminated in order to sell the property? If not, then no wonder the Labour Party want out of the human rights of the EU. Right to enjoy property is one I believe.

Comrade Borough, the right to property will be maintained - for the state!

The proletariat do not get to enjoy such riches so why should the bourgeois middle classes?! Only the state is wise enough to enjoy unfettered wealth, which it shall then benevolently bestow upon those workers who meet their quotas, praise their leader, and submit to biannual re-education without complaint.

rottenborough said:

The party leader you have never heard of:

https://twitter.com/WilliamClouston

SDP will contest Newport.

Newport will be the 1,020th by-election since the 1918 general election according to my calculations (which are sometimes correct!)

Mr. Roger, people tend to be happier condemning men than women for crime, and less willing to look for mitigating circumstances.

In fairness, men are more violent than women (the reason there's such a gender disparity in the prison population is mostly down to behaviour, although men do get treated somewhat more harshly by the justice system). However, the lack of forgiveness or interest in majority male issues is in stark contrast to issues that affect mostly women.

Take boardrooms. A tiny percentage of people ever get on a board, yet there's been far more in the media about the male majority there than there has been about the far larger male majority (circa 90%, i think) amongst the homeless. Or the male majority (about 75%) for suicides, although this (in terms of media coverage) is changing.

rottenborough said:

ydoethur said:

rottenborough said:

Sean_F said:

another_richard said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Labour to introduce indefinite tenancies which of course will end buy to let and devastate properties for rent, thereby increasing rents substantially. They do not have a clue

Which would mean an increase in properties for sale thus boosting home ownership.

And would hurt Labour in the long run.

Is there a link to this indefinite tenancies policy? I thought they were looking at 3 year tenancies.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-would-protect-renters-german-14108707

As a fellow accidental landlord, it looks like I will now have to sell before GE 2022. I do not want to be in a position where I am responsible for letting out a house for the rest of my life. I was looking at maybe another five to ten years max.

I suppose the details will be important: can a tenancy be terminated in order to sell the property? If not, then no wonder the Labour Party want out of the human rights of the EU. Right to enjoy property is one I believe.

Scotland already has indefinite tenancies. So I guess that could be the model.

Details here:

https://blog.openrent.co.uk/scotland-axes-no-fault-evictions-new-tenancy-rules/

The landlord can evict if selling within three months.

Let's hope Labour adopt these rules.

https://twitter.com/LincolnJopp/status/1103425925486727169