politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Govey maintaining and extending his lead in the next CON leade
Comments
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presure rising on Irish government to come clean
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/you-are-treating-us-as-if-we-are-stupid-minister-refuses-to-answer-questions-on-plans-for-hard-border-37740349.html0 -
Even more so at the moment when we had May vs Corbyn on plan B earlier in the week.Alanbrooke said:
It's all a meaningless piece of theatreTOPPING said:score draw so far
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Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
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I will be voting for someone who is as close to the centre ground as possible. You might be surprised how many Tory party members will do the same. Not all of us have swivel eyes and take our opinions from the Daily Express or Mail or ConHome. We would like the Conservative Party to return to sanity, though that might be forlorn hope.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not merottenborough said:
I'm not a member, but from outside it looks to me as if Tory members have hardened considerably over Brexit since Cameron's election and now want an out and out Leaver ultra at any price.kinabalu said:
Well David Cameron had a very punchable face - that sleek and well fed 'born to rule' visage was just made for it - but he romped home with the members due to his quality as a candidate.MarqueeMark said:When the members do finally get a choice, they will probably be thinking "oh crap...." In that case, the one who they would least like to punch in the face will get their vote.
Under most every scenario, that rules out Gove.
He was up against a formidable opponent too. OK, David Davis has become something of a comical figure now but back then, in the prime of life and fizzing with energy and ideas, he was quite something.
So Gove versus, say, Hancock? Or even against Gauke?
Nolo contendere IMHO.
Happy to be corrected.0 -
AbsolutelyNigel_Foremain said:
I will be voting for someone who is as close to the centre ground as possible. You might be surprised how many Tory party members will do the same. Not all of us have swivel eyes and take our opinions from the Daily Express or Mail or ConHome. We would like the Conservative Party to return to sanity, though that might be forlorn hope.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not merottenborough said:
I'm not a member, but from outside it looks to me as if Tory members have hardened considerably over Brexit since Cameron's election and now want an out and out Leaver ultra at any price.kinabalu said:
Well David Cameron had a very punchable face - that sleek and well fed 'born to rule' visage was just made for it - but he romped home with the members due to his quality as a candidate.MarqueeMark said:When the members do finally get a choice, they will probably be thinking "oh crap...." In that case, the one who they would least like to punch in the face will get their vote.
Under most every scenario, that rules out Gove.
He was up against a formidable opponent too. OK, David Davis has become something of a comical figure now but back then, in the prime of life and fizzing with energy and ideas, he was quite something.
So Gove versus, say, Hancock? Or even against Gauke?
Nolo contendere IMHO.
Happy to be corrected.0 -
That does more than adding a remain option, doesn't it? It changes a Deal: Yes or No referendum to a Remain or Deal referendum.Scott_P said:0 -
At this rate Ireland will be asking the EU to ask the UK to ask the EU for an extension.Alanbrooke said:
presure rising on Irish government to come clean
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/you-are-treating-us-as-if-we-are-stupid-minister-refuses-to-answer-questions-on-plans-for-hard-border-37740349.html0 -
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Gove had an impressive performance in the Commons before the VONC vote but he needs to improve his polling to avoid being a gift to Corbyn.
It is also hard to see the Tory membership not electing a No Dealer if and when May goes0 -
Yep. I will be seriously out of pocket if JRM gets the job, but the opportunity to bet against him when he was the favourite seemed way too good to pass.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
the Irish have bet the farm on Mays deal. they have made no plans and their strategy of throwing everything back at Westminster has fallen apart as Westminster is massively divided.Chris said:
At this rate Ireland will be asking the EU to ask the UK to ask the EU for an extension.Alanbrooke said:
presure rising on Irish government to come clean
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/you-are-treating-us-as-if-we-are-stupid-minister-refuses-to-answer-questions-on-plans-for-hard-border-37740349.html
Varadkar is in dire need of a deal.0 -
I suspect you don’t much about either one nation conservatives or why Leave won if you think that.Nigel_Foremain said:
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Depends on where we are. If we have already left, with or without a deal, it won't matter has much.HYUFD said:Gove had an impressive performance in the Commons before the VONC vote but he needs to improve his polling to avoid being a gift to Corbyn.
It is also hard to see the Tory membership not electing a No Dealer if and when May goes0 -
I find that quite surprising (the apparent total lack of tourists), as my recollection from working in the travel business in the 70's and early 80's was that Yugoslavia was a hugely popular destination for UK holidaymakers. There were direct flights from many UK airports to all Yugoslavian airports with a well developed tourism infrastructure.Cyclefree said:
I went there before the war, when it was still Yugoslavia. Got on a boat which sailed down from Rijeka. Slept on deck, watched the sun rise and when we landed we’d go into town to buy whatever food was available in the market. Seeing these towns from the sea was glorious. There were no tourists. I was the only foreigner and communicating was difficult - a lot of pointing and hand gestures to indicate the size of the loaf I wanted. The only people I found who wanted to speak English were some youths who wanted my views on football. So a lot of bluffing followed. Strangely (or perhaps not) in Slovenia, where I started out, they were very reluctant to speak any Italian.AlastairMeeks said:
Dubrovnik is very pretty but chock-a-block with third agers off the cruise liners blocking the narrow streets shouting in cut-glass accents: "Darling. Darling? Could you just step back a bit so I can get you in the photo completely?"Sean_F said:People tell me that Davos is a soulless dump, anyway. There are much nicer places you could go to for a freebie, like Oxford, or Dubrovnik, or Prague.
It broke my heart to see Dubrovnik and other places being shelled and bombed a few years later.
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Very power question from John Mann on a young man's suicide0
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I don’t think he was ever interested. He is just a Johnson acolyte without some of Johnson’s more obvious character flaws.IanB2 said:
Yep. I will be seriously out of pocket if JRM gets the job, but the opportunity to bet against him when he was the favourite seemed way too good to pass.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
+1Nigel_Foremain said:
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Cyclefree means before the Second World War, when the Balkans was free of any tourists save herself and Rebecca West.wf1954 said:
I find that quite surprising (the apparent total lack of tourists), as my recollection from working in the travel business in the 70's and early 80's was that Yugoslavia was a hugely popular destination for UK holidaymakers. There were direct flights from many UK airports to all Yugoslavian airports with a well developed tourism infrastructure.Cyclefree said:
I went there before the war, when it was still Yugoslavia. Got on a boat which sailed down from Rijeka. Slept on deck, watched the sun rise and when we landed we’d go into town to buy whatever food was available in the market. Seeing these towns from the sea was glorious. There were no tourists. I was the only foreigner and communicating was difficult - a lot of pointing and hand gestures to indicate the size of the loaf I wanted. The only people I found who wanted to speak English were some youths who wanted my views on football. So a lot of bluffing followed. Strangely (or perhaps not) in Slovenia, where I started out, they were very reluctant to speak any Italian.AlastairMeeks said:
Dubrovnik is very pretty but chock-a-block with third agers off the cruise liners blocking the narrow streets shouting in cut-glass accents: "Darling. Darling? Could you just step back a bit so I can get you in the photo completely?"Sean_F said:People tell me that Davos is a soulless dump, anyway. There are much nicer places you could go to for a freebie, like Oxford, or Dubrovnik, or Prague.
It broke my heart to see Dubrovnik and other places being shelled and bombed a few years later.0 -
Betting post!
The odds for another referendum on betfair are 15/8. That's a 33% chance. 1 in 3.
Now setting aside all of the arguments about whether it would be a good or a bad idea - the correct answer is bad - what do we make of these odds? BTW it has to be one with Remain as an option to count for this market, and it has to take place this year.
Think of the obstacles. PM resolutely opposed. LOTO resolutely opposed. Less parliamentary backing amongst MPs than for almost any other feasible course of action bar a No Deal crash out. The time it would take to legislate for and arrange. The bun fight over the question and the formulation.
And then forget all of that, the details, and simply consider it as a prospect. We all remember the 2016 one like it was yesterday. How it galvanized and captured the country. The commitment it took. The energy. The sense of participating in something massive and historic and one time. The gravity and import of that terrible result as it sunk in.
I ask you, can we really envisage going through that again this year?
Really?
I certainly can't. It remains a possible technique that could be used to break a parliamentary impasse - so I am not going to rule it out - but I submit that it is no way a 1 in 3 chance. It is a 1 in 5 chance at absolute best.
EU referendum in 2019 - a bad kisser but a great lay.0 -
I would like to respond to you properly, but your first sentence is not understandable, but try I must! I do fully understand why Leave won, and I know a good deal about One Nation Conservatism as it is a belief set I have followed for about 30 years as a voter, and also one time senior Conservative Party activist. I am quite comfortable in my comprehension of both subjects, thank you.AmpfieldAndy said:
I suspect you don’t much about either one nation conservatives or why Leave won if you think that.Nigel_Foremain said:
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Nick Timothy represents perfectly the way in which the elite in this country reward serial incompetence. Once on board the establishment gravy train it is almost impossibel to fall-off ...
Apart from the rude ones, there is only one word for the fact that Theresa May’s former chief of staff Nick Timothy has been made a board member of the organising committee of the 2022 Commonwealth Games in Birmingham. Inevitable. This is simply how stuff works. I’m only sorry our denuded empire means Nick can’t be given an Indian province or something. Or at least a go on Malaya.
The ways Timothy’s latest appointment were inevitable are many and various, and we’ll come to them shortly. But we must begin with a recap of how we got here. Because, of course, Nick wasn’t always the crayonner of red lines, the taxer of dementia, the shitter of the electoral bed. And, in one potential timeline, the parliamentary-maths-destroyer that ends up causing no-deal Brexit.
Brilliant stuff.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/jan/23/nick-timothy-commonwealth-games-birmingham-2022-theresa-may0 -
Before the Second World War, the Balkans were very popular with tourists - especially Nazi Party members....Gardenwalker said:
Cyclefree means before the Second World War, when the Balkans was free of any tourists save herself and Rebecca West.wf1954 said:
I find that quite surprising (the apparent total lack of tourists), as my recollection from working in the travel business in the 70's and early 80's was that Yugoslavia was a hugely popular destination for UK holidaymakers. There were direct flights from many UK airports to all Yugoslavian airports with a well developed tourism infrastructure.Cyclefree said:
I went there before the war, when it was still Yugoslavia. Got on a boat which sailed down from Rijeka. Slept on deck, watched the sun rise and when we landed we’d go into town to buy whatever food was available in the market. Seeing these towns from the sea was glorious. There were no tourists. I was the only foreigner and communicating was difficult - a lot of pointing and hand gestures to indicate the size of the loaf I wanted. The only people I found who wanted to speak English were some youths who wanted my views on football. So a lot of bluffing followed. Strangely (or perhaps not) in Slovenia, where I started out, they were very reluctant to speak any Italian.AlastairMeeks said:
Dubrovnik is very pretty but chock-a-block with third agers off the cruise liners blocking the narrow streets shouting in cut-glass accents: "Darling. Darling? Could you just step back a bit so I can get you in the photo completely?"Sean_F said:People tell me that Davos is a soulless dump, anyway. There are much nicer places you could go to for a freebie, like Oxford, or Dubrovnik, or Prague.
It broke my heart to see Dubrovnik and other places being shelled and bombed a few years later.0 -
Which is a distinct improvement as it means there is a clear cut question with 2 defined achievable options without the mess that an undefined Not May's Deal question would result in.Chris said:
That does more than adding a remain option, doesn't it? It changes a Deal: Yes or No referendum to a Remain or Deal referendum.Scott_P said:0 -
The impasse has to be resolved somehow. Throwing the decision back to the people is potentially the least fraught. It would be an admission of defeat, of course, but the politicians look defeated just now.kinabalu said:Betting post!
The odds for another referendum on betfair are 15/8. That's a 33% chance. 1 in 3.
Now setting aside all of the arguments about whether it would be a good or a bad idea - the correct answer is bad - what do we make of these odds? BTW it has to be one with Remain as an option to count for this market, and it has to take place this year.
Think of the obstacles. PM resolutely opposed. LOTO resolutely opposed. Less parliamentary backing amongst MPs than for almost any other feasible course of action bar a No Deal crash out. The time it would take to legislate for and arrange. The bun fight over the question and the formulation.
And then forget all of that, the details, and simply consider it as a prospect. We all remember the 2016 one like it was yesterday. How it galvanized and captured the country. The commitment it took. The energy. The sense of participating in something massive and historic and one time. The gravity and import of that terrible result as it sunk in.
I ask you, can we really envisage going through that again this year?
Really?
I certainly can't. It remains a possible technique that could be used to break a parliamentary impasse - so I am not going to rule it out - but I submit that it is no way a 1 in 3 chance. It is a 1 in 5 chance at absolute best.
EU referendum in 2019 - a bad kisser but a great lay.
Given the complete absence of a consensus for anything else, it still looks to me more likely than not.0 -
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
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Those who profess they know it all seldom do in my experience.Nigel_Foremain said:
I would like to respond to you properly, but your first sentence is not understandable, but try I must! I do fully understand why Leave won, and I know a good deal about One Nation Conservatism as it is a belief set I have followed for about 30 years as a voter, and also one time senior Conservative Party activist. I am quite comfortable in my comprehension of both subjects, thank you.AmpfieldAndy said:
I suspect you don’t much about either one nation conservatives or why Leave won if you think that.Nigel_Foremain said:
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
It is all too true.SouthamObserver said:Nick Timothy represents perfectly the way in which the elite in this country reward serial incompetence. Once on board the establishment gravy train it is almost impossibel to fall-off ...
Apart from the rude ones, there is only one word for the fact that Theresa May’s former chief of staff Nick Timothy has been made a board member of the organising committee of the 2022 Commonwealth Games in Birmingham. Inevitable. This is simply how stuff works. I’m only sorry our denuded empire means Nick can’t be given an Indian province or something. Or at least a go on Malaya.
The ways Timothy’s latest appointment were inevitable are many and various, and we’ll come to them shortly. But we must begin with a recap of how we got here. Because, of course, Nick wasn’t always the crayonner of red lines, the taxer of dementia, the shitter of the electoral bed. And, in one potential timeline, the parliamentary-maths-destroyer that ends up causing no-deal Brexit.
Brilliant stuff.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/jan/23/nick-timothy-commonwealth-games-birmingham-2022-theresa-may
But, of course it happens regardless, for red or blue or even yellow.
When we finally got rid of our useless Blairite MP, she was immediately appointed to a top job in the Health Service.
There is always room for a Timothy at the top, just as there is always room for a Hoon or a Hewitt.0 -
Any MP voting to hand it back to the voters because "Brexit is too difficult" should resign their seat upon doing so. They were elected to govern.AlastairMeeks said:
The impasse has to be resolved somehow. Throwing the decision back to the people is potentially the least fraught. It would be an admission of defeat, of course, but the politicians look defeated just now.kinabalu said:Betting post!
The odds for another referendum on betfair are 15/8. That's a 33% chance. 1 in 3.
Now setting aside all of the arguments about whether it would be a good or a bad idea - the correct answer is bad - what do we make of these odds? BTW it has to be one with Remain as an option to count for this market, and it has to take place this year.
Think of the obstacles. PM resolutely opposed. LOTO resolutely opposed. Less parliamentary backing amongst MPs than for almost any other feasible course of action bar a No Deal crash out. The time it would take to legislate for and arrange. The bun fight over the question and the formulation.
And then forget all of that, the details, and simply consider it as a prospect. We all remember the 2016 one like it was yesterday. How it galvanized and captured the country. The commitment it took. The energy. The sense of participating in something massive and historic and one time. The gravity and import of that terrible result as it sunk in.
I ask you, can we really envisage going through that again this year?
Really?
I certainly can't. It remains a possible technique that could be used to break a parliamentary impasse - so I am not going to rule it out - but I submit that it is no way a 1 in 3 chance. It is a 1 in 5 chance at absolute best.
EU referendum in 2019 - a bad kisser but a great lay.
Given the complete absence of a consensus for anything else, it still looks to me more likely than not.0 -
I'm sure we could all learn a great deal from your humility.AmpfieldAndy said:
Those who profess they know it all seldom do in my experience.Nigel_Foremain said:
I would like to respond to you properly, but your first sentence is not understandable, but try I must! I do fully understand why Leave won, and I know a good deal about One Nation Conservatism as it is a belief set I have followed for about 30 years as a voter, and also one time senior Conservative Party activist. I am quite comfortable in my comprehension of both subjects, thank you.AmpfieldAndy said:
I suspect you don’t much about either one nation conservatives or why Leave won if you think that.Nigel_Foremain said:
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
I didn't say that. Your inability to understand an answer is clearly equal to your inability to write a cogent sentence.AmpfieldAndy said:
Those who profess they know it all seldom do in my experience.Nigel_Foremain said:
I would like to respond to you properly, but your first sentence is not understandable, but try I must! I do fully understand why Leave won, and I know a good deal about One Nation Conservatism as it is a belief set I have followed for about 30 years as a voter, and also one time senior Conservative Party activist. I am quite comfortable in my comprehension of both subjects, thank you.AmpfieldAndy said:
I suspect you don’t much about either one nation conservatives or why Leave won if you think that.Nigel_Foremain said:
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
When did he become 'Govey' ?
Is this some mistaken attempt to humanise him ?0 -
If May is gone it may well be because Corbyn is now PM and pursuing BINO propped up by the SNP.IanB2 said:
Depends on where we are. If we have already left, with or without a deal, it won't matter has much.HYUFD said:Gove had an impressive performance in the Commons before the VONC vote but he needs to improve his polling to avoid being a gift to Corbyn.
It is also hard to see the Tory membership not electing a No Dealer if and when May goes
In which case Tory members would want to ensure the new Tory leader of the Opposition pursues a 'Leave means Leave' line0 -
Yup, also you have to look at what the other member states want, since it looks like Take Back Control is somehow going to end up with Britain begging the EU for an extension. If they'll only extend for a referendum or a GE, and the PM thinks she'd lose her job if she calls a GE, it has to be a referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The impasse has to be resolved somehow. Throwing the decision back to the people is potentially the least fraught. It would be an admission of defeat, of course, but the politicians look defeated just now.kinabalu said:Betting post!
The odds for another referendum on betfair are 15/8. That's a 33% chance. 1 in 3.
Now setting aside all of the arguments about whether it would be a good or a bad idea - the correct answer is bad - what do we make of these odds? BTW it has to be one with Remain as an option to count for this market, and it has to take place this year.
Think of the obstacles. PM resolutely opposed. LOTO resolutely opposed. Less parliamentary backing amongst MPs than for almost any other feasible course of action bar a No Deal crash out. The time it would take to legislate for and arrange. The bun fight over the question and the formulation.
And then forget all of that, the details, and simply consider it as a prospect. We all remember the 2016 one like it was yesterday. How it galvanized and captured the country. The commitment it took. The energy. The sense of participating in something massive and historic and one time. The gravity and import of that terrible result as it sunk in.
I ask you, can we really envisage going through that again this year?
Really?
I certainly can't. It remains a possible technique that could be used to break a parliamentary impasse - so I am not going to rule it out - but I submit that it is no way a 1 in 3 chance. It is a 1 in 5 chance at absolute best.
EU referendum in 2019 - a bad kisser but a great lay.
Given the complete absence of a consensus for anything else, it still looks to me more likely than not.0 -
He has managed to master the skill described in the maxim, "fool some of the people all of the time", as there is a poster on here who thinks he is a One Nation Conservative. I'd love to tell that one to Ken ClarkeSouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Given Jezza didn't even read all of the WA, it is surprising? The most important potential deal in the recent history of this country and Jezza didn't even bother to get through all of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:This PMQ's demonstrates TM's knowledge of the subject and Corbyn's lack of understanding of various technical issues.
0 -
Raab is not the future for the party. He really is poorBeverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Presumably referring to this:Nigelb said:When did he become 'Govey' ?
Is this some mistaken attempt to humanise him ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05tj2cc
But yeah, humanising him is a tall order, even for the turd-polishers of PR....0 -
Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
0 -
He probably is. That is terrible truth facing the Conservative party. It is deeply divided, bereft of ideas and only kept alive by the worst opposition in the history of Parliamentary democracy.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
0 -
The EU and Poland have really put Ireland into panic modeRichard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html0 -
theyve known it for agesRichard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
they just didnt think the UK wouldnt be able to agree a deal
and since they have effectively done next to no planning theyre now bricking it
as I said back in September there is time to bank your gains and move on, Leo kept playing doubles or quits.0 -
The flat rate scheme is generally being phased out and it was never really simple anyway (at least in putting it in place although it did of course simplify your VAT returns from then on)Richard_Nabavi said:
Something like your idea already exists for VAT - the 'flat rate' scheme:El_Capitano said:My pet theory on this is that the way to simplify it is to start with opt-in "tax plans".
A bit like your mobile phone plan. You sign up for a tariff: say, the "sole-trader limited company plan". That is your complete set of tax rules. No exceptions. You lose a little in flexibility and therefore end up paying a bit more, but the saving in simplicity and paying an accountant is worth it.
Eventually, when enough people have opted in, you can start to chip away at the tax code.
But it's just a pet theory and my exposure to tax is limited to screaming at HMRC every time I have to do any sort of tax return, so meh.
https://www.rawlinsons.co.uk/resource/vat-flat-rate-scheme/
There were so many different categories of trader/business, all with different rates and HMRC were useless in helping with which you should be in except to say if you chose the wrong one (or at least one that was too low a tax rate) then you would be done for it.
I suspect the idea was to push honest businesses towards choosing a higher rate just in case.0 -
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand0 -
He is the Labour equivalent to David Davis. Too stupid to understand it and too lazy to even try.FrancisUrquhart said:
Given Jezza didn't even read all of the WA, it is surprising? The most important potential deal in the recent history of this country and Jezza didn't even bother to get through all of it.Big_G_NorthWales said:This PMQ's demonstrates TM's knowledge of the subject and Corbyn's lack of understanding of various technical issues.
0 -
I would say that his greatest ability is to be totally unknown. Until he was appointed Brexit Minister I had never even seen a picture of him. His catapulting into DexEU merely gave him an opportunity to show how ill-informed and lacklustre he was on his brief.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Raab is not the future for the party. He really is poorBeverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
If they were rash enough to appoint him PM, I suspect that, after 6 months, we would be viewing Theresa May as a politician of towering ability and penetrating vision in comparison to Mr Raab.0 -
Marina Hyde is one of the sharpest writers of our times.SouthamObserver said:Nick Timothy represents perfectly the way in which the elite in this country reward serial incompetence. Once on board the establishment gravy train it is almost impossibel to fall-off ...
Apart from the rude ones, there is only one word for the fact that Theresa May’s former chief of staff Nick Timothy has been made a board member of the organising committee of the 2022 Commonwealth Games in Birmingham. Inevitable. This is simply how stuff works. I’m only sorry our denuded empire means Nick can’t be given an Indian province or something. Or at least a go on Malaya.
The ways Timothy’s latest appointment were inevitable are many and various, and we’ll come to them shortly. But we must begin with a recap of how we got here. Because, of course, Nick wasn’t always the crayonner of red lines, the taxer of dementia, the shitter of the electoral bed. And, in one potential timeline, the parliamentary-maths-destroyer that ends up causing no-deal Brexit.
Brilliant stuff.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/jan/23/nick-timothy-commonwealth-games-birmingham-2022-theresa-may0 -
That's certainly true of the leading personalities though a few backbenchers are showing mor potential. I have never previously rated Yvette Cooper but her performance in recent months has been impressive. And then of course we have Dominic Grieve, who comes across as rational and genuinely trying to find a way out of the dead end his leader has dragged the country into.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Sad, but trueSouthamObserver said:
He probably is. That is terrible truth facing the Conservative party. It is deeply divided, bereft of ideas and only kept alive by the worst opposition in the history of Parliamentary democracy.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
I joined in the last year, specifically to vote against Johnson if necessary. I have now expanded my self-imposed "brief" to include anyone who thinks No Deal is a target to be aimed for.rottenborough said:
I'm not a member, but from outside it looks to me as if Tory members have hardened considerably over Brexit since Cameron's election and now want an out and out Leaver ultra at any price.kinabalu said:
Well David Cameron had a very punchable face - that sleek and well fed 'born to rule' visage was just made for it - but he romped home with the members due to his quality as a candidate.MarqueeMark said:When the members do finally get a choice, they will probably be thinking "oh crap...." In that case, the one who they would least like to punch in the face will get their vote.
Under most every scenario, that rules out Gove.
He was up against a formidable opponent too. OK, David Davis has become something of a comical figure now but back then, in the prime of life and fizzing with energy and ideas, he was quite something.
So Gove versus, say, Hancock? Or even against Gauke?
Nolo contendere IMHO.
Happy to be corrected.0 -
I can't help feeling it's skin deep with Raab. He'd have been better off turning down the BrexSec job and looking like 'someone you could take to meet your mother' on the backbenches. But his short tenure and the daftness over Dover's importance make it easy to question how much of a heavyweight he could be. I'd have placed him higher a year ago, or maybe the day after he became BrexSec.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
Conversely, I can see exactly why Gove's closing of the confidence debate will have pushed him up the table. A lot will have thought "yup.. I've missed that in a Tory leader for a while now".
People like Hunt and Rudd will continue to be in the mix.. but the former has probably stayed too quiet on Brexit and Rudd the reverse (though her stock could rise once it's over and her Remainism matters less.. if she manages to fix UC)0 -
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
0 -
This is why I occasionally refer to Sir Richard Mottram's most famous quoteIanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
0 -
Take back control has all the appeal now of saying "no go ahead, you drive Philip"edmundintokyo said:
Yup, also you have to look at what the other member states want, since it looks like Take Back Control is somehow going to end up with Britain begging the EU for an extension. If they'll only extend for a referendum or a GE, and the PM thinks she'd lose her job if she calls a GE, it has to be a referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The impasse has to be resolved somehow. Throwing the decision back to the people is potentially the least fraught. It would be an admission of defeat, of course, but the politicians look defeated just now.kinabalu said:Betting post!
The odds for another referendum on betfair are 15/8. That's a 33% chance. 1 in 3.
Now setting aside all of the arguments about whether it would be a good or a bad idea - the correct answer is bad - what do we make of these odds? BTW it has to be one with Remain as an option to count for this market, and it has to take place this year.
Think of the obstacles. PM resolutely opposed. LOTO resolutely opposed. Less parliamentary backing amongst MPs than for almost any other feasible course of action bar a No Deal crash out. The time it would take to legislate for and arrange. The bun fight over the question and the formulation.
And then forget all of that, the details, and simply consider it as a prospect. We all remember the 2016 one like it was yesterday. How it galvanized and captured the country. The commitment it took. The energy. The sense of participating in something massive and historic and one time. The gravity and import of that terrible result as it sunk in.
I ask you, can we really envisage going through that again this year?
Really?
I certainly can't. It remains a possible technique that could be used to break a parliamentary impasse - so I am not going to rule it out - but I submit that it is no way a 1 in 3 chance. It is a 1 in 5 chance at absolute best.
EU referendum in 2019 - a bad kisser but a great lay.
Given the complete absence of a consensus for anything else, it still looks to me more likely than not.0 -
Grieve is clearly a genius but someone better kept in the back room; political leader he is not.anothernick said:
That's certainly true of the leading personalities though a few backbenchers are showing mor potential. I have never previously rated Yvette Cooper but her performance in recent months has been impressive. And then of course we have Dominic Grieve, who comes across as rational and genuinely trying to find a way out of the dead end his leader has dragged the country into.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
Cooper had her chance in Labour's leadership election but wasn't able to offer a single idea or proposal that captured anyone's imagination. Her USP remains simply that she is more sensible than most of her colleagues. Which is a very low bar to cross.0 -
I think it was the UK that did that in June 2016.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU and Poland have really put Ireland into panic modeRichard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
0 -
That was Arnie:_Anazina_ said:
Any fule kno that his street name is The GovernatorNigelb said:When did he become 'Govey' ?
Is this some mistaken attempt to humanise him ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Governator0 -
Her affair with Piers Morgan however blots her judgement copybook forever.OblitusSumMe said:
Marina Hyde is one of the sharpest writers of our times.SouthamObserver said:Nick Timothy represents perfectly the way in which the elite in this country reward serial incompetence. Once on board the establishment gravy train it is almost impossibel to fall-off ...
Apart from the rude ones, there is only one word for the fact that Theresa May’s former chief of staff Nick Timothy has been made a board member of the organising committee of the 2022 Commonwealth Games in Birmingham. Inevitable. This is simply how stuff works. I’m only sorry our denuded empire means Nick can’t be given an Indian province or something. Or at least a go on Malaya.
The ways Timothy’s latest appointment were inevitable are many and various, and we’ll come to them shortly. But we must begin with a recap of how we got here. Because, of course, Nick wasn’t always the crayonner of red lines, the taxer of dementia, the shitter of the electoral bed. And, in one potential timeline, the parliamentary-maths-destroyer that ends up causing no-deal Brexit.
Brilliant stuff.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/jan/23/nick-timothy-commonwealth-games-birmingham-2022-theresa-may0 -
Grieve wants to stop Brexit not genuinely find a compromiseanothernick said:
That's certainly true of the leading personalities though a few backbenchers are showing mor potential. I have never previously rated Yvette Cooper but her performance in recent months has been impressive. And then of course we have Dominic Grieve, who comes across as rational and genuinely trying to find a way out of the dead end his leader has dragged the country into.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
Yes it was one of your NY predictions IIRC. A 'more likely than not' assessment means the 15/8 which I think is way too short you think is way too long! We could cut out BF and have the most ENORMOUS bet if we knew each other.AlastairMeeks said:The impasse has to be resolved somehow. Throwing the decision back to the people is potentially the least fraught. It would be an admission of defeat, of course, but the politicians look defeated just now.
Given the complete absence of a consensus for anything else, it still looks to me more likely than not.
Be like a poker game where we're both sitting pretty with a full house - both of us ultra confident - the pot going sky high and then some.
That is when title deeds to houses get tossed into the middle and somebody ends up drawing a pistol.0 -
Harris, if nominated, will be a geographical curiosity:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/426526-kamala-harris-faces-democrats-rocky-mountain-divide
(Gary Hart would have made an excellent president, I think.)0 -
I see where you are going with this but I think you are wrong in your conclusionNigel_Foremain said:FPT:
"Democracy" keeps being mentioned by posters such as Mr. Tyndall. The slight problem is that trying to nail the democracy jelly to the wall is somewhat problematic. There are many different interpretations of what it means. Communists have a very different interpretation from those in liberal western "democracies".
Our own democracy is highly flawed. We have an hereditary Head of State. We have an unelected upper chamber in parliament. However, it largely works, mainly because it is founded on the basis of law, with a distinct separation of powers between the judiciary (remember those traitors of The People!) and the legislature. The executive is unfortunately too heavily entwined with the legislature in my opinion, but that is another matter.
So what of Brexit? Is what is happening democratic or undemocratic? My own reading, which I accept is not entirely impartial is that parliament is doing its job to some extent. We have a representative democracy based on delegated responsibility to MPs. The electorate chose Brexit by a small margin. It then decided, in its collective wisdom to give us a hung parliament, rather than overwhelming power to Mrs May, who, at the time of the election at least, very much gave the impression of being a convert to Brexit as a concept. So there we have it, the people decided, but they them decided to make it difficult. As Churchill might have said "The people have spoken, the bastards... but they don't seem to know what they want"
I think the people want to leave (they voted for it) but they would prefer a soft Brexit (the election result)
Beyond that it is up to the executive.
Now you can debate whether May’s deal is hard/soft/best/only but it’s realistically the only game in town at this point that doesn’t breach either of those instructions from the voters.0 -
Whatever the outcome is, it's going to be a bunch of people winning and a bunch of people losing, not a compromise.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Grieve wants to stop Brexit not genuinely find a compromiseanothernick said:
That's certainly true of the leading personalities though a few backbenchers are showing mor potential. I have never previously rated Yvette Cooper but her performance in recent months has been impressive. And then of course we have Dominic Grieve, who comes across as rational and genuinely trying to find a way out of the dead end his leader has dragged the country into.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.0 -
0
-
I think, like Rudd, they're too Remainly to be in contention until after a relatively settled position - or handbrake turn - is reached on Brexit. (I suspect Grieve may remain so for being a bit too "Tory-looking", however able he undoubtedly is).anothernick said:
That's certainly true of the leading personalities though a few backbenchers are showing mor potential. I have never previously rated Yvette Cooper but her performance in recent months has been impressive. And then of course we have Dominic Grieve, who comes across as rational and genuinely trying to find a way out of the dead end his leader has dragged the country into.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
But I'd agree on Cooper.. definitely a moderate leader in waiting when Labour decides it's ready for one (and would sweep away the impression that the current setup is actually a bit too blokey* too)
(*/rampantly mysoginistic depending on your POV)0 -
Sorry, but I can't agree with this. I see myself as a One Nation Conservative who voted Leave, reluctantly, as I felt that the EU's direction of travel was clear and long term we would be better off out of it. Not every Leave voter is a fanatic, and I don't see that you can put Raab in the same box as JRM etc based purely on his public utterances on the subject.Nigel_Foremain said:
One Nation Conservatives do not believe in Brexit. Brexit is divisive, and is built on prejudice and dogma. One Nation Conservatives are now a minority in parliament and the membership, but Raab is definitely not one. He is just someone who believes in the madness known as Brexit, but is not quite as deluded or stupid as many of the others.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
That said, his recent comments on Dover were deeply worrying, regardless of whatever context was missed during the reporting.0 -
The answer to all of this is to accept TM WDA and seek a three month extension to do the parliamentary bit
We could be breathing a sigh of relief in the next few weeks and move onto the domestic agenda
Let us hope common sense prevails0 -
-
If you define rational as frustrating Brexit, going against the manifesto completely and trying to undermine and reverse the last referendum then yes absolutely.anothernick said:
That's certainly true of the leading personalities though a few backbenchers are showing mor potential. I have never previously rated Yvette Cooper but her performance in recent months has been impressive. And then of course we have Dominic Grieve, who comes across as rational and genuinely trying to find a way out of the dead end his leader has dragged the country into.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
He's a hardline Remainer who is no better than one of John Major's "bastards".0 -
...and outgoing.Scott_P said:Resignations incoming...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/10880609886188789760 -
What percentage of non-payroll MPs agree with that?Big_G_NorthWales said:The answer to all of this is to accept TM WDA and seek a three month extension to do the parliamentary bit
We could be breathing a sigh of relief in the next few weeks and move onto the domestic agenda
Let us hope common sense prevails0 -
Quite obviously anyone with an ounce of rationality would want Brexit consigned to the dustbin of dumb ideas as soon as possible.Philip_Thompson said:
If you define rational as frustrating Brexit, going against the manifesto completely and trying to undermine and reverse the last referendum then yes absolutely.anothernick said:
That's certainly true of the leading personalities though a few backbenchers are showing mor potential. I have never previously rated Yvette Cooper but her performance in recent months has been impressive. And then of course we have Dominic Grieve, who comes across as rational and genuinely trying to find a way out of the dead end his leader has dragged the country into.IanB2 said:
Where in any party is there a leading person who is significantly better? Sadly.Beverley_C said:
If Raab is the pinnacle of Tory ability, you can see why the Conservatives are in big trouble.SouthamObserver said:
Now that Raab has discovered that Britain is an island off the coast of France the sky is the limit for him.AmpfieldAndy said:Raab is the pick of that bunch. None has a distinguished record in office but Gove and Johnson only have loyalty to themselves. Gove, like May and Rudd, shows very little conservatism at all. Javid and Hunt are straw men who blow with the wind; Davis has let his chances slip and Rudd is simply clueless - an unthinking automaton like her role model May.
Raab is a proper one nation conservative who believes in Brexit.
It’s there is a leadership election soon, no one outside the Cabinet will get a look in which is a shame. MPs like Cleverly, Mercer and Sunak have plenty of potential. Good to see JRM not figuring though.
He's a hardline Remainer who is no better than one of John Major's "bastards".0 -
Imagine that you are an ERG MP who voted against the deal last week. At what point do you start wondering how big a mistake you made?Scott_P said:
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.0 -
Brenda is on standby...IanB2 said:
...and outgoing.Scott_P said:Resignations incoming...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/10880609886188789760 -
I hope the ERG see sense before they lose it allPhilip_Thompson said:
What percentage of non-payroll MPs agree with that?Big_G_NorthWales said:The answer to all of this is to accept TM WDA and seek a three month extension to do the parliamentary bit
We could be breathing a sigh of relief in the next few weeks and move onto the domestic agenda
Let us hope common sense prevails0 -
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
There's no doubt they are now wondering. The mystery is why they didn't realise from the outset that the goal was to leave the EU in March and worry about the destination afterwards.AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine that you are an ERG MP who voted against the deal last week. At what point do you start wondering how big a mistake you made?Scott_P said:
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.0 -
Right nowAlastairMeeks said:
Imagine that you are an ERG MP who voted against the deal last week. At what point do you start wondering how big a mistake you made?Scott_P said:
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.0 -
#ComicalMarkMarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
Probably a split in the Tory Party too. It’s only fear of a Corbyn Gov holding it together now.Scott_P said:Resignations incoming...
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/10880609886188789760 -
0
-
Only reasonable to assume if you had not actually checked who held all the cards and relied on Tory sound bites on the matter.MarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
Amen to that.Charles said:
I see where you are going with this but I think you are wrong in your conclusionNigel_Foremain said:FPT:
"Democracy" keeps being mentioned by posters such as Mr. Tyndall. The slight problem is that trying to nail the democracy jelly to the wall is somewhat problematic. There are many different interpretations of what it means. Communists have a very different interpretation from those in liberal western "democracies".
Our own democracy is highly flawed. We have an hereditary Head of State. We have an unelected upper chamber in parliament. However, it largely works, mainly because it is founded on the basis of law, with a distinct separation of powers between the judiciary (remember those traitors of The People!) and the legislature. The executive is unfortunately too heavily entwined with the legislature in my opinion, but that is another matter.
So what of Brexit? Is what is happening democratic or undemocratic? My own reading, which I accept is not entirely impartial is that parliament is doing its job to some extent. We have a representative democracy based on delegated responsibility to MPs. The electorate chose Brexit by a small margin. It then decided, in its collective wisdom to give us a hung parliament, rather than overwhelming power to Mrs May, who, at the time of the election at least, very much gave the impression of being a convert to Brexit as a concept. So there we have it, the people decided, but they them decided to make it difficult. As Churchill might have said "The people have spoken, the bastards... but they don't seem to know what they want"
I think the people want to leave (they voted for it) but they would prefer a soft Brexit (the election result)
Beyond that it is up to the executive.
Now you can debate whether May’s deal is hard/soft/best/only but it’s realistically the only game in town at this point that doesn’t breach either of those instructions from the voters.
Except as a matter of law now, it is up to Parliament, not just the executive.0 -
If the Irish see sense then we can have a deal we accept. The Poles are coming around, the EU is [at a glacial pace] beginning to turn. The Germans who see Ireland as some sort of partitioned Berlin and Irish need to see the whites in our eyes and realise we are serious and then a deal is reachable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I hope the ERG see sense before they lose it allPhilip_Thompson said:
What percentage of non-payroll MPs agree with that?Big_G_NorthWales said:The answer to all of this is to accept TM WDA and seek a three month extension to do the parliamentary bit
We could be breathing a sigh of relief in the next few weeks and move onto the domestic agenda
Let us hope common sense prevails
In that sense the ERG are seeing sense. So long as Parliament doesn't throw it all away first just as we're starting to see movement.0 -
The optics of paying him €50m while closing branches would not have been good...Cyclefree said:Anyway, I see that Santander is closing 140 branches. I suspect this is why it had that bust up last week with the CEO, Orcel, it was hiring - and then not.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-469726320 -
Why would the EU care - if we crash out no-one is going to even whisper about leaving the EU ever again let alone talk about it...MarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
I think the HOC will stop it unless ERG and DUP come on board very quicklyPhilip_Thompson said:
If the Irish see sense then we can have a deal we accept. The Poles are coming around, the EU is [at a glacial pace] beginning to turn. The Germans who see Ireland as some sort of partitioned Berlin and Irish need to see the whites in our eyes and realise we are serious and then a deal is reachable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I hope the ERG see sense before they lose it allPhilip_Thompson said:
What percentage of non-payroll MPs agree with that?Big_G_NorthWales said:The answer to all of this is to accept TM WDA and seek a three month extension to do the parliamentary bit
We could be breathing a sigh of relief in the next few weeks and move onto the domestic agenda
Let us hope common sense prevails
In that sense the ERG are seeing sense. So long as Parliament doesn't throw it all away first just as we're starting to see movement.0 -
Which is why you could never have Brexit negotiated by the House of Commons. Which is what it has become. MPs who don't want any flavour of Brexit getting involved in the minutiae could only have one outcome: clusterfuck.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Irish see sense then we can have a deal we accept. The Poles are coming around, the EU is [at a glacial pace] beginning to turn. The Germans who see Ireland as some sort of partitioned Berlin and Irish need to see the whites in our eyes and realise we are serious and then a deal is reachable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I hope the ERG see sense before they lose it allPhilip_Thompson said:
What percentage of non-payroll MPs agree with that?Big_G_NorthWales said:The answer to all of this is to accept TM WDA and seek a three month extension to do the parliamentary bit
We could be breathing a sigh of relief in the next few weeks and move onto the domestic agenda
Let us hope common sense prevails
In that sense the ERG are seeing sense. So long as Parliament doesn't throw it all away first just as we're starting to see movement.0 -
Dumb.... and Dumberer.MarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.
0 -
Just so sad that I never saw our country's destiny being to become the Luddites of the 21st century.eek said:
Why would the EU care - if we crash out no-one is going to even whisper about leaving the EU ever again let alone talk about it...MarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
Tusk....and Barnier?Nigelb said:
Dumb.... and Dumberer.MarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
Though strangely it has been those most committed to Brexit who has been the most obstreperous when it comes to the details.MarqueeMark said:
Which is why you could never have Brexit negotiated by the House of Commons. Which is what it has become. MPs who don't want any flavour of Brexit getting involved in the minutiae could only have one outcome: clusterfuck.Philip_Thompson said:
If the Irish see sense then we can have a deal we accept. The Poles are coming around, the EU is [at a glacial pace] beginning to turn. The Germans who see Ireland as some sort of partitioned Berlin and Irish need to see the whites in our eyes and realise we are serious and then a deal is reachable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I hope the ERG see sense before they lose it allPhilip_Thompson said:
What percentage of non-payroll MPs agree with that?Big_G_NorthWales said:The answer to all of this is to accept TM WDA and seek a three month extension to do the parliamentary bit
We could be breathing a sigh of relief in the next few weeks and move onto the domestic agenda
Let us hope common sense prevails
In that sense the ERG are seeing sense. So long as Parliament doesn't throw it all away first just as we're starting to see movement.0 -
The EU - and us.MarqueeMark said:
Tusk....and Barnier?Nigelb said:
Dumb.... and Dumberer.MarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
Possibly, but I’m not convinced. When the EU doesn’t get their £ 39bn and the wrangles start between contributor nations and recipient nations, life in the EU might not seem so rosy.eek said:
Why would the EU care - if we crash out no-one is going to even whisper about leaving the EU ever again let alone talk about it...MarqueeMark said:
It might have a been a reasonble ssumption that the EU would not let us crash out.hamiltonace said:
It might have been a reasonable assumption that the UK Government would not be so stupid to crash out and the betting markets seem to agree. Can we really been watching a slow motion train crash where the UK and the Tory party are about to split up?MarqueeMark said:
"[Varadkar] insisted the backstop is still alive, saying: “We cannot give it up in return for a promise that it will be all right on the night.”Richard_Nabavi said:Can it really be true that the Irish government, and the Irish commentariat, have only just realised that a no-deal Brexit means border checks?
https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/eu-now-looks-set-to-ask-ireland-to-accept-concessions-37739911.html
Forget the night - you're gonna be stuffed by lunchtime, Leo....
#OverPlayingYourHand
There doesn't seem to be any evidence of that EU Stooopid Mountain getting any less.0 -
He really is not a 'Govey'. Not keen on the 'Gover' either, Boris Johnson's moniker for him.Nigelb said:When did he become 'Govey' ?
Is this some mistaken attempt to humanise him ?
Can we do anything with his first name? Obviously not Mick or any variation of that. But Mike Gove? ... or even Mikey Gove?
Hmm, it worked for Michael Corleone, but it doesn't here. It sounds silly.
No, let's not waste any more time on this. He's the Environment Secretary, he's the next leader of the Conservative Party, and his name is Michael Gove.0
