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The government has shot itself in the foot with this approach.TheScreamingEagles said:Leadsom just skewered Bercow, again.
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Disruption to trade between Britain and the EU due to Brexit would not have 'virtually nothing' to do with a recession. A larger cause could well be Trump's trade war.Casino_Royale said:
It will certainly be blamed on Brexit, even though I think that will have virtually nothing to do with it if the deal passes and the transition period kicks in.Jonathan said:
Indeed. I hope you're wrong too. The Brexit recession*.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, all the warning signs are there this year (stock markets, trade figures over Christmas) of a fairly imminent global recession.
I hope I’m wrong.
(*The Global Economic crisis of 2008, was often viewed through a national lens with some unscrupulous people blaming the govt for the whole thing)
If we crash out to No Deal, it could justifiably be blamed on Brexit.
All in all Farage, who helped bring us both Brexit and Trump, would have a lot to answer for.0 -
Very politely, Bercow went quite pink......and is providing a non-answer, non answer.TheScreamingEagles said:Leadsom just skewered Bercow, again.
Which she's followed up.0 -
Bercow looks very very uncomfortable.AlastairMeeks said:
The government has shot itself in the foot with this approach.TheScreamingEagles said:Leadsom just skewered Bercow, again.
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Is there not time for that to be revisited?TheScreamingEagles said:
He said he tried to do what Grieve did but was told by the Clerks Office it wasn't possible.Morris_Dancer said:How did Bone stuff Bercow, if stuffed he be?
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Bercow is definitely not in trouble
The Government most certainly is.
With regards to the Leader of the House.
"Stupid Woman"she is now in favour of publishing advice!!!0 -
Bercow is floundering - he can't justify his decision and is just blustering0
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Government trying to kill a vote. It's not a good look.0
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Bollocks to
BrexitBercow.0 -
Bercow's about to do a Bush v Gore and say his ruling is limited to present circumstances only.0
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Why resort to misogynybigjohnowls said:Bercow is definitely not in trouble
The Government most certainly is.
With regards to the Leader of the House.
"Stupid Woman"she is now in favour of publishing advice!!!0 -
Parliament gets to answer questions of primary legislation, BUT the Gov't gets to ask them.0
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Good on Leadsom, its about time Bercow's hypocrisy was exposed0
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So is the government going to be publishing the advice it received then?Fenster said:
Bercow looks very very uncomfortable.AlastairMeeks said:
The government has shot itself in the foot with this approach.TheScreamingEagles said:Leadsom just skewered Bercow, again.
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If I understand it, no, the amendments need to be presented before today's sitting.tlg86 said:
Is there not time for that to be revisited?TheScreamingEagles said:
He said he tried to do what Grieve did but was told by the Clerks Office it wasn't possible.Morris_Dancer said:How did Bone stuff Bercow, if stuffed he be?
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Bercows bascially saying. I can do what i want, and you can't stop me...0
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Not cricket.TheScreamingEagles said:
If I understand it, no, the amendments need to be presented before today's sitting.tlg86 said:
Is there not time for that to be revisited?TheScreamingEagles said:
He said he tried to do what Grieve did but was told by the Clerks Office it wasn't possible.Morris_Dancer said:How did Bone stuff Bercow, if stuffed he be?
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And I don't have to do it again if I don't want to.....Slackbladder said:Bercows bascially saying. I can do what i want, and you can't stop me...
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I wish it would. I'm all for transparency.AlastairMeeks said:
So is the government going to be publishing the advice it received then?Fenster said:
Bercow looks very very uncomfortable.AlastairMeeks said:
The government has shot itself in the foot with this approach.TheScreamingEagles said:Leadsom just skewered Bercow, again.
The fact is that if Bone was told an amendment wasn't possible yet Grieve's amend was accepted... if Bercow was privy to that going on then it's naughty.
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Not watching it but from these comments (and notwithstanding my opinion of him as a jumped-up self important sh7t), I say You Go Girlfriend to Bercow.0
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This is just embarrasing. No speaker should ever be in this position
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Bercow is unambiguously in the wrong on this, but it's all pretty irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.0
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Heidi, Sir Christopher, Ken, Dominic all on Chairs side.
Big G TSE and TM against.
Strange0 -
Sure, like Brexit itself, the abstract idea of a #peoplesvote is more popular than the concrete proposal. However it is wrong to depict the concept as unpopular.kinabalu said:
But the % falls drastically when asked if they support any particular one of the various possible formulations of the question(s) for one. None of them gets a majority. Bit like the current parliamentary impasse in that sense.Foxy said:64% of British voterswant a#peoplesvote according to recent polling.
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We are having a vote on the ammendment,
TM needs a plan B by next Friday
Hurrah for Mr Speaker0 -
Bercow has a car sticker 'bo...ocks to brexit' and he is expected to be impartialbigjohnowls said:Heidi, Sir Christopher, Ken, Dominic all on Chairs side.
Big G TSE and TM against.
Strange0 -
Agreed. His authority is utterly gone as he acts in the interests of his supporters alone. A disgrace to a noble and ancient office. This is unprecedented.Big_G_NorthWales said:This is just embarrasing. No speaker should ever be in this position
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And as he says, if precedent were always followed then nothing would change.Concanvasser said:
Agreed. His authority is utterly gone as he acts in the interests of his supporters alone. A disgrace to a noble and ancient office. This is unprecedented.Big_G_NorthWales said:This is just embarrasing. No speaker should ever be in this position
I quite like the fact that Bercow is defending his position - as a non-parliamentary procedural expert I'm loving the near Socratic process that is taking place.
Edit: watching it now.0 -
He's still a bit me me effing me, that said.0
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Only a bit?TOPPING said:He's still a bit me me effing me, that said.
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What Brexit has shown above all else is that we don’t have MPs up to the job of governing Britain. What is urgently needed is reform of how all parties select candidates and how MPs progress once elected. The current system of promotion by patronage is barking mad. Too many MPs want to get paid just for doing as Brussels tells them.
The fact that there are so many competing agendas, some deliberately aimed at thwarting the referendum result, is a sad inditement of the inability of too many MPs to do what they actually claim to be doing - putting the national interest first.0 -
And how will you ensure we're not back into this position in a few years? There are many valid complaints about the EU (and many invalid ones), and these will not go away. In addition, people will be able to claim that their voices were not listened to.Gallowgate said:
The polls show there is no majority for Brexit anymore so the point is mute.JosiasJessop said:
What Putin wants is his opponents weakened. Chaos weakens brilliantly, and hence it's easy to argue that people who are campaigning for chaos by wanting to remain in the EU - against the will of the majority of the public - are being Putin's dupes.Foxy said:
Putin wants to disrupt his opponents via his support of populist nativist movements everywhere, Brexit being one of these.JosiasJessop said:
Firstly, what do you think Putin wants?Gallowgate said:
She might not be on Putin’s side but she’s doing what Putin wants.JosiasJessop said:The next Lib Dem leader ask a question, with a rather nasty sting in the tail.
even if you loathe May, you cannot say she's on Putin's side.
Secondly, she is trying to do what the Great British Public voted for in a legitimate referendum. Putin's interference in that (and personally I think he tried, although I'm unsure if it had a major effect) is essentially irrelevant. What the GBP voted for is what matters - and the real problem lies not with Russian interference, but with leavers' inability to agree.
Discrediting the establishment, and its organs, is a common objective, but May and the Tories are merely Putins dupes rather than active agents. I am not so sure about some of the others.
Hence Moran's comment applies as much to herself as it does May.
And I have yet to hear any person wanting us to remain say how they'll sell the EU to the GBP so we won't just be going through this all again in a few years. Putin will be rubbing his hands in glee over that thought.
Cancel the entire shit show.
Cancelling without a referendum would be bad for democracy, bad for politics, bad for the UK and even bad for the EU. Putin would love that.0 -
JRM really compromising Bercows judgment0
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Good job the EU's negotiators haven't put one-eighth of their business at risk.Alanbrooke said:
no were six months in to a slowdown. Germany is probably already in recession.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, all the warning signs are there this year (stock markets, trade figures over Christmas) of a fairly imminent global recession.
I hope I’m wrong.
Oh.0 -
I know I'm not supposed to say this in the new tolerant, safe space world, but Jacob Rees-Mogg has a very ********* ****.0
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NEW THREAD
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So let me see if I have this right.
The government has a business motion which will result in the MV.
At the time the provision for the MV was made it was expressly said that a Minister could tender an amendment but no one else.
Grieve has proposed an amendment which essentially takes away the timetabling control of the motion from the government, allows MPs to speak twice and gives MPs the chance to determine what we do next.
Precedent says that a back bencher cannot make an amendment to a business motion.
Bercow received advice to that effect from the clerks.
Notwithstanding that Bercow has decided to call the motion on the basis, presumably, that the will of Parliament is being subverted.
He has confirmed, however, that even if the motion were to pass that would not repeal the legislation repealing the European Communities Act.
Is that where we are?
The context of Bercow's decision is presumably the withdrawal of the original MV motion by the PM before Christmas when it became evident that she was facing a heavy defeat. I remember there being a lot of unhappiness about the way that was done at the time.
Is he wrong? Almost certainly on the technicalities but arguably not on the substantive point. Control of the time tabling agenda is May's last weapon and she is abusing it.0 -
They also have an obligation to hand the kingdom on to the next generation in a reasonable state. Ignoring a referendum is no light matter, but implementing it in a chaotic and damaging way would be worse. And given that there is nothing to stop Brexit being postponed for a period, which would mean the referendum result could still be implemented by a future government if that is what the voters want.DavidL said:
Those elected to implement Brexit have an obligation to do so in what they judge the best way possible, whether that is the deal or no deal. Their obligation does not vanish because others are behaving like irresponsible idiots.AlastairMeeks said:
Remain-supporting MPs are under no pressure to accept the deal for as long as the true believers in Leave decisively reject it. Once it is rejected, all bets are legitimately off.DavidL said:
The fundamental problem remains (hah). The only thing that there has ever been a majority in the Commons for is remain. Some of those still gulp at the democratic outrage of ignoring the largest vote in our history but most have rationalised it to themselves by persuading themselves that we didn't know what we were doing, we were misled by a bus, things have changed, no one ever thought no deal was a possibility (really, I mean come on), May's deal is awful and not what was promised, we really should have another go, whatever.kle4 said:
I think you nail it by calling it displacement activity. The actual choices before them and actions needed for those options are not actually complicated but mps on all sides are dancing around those options, delaying, distracting, focusing on peripheral matters.DavidL said:
It's all pretty pointless. We know what core groups want and what three options are possible. Just pick one, stop tweaking and pressuring and on and on and on. They don't even need to wait for the MV for everyone to just be clear what they seek.
Its pathetic and we all know ultimately they are going to prevent Brexit. This rationalisation process is just embarrassing. The damage to our country will be incalculable, far worse than even a no deal Brexit would have caused. But I am beginning to wish that they would just get on with it and stop the whining.0
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