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There's always such a thing as being careful what you wish for.kinabalu said:
As a member of it - that liberal left - I nevertheless agree with your sentiment. I don't want to win ugly. I want to play the beautiful game.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
Oh gosh yes. He was the closest of all. I thought that was him at first.Theuniondivvie said:Bernard Jenkin wasn't bad either.
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Instead of asking yourself how we make this administrative nightmare less unbearable why not go back to basics. What are the advantages of leaving the EU.ralphmalph said:
But at Calais they stop every truck and van and scan them, they can look at the customs declaration at the same time.rottenborough said:
Isn't it the time that is the issue. Few seconds a check - ok. A minute a check - chaos.ralphmalph said:
100% of lorries are stopped and checked at Calais today.rottenborough said:Is this actually up to the Mayor of Calais? Surely it is an EU thing about border and third countries?
https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1082896261693489152
At Dover all vehicles have to arrive minimum 1 hour before departure, drivers sitting around having a cup of tea, etc, It can not be too difficult to check the customs doc at the tea stop, during the time they are already sitting around doing nothing.0 -
Macron -- forget what he is doing or what he said he would do. It's important of course but there is another factor I hear from my French moles. Macron acts like a king. He reeks of self-importance and entitlement. Beware of anecdotes masquerading as data but part of it is not the gilets-jaunes but the sans-culottes: Macron rubs French people up the wrong way.FrancisUrquhart said:
+5 from where...mega unpopular. He isn't going to suddenly become Mr Popular this year, unless he radically just throws in the towel on everything he promised to do.grabcocque said:
Up +5 in the latest polls.FrancisUrquhart said:
Without being funny, you don't have to have any special insight or knowledge to make predictions like Macron will remain unpopular. That's less a prediction and more of a given.Tissue_Price said:Some predictions for 2019 from Matthew Goodwin. Number 10 ("Twitter will become even more unbearable") looks nailed on.
https://unherd.com/2019/01/no-bregets-10-predictions-for-2019/0 -
When you compare yourself to Jupiter, you become a figure of fun.DecrepitJohnL said:
Macron -- forget what he is doing or what he said he would do. It's important of course but there is another factor I hear from my French moles. Macron acts like a king. He reeks of self-importance and entitlement. Beware of anecdotes masquerading as data but part of it is not the gilets-jaunes but the sans-culottes: Macron rubs French people up the wrong way.FrancisUrquhart said:
+5 from where...mega unpopular. He isn't going to suddenly become Mr Popular this year, unless he radically just throws in the towel on everything he promised to do.grabcocque said:
Up +5 in the latest polls.FrancisUrquhart said:
Without being funny, you don't have to have any special insight or knowledge to make predictions like Macron will remain unpopular. That's less a prediction and more of a given.Tissue_Price said:Some predictions for 2019 from Matthew Goodwin. Number 10 ("Twitter will become even more unbearable") looks nailed on.
https://unherd.com/2019/01/no-bregets-10-predictions-for-2019/0 -
Well that speech from the golden room was classic, as was the "call me Mr President" rant to that kid.DecrepitJohnL said:
Macron -- forget what he is doing or what he said he would do. It's important of course but there is another factor I hear from my French moles. Macron acts like a king. He reeks of self-importance and entitlement. Beware of anecdotes masquerading as data but part of it is not the gilets-jaunes but the sans-culottes: Macron rubs French people up the wrong way.FrancisUrquhart said:
+5 from where...mega unpopular. He isn't going to suddenly become Mr Popular this year, unless he radically just throws in the towel on everything he promised to do.grabcocque said:
Up +5 in the latest polls.FrancisUrquhart said:
Without being funny, you don't have to have any special insight or knowledge to make predictions like Macron will remain unpopular. That's less a prediction and more of a given.Tissue_Price said:Some predictions for 2019 from Matthew Goodwin. Number 10 ("Twitter will become even more unbearable") looks nailed on.
https://unherd.com/2019/01/no-bregets-10-predictions-for-2019/0 -
Here's an easy prediction, even though I have no idea what's going to happen on 29th of March, whether there's a Deal, a No Deal crashout, or a referendum or straight revocation:Tissue_Price said:Some predictions for 2019 from Matthew Goodwin. Number 10 ("Twitter will become even more unbearable") looks nailed on.
https://unherd.com/2019/01/no-bregets-10-predictions-for-2019/
Leave voters will feel hugely betrayed.
Easy prediction to make; it happens down every strand of the possibilities.0 -
I dunno, they got 'vaguely toadlike' nailed down.kinabalu said:
Yes Hannan was a spit. So were some of the others. Who wasn't was Gove, zero resemblance other than he wore glasses, and worst of all, Banks. When he appeared I thought it was Robbie Williams.Stark_Dawning said:Watched 'Brexit: The Uncivil War' last night and was very impressed. The actor who played Dan Hannan had his look, bearing and voice off to a T. (I might ask him to come along as a Hannan impersonator for the party I'll be throwing when Article 50 is revoked.)
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The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
BLUE PASSPORTS and racism, as before.Roger said:
Instead of asking yourself how we make this administrative nightmare less unbearable why not go back to basics. What are the advantages of leaving the EU.ralphmalph said:
But at Calais they stop every truck and van and scan them, they can look at the customs declaration at the same time.rottenborough said:
Isn't it the time that is the issue. Few seconds a check - ok. A minute a check - chaos.ralphmalph said:
100% of lorries are stopped and checked at Calais today.rottenborough said:Is this actually up to the Mayor of Calais? Surely it is an EU thing about border and third countries?
https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1082896261693489152
At Dover all vehicles have to arrive minimum 1 hour before departure, drivers sitting around having a cup of tea, etc, It can not be too difficult to check the customs doc at the tea stop, during the time they are already sitting around doing nothing.0 -
It is as if Bercow drives around with a Bollocks to Brexit sticker on his car...Tissue_Price said:0 -
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.0 -
John Bercow is the best speaker since de Montfort.CarlottaVance said:
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@ Alastair Meeks
I find that data astonishing. The short term impacts of No Deal lend themselves to rational analysis. If a sample of bright and well informed individuals (which MPs are) study the matter one would not expect an enormous variance in conclusion. And yet here we have (in essence) Con MPs judging it to be low impact and Lab MPs to be very high. Something is amiss.0 -
https://twitter.com/nmdacosta/status/1082949769927028736grabcocque said:0 -
I just upgraded my love of John Bercow from fangirl to stan.0
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Speaker B making himself the center of attention just in time for PMQ'sCarlottaVance said:
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But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
Labour are supporting the Grieve amendment.0
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Grieve seems to have power than May at the moment.0
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It will be up to the Conservative membership to select parliamentary candidates who are in line with the members' views.stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.0 -
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
You never have to watch the courtship routine of the Lesser Spotted Farage and the Wunderpus photogenicus Juncks.Roger said:
Instead of asking yourself how we make this administrative nightmare less unbearable why not go back to basics. What are the advantages of leaving the EU.ralphmalph said:
But at Calais they stop every truck and van and scan them, they can look at the customs declaration at the same time.rottenborough said:
Isn't it the time that is the issue. Few seconds a check - ok. A minute a check - chaos.ralphmalph said:
100% of lorries are stopped and checked at Calais today.rottenborough said:Is this actually up to the Mayor of Calais? Surely it is an EU thing about border and third countries?
https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1082896261693489152
At Dover all vehicles have to arrive minimum 1 hour before departure, drivers sitting around having a cup of tea, etc, It can not be too difficult to check the customs doc at the tea stop, during the time they are already sitting around doing nothing.0 -
Names like Mr Grieve and Mrs May are straight out of Dickens. Are we absolutely sure this is not some advanced drama, a stunt like the Welles War of the Worlds.0
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The Lib Dems might get lots of support, but so would the anti-EU parties.grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
There was no threat of violence there. If Brexit doesnt happen, you delegitmise our primary democratic institutions, then recourse will be via other ways,stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.
Revoking brexit will not be consequence free. The consequences might be just a vote switch between parties, but the consequence might be that democrats, that we all are on here will seek change via otherways. You create a legitimate grievance.
If in the scottish referendum it had gone 55% to leave the union and then it was decided that everyone was confused and mistaken, not knowing what they voted for, and ignore the result. What do you think would happen?0 -
Not if there is a partial voter boycott by leavers, which I can easily imagine.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems might get lots of support, but so would the anti-EU parties.grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
A reminder that leaving with No Deal (WTO Brexit) is not the end position.
The UK could then negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement in parallel with a Free Trade Agreement.0 -
Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.0 -
One of the most partisan, at any rate.grabcocque said:0 -
"Carnage" = PB explodes, no one else notices.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Dominic Grieve is a Tory.Sean_F said:
One of the most partisan, at any rate.grabcocque said:0 -
lol. you poor deluded fools. There is very little love of the EU in the UK. Our membership was largely transacational, even by remainers. It was not through love, but "its best for us to be in than out".grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.
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EU elections are a free hit. I think Leave voters would be very eager to turn out.grabcocque said:
Not if there is a partial voter boycott by leavers, which I can easily imagine.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems might get lots of support, but so would the anti-EU parties.grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
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Boles is supporting the Grieve amendment.
Looks like Tory Remainia is feeling their oats again.0 -
TOPPING said:
"Carnage" = PB explodes, no one else notices.CarlottaVance said:
A good job someone has scrutiny of the parliamentary process.0 -
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.0 -
How very grown up.CarlottaVance said:It's all kicking off......
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/10829567545000960000 -
Perhaps they will hold an EU wide referendum in 2020.Sean_F said:If we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.
Do you wish to eject the UK from membership of the European Union: YES/NO
That would be interesting. Imagine if it produced a narrow NO but in many places it was a landslide for YES.
Where would that leave us?0 -
Given that I best understand you to be TSE's gardening leave troll alter ego, I expect Mr. Eagles will gladly take you on a metaphorical long drive before taking up his new employment.grabcocque said:I just upgraded my love of John Bercow from fangirl to stan.
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Happier times.Sean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.0 -
Brexit is saved, lads!
One ERG MP suggests he and his colleagues could protest by referring to John Bercow as "Mr Remainer" rather than "Mr Speaker" in the Commons...0 -
paradoxically that could be the biggest hit to the EU in years.Sean_F said:
EU elections are a free hit. I think Leave voters would be very eager to turn out.grabcocque said:
Not if there is a partial voter boycott by leavers, which I can easily imagine.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems might get lots of support, but so would the anti-EU parties.grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
The UKIP brand might have been dragged into the anti-muslim gutter, but I'm sure Farage and other backers will be riding in....Sean_F said:
EU elections are a free hit. I think Leave voters would be very eager to turn out.grabcocque said:
Not if there is a partial voter boycott by leavers, which I can easily imagine.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems might get lots of support, but so would the anti-EU parties.grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
The Leavers woukd surely be the most motivated group in the event of no Brexit ?grabcocque said:
Not if there is a partial voter boycott by leavers, which I can easily imagine.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems might get lots of support, but so would the anti-EU parties.grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
Ah, a return to quiet, impotent normality.Sean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.
A boy can dream.0 -
Mr. Price, bully for Labour.0
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If we leave we will do exactly the same as we realise that we will need to abide by all the same rules without any ability to influence them. Then as political integration results in the EU becoming ever more dominant at our expense we will continue complaining about that as well.Sean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.
There are some people who will blame everything on some bogeyman, the EU being a convenient one, regardless of the facts. The usual description for them is "adolescent" and one generally ignores them until they grow up.0 -
Does not Parliament determine its own processes ?David_Evershed said:
A good job someone has scrutiny of the parliamentary process.TOPPING said:
"Carnage" = PB explodes, no one else notices.CarlottaVance said:
Just because it's unconventional doesn't mean it's not legal...
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/09/underarm-serve-between-legs-seals-bernard-tomic-win-over-nick-kyrgios0 -
I think they would be like the SNP supporters in 2015.David_Evershed said:
The Leavers woukd surely be the most motivated group in the event of no Brexit ?grabcocque said:
Not if there is a partial voter boycott by leavers, which I can easily imagine.Sean_F said:
The Lib Dems might get lots of support, but so would the anti-EU parties.grabcocque said:
The reason why the government is terrified of european elections going ahead is not because they fear a NUKIP surge, but that they fear a massive surge of pro-EU support. Given the polls showing remainers are newly emboldened, and the brexit buccaneers are sulking because reality has fewer unicorns than promised, I could imagine totally the opposite happening. A pro-EU tidal wave across the UK.Sean_F said:
If, we do stay in, we'll form part of the growing awkward squad within the EU, and elect members of the awkward squad to the EU Parliament.0 -
CarlottaVance said:
It's all kicking off......
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1082956754500096000
How pathetic.0 -
If Grieve manages, through procedural alchemy, to transmute the base metal of the deal into the gold of remain they will probably upgrade his Légion d'honneur to the Grand Croix.0
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I think @DavidL had it right when he described the Cooper amendment as 'yet more displacement activity'. It's a way of appearing to do something, whilst avoiding doing what actually needs to be done by MPs: decide whether to support the deal on offer - which is the one and only way of leaving without crashing out in No Deal - or alternatively cancel Brexit altogether, if necessary with a referendum fig-leaf to cover their embarrassment.AlastairMeeks said:
It's a signal, a signal that quite a lot of no-no-dealers didn't join in (presumably because they, like you and me, thought it was pointless) but still passed. What I think they are trying to do is show the Prime Minister that they are unignorable when it comes to her post-defeat options.DavidL said:AIUI Cooper's amendment restricts the ability of the government to make certain tax changes in the event of a no deal Brexit. Of course such tax changes will themselves require legislation which will supersede the amendment (assuming they are passed of course) so the amendment will have no effect.
I am sure it is just me but what was the point of this? If it was to show that there is and always has been a majority for remain in the House of Commons, despite the vast majority of them being elected on manifestos committed to implementing Brexit this is hardly news. If it was to show that this government no longer has a majority for pretty much anything including Finance bills that is hardly news either. If it was to highlight the fact that the Tory party is no longer a functioning or coherent whole capable of providing governance I suppose it had some effect, something the rebels might have reflected upon.
What I think we are actually seeing is yet more displacement activity by virtue signalers who are so sure of their own views. I suppose we have to fill in the unconscionable delays imposed by the PM with something. 5 more days of Brexit debate. What on earth is there still to say? Who on earth do these windbags think is still listening?
Those are the choices. Theresa May, to her great credit, is firmly if perhaps quixotically pursuing one viable option. If MPs don't want to support her, they need to select the only other viable option. At the moment they are simply avoiding the decision, in a flurry of displacement activity and fantasies.0 -
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
You never see me and TSE in the same room, do you?Pro_Rata said:
Given that I best understand you to be TSE's gardening leave troll alter ego, I expect Mr. Eagles will gladly take you on a metaphorical long drive before taking up his new employment.grabcocque said:I just upgraded my love of John Bercow from fangirl to stan.
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I mean it's probably a moot point now, Bercow won't be speaker next Parliament. But it's a good idea.David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
Every time MPs had an opportunity to replace Bercow, they bottled it. Chickens coming home to roost.TOPPING said:
"Carnage" = PB explodes, no one else notices.CarlottaVance said:
But I mean, seriously, how can the speaker allow an amendment which is against the SOs?0 -
not so sure Mr FSean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.
set aside the bluster about pitchforks, but there will then be a real chance of a political realignment. Currently most of Westminster is blindsided by its brexit enfatuation, most votersdont really care that much, they want more money, houses infrastrucutre that works. A common sense party would have a real chance. Plus add in spoiler candidates for prominent leavers\remainers and all bets are off.
0 -
Isnt that a bit like ripping of the sticking plaster and then trying to stick it back on again??David_Evershed said:A reminder that leaving with No Deal (WTO Brexit) is not the end position.
The UK could then negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement in parallel with a Free Trade Agreement.0 -
I know what you mean but (and I get flack for this) Gove is my favourite Conservative politician apart from the national treasure that is Kenneth Clark.BannedInParis said:I dunno, they got 'vaguely toadlike' nailed down.
When MG speaks it's as if he is speaking to me personally. Odd, given that I'm Labour through and through, but there you are.0 -
I like this proposal in general: what happens at a GE? Presumably the incumbent Speaker can be a candidate for St Stephens on the reconvening of Parliament?David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
By all accounts there are only about 60,000 members. Take away those who are there to find good matches for their daughters and those who couldn't care less and you're probably down to the kind of numbers you'd get at a Burton Albion home gameDavid_Evershed said:
It will be up to the Conservative membership to select parliamentary candidates who are in line with the members' views.stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.0 -
The final arbiter on all matters of procedure in the House is the Speaker. And it is, after all, only a convention that the house should not amend business of the house motions. But Bercow clearly feels that allowing the House to express its democratic will against an executive that is doing all in its power to prevent it is more important.Mortimer said:
Every time MPs had an opportunity to replace Bercow, they bottled it. Chickens coming home to roost.TOPPING said:
"Carnage" = PB explodes, no one else notices.CarlottaVance said:
But I mean, seriously, how can the speaker allow an amendment which is against the SOs?
NB, it's also a long-standing convention that a government should resign if they lose an amendment on a finance bill. And yet...0 -
Membership was 124,000 at the end of 2017, but lots of people joined in 2018. My guess would be about 150,000 now.Roger said:
By all accounts there are only about 60,000 members. Take away those who are there to find good matches for their daughters and those who couldn't care less and you're probably down to the kind of numbers you'd get at a Burton Albion home gameDavid_Evershed said:
It will be up to the Conservative membership to select parliamentary candidates who are in line with the members' views.stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.0 -
No, it's not. Governments often lose amendments on finance bills. A famous example was Ken Clark failing to get through an increase in VAT on domestic fuel.grabcocque said:NB, it's also a long-standing convention that a government should resign if they lose an amendment on a finance bill. And yet...
0 -
lol, if only there was some way we could get back all those months we spent debating pastiesRichard_Nabavi said:
No, it's not. Governments often lose amendments on finance bills. A famous example was Ken Clark failing to get through an increase in VAT on domestic fuel.grabcocque said:NB, it's also a long-standing convention that a government should resign if they lose an amendment on a finance bill. And yet...
0 -
Would make the subsequent general election rather interesting.David_Evershed said:
It will be up to the Conservative membership to select parliamentary candidates who are in line with the members' views.stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.0 -
Happy, innocent days!Alanbrooke said:
lol, if only there was some way we could get back all those months we spent debating pastiesRichard_Nabavi said:
No, it's not. Governments often lose amendments on finance bills. A famous example was Ken Clark failing to get through an increase in VAT on domestic fuel.grabcocque said:NB, it's also a long-standing convention that a government should resign if they lose an amendment on a finance bill. And yet...
0 -
I've a couple of very old friends in Bercow's constituency and they really feel disenfranchised. I don't think they're likely to vote Tory, either.David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
grabcocque - more fake news than Donald Trump.0
-
The same Burton Albion that is playing Manchester City in the semi final of the League cup today.Roger said:
By all accounts there are only about 60,000 members. Take away those who are there to find good matches for their daughters and those who couldn't care less and you're probably down to the kind of numbers you'd get at a Burton Albion home gameDavid_Evershed said:
It will be up to the Conservative membership to select parliamentary candidates who are in line with the members' views.stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.0 -
Corbyn to table no confidence motion almost immediately if May loses Brexit vote, Labour says
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/09/brexit-latest-news-debate-pmqs-may-corbyn-grieve-mps-launch-bid-to-ensure-they-vote-on-plan-b-within-three-days-if-mays-deal-defeated-politics-live0 -
That sounds about right to me. Roger knows not of what he speaks wrt the Tory party.Sean_F said:
Membership was 124,000 at the end of 2017, but lots of people joined in 2018. My guess would be about 150,000 now.Roger said:
By all accounts there are only about 60,000 members. Take away those who are there to find good matches for their daughters and those who couldn't care less and you're probably down to the kind of numbers you'd get at a Burton Albion home gameDavid_Evershed said:
It will be up to the Conservative membership to select parliamentary candidates who are in line with the members' views.stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.0 -
A speaker would become the Member for St Stephens on the moment of their election as speaker, vacating their current seat, triggering a by election.Tissue_Price said:
I like this proposal in general: what happens at a GE? Presumably the incumbent Speaker can be a candidate for St Stephens on the reconvening of Parliament?David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:
0 -
Would all of that be a bad thing ?Alanbrooke said:
not so sure Mr FSean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.
set aside the bluster about pitchforks, but there will then be a real chance of a political realignment. Currently most of Westminster is blindsided by its brexit enfatuation, most votersdont really care that much, they want more money, houses infrastrucutre that works. A common sense party would have a real chance. Plus add in spoiler candidates for prominent leavers\remainers and all bets are off.0 -
These days we only got vegan sausage rolls.Richard_Nabavi said:
Happy, innocent days!Alanbrooke said:
lol, if only there was some way we could get back all those months we spent debating pastiesRichard_Nabavi said:
No, it's not. Governments often lose amendments on finance bills. A famous example was Ken Clark failing to get through an increase in VAT on domestic fuel.grabcocque said:NB, it's also a long-standing convention that a government should resign if they lose an amendment on a finance bill. And yet...
0 -
The cult starting to get a bit concerned at Jezza might not want to stop Brexit...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/09/a-lot-of-people-are-angry-bristol-west-locals-say-labour-not-listening-over-brexit0 -
Parliament does indeed determine its own processes and the Speaker is supposed to apply them - though I'm not too sure what the Commons can do if he doesn't.Nigelb said:
Does not Parliament determine its own processes ?David_Evershed said:
A good job someone has scrutiny of the parliamentary process.TOPPING said:
"Carnage" = PB explodes, no one else notices.CarlottaVance said:
Just because it's unconventional doesn't mean it's not legal...
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/09/underarm-serve-between-legs-seals-bernard-tomic-win-over-nick-kyrgios
(Of course, in theory, that means that the Speaker *should* be able to overrule his Clerks, as otherwise it would be they who were in practice sovereign and he just a cipher. Even so, it's not clever to be pushing the boundaries like this).0 -
Fixed for you...Mortimer said:
That sounds about right to me. Roger knows not of what he speaks wrtSean_F said:
Membership was 124,000 at the end of 2017, but lots of people joined in 2018. My guess would be about 150,000 now.Roger said:
By all accounts there are only about 60,000 members. Take away those who are there to find good matches for their daughters and those who couldn't care less and you're probably down to the kind of numbers you'd get at a Burton Albion home gameDavid_Evershed said:
It will be up to the Conservative membership to select parliamentary candidates who are in line with the members' views.stodge said:
There's that undercurrent or threat of "violence". We heard it from HYUFD, now from another Conservative activist.timmo said:Speaking with remain friends over the last few days they sense blood and are starting to become a bit "triumphalist"
If we do remain this will be the danger for UK society as a whole.
The liberal left should be careful what they are wishing for.
I read it as sheer unadulterated fear (not you, Sean).
IF the Government revokes A50, who will the LEAVE side blame? Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservatives pure and simple. The Conservative vote share will collapse and the Party, if it survives at all, risks either being supplanted by a new UKIP-like group or decades in opposition.
If "No Deal" is as bad as some claim, who will get the blame for that - Labour, "the liberal left", no, it will be the Conservative Government and rightly so.
It's clear Conservatives are starting to build the narrative where if anything bad happens or if Brexit is cancelled, it will be someone else's fault, the nasty Europeans, the liberal left, the metropolitan elite.
Thing is, everyone will know whose fault it is.the Tory partyanything except the Oscars.0 -
We have HS2, an Incinerator and now a new motorway and new cities being proposed in the Buckingham constituency but an MP unable to speak or vote on these local issues in parliament.OldKingCole said:
I've a couple of very old friends in Bercow's constituency and they really feel disenfranchised. I don't think they're likely to vote Tory, either.David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
The speaker is the final arbiter on all matters relating to the procedures of the house, and has effectively unlimited power to disapply standing orders as he sees fit.david_herdson said:
Parliament does indeed determine its own processes and the Speaker is supposed to apply them - though I'm not too sure what the Commons can do if he doesn't.
And if the house is unhappy with this state of affairs, it may remove them by move a motion of no confidence in the speaker.
0 -
Does he not have a constituency office and hold surgeries etc? Even the PM has her constituency work. An international conference on climate change on thursday and a damp village hall with a leaky roof on staurday for a surgery with constituents complaining about their neighbourly dispute over a fence.OldKingCole said:
I've a couple of very old friends in Bercow's constituency and they really feel disenfranchised. I don't think they're likely to vote Tory, either.David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
IIRC HG Wells wrote a fantasy about a Common Sense Party. Ended up as a semi fascist dictatorship.Nigelb said:
Would all of that be a bad thing ?Alanbrooke said:
not so sure Mr FSean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.
set aside the bluster about pitchforks, but there will then be a real chance of a political realignment. Currently most of Westminster is blindsided by its brexit enfatuation, most votersdont really care that much, they want more money, houses infrastrucutre that works. A common sense party would have a real chance. Plus add in spoiler candidates for prominent leavers\remainers and all bets are off.0 -
That's fine, but when (if ever?) and how are they up for re-election?grabcocque said:
A speaker would become the Member for St Stephens on the moment of their election as speaker, vacating their current seat, triggering a by election.Tissue_Price said:
I like this proposal in general: what happens at a GE? Presumably the incumbent Speaker can be a candidate for St Stephens on the reconvening of Parliament?David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
It'd be a bloody good thing. Neither of the two main parties are fit for the purpose. The Lib Dems are irrelevant.Nigelb said:
Would all of that be a bad thing ?Alanbrooke said:
not so sure Mr FSean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.
set aside the bluster about pitchforks, but there will then be a real chance of a political realignment. Currently most of Westminster is blindsided by its brexit enfatuation, most votersdont really care that much, they want more money, houses infrastrucutre that works. A common sense party would have a real chance. Plus add in spoiler candidates for prominent leavers\remainers and all bets are off.
We need new and better parties. We could even have niche parties - for people with strong views on chocolate in hot drinks, for instance -
0 -
Which he’ll lose.FrancisUrquhart said:Corbyn to table no confidence motion almost immediately if May loses Brexit vote, Labour says
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/09/brexit-latest-news-debate-pmqs-may-corbyn-grieve-mps-launch-bid-to-ensure-they-vote-on-plan-b-within-three-days-if-mays-deal-defeated-politics-live
The one single thing he could do which cements her authority.
You’ve got to hand it to him, the capacity of that man to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is impressive.0 -
not in the least, its probably overdue. We are have a 70s re run of ineffective government and politicians fascinated by their own concerns and ignoring those of the elctorate. A comprehensive overhaul is needed.Nigelb said:
Would all of that be a bad thing ?Alanbrooke said:
not so sure Mr FSean_F said:
If A50 is revoked, we'll just revert to blaming the EU for our ills, and complaining about continued political integration.Cyclefree said:Well, this is all very exciting and Italian, isn't it. It can't be long before we get fisticuffs inside Parliament and our gilets jaunes outside. Our politics are becoming more and more European even as we leave ... or perhaps not.
Anyway, Ken Clarke, currently one of the few grown ups in Parliament, has said the only thing that matters. If Parliament doesn't want a No Deal departure then it has to revoke Article 50 or vote for the Deal. Since it doesn't want the latter, it has only one choice.
He also said that the point of revoking Article 50 would be to give Britain time to come to a settled and considered view as to what it wanted to do next. Which was rather sweet. I will likely be in my grave before that happens.
All the rest is flim flam.
set aside the bluster about pitchforks, but there will then be a real chance of a political realignment. Currently most of Westminster is blindsided by its brexit enfatuation, most votersdont really care that much, they want more money, houses infrastrucutre that works. A common sense party would have a real chance. Plus add in spoiler candidates for prominent leavers\remainers and all bets are off.0 -
Given Bercow has said he'll go this summer then standby for the Buckingham by-electionDavid_Evershed said:
We have HS2, an Incinerator and now a new motorway and new cities being proposed in the Buckingham constituency but an MP unable to speak or vote on these local issues in parliament.OldKingCole said:
I've a couple of very old friends in Bercow's constituency and they really feel disenfranchised. I don't think they're likely to vote Tory, either.David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbyn to table no confidence motion almost immediately if May loses Brexit vote, Labour says
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/09/brexit-latest-news-debate-pmqs-may-corbyn-grieve-mps-launch-bid-to-ensure-they-vote-on-plan-b-within-three-days-if-mays-deal-defeated-politics-live
Why the need for the word "almost"?0 -
But nothing stops him writing letters, speaking to ministers and negotiating with developers. The vast bulk of MP authority is that soft power and influence.David_Evershed said:
We have HS2, an Incinerator and now a new motorway and new cities being proposed in the Buckingham constituency but an MP unable to speak or vote on these local issues in parliament.OldKingCole said:
I've a couple of very old friends in Bercow's constituency and they really feel disenfranchised. I don't think they're likely to vote Tory, either.David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
If you believe he actually will go. I remain unconvinced.MikeSmithson said:
Given Bercow has said he'll go this summer then standby for the Buckingham by-electionDavid_Evershed said:
We have HS2, an Incinerator and now a new motorway and new cities being proposed in the Buckingham constituency but an MP unable to speak or vote on these local issues in parliament.OldKingCole said:
I've a couple of very old friends in Bercow's constituency and they really feel disenfranchised. I don't think they're likely to vote Tory, either.David_Evershed said:
And Bercow continues to support the current Speaker system and is against the alternative proposal for a St Stephens MP arrangement where once elected as Speaker they become the MPs MP and a by-election held in the Speaker's former constituency.grabcocque said:
Honestly we should have a ficititious constituency for the Speaker to represent, so when an MP becomes speaker, that seat could elect a new MP. Speakers can never meaningfully represent their constituents, and that's a shame.David_Evershed said:
But the least effective constituency MP.grabcocque said:0 -
Why is that snatching defeat? May is doing a really rather nice job for Corbyn as Tory leader. If she stays longer, he wins. If if he gets a GE, he wins. Either way the thing he doesn't want, an effective Tory leader. is further away.Mortimer said:
Which he’ll lose.FrancisUrquhart said:Corbyn to table no confidence motion almost immediately if May loses Brexit vote, Labour says
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/09/brexit-latest-news-debate-pmqs-may-corbyn-grieve-mps-launch-bid-to-ensure-they-vote-on-plan-b-within-three-days-if-mays-deal-defeated-politics-live
The one single thing he could do which cements her authority.
You’ve got to hand it to him, the capacity of that man to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is impressive.0
