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Given May is secure for a year and determined to Brexit in March that is unlikely, it is her Deal or No DealRichard_Nabavi said:
They should, but that means convincing them that we are indeed definitely leaving on March 29th. As we now know, we don't have to, and it's entirely in our gift to revoke. Alternatively, and I think more realistically, we could ask for an extension.Pulpstar said:@Richard_Nabavi If 'No deal' is unthinkable then surely the remainers in parliament will acquiesce to the deal seeing as we're definitely leaving on March 29th.....
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HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
Yes, an inconvenient truth for toxic sycophants like the odious Hunt and his merry men.0 -
Labour's 2017 Brexit policy was almost identical to the Tories and still is in most respectsStereotomy said:
If you voted Tory in 2015 or 2017 or for Leave in the referendum, then you had some part in voting for it.Pulpstar said:Well, I'm relaxed now about 'No deal'. I know I've had no part in voting for it or whatnot so I'm not blaming myself if it all goes wrong
I suspect it might actually be a superior move long term than May's agreement even if there is some short term pain.0 -
What?! Weren't you telling us for months that if her deal failed she'd go for a second referendum?HYUFD said:
Given May is secure for a year and determined to Brexit in March that is unlikely, it is her Deal or No DealRichard_Nabavi said:
They should, but that means convincing them that we are indeed definitely leaving on March 29th. As we now know, we don't have to, and it's entirely in our gift to revoke. Alternatively, and I think more realistically, we could ask for an extension.Pulpstar said:@Richard_Nabavi If 'No deal' is unthinkable then surely the remainers in parliament will acquiesce to the deal seeing as we're definitely leaving on March 29th.....
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Yes, elections such as the mayor of london when postal ballots are tallied separately show that. Boris got a higher % of postal votes in e.g. tower hamlets than he did in votes cast on the day.IanB2 said:tlg86 said:
I got four. The only one that I was confident of knowing the answer was the Euro question - UK, Denmark and Sweden had opt outs, is that right?DavidL said:
That's quite impressive. I got 2 which is pretty much what one might expect on an entirely random basis.Verulamius said:The bank underground blog, https://bankunderground.co.uk, written by staff at the Bank of England, have released their Christmas Quiz.
https://www.quiz-maker.com/QB7AJZV
I only manged 4/10.
In my long experience they lean Tory, as it's still the case that the penetration of PVs is highest amongst the elderly.Xenon said:
The South Yorkshire police commissioner vote was quite eyebrow raising with almost 80% of votes cast by postal ballot.MarqueeMark said:
They'll all be in safe Labour seats anyway.....TheJezziah said:
I imagine it is mainly undesirable groups who will have their democratic rights blocked anyway, no need to kick up too much of a fuss about a small minority.TGOHF said:
"Overall, the voter identification requirements trialled in May 2018 worked well. Nearly everyone in the five pilot scheme areas who went to vote in their polling station was able to show identification without difficulty. The number of people who did not vote because they couldn’t show identification was very small."JosiasJessop said:
Regardless of what the intention of the move is, requiring photo id is a really bad idea IMO.Donny43 said:
The headline assumes what it is trying to prove...NickPalmer said:Interesting but important technical discussion of voting rights:
https://labourlist.org/2018/12/our-2019-battle-stopping-tory-voter-suppression-plans/
Information on the results of the trials:
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/electoral-fraud/voter-identification-pilot-schemes
I truly doubt any Westminster MP sits as an MP due to electoral fraud. The bigger problem is local elections. I can see a better case being made for implementing it there, where a handful of dodgy votes could risk the democratic process being bent all out of whack.
I would be interested to see the breakdown of votes per party of postal votes compared to voting in person.0 -
'Secure' is putting it rather strongly!HYUFD said:
Given May is secure for a year and determined to Brexit in March that is unlikely, it is her Deal or No DealRichard_Nabavi said:
They should, but that means convincing them that we are indeed definitely leaving on March 29th. As we now know, we don't have to, and it's entirely in our gift to revoke. Alternatively, and I think more realistically, we could ask for an extension.Pulpstar said:@Richard_Nabavi If 'No deal' is unthinkable then surely the remainers in parliament will acquiesce to the deal seeing as we're definitely leaving on March 29th.....
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
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Your personal attacks on people seem a bit forced. Can't you just say you disagree with Mr Hunt's politics but he seems like a nice chap to go for a pint with ?Anazina said:HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
Yes, an inconvenient truth for toxic sycophants like the odious Hunt and his merry men.0 -
Nope. You were the one who was weirdly spouting your sanguinity at No Deal. I was surprised at you. Normally you are one of the most sensible PBers. Started the Christmas port too early?Pulpstar said:
Are we into the realm of thought crimes thoughAnazina said:
Clearly you don't work in any cross-border commercial operation, nor have clients on the continent, nor import nor export or source talent from across the EU, nor have any interest or concern for your fellow countrymen who do any or all of these things.Pulpstar said:Well, I'm relaxed now about 'No deal'. I know I've had no part in voting for it or whatnot so I'm not blaming myself if it all goes wrong
I suspect it might actually be a superior move long term than May's agreement even if there is some short term pain.
No deal is an utter disaster. ?0 -
He is a cock.AndyJS said:
What exactly is it that you don't like about Digby Jones?SouthamObserver said:
Digby Jones's great fortune in life is to have been constantly confused with John Harvey Jones, who was a genuinely smart and innovative business leader.Cyclefree said:
I am surprised anyone listens to Digby Jones given his business career. He is lucky to have avoided regulatory action against him, if not worse.SouthamObserver said:Digby Jones encapsulates absolutely everything that is wrong about British business management. Why do we so often struggle in overseas markets? Because there are far too many Digby Jones's sitting on our company boards.
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/10746839873381908480 -
If the government really thinks no deal is better than the alternatives they are being grossly and maliciously irresponsible.tottenhamWC said:
YAnazina said:
Clearly you don't work in any cross-border commercial operation, nor have clients on the continent, nor import nor export or source talent from across the EU, nor have any interest or concern for your fellow countrymen who do any or all of these things.Pulpstar said:Well, I'm relaxed now about 'No deal'. I know I've had no part in voting for it or whatnot so I'm not blaming myself if it all goes wrong
I suspect it might actually be a superior move long term than May's agreement even if there is some short term pain.
No deal is an utter disaster.
I hope so. This Government is being massively irresponsible here in so many ways....HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
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I met Jones several times when he was a Labour Goat in the early noughties. He was a fat, noxious, smug individual then and has seemingly trodden a downward path from there.Cyclefree said:
If I were to repeat what I know about his business career on this forum, M’learned friends would be kept busy. Best to ignore his nonsense.SouthamObserver said:
Digby Jones's great fortune in life is to have been constantly confused with John Harvey Jones, who was a genuinely smart and innovative business leader.Cyclefree said:
I am surprised anyone listens to Digby Jones given his business career. He is lucky to have avoided regulatory action against him, if not worse.SouthamObserver said:Digby Jones encapsulates absolutely everything that is wrong about British business management. Why do we so often struggle in overseas markets? Because there are far too many Digby Jones's sitting on our company boards.
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/10746839873381908480 -
I'd be lying if I said that.TGOHF said:
Your personal attacks on people seem a bit forced. Can't you just say you disagree with Mr Hunt's politics but he seems like a nice chap to go for a pint with ?Anazina said:HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
Yes, an inconvenient truth for toxic sycophants like the odious Hunt and his merry men.0 -
I am honoured.Anazina said:
He voted Remain but has seemingly gone all weird and soft. Probably spent too much time on here, among the likes of Archer, Donny and TGOHF. They say crackpotism rubs off on others.Stereotomy said:
If you voted Tory in 2015 or 2017 or for Leave in the referendum, then you had some part in voting for it.Pulpstar said:Well, I'm relaxed now about 'No deal'. I know I've had no part in voting for it or whatnot so I'm not blaming myself if it all goes wrong
I suspect it might actually be a superior move long term than May's agreement even if there is some short term pain.0 -
'The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure and defenceless to save yourself, and you will have but a half life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.'Richard_Nabavi said:
J K Rowling0 -
Actually he is a nice chap to have a pint with (although it was a glass or two of champagne when I met him).Anazina said:
I'd be lying if I said that.TGOHF said:
Your personal attacks on people seem a bit forced. Can't you just say you disagree with Mr Hunt's politics but he seems like a nice chap to go for a pint with ?Anazina said:HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
Yes, an inconvenient truth for toxic sycophants like the odious Hunt and his merry men.0 -
Well you don't have to say he's an odious goat botherer with ingrowing toenails that smell of Parmesan or whatever. Perhaps try focusing on his policies rather than your worldview that he is an evil follower of satan etc.Anazina said:
I'd be lying if I said that.TGOHF said:
Your personal attacks on people seem a bit forced. Can't you just say you disagree with Mr Hunt's politics but he seems like a nice chap to go for a pint with ?Anazina said:HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
Yes, an inconvenient truth for toxic sycophants like the odious Hunt and his merry men.0 -
They should really have unicorn blood banks. No slaying required.AlastairMeeks said:
'The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure and defenceless to save yourself, and you will have but a half life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.'Richard_Nabavi said:
J K Rowling0 -
It may be a deal-breaker for them. It is a deal-breaker for us too. Therefore there is no deal to be had then so we better adjust to that as well as we can.Richard_Nabavi said:
How long do you think it would take to 'cherrypick the parts of the agreement that are mutually agreeable' and get them approved by 27 countries, even if they were willing in principle, which they're not?Philip_Thompson said:
There is time. You cherrypick the parts of the agreement that are mutually agreeable and agree them. The EU will not like that but oh well. We need to make it clear that we do not like and will NEVER agree to the backstop and they have three choices. They can agree to remove the backstop and replace it with a temporary rather than permanent bodge, they can agree mini deals, or we crash out.
On the backstop, it's a deal-breaker for them. You might not like it, I don't like it, but that's the position. No backstop, no deal, and that also means no mini-deals. I think there might still be a smidgen of room for a further 'clarification', but that is likely to be a bit of a fig-leaf to allow the DUP and other MPs a way out.
Annexing a part of our country is an act of war. They are demanding to economically annex a part of our country, permanently disenfranchising our own citizens and giving us no way out. If someone threatened that with the threat of military force we would call that war.
If we are offering a reasonable alternative to the unreasonable backstop but still no deal can be reached we need to go on a metaphorical war footing. We need to treat it as seriously as war and treat them as our enemies until the threat of annexation has been lifted.0 -
I have always had a great deal of time for David Gauke, since I sort of knew him moons ago when he worked on the Treasury portfolio. He was a rare beast among ministers in that he actually knew his stuff. I remember him taking unrehearsed questions from a large audience of senior accountants and tax advisers and being pretty much spot on every time.Richard_Nabavi said:
To tell the truth, he is wasted working in the circus that is politics these days.0 -
I hadn't realised he was a satanist until you told me.TGOHF said:
Well you don't have to say he's an odious goat botherer with ingrowing toenails that smell of Parmesan or whatever. Perhaps try focusing on his policies rather than your worldview that he is an evil follower of satan etc.Anazina said:
I'd be lying if I said that.TGOHF said:
Your personal attacks on people seem a bit forced. Can't you just say you disagree with Mr Hunt's politics but he seems like a nice chap to go for a pint with ?Anazina said:HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
Yes, an inconvenient truth for toxic sycophants like the odious Hunt and his merry men.0 -
I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/10749836190122393600
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All Tories serve the Dark Lord. And Colonel Saunders.Anazina said:
I hadn't realised he was a satanist until you told me.TGOHF said:
Well you don't have to say he's an odious goat botherer with ingrowing toenails that smell of Parmesan or whatever. Perhaps try focusing on his policies rather than your worldview that he is an evil follower of satan etc.Anazina said:
I'd be lying if I said that.TGOHF said:
Your personal attacks on people seem a bit forced. Can't you just say you disagree with Mr Hunt's politics but he seems like a nice chap to go for a pint with ?Anazina said:HYUFD said:
Thanks to the passage of the Grieve amendment MPs can put forward indicative votes anyway and will do do whatever the Government thinkswilliamglenn said:
Yes, an inconvenient truth for toxic sycophants like the odious Hunt and his merry men.
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Was that back when Boris was the messiah and not the naughty boy?Stereotomy said:
What?! Weren't you telling us for months that if her deal failed she'd go for a second referendum?HYUFD said:
Given May is secure for a year and determined to Brexit in March that is unlikely, it is her Deal or No DealRichard_Nabavi said:
They should, but that means convincing them that we are indeed definitely leaving on March 29th. As we now know, we don't have to, and it's entirely in our gift to revoke. Alternatively, and I think more realistically, we could ask for an extension.Pulpstar said:@Richard_Nabavi If 'No deal' is unthinkable then surely the remainers in parliament will acquiesce to the deal seeing as we're definitely leaving on March 29th.....
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They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.0 -
:-)IanB2 said:I was admiring your skills in producing convoluted arguments to jump through all those hoops and justify the impossible, which Labour might find useful, rather than thinking that you might actually have the answer?
Ah. I see.
And fair enough, because justifying the absurd is indeed a key Brexit skill.
(1) We leave with something that damages the economy and cedes sovereignty.
(2) We leave with nothing and damage the economy so much that who cares about sovereignty.
(3) We call it off and officially label the British people as clueless.
One of the above, believe it or not, is going to take place.0 -
Nah, I've more than done my bit for the remain cause - but there is a definite allure to Brexit... It's like the dark side of the forceAnazina said:
Nope. You were the one who was weirdly spouting your sanguinity at No Deal. I was surprised at you. Normally you are one of the most sensible PBers. Started the Christmas port too early?Pulpstar said:
Are we into the realm of thought crimes thoughAnazina said:
Clearly you don't work in any cross-border commercial operation, nor have clients on the continent, nor import nor export or source talent from across the EU, nor have any interest or concern for your fellow countrymen who do any or all of these things.Pulpstar said:Well, I'm relaxed now about 'No deal'. I know I've had no part in voting for it or whatnot so I'm not blaming myself if it all goes wrong
I suspect it might actually be a superior move long term than May's agreement even if there is some short term pain.
No deal is an utter disaster. ?
It will quickly disappear if my mortgage heads north 0 -
The ultimate Leaver demand? Give us what we want or we will take it from you? By violence if necessary....Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.0 -
The only good thing about politicians starting to think about no-deal planning now, as Mordaunt said she is doing just now on her Portsmouth doorstep, is that the more sensible ones will emerge quite chastened about what would lie ahead in such a scenario.0
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I see the No Deal Arms Race is in rude health.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
The fists and pitchforks have just escalated to heavy artillery and carpet bombs.0 -
If we did that, they’d probably just insist on another backstop for the French land border...Richard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
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It's bad enough that they are mostly idiots but not being able to use the few who aren't is even worse (cue the daily PB plug for Rory...?)Anazina said:
I have always had a great deal of time for David Gauke, since I sort of knew him moons ago when he worked on the Treasury portfolio. He was a rare beast among ministers in that he actually knew his stuff. I remember him taking unrehearsed questions from a large audience of senior accountants and tax advisers and being pretty much spot on every time.Richard_Nabavi said:
To tell the truth, he is wasted working in the circus that is politics these days.0 -
The downside is that we find out if we have any sensible ones in charge. I am beginning to doubt it now that the purges have begun...IanB2 said:The only good thing about politicians starting to think about no-deal planning now, as Mordaunt said she is doing just now on her Portsmouth doorstep, is that the more sensible ones will emerge quite chastened about what would lie ahead in such a scenario.
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I never suggested violence. I suggested we go on a metaphorical war footing in self defence against hostile enemies seeking to economically annex a part of our country. While offering a respectful temporary alternative to this.Beverley_C said:
The ultimate Leaver demand? Give us what we want or we will take it from you? By violence if necessary....Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
I don't want no deal. But I'm not a craven coward who will sacrifice our citizens to avoid it.0 -
How can the EU be annexing Northern Ireland when all the Northern Irish polls show most Northern Irish voters want to stay in the single market and Customs Union?Philip_Thompson said:
I never suggested violence. I suggested we go on a metaphorical war footing in self defence against hostile enemies seeking to economic annex a part of our country. While offering a respectful temporary alternative to this.Beverley_C said:
The ultimate Leaver demand? Give us what we want or we will take it from you? By violence if necessary....Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
I don't want no deal. But I'm not a craven coward who will sacrifice our citizens to avoid it.0 -
Jonestown Brexit lurches ever closer.0
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If you want to have a very good idea of how Corbyn will govern, the last 24 hours have been very instructive. Forget all the hoo-ha about putting down a motion, not putting it down etc. That is froth.
What is important is this:
- he and those around him are very good indeed at getting resolutions through which give them exactly what they want while simultaneously giving others the impression that they have got what they want (eg the Conference resolution on Brexit)
- he will use every loophole and clever trick to avoid doing anything he does not want to do. Whether it is because he does not want to Remain or whether because he hopes a chaotic no deal exit will benefit Labour, his actions yesterday are designed to ensure that this becomes the inevitable destination.
Those who think that Corbyn is a thicko who does not understand the ins and outs of the WA or EU law and that he will have to moderate his actions when in power or will be kept under control by moderate Labour MPs or the SNP are guilty of wishful thinking. What he may lack for in intelligence he makes up for in cunning and a single-minded focus on what he wants to achieve and he and his advisors are - and will be - far better at using the levers of power within Labour and government than those who think that he is, somehow, on their side.0 -
Because - and I don't know how many times I need to say this to you - polls are irrelevant garbage.HYUFD said:
How can the EU be annexing Northern Ireland when all the Northern Irish polls show most Northern Irish voters want to stay in the single market and Customs Union?Philip_Thompson said:
I never suggested violence. I suggested we go on a metaphorical war footing in self defence against hostile enemies seeking to economic annex a part of our country. While offering a respectful temporary alternative to this.Beverley_C said:
The ultimate Leaver demand? Give us what we want or we will take it from you? By violence if necessary....Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
I don't want no deal. But I'm not a craven coward who will sacrifice our citizens to avoid it.
If the people of Northern Ireland democratically vote to be annexed then that is there choice. If they don't they are part of our country. Not the EU. It really is that simple. This choice belongs to the voters of Northern Ireland not Brussels and no craven cowardice can trump that.0 -
No, if Tory members want a No Dealer they will go for a Boris, Raab, Davis or Mogg or McVey full fat Coke version, not a Pepsi lite No Dealer former Remainer like Hunt just using it to try and advance his career prospectsMorris_Dancer said:I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1074983619012239360
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Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join0 -
She cannot be challenged for a year as Tory leader and she is too stubborn to resignRichard_Nabavi said:
'Secure' is putting it rather strongly!HYUFD said:
Given May is secure for a year and determined to Brexit in March that is unlikely, it is her Deal or No DealRichard_Nabavi said:
They should, but that means convincing them that we are indeed definitely leaving on March 29th. As we now know, we don't have to, and it's entirely in our gift to revoke. Alternatively, and I think more realistically, we could ask for an extension.Pulpstar said:@Richard_Nabavi If 'No deal' is unthinkable then surely the remainers in parliament will acquiesce to the deal seeing as we're definitely leaving on March 29th.....
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Could be a Deal v No Deal referendumStereotomy said:
What?! Weren't you telling us for months that if her deal failed she'd go for a second referendum?HYUFD said:
Given May is secure for a year and determined to Brexit in March that is unlikely, it is her Deal or No DealRichard_Nabavi said:
They should, but that means convincing them that we are indeed definitely leaving on March 29th. As we now know, we don't have to, and it's entirely in our gift to revoke. Alternatively, and I think more realistically, we could ask for an extension.Pulpstar said:@Richard_Nabavi If 'No deal' is unthinkable then surely the remainers in parliament will acquiesce to the deal seeing as we're definitely leaving on March 29th.....
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You do know what the word metaphorical means? But yes we do have an army of volunteers who have signed up to prevent acts of aggression. A hostile annexation without any democratic consultation of our citizens is precisely that.TOPPING said:
Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join0 -
"They'll go for Boris, not someone just using it to try and advance his career prospects."HYUFD said:
No, if Tory members want a No Dealer they will go for a Boris, Raab, Davis or Mogg or McVey full fat Coke version, not a Pepsi lite No Dealer former Remainer like Hunt just using it to try and advance his career prospectsMorris_Dancer said:I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1074983619012239360
Are we talking about the same Boris?0 -
Actually the 1922 has the right to change that year rule. Unlikely though it is.HYUFD said:
She cannot be challenged for a year as Tory leader and she is too stubborn to resignRichard_Nabavi said:
'Secure' is putting it rather strongly!HYUFD said:
Given May is secure for a year and determined to Brexit in March that is unlikely, it is her Deal or No DealRichard_Nabavi said:
They should, but that means convincing them that we are indeed definitely leaving on March 29th. As we now know, we don't have to, and it's entirely in our gift to revoke. Alternatively, and I think more realistically, we could ask for an extension.Pulpstar said:@Richard_Nabavi If 'No deal' is unthinkable then surely the remainers in parliament will acquiesce to the deal seeing as we're definitely leaving on March 29th.....
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Well give them a referendum on the Deal then, it would win easily in Northern Ireland over a hard border with the RepublicPhilip_Thompson said:
Because - and I don't know how many times I need to say this to you - polls are irrelevant garbage.HYUFD said:
How can the EU be annexing Northern Ireland when all the Northern Irish polls show most Northern Irish voters want to stay in the single market and Customs Union?Philip_Thompson said:
I never suggested violence. I suggested we go on a metaphorical war footing in self defence against hostile enemies seeking to economic annex a part of our country. While offering a respectful temporary alternative to this.Beverley_C said:
The ultimate Leaver demand? Give us what we want or we will take it from you? By violence if necessary....Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
I don't want no deal. But I'm not a craven coward who will sacrifice our citizens to avoid it.
If the people of Northern Ireland democratically vote to be annexed then that is there choice. If they don't they are part of our country. Not the EU. It really is that simple. This choice belongs to the voters of Northern Ireland not Brussels and no craven cowardice can trump that.0 -
It's not hostile. The government wants it, the EU want it, and the people of Northern Ireland want it.Philip_Thompson said:
You do know what the word metaphorical means? But yes we do have an army of volunteers who have signed up to prevent acts of aggression. A hostile annexation without any democratic consultation of our citizens is precisely that.TOPPING said:
Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join
Couldn't be less hostile.
Edit: and I came *that* close to posting (yet again) the Day Today "war" clip.0 -
Boris backed Leave before the referendum and still does, Hunt is a weathervane without the charismawilliamglenn said:
"They'll go for Boris, not someone just using it to try and advance his career prospects."HYUFD said:
No, if Tory members want a No Dealer they will go for a Boris, Raab, Davis or Mogg or McVey full fat Coke version, not a Pepsi lite No Dealer former Remainer like Hunt just using it to try and advance his career prospectsMorris_Dancer said:I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1074983619012239360
Are we talking about the same Boris?0 -
Hey if it's going to happen anyway, might as well enjoy the koolaidAlastairMeeks said:Jonestown Brexit lurches ever closer.
0 -
And anyway - "an army of volunteers" but not you, I see. So you obviously aren't too worried about it.Philip_Thompson said:
You do know what the word metaphorical means? But yes we do have an army of volunteers who have signed up to prevent acts of aggression. A hostile annexation without any democratic consultation of our citizens is precisely that.TOPPING said:
Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join0 -
FPT
@TheJezziah
I think we are disagreeing about whether something should be approved as a medicine. Those processes are in place for a very good reason - to protect patients. There is also the ability for a doctor to prescribe an unlicensed product (a "Special") should they believe that there is a good reason for it.
If someone chooses to self-medicate with marijuana, the authorities largely turn a blind eye (and I am certain a jury would never convict). The case of that poor boy last year was different because the parents - by telling the media they were going to Canada to import an illegal drug - effectively made it impossible for the authorities to ignore them
@TheKitchenCabinet
Thalidomide is an angiogenesis inhibitor. Pat Mahaffy took a big risk in developing the product for cancer (it was already on the market for leprosy but that is, fortunately, a very niche indication) but managed to get it approved. It does, however, have both a black box and a REMS requirement because of the very specific risks associated with that MoA.
Vioxx was a shame. The drug (and the Cox-II class as a whole) is very valuable in the treatment of severe pain. However, it should never have been as broadly utilised as it was - Merck got caught in a commercial race with Pfizer/Warner-Lambert - as the CV side effects were well known. The FDA judged that they were acceptable for patients with few other options (hence the approval) but they were not acceptable for the chronic market. FWIW Tremeau is looking to relaunch Vioxx for treatment of Hemophilic Arthropathy (NSAIDs are not suitable for these patients so their only option at present is chronic opioid use which is clearly sub-optimal).
FWIW, aspirin is a Cox-I and paracetamol a Cox-III. Cox-Is have GI side effects, while Cox-IIIs cause liver tox. No drug is perfect. It's a matter of balancing risks and benefits.
0 -
If they vote for it my objection goes away. So long as they can vote too to exit the deal.HYUFD said:
Well give them a referendum on the Deal then, it would win easily in Northern Ireland over a hard border with the RepublicPhilip_Thompson said:
Because - and I don't know how many times I need to say this to you - polls are irrelevant garbage.HYUFD said:
How can the EU be annexing Northern Ireland when all the Northern Irish polls show most Northern Irish voters want to stay in the single market and Customs Union?Philip_Thompson said:
I never suggested violence. I suggested we go on a metaphorical war footing in self defence against hostile enemies seeking to economic annex a part of our country. While offering a respectful temporary alternative to this.Beverley_C said:
The ultimate Leaver demand? Give us what we want or we will take it from you? By violence if necessary....Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
I don't want no deal. But I'm not a craven coward who will sacrifice our citizens to avoid it.
If the people of Northern Ireland democratically vote to be annexed then that is there choice. If they don't they are part of our country. Not the EU. It really is that simple. This choice belongs to the voters of Northern Ireland not Brussels and no craven cowardice can trump that.
The EU are not willing to let NI vote on it though. Which makes it an annexation pure and simple.0 -
That's overstating his performance yesterday; the timing and manner of his various interventions didn't look like such. But undoubtedly there are more clued up people behind him.Cyclefree said:If you want to have a very good idea of how Corbyn will govern, the last 24 hours have been very instructive. Forget all the hoo-ha about putting down a motion, not putting it down etc. That is froth.
What is important is this:
- he and those around him are very good indeed at getting resolutions through which give them exactly what they want while simultaneously giving others the impression that they have got what they want (eg the Conference resolution on Brexit)
- he will use every loophole and clever trick to avoid doing anything he does not want to do. Whether it is because he does not want to Remain or whether because he hopes a chaotic no deal exit will benefit Labour, his actions yesterday are designed to ensure that this becomes the inevitable destination.
Those who think that Corbyn is a thicko who does not understand the ins and outs of the WA or EU law and that he will have to moderate his actions when in power or will be kept under control by moderate Labour MPs or the SNP are guilty of wishful thinking. What he may lack for in intelligence he makes up for in cunning and a single-minded focus on what he wants to achieve and he and his advisors are - and will be - far better at using the levers of power within Labour and government than those who think that he is, somehow, on their side.0 -
Just prick its leg and drain off what you need.Stereotomy said:
They should really have unicorn blood banks. No slaying required.AlastairMeeks said:
'The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure and defenceless to save yourself, and you will have but a half life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.'Richard_Nabavi said:
J K Rowling
0 -
The people of NI have not voted for it. The EU do want it. The government has surrendered meekly to it after months of protestations and resignations. Yes it is hostile. Unless our citizens vote for it, and can control their own destiny so vote to leave it, it is hostile.TOPPING said:
It's not hostile. The government wants it, the EU want it, and the people of Northern Ireland want it.Philip_Thompson said:
You do know what the word metaphorical means? But yes we do have an army of volunteers who have signed up to prevent acts of aggression. A hostile annexation without any democratic consultation of our citizens is precisely that.TOPPING said:
Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join
Couldn't be less hostile.
Edit: and I came *that* close to posting (yet again) the Day Today "war" clip.0 -
-
Boris is an unreliable, incapable idiot. He backed Leave only just before the referendum and certainly had no grounded Eurosceptic philosophy going back years. Certainly, he found some aspects of the EU ludicrous but so did/do many Remainers. His TV program / book on The Dream of Rome was notably positive towards it.HYUFD said:
Boris backed Leave before the referendum and still does, Hunt is a weathervane without the charismawilliamglenn said:
"They'll go for Boris, not someone just using it to try and advance his career prospects."HYUFD said:
No, if Tory members want a No Dealer they will go for a Boris, Raab, Davis or Mogg or McVey full fat Coke version, not a Pepsi lite No Dealer former Remainer like Hunt just using it to try and advance his career prospectsMorris_Dancer said:I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1074983619012239360
Are we talking about the same Boris?0 -
Philip Thompson, the new Carson?TOPPING said:
And anyway - "an army of volunteers" but not you, I see. So you obviously aren't too worried about it.Philip_Thompson said:
You do know what the word metaphorical means? But yes we do have an army of volunteers who have signed up to prevent acts of aggression. A hostile annexation without any democratic consultation of our citizens is precisely that.TOPPING said:
Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join0 -
War is the ultimate sacrifice of our citizens. Your comment did not strike me as metaphorical.Philip_Thompson said:
I never suggested violence. I suggested we go on a metaphorical war footing in self defence against hostile enemies seeking to economically annex a part of our country. While offering a respectful temporary alternative to this.Beverley_C said:
The ultimate Leaver demand? Give us what we want or we will take it from you? By violence if necessary....Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
I don't want no deal. But I'm not a craven coward who will sacrifice our citizens to avoid it.0 -
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
0 -
He's giving Remainers the horn.Richard_Nabavi said:0 -
Our wonderful, strong, stable, sensitive, caring, democratically-elected (just including side agreements) government wants it.Philip_Thompson said:
The people of NI have not voted for it. The EU do want it. The government has surrendered meekly to it after months of protestations and resignations. Yes it is hostile. Unless our citizens vote for it, and can control their own destiny so vote to leave it, it is hostile.TOPPING said:
It's not hostile. The government wants it, the EU want it, and the people of Northern Ireland want it.Philip_Thompson said:
You do know what the word metaphorical means? But yes we do have an army of volunteers who have signed up to prevent acts of aggression. A hostile annexation without any democratic consultation of our citizens is precisely that.TOPPING said:
Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join
Couldn't be less hostile.
Edit: and I came *that* close to posting (yet again) the Day Today "war" clip.
So no, not hostile.
Not sure whether you are going to be taking up arms against the EU or Downing St tbh at the moment.0 -
That's no reason to copy the behaviour, otherwise you cna end up arguing about Cromwell, Luther and Ivarr the Boneless.TheKitchenCabinet said:
True but, to be fair, the same could be also be applied to the Irish on the other side of the coin. Much of their thinking is still influenced by their War of Independence view the "Brits" are out to get them.david_herdson said:
Even if that's true, do you not think it a bit sad and desperate to be expecting gratitude for something that happened over a hundred years ago?Philip_Thompson said:
Citation needed on them being allies.TOPPING said:
There's a lot wrong with invoking, John Cleese-like, our times of war with our current allies. Plus it is illogical as many EU members would not only have liked to have charged the Jones family €7 but to have shot them through the head also.Xenon said:
I think British business does ok overseas compared to most countries.SouthamObserver said:Digby Jones encapsulates absolutely everything that is wrong about British business management. Why do we so often struggle in overseas markets? Because there are far too many Digby Jones's sitting on our company boards.
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1074683987338190848
And there's nothing wrong with being proud of our involvement in WW2.
See what a stupid line of discussion it is?
Oh yes but it's @Xenon so obvs that is about the right level.
I see nothing ally like about how they have approached these negotiations. Hostile is more like it and if they want to treat us in a hostile manner trying to divide up our country then it takes two to tango.0 -
It's not going to be Boris.williamglenn said:
"They'll go for Boris, not someone just using it to try and advance his career prospects."HYUFD said:
No, if Tory members want a No Dealer they will go for a Boris, Raab, Davis or Mogg or McVey full fat Coke version, not a Pepsi lite No Dealer former Remainer like Hunt just using it to try and advance his career prospectsMorris_Dancer said:I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1074983619012239360
Are we talking about the same Boris?
Javid with Gove as CotE - remember this post.0 -
Going on Digby Jones' logic (visa regime based on which team you chose in WW2), I assume he wants free movement for Russians too?SouthamObserver said:
The EU is applying a charge to the nationals of all third countries, not just UK citizens. It is less than the US ESTA, it is about the same as the price of a Canadian one. It is much less than both my Chinese and Indian visas cost me. The idea that this is something the EU is vindictively doing to us is utterly absurd.TGOHF said:
Imagine the Uk had invented this visa charge - Southham would be frothing about little Englanders and turning our back on the world.Xenon said:
The EU could quite easily decide not to charge 7 euros, they are doing it out of spite.TOPPING said:
There's a lot wrong with invoking, John Cleese-like, our times of war with our current allies. Plus it is illogical as many EU members would not only have liked to have charged the Jones family €7 but to have shot them through the head also.Xenon said:
I think British business does ok overseas compared to most countries.SouthamObserver said:Digby Jones encapsulates absolutely everything that is wrong about British business management. Why do we so often struggle in overseas markets? Because there are far too many Digby Jones's sitting on our company boards.
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1074683987338190848
And there's nothing wrong with being proud of our involvement in WW2.
See what a stupid line of discussion it is?
Oh yes but it's @Xenon so obvs that is about the right level.
Obviously that's ok though according to you.
Brexit is a battle between optimistic leavers and misanthrope remainers.0 -
Yep. Which is why he could have had the Churchill moment of which he dreams immediately after the referendum, laying out a soft Brexit path to bring people together and puncturing the absurdities of the ERG. But he couldn't and wouldn't, and now it is too late.david_herdson said:
Boris is an unreliable, incapable idiot. He backed Leave only just before the referendum and certainly had no grounded Eurosceptic philosophy going back years. Certainly, he found some aspects of the EU ludicrous but so did/do many Remainers. His TV program / book on The Dream of Rome was notably positive towards it.HYUFD said:
Boris backed Leave before the referendum and still does, Hunt is a weathervane without the charismawilliamglenn said:
"They'll go for Boris, not someone just using it to try and advance his career prospects."HYUFD said:
No, if Tory members want a No Dealer they will go for a Boris, Raab, Davis or Mogg or McVey full fat Coke version, not a Pepsi lite No Dealer former Remainer like Hunt just using it to try and advance his career prospectsMorris_Dancer said:I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1074983619012239360
Are we talking about the same Boris?0 -
Gold, Juno and Sword were Anglo-Canadian. Utah and Omaha for the Septics.DecrepitJohnL said:
I have to say that PB has had one of its dafter mornings. We are going to have to get on with the continentals in the future (unless Express readers get their way and the UK is towed off into the Atlantic), so let's not try and fuck each others economies up any more than May's deal will, ta.0 -
Sheffield is getting renamed Owen Jonestown after Corbyn becomes PM.AlastairMeeks said:Jonestown Brexit lurches ever closer.
0 -
Morris_Dancer said:
I see Verhofstadt is helping those of us with bets on Hunt to be the next Con leader: https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1074983619012239360
"Provided the UK reciprocates"
So, if only EU airlines can fly internal EU flights, only British airlines can fly internal British flights?
Is that how they want it to work?0 -
Listen to the manager of a business on WATO explaining what a No Deal exit means. Redundancies in the UK and jobs transferred and “ once they’ve gone, they’re not coming back” even if the deal is eventually agreed.
Meanwhile politicians posture......0 -
Our friend @Philip_Thompson has lost the plot. The maximum extent of this hostile annexation - in the vanishingly unlikely scenario where the backstop lingers on despite neither side wanting it to - would be that Northern Ireland would have to continue to follow the same product and animal health rules as it does at the moment. In the annals of vassalage to a hostile foreign power that doesn't seem quite to justify the invective. It's not as though the EU are forcing them to legalise abortion or recognise gay marriage, or anything really hostile like that.TOPPING said:Our wonderful, strong, stable, sensitive, caring, democratically-elected (just including side agreements) government wants it.
So no, not hostile.
Not sure whether you are going to be taking up arms against the EU or Downing St tbh at the moment.0 -
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
0 -
Do theirs have aircraft on them?Dura_Ace said:
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
0 -
No the PM wants it. Parliament and over a hundred MPs in the government, including 100% of NI MPs included by the side agreement, oppose it.TOPPING said:
Our wonderful, strong, stable, sensitive, caring, democratically-elected (just including side agreements) government wants it.Philip_Thompson said:
The people of NI have not voted for it. The EU do want it. The government has surrendered meekly to it after months of protestations and resignations. Yes it is hostile. Unless our citizens vote for it, and can control their own destiny so vote to leave it, it is hostile.TOPPING said:
It's not hostile. The government wants it, the EU want it, and the people of Northern Ireland want it.Philip_Thompson said:
You do know what the word metaphorical means? But yes we do have an army of volunteers who have signed up to prevent acts of aggression. A hostile annexation without any democratic consultation of our citizens is precisely that.TOPPING said:
Go for it.Philip_Thompson said:
They'll only cave at the last minute. They have no reason to cave sooner.Andrew said:
We're 3 months out. They're not going to suddenly cave now.Philip_Thompson said:
Because they view the alternative (a total crash out) as worse.
This really shouldn't be surprising. When you negotiate with an economy 6x larger than yours, you don't get to dictate terms.
If they don't do be it. Wars have been fought for less.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join
Couldn't be less hostile.
Edit: and I came *that* close to posting (yet again) the Day Today "war" clip.
So no, not hostile.
Not sure whether you are going to be taking up arms against the EU or Downing St tbh at the moment.
Perhaps if it is so popular in NI you can tell me how many democratically elected and serving NI MPs are prepared to vote in favour of it? And how many oppose it?0 -
That process is going to start in earnest in the New Year, unfortunately.Cyclefree said:Listen to the manager of a business on WATO explaining what a No Deal exit means. Redundancies in the UK and jobs transferred and “ once they’ve gone, they’re not coming back” even if the deal is eventually agreed.
Meanwhile politicians posture......0 -
The posturing or the Exodus?Richard_Nabavi said:
That process is going to start in earnest in the New Year, unfortunately.Cyclefree said:Listen to the manager of a business on WATO explaining what a No Deal exit means. Redundancies in the UK and jobs transferred and “ once they’ve gone, they’re not coming back” even if the deal is eventually agreed.
Meanwhile politicians posture......0 -
And how will the apparently unannexed NI citizens in your glorious scenario be able to democratically change rules on product, animal health etc that they are obliged in perpetuity to follow?Richard_Nabavi said:
Our friend @Philip_Thompson has lost the plot. The maximum extent of this hostile annexation - in the vanishingly unlikely scenario where the backstop lingers on despite neither side wanting it to - would be that Northern Ireland would have to continue to follow the same product and animal health rules as it does at the moment. In the annals of vassalage to a hostile foreign power that doesn't seem quite to justify the invective. It's not as though the EU are forcing them to legalise abortion or recognise gay marriage, or anything really hostile like that.TOPPING said:Our wonderful, strong, stable, sensitive, caring, democratically-elected (just including side agreements) government wants it.
So no, not hostile.
Not sure whether you are going to be taking up arms against the EU or Downing St tbh at the moment.
In which elections will NI citizens be able to shape the rules they have?0 -
The only vaguely interesting thing that has come out of the exchange with him has been, on examination, the discovery that I am not sure of the gender of the person on the front page of the Army recruiting website. Which I imagine has been done deliberately.Richard_Nabavi said:
Our friend @Philip_Thompson has lost the plot. The maximum extent of this hostile annexation - in the vanishingly unlikely scenario where the backstop lingers on despite neither side wanting it to - would be that Northern Ireland would have to continue to follow the same product and animal health rules as it does at the moment. In the annals of vassalage to a hostile foreign power that doesn't seem quite to justify the invective. It's not as though the EU are forcing them to legalise abortion or recognise gay marriage, or anything really hostile like that.TOPPING said:Our wonderful, strong, stable, sensitive, caring, democratically-elected (just including side agreements) government wants it.
So no, not hostile.
Not sure whether you are going to be taking up arms against the EU or Downing St tbh at the moment.
https://apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join0 -
I know helicopters are aircraft.....but they're hardly in the QE class....Dura_Ace said:
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
0 -
It won't, just as it can't now, and couldn't in practice in any scenario. We live in a globalised world. The idea that the UK is going to have substantially different rules from the the EU is for the birds.Philip_Thompson said:
And how will the apparently unannexed NI citizens in your glorious scenario be able to democratically change rules on product, animal health etc that they are obliged in perpetuity to follow.Richard_Nabavi said:
Our friend @Philip_Thompson has lost the plot. The maximum extent of this hostile annexation - in the vanishingly unlikely scenario where the backstop lingers on despite neither side wanting it to - would be that Northern Ireland would have to continue to follow the same product and animal health rules as it does at the moment. In the annals of vassalage to a hostile foreign power that doesn't seem quite to justify the invective. It's not as though the EU are forcing them to legalise abortion or recognise gay marriage, or anything really hostile like that.TOPPING said:Our wonderful, strong, stable, sensitive, caring, democratically-elected (just including side agreements) government wants it.
So no, not hostile.
Not sure whether you are going to be taking up arms against the EU or Downing St tbh at the moment.0 -
The exodus. The posturing is well under way already.Beverley_C said:
The posturing or the Exodus?Richard_Nabavi said:
That process is going to start in earnest in the New Year, unfortunately.Cyclefree said:Listen to the manager of a business on WATO explaining what a No Deal exit means. Redundancies in the UK and jobs transferred and “ once they’ve gone, they’re not coming back” even if the deal is eventually agreed.
Meanwhile politicians posture......0 -
https://twitter.com/HMSQnlz/status/1054890400828350466Beverley_C said:
Do theirs have aircraft on them?Dura_Ace said:
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
0 -
Anyone have a guess on the price of agricultural land and interest rates if we
i) Remain
ii) Leave with May's deal
iii) Leave with no deal0 -
It can now. The voters in NI have MEPs and votes in Council now. If they follow UK rules they have MPs.Richard_Nabavi said:
It won't, just as it can't now, and couldn't in practice in any scenario. We live in a globalised world. The idea that the UK is going to have substantially different rules from the the EU is for the birds.Philip_Thompson said:
And how will the apparently unannexed NI citizens in your glorious scenario be able to democratically change rules on product, animal health etc that they are obliged in perpetuity to follow.Richard_Nabavi said:
Our friend @Philip_Thompson has lost the plot. The maximum extent of this hostile annexation - in the vanishingly unlikely scenario where the backstop lingers on despite neither side wanting it to - would be that Northern Ireland would have to continue to follow the same product and animal health rules as it does at the moment. In the annals of vassalage to a hostile foreign power that doesn't seem quite to justify the invective. It's not as though the EU are forcing them to legalise abortion or recognise gay marriage, or anything really hostile like that.TOPPING said:Our wonderful, strong, stable, sensitive, caring, democratically-elected (just including side agreements) government wants it.
So no, not hostile.
Not sure whether you are going to be taking up arms against the EU or Downing St tbh at the moment.
If the UK isn't going to have substantially different rules then the backstop is moot so the abomination of disenfranchising our citizens is unnecessary. You're trying to have your cake and eat it in claiming the backstop is both necessary and meaningless.0 -
Do ours have aircraft on them yet or are they still just highly expensive football pitches? The clue is in the name - Aircraft CarrierCarlottaVance said:
I know helicopters are aircraft.....but they're hardly in the QE class....Dura_Ace said:
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
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My impression of Corbyn is that he is far from a 'thicko' but nevertheless is not as clever as I like my Prime Ministers to be. If he gets in I think he will cede domestic policy to John McDonnell who strikes me as clear thinking, pragmatic and driven. I foresee something of a Tony & Gordon type double act, JM running the country, JC immersing himself in other matters. Perhaps they will fall out and try to re-bond over an ice cream. It's quite a thought.Cyclefree said:If you want to have a very good idea of how Corbyn will govern, the last 24 hours have been very instructive. Forget all the hoo-ha about putting down a motion, not putting it down etc. That is froth.
What is important is this:
- he and those around him are very good indeed at getting resolutions through which give them exactly what they want while simultaneously giving others the impression that they have got what they want (eg the Conference resolution on Brexit)
- he will use every loophole and clever trick to avoid doing anything he does not want to do. Whether it is because he does not want to Remain or whether because he hopes a chaotic no deal exit will benefit Labour, his actions yesterday are designed to ensure that this becomes the inevitable destination.
Those who think that Corbyn is a thicko who does not understand the ins and outs of the WA or EU law and that he will have to moderate his actions when in power or will be kept under control by moderate Labour MPs or the SNP are guilty of wishful thinking. What he may lack for in intelligence he makes up for in cunning and a single-minded focus on what he wants to achieve and he and his advisors are - and will be - far better at using the levers of power within Labour and government than those who think that he is, somehow, on their side.0 -
That is one ugly as frig ship. The F35B is a handsome beast though.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/HMSQnlz/status/1054890400828350466Beverley_C said:
Do theirs have aircraft on them?Dura_Ace said:
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
0 -
*Sigh*Richard_Nabavi said:
The exodus. The posturing is well under way already.Beverley_C said:
The posturing or the Exodus?Richard_Nabavi said:
That process is going to start in earnest in the New Year, unfortunately.Cyclefree said:Listen to the manager of a business on WATO explaining what a No Deal exit means. Redundancies in the UK and jobs transferred and “ once they’ve gone, they’re not coming back” even if the deal is eventually agreed.
Meanwhile politicians posture......
It looks like the time is arriving to move the last of my financial assets out of the UK, before the £ is worth 2¢0 -
0
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It's not my cake, it's the EU which is insisting on the backstop. As you will recall I've long argued that it's a bit of a nonsense, but since no backstop means no deal, and since no deal is absolutely unthinkable, and since the backstop is fairly harmless anyway in practice, and since it cannot endure for long because it's so favourable to the UK, the government was right to accept it.Philip_Thompson said:It can now. The voters in NI have MEPs and votes in Council now. If they follow UK rules they have MPs.
If the UK isn't going to have substantially different rules then the backstop is moot so the abomination of disenfranchising our citizens is unnecessary. You're trying to have your cake and eat it in claiming the backstop is both necessary and meaningless.0 -
See previous post.Beverley_C said:
Do ours have aircraft on them yet or are they still just highly expensive football pitches? The clue is in the name - Aircraft CarrierCarlottaVance said:
I know helicopters are aircraft.....but they're hardly in the QE class....Dura_Ace said:
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
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For as much as people seem to think me and many MPs having the belief that our citizens have rights is outrageous ... I don't see anyone making a principled argument for an in perpetuity disenfranchisement of our citizens without their explicit democratic consent.
Either the backstop is meaningless in which case why insist upon it?
Or it is meaningful in which case it is a democratic outrage and human rights abomination.0 -
Beverley_C said:
*Sigh*Richard_Nabavi said:
The exodus. The posturing is well under way already.Beverley_C said:
The posturing or the Exodus?Richard_Nabavi said:
That process is going to start in earnest in the New Year, unfortunately.Cyclefree said:Listen to the manager of a business on WATO explaining what a No Deal exit means. Redundancies in the UK and jobs transferred and “ once they’ve gone, they’re not coming back” even if the deal is eventually agreed.
Meanwhile politicians posture......
It looks like the time is arriving to move the last of my financial assets out of the UK, before the £ is worth 2¢
Just in time for a bounce when May gets her deal through......0 -
It's a very good thread - note especially 13, which is spot-on.CarlottaVance said:Apols if posted before:
https://twitter.com/HenryNewman/status/10746350791530127360 -
Will there be another Kinnockesque rally..Dura_Ace said:
Sheffield is getting renamed Owen Jonestown after Corbyn becomes PM.AlastairMeeks said:Jonestown Brexit lurches ever closer.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=labour+rally+sheffield&qs=PF&cvid=2d212129c09d483bb7051c8d398a86c0&cc=GB&setlang=en-gb&elv=AXK1c4IvZoNqPoPnS!QRLOMf8A2oVrzmzwG82A8XkGJcSaS0BqAmELPDJGVmtUWL1sUmb3KPPdnEYosd48o8vWBc0H9JQmg*FRb0aXE9Ni4v&ru=/search?q=labour+rally+sheffield&form=EDGEAR&qs=PF&cvid=2d212129c09d483bb7051c8d398a86c0&cc=GB&setlang=en-gb&elv=AXK1c4IvZoNqPoPnS%21QRLOMf8A2oVrzmzwG82A8XkGJcSaS0BqAmELPDJGVmtUWL1sUmb3KPPdnEYosd48o8vWBc0H9JQmg*FRb0aXE9Ni4v&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=2AA7CFAC3EB6C3815FB12AA7CFAC3EB6C3815FB1&FORM=WRVORC0 -
I disagree. You view it as harmless, I don't. Nor do the EU which is why they are insisting upon it. If the EU thought it was a bit of nonsense they wouldn't be insisting upon it.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's not my cake, it's the EU which is insisting on the backstop. As you will recall I've long argued that it's a bit of a nonsense, but since no backstop means no deal, and since no deal is absolutely unthinkable, and since it's fairly harmless anyway in practice, and since it cannot endure for long because it's so favourable to the UK, the government was right to accept it.Philip_Thompson said:It can now. The voters in NI have MEPs and votes in Council now. If they follow UK rules they have MPs.
If the UK isn't going to have substantially different rules then the backstop is moot so the abomination of disenfranchising our citizens is unnecessary. You're trying to have your cake and eat it in claiming the backstop is both necessary and meaningless.
So why are you right? Why are the EU and I wrong?0 -
Yes. Except...it's not nonsense. Life and death, me old cocker, life and death.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's not my cake, it's the EU which is insisting on the backstop. As you will recall I've long argued that it's a bit of a nonsense, but since no backstop means no deal, and since no deal is absolutely unthinkable, and since it's fairly harmless anyway in practice, and since it cannot endure for long because it's so favourable to the UK, the government was right to accept it.Philip_Thompson said:It can now. The voters in NI have MEPs and votes in Council now. If they follow UK rules they have MPs.
If the UK isn't going to have substantially different rules then the backstop is moot so the abomination of disenfranchising our citizens is unnecessary. You're trying to have your cake and eat it in claiming the backstop is both necessary and meaningless.
Although I appreciate once @Philip_Thompson joins up he might well find out just how important the backstop would have been.0 -
Thanks.CarlottaVance said:
See previous post.Beverley_C said:
Do ours have aircraft on them yet or are they still just highly expensive football pitches? The clue is in the name - Aircraft CarrierCarlottaVance said:
I know helicopters are aircraft.....but they're hardly in the QE class....Dura_Ace said:
CdG, Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude.CarlottaVance said:
France has "4 aircraft carriers" LOL! They have one, if you count Charles de Gaulle, which may be charitable....IanB2 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMpDn9VIDLMRichard_Nabavi said:
We could seize Calais back, and then we'd be able to sort out the no-deal customs arrangements at that end as well as the Dover end. Time for bold thinking!Sean_F said:Maybe Boris will try to outbid him, by proposing war against the EU.
0 -
Which is the scarier prospect ?
a) "No deal" Brexit
b) Global warming/climate change
c) The millennium bug ?
And which one kills us all first.0
