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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Get ready for possibly the Xmas TV event of the year – May v Corbyn on the Brexit deal
Number 10 so confident of May’s knowledge of the withdrawal agreement that they are considering challenging a Corbyn to a debate on it ahead of the meaningful vote on the 12th of December https://t.co/lnkGQ03DIT
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Primus and assuredly not inter pares.0
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good second0
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Zippo chance of Corbyn agreeing to that. May is a detail-focused type who's been immersed in this for two years, while Corbyn can barely be bothered learning the basics.0
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Fourth!0
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If she doesn't know what she's talking about with respect to agreement, heavan help us. The fact that it's suggested that she doesn't is frightening.
Mind, I doubt Corbyn knows much of the detail either. If May was up against Starmer, an experienced lawyer, things might be different.0 -
May is poor and wooden.
Corbyn would win, as he would concentrate on austerity, and only a handful of people are interested in the footnotes on page 382.0 -
Rumours that this is a ploy to facilitate their defenestration and seizure of the government by the enormo-haddock are entirely false.
Alas.0 -
May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.0
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See my previous comment. I can't think of two people less likely to agree to debate this, despite what No 10 sources mutter.0
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The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
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Surely Theresa would be better debating Boris. Get him away from the flatulent rhetoric and make him do details. His ensuing humiliation should make a few No Dealers more than queasy.0
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If it was a debate solely on the Deal he would not be allowed to talk about austerity by the moderators as it would be going off topicFoxy said:May is poor and wooden.
Corbyn would win, as he would concentrate on austerity, and only a handful of people are interested in the footnotes on page 382.0 -
Perhaps she could debate Corbyn, Umunna, Boris, Foster and Sturgeon, then all bases covered and she might be able to come out on top as her Deal is the only way that does not further divideStark_Dawning said:Surely Theresa would be better debating Boris. Get him away from the flatulent rhetoric and make him do details. His ensuing humiliation should make a few No Dealers more than queasy.
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Sturgeon would eat her for breakfastHYUFD said:
Perhaps she could debate Corbyn, Umunna, Boris, Foster and Sturgeon, then all bases covered and she might be able to come out on top as her Deal is the only way that does not further divideStark_Dawning said:Surely Theresa would be better debating Boris. Get him away from the flatulent rhetoric and make him do details. His ensuing humiliation should make a few No Dealers more than queasy.
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Such terms of reference would negate a debate. Corbyn could easily say the public are fed up of Brexit. Let's have a debate on the real issues of jobs, investment, public services, etc..HYUFD said:
If it was a debate solely on the Deal he would not be allowed to talk about austerity by the moderators as it would be going off topicFoxy said:May is poor and wooden.
Corbyn would win, as he would concentrate on austerity, and only a handful of people are interested in the footnotes on page 382.0 -
Great news that she’s prepared to put her deal up to public scrutiny like this. Makes you wonder why she’s so frit of having a public vote on it...0
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Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
Not much more to give away , not keeping much for the FTA, what a joke this is turning out to be. Would not be surprised if she threw in the Falklands as a job lot.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
The Brussels reporter on PM said the Spanish had actually got nothing at all but were talking it up for domestic consumption. Sounds like Cameron with the his 'deal'.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1066376232219144192Richard_Tyndall said:
The Brussels reporter on PM said the Spanish had actually got nothing at all but were talking it up for domestic consumption. Sounds like Cameron with the his 'deal'.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
Perhaps it is her cunning plan to bring around a #peoplesvote.El_Capitano said:Great news that she’s prepared to put her deal up to public scrutiny like this. Makes you wonder why she’s so frit of having a public vote on it...
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OTOH, we could be the ones talking it up for domestic consumption claiming we've given nothing away when we've made a substantial concession.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Brussels reporter on PM said the Spanish had actually got nothing at all but were talking it up for domestic consumption. Sounds like Cameron with the his 'deal'.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
He could do but he would be refused the opportunity by the moderator and in any case May could reasonably point out the future of all those issues depend on getting Brexit rightdixiedean said:
Such terms of reference would negate a debate. Corbyn could easily say the public are fed up of Brexit. Let's have a debate on the real issues of jobs, investment, public services, etc..HYUFD said:
If it was a debate solely on the Deal he would not be allowed to talk about austerity by the moderators as it would be going off topicFoxy said:May is poor and wooden.
Corbyn would win, as he would concentrate on austerity, and only a handful of people are interested in the footnotes on page 382.0 -
Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?0
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Was Deborah reading my comments on the last thread?rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1066376232219144192Richard_Tyndall said:
The Brussels reporter on PM said the Spanish had actually got nothing at all but were talking it up for domestic consumption. Sounds like Cameron with the his 'deal'.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-463029050 -
Still about. Was praising Boris's oratory brilliance on the last thread.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
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Hardly seems likely that the BBC would be talking it up. They would be more likely to be reporting another British defeat with glee if they could spin it that way.stodge said:
OTOH, we could be the ones talking it up for domestic consumption claiming we've given nothing away when we've made a substantial concession.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Brussels reporter on PM said the Spanish had actually got nothing at all but were talking it up for domestic consumption. Sounds like Cameron with the his 'deal'.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
I think that's a different Geoff.Stark_Dawning said:
Still about. Was praising Boris's oratory brilliance on the last thread.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
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Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
'Last month, the government announced plans to introduce a New Homes Ombudsman, to help buyers having problems with their newly built property.stodge said:So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
Housing Minister Heather Wheeler told 5 Live Investigates: "Where people have problems with their new-build home, builders and warranty providers have a legal and moral obligation to put it right.
"While we develop these plans, we expect the industry to continue to improve the current redress arrangements and ensure properties are consistently of a good standard."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-463029050 -
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
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The donkeys would not even know they were signing it away, Spain has waited till it is too late for the morons to do anything.stodge said:
OTOH, we could be the ones talking it up for domestic consumption claiming we've given nothing away when we've made a substantial concession.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Brussels reporter on PM said the Spanish had actually got nothing at all but were talking it up for domestic consumption. Sounds like Cameron with the his 'deal'.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
Spain: "Lets talk about co-sovereignty"HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
UK: "OK, lets ask the Gibraltarians"
Gibraltar: "Foxtrot Oscar"
UK: "We tried. Next?"0 -
May is such an expert on her deal that she doesn't know whether or not it is better than remaining in the EU.
Jezza would make mincemeat of her.0 -
LOL, if they want their FTA , they will do as usual and sign it over , you Tories really are fools.CarlottaVance said:
Spain: "Lets talk about co-sovereignty"HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
UK: "OK, lets ask the Gibraltarians"
Gibraltar: "Foxtrot Oscar"
UK: "We tried. Next?"0 -
Are you suggesting Leavers are gay?IanB2 said:
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
Miserable lot maybe, unable to see where there's a bright future, but surely they're the say mix as the rest of us?0 -
According to his profile GeoffM was banned. Last active August 2017.williamglenn said:
I think that's a different Geoff.Stark_Dawning said:
Still about. Was praising Boris's oratory brilliance on the last thread.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
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And yet, you lost the independence referendum.....go figure.....malcolmg said:
you Tories really are fools.CarlottaVance said:
Spain: "Lets talk about co-sovereignty"HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
UK: "OK, lets ask the Gibraltarians"
Gibraltar: "Foxtrot Oscar"
UK: "We tried. Next?"0 -
Which is why I am saying he would never agree to such laughable terms of reference. And how he would spin not taking part.HYUFD said:
He could do but he would be refused the opportunity by the moderator and in any case May could reasonably point out the future of all those issues depend on getting Brexit rightdixiedean said:
Such terms of reference would negate a debate. Corbyn could easily say the public are fed up of Brexit. Let's have a debate on the real issues of jobs, investment, public services, etc..HYUFD said:
If it was a debate solely on the Deal he would not be allowed to talk about austerity by the moderators as it would be going off topicFoxy said:May is poor and wooden.
Corbyn would win, as he would concentrate on austerity, and only a handful of people are interested in the footnotes on page 382.
Additional lines include, but are not limited to.
If you want a debate, PM, call an election and we can have a proper one.
You really need to be debating your own Party colleagues.
You refused a debate during the GE. You want one now?
Etc, etc, etc.0 -
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
Looks like you have given up your brains. And yes you are definitely a f###ing mess.Scott_P said:0 -
Scotland has its cowards and fools as well, the bribes worked on the fools until the vote was over. The idiots now see the results, it will be tougher next time.CarlottaVance said:
And yet, you lost the independence referendum.....go figure.....malcolmg said:
you Tories really are fools.CarlottaVance said:
Spain: "Lets talk about co-sovereignty"HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
UK: "OK, lets ask the Gibraltarians"
Gibraltar: "Foxtrot Oscar"
UK: "We tried. Next?"0 -
All fine but if lots of new homes mean lots of problems how can we be sure the new Homes Ombudsman is going to be properly resourced in order to deal with the volume of complaints in a timely and proper manner?HYUFD said:
'Last month, the government announced plans to introduce a New Homes Ombudsman, to help buyers having problems with their newly built property.stodge said:So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
Housing Minister Heather Wheeler told 5 Live Investigates: "Where people have problems with their new-build home, builders and warranty providers have a legal and moral obligation to put it right.
"While we develop these plans, we expect the industry to continue to improve the current redress arrangements and ensure properties are consistently of a good standard."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
If it's not properly established, the New Homes Ombudsman becomes another political gimmick, a meaningless waste of public money.
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Talking of Marbles - that will be the Greek demand for signing. You see.....Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:0 -
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
Even Spain is not demanding Gibraltar be handed over with full sovereignty without Gibraltarians consentmalcolmg said:
LOL, if they want their FTA , they will do as usual and sign it over , you Tories really are fools.CarlottaVance said:
Spain: "Lets talk about co-sovereignty"HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
UK: "OK, lets ask the Gibraltarians"
Gibraltar: "Foxtrot Oscar"
UK: "We tried. Next?"0 -
They better start learning Spanish , that is for sure.HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
I certainly wasn't suggesting that. Only noting that as a Leave voter living in Gibraltar he must have mixed in a very narrow social circle.OldKingCole said:
Are you suggesting Leavers are gay?IanB2 said:
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
Miserable lot maybe, unable to see where there's a bright future, but surely they're the say mix as the rest of us?0 -
What, the second sunniest place in the UK, after Ventnor?HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
It is the new homes which cost, the New Homes Ombudsman will cost less than the new buildings and just because a new home has a defect somewhere does not necessarily make it unlivable even before it is rectifiedstodge said:
All fine but if lots of new homes mean lots of problems how can we be sure the new Homes Ombudsman is going to be properly resourced in order to deal with the volume of complaints in a timely and proper manner?HYUFD said:
'Last month, the government announced plans to introduce a New Homes Ombudsman, to help buyers having problems with their newly built property.stodge said:So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
Housing Minister Heather Wheeler told 5 Live Investigates: "Where people have problems with their new-build home, builders and warranty providers have a legal and moral obligation to put it right.
"While we develop these plans, we expect the industry to continue to improve the current redress arrangements and ensure properties are consistently of a good standard."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
If it's not properly established, the New Homes Ombudsman becomes another political gimmick, a meaningless waste of public money.
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Yet, are you in the Brexit negotiating team, certainly sound as if you would believe anything.HYUFD said:
Even Spain is not demanding Gibraltar be handed over with full sovereignty without Gibraltarians consentmalcolmg said:
LOL, if they want their FTA , they will do as usual and sign it over , you Tories really are fools.CarlottaVance said:
Spain: "Lets talk about co-sovereignty"HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
UK: "OK, lets ask the Gibraltarians"
Gibraltar: "Foxtrot Oscar"
UK: "We tried. Next?"0 -
That is a bit like saying the second warmest place in Siberia in winter, not much of a trophyIanB2 said:
What, the second sunniest place in the UK, after Ventnor?HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
Maybe we should keep Gibraltar and let Spain have Eastbourne?malcolmg said:
They better start learning Spanish , that is for sure.HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
Indeed, most folk in Gibraltar want to stay in the EU. Well, there is an obvious way to achieve that.IanB2 said:
I certainly wasn't suggesting that. Only noting that as a Leave voter living in Gibraltar he must have mixed in a very narrow social circle.OldKingCole said:
Are you suggesting Leavers are gay?IanB2 said:
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
Miserable lot maybe, unable to see where there's a bright future, but surely they're the say mix as the rest of us?0 -
I have bought two new homes in my time and both of them had snagging problems. Indeed it sometimes takes time for them to become apparent.stodge said:
All fine but if lots of new homes mean lots of problems how can we be sure the new Homes Ombudsman is going to be properly resourced in order to deal with the volume of complaints in a timely and proper manner?HYUFD said:
'Last month, the government announced plans to introduce a New Homes Ombudsman, to help buyers having problems with their newly built property.stodge said:So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
Housing Minister Heather Wheeler told 5 Live Investigates: "Where people have problems with their new-build home, builders and warranty providers have a legal and moral obligation to put it right.
"While we develop these plans, we expect the industry to continue to improve the current redress arrangements and ensure properties are consistently of a good standard."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
If it's not properly established, the New Homes Ombudsman becomes another political gimmick, a meaningless waste of public money.
Our problems came under the 2 year NHBC guarantee and were sorted. We need to be careful that we do not lose common sense0 -
As I know from experience, defects do not mean a new property is uninhabitable and the BBC story is an extreme example but many new homes do have significant problems beyond snagging such as poorly installed windows or roofs and these can take a lot of time and cost to rectify.HYUFD said:It is the new homes which cost, the New Homes Ombudsman will cost less than the new buildings and just because a new home has a defect somewhere does not necessarily make it unlivable even before it is rectified
The developer isn't really interested in revisiting sites and the ones I have dealt with fight tooth and nail to deny responsibility and prevaricate around remedial works. My concern is the volume of small problems will overwhelm a poorly resourced service which is in theory a good idea but will only work in practice if it has clout.
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Not necessarily....some of us do interact with people whose views are not identical to our own....IanB2 said:
I certainly wasn't suggesting that. Only noting that as a Leave voter living in Gibraltar he must have mixed in a very narrow social circle.OldKingCole said:
Are you suggesting Leavers are gay?IanB2 said:
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
Miserable lot maybe, unable to see where there's a bright future, but surely they're the say mix as the rest of us?0 -
As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it0 -
Given Spain was regularly over 40 degrees celcius this summer and the mild Spanish winters we could let the Spanish spend summer in Eastbourne and the British spend winter in GibraltarIanB2 said:
Maybe we should keep Gibraltar and let Spain have Eastbourne?malcolmg said:
They better start learning Spanish , that is for sure.HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
The way this lot are negotiating they are likely to get both.IanB2 said:
Maybe we should keep Gibraltar and let Spain have Eastbourne?malcolmg said:
They better start learning Spanish , that is for sure.HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
First, Britain’s experience “has shown how complicated leaving is. Second, Brexit has boosted popular support for the EU.” October’s Eurobarometer survey shows that 68% of respondents feel their country benefits from EU membership, the highest level since 1983, while 66% – a majority in every state – said they would vote to remain in any exit referendum.0
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Having an Ombudsman is treating the symptoms and not the cause. The construction industry has been called a 'jungle' for >50 years. What's really needed is to educate, train and regulate the industry like its counterparts in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany or Denmark, or indeed Austria or Switzerland, where houses are visibly higher quality and not as expensive.HYUFD said:
It is the new homes which cost, the New Homes Ombudsman will cost less than the new buildings and just because a new home has a defect somewhere does not necessarily make it unlivable even before it is rectifiedstodge said:
All fine but if lots of new homes mean lots of problems how can we be sure the new Homes Ombudsman is going to be properly resourced in order to deal with the volume of complaints in a timely and proper manner?HYUFD said:
'Last month, the government announced plans to introduce a New Homes Ombudsman, to help buyers having problems with their newly built property.stodge said:So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
Housing Minister Heather Wheeler told 5 Live Investigates: "Where people have problems with their new-build home, builders and warranty providers have a legal and moral obligation to put it right.
"While we develop these plans, we expect the industry to continue to improve the current redress arrangements and ensure properties are consistently of a good standard."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
If it's not properly established, the New Homes Ombudsman becomes another political gimmick, a meaningless waste of public money.
It may not happen. Housebuilders' money helps to finance the Tory party. Landowners make a packet out of the system of awarding planning permission. There's always downward pressure on construction costs and quality because the price paid for the land is so high, also in a seller's market a developer can sell any old rubbish for £300,000.
When Milton Keynes began, the system was different. The development corporation bought farmland at its existing value - which is about £1,000 for a plot 50 x 20 m (quarter acre) - and sold serviced plots to self-builders, or bare plots to developers to put in services. The profit went to the treasury but in some countries it goes to the local council and reduces taxes.0 -
This year, at least, both Ventnor and Eastbourne have been extremely sunny.HYUFD said:
That is a bit like saying the second warmest place in Siberia in winter, not much of a trophyIanB2 said:
What, the second sunniest place in the UK, after Ventnor?HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
I'm trying to emphasise (for HYUFD's benefit) the difference between snagging and more serious problems. Many moons ago I bought a brand new flat but, along with every other Owner, we discovered the wooden window frames had been of poor quality and the paint on them had begun to peel off in the first winter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have bought two new homes in my time and both of them had snagging problems. Indeed it sometimes takes time for them to become apparent.
Our problems came under the 2 year NHBC guarantee and were sorted. We need to be careful that we do not lose common sense
We subsequently discovered the frames had been left out in the rain before being fitted and were never properly treated.
We claimed against the developer wanting proper windows for over 120 flats in three blocks all of which had the same problem and it was a long hard fight to get the developer to a) accept there was a problem and b) to do anything about it.
This is the kind of dispute where the New Homes Ombudsman could be of value but my concern is given the volume of new property being built and the likely volume of complaints, this new initiative needs to be properly resourced rather than just being one person in an office somewhere.
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I am not surprised by that finding. It does not of course mean we should stayIanB2 said:First, Britain’s experience “has shown how complicated leaving is. Second, Brexit has boosted popular support for the EU.” October’s Eurobarometer survey shows that 68% of respondents feel their country benefits from EU membership, the highest level since 1983, while 66% – a majority in every state – said they would vote to remain in any exit referendum.
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In the summer, not NovemberIanB2 said:
This year, at least, both Ventnor and Eastbourne have been extremely sunny.HYUFD said:
That is a bit like saying the second warmest place in Siberia in winter, not much of a trophyIanB2 said:
What, the second sunniest place in the UK, after Ventnor?HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
I can say what's in this for May but not for Corbyn. He's not absolutely nothing to gain from this so why should he do it?Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it
Would she be prepared to debate Boris?0 -
Tiree in the Outer Hebs has the most sunshine hours in the UK.IanB2 said:
This year, at least, both Ventnor and Eastbourne have been extremely sunny.HYUFD said:
That is a bit like saying the second warmest place in Siberia in winter, not much of a trophyIanB2 said:
What, the second sunniest place in the UK, after Ventnor?HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
That needs a means of arbitrationstodge said:
I'm trying to emphasise (for HYUFD's benefit) the difference between snagging and more serious problems. Many moons ago I bought a brand new flat but, along with every other Owner, we discovered the wooden window frames had been of poor quality and the paint on them had begun to peel off in the first winter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have bought two new homes in my time and both of them had snagging problems. Indeed it sometimes takes time for them to become apparent.
Our problems came under the 2 year NHBC guarantee and were sorted. We need to be careful that we do not lose common sense
We subsequently discovered the frames had been left out in the rain before being fitted and were never properly treated.
We claimed against the developer wanting proper windows for over 120 flats in three blocks all of which had the same problem and it was a long hard fight to get the developer to a) accept there was a problem and b) to do anything about it.
This is the kind of dispute where the New Homes Ombudsman could be of value but my concern is given the volume of new property being built and the likely volume of complaints, this new initiative needs to be properly resourced rather than just being one person in an office somewhere.-1 -
Maybe in terms of improving quality but Switzerland and Germany have the lowest home ownership rates in Europe which is what building more homes is primarily supposed to addressrural_voter said:
Having an Ombudsman is treating the symptoms and not the cause. The construction industry has been called a 'jungle' for >50 years. What's really needed is to educate, train and regulate the industry like its counterparts in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany or Denmark, or indeed Austria or Switzerland, where houses are visibly higher quality and not as expensive.HYUFD said:
It is the new homes which cost, the New Homes Ombudsman will cost less than the new buildings and just because a new home has a defect somewhere does not necessarily make it unlivable even before it is rectifiedstodge said:
All fine but if lots of new homes mean lots of problems how can we be sure the new Homes Ombudsman is going to be properly resourced in order to deal with the volume of complaints in a timely and proper manner?HYUFD said:
'Last month, the government announced plans to introduce a New Homes Ombudsman, to help buyers having problems with their newly built property.stodge said:So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
Housing Minister Heather Wheeler told 5 Live Investigates: "Where people have problems with their new-build home, builders and warranty providers have a legal and moral obligation to put it right.
"While we develop these plans, we expect the industry to continue to improve the current redress arrangements and ensure properties are consistently of a good standard."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
If it's not properly established, the New Homes Ombudsman becomes another political gimmick, a meaningless waste of public money.
It may not happen. Housebuilders' money helps to finance the Tory party. Landowners make a packet out of the system of awarding planning permission. There's always downward pressure on construction costs and quality because the price paid for the land is so high, also in a seller's market a developer can sell any old rubbish for £300,000.
When Milton Keynes began, the system was different. The development corporation bought farmland at its existing value - which is about £1,000 for a plot 50 x 20 m (quarter acre) - and sold serviced plots to self-builders, or bare plots to developers to put in services. The profit went to the treasury but in some countries it goes to the local council and reduces taxes.0 -
Oh shit.-1
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She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.0 -
The May as Chamberlain comparisons are already starting, Boris clearly thinks he is Churchillmalcolmg said:
The way this lot are negotiating they are likely to get both.IanB2 said:
Maybe we should keep Gibraltar and let Spain have Eastbourne?malcolmg said:
They better start learning Spanish , that is for sure.HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
https://twitter.com/Fr33domF0x/status/1066364218595790848?s=200 -
In reality as it always has been , it is an internal conservative dog fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it
May should debate with Jacob.
Put it on BBC 3 , so not to interrupt any one else.0 -
The declaration is like the December agreement all over again. It asserts that the four freedoms are indivisible. Once you combine that with the backstop it's a strong pointer towards a long-term BINO outcome, but done in a way that allows people who think it means something else to claim victory.Casino_Royale said:She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.0 -
Presumably all genuinely progressive people do....! One of the more interesting sideshows of Brexit is the demonstration of how many supposedly 'open minded' people don't really want to engage with those with whom they disagree.CarlottaVance said:
Not necessarily....some of us do interact with people whose views are not identical to our own....IanB2 said:
I certainly wasn't suggesting that. Only noting that as a Leave voter living in Gibraltar he must have mixed in a very narrow social circle.OldKingCole said:
Are you suggesting Leavers are gay?IanB2 said:
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
Miserable lot maybe, unable to see where there's a bright future, but surely they're the say mix as the rest of us?0 -
It doesn't say anything that wasn't already known.rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1066376232219144192Richard_Tyndall said:
The Brussels reporter on PM said the Spanish had actually got nothing at all but were talking it up for domestic consumption. Sounds like Cameron with the his 'deal'.Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa needs to get Michael Howard on the airwaves again, putting us on a war footing against Spanish speaking nations. Does he still have all his marbles?Scott_P said:
The worst that happens is Gib gets a mini "no deal" just for itself, not joint sovereignty, and because that will also screw a large part of Andalusia that won't happen either.0 -
The risk of such a debate is that the public conclude that Corbyn hasn't got a clue about anything, and that Theresa May has and it's a lousy deal.
Lose - lose0 -
Stockholm Syndrome.IanB2 said:First, Britain’s experience “has shown how complicated leaving is. Second, Brexit has boosted popular support for the EU.” October’s Eurobarometer survey shows that 68% of respondents feel their country benefits from EU membership, the highest level since 1983, while 66% – a majority in every state – said they would vote to remain in any exit referendum.
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They are indivisible in the sense we will give up some freedom of movement of goods and services (and the CU) to get the EU to give up some freedom of movementwilliamglenn said:
The declaration is like the December agreement all over again. It asserts that the four freedoms are indivisible. Once you combine that with the backstop it's a strong pointer towards a long-term BINO outcome, but done in a way that allows people who think it means something else to claim victory.Casino_Royale said:She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.0 -
I am in regular contact with Geoff. He's as staunch as he's ever been.IanB2 said:
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
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Lol. Desperate stuff.williamglenn said:
The declaration is like the December agreement all over again. It asserts that the four freedoms are indivisible. Once you combine that with the backstop it's a strong pointer towards a long-term BINO outcome, but done in a way that allows people who think it means something else to claim victory.Casino_Royale said:She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.0 -
Why not Corbyn. He is as divided as conservatives and he is the leader of the opposition who have a big say in thisYorkcity said:
In reality as it always has been , it is an internal conservative dog fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it
May should debate with Jacob.
Put it on BBC 3 , so not to interrupt any one else.0 -
Untruetpfkar said:The risk of such a debate is that the public conclude that Corbyn hasn't got a clue about anything, and that Theresa May has and it's a lousy deal.
Lose - lose
Everyone already knows, even Labour voters know that Corbyn is an empty vessel and knows jack shit about anything. All he ever uses is left wing rhetoric.0 -
More to the point he has already said that his party will vote against the deal which may/will consign it to defeat. He should be held accountable for that decision on such an important issue for the country as a whole.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why not Corbyn. He is as divided as conservatives and he is the leader of the opposition who have a big say in thisYorkcity said:
In reality as it always has been , it is an internal conservative dog fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it
May should debate with Jacob.
Put it on BBC 3 , so not to interrupt any one else.0 -
F1: just the one bet. Or two halves, as you like:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2018/11/abu-dhabi-pre-race-2018.html0 -
Third Party Collateral Warranties (e.g. for tenants or funding bodies) are already in use in the construction industry - an Ombudsman will only slow dispute resolution down even more.stodge said:
All fine but if lots of new homes mean lots of problems how can we be sure the new Homes Ombudsman is going to be properly resourced in order to deal with the volume of complaints in a timely and proper manner?HYUFD said:
'Last month, the government announced plans to introduce a New Homes Ombudsman, to help buyers having problems with their newly built property.stodge said:So, we're going to build thousands and thousands of new homes and many of them won't be fit to live in - brilliant:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
Housing Minister Heather Wheeler told 5 Live Investigates: "Where people have problems with their new-build home, builders and warranty providers have a legal and moral obligation to put it right.
"While we develop these plans, we expect the industry to continue to improve the current redress arrangements and ensure properties are consistently of a good standard."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46302905
If it's not properly established, the New Homes Ombudsman becomes another political gimmick, a meaningless waste of public money.0 -
On topic the optics of this sound like a horrible idea for TMay. Corbyn should bite her hand off. Corbyn can pick up on a few nice, easy-to-understand criticisms with some basis in truth. You can't defend against those with detailed knowledge of the minutiae. I wonder if the point is less to win the debate than to set up Corbyn as the opposition instead of her own party, to help put pressure on them to work with her against the enemy.0
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Will we though? That's still an open question.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They are indivisible in the sense we will give up some freedom of movement of goods and services (and the CU) to get the EU to give up some freedom of movementwilliamglenn said:
The declaration is like the December agreement all over again. It asserts that the four freedoms are indivisible. Once you combine that with the backstop it's a strong pointer towards a long-term BINO outcome, but done in a way that allows people who think it means something else to claim victory.Casino_Royale said:She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.0 -
Nuke Madrid, I mean what’s the bloody point of Trident ?
But let us take a few moments to laugh at the 823 Gibraltarans that voted to Leave.
On topic May should debate the Eunuchs of the ERG.0 -
The question is "some", no UK prime minister is going to give up freedom of movement without folding and going to EEA. There's just no point.williamglenn said:
Will we though? That's still an open question.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They are indivisible in the sense we will give up some freedom of movement of goods and services (and the CU) to get the EU to give up some freedom of movementwilliamglenn said:
The declaration is like the December agreement all over again. It asserts that the four freedoms are indivisible. Once you combine that with the backstop it's a strong pointer towards a long-term BINO outcome, but done in a way that allows people who think it means something else to claim victory.Casino_Royale said:She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.0 -
Why? An Association Agreement that includes the full single market and customs union is arguably a superior framework because it's better able to accommodate all the non-economic aspects of the relationship. We can also claim that we "forced" the EU to concede a bespoke deal.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The question is "some", no UK prime minister is going to give up freedom of movement without folding and going to EEA. There's just no point.williamglenn said:
Will we though? That's still an open question.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They are indivisible in the sense we will give up some freedom of movement of goods and services (and the CU) to get the EU to give up some freedom of movementwilliamglenn said:
The declaration is like the December agreement all over again. It asserts that the four freedoms are indivisible. Once you combine that with the backstop it's a strong pointer towards a long-term BINO outcome, but done in a way that allows people who think it means something else to claim victory.Casino_Royale said:She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.0 -
IF (a big one) the story is true, I reckon the Tories would be counting on Corbyn refusing. As you say, knowledge of the detail isn't the key to winning a public debate - just look how Clegg came unstuck against Farage despite his greater knowledge of how the EU actually benefits Britain.edmundintokyo said:On topic the optics of this sound like a horrible idea for TMay. Corbyn should bite her hand off. Corbyn can pick up on a few nice, easy-to-understand criticisms with some basis in truth. You can't defend against those with detailed knowledge of the minutiae. I wonder if the point is less to win the debate than to set up Corbyn as the opposition instead of her own party, to help put pressure on them to work with her against the enemy.
0 -
Corbyn doesn't have to have read the documents. Brexit has been characterised by people on all sides saying whatever sh*t they think will sound good to their supporters and the public - e.g. “Within minutes of a vote for #Brexit CEO’s would be knocking down Chancellor Merkel’s door. Demanding access to the British market”
Therefore all his team has to do is think up some great soundbites, pray he keeps off the topics of Jews, Israel and Palestine, and get him to hammer the soundbites home.
In this febrile environment, people coming to the table with facts are at a disadvantage, as facts are often inconvenient and difficult, whereas dreams are easy - until you need to implement them.0 -
An EEA but not the EEAwilliamglenn said:
Why? An Association Agreement that includes the full single market and customs union is arguably a superior framework because its better able to accommodate all the non-economic aspects of the relationship. We can also claim that we "forced" the EU to concede a bespoke deal.TheWhiteRabbit said:
The question is "some", no UK prime minister is going to give up freedom of movement without folding and going to EEA. There's just no point.williamglenn said:
Will we though? That's still an open question.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They are indivisible in the sense we will give up some freedom of movement of goods and services (and the CU) to get the EU to give up some freedom of movementwilliamglenn said:
The declaration is like the December agreement all over again. It asserts that the four freedoms are indivisible. Once you combine that with the backstop it's a strong pointer towards a long-term BINO outcome, but done in a way that allows people who think it means something else to claim victory.Casino_Royale said:She needs to mark up and talk about the future political declaration, not the withdrawal agreement.
If she's talking about the latter she will lose.
I can see the case, but it's mostly optics. Lots more work for 'just' the justification of a bespoke deal.0 -
I seem to recall he was one of those who liked to mention the widget hammer, so perhaps his interactiveness had its limitations.CarlottaVance said:
Not necessarily....some of us do interact with people whose views are not identical to our own....IanB2 said:
I certainly wasn't suggesting that. Only noting that as a Leave voter living in Gibraltar he must have mixed in a very narrow social circle.OldKingCole said:
Are you suggesting Leavers are gay?IanB2 said:
He probably got fed up being the only gay in the village.williamglenn said:Whatever happened to Geoff, the Leaver from Gibraltar?
Miserable lot maybe, unable to see where there's a bright future, but surely they're the say mix as the rest of us?0 -
If only we still had copies of Churchill's two letters....?HYUFD said:
The May as Chamberlain comparisons are already starting, Boris clearly thinks he is Churchillmalcolmg said:
The way this lot are negotiating they are likely to get both.IanB2 said:
Maybe we should keep Gibraltar and let Spain have Eastbourne?malcolmg said:
They better start learning Spanish , that is for sure.HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
https://twitter.com/Fr33domF0x/status/1066364218595790848?s=200 -
Wasn't the point that Farage had a greater knowledge of how the EU doesn't benefit Britain?IanB2 said:
IF (a big one) the story is true, I reckon the Tories would be counting on Corbyn refusing. As you say, knowledge of the detail isn't the key to winning a public debate - just look how Clegg came unstuck against Farage despite his greater knowledge of how the EU actually benefits Britain.edmundintokyo said:On topic the optics of this sound like a horrible idea for TMay. Corbyn should bite her hand off. Corbyn can pick up on a few nice, easy-to-understand criticisms with some basis in truth. You can't defend against those with detailed knowledge of the minutiae. I wonder if the point is less to win the debate than to set up Corbyn as the opposition instead of her own party, to help put pressure on them to work with her against the enemy.
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This discussion has been closed.