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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    F1: Ricciardo's first drive in a Red Bull lasts very slightly longer than the length of the pit lane. It came to a smoking halt.

    Still time to fix the reliability issue, but this isn't a good start for Red Bull.
  • Does anyone actually have a link to this bet? It's not under Politics or Specials, that I could find?

    What an @rsepain the Ladbrokes site is to use (and update evidently).
    If you go to Scottish Referendum Betting page and click on 'Other Markets' there's a 'Scottish Currency' sub category, but nothing happens when you click on it. Presumably they'll connect it up to an actual bet sometime this decade.

  • ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    Adding to DavidL's thoughts...

    It's also possible that China is Sui generis. We have never before seen a country of this enormous size and physical/intellectual potential - with such a long history of unified rule - industrialise and "capitalise" its economy so rapidly and dynamically, from an inert, communist standing start.

    The lessons we have learned from other developing nations, even Asian states similar to China, like Japan or South Korea, may NOT be scalable. They may not apply. China might be rewriting the rules, for good or bad.

    Whenever someone says "this time it's different"...
    Nuclear weaponry, thanks to its sheer scale and power, changed the character of warfare. Sometimes size does make things different.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited January 2014

    Neil said:

    Anorak said:

    Off-topic:

    The government's last-minute amendment to the immigration bill will mean there will be three different types of people in the UK:

    1) Non-citizens
    2) Citizens
    3) Citizens-but-if-we-don't-like-you-we'll-make-you-stateless.

    It would not apply to British citizens but could see foreigners who have become naturalised citizens whose conduct is deemed "seriously prejudicial" lose their nationality.
    A really bad move IMHO. Expect the definition of "seriously prejudicial" to be really stretched over time.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25953053
    Oh yuck. If you're a British citizen, you're a British citizen. That should be the end of it.
    That should be the end of it unless you have a backbench rebellion to head off. I loved the reported Lib Dem leadership position - they'll support it because it will only affect a few people. Your rights are in safe hands people!
    What's Labour's position on it? Are they going to vote for this amendment?


    Well I seem to remember them saying they were going to save poor Cammie from his strangely mistrustful backbench tory rebels before today.
    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 1h

    Tory MP Dominic Raab tells me he believes his "rebel" motion on Immigration Bill cd be passed if Labour abstain.
    We shall see.


  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.

    That's outrageously different to what was in the press release!
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Interesting sketch from Simon Carr on the Energy and Climate Change committee, regardless of your views on AGW.

    "These particular MPs are simply not up to it. Climate enthusiasts will be embarrassed by them, and sceptics contemptuous."

    The sooner Tim Yeo, who couldn't recognise a conflict of interest if it came in a brown envelope marked "CONFLICT OF INTEREST", is out of parliament the better, too.

    http://order-order.com/2014/01/30/sketch-unsettling-the-settled-science-of-climate-change/
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    I think it is fair to say there is a trend developing.One possible explanation is that the 3% or so left vote Labour has regained since Blair was kicked into touch has picked up on the less publicised but more important decision to create a budget surplus by further public sector wage cuts and some cuts to already very stretched public services.Those who make their living from working for government might think there is no difference to the Tories.
    Normally,there would be an upspring in Green support but maybe the NHA party will be the gainers this time.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2014
    Interesting fact - the UK has a higher percentage rate of population increase than China, 0.55 vs 0.48 in 2012 for example:

    http://www.photius.com/rankings/population/population_growth_rate_2013_0.html
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    One possible explanation is that the 3% or so left vote Labour has regained since Blair was kicked into touch has picked up on the less publicised but more important decision to create a budget surplus by further public sector wage cuts and some cuts to already very stretched public services.Those who make their living from working for government might think there is no difference to the Tories.
    Normally,there would be an upspring in Green support but maybe the NHA party will be the gainers this time.

    And another possible explanation is that people have noticed that the economy is growing again. Who can say which is more likely?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Interesting sketch from Simon Carr on the Energy and Climate Change committee, regardless of your views on AGW.

    "These particular MPs are simply not up to it. Climate enthusiasts will be embarrassed by them, and sceptics contemptuous."

    The sooner Tim Yeo, who couldn't recognise a conflict of interest if it came in a brown envelope marked "CONFLICT OF INTEREST", is out of parliament the better, too.

    http://order-order.com/2014/01/30/sketch-unsettling-the-settled-science-of-climate-change/

    Agree !
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.

    That's outrageously different to what was in the press release!
    And the spin given on here. No bet !
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited January 2014
    steve hawkes ‏@steve_hawkes 1h

    If Dominic Raab's amendment is heard in the Immigration Bill we'll get a strange thing -Labour voting WITH the Tory front bench
    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side?

    *chortle*
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    Neil said:

    ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.

    That's outrageously different to what was in the press release!
    I will offer 1/33.

    But - as with Ladbrokes - you have to give me the money.

    (I don't actually think there is even a 3% chance that Scotland will be using another currency in two years time. It's just that lending me money at 1.5%/year sounds like a good deal. For me.)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.

    That's outrageously different to what was in the press release!
    And the spin given on here. No bet !
    It wasnt spin - it was just taking the wording in the press release at face value.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    DH suggesting that the new Labour leadership methodology will disenfranchise MPs

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100257403/ed-milibands-trade-union-reforms-arent-a-loosening-of-control-theyre-a-power-grab/

    "So when the MPs' voting rights are removed, an electoral college currently made up of MPs, members and trade unionists is effectively going to be replaced by an electoral college of members and trade unionists. The unions had a third of the votes for leader. Now they’re basically going to have half. "
  • WRT the changes in approval rating, the raw data can be found here:

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hz6ysdf7yz/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Approval-270114.pdf

    Some time ago, I ripped out all the data from election to *a* date in June, but my excel skills are struggling a bit with it.

    But it is there, and an appropriate graph would be quite interesting.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Tissue_Price,

    "Interesting sketch from Simon Carr on the Energy and Climate Change committee, regardless of your views on AGW."

    And slightly worrying. Anyone who says "the science is settled." knows absolutely nothing about science.

    The models do not predict very well. Until they do, I'll stick to sitting on the fence. And I'll admit I may be proved wrong ... or right.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting fact - the UK has a higher percentage rate of population increase than China, 0.55 vs 0.48 in 2012 for example:

    http://www.photius.com/rankings/population/population_growth_rate_2013_0.html

    1. China has had the one child policy. And, in Beijing province, the TFR was a spectacularly low 0.65. (That is, each woman, over the course of her child bearing years, is averaging just 0.65 births. You need 2.1 to keep the population stable.)

    2. We have more immigration than China.

    3. On the other hand, life expectancy is rising quite quickly in China. That said, Chinese working age population is about to start declining. While I don't want to be a Cassandra on China, it's quite hard to keep growing your economy hard, when the number of workers is in absolute decline.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Mr. Divvie, ah, right. Thanks nevertheless.

    As it happens, the wild divergence between the terms on offer and the media report means I won't be betting on it.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.

    Neil said:

    That's outrageously different to what was in the press release!

    Ladbrokes: Scotland 1/100 to enter currency union - 50/1 not to

    Ladbrokes press release

    Scotland certs for currency union

    Scotland are a racing certainty to form a currency union should they vote 'yes' to independence, according to Ladbrokes.

    The book is now open on the prospects of the formation of the union, should Scotland break away from the rest of the UK and it's a near-certainty at 1/100 that they keep sterling, with 50/1 the price that any other currency, including the Euro, is used.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.

    That's outrageously different to what was in the press release!
    And the spin given on here. No bet !
    It wasnt spin - it was just taking the wording in the press release at face value.
    Yes - the headline didn't match the substance - I'm not singling you out as an offender.

    Almost like shadsy released a press release to take advantage of free publicity ?
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    edited January 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting fact - the UK has a higher percentage rate of population increase than China, 0.55 vs 0.48 in 2012 for example:

    http://www.photius.com/rankings/population/population_growth_rate_2013_0.html

    Some fascinating tidbits in that table. South Africa's population is going DOWN? Why? White emigration? Seems hard to believe.

    And what's so horrible about the Cook Islands? Ae they all drunk and moving to New Zealand?

    Meanwhile, Christmas Island has the daftest flag

    http://www.mrflag.com/content/uploads/2013/02/Christmas-Island.png

    With Cote d'Ivoire the most startlingly unoriginal-and-like-Ireland's:

    http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/flags/countrys/zzzflags/cilarge.gif
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,751
    Mea cupla first.I thought GDP would be around 0.4,so got it wrong there.

    Balls has gone insane to wanting to copy the Tory playbook when poll after poll has shown that people are becoming less interested in the deficit.It could be a strategic move to ward off attacks but I cannot see the left wingers pleased by this move.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    ** Betting (non)-post **

    Sadly, Shadsy hasn't after all lost his marbles. The bet is not as reported. Instead it is:

    Scottish Currency

    Scotland to still be using GBP on Jan 1st 2016: 1/100
    Scotland to be using a different currency on Jan 1st 2016: 50/1


    No bet.

    That's outrageously different to what was in the press release!
    And the spin given on here. No bet !
    It wasnt spin - it was just taking the wording in the press release at face value.
    Yes - the headline didn't match the substance - I'm not singling you out as an offender.

    Almost like shadsy released a press release to take advantage of free publicity ?
    Labrokes would have had the same publicity if they put out a press release that actually matched the bet they were offering! I mean they're basically offering odds on Scotland changing currency *before* independence. 50,000/1 wouldnt be value.
  • TGOHF said:


    And the spin given on here. No bet !

    You certainly did your best.

  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    I think the narrowing of the polls is entirely due to Ed Balls being on the television a lot in the past few days. The same effect is often seen when Ed Miliband is touring the studios.

    They are both going to be on TV a lot during the general election campaign
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Only Connect: there was a reasonable attempt made to get a pb.com team together to apply for a previous series, but I think nothing came of it in the end. A team of 3 is needed - however I can't be a part of it as I've been on the show before. It's great fun and I'm sure with the quality of minds on here a very competitive team could be formed.

    http://www.victoriacoren.com/main/blog/archive/come_along_to_only_connect
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/shows/beonashow/only_connect10
  • China's going to get old before it gets rich. Demographics is destiny.

    They'll continue to grow and will overtake the USA in absolute GDP but average Chinese living standards will not. (Non-average standards in the big cities for the well connected already are way ahead of the US average).

    Another point not so often talked about is: Who benefits from China's growth? Erm...London, Vancouver, New York, etc. The very rich are leaving in droves because they can and have squirreled away trillions overseas. The chinese boom manifests itself not in their rural poor doing spectacularly better but in OECD asset prices (esp property) doing spectacularly better.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:


    And the spin given on here. No bet !

    You certainly did your best.

    Worst comeback since Bjorn Borg ?


  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Gildas said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting fact - the UK has a higher percentage rate of population increase than China, 0.55 vs 0.48 in 2012 for example:

    http://www.photius.com/rankings/population/population_growth_rate_2013_0.html

    Some fascinating tidbits in that table. South Africa's population is going DOWN? Why? White emigration? Seems hard to believe.

    And what's so horrible about the Cook Islands? Ae they all drunk and moving to New Zealand?

    Meanwhile, Christmas Island has the daftest flag

    http://www.mrflag.com/content/uploads/2013/02/Christmas-Island.png

    With Cote d'Ivoire the most startlingly unoriginal-and-like-Ireland's:

    http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/flags/countrys/zzzflags/cilarge.gif
    Actually I'm a bit sceptical about some of the data in that table, such as Zimbabwe having such a high growth rate. I've seen other sources of information putting it much lower due to the situation there.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    F1: Schumacher's being brought out of his coma.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    SO,

    Where should you live survey... I got Liverpool and the worrying thing is that I do live on the outskirts.

    Must be wrong!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212
    AndyJS said:

    Gildas said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting fact - the UK has a higher percentage rate of population increase than China, 0.55 vs 0.48 in 2012 for example:

    http://www.photius.com/rankings/population/population_growth_rate_2013_0.html

    Some fascinating tidbits in that table. South Africa's population is going DOWN? Why? White emigration? Seems hard to believe.

    And what's so horrible about the Cook Islands? Ae they all drunk and moving to New Zealand?

    Meanwhile, Christmas Island has the daftest flag

    http://www.mrflag.com/content/uploads/2013/02/Christmas-Island.png

    With Cote d'Ivoire the most startlingly unoriginal-and-like-Ireland's:

    http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/flags/countrys/zzzflags/cilarge.gif
    Actually I'm a bit sceptical about some of the data in that table, such as Zimbabwe having such a high growth rate. I've seen other sources of information putting it much lower due to the situation there.
    Zimbabwe might have a very growth rate, but it's very much a dead cat bounce.

    GDP per head probably fell by 75% after 2000. If it recovers by 20% in one year, that still leads it far lower than it was.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    AndyJS said:
    The scary bit about that article was this "The world's biggest national population rose by 6.7 million in 2013 to 1.361 billion, excluding Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan, the National Bureau of Statistics said. Almost 118 boys were born for every 100 girls."
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    No wonder the Chinese authorities are desperately reversing the one child policy with the working population dropping by nearly 2.5 million in the last year.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    AndyJS said:
    AndyJS said:
    In the long run the decline in the working age population is a nightmare for the Chinese which is no doubt why they are reversing the one child policy and preparing to raise retirement age.

    In the short to medium term it is trivial as there are STILL 650 million Chinese peasants, yet to be urbanised. I kid you not, there are still 650 million potential recruits for the factories, out there in the paddy fields.

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/rural-population-wb-data.html

    And one hundred million of these are still in total poverty: a huge army of potential workers.


    http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/chinas-war-against-poverty/

    Again, it's the sheer size of China that confounds.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,741
    As has been said on here several times before Simon Carr is simply far too good to be earning his crust on Guido. I really don't understand why the Guardian has not picked him up. They would double their number of contributors and hits almost daily as the guardianistas frothed.

    As a broader illustration of the limitations of our select committee system it would be hard to improve upon. Stupid people asking stupid questions so they can write a stupid report. Where is the benefit in that? And for the avoidance of doubt the "skeptics" selected may have all been loons for all I know and for all we will ever know.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,314

    Only Connect: there was a reasonable attempt made to get a pb.com team together to apply for a previous series, but I think nothing came of it in the end. A team of 3 is needed - however I can't be a part of it as I've been on the show before. It's great fun and I'm sure with the quality of minds on here a very competitive team could be formed.

    http://www.victoriacoren.com/main/blog/archive/come_along_to_only_connect
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/shows/beonashow/only_connect10

    Did you win? ;-)

    Mrs J and I have said in the past we'd be tempted to go on, and we seem to do quite well in the early stages, before the questions get harder. But that's sitting at home and not a studio situation.

    Also, isn't it an advantage for the team to know each other well beforehand?

    SO: I was London. Which is strange, as I picked 'outdoorsy'.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,725
    Mr. F, when I was at school or university (forget which) Zimbabwe actually had a lower life expectancy than Europe in the Middle Ages. It was barely above 30 for both genders due to Mugabe's combination of sky-high AIDS infection rates and innovative approach to farming methods (ie getting rid of all the nasty white men who actually knew how to farm and replacing them with black thugs with machetes who, er, didn't) leading to widespread famine.

    Improving from a life expectancy of 32, interest rates of 65,000% and inflation measured in millions isn't hard.

    The fact that, reportedly, the South African Question Time had audience support for copying Mugabe's deranged, racist approach to farming and land was deeply worrying (yet, frankly, not hugely surprising).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,851
    edited January 2014
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:


    And the spin given on here. No bet !

    You certainly did your best.

    Worst comeback since Bjorn Borg ?


    I think you've comfortably managed that, 'dollarisation' boy. Jim Davidson obviously an inspiration in oh so many ways.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:
    The scary bit about that article was this "The world's biggest national population rose by 6.7 million in 2013 to 1.361 billion, excluding Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan, the National Bureau of Statistics said. Almost 118 boys were born for every 100 girls."
    The scary thing is that's the rate after 3 years of decline! The natural ratio is about 106.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    Scotland won't even be independent if my thinking is correct by January 1st 2016. Of course they will still have the pound at that point. Stretch the bet to Jan 1st 2018 and it might be worthwhile at 50-1.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Only Connect: there was a reasonable attempt made to get a pb.com team together to apply for a previous series, but I think nothing came of it in the end. A team of 3 is needed - however I can't be a part of it as I've been on the show before. It's great fun and I'm sure with the quality of minds on here a very competitive team could be formed.

    http://www.victoriacoren.com/main/blog/archive/come_along_to_only_connect
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/shows/beonashow/only_connect10

    Did you win? ;-)

    Mrs J and I have said in the past we'd be tempted to go on, and we seem to do quite well in the early stages, before the questions get harder. But that's sitting at home and not a studio situation.

    Also, isn't it an advantage for the team to know each other well beforehand?

    SO: I was London. Which is strange, as I picked 'outdoorsy'.
    Haha, love that show. My best moment watching at home was a round 1 question to which the first clue was "Combined English Universities". I would have buzzed then, as, I think, some other pbers would have...
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    CD13 said:

    SO,

    Where should you live survey... I got Liverpool and the worrying thing is that I do live on the outskirts.

    Must be wrong!

    I got Liverpool too... Maybe I should return home?
    Nah.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,314
    Grandiose said:

    Only Connect: there was a reasonable attempt made to get a pb.com team together to apply for a previous series, but I think nothing came of it in the end. A team of 3 is needed - however I can't be a part of it as I've been on the show before. It's great fun and I'm sure with the quality of minds on here a very competitive team could be formed.

    http://www.victoriacoren.com/main/blog/archive/come_along_to_only_connect
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/shows/beonashow/only_connect10

    Did you win? ;-)

    Mrs J and I have said in the past we'd be tempted to go on, and we seem to do quite well in the early stages, before the questions get harder. But that's sitting at home and not a studio situation.

    Also, isn't it an advantage for the team to know each other well beforehand?

    SO: I was London. Which is strange, as I picked 'outdoorsy'.
    Haha, love that show. My best moment watching at home was a round 1 question to which the first clue was "Combined English Universities". I would have buzzed then, as, I think, some other pbers would have...
    My favourite was in the first round, where the first clue was 'Immelman'. Both the contestant and I shouted 'aerobatics' and got five points. ;-)
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    AndyJS said:

    No wonder the Chinese authorities are desperately reversing the one child policy with the working population dropping by nearly 2.5 million in the last year.

    See my post upthread. It's a ludicrous point if it ignores the vast Chinese rural population. When it comes to industrialising societies THIS is the crucial stat - how many people are still out there, waiting to walk into factories, off the fields.

    Maybe 100 million Chinese are still on a dollar a day.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212

    Mr. F, when I was at school or university (forget which) Zimbabwe actually had a lower life expectancy than Europe in the Middle Ages. It was barely above 30 for both genders due to Mugabe's combination of sky-high AIDS infection rates and innovative approach to farming methods (ie getting rid of all the nasty white men who actually knew how to farm and replacing them with black thugs with machetes who, er, didn't) leading to widespread famine.

    Improving from a life expectancy of 32, interest rates of 65,000% and inflation measured in millions isn't hard.

    The fact that, reportedly, the South African Question Time had audience support for copying Mugabe's deranged, racist approach to farming and land was deeply worrying (yet, frankly, not hugely surprising).

    It's disturbing that there are many people worldwide who have a lower standard of living than England did in 1400.

  • Mick_Pork said:

    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side? *chortle*

    For as long as Labour claims to support membership of the European Union in principle, the party cannot realistically do anything but oppose an amendment which would vitiate the effect of s. 2 of the European Communities Act 1972.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Did you win? ;-)

    ...

    Also, isn't it an advantage for the team to know each other well beforehand?

    Well, yes ;-) Knowing each other beforehand is not essential but probably a bit of an advantage, though if & when you'd got past the audition I reckon everyone would be sufficiently up to speed on each other's strengths and weaknesses.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    Sean_F said:

    Mr. F, when I was at school or university (forget which) Zimbabwe actually had a lower life expectancy than Europe in the Middle Ages. It was barely above 30 for both genders due to Mugabe's combination of sky-high AIDS infection rates and innovative approach to farming methods (ie getting rid of all the nasty white men who actually knew how to farm and replacing them with black thugs with machetes who, er, didn't) leading to widespread famine.

    Improving from a life expectancy of 32, interest rates of 65,000% and inflation measured in millions isn't hard.

    The fact that, reportedly, the South African Question Time had audience support for copying Mugabe's deranged, racist approach to farming and land was deeply worrying (yet, frankly, not hugely surprising).

    It's disturbing that there are many people worldwide who have a lower standard of living than England did in 1400.

    On a recent trip to Africa I saw many villages without electricity or running water, where the people lived in mud huts, with beaten earth floors and straw roofs. Pigs, chickens and naked toddlers all ran around together.

    Essentially, it was Anglo-Saxon England, with better weather.

    I kind of knew these impoverished places existed - I've seen them before - yet every time you see them it is a total, physical shock.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,983
    edited January 2014
    Gildas said:

    AndyJS said:

    No wonder the Chinese authorities are desperately reversing the one child policy with the working population dropping by nearly 2.5 million in the last year.

    See my post upthread. It's a ludicrous point if it ignores the vast Chinese rural population. When it comes to industrialising societies THIS is the crucial stat - how many people are still out there, waiting to walk into factories, off the fields.

    Maybe 100 million Chinese are still on a dollar a day.

    The number of people leaving the countryside to go to the cities is now in decline.

    Worse, the age profile of your remaining peasants is not encouraging. Median rural age is 47; urban is 31.

    The bulk of the young, ambitious workers have already gone.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    isam said:
    London too! Yay.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,741

    Mick_Pork said:

    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side? *chortle*

    For as long as Labour claims to support membership of the European Union in principle, the party cannot realistically do anything but oppose an amendment which would vitiate the effect of s. 2 of the European Communities Act 1972.

    And nor can anyone else on the sane side of the argument. If Parliament was of a mind to pass such a law it would simply be overruled by the UK Courts applying clear ECJ jurisprudence, not to mention Factortame.

    The stupidity of these rebels is deeply and profoundly depressing.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2014
    If Knox is found guilty and the US refuses to extradite her, it'll be interesting to see what happens the next time the US attempts to extradite a suspect from Italy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,212
    DavidL said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side? *chortle*

    For as long as Labour claims to support membership of the European Union in principle, the party cannot realistically do anything but oppose an amendment which would vitiate the effect of s. 2 of the European Communities Act 1972.

    And nor can anyone else on the sane side of the argument. If Parliament was of a mind to pass such a law it would simply be overruled by the UK Courts applying clear ECJ jurisprudence, not to mention Factortame.

    The stupidity of these rebels is deeply and profoundly depressing.
    I doubt if most rebels wish to remain in the EU.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    DavidL said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side? *chortle*

    For as long as Labour claims to support membership of the European Union in principle, the party cannot realistically do anything but oppose an amendment which would vitiate the effect of s. 2 of the European Communities Act 1972.

    And nor can anyone else on the sane side of the argument. If Parliament was of a mind to pass such a law it would simply be overruled by the UK Courts applying clear ECJ jurisprudence, not to mention Factortame.

    The stupidity of these rebels is deeply and profoundly depressing.
    [Ignoring for now that fact that a number of these rebels might individually be described as quite stupid on various other measures] is it really a stupid tactic? If your aim is to destroy UK participation in the EU, then securing a Parliamentary vote in support of a measure which is contrary to EU law is a great PR move. The bit where you get to point to yet another decision by the evil unelected eurocrats to reverse the sovereign will of our great Parliament (extend as nauseum) is another propaganda win to argue that we have no option but to leave the EU.

    I mean, personally I believe that leaving the EU is stupid as an aspiration, but I'm assuming that the majority of the rebels would disagree with that in the strongest possible terms.
  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    rcs1000 said:

    Gildas said:

    AndyJS said:

    No wonder the Chinese authorities are desperately reversing the one child policy with the working population dropping by nearly 2.5 million in the last year.

    See my post upthread. It's a ludicrous point if it ignores the vast Chinese rural population. When it comes to industrialising societies THIS is the crucial stat - how many people are still out there, waiting to walk into factories, off the fields.

    Maybe 100 million Chinese are still on a dollar a day.

    The number of people leaving the countryside to go to the cities is now in decline.

    Worse, the age profile of your remaining peasants is not encouraging. Median rural age is 47; urban is 31.

    The bulk of the young, ambitious workers have already gone.
    Can you do maths? The number leaving the country to go to the city is in decline but there are still millions - literally HUNDREDS of millions - who can make that journey. So the decline in potential working age population may be happening, and will become critical eventually - but in reality it won't affect Chinese industry for another two decades, as they can still import hayseeds from the paddies.

    The working age thing will be a problem for China - a BIIIIIG problem - by about 2030-2035, if they haven't fixed it by then, by paying women to have kids or turning old people into diesel fuel. Or, of course, they induce the Chinese diaspora to return.

    America's rural population is 16%. China's is 48%. That's how much spare potential they have, still.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034

    WRT the changes in approval rating, the raw data can be found here:

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/hz6ysdf7yz/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Approval-270114.pdf

    Some time ago, I ripped out all the data from election to *a* date in June, but my excel skills are struggling a bit with it.

    But it is there, and an appropriate graph would be quite interesting.

    http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg190/Pulpstar/app.png
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    edited January 2014
    I got the big smoke too, though I am nowhere near it
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited January 2014
    There is a common view that a significant part of past voters for the Lib Dems are NOTA. It is therefore plausible that these are a large part of the LD 2010's that initially shifted to Lab after the GE. With the rise of UKIP they are now clearly seen as an alternative NOTA home. If the UKIP GE 2015 is boosted by these voters, then the talk about the Con's needing UKIP under 5% or 6% etc may not be as clear cut a fact.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,741
    edited January 2014
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side? *chortle*

    For as long as Labour claims to support membership of the European Union in principle, the party cannot realistically do anything but oppose an amendment which would vitiate the effect of s. 2 of the European Communities Act 1972.

    And nor can anyone else on the sane side of the argument. If Parliament was of a mind to pass such a law it would simply be overruled by the UK Courts applying clear ECJ jurisprudence, not to mention Factortame.

    The stupidity of these rebels is deeply and profoundly depressing.
    I doubt if most rebels wish to remain in the EU.
    You can only hope that they remain back bench MPs and are never elected to anything important like, say, the mangement committee of their local golf club. Whilst you are in the Club you are bound by its' rules. It really isn't that hard.

    And as for Polruan's point it would be British judges who would have to rule that the legislation was incompatible with EU law and not enforceable, not those nasty foreign ones.

    Of course many of the rebels probably think British judges with their ridiculous insistence on implementing the Human Rights laws in the way that Parliament directed (that is having regard to the ECtHR jurisprudence) are just as bad anyway.



  • GildasGildas Posts: 92
    Relatedly, this is nice. An American international relations scholar on China V USA:

    "In characteristically blunt fashion, Mearsheimer said that he hopes that China’s economy falters or collapses, as this would eliminate a potentially immense security threat for the United States and its allies"


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-29/us-china-rivalry-more-dangerous-cold-war

    So this agreeable old chap wants the process that has lifted 500m Chinese out of poverty to be stopped, and hopefully reversed. Bless.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "America's rural population is 16%. China's is 48%. That's how much spare potential they have, still."

    For that to be true doesn't it also require big changes agricultural methods, which in turn requires investment and education and, I would guess, changes in property rights?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,034
    @Bannedinparis Your graph Sir :)
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,695
    The YouGov average Lab lead in its last week of December polling was actually 6.0%, not 4.8% as shown in the graph.
  • Pulpstar said:

    @Bannedinparis Your graph Sir :)

    Thanks.



  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Hugh said:

    There is a common view that a significant part of past voters for the Lib Dems are NOTA. It is therefore plausible that these are a large part of the LD 2010's that initially shifted to Lab after the GE. With the rise of UKIP they are now clearly seen as an alternative NOTA home. If the UKIP GE 2015 is boosted by these voters, then the talk about the Con's needing UKIP under 5% or 6% etc may not be as clear cut a fact.

    That makes no sense. If they were None Of The Above voters, why did they shift to One Of The Above?
    NOTA in the sense that you object to some of the policies of all plausibly electable parties, so you vote for someone who doesn't have a realistic chance of doing more than moderating the policies of a senior coalition party. And of course it's much easier for a party in that position to be against a wide range of things, including simultaneously holding many contradictory oppositions.

    The LDs could probably have held onto their NOTA status if they'd not rolled over quite so enthusiastically on things that they explicitly opposed, or that weren't in the Conservative manifesto - it would still have been a workable full-term coalition, and they could have maintained their image as a safe protest vote. As it is, they will be seen as fully signed-up OOTAs now.

    While UKIP have good NOTA qualifications, I'm still not convinced that much shift from LD to UKIP is plausible - the stereotype of a UKIP voter has a list of things that are awful about modern Britain which they'd like to oppose; the stereotype LD voter thinks that the government has done too little to support those things.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Edinburgh for me. I actually live (quite happily) in Acton, West London
  • DavidL said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side? *chortle*

    For as long as Labour claims to support membership of the European Union in principle, the party cannot realistically do anything but oppose an amendment which would vitiate the effect of s. 2 of the European Communities Act 1972.

    And nor can anyone else on the sane side of the argument. If Parliament was of a mind to pass such a law it would simply be overruled by the UK Courts applying clear ECJ jurisprudence, not to mention Factortame.

    The stupidity of these rebels is deeply and profoundly depressing.
    The move would certainly be illegal under EU "law", but EU law in the UK only has effect as a result of primary legislation (see s. 18 of the European Union Act 2011). Remember that Factortame did not involve a deliberate attempt to ignore EC law, indeed quite the reverse. Furthermore, the case explicitly endorsed the sovereignty of Parliament. If the amendments passed tonight, the courts in this jurisdiction would be obliged to give effect to the settled will of Parliament.
  • I got London. I think it was choosing Sherlock wot dunnit.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Gildas said:

    AndyJS said:
    AndyJS said:
    In the long run the decline in the working age population is a nightmare for the Chinese which is no doubt why they are reversing the one child policy and preparing to raise retirement age.

    In the short to medium term it is trivial as there are STILL 650 million Chinese peasants, yet to be urbanised. I kid you not, there are still 650 million potential recruits for the factories, out there in the paddy fields.

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/rural-population-wb-data.html

    And one hundred million of these are still in total poverty: a huge army of potential workers.


    http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/chinas-war-against-poverty/

    Again, it's the sheer size of China that confounds.
    Isn't distance from the ports the bottleneck for increased industrialisation of China?
  • Hugh said:

    There is a common view that a significant part of past voters for the Lib Dems are NOTA. It is therefore plausible that these are a large part of the LD 2010's that initially shifted to Lab after the GE. With the rise of UKIP they are now clearly seen as an alternative NOTA home. If the UKIP GE 2015 is boosted by these voters, then the talk about the Con's needing UKIP under 5% or 6% etc may not be as clear cut a fact.

    That makes no sense. If they were None Of The Above voters, why did they shift to One Of The Above?
    NOTA as in none of the Govt. A protest vote. But why do you think voters are leaving Lab to UKIP? What is Lab doing wrong?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited January 2014
    Polruan said:

    Hugh said:

    There is a common view that a significant part of past voters for the Lib Dems are NOTA. It is therefore plausible that these are a large part of the LD 2010's that initially shifted to Lab after the GE. With the rise of UKIP they are now clearly seen as an alternative NOTA home. If the UKIP GE 2015 is boosted by these voters, then the talk about the Con's needing UKIP under 5% or 6% etc may not be as clear cut a fact.

    That makes no sense. If they were None Of The Above voters, why did they shift to One Of The Above?
    ...While UKIP have good NOTA qualifications, I'm still not convinced that much shift from LD to UKIP is plausible - the stereotype of a UKIP voter has a list of things that are awful about modern Britain which they'd like to oppose; the stereotype LD voter thinks that the government has done too little to support those things.
    But in past surveys a significant part of the LD vote wanted out of Europe. I recall reports of it being 30% to 40% of the LD votes.

  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Polruan said:

    Hugh said:

    There is a common view that a significant part of past voters for the Lib Dems are NOTA. It is therefore plausible that these are a large part of the LD 2010's that initially shifted to Lab after the GE. With the rise of UKIP they are now clearly seen as an alternative NOTA home. If the UKIP GE 2015 is boosted by these voters, then the talk about the Con's needing UKIP under 5% or 6% etc may not be as clear cut a fact.

    That makes no sense. If they were None Of The Above voters, why did they shift to One Of The Above?
    ...While UKIP have good NOTA qualifications, I'm still not convinced that much shift from LD to UKIP is plausible - the stereotype of a UKIP voter has a list of things that are awful about modern Britain which they'd like to oppose; the stereotype LD voter thinks that the government has done too little to support those things.
    But in past surveys a significant part of the LD vote wanted out of Europe. I recall reports of it being 30% to 40% of the LD votes.

    I don't remember that particular stat, but I know what you mean. My impression is that the LD support is soft-left/libertarian and not as pro-European as many think it is - although this might also be a stat that shows the low salience of EU membership as a real issue (their voters prefer communitarian and libertarian policies even if it means a view of the EU they disagree with).
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 13 mins
    Mrs May clearly unaware that we all now know Govt will abstain on Raab amendment. Great victory for Doms, defeat for NonDoms #gameon

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    mike Smithson on radio 5 now
  • New Thread
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,741

    DavidL said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    It still appears that little Ed is going to save poor Cammie from his dastardly rebel MPs.

    Perhaps the obsequious Cameroonian spinners can send labour a nice gift for sparing Cammie from his own side? *chortle*

    For as long as Labour claims to support membership of the European Union in principle, the party cannot realistically do anything but oppose an amendment which would vitiate the effect of s. 2 of the European Communities Act 1972.

    And nor can anyone else on the sane side of the argument. If Parliament was of a mind to pass such a law it would simply be overruled by the UK Courts applying clear ECJ jurisprudence, not to mention Factortame.

    The stupidity of these rebels is deeply and profoundly depressing.
    The move would certainly be illegal under EU "law", but EU law in the UK only has effect as a result of primary legislation (see s. 18 of the European Union Act 2011). Remember that Factortame did not involve a deliberate attempt to ignore EC law, indeed quite the reverse. Furthermore, the case explicitly endorsed the sovereignty of Parliament. If the amendments passed tonight, the courts in this jurisdiction would be obliged to give effect to the settled will of Parliament.
    I don't agree. The legislation in Factortame was designed to prevent Spanish fishing boats buying up all of our quota for fish under the Common Fisheries policy at the time. It was effectively contrary to the EEC law on the right to establish businesses elsewhere in the EU because Spanish companies were setting up subsidiaries here to buy the quota and then landing the fish in Spain. It was struck down by the House of Lords on the instruction of the ECJ.

    I do agree that that case made it clear that the UK Parliament remains sovereign to the extent that it is open to Parliament to repeal s2 of the ECA with the result that EU law would no longer be directly applicable. I find s18 a somewhat curious provision and it is not obvious to me what it actually adds to that proposition.

    Because Parliament can repeal by implication the Courts would have to consider whether there was an intention to repeal s2 (and presumably s18) if there was primary legislation directly contrary to EU law. My understanding is that it has been made clear that that would have to be express, especially where it was quite obvious that we remained a part of the EU.

    Without an express reference to the terms of s2 I do not think that the proposed amendment restricting the access rights of Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants would be enforceable or binding on a UK Court. The court would simply infer that Parliament could not have intended to pass legislation that was contrary to EU law.
This discussion has been closed.