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SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited November 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The criminal investigation into Arron Banks/LeaveEU funding won’t stop Brexit but could strengthen TMay’s hand

The big Brexit news today has been has been that the National Crime Agency is investigating Arron Banks and others over suspected offence relating to the funding of the referendum campaign.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited November 2018
    FPT - Any confirmation of this?

    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1058007548203331585
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1058037371529281536
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    rpjs said:

    FPT - Any confirmation of this?

    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1058007548203331585

    They have strange standards - he's of no interest at all to most sensible people.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,905
    rpjs said:

    FPT - Any confirmation of this? https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1058007548203331585

    Also some Twitter activity suggesting he will be referred to the NCA, same as Banks. Not seen any actual confirmation of this from a concrete source yet.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    rpjs said:

    FPT - Any confirmation of this? https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1058007548203331585

    Also some Twitter activity suggesting he will be referred to the NCA, same as Banks. Not seen any actual confirmation of this from a concrete source yet.
    Gotta say if I was him I’d be way more worried at being investigated by the actual FBI, not Britain’s wannabe knock-off.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,905
    rpjs said:

    AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

    rpjs said:

    FPT - Any confirmation of this? https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1058007548203331585

    Also some Twitter activity suggesting he will be referred to the NCA, same as Banks. Not seen any actual confirmation of this from a concrete source yet.
    Gotta say if I was him I’d be way more worried at being investigated by the actual FBI, not Britain’s wannabe knock-off.
    Both are fairly amusing, but the FBI would take him to the cleaners.
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 480
    FPT
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    DavidL said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. L, what's happened?

    The budget sought to delay the already announced restriction for another year. Crouch threatened to resign over it. May is now apparently climbing down because she would lose the vote. So we have gone from bravely facing down the gambling industry to being pathetic to being even more pathetic when called it. As I said, genius!
    In an otherwise good budget how could the treasury not see how bad delaying this measure to help bookies would look.

    Not in touch seems to ring a bell
    Probably because, as I understand it, there is no delay.

    In June there was an Early Day Motion (1440) expressing concern that the stake was not due to be reduced until April 2020. In September Crouch told an all party group that the stake would be reduced "in the financial year starting April 2019". October 2019 is very definitely in that financial year.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1058040038225862657
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    #Awks for the Leavers. Certainly helps build up the Remainer stab in the back myth.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    AlastairMeeks said:

    #Awks for the Leavers. Certainly helps build up the Remainer stab in the back myth.

    Cold under that bridge? No billy goats to eat? :)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1058018804112998400
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1058041001032536069
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,368
    AlastairMeeks said:

    #Awks for the Leavers. Certainly helps build up the Remainer stab in the back myth.

    Counting chickens Mr M? As some of us did over the Tory election expenses not too long ago.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2018
    If you think us remoaners on here are over the top:
    https://twitter.com/Jorvik4/status/1058040845977423877
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Didn’t Vote Leave write to electoral commission and ask if they could go XYZ? And the EC said yes, but we would prefer you to do it as ABC. They then did ABC, which it was decided by a judge that XYZ is how they should have done it and the EC failed to disclose the advice they had given?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    OldKingCole said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    #Awks for the Leavers. Certainly helps build up the Remainer stab in the back myth.

    Counting chickens Mr M? As some of us did over the Tory election expenses not too long ago.
    Not at all. As can be seen from numerous tweets already, ardent Remainers are already seeing this as confirmation of their darkest suspicions. If Messrs Banks and Farage are let off the hook, that will be seen as the connivance of the deep state.

    Their guilt or innocence is completely independent of this effect.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    edited November 2018
    Anorak said:

    If you think us remoaners on here are over the top:
    https://twitter.com/Jorvik4/status/1058040845977423877

    Mm. 700 years. That encompasses Wars of the Roses, Civil War and plague.
    Presumably he means Brexit is the worst thing since the Black Death.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    notme said:

    Didn’t Vote Leave write to electoral commission and ask if they could go XYZ? And the EC said yes, but we would prefer you to do it as ABC. They then did ABC, which it was decided by a judge that XYZ is how they should have done it and the EC failed to disclose the advice they had given?

    That was something else - BeLeave/Darren Grimes etc.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1058045234490363906
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/1058037352814333953
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1058045234490363906
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,368
    dixiedean said:

    Anorak said:

    If you think us remoaners on here are over the top:
    https://twitter.com/Jorvik4/status/1058040845977423877

    Mm. 700 years. That encompasses Wars of the Roses, Civil War and plague.
    Presumably he means Brexit is the worst thing since the Black Death.
    Personally I think the effect of these few years could well be comparable with that of the Civil War.

    Personally, Mr M, I’m becoming alarmed by the prospects on all sorts of sides. That Mr B and Mr F are having to explain themselves to The Plod is unsurprising, although one of the former’s associates was complaining that the EC was composed of Remainers, and, by implication, this was why they were being picked on.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1058045795478499329
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1058046232227209216
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1058046926116003840
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    This investigation is not going to change anyone’s mind.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,205
    Three local by-elections today: a Con defence in Kirklees, and Lab defence in Newham, and a Lib Dem defence in Gloucestershire. Could be no change.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RoyalBlue said:

    This investigation is not going to change anyone’s mind.

    It is going to entrench minds. The more sense that the Brexit vote was illegitimate, the more determined its opponents will be to unravel it.

    Mind you, Leave supporters have done everything they can to ensure that no consensus is going to emerge around Brexit. It's almost as if they want it to fail.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1058048440066887681
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited November 2018
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1058046075125293057
    .
    .
    .
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1058050604130557952
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    AlastairMeeks said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    This investigation is not going to change anyone’s mind.

    It is going to entrench minds. The more sense that the Brexit vote was illegitimate, the more determined its opponents will be to unravel it.

    Mind you, Leave supporters have done everything they can to ensure that no consensus is going to emerge around Brexit. It's almost as if they want it to fail.
    Maybe they do. Some people wanted to give the government a fright but lose by 48/52%, not win by 52/48%.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    OldKingCole said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anorak said:

    If you think us remoaners on here are over the top:
    https://twitter.com/Jorvik4/status/1058040845977423877

    Mm. 700 years. That encompasses Wars of the Roses, Civil War and plague.
    Presumably he means Brexit is the worst thing since the Black Death.
    Personally I think the effect of these few years could well be comparable with that of the Civil War.
    Can we please keep a sense of perspective here? Twice as high a proportion of the population died in the Civil War as died in the First World War. A genocide in Ireland was part of the deal. However bad things get, they will not get that bad.

    The Wars of the Roses might be a more plausible comparison, but the obvious one is the Reformation.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    rural_voter said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    This investigation is not going to change anyone’s mind.

    It is going to entrench minds. The more sense that the Brexit vote was illegitimate, the more determined its opponents will be to unravel it.

    Mind you, Leave supporters have done everything they can to ensure that no consensus is going to emerge around Brexit. It's almost as if they want it to fail.
    Maybe they do. Some people wanted to give the government a fright but lose by 48/52%, not win by 52/48%.
    Leave voter motivations are opaque, so it's easy to paint them to suit one's prejudices.

    Personally, I'm quite happy at present; one wobbles every now and again, but that's natural, I feel.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    Banks has never hidden his Russian connections, indeed his personalised number plate is as unsubtle as a Salisbury architectural tourist.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/ex-mi5-spy-do-mr-and-mrs-banks-have-something-to-tell-us/
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1058046075125293057
    .
    .
    .
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1058050604130557952

    Interesting to read that May has promised to leave NI in the customs territory of a foreign power.

    No wonder a deal is nigh!

  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    Yes, I don't think the cheating swing the vote either. But it would be good to see a few rogues in the dock for a change.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    Anazina said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1058046075125293057
    .
    .
    .
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1058050604130557952

    Interesting to read that May has promised to leave NI in the customs territory of a foreign power.

    No wonder a deal is nigh!

    It is a very generous offer by the EU. NI gets all the benefits of SM and CU, and not paying for it.

  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,641
    ydoethur said:

    OldKingCole said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anorak said:

    If you think us remoaners on here are over the top:
    https://twitter.com/Jorvik4/status/1058040845977423877

    Mm. 700 years. That encompasses Wars of the Roses, Civil War and plague.
    Presumably he means Brexit is the worst thing since the Black Death.
    Personally I think the effect of these few years could well be comparable with that of the Civil War.
    Can we please keep a sense of perspective here? Twice as high a proportion of the population died in the Civil War as died in the First World War. A genocide in Ireland was part of the deal. However bad things get, they will not get that bad.

    The Wars of the Roses might be a more plausible comparison, but the obvious one is the Reformation.
    For some of a Remain persuasion, Brexit truly is The End Of Days. I'm not a vindictive person, but to see the likes of Mad Al Cambell and Andrew Adonis driven insane by it is probably worth a few quid off GDP growth. Obviously, there are just as many Leavers being sent barmy by it too. PB is full of both types.
    (smiley face emoji, lol, etc.)
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1058045795478499329

    It's been shown that an ENORMOUS amount of pressure has to be put on the powers that be to get them to act properly in electoral matters, no matter who the accused are. You could say that Arron Banks is unlucky that finally such an enormous amount of pressure has come to bear. Or you could admit that he's such a d*** that he deserves it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,940
    twistedfirestopper3 said:

    ydoethur said:

    OldKingCole said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anorak said:

    If you think us remoaners on here are over the top:
    https://twitter.com/Jorvik4/status/1058040845977423877

    Mm. 700 years. That encompasses Wars of the Roses, Civil War and plague.
    Presumably he means Brexit is the worst thing since the Black Death.
    Personally I think the effect of these few years could well be comparable with that of the Civil War.
    Can we please keep a sense of perspective here? Twice as high a proportion of the population died in the Civil War as died in the First World War. A genocide in Ireland was part of the deal. However bad things get, they will not get that bad.

    The Wars of the Roses might be a more plausible comparison, but the obvious one is the Reformation.
    For some of a Remain persuasion, Brexit truly is The End Of Days. I'm not a vindictive person, but to see the likes of Mad Al Cambell and Andrew Adonis driven insane by it is probably worth a few quid off GDP growth. Obviously, there are just as many Leavers being sent barmy by it too. PB is full of both types.
    (smiley face emoji, lol, etc.)
    A lot of people need a really long holiday
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    ydoethur said:

    OldKingCole said:

    dixiedean said:

    Anorak said:

    If you think us remoaners on here are over the top:
    https://twitter.com/Jorvik4/status/1058040845977423877

    Mm. 700 years. That encompasses Wars of the Roses, Civil War and plague.
    Presumably he means Brexit is the worst thing since the Black Death.
    Personally I think the effect of these few years could well be comparable with that of the Civil War.
    Can we please keep a sense of perspective here? Twice as high a proportion of the population died in the Civil War as died in the First World War. A genocide in Ireland was part of the deal. However bad things get, they will not get that bad.

    The Wars of the Roses might be a more plausible comparison, but the obvious one is the Reformation.
    But @ydoethur we are talking maybe 3% off GDP here over a dozen years or so. How can you suggest that is not equal to the equivalent of several million dead?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,529
    slade said:

    Three local by-elections today: a Con defence in Kirklees, and Lab defence in Newham, and a Lib Dem defence in Gloucestershire. Could be no change.

    Newham is certainly safe, Gloucestershire probably so. Kirklees could be interesting - a narrowly held Tory marginal.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,194
    Whitehall sources suggest a 'fudged' deal with the EU is close whereby the term 'backstop' would be dropped but there would be a temporary customs arrangement and increased regulatory checks across the Irish Sea details of which would be kept vague for another year.

    It would be presented to the Cabinet as a fair accompli and EU leaders would make clear no further alternatives would be considered. Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey are seen as the Cabinet Ministers most likely to resign afterwards but Gove and Fox are likely to stay



    .https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-no-10-plans-to-push-deal-past-cabinet-as-hopes-rise-of-talks-breakthrough-a3977781.html?amp
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,529
    AlastairMeeks said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    This investigation is not going to change anyone’s mind.

    It is going to entrench minds. The more sense that the Brexit vote was illegitimate, the more determined its opponents will be to unravel it.

    Mind you, Leave supporters have done everything they can to ensure that no consensus is going to emerge around Brexit. It's almost as if they want it to fail.
    I don't think these stories will make much difference pre-Brexit, but they all add fuel to the firestorm as and when people will turn against Brexit, and turn away from the Tories as its midwife.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Foxy said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    Banks has never hidden his Russian connections, indeed his personalised number plate is as unsubtle as a Salisbury architectural tourist.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/ex-mi5-spy-do-mr-and-mrs-banks-have-something-to-tell-us/
    Knowing some russians isnt what he is being investigated for though is it. If he had to defend a charge of say money he donated actually being someone elses money donated via Moldovan banks funnelled into his leave vote vehicle its a bit different.

    We will see in time what is or isnt found. Early days for the public side of this investigation.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,700
    edited November 2018
    slade said:

    Three local by-elections today: a Con defence in Kirklees, and Lab defence in Newham, and a Lib Dem defence in Gloucestershire. Could be no change.

    Denny Dale would fall Labour on a 2% swing since May. The retirement of the 2018 Con councillor is health related and I can't think of any overriding local factors - a 1 week bin strike earlier in the summer, but an all out strike that would totally sink Labour's chances has not yet materialised.

    Con hold probably about 1/3 on what I am aware of.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    edited November 2018
    HYUFD said:

    It would be presented to the Cabinet as a fair accompli and EU leaders would make clear no further alternatives would be considered. Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey are seen as the Cabinet Ministers most likely to resign afterwards but Gove and Fox are likely to stay

    That's just unacceptable.

    We need a deal that gets all four out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,194
    Corbyn adviser Andrew Murray wants Labour to back May's Brexit Deal but has been opposed in the Shadow Cabinet by Diane Abbott.

    A Corbyn spokesman has said the key is whether it commits to 'permanent membership of a customs union'

    http://guerillawire.org/politics/andrew-murray-defining-labours-brexit-strategy/
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    You confuse opinion and scenarios with legal fact.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    Y0kel said:

    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    You confuse opinion and scenarios with legal fact.

    Your evidence for Farage being a traitor is?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn adviser Andrew Murray wants Labour to back May's Brexit Deal but has been opposed in the Shadow Cabinet by Diane Abbott.

    A Corbyn spokesman has said the key is whether it commits to 'permanent membership of a customs union'

    http://guerillawire.org/politics/andrew-murray-defining-labours-brexit-strategy/

    Backing them on tax, backing them on the EU, they're just red Tories aren't they?

    This post was in no way influenced either by my well known ambivalence about the Jezziah or my bet with The White Rabbit.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    Three local by-elections today: a Con defence in Kirklees, and Lab defence in Newham, and a Lib Dem defence in Gloucestershire. Could be no change.

    Denny Dale would fall Labour on a 2% swing since May. The retirement of the 2018 Con councillor is health related and I can't think of any overriding local factors - a 1 week bin strike earlier in the summer, but an all out strike that would totally sink Labour's chances has not yet materialised.

    Con hold probably about 1/3 on what I am aware of.
    Weren't they Barnstoneworth Uniteds rivals?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,205
    Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    Three local by-elections today: a Con defence in Kirklees, and Lab defence in Newham, and a Lib Dem defence in Gloucestershire. Could be no change.

    Denny Dale would fall Labour on a 2% swing since May. The retirement of the 2018 Con councillor is health related and I can't think of any overriding local factors - a 1 week bin strike earlier in the summer, but an all out strike that would totally sink Labour's chances has not yet materialised.

    Con hold probably about 1/3 on what I am aware of.
    I drove through Denby Dale today. As is usual the parties put posters on lamp-posts in Kirklees. In Denby Dale itself it looks even, but the Lib Dems are on top in Skelmanthorpe. The main issue is what effect will a larger Lib Dem vote have on the shares of Con and Labour.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    You confuse opinion and scenarios with legal fact.

    Your evidence for Farage being a traitor is?
    Opinion. You do understand that people have them right?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,274
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    It would be presented to the Cabinet as a fair accompli and EU leaders would make clear no further alternatives would be considered. Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey are seen as the Cabinet Ministers most likely to resign afterwards but Gove and Fox are likely to stay

    That's just unacceptable.

    We need a deal that gets all four out.
    Maybe we are arriving at the point where the ultra brexiteers and the remainers will have to re-calibrate to campaigning to re - join or for a harder brexit, while the rest of us get on with our lives
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Whitehall sources suggest a 'fudged' deal with the EU is close whereby the term 'backstop' would be dropped but there would be a temporary customs arrangement and increased regulatory checks across the Irish Sea details of which would be kept vague for another year.

    It would be presented to the Cabinet as a fair accompli and EU leaders would make clear no further alternatives would be considered. Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey are seen as the Cabinet Ministers most likely to resign afterwards but Gove and Fox are likely to stay



    .https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-no-10-plans-to-push-deal-past-cabinet-as-hopes-rise-of-talks-breakthrough-a3977781.html?amp

    A thorn by any other name ...
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,641
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    It would be presented to the Cabinet as a fair accompli and EU leaders would make clear no further alternatives would be considered. Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey are seen as the Cabinet Ministers most likely to resign afterwards but Gove and Fox are likely to stay

    That's just unacceptable.

    We need a deal that gets all four out.
    Maybe we are arriving at the point where the ultra brexiteers and the remainers will have to re-calibrate to campaigning to re - join or for a harder brexit, while the rest of us get on with our lives
    Maybe drop all arch Remainers and ultra Brexiters in the middle of the desert and nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Then the rest of us can get on with our lives.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,487
    edited November 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    Boo hoo.

    The public elected a pro Remain government in 2015. And the leaflet wasn't covert
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    Y0kel said:

    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    You confuse opinion and scenarios with legal fact.

    Your evidence for Farage being a traitor is?
    Opinion. You do understand that people have them right?
    Fine, I suggest you don't post it alongside a comment relating to an ongoing investigation.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,998
    Freggles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    Boo hoo.

    The public elected a pro Remain government in 2015. And the leaflet wasn't covert
    Oh, well then it will be okay for the government to spend tax payers money keeping Jezza out of Number 10.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    They also taste like shitty powdery chocolate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    Just imagine the uproar if Cadbury decided to bring in a seasonal bar called the Snow Flake.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    They're also one of the nicest things to eat when out and about on a stroll. Better than Marathons or Mrs Bars.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    I’m convinced that the amount of people scanning the internet to deliberately become outraged at PC gone mad exceeds by an order of magnitude those who complained about the political incorrectness in the first place.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,487
    Deleted
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    edited November 2018
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1058046926116003840

    Another balls up budget from Hammond and May?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    They also taste like shitty powdery chocolate.
    Confirming, as every, you have no taste. ;)
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,487
    tlg86 said:

    Freggles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    Boo hoo.

    The public elected a pro Remain government in 2015. And the leaflet wasn't covert
    Oh, well then it will be okay for the government to spend tax payers money keeping Jezza out of Number 10.
    You must not have listened on Monday, as that's what they are doing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1058046926116003840

    Another balls up budget from Hammond and May?
    It hasn't been the same since Clarkson left.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    Anazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    I’m convinced that the amount of people scanning the internet to deliberately become outraged at PC gone mad exceeds by an order of magnitude those who complained about the political incorrectness in the first place.
    'Supposed' political incorrectness'.

    You could rewrite your post as follows:
    "I’m convinced that the amount of people scanning the internet to deliberately become outraged at a crime exceeds by an order of magnitude those who complained about the crime in the first place."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Freggles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Freggles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Y0kel said:

    If you dont know why I've knocked on about the Banksy bankroll and consider Farage a traitor to this country you might be getting a bit more of a picture.

    Having said that, right now its an investigation. There is no evidence a bit more cash swung any votes any more or decided the referendum. Personally i dont think it did.

    The main issue is that those involved with this unofficial vote leave campaign may not merely have broken some electoral accounting laws but perhaps were funded via foreign state operated impermissible sources.

    If such a case emerged from the investigation issue isnt the brexit vote, its colluding with a foreign state. Theres probably a term for it.. ..

    What we do know is that remain was bankrolled by the tax payer. A far greater disgrace in my opinion.

    And by the way, many other posters have been banned for far less.
    Boo hoo.

    The public elected a pro Remain government in 2015. And the leaflet wasn't covert
    Oh, well then it will be okay for the government to spend tax payers money keeping Jezza out of Number 10.
    You must not have listened on Monday, as that's what they are doing.
    Strictly speaking, they're spending borrowed money to keep Jez out of No. 10.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    JosiasJessop said:

    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    They're also one of the nicest things to eat when out and about on a stroll. Better than Marathons or Mrs Bars.
    Having said that, I'm quite partial to Mrs Bars...

    Who needs Solyent Green ...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Anazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    I’m convinced that the amount of people scanning the internet to deliberately become outraged at PC gone mad exceeds by an order of magnitude those who complained about the political incorrectness in the first place.
    Top item in my Facebook feed ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,274
    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    I cannot understand it unless the legal advice was that a judicial challenge by the gambling industry was possible if the notice period was unreasonable
  • saddosaddo Posts: 534
    This is hilarious but equally shows the smelly pond Labour has dropped itself into.

    New Labour blog @LabourHub has run Hitler's 1920 Nazi manifesto as a suggested way forward for Corbyn's labour and nobody noticed. Luckily for us all, @TheRedRoar managed to save the article before it was removed. Here it is in all its glory. For obvious reasons, it doesn't include the manifesto points about the supremacy of the Aryan race, which might have been a bit of a giveaway.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20181022131742/https://labourhub.org.uk/2018/10/22/demands-from-the-grassroots/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,274
    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,300
    rpjs said:

    FPT - Any confirmation of this?

    https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1058007548203331585

    Mr Kipper???
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    To be fair, they are planning to ban it; the ban was just delayed. Why the delay? It's terrible media management and politics.

    You may want to consider who bought in the evil legislation allowing FOBTs ...
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Pulpstar said:

    Anazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    In today's batshit lefty news, Yorkie bars are misogynist gaslighting - or something

    I’m convinced that the amount of people scanning the internet to deliberately become outraged at PC gone mad exceeds by an order of magnitude those who complained about the political incorrectness in the first place.
    Top item in my Facebook feed ;)
    QED
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Good for Tracey Crouch. What an own goal by the government.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,274
    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    You may find that that is not a view widely held by many.

    Tax rises are ok by the public unless they are mine
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    So you won't be voting Labour then?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    ydoethur said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    So you won't be voting Labour then?
    Depends on their manifesto. Right now they're sticking to their commitment not to raise taxes on the bottom 95%. I'm not in the bottom 95% (by income, anyway) so that's not really relevant to me. If they also start voting against tax increases for the top 5% I'd have to reconsider.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    ydoethur said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    So you won't be voting Labour then?
    Ouch! :D
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    You may find that that is not a view widely held by many.

    Tax rises are ok by the public unless they are mine
    I find myself in a very fortunate position in society - as a family we're not 'rich', but probably in a better position than most (*). Our position is that we'd be willing to pay more in taxes, as long as it's well-spent. We're partially in our position because of luck, and the fact we've been careful (i.e. stingy) with money. We don't want our taxes wasting - and wasting doesn't necessarily mean things we agree with - just that it genuinely helps those who need help.

    I bet we're far from alone in this.

    Corbyn's Labour does not offer help to those who genuinely need it - just to those who back their world view.

    (*) Though we are only one bout of cancer or other ill-luck away from a worse position.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    I cannot understand it unless the legal advice was that a judicial challenge by the gambling industry was possible if the notice period was unreasonable
    Who defines reasonable? Can’t the government declare product X illegal tomorrow, I thought Parliament was sovereign? :p
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    Stereotomy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    So you won't be voting Labour then?
    Depends on their manifesto. Right now they're sticking to their commitment not to raise taxes on the bottom 95%. I'm not in the bottom 95% (by income, anyway) so that's not really relevant to me. If they also start voting against tax increases for the top 5% I'd have to reconsider.
    It's how they spend the extra money they raise. Are you convinced it won't just go to those who don't really need it?

    There is real need in society. Corbyn seems blind to this, and instead concentrates on the same peripheries he's been obsessing about for three decades.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    JosiasJessop said:

    Stereotomy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    So you won't be voting Labour then?
    Depends on their manifesto. Right now they're sticking to their commitment not to raise taxes on the bottom 95%. I'm not in the bottom 95% (by income, anyway) so that's not really relevant to me. If they also start voting against tax increases for the top 5% I'd have to reconsider.
    It's how they spend the extra money they raise. Are you convinced it won't just go to those who don't really need it?

    There is real need in society. Corbyn seems blind to this, and instead concentrates on the same peripheries he's been obsessing about for three decades.
    I could never be completely sure that any government would spend their money well. I'd have to wait for the manifesto/campaign to get a better sense of where it'd be going. Out of interest, what do you think is the real need he'd neglect, and the peripheries he'd spend on instead?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,981
    Big_G_NorthWales said:


    You may find that that is not a view widely held by many.

    Tax rises are ok by the public unless they are mine

    I'd pay more in tax to ensure the elderly are treated with dignity and proper care. We all have a responsibility and a duty to ensure older people get to enjoy their latter years and are treated with respect.

    I don't think that can happen when so much care home provision seems to operate more on the basis of the Owners making money than on providing proper care and respect for those being looked after (and that includes paying the staff decent living wages)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,363
    Stereotomy said:

    I could never be completely sure that any government would spend their money well. I'd have to wait for the manifesto/campaign to get a better sense of where it'd be going. Out of interest, what do you think is the real need he'd neglect, and the peripheries he'd spend on instead?

    He'd neglect anyone or anything that doesn't fit into his narrow left-wing, anti-Semitic and terrorist-supporting worldview, however deserved.

    As an example, when MoL, Ken Livingstone with Chavez to get cheap oil from Venezuela. History will show this as being of virtually no benefit to Londoners, and a massive negative to Venezuelans. It helped Chavez and his regime, however.

    Please forgive the Mail link:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3192933/Hugo-Chavez-s-ambassador-daughter-Venezuela-s-richest-woman-according-new-report.html
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,274
    RobD said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    I cannot understand it unless the legal advice was that a judicial challenge by the gambling industry was possible if the notice period was unreasonable
    Who defines reasonable? Can’t the government declare product X illegal tomorrow, I thought Parliament was sovereign? :p
    Of course but it was only a possible suggestion for something that seems so politically inept
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    JosiasJessop said:

    Stereotomy said:

    I could never be completely sure that any government would spend their money well. I'd have to wait for the manifesto/campaign to get a better sense of where it'd be going. Out of interest, what do you think is the real need he'd neglect, and the peripheries he'd spend on instead?

    He'd neglect anyone or anything that doesn't fit into his narrow left-wing, anti-Semitic and terrorist-supporting worldview, however deserved.

    As an example, when MoL, Ken Livingstone with Chavez to get cheap oil from Venezuela. History will show this as being of virtually no benefit to Londoners, and a massive negative to Venezuelans. It helped Chavez and his regime, however.

    Please forgive the Mail link:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3192933/Hugo-Chavez-s-ambassador-daughter-Venezuela-s-richest-woman-according-new-report.html
    What has Ken’s mayoral trip to Venezuela got to do with Corbyn?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,274
    Stereotomy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Stereotomy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Tracey Crouch's resignation is an utterly avoidable fuck-up by the government.

    A question: does anyone actually defend FOBTs?

    (And BTW, it's a shame iSam is not on for this; I had my disagreements with him, but he was bang-on about this at a time it was not generally on the radar.)

    Some pbers were calling the change nanny statery.

    Still, good to know that part of my unnecessary tax cut is being paid by exploiting gambling addicts. That's the warm feeling you get from a Tory government.
    I assume you are going to make a voluntary tax donation to the revenue in respect of your unnecessary tax cut
    No, and I don't expect or ask for anyone else to, either. What I will do is vote for a party who will raise my taxes, at the next available opportunity. The idea that you're not allowed to support a policy that would disadvantage you without first unilaterally inflicting that disadvantage on yourself is bizarre
    So you won't be voting Labour then?
    Depends on their manifesto. Right now they're sticking to their commitment not to raise taxes on the bottom 95%. I'm not in the bottom 95% (by income, anyway) so that's not really relevant to me. If they also start voting against tax increases for the top 5% I'd have to reconsider.
    Seems a large number of labour mps are looking at taxing £50,000 plus earners and of course when that is not enough they will come after the rest
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,700
    slade said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    slade said:

    Three local by-elections today: a Con defence in Kirklees, and Lab defence in Newham, and a Lib Dem defence in Gloucestershire. Could be no change.

    Denny Dale would fall Labour on a 2% swing since May. The retirement of the 2018 Con councillor is health related and I can't think of any overriding local factors - a 1 week bin strike earlier in the summer, but an all out strike that would totally sink Labour's chances has not yet materialised.

    Con hold probably about 1/3 on what I am aware of.
    I drove through Denby Dale today. As is usual the parties put posters on lamp-posts in Kirklees. In Denby Dale itself it looks even, but the Lib Dems are on top in Skelmanthorpe. The main issue is what effect will a larger Lib Dem vote have on the shares of Con and Labour.
    @Slade. One of the joys of this site is there are almost always at least 2 subject matter contributers on any given subject or place. PB is a true Noah's ark of interests. I think we tend to lurk at different times, and I knew of your presence but II don't think I've said hello from the corner of Huddersfield, so "hello"

    I wonder how close the site comes to representing all 650 constituencies?.
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