politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Surely the time’s come for the media to treat Moggsy’s ERG boy
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Surely the time’s come for the media to treat Moggsy’s ERG boys as all piss and wind
One of the problems with letting it be known that you are making threats and repeatedly not followed them through is that after a time people start to twig and cease to take you seriously.
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First?
3.4%?0 -
Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1055430622334906370
https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/10544715609862676480 -
This crossover is potentially significant.0
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For them the most important thing is a change of policy, if one can call it that, not necessarily a change of leader.0
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They'll probably get the letters eventually, and they definitely have enough people to cause trouble, but after so long moaning, whinging, crying, ranting, raving, bleating, frothing, blubbering and so on, it will feel like a let down, an inevitability of time more than a show of strength, and in any case probably far far too late to act if they cared as much as they said they do and have the support they claim they do.
Edit: I clarify this is irrespective of whether their complaints are reasonable or not. They may well be, but their behaviour has been pathetic even if their concerns are valid (not acting even if their numbers are not enough to win, for a start)0 -
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I thought that the reason they have never followed through is that May has always caved to their demands.0
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To some degree, no doubt, but they have been seeking far bigger changes in direction for months now, escalating their rhetoric since the summer, so she clearly has not caved sufficiently.OblitusSumMe said:I thought that the reason they have never followed through is that May has always caved to their demands.
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One thing the ERG have done is completely crowd out UKIP. Strategically they’ve been very useful to the Tories.0
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Agree with the thread header. Journalists should stop being so gullible.0
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No - they would not win a vnoc thereby confirming TM in place for another 12 monthsOblitusSumMe said:I thought that the reason they have never followed through is that May has always caved to their demands.
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May 2018 exit at these prices s the clearest lay I've seen in years.
Long may the Journos keep reporting the ERG threats0 -
Why would they quit on a winning strategy?kle4 said:
To some degree, no doubt, but they have been seeking far bigger changes in direction for months now, escalating their rhetoric since the summer, so she clearly has not caved sufficiently.OblitusSumMe said:I thought that the reason they have never followed through is that May has always caved to their demands.
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More scepticism about the ERG.. very good
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Yes, the Tories own Momentum entryists, but less effective.williamglenn said:One thing the ERG have done is completely crowd out UKIP. Strategically they’ve been very useful to the Tories.
No wonder the kippers have gone all EDL.0 -
The way I see it, if the ERG had the numbers, or even tacit support for a coup, they'd have pulled the trigger by now. That's not to say that they won't have the numbers in the future, but clearly they are all fart and no follow through at the minute.0
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Where's the "confident she'll get a bad deal" option?williamglenn said:This crossover is potentially significant.
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It hasn't worked yet. Nothing is certain yet. Yes, the position May is advocating is clearly not going to get through, but that is not ensuring the ERG, or the bulk of them, will get what they want as a result. It might well result in something much worse, from their perspective.Stereotomy said:
Why would they quit on a winning strategy?kle4 said:
To some degree, no doubt, but they have been seeking far bigger changes in direction for months now, escalating their rhetoric since the summer, so she clearly has not caved sufficiently.OblitusSumMe said:I thought that the reason they have never followed through is that May has always caved to their demands.
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My advice would be: don’t goad them.
It doesn’t help and we need May to stay in post, and the Withdrawal Bill to pass.0 -
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.0 -
Of course a different view would be that although they have strong views as to how the negotiations should proceed they are also loyal and cognisant that there is no guarantee that any replacement of May might be to their liking
The threats are childish and silly but there is room for significant differences of view about what is in the national interest.0 -
We can't know what the end state will be, but so far I'd say it's worked pretty well. They've managed to make it conventional wisdom that May is going for a soft Brexit, which isn't true at allkle4 said:
It hasn't worked yet. Nothing is certain yet. Yes, the position May is advocating is clearly not going to get through, but that is not ensuring the ERG, or the bulk of them, will get what they want as a result. It might well result in something much worse, from their perspective.Stereotomy said:
Why would they quit on a winning strategy?kle4 said:
To some degree, no doubt, but they have been seeking far bigger changes in direction for months now, escalating their rhetoric since the summer, so she clearly has not caved sufficiently.OblitusSumMe said:I thought that the reason they have never followed through is that May has always caved to their demands.
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NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
The Poppy thing, I can just about understand- the red poppy is an iconic symbol in this country, and if you don't want to wear one, that's perfectly acceptable but the white poppy just seems a bit meh! to me.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1055430622334906370
https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/1054471560986267648
The Saudi thing is just plain bonkers, and I thought Mercer was supposed to be a great hope for the Tories!0 -
It’s pathetic. Of course it is the same excuse we use every time we decide to bomb something.NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.0 -
Very few real journalists around, opinion writers are more prized as they get the punters involved in (and buying) the papers/visiting the websites, reading the clickbait, buying from the advertsrkrkrk said:Agree with the thread header. Journalists should stop being so gullible.
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Caroline Flint says upto 45 labour mps could support the dealkle4 said:
It hasn't worked yet. Nothing is certain yet. Yes, the position May is advocating is clearly not going to get through, but that is not ensuring the ERG, or the bulk of them, will get what they want as a result. It might well result in something much worse, from their perspective.Stereotomy said:
Why would they quit on a winning strategy?kle4 said:
To some degree, no doubt, but they have been seeking far bigger changes in direction for months now, escalating their rhetoric since the summer, so she clearly has not caved sufficiently.OblitusSumMe said:I thought that the reason they have never followed through is that May has always caved to their demands.
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Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
It's the FPTP voting system which crowded out UKIP not the ERGwilliamglenn said:One thing the ERG have done is completely crowd out UKIP. Strategically they’ve been very useful to the Tories.
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Opinion polls aren’t FPTP.David_Evershed said:
It's the FPTP voting system which crowded out UKIP not the ERGwilliamglenn said:One thing the ERG have done is completely crowd out UKIP. Strategically they’ve been very useful to the Tories.
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Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
Oh come on, they are politicians...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
I think the key word here is "reasonable". Some Conservatives would vote for a deal consisting of fish and chips wrapped in the Brussels evening newspaper but on the assumption we'll get something rather sweeter (and fudge like) there'll be enough for most people to grudgingly give support.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
Given the alternatives seem to be another Referendum, Jeremy Corbyn, famine & pestilence on a biblical level and, worst of all, falling house prices, I can understand why the mood might be to accept whatever thin gruel is served up.0 -
The nutty or venal nature of the few that made it through to election didnt help any.David_Evershed said:
It's the FPTP voting system which crowded out UKIP not the ERGwilliamglenn said:One thing the ERG have done is completely crowd out UKIP. Strategically they’ve been very useful to the Tories.
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I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
In Macau several years ago there was a spate of gangster related shootings. The police chief made a statement for tourists saying they shouldn't worry because the hitmen were all professionals and unlikely to shoot the wrong person by mistake.DavidL said:
It’s pathetic. Of course it is the same excuse we use every time we decide to bomb something.NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
Poppies? Fine wear a red one but the gold-trimmed, themed glitter ones are a bit OTT.
The white ones are a bit me me me.0 -
Actually I believe TM will get the deal passed by the HOC probbably with good support from sensible labour mps who do not want the risk of an accidental no dealOchEye said:
Oh come on, they are politicians...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
Falling house prices? You just want the Express to change its position.stodge said:
I think the key word here is "reasonable". Some Conservatives would vote for a deal consisting of fish and chips wrapped in the Brussels evening newspaper but on the assumption we'll get something rather sweeter (and fudge like) there'll be enough for most people to grudgingly give support.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
Given the alternatives seem to be another Referendum, Jeremy Corbyn, famine & pestilence on a biblical level and, worst of all, falling house prices, I can understand why the mood might be to accept whatever thin gruel is served up.0 -
A
Agree with all of that. Especially the poppies.TOPPING said:
In Macau several years ago there was a spate of gangster related shootings. The police chief made a statement for tourists saying they shouldn't worry because the hitmen were all professionals and unlikely to shoot the wrong person by mistake.DavidL said:
It’s pathetic. Of course it is the same excuse we use every time we decide to bomb something.NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
Poppies? Fine wear a red one but the gold-trimmed, themed glitter ones are a bit OTT.
The white ones are a bit me me me.0 -
But, it is speculation.DavidL said:
I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
May can bank on probably only 285 votes at the moment from her side, and maybe a further 5 from Labour Brexiteers. The DUP will either back en-bloc, or won’t at all.
Meanwhile, she’ll have SNP guaranteed against, Green, SDLP, and all the LD MPs but one (maybe) and most of Labour, except perhaps 15-20 absentions. About 290 votes against.
I think it’s bloody close.0 -
So do IBig_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe TM will get the deal passed by the HOC probbably with good support from sensible labour mps who do not want the risk of an accidental no dealOchEye said:
Oh come on, they are politicians...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
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It won’t be when the clear alternative is no deal.Casino_Royale said:
But, it is speculation.DavidL said:
I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
May can bank on probably only 285 votes at the moment from her side, and maybe a further 5 from Labour Brexiteers. The DUP will either back en-bloc, or won’t at all.
Meanwhile, she’ll have SNP guaranteed against, Green, SDLP, and all the LD MPs but one (maybe) and most of Labour, except perhaps 15-20 absentions. About 290 votes against.
I think it’s bloody close.0 -
If the big aim of ERG is a Brexit along hard principles then one has distinguish between strategy and tactics. They are not in an easy position as though they have the support of most Tory members they only have a diminishing minority of the voters (probably), and certainly nowhere near a majority in parliament - quite the reverse. To achieve their aim, which they probably won't, they will need a lot of luck at the right time. No Deal looks like their best chance and that can only be done ultimately by avoiding all outcomes apart from a binary decision between No Deal and something even less popular; or just possibly a choice between No Deal and Canada +, both of which would meet with ERG backing. There isn't much point in taking the rest of it seriously. It's hot air.0
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That simply isn’t the alternative. In extremis parliament could depose May and choose a new PM to revoke Article 50.DavidL said:
It won’t be when the clear alternative is no deal.Casino_Royale said:
But, it is speculation.DavidL said:
I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
May can bank on probably only 285 votes at the moment from her side, and maybe a further 5 from Labour Brexiteers. The DUP will either back en-bloc, or won’t at all.
Meanwhile, she’ll have SNP guaranteed against, Green, SDLP, and all the LD MPs but one (maybe) and most of Labour, except perhaps 15-20 absentions. About 290 votes against.
I think it’s bloody close.0 -
The so called sensible Labour MP's are mostly all drinking in the last chance saloon. Most LP supporters are expecting a third chicken coup attempt or a block defecation to a new party with Tony and Euan Blair. The well announced but failed CCP walk out from Conference is more like the ERG in the Tories, much noise but no substance.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe TM will get the deal passed by the HOC probbably with good support from sensible labour mps who do not want the risk of an accidental no dealOchEye said:
Oh come on, they are politicians...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
block defecation? dirty protest?OchEye said:
The so called sensible Labour MP's are mostly all drinking in the last chance saloon. Most LP supporters are expecting a third chicken coup attempt or a block defecation to a new party with Tony and Euan Blair. The well announced but failed CCP walk out from Conference is more like the ERG in the Tories, much noise but no substance.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe TM will get the deal passed by the HOC probbably with good support from sensible labour mps who do not want the risk of an accidental no dealOchEye said:
Oh come on, they are politicians...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
If people are as opposed to no deal as they claim (I am very skeptical of that), then even a bad deal should be supported on such a basis given it is far more risky to push for a second referendum of count on a favourable GE, should one somehow occur. But I feel like if there were anything like the numbers to counter the likely Tory rebels more Labour MPs would be willing to admit to thinking about it at least, when even some rebellious Labour MPs seem to have been pretty clear they will not consider it under any circumstances.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe TM will get the deal passed by the HOC probbably with good support from sensible labour mps who do not want the risk of an accidental no dealOchEye said:
Oh come on, they are politicians...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
Strong 'n Stable.0
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People go weirdly swoony over ex-forces turned pols, cf Dan Jarvis. I haven't heard anything of the latter recently, he must be making a fist of his mayoral duties, or at least not screwing up.twistedfirestopper3 said:NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
The Poppy thing, I can just about understand- the red poppy is an iconic symbol in this country, and if you don't want to wear one, that's perfectly acceptable but the white poppy just seems a bit meh! to me.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1055430622334906370
https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/1054471560986267648
The Saudi thing is just plain bonkers, and I thought Mercer was supposed to be a great hope for the Tories!0 -
Was wondering how long it would take for someone to catch it...spire2 said:
block defecation? dirty protest?OchEye said:
The so called sensible Labour MP's are mostly all drinking in the last chance saloon. Most LP supporters are expecting a third chicken coup attempt or a block defecation to a new party with Tony and Euan Blair. The well announced but failed CCP walk out from Conference is more like the ERG in the Tories, much noise but no substance.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually I believe TM will get the deal passed by the HOC probbably with good support from sensible labour mps who do not want the risk of an accidental no dealOchEye said:
Oh come on, they are politicians...Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they see it in the national interestOchEye said:
Only if they want to commit political hari kiri (belly slitting) and antagonise their local CLP, LP supporters and electorate. They will enhance their chances of being deselected in short time, and if there is a quick election, no chance of returning to the best club in London, or red boxes and government cars, and believe me, they are not that stupid, they just look and act like it.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P0 -
Portrait by AI program sells for $432,000
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45980863
Some people have more money than sense. Isn't not even a good example of what a GAN can produce.0 -
I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html0 -
There are so many assumptions in that, not least of which is that revoking art 50 is even in our power. My view, FWIW, is that we would need the consent of the other party to do that. That consent would not be a given.williamglenn said:
That simply isn’t the alternative. In extremis parliament could depose May and choose a new PM to revoke Article 50.DavidL said:
It won’t be when the clear alternative is no deal.Casino_Royale said:
But, it is speculation.DavidL said:
I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
May can bank on probably only 285 votes at the moment from her side, and maybe a further 5 from Labour Brexiteers. The DUP will either back en-bloc, or won’t at all.
Meanwhile, she’ll have SNP guaranteed against, Green, SDLP, and all the LD MPs but one (maybe) and most of Labour, except perhaps 15-20 absentions. About 290 votes against.
I think it’s bloody close.0 -
I'd forgotten he was a mayor.Theuniondivvie said:
People go weirdly swoony over ex-forces turned pols, cf Dan Jarvis. I haven't heard anything of the latter recently, he must be making a fist of his mayoral duties, or at least not screwing up.twistedfirestopper3 said:NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
The Poppy thing, I can just about understand- the red poppy is an iconic symbol in this country, and if you don't want to wear one, that's perfectly acceptable but the white poppy just seems a bit meh! to me.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1055430622334906370
https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/1054471560986267648
The Saudi thing is just plain bonkers, and I thought Mercer was supposed to be a great hope for the Tories!0 -
It's only wishful thinking or misleading people about how easy it would be when the other side do it.DavidL said:
There are so many assumptions in that, not least of which is that revoking art 50 is even in our power. My view, FWIW, is that we would need the consent of the other party to do that. That consent would not be a given.williamglenn said:
That simply isn’t the alternative. In extremis parliament could depose May and choose a new PM to revoke Article 50.DavidL said:
It won’t be when the clear alternative is no deal.Casino_Royale said:
But, it is speculation.DavidL said:
I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
May can bank on probably only 285 votes at the moment from her side, and maybe a further 5 from Labour Brexiteers. The DUP will either back en-bloc, or won’t at all.
Meanwhile, she’ll have SNP guaranteed against, Green, SDLP, and all the LD MPs but one (maybe) and most of Labour, except perhaps 15-20 absentions. About 290 votes against.
I think it’s bloody close.0 -
People might want to be careful what they post...
"To the extent that it is suggested that I have been guilty of unlawful sexual or racist behaviour, I categorically and wholly deny these allegations."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6316539/Sir-Philip-Green-named-parliament-injunction-businessman.html
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From my understanding of the White Poppy, it started out in 1931 as a response to the seeming pro-militarisation popularity of the red poppy. The only comment I will make is that whenever the UK is being pushed to some form of military activity by the political establishment, the red poppy is in the fore front of the publicity.twistedfirestopper3 said:NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
The Poppy thing, I can just about understand- the red poppy is an iconic symbol in this country, and if you don't want to wear one, that's perfectly acceptable but the white poppy just seems a bit meh! to me.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1055430622334906370
https://twitter.com/JohnnyMercerUK/status/1054471560986267648
The Saudi thing is just plain bonkers, and I thought Mercer was supposed to be a great hope for the Tories!0 -
No, my point was that the full range of actions that are available to the UK are also available to parliament.kle4 said:
It's only wishful thinking or misleading people about how easy it would be when the other side do it.DavidL said:
There are so many assumptions in that, not least of which is that revoking art 50 is even in our power. My view, FWIW, is that we would need the consent of the other party to do that. That consent would not be a given.williamglenn said:
That simply isn’t the alternative. In extremis parliament could depose May and choose a new PM to revoke Article 50.DavidL said:
It won’t be when the clear alternative is no deal.Casino_Royale said:
But, it is speculation.DavidL said:
I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
May can bank on probably only 285 votes at the moment from her side, and maybe a further 5 from Labour Brexiteers. The DUP will either back en-bloc, or won’t at all.
Meanwhile, she’ll have SNP guaranteed against, Green, SDLP, and all the LD MPs but one (maybe) and most of Labour, except perhaps 15-20 absentions. About 290 votes against.
I think it’s bloody close.0 -
Is a five point Tory lead now the new normal?0
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Google gave a $90m severance package to Andy Rubin, the creator of the Android mobile software, but concealed details of a sexual misconduct allegation that triggered his departure, the New York Times has reported.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/25/google-andy-rubin-android-creator-payoff-sexual-misconduct-report0 -
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html
0 -
Totally O/T....red dead redemption 2 is out tomorrow. From early gameplay available online it looks incredible and that’s on console...can’t wait until it goes to PC in a year or so.0
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I confess as deep as they can be I could not get through the first Red Dead or the last GTA game - too much 20 minute road trips between activity to make sure you visit the vast world they created, or it is how I remember it, I was a bit weary of sandboxes at the time. But I cannot argue the first was not objectively very good, and I'm sure this one is. But I have too many to finish!FrancisUrquhart said:Totally O/T....red dead redemption 2 is out tomorrow. From early gameplay available online it looks incredible and that’s on console...can’t wait until it goes to PC in a year or so.
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If Metacritic is to be believed, it is a sensational game.FrancisUrquhart said:Totally O/T....red dead redemption 2 is out tomorrow. From early gameplay available online it looks incredible and that’s on console...can’t wait until it goes to PC in a year or so.
0 -
Common Sense Solidarity - seems to be Blue Labour, basically.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html0 -
Whatever your intent you presented an option that is not necessarily within the power of parliament as though it were a given, that is as though it is simple and easy, when it is not.williamglenn said:
No, my point was that the full range of actions that are available to the UK are also available to parliament.kle4 said:
It's only wishful thinking or misleading people about how easy it would be when the other side do it.DavidL said:
There are so many assumptions in that, not least of which is that revoking art 50 is even in our power. My view, FWIW, is that we would need the consent of the other party to do that. That consent would not be a given.williamglenn said:
That simply isn’t the alternative. In extremis parliament could depose May and choose a new PM to revoke Article 50.DavidL said:
It won’t be when the clear alternative is no deal.Casino_Royale said:
But, it is speculation.DavidL said:
I’ve been saying for a while any deal May is willing to recommend will pass the Commons.Big_G_NorthWales said:Up to 45 Labour MPs could rebel to back Theresa May's Brexit deal if it is “reasonable”, Don Valley MP Caroline Flint tells me
https://t.co/ZWl9xBuZ2P
May can bank on probably only 285 votes at the moment from her side, and maybe a further 5 from Labour Brexiteers. The DUP will either back en-bloc, or won’t at all.
Meanwhile, she’ll have SNP guaranteed against, Green, SDLP, and all the LD MPs but one (maybe) and most of Labour, except perhaps 15-20 absentions. About 290 votes against.
I think it’s bloody close.0 -
Same here.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html
Clearly a flawed test as everyone knows I'm a working class (Northern) Tory.0 -
Which is worse, Blue Labour or Red Tory?Freggles said:
Common Sense Solidarity - seems to be Blue Labour, basically.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html0 -
Perhaps they are talking about the Notting Hill up North? (there must be one!)TheScreamingEagles said:
Same here.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html
Clearly a flawed test as everyone knows I'm a working class (Northern) Tory.0 -
Having watched an hour or so of gameplay I agree with the herd. Poor hitman season 2 (and every other game out in the next couple of months) is going to be totally overshadowed.rcs1000 said:
If Metacritic is to be believed, it is a sensational game.FrancisUrquhart said:Totally O/T....red dead redemption 2 is out tomorrow. From early gameplay available online it looks incredible and that’s on console...can’t wait until it goes to PC in a year or so.
0 -
Blue Labour should have branded themselves Proper Labour to avoid being associated with the Blue Tories...RobD said:
Which is worse, Blue Labour or Red Tory?Freggles said:
Common Sense Solidarity - seems to be Blue Labour, basically.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html0 -
The year long decline of Corbyn's popularity among 18-24 year olds is really something. From 65% in Summer 2017 to 35% today. (via @daverich1). https://t.co/SBspZ6Uy6B0
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Wearing a white poppy certainly does drive a lot of attention, some of it quite an aggressive display of poppy totalitarianism. It certainly is not a comfortable easy option. Quite a few Christians wear one as a part of taking up the Cross of Christ. The white poppy symbolises remembrance of all victims of war whether civilian or combatant on either side, and have been availible since the 1930s.TOPPING said:
In Macau several years ago there was a spate of gangster related shootings. The police chief made a statement for tourists saying they shouldn't worry because the hitmen were all professionals and unlikely to shoot the wrong person by mistake.DavidL said:
It’s pathetic. Of course it is the same excuse we use every time we decide to bomb something.NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
Poppies? Fine wear a red one but the gold-trimmed, themed glitter ones are a bit OTT.
The white ones are a bit me me me.
0 -
Will it rebound in the event of an election though? New 18 year olds not yet inspired by the jezziah who will get fired up should a campaign begin?Big_G_NorthWales said:The year long decline of Corbyn's popularity among 18-24 year olds is really something. From 65% in Summer 2017 to 35% today. (via @daverich1). https://t.co/SBspZ6Uy6B
0 -
Too busy making twats of themselves over murals of white men ;-)Big_G_NorthWales said:The year long decline of Corbyn's popularity among 18-24 year olds is really something. From 65% in Summer 2017 to 35% today. (via @daverich1). https://t.co/SBspZ6Uy6B
0 -
Brexit, and not backing the #peoplesvote.Big_G_NorthWales said:The year long decline of Corbyn's popularity among 18-24 year olds is really something. From 65% in Summer 2017 to 35% today. (via @daverich1). https://t.co/SBspZ6Uy6B
0 -
Global Green Community for me.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html0 -
So I'm told you have a new job doing whatever it is you do and working for some Frenchman (whatever that is) in some place (don't know where) sometime (don't know when).TheScreamingEagles said:
Same here.
Clearly a flawed test as everyone knows I'm a working class (Northern) Tory.
Congratulations (possibly).0 -
I came out as 'Orange booker'. I thought that label was a bit 2005? I tend to associate it with David Laws, whom I can't abide.0
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There's a Piccadilly up northRobD said:
Perhaps they are talking about the Notting Hill up North? (there must be one!)TheScreamingEagles said:
Same here.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html
Clearly a flawed test as everyone knows I'm a working class (Northern) Tory.
0 -
For that price you could have a bound copy of Theresa May’s conference speech, signed by the lady herselfFrancisUrquhart said:Portrait by AI program sells for $432,000
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45980863
Some people have more money than sense. Isn't not even a good example of what a GAN can produce.
(I kid you not)0 -
I was split, identified as both Orange Book and Modern Working Life. Both of which I could identify with. Actually I'm still not sure what the difference between them is.TheScreamingEagles said:
Same here.RobD said:
Notting Hill (Tory) Society, apparently.kle4 said:I see the Indy has up a questionnaire designed to find people's 'value clan' designed by BMG research, another in a long line of attempts to categorize people. I'm down as 'The Measured Middle', but I feel like I might bias the results somewhat as even though I did not look to see what the 'clans' were beforehand, that is kind of where I would have liked to have ended up, so may have self selected somewhat.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-political-clan-test-research-uk-general-election-right-wing-left-bmg-a8599586.html
Clearly a flawed test as everyone knows I'm a working class (Northern) Tory.0 -
Orange booker for me. I expect that group will be hugely overrepresented on pb.0
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Good evening all.
I was Notting Hill Society/Modern Working Life. Truly a person of the people.
As for the ERG, if you're going to depose someone, get on with it. They're doing the opposite of 'speak softly and carry a big stick'.0 -
Thank you.stodge said:
So I'm told you have a new job doing whatever it is you do and working for some Frenchman (whatever that is) in some place (don't know where) sometime (don't know when).TheScreamingEagles said:
Same here.
Clearly a flawed test as everyone knows I'm a working class (Northern) Tory.
Congratulations (possibly).0 -
Google says it has sacked 48 people, including 13 senior managers, over sexual harassment claims in past two years0
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You may be right there.AlastairMeeks said:Orange booker for me. I expect that group will be hugely overrepresented on pb.
+1 for the Orange Book team.0 -
Bastion of tradition and the individual.0
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Poppy wearing in general is virtue signalling, done old school....Foxy said:
Wearing a white poppy certainly does drive a lot of attention, some of it quite an aggressive display of poppy totalitarianism. It certainly is not a comfortable easy option. Quite a few Christians wear one as a part of taking up the Cross of Christ. The white poppy symbolises remembrance of all victims of war whether civilian or combatant on either side, and have been availible since the 1930s.TOPPING said:
In Macau several years ago there was a spate of gangster related shootings. The police chief made a statement for tourists saying they shouldn't worry because the hitmen were all professionals and unlikely to shoot the wrong person by mistake.DavidL said:
It’s pathetic. Of course it is the same excuse we use every time we decide to bomb something.NickPalmer said:
That's an absolutely ridiculous argument, isn't it? Saudi Arabia is bombing people in Yemen, so we must sell them precision weapons so as to make sure they don't bomb someone by mistake. It completely bypasses the question of whether we should support Saudi intervention in Yemen, and would apply equally to assisting Russia or China in invading somewhere, by ensuring they could target their enemies accurately.Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Jonny Mercer having a good 24 hrs, big ups for poppy and Wahabi fascism.
Poppies? Fine wear a red one but the gold-trimmed, themed glitter ones are a bit OTT.
The white ones are a bit me me me.0 -
MWL – Modern Working Life
Modern Working Life clan members are strong believers of the virtues of hard work and social mobility, supporting the view that it is always possible to achieve your goals, so long as you work hard. On balance most MWL clansmen believe the individual, not the state, should be responsible for their own well-being, and tend to have liberal views on the environment, LGBT rights and gender equality.0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/25/leading-brexiter-claims-eu-citizens-in-uk-will-be-given-voting-rights
If true, May is going to have fun trying to sell that to Tory MPs in marginals.0 -
The question is does it make them more likely to vote.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I was told a story today about a colleague in another part of my organisation
No idea if this can be true or not, but he was present when I was told and did not deny it.
So, he was born in the UK and his parents are Spanish
He holds a Spanish passport and voted for Brexit.
He has just got his British passport - just in case.
0 -
Split between Orange Booker and Global Green. Which is probably about right, even though I also have strong views in some areas which would see me at odds with most people in said groups.0
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As an Ezu citizen should he have voted?Floater said:I was told a story today about a colleague in another part of my organisation
No idea if this can be true or not, but he was present when I was told and did not deny it.
So, he was born in the UK and his parents are Spanish
He holds a Spanish passport and voted for Brexit.
He has just got his British passport - just in case.0 -
The measured middle for me. Apparently this clan does not have strong political views. Hmm...0
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Almost certainly will apply to local elections only, as present.FrancisUrquhart said:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/25/leading-brexiter-claims-eu-citizens-in-uk-will-be-given-voting-rights
If true, May is going to have fun trying to sell that to Tory MPs in marginals.0 -
He wouldn't have been eligible to vote in the referendum if he was solely an EU citizen.Charles said:
As an Ezu citizen should he have voted?Floater said:I was told a story today about a colleague in another part of my organisation
No idea if this can be true or not, but he was present when I was told and did not deny it.
So, he was born in the UK and his parents are Spanish
He holds a Spanish passport and voted for Brexit.
He has just got his British passport - just in case.0
