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Wikipedia (yes I know!) says that The Principality of Catalonia was a medieval and early modern political entity or state in the northeastern Iberian Peninsula, and does on to indicate that Prince was also King of Aragon, although the two were separate.SouthamObserver said:
There is no systematic brutality in Catalonia, where around half the population consider themselves Spanish and half do not. All travel on Spanish passports and have Spanish citizenship.YBarddCwsc said:
I'm Welsh, not British.SouthamObserver said:
No, the Catalans are Spanish. Just as the Scots and Welsh are British. Some Catalans do not regard themselves as Spanish, but that is different. In any case, Catalans are not subjected to indiscriminate police brutality.
I think many of our Scottish contributors would describe themselves emphatically as Scottish, not British.
It's not up to you to tell the Scottish and Welsh people what they are and what they are not. They can decide for themselves,
The Catalan have an independent history, culture, language. They are a distinct people. They have a right to self-deternination. They are not Spanish. It is not up to you to tell them what they are.
A state that carries out systematic brutality against a distinct minority is not a welcoming, tolerant state.
Catalonia does not have an independent history. It has never been an independent country. It certainly has a distinct language - one it shares with Valencia, the Balearic Islands, parts of Murcia, Andorra and Rousillon in France. Catalonia is also home to many cultures. I lived there for five years and go back frequently. How long did you live there?0 -
Except with none of the protections of the EEA institutions, all of the costs of EU membership, and none of the voting.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
There is still time to transition to EEA+CU now, just not under that woman. She really is an utterly execrable fucktoon.0 -
It took Nixon to go to China ...Slackbladder said:
So David Davies, who thinks we need to totally get out of EEA and CU and attacking May for keeping us in the CU would....keep up in the CU?grabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
Errr ok??0 -
One of my best friends is Catalan, and in fact I am just about to zoom him.SouthamObserver said:
There is no systematic brutality in Catalonia, where around half the population consider themselves Spanish and half do not. All travel on Spanish passports and have Spanish citizenship.YBarddCwsc said:
I'm Welsh, not British.SouthamObserver said:
No, the Catalans are Spanish. Just as the Scots and Welsh are British. Some Catalans do not regard themselves as Spanish, but that is different. In any case, Catalans are not subjected to indiscriminate police brutality.
I think many of our Scottish contributors would describe themselves emphatically as Scottish, not British.
It's not up to you to tell the Scottish and Welsh people what they are and what they are not. They can decide for themselves,
The Catalan have an independent history, culture, language. They are a distinct people. They have a right to self-deternination. They are not Spanish. It is not up to you to tell them what they are.
A state that carries out systematic brutality against a distinct minority is not a welcoming, tolerant state.
Catalonia does not have an independent history. It has never been an independent country. It certainly has a distinct language - one it shares with Valencia, the Balearic Islands, parts of Murcia, Andorra and Rousillon in France. Catalonia is also home to many cultures. I lived there for five years and go back frequently. How long did you live there?
You may well have lived there for 5 years, but you seem to be ignorant of the history of Catalonia -- from the Principality of Catalonia in the Middle Ages to Revolutionary Catalonia at the time of the Civil War.
That hardly surprises me, as you seem to be ignorant of the histories of Scotland and Wales.
As regards police brutality, the Catalan independence vote provided images I never expected to see in a twenty-first century EU country of policeman clubbing voters and women & children streaming with blood. Just for exercising the right to vote.
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Biden/Harris looks good, but would they...either of them...... appeal in the Mid-West?HYUFD said:Hickenlooper is too centrist for current Democratic primary voters, Warren, Sanders or Harris look the most likely nominee at the moment. Biden would be the best general election candidate but he will find it a challenge to win once the field narrows down after the first few primaries and caucuses and his main opponent is a left liberal populist
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Why would May accept being ousted? Are you serious?HYUFD said:
Why should May accept that? She would put a SM and CU backstop for NI to the Commons well before the ERG could muster the numbers to oust her and it would likely pass rendering a No confidence vote pointlessPhilip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.0 -
You need to get in touch with the CCTV folk at Watterloo to ensure the incident is preserved and not scrubbed.CarlottaVance said:
Hope you're not hurt & there's no lasting damage - and you press charges - sounds like a pretty straightforward common assault. The publicity will do him much more damage than any Magistrates fine. There will very likely be CCTV too.murali_s said:O/T - a bit long and dramatic!
Had an interesting incident on my way to work this morning. Those of you who travel on the Waterloo and City line at Waterloo will know how the queues snake around during busy periods. This guy, fully booted and suited casually jumped the really long queue and refused to adhere to the requests of the TfL staff to get tot he back of the queue. The sheer arrogance of the guy astounded me - I went up to him suggesting what he had done was wrong and yes I did call him a "tall tw*t".
For my troubles I got a size 12 boot up my spine which made me collapse to the floor, bruises and all. A big shout-out to the couple of lovely ladies who helped me up. The guy nonchalantly carried on and boarded the train. I was going to leave the matter but the two ladies told me to report this to the Police (they had photos on their phone etc.). I got off at Bank and sneakily followed him to his workplace - with that knowledge I returned to Bank station and reported the incident to BTP. Luckily the ladies had also called in as witnesses to the event. Let's see what happens but definitely an interesting commute into work today!!
And you should get a copy of the images from the ladies and pass them to his employer.
He can try queue jumping at the Job Centre.....0 -
Marks from the jury for this Remain ad?
https://twitter.com/bestforbritain/status/1052950205962887174?s=210 -
Trump has been a major celebrity in the US for over 25 years. His hyperbole, looseness with the facts, even his womanising - are well known to all That is why the "grabbing women by their...." etc exposes have had no effect. He's a flawed and imperfect human being, and the electorate were well aware of that when they elected him. It was all baked in.Dadge said:Re Trump's bullying. If they don't already know so, it is to be hoped (and expected?) that once Trump loses the next election, politicians will know better than to resort to disparaging nicknames.
They were also aware that he is a straight talker who says what he means, that he does what he says, and that he keeps his electoral promises. He is also NOT a politician.
Like him or hate him - and there is a significant degree of both - that's what got him elected in 2016. Whether it will work again in 2020 remains to be seen.
Regarding the nicknames, this also is not new. Calling candidate Bush 'low energy' was something he never recovered from. All his nicknames contain a kernel of truth. Crooked Hillary was a classic. L'il Marco, Lyin' Ted etc also hit home. Elizabeth Warren's claim of cherokee ancestry has been a source of mirth to many folks for a while. So calling her Pocahontas struck at the heart of her weakness. (Pocahontas was not a cherokee but the daughter of chief Powhatan, head of a group of tribes in the Tidewater of Virginia. She subsequently married an Englishman and is buried at Gravesend in Kent.). It was the one female indian name every American knew.
The nickname was only a mild irritant but for some reason (the Democrats obsession with identity politics perhaps?) she couldn't let it go or laugh it off. So she did this huge event of the TV promo, the man from Stanford doing the DNA test - the whole deal, and it has backfired spectacularly. From here on out, she will always be Pocahontas. Possibly not as fatally damaging as Chappaquiddick, but probably in the end mortal. - and all self-inflicted.0 -
It was part of the territory of the Crown of Aragon and when Aragon united with Castille in the late 15th century it became part of the Crown of Spain. It certainly had its own laws, privileges and customs until the early 18th century, but that was common across Spain (and many other parts of Europe back then). It was never an independent state. Even today, most Catalans - including many current separatists - would back a deal which saw Catalonia enjoy the status that the Basque country has. The tragedy (if that is the right word) is that this is exactly what was agreed with the Socialist government in Madrid around 10 years ago and then ratified in a referendum in Catalonia. That was then overturned by Spain's constitutional court and by the PP government that succeeded PSOE.OldKingCole said:
Wikipedia (yes I know!) says that The Principality of Catalonia was a medieval and early modern political entity or state in the northeastern Iberian Peninsula, and does on to indicate that Prince was also King of Aragon, although the two were separate.SouthamObserver said:
There is no systematic brutality in Catalonia, where around half the population consider themselves Spanish and half do not. All travel on Spanish passports and have Spanish citizenship.YBarddCwsc said:
I'm Welsh, not British.SouthamObserver said:
No, the Catalans are Spanish. Just as the Scots and Welsh are British. Some Catalans do not regard themselves as Spanish, but that is different. In any case, Catalans are not subjected to indiscriminate police brutality.
I think many of our Scottish contributors would describe themselves emphatically as Scottish, not British.
It's not up to you to tell the Scottish and Welsh people what they are and what they are not. They can decide for themselves,
The Catalan have an independent history, culture, language. They are a distinct people. They have a right to self-deternination. They are not Spanish. It is not up to you to tell them what they are.
A state that carries out systematic brutality against a distinct minority is not a welcoming, tolerant state.
Catalonia does not have an independent history. It has never been an independent country. It certainly has a distinct language - one it shares with Valencia, the Balearic Islands, parts of Murcia, Andorra and Rousillon in France. Catalonia is also home to many cultures. I lived there for five years and go back frequently. How long did you live there?
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You are bizarrely obsessed about this.Tim_B said:Just announced!!!!! For all your authentic Indian cooking needs - Genuine Elizabeth Warren Instant Cherokee powder!!!
guaranteed free of any native american content, sense of humor, sense of reality, or sense of the absurd. Your mileage may vary. Actual highway mileage will probably be less. No parts ingestible by small children. Not recommended for children over 12. This product has less native american content than the Jeep Cherokee.
Do you ever post about anything else?0 -
Mr. Anazina, it's fair to mock someone in Warren's position.0
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I don't know what Warren hoped to achieve by doing what she did. Sinking to Trump's level won't work, he will always go lower, and neither will attempting to prove his pettiness wrong, he'll just ignore it.0
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Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
It's rather like Rachel Dolazell, who built her career on being black, and then it turned out she was white.notme said:
Totally. It is enjoyable watching the entire fraud that is identity politics and how people who have power in every other way manage to acquire some kind of victimhood that gives them a preference/grievance. In the case of the person in question she used her 'heritage' to get her promoted at her work place.Tim_B said:
She is a fraud - she has claimed for years that her mother and father had to elope to get married because her mother was part Cherokee and part Delaware. The DNA result questions - to put it mildly - that assertion. She has also used this minority claim for years to move her career forward. So Trump calling her Pocahontas struck a chord.Nigelb said:
I agree she is unlikely to get the nomination (and said as much yesterday).Richard_Nabavi said:Elizabeth Warren is toast, surely. Lord only knows what she was trying to achieve with that DNA test, but whatever it was, it has backfired big-time. It has just served to make Trump look right, and make her look petulant, silly, defensive and probably dishonest.
In any case she's the wrong candidate to appeal to the key voters the Dems need to win back, in places like Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan. The Dems need to focus entirely on electability in the key states. They are going to lose again if they indulge themselves with a candidate whose appeal lies mostly in California and the north-east.
Not so much because she's dishonest - I think that is unfair, as this article suggests:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/18/just-about-everything-youve-read-warren-dna-test-is-wrong/
- but because she can't even win a news cycle she instigated.
Against a brazen liar, likely fraudster, and shill for mass murderers.
We see this total demolition happening across the Atlantic while we are the busy process of implementing it here. We keep going and a Trump will emerge here as well.
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Mr. Glenn, 'quivering little British bodies' is a foolish line to use.
Also, it has the air of a hissyfit. The 'going a bit far line' was good.0 -
Yep, the police brutality was shocking, indefensible and totally counter-productive. The illegal referendum should have been allowed to take place and its result - with a low turnout, no independent scrutiny and a decidedly dodgy electoral roll - ignored. Instead Madrid played directly into the separatists' hands and gave them exactly what they wanted. The new government is not making the same mistakes.YBarddCwsc said:
One of my best friends is Catalan, and in fact I am just about to zoom him.SouthamObserver said:
There is no systematic brutality in Catalonia, where around half the population consider themselves Spanish and half do not. All travel on Spanish passports and have Spanish citizenship.YBarddCwsc said:
I'm Welsh, not British.SouthamObserver said:
No, the Catalans are Spanish. Just as the Scots and Welsh are British. Some Catalans do not regard themselves as Spanish, but that is different. In any case, Catalans are not subjected to indiscriminate police brutality.
I think many of our Scottish contributors would describe themselves emphatically as Scottish, not British.
It's not up to you to tell the Scottish and Welsh people what they are and what they are not. They can decide for themselves,
The Catalan have an independent history, culture, language. They are a distinct people. They have a right to self-deternination. They are not Spanish. It is not up to you to tell them what they are.
A state that carries out systematic brutality against a distinct minority is not a welcoming, tolerant state.
Catalonia does not have an independent history. It has never been an independent country. It certainly has a distinct language - one it shares with Valencia, the Balearic Islands, parts of Murcia, Andorra and Rousillon in France. Catalonia is also home to many cultures. I lived there for five years and go back frequently. How long did you live there?
You may well have lived there for 5 years, but you seem to be ignorant of the history of Catalonia -- from the Principality of Catalonia in the Middle Ages to Revolutionary Catalonia at the time of the Civil War.
That hardly surprises me, as you seem to be ignorant of the histories of Scotland and Wales.
As regards police brutality, the Catalan independence vote provided images I never expected to see in a twenty-first century EU country of policeman clubbing voters and women & children streaming with blood. Just for exercising the right to vote.
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An interesting element of that analysis is its discussion of how an NI backstop falls more comfortably within the WTO ruleset than a UK wide one.TOPPING said:
No of course it is not. We don't need, nor does WTO rules mandate any borders anywhere (taking back control notwithstanding). It is another WTO member that would bring the action that, under WTO rules, would require us to have one.archer101au said:
It is not about predictions on outcome. It is about whether the ERG plan on the NI border would be in violation of WTO rules. It is not.TOPPING said:
You addressed no such thing. You stated your fantasy outcome. Or perhaps one that will be in place in a few years (let's hope). What you most certainly didn't address is where we are today, why no one has described, or provided the plans for, or submitted the technical drawings of, or published a white paper on the technological/remote solution.archer101au said:
I addressed this yesterday. It is clearly not true. WTO rules do not require a 'hard' border - they just require that checks are done. The checks would be done, via declaration and via audit away from the border. Problem solved.
I think a goodly proportion of the western world is eagerly awaiting just such a disclosure and yet detail, other than mad Brexiters waving their hands in ignorance, has there been none.
Read this article. It is short, sharp, and to the point.0 -
ErTim_B said:
Trump has been a major celebrity in the US for over 25 years. His hyperbole, looseness with the facts, even his womanising - are well known to all That is why the "grabbing women by their...." etc exposes have had no effect. He's a flawed and imperfect human being, and the electorate were well aware of that when they elected him. It was all baked in.Dadge said:Re Trump's bullying. If they don't already know so, it is to be hoped (and expected?) that once Trump loses the next election, politicians will know better than to resort to disparaging nicknames.
They were also aware that he is a straight talker who says what he means, that he does what he says, and that he keeps his electoral promises. He is also NOT a politician.
Like him or hate him - and there is a significant degree of both - that's what got him elected in 2016. Whether it will work again in 2020 remains to be seen.
Regarding the nicknames, this also is not new. Calling candidate Bush 'low energy' was something he never recovered from. All his nicknames contain a kernel of truth. Crooked Hillary was a classic. L'il Marco, Lyin' Ted etc also hit home. Elizabeth Warren's claim of cherokee ancestry has been a source of mirth to many folks for a while. So calling her Pocahontas struck at the heart of her weakness. (Pocahontas was not a cherokee but the daughter of chief Powhatan, head of a group of tribes in the Tidewater of Virginia. She subsequently married an Englishman and is buried at Gravesend in Kent.). It was the one female indian name every American knew.
The nickname was only a mild irritant but for some reason (the Democrats obsession with identity politics perhaps?) she couldn't let it go or laugh it off. So she did this huge event of the TV promo, the man from Stanford doing the DNA test - the whole deal, and it has backfired spectacularly. From here on out, she will always be Pocahontas. Possibly not as fatally damaging as Chappaquiddick, but probably in the end mortal. - and all self-inflicted.
'They were also aware that he is a straight talker who says what he means, that he does what he says, and that he keeps his electoral promises. ‘
You sure about that?
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Don't forget John Harrison.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
In one sense, Elizabeth Warren's is a very traditional kind of identity politicking. For how many decades have US politicians emphasised their Irish ancestral lines at the expense of their English ones?notme said:
Totally. It is enjoyable watching the entire fraud that is identity politics and how people who have power in every other way manage to acquire some kind of victimhood that gives them a preference/grievance. In the case of the person in question she used her 'heritage' to get her promoted at her work place.Tim_B said:
She is a fraud - she has claimed for years that her mother and father had to elope to get married because her mother was part Cherokee and part Delaware. The DNA result questions - to put it mildly - that assertion. She has also used this minority claim for years to move her career forward. So Trump calling her Pocahontas struck a chord.Nigelb said:
I agree she is unlikely to get the nomination (and said as much yesterday).Richard_Nabavi said:Elizabeth Warren is toast, surely. Lord only knows what she was trying to achieve with that DNA test, but whatever it was, it has backfired big-time. It has just served to make Trump look right, and make her look petulant, silly, defensive and probably dishonest.
In any case she's the wrong candidate to appeal to the key voters the Dems need to win back, in places like Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan. The Dems need to focus entirely on electability in the key states. They are going to lose again if they indulge themselves with a candidate whose appeal lies mostly in California and the north-east.
Not so much because she's dishonest - I think that is unfair, as this article suggests:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/18/just-about-everything-youve-read-warren-dna-test-is-wrong/
- but because she can't even win a news cycle she instigated.
Against a brazen liar, likely fraudster, and shill for mass murderers.
We see this total demolition happening across the Atlantic while we are the busy process of implementing it here. We keep going and a Trump will emerge here as well.0 -
Beyond belief that they could have made that ad without realising that the kind of people they are appealing to already had enough of putting up with the shit and voted to Leave two years ago.williamglenn said:Marks from the jury for this Remain ad?
https://twitter.com/bestforbritain/status/1052950205962887174?s=21
It would be pretty good if the decision to Leave had been taken by faceless civil servants, or cooked up by the HofC, but as it was generally the poorer people of Britain who had enough of mass immigration forced on them by rich out of touch politicians who told them they were going to reduce it, it doesn't work.
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Technically UTC is, rather than GMT but I'm not that pedantic. Though you'd have to be a very special kind of Tory to think that this gives British people dominion over time itself.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
Thanks Mark! I will. He does *seem* to have a very good job at one of the City Banks.MarqueeMark said:
You need to get in touch with the CCTV folk at Watterloo to ensure the incident is preserved and not scrubbed.CarlottaVance said:
Hope you're not hurt & there's no lasting damage - and you press charges - sounds like a pretty straightforward common assault. The publicity will do him much more damage than any Magistrates fine. There will very likely be CCTV too.murali_s said:O/T - a bit long and dramatic!
Had an interesting incident on my way to work this morning. Those of you who travel on the Waterloo and City line at Waterloo will know how the queues snake around during busy periods. This guy, fully booted and suited casually jumped the really long queue and refused to adhere to the requests of the TfL staff to get tot he back of the queue. The sheer arrogance of the guy astounded me - I went up to him suggesting what he had done was wrong and yes I did call him a "tall tw*t".
For my troubles I got a size 12 boot up my spine which made me collapse to the floor, bruises and all. A big shout-out to the couple of lovely ladies who helped me up. The guy nonchalantly carried on and boarded the train. I was going to leave the matter but the two ladies told me to report this to the Police (they had photos on their phone etc.). I got off at Bank and sneakily followed him to his workplace - with that knowledge I returned to Bank station and reported the incident to BTP. Luckily the ladies had also called in as witnesses to the event. Let's see what happens but definitely an interesting commute into work today!!
And you should get a copy of the images from the ladies and pass them to his employer.
He can try queue jumping at the Job Centre.....0 -
F1: Perez seems to be confirmed for Force India.
I suspect his team mate might be a man whose name rhymes with Dance Foal.0 -
Agreed. May is pissing away month after month. We may as well take the time for a leadership contest and get a clearer proposal forwards.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.0 -
Remainers have nothing to worry about then.Recidivist said:A point I've made a couple of times on here is illustrated by this article from the Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/18/young-people-brexit-peoples-vote-future
It is worth remembering that the remainers on here like myself are generally coming at this debate with the point of view that the EU is a genuine point of political debate. So if we can make a good enough case we can win over leavers, or at least reduce their enthusiasm. The leavers likewise advance arguments to try and make it clear that their way is the better one. There's enough common ground for the discussion to continue for some considerable time.
I have similar exchanges with my friends and older members of my family. But when I talk to my children, it isn't like that at all. They don't regard the EU as something that you choose to leave. It is simply the way it is and the way it must be. They don't understand why anyone would want to leave, and are deeply suspicious of anyone who does. It is so far removed from their worldview you might as well be talking about sending small boys back up chimneys or re-establishing the empire.
It is worth remembering this. It isn't just a possibility that we will be rejoining. It is an absolute inevitability.0 -
Whilst Einstien claimed time was not constant and indeed supplanted British time with foreign space/time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't forget John Harrison.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
Until they stand up and be counted of course she is. If, somehow, she does end up getting something she proposes through and it is indeed terrible, the Boris's of this world will only have themselves to blame.Philip_Thompson said:
Agreed. May is pissing away month after month.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
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Definitely doesn't work for me - I don't identify with any of the "liberated" people and preferred them in their constrained phase. At one point it felt like a far-right advert - all that British and angry stuff. And I felt that the message was obscure until the very end, and then dealt with only briefly - the viewer could easily miss it.williamglenn said:Marks from the jury for this Remain ad?
https://twitter.com/bestforbritain/status/1052950205962887174?s=21
But I might not be the target audience...0 -
Plenty, but it's been such a great source of facebook memes and other mirthful comments over here the last couple of days I've been a bit carried away. There are few things as humorously satisfying as someone so deadly earnest, so relentlessly critical of others, and so fraudulent, proving it herself.Anazina said:
You are bizarrely obsessed about this.Tim_B said:Just announced!!!!! For all your authentic Indian cooking needs - Genuine Elizabeth Warren Instant Cherokee powder!!!
guaranteed free of any native american content, sense of humor, sense of reality, or sense of the absurd. Your mileage may vary. Actual highway mileage will probably be less. No parts ingestible by small children. Not recommended for children over 12. This product has less native american content than the Jeep Cherokee.
Do you ever post about anything else?
My favorite was Orin Hatch posing a pic of himself looking quizzically at his phone, with the caption "1/1032 T. Rex, the rest other dinosaurs". You knew the reference immediately0 -
Brexit would be much easier if we could ensure that March 29th 2019 at 11pm never happened.grabcocque said:
Technically UTC is, rather than GMT but I'm not that pedantic. Though you'd have to be a very special kind of Tory to think that this gives British people dominion over time itself.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit
As it stands perhaps we could ask the question about whether a leap second is due.0 -
Anybody whose natural instinct is to presume that sanity will - eventually - prevail is probably living on the wrong planet at the wrong time.kle4 said:
Remainers have nothing to worry about then.
0 -
I think presuming anything, especially something political, is inevitable, is a mistake, but I'm not the one making the argument that.grabcocque said:
Anybody whose natural instinct is to presume that sanity will - eventually - prevail is probably living on the wrong planet at the wrong time.kle4 said:
Remainers have nothing to worry about then.0 -
-
Didn't Ford Prefect claim that "Time is an illusion: lunchtime doubly so."?David_Evershed said:
Whilst Einstien claimed time was not constant and indeed supplanted British time with foreign space/time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't forget John Harrison.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
Very constructive stuff and certainly not arrogant.Scott_P said:0 -
I'm sure he has no reason to need to posture to his own electorate.williamglenn said:0 -
If the single/double summer time people have their way we wouldn't use GMT/UTC for any of the year, which would be an absurdity.grabcocque said:
Technically UTC is, rather than GMT but I'm not that pedantic. Though you'd have to be a very special kind of Tory to think that this gives British people dominion over time itself.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.0 -
Taking into account my comments about hyperbole and looseness with the facts, yes. Compared to his predecessor who was named "liar of the year", by the of the most liberal newspapers in the country - wapo- absolutely.OldKingCole said:
ErTim_B said:
Trump has been a major celebrity in the US for over 25 years. His hyperbole, looseness with the facts, even his womanising - are well known to all That is why the "grabbing women by their...." etc exposes have had no effect. He's a flawed and imperfect human being, and the electorate were well aware of that when they elected him. It was all baked in.Dadge said:Re Trump's bullying. If they don't already know so, it is to be hoped (and expected?) that once Trump loses the next election, politicians will know better than to resort to disparaging nicknames.
They were also aware that he is a straight talker who says what he means, that he does what he says, and that he keeps his electoral promises. He is also NOT a politician.
Like him or hate him - and there is a significant degree of both - that's what got him elected in 2016. Whether it will work again in 2020 remains to be seen.
Regarding the nicknames, this also is not new. Calling candidate Bush 'low energy' was something he never recovered from. All his nicknames contain a kernel of truth. Crooked Hillary was a classic. L'il Marco, Lyin' Ted etc also hit home. Elizabeth Warren's claim of cherokee ancestry has been a source of mirth to many folks for a while. So calling her Pocahontas struck at the heart of her weakness. (Pocahontas was not a cherokee but the daughter of chief Powhatan, head of a group of tribes in the Tidewater of Virginia. She subsequently married an Englishman and is buried at Gravesend in Kent.). It was the one female indian name every American knew.
The nickname was only a mild irritant but for some reason (the Democrats obsession with identity politics perhaps?) she couldn't let it go or laugh it off. So she did this huge event of the TV promo, the man from Stanford doing the DNA test - the whole deal, and it has backfired spectacularly. From here on out, she will always be Pocahontas. Possibly not as fatally damaging as Chappaquiddick, but probably in the end mortal. - and all self-inflicted.
'They were also aware that he is a straight talker who says what he means, that he does what he says, and that he keeps his electoral promises. ‘
You sure about that?0 -
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.0 -
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.0 -
Stannah stair lifts come out against Brexit.0
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We're all entitled to our opinions. I cannot say I agree. Accusations of national arrogance as far I can tell seem to be along the lines of those irregular verbs - it only ever applies to others (this also applies for when people apply it to their own nation and never others).Beverley_C said:0 -
Still, we managed to avoid gassing our jews.Scott_P said:0 -
Wasn't there a fight between the Greenwich meridian and the (what else?) Paris meridian until the mid 1880s? (if memory serves)OblitusSumMe said:
If the single/double summer time people have their way we wouldn't use GMT/UTC for any of the year, which would be an absurdity.grabcocque said:
Technically UTC is, rather than GMT but I'm not that pedantic. Though you'd have to be a very special kind of Tory to think that this gives British people dominion over time itself.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
There's one thing playing to the gallery, which you are right most politicians have done at some point, but she used this to get her preference and victimhood status in institutions.Pro_Rata said:
In one sense, Elizabeth Warren's is a very traditional kind of identity politicking. For how many decades have US politicians emphasised their Irish ancestral lines at the expense of their English ones?notme said:
Totally. It is enjoyable watching the entire fraud that is identity politics and how people who have power in every other way manage to acquire some kind of victimhood that gives them a preference/grievance. In the case of the person in question she used her 'heritage' to get her promoted at her work place.Tim_B said:
She is a fraud - she has claimed for years that her mother and father had to elope to get married because her mother was part Cherokee and part Delaware. The DNA result questions - to put it mildly - that assertion. She has also used this minority claim for years to move her career forward. So Trump calling her Pocahontas struck a chord.Nigelb said:
I agree she is unlikely to get the nomination (and said as much yesterday).Richard_Nabavi said:Elizabeth Warren is toast, surely. Lord only knows what she was trying to achieve with that DNA test, but whatever it was, it has backfired big-time. It has just served to make Trump look right, and make her look petulant, silly, defensive and probably dishonest.
In any case she's the wrong candidate to appeal to the key voters the Dems need to win back, in places like Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan. The Dems need to focus entirely on electability in the key states. They are going to lose again if they indulge themselves with a candidate whose appeal lies mostly in California and the north-east.
Not so much because she's dishonest - I think that is unfair, as this article suggests:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/18/just-about-everything-youve-read-warren-dna-test-is-wrong/
- but because she can't even win a news cycle she instigated.
Against a brazen liar, likely fraudster, and shill for mass murderers.
We see this total demolition happening across the Atlantic while we are the busy process of implementing it here. We keep going and a Trump will emerge here as well.0 -
Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html0 -
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.0 -
Actually it was Barnier's and without agreeing to it he has made clear there will be no transition period and no trade agreement talks.archer101au said:
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.
To protect the Good Friday Agreement the EU will not compromise on its demand Northern Ireland stays in the single market and customs union after the transition period and until a new trading relationship is agreed and there must be no hard border ever in Ireland0 -
Brexit. As predicted and in true May style, can kicking to continue ad nauseam.0
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They do know the age profile of those who buy their products?williamglenn said:Stannah stair lifts come out against Brexit.
0 -
Yup. These are the fraudulent ones. But the whole basis of IP allows people who are successful, wealthy and powerful tell me I am privileged because I am white and male.Sean_F said:
It's rather like Rachel Dolazell, who built her career on being black, and then it turned out she was white.notme said:
Totally. It is enjoyable watching the entire fraud that is identity politics and how people who have power in every other way manage to acquire some kind of victimhood that gives them a preference/grievance. In the case of the person in question she used her 'heritage' to get her promoted at her work place.Tim_B said:
She is a fraud - she has claimed for years that her mother and father had to elope to get married because her mother was part Cherokee and part Delaware. The DNA result questions - to put it mildly - that assertion. She has also used this minority claim for years to move her career forward. So Trump calling her Pocahontas struck a chord.Nigelb said:
I agree she is unlikely to get the nomination (and said as much yesterday).Richard_Nabavi said:Elizabeth Warren is toast, surely. Lord only knows what she was trying to achieve with that DNA test, but whatever it was, it has backfired big-time. It has just served to make Trump look right, and make her look petulant, silly, defensive and probably dishonest.
In any case she's the wrong candidate to appeal to the key voters the Dems need to win back, in places like Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan. The Dems need to focus entirely on electability in the key states. They are going to lose again if they indulge themselves with a candidate whose appeal lies mostly in California and the north-east.
Not so much because she's dishonest - I think that is unfair, as this article suggests:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/10/18/just-about-everything-youve-read-warren-dna-test-is-wrong/
- but because she can't even win a news cycle she instigated.
Against a brazen liar, likely fraudster, and shill for mass murderers.
We see this total demolition happening across the Atlantic while we are the busy process of implementing it here. We keep going and a Trump will emerge here as well.0 -
Yes. The EU will not accept the UK remaining in full alignment as the backstop. If they did, the UK could simply remain in the backstop permanently and maintain frictionless trade with the EU without accepting the four freedoms.Polruan said:
I keep seeing this asserted but have struggled to find any statement to that effect (there have been a lot of statements. I might have missed one). The EU will allow the UK to remain in full alignment because that's a UK matter. The UK can commit to aligning to whatever rules it likes. It gets no benefit, it just becomes a rule taker. It has to make the commitment to not diverge until agreed solutions are found.archer101au said:
She can. But let's be clear - the EU are not offering that; in fact they expressly refuse to allow it.Polruan said:
She agreed to maintain full regulatory alignment in the absence of agreed solutions. She doesn't want to accept the NI concession offered by the EU - fair enough, it has impacts on the UK she doesn't like - but she can still meet the condition by delivering unilateral alignment.archer101au said:
Well, to be fair to May, she did not agree a NI only backstop in December so he is lying.
The EU are saying that even if there was (later) a UK wide Customs Union, there would have to be a regulatory barrier in the Irish Sea because the EU will not accept the UK remaining in 'full alignment' since they consider this cherry picking.
Which is ruling out exactly what was agreed.
But this is still May's fault for agreeing the concept of a backstop in the first place.
The problem with Chequers in this respect was reserving the right to diverge in due course.
What the EU offered was to allow this requirement to be met by NI remaining in SM and CU without having all the normal obligations of a member. It has refused to extend this concessionary offer to the whole UK.
Have I got this right, or has the EU said that the UK voluntarily and unilaterally maintaining full alignment doesn't constitute a backstop?
Therefore, the EU are saying that frictionless trade CANNOT apply across the GB/NI border, creating the need for checks in the Irish Sea. Which is in conflict with what they agreed in December. The EU are utterly dishonest whenever it suits them. This is why nobody will ever trust May saying that the backstop will never be used because she has a non binding agreement with them.
0 -
If there is no deal there is no vote to lose.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.
Cons ditch May and move on.0 -
Only 120 Tory MPs out of over 300 even voted Leave, May got 60% of Tory MPs backing her in 2016 in the 2nd round of the Tory leadership vote against the ERG backed Leadsom and Govearcher101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.0 -
There still haven't been any trade talks, in case you haven't noticed.HYUFD said:
Actually it was Barnier's and without agreeing to it he has made clear there will be no transition period and no trade agreement talksarcher101au said:
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.0 -
May I suggest there is more chance of the Uk achieving a free-ish trade deal with the EU if there is no backstop in place ?HYUFD said:
Actually it was Barnier's and without agreeing to it he has made clear there will be no transition period and no trade agreement talksarcher101au said:
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.
Would certainly focus mind over the channel.0 -
Biden maybe, he is from rustbelt Pennsylvania, not HarrisOldKingCole said:
Biden/Harris looks good, but would they...either of them...... appeal in the Mid-West?HYUFD said:Hickenlooper is too centrist for current Democratic primary voters, Warren, Sanders or Harris look the most likely nominee at the moment. Biden would be the best general election candidate but he will find it a challenge to win once the field narrows down after the first few primaries and caucuses and his main opponent is a left liberal populist
0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_chronometerDavid_Evershed said:
Whilst Einstien claimed time was not constant and indeed supplanted British time with foreign space/time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't forget John Harrison.David_Evershed said:
Greenwich meantime is the standard.grabcocque said:
There you have it: Time was invented by the British.rkrkrk said:
She certainly has a way with words. From a recent speech she gave:grabcocque said:Miss Mordaunt misthought she misheard what she missaid, but she definitely did not. OKAY?
"Our economy is innately international because it was based on ancient routes of international trade. Our modern infrastructures have continued this tradition in shipping, airlines, roads, British law and even time itself."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-future-of-uk-aid-post-brexit0 -
When? Who by? As far as I’m concerned, while Obama didn’t do what he could have done, Trump isn’t fit to lick his boots.Tim_B said:
Taking into account my comments about hyperbole and looseness with the facts, yes. Compared to his predecessor who was named "liar of the year", by the of the most liberal newspapers in the country - wapo- absolutely.OldKingCole said:
ErTim_B said:
Trump has been a major celebrity in the US for over 25 years. His hyperbole, looseness with the facts, even his womanising - are well known to all That is why the "grabbing women by their...." etc exposes have had no effect. He's a flawed and imperfect human being, and the electorate were well aware of that when they elected him. It was all baked in.Dadge said:Re Trump's bullying. If they don't already know so, it is to be hoped (and expected?) that once Trump loses the next election, politicians will know better than to resort to disparaging nicknames.
They were also aware that he is a straight talker who says what he means, that he does what he says, and that he keeps his electoral promises. He is also NOT a politician.
Like him or hate him - and there is a significant degree of both - that's what got him elected in 2016. Whether it will work again in 2020 remains to be seen.
Regarding the nicknames, this also is not new. Calling candidate Bush 'low energy' was something he never recovered from. All his nicknames contain a kernel of truth. Crooked Hillary was a classic. L'il Marco, Lyin' Ted etc also hit home. Elizabeth Warren's claim of cherokee ancestry has been a source of mirth to many folks for a while. So calling her Pocahontas struck at the heart of her weakness. (Pocahontas was not a cherokee but the daughter of chief Powhatan, head of a group of tribes in the Tidewater of Virginia. She subsequently married an Englishman and is buried at Gravesend in Kent.). It was the one female indian name every American knew.
The nickname was only a mild irritant but for some reason (the Democrats obsession with identity politics perhaps?) she couldn't let it go or laugh it off. So she did this huge event of the TV promo, the man from Stanford doing the DNA test - the whole deal, and it has backfired spectacularly. From here on out, she will always be Pocahontas. Possibly not as fatally damaging as Chappaquiddick, but probably in the end mortal. - and all self-inflicted.
'They were also aware that he is a straight talker who says what he means, that he does what he says, and that he keeps his electoral promises. ‘
You sure about that?0 -
I did not like the swearing or the "Enjoy a tantrum" underlying message. Nonetheless I can see no harm in telling people to fill their MP's mailbox if things are not going wellNickPalmer said:
Definitely doesn't work for me - I don't identify with any of the "liberated" people and preferred them in their constrained phase. At one point it felt like a far-right advert - all that British and angry stuff. And I felt that the message was obscure until the very end, and then dealt with only briefly - the viewer could easily miss it.williamglenn said:Marks from the jury for this Remain ad?
https://twitter.com/bestforbritain/status/1052950205962887174?s=21
But I might not be the target audience...0 -
The only way that could possibly happen politically is by it being the position of the Tories at a general election which they win. If a new leader pushing for a no deal brexit without a public vote of some kind (GE or Ref) tried they would be voted down in the house of commons. All of the opposition parties have said as much and there are enough tory remainers to bring down the government.TGOHF said:
If there is no deal there is no vote to lose.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.
Cons ditch May and move on.0 -
There isn't a deal right now.spudgfsh said:
The only way that could possibly happen politically is by it being the position of the Tories at a general election which they win. If a new leader pushing for a no deal brexit without a public vote of some kind (GE or Ref) tried they would be voted down in the house of commons. All of the opposition parties have said as much and there are enough tory remainers to bring down the government.TGOHF said:
If there is no deal there is no vote to lose.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.
Cons ditch May and move on.
Not one to vote on.
0 -
. 0 -
Let's have a look at his Zurich speech:HYUFD said:Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html
Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.
FRIENDS of the New Europe, NOT members.0 -
but there would be an opposition motion or a formal vote of confidence in the government. There doesn't need to be a deal for there to be a vote. indeed, there would have to be a vote to allow a no deal scenario to be the agreed position.TGOHF said:
There isn't a deal right now.spudgfsh said:
The only way that could possibly happen politically is by it being the position of the Tories at a general election which they win. If a new leader pushing for a no deal brexit without a public vote of some kind (GE or Ref) tried they would be voted down in the house of commons. All of the opposition parties have said as much and there are enough tory remainers to bring down the government.TGOHF said:
If there is no deal there is no vote to lose.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.
Cons ditch May and move on.
Not one to vote on.0 -
A national treasure.williamglenn said:.0 -
Churchill doesn't live now, frankly I do not think what he would or would not think was a good idea matters.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Let's have a look at his Zurich speech:HYUFD said:Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html
Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.
FRIENDS of the New Europe, NOT members.0 -
Now that is good (saw one the other day which was a bit lame).williamglenn said:.0 -
To me, the thrust of the article was not National Arrogance, but rather we have allowed a bunch of entitled burkes into positions of power. Looking at the ERG and the like, I find it hard to disagree with that.kle4 said:
We're all entitled to our opinions. I cannot say I agree. Accusations of national arrogance as far I can tell seem to be along the lines of those irregular verbs - it only ever applies to others (this also applies for when people apply it to their own nation and never others).Beverley_C said:
The fools who came up with a plan of "let us leave and everything will be jolly and fine" are the ones who have turned this country into a joke.0 -
Much more appalled I guess that we would ever join an organisation like the EU.HYUFD said:Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html0 -
Indeed plus 55% of voters oppose No Deal with Yougov anyway so most likely No Deal leads to EUref2 sooner or later and Remain, we know around 40 Tory MPs would vote for EUref2 if No Deal led by Amber Rudd and May has confirmed she will refer back to Parliament if No Dealspudgfsh said:
The only way that could possibly happen politically is by it being the position of the Tories at a general election which they win. If a new leader pushing for a no deal brexit without a public vote of some kind (GE or Ref) tried they would be voted down in the house of commons. All of the opposition parties have said as much and there are enough tory remainers to bring down the government.TGOHF said:
If there is no deal there is no vote to lose.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.
Cons ditch May and move on.0 -
Remainers are really going for broke....HYUFD said:
Indeed plus 55% of voters oppose No Deal with Yougov anyway so most likely No Deal leads to EUref2 sooner or later and Remain, we know around 40 Tory MPs would vote for EUref2 if No Deal led by Amber Rudd and May has confirmed she will refer back to Parliament if No Dealspudgfsh said:
The only way that could possibly happen politically is by it being the position of the Tories at a general election which they win. If a new leader pushing for a no deal brexit without a public vote of some kind (GE or Ref) tried they would be voted down in the house of commons. All of the opposition parties have said as much and there are enough tory remainers to bring down the government.TGOHF said:
If there is no deal there is no vote to lose.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.
Cons ditch May and move on.0 -
She is toast. Over and over again, EU leaders are expressing disbelief that she is still talking about Chequers. The Cabinet can see that she has no ability to get an acceptable deal and no ability to lead in the event of no deal. They will move on her soon. She will never be allowed to go to another EU summit.HYUFD said:
Only 120 Tory MPs out of over 300 even voted Leave, May got 60% of Tory MPs backing her in 2016 in the 2nd round of the Tory leadership vote against the ERG backed Leadsom and Govearcher101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.0 -
The backstop still has not been agreedarcher101au said:
There still haven't been any trade talks, in case you haven't noticed.HYUFD said:
Actually it was Barnier's and without agreeing to it he has made clear there will be no transition period and no trade agreement talksarcher101au said:
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.0 -
Yes. Perhaps they are willing to take short term pain for long term gainMarqueeMark said:
They do know the age profile of those who buy their products?williamglenn said:Stannah stair lifts come out against Brexit.
0 -
No, they haven't. They have offered us a series of deals depending on the level of alignment with ongoing EU law we are prepared to accept. We largely get to keep our rights to live, work and study in the EU27 if we accept a rule-taking deal that keeps us in the Single Market, we get to keep the just in time supply chains that our auto industry depends on if we stay inside a version of the Customs Union. If we decide against either of these, we lose both - which are clear benefits of our current membership. These are but two examples, of course. A combination of mendaciousness, stupidity and laziness saw the Buccaneers make promises that were impossible for any government to keep. May then compounded things by drawing her absurd red lines and triggering A50 with no idea of how to get to the conclusion of the process.archer101au said:
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.
0 -
Nope, without keeping NI in the single market and customs union the EU have made clear there will be no trade talks for the UKTGOHF said:
May I suggest there is more chance of the Uk achieving a free-ish trade deal with the EU if there is no backstop in place ?HYUFD said:
Actually it was Barnier's and without agreeing to it he has made clear there will be no transition period and no trade agreement talksarcher101au said:
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.
Would certainly focus mind over the channel.0 -
Italy EU budget fight moves up a notch
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/mehr-wirtschaft/eu-kommission-weist-italiens-haushalt-zurueck-15845426.html0 -
If he was alive he would be 143 years old, and I'm willing to wager that demographic would be quite leavey.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Let's have a look at his Zurich speech:HYUFD said:Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html
Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.
FRIENDS of the New Europe, NOT members.0 -
Mrs May is in the ERG ? That is news..Beverley_C said:
bunch of entitled burkes into positions of power. Looking at the ERG and the like, I find it hard to disagree with that..kle4 said:
We're all entitled to our opinions. I cannot say I agree. Accusations of national arrogance as far I can tell seem to be along the lines of those irregular verbs - it only ever applies to others (this also applies for when people apply it to their own nation and never others).Beverley_C said:0 -
Although he also said 'The future of Europe, if Britain were to be excluded, would be black indeed'Sunil_Prasannan said:
Let's have a look at his Zurich speech:HYUFD said:Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html
Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.
FRIENDS of the New Europe, NOT members.0 -
It's not good if it needs explaining!kle4 said:
Now that is good (saw one the other day which was a bit lame).williamglenn said:.0 -
WC was prime minister when the founding 6 set up the ECSC which we refused to join. I can't see that it'd not been his position.notme said:
Much more appalled I guess that we would ever join an organisation like the EU.HYUFD said:Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html0 -
? I didn't explain it. I was merely suggesting as good as he is, they aren't always good.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It's not good if it needs explaining!kle4 said:
Now that is good (saw one the other day which was a bit lame).williamglenn said:.0 -
No she is not. You are delusional. Only 120 Tory MPs out of over 300 voted Leave, most Tory MPs voted Remain.archer101au said:
She is toast. Over and over again, EU leaders are expressing disbelief that she is still talking about Chequers. The Cabinet can see that she has no ability to get an acceptable deal and no ability to lead in the event of no deal. They will move on her soon. She will never be allowed to go to another EU summit.HYUFD said:
Only 120 Tory MPs out of over 300 even voted Leave, May got 60% of Tory MPs backing her in 2016 in the 2nd round of the Tory leadership vote against the ERG backed Leadsom and Govearcher101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
May is moving towards a SM plus CU backstop for NI it is just the GB position she needs a vague agreement on and the Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period are agreed0 -
Well they only said that as they knew May would fold.HYUFD said:
Nope, without keeping NI in the single market and customs union the EU have made clear there will be no trade talks for the UKTGOHF said:
May I suggest there is more chance of the Uk achieving a free-ish trade deal with the EU if there is no backstop in place ?HYUFD said:
Actually it was Barnier's and without agreeing to it he has made clear there will be no transition period and no trade agreement talksarcher101au said:
It is a very easy trade deal - the EU have already offered it.SouthamObserver said:
It's time for the Buccaneering Brexiteers to deliver on that promised easiest trade deal in the world with all the upsides of being in the EU and none of the downsides. Clearly, given how simple it is going to be it will be all done by Christmas.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes, we have to clear the air. The Tories need to give Barnier Theresa's head on a pike. Thereafter, get someone with transparent intentions who isn't always desperate to ride two horses. Someone from either side of the Brexit divide will do - A Boris or a Ken Clarke. Nothing succeeds like clarity itself.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
The problem is the backstop. Did the ERG demand this? Did the Leavers in the Cabinet demand that she do it? Did the DUP tell her that she must agree a backstop?
No. The reason for the failure of these negotiations is the backstop. That was all May's idea.
Would certainly focus mind over the channel.0 -
It's a shame that the market research woman at Sunshine Desserts means nothing to you. I am sure you would think it was a serious character.HYUFD said:
Only 120 Tory MPs out of over 300 even voted Leave, May got 60% of Tory MPs backing her in 2016 in the 2nd round of the Tory leadership vote against the ERG backed Leadsom and Govearcher101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.0 -
And once the transition period expires with no trade deal ?HYUFD said:
No she is not. You are delusional. Only 120 Tory MPs out of over 300 voted Leave, most Tory MPs voted Remain.archer101au said:
She is toast. Over and over again, EU leaders are expressing disbelief that she is still talking about Chequers. The Cabinet can see that she has no ability to get an acceptable deal and no ability to lead in the event of no deal. They will move on her soon. She will never be allowed to go to another EU summit.HYUFD said:
Only 120 Tory MPs out of over 300 even voted Leave, May got 60% of Tory MPs backing her in 2016 in the 2nd round of the Tory leadership vote against the ERG backed Leadsom and Govearcher101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
May is moving towards a SM plus CU backstop for NI it is just the GB position she needs a vague agreement on and the Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period are agreed
Toasted May all round - with the Con GE chances on top.
0 -
Says the King of Comedy!Sunil_Prasannan said:
It's not good if it needs explaining!kle4 said:
Now that is good (saw one the other day which was a bit lame).williamglenn said:.
0 -
Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories. Their choice would be between swinging toward Remain or trying to stay balanced upon the fence.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.0 -
Didn't WSC once propose a union with France?spudgfsh said:
WC was prime minister when the founding 6 set up the ECSC which we refused to join. I can't see that it'd not been his position.notme said:
Much more appalled I guess that we would ever join an organisation like the EU.HYUFD said:Brian Cox 'Churchill would have been appalled at Britain leaving the EU'
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/actor-brian-cox-churchill-would-have-been-appalled-by-britain-leaving-eu-a3965621.html0 -
The latter. It's cynical as all hell, but if they can pull it off for just one more election they win.IanB2 said:
Labour can never out-Brexit the Tories. Their choice would be between swinging toward Remain or trying to stay balanced upon the fence.spudgfsh said:
whatever happens, nothing will change the arithmetic within the house of commons. The only thing that will do that is a general election.TGOHF said:
One can hope - and not before time. Time for a Brexit PM.archer101au said:
Please. May doesn't have any idea where she is heading. But shortly, to the unemployment line. The wheels are coming off - I think the Cabinet will step in next week.HYUFD said:
EEA+CU indefinitely is exactly what May is heading towards now anywaygrabcocque said:
I honestly think they'd be overjoyed. If the Tories send her to the farm to be put down, a caretaker leader (say David Davis) could do a deal with Corbyn, transition quickly to EEA+CU, and then have all the time in the world to negotiate Canada Plus Infinity.Philip_Thompson said:Only resolution to this crisis seems to be to oust May, say the backstop is dead and do they want to talk or not. If they don't we have a few months to prepare for no deal. If they do we can get a deal.
May has failed.
It really isn't THAT hard. But it can't happen until somebody shoots May.
The question is, what will the position of either of the main parties be on Brexit? Labour's constructive ambiguity won't wash a second time, especially at the sharp end of Brexit. While the Tory party's position could be anything depending on who is leader and whatever their position is, it won't alter the divisions within the party.0
