politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there is a second referendum then the hardline Brexiters sh
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there is a second referendum then the hardline Brexiters should take the blame
Excellent by @robertshrimsley on the dangers of a 2nd referendum https://t.co/bOi05az8Y4 pic.twitter.com/2o3LwcjRyU
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And that would be so ironic
In a way though I do understand if people think Brexit is so terrible they will seek to remain (by voting down any deal and hoping for the nest) even at the risk of no deal, and understand those for who a potential second referendum leading to remain is worth risking rather than a truly terrible Brexit.
But personally I think once we're out it'll take utter catastrophe to lead us to get back in, and the real fight is over how much divergence there will be over time. Sure, it can be argued that not doing it enough begs the question why leave in the first place, but if in practical terms there are few immediate changes how many remainers would prefer that to chaos, and how many leavers could accept it even for an extended period if it cuts off any closer ties, and gives more of an option of greater divergence, even if that is not taken up as much as it could be?
I really don't think remainers have given up the fight enough yet to take the suggested strategy, not enough of them. Too many hope it can all be stopped, so that won't save a deal, and the harder Brexiteers seem willing to throw the dice.
I would assume that TM and the EU would be very upbeat and in some ways the EU are likely to say this is the best you will achieve
The public will want it to pass and those playing political games could see a huge backlash
As for the public wanting it to pass, will they? People are probably generically in favour of things passing, but not in the specificity. Don't polls show support for all manner of options without overwhelming backing for any one of them.
It will be a very important vote though, it is why I struggle to believe anyone will abstain, as some theories suggest might happen. I'm not a fan of abstentions anyway, but on this?
I’m uncertain what Remainers should do. Militantly refusing to accept complicity in a national catastrophe seems reasonable, even if it leads to a worse outcome in the short term.
How can you "lose" something you haven't got and aren't going to get?
But I cannot believe the idea that Westminster had no intention of taking us out of the EU. Sure a majority did not want to do it, but they do not have the skill or discipline to manufacture a scenario such as we now have. Indeed, the nature of that situation - confused, chaotic, floundering - is an everyday demonstration they are barely keeping head above water trying to bring about a very difficult idea in as least disruptive way possible. They couldn't merely have half arsed it and gotten to this juncture.
Every single bloody thing which goes wrong will continue to be blamed on Europe, rather than our dysfunctional political and economic system.
If you are not content lets stay in
Good night all.
I wouldn't want him to agree with me about the time of day...
But all of these groups now think a no deal scenario will play into their hands.
The ERG think it will lead to their preferred outcome, namely a no deal Brexit.
The Labour leadership think it will lead to their preferred outcome, namely a general election.
Until recently some Labour remainers thought that their best hope was to secure a soft Brexit, and they might have been open to persuasion if May proposed such a deal. But now they think an approaching no deal will lead to their preferred outcome, namely a second referendum which will reverse the result of the first.
So all of these groups will say that May's deal is crap (and it probably will be crap). So they won't support it. And therefore it is extremely hard to see how she can get a deal through Parliament.
I doubt the deal with carry a title but it is in the country's interest to move past withdrawal and into transistion. If that is stopped a second referendum becomes very possible and ERG risk losing the lot and brexit disappearing over the horizon for years
emphasis added
https://www.ft.com/content/bad4d6e4-cad2-11e8-9fe5-24ad351828ab
https://www.ft.com/content/bad4d6e4-cad2-11e8-9fe5-24ad351828ab
Anything other than more bloody Brexit .......
If you think that the only concern that Remain voters have expressed is about not leaving, you simply haven’t been paying attention. There were an abundance of points where the government could have sought to address Remain voters’ concerns. Instead, it has consistently chosen to offend them. The end result is that Theresa May is now imploring them for support after spending two years using them as target practice. Unsurprisingly the public is unimpressed.
I hope everyone has a pleasant nights rest
Good night folks
Mr Meeks is wrong - Remainers and Leavers have had a dialogue of the deaf - responsibility lies on both sides. But it appears to reinforce his evidently fragile sense of moral superiority to claim its all Leavers' fault.
He couldn't be arsed. Too much detail, hard work, not enough opportunity for grandstanding speeches or heavily renumerated columns.
Philip Hammond is a Leaver?
Deep cover.......
As for the professionally offended who have sat on the sidelines waiting for an apology and an acknowledgement of their superior intellect and judgement, well who cares? They are irrelevant by choice and we are bored of their wingeing.
Why don't you try answering the point.
How much energy have Remain supporters devoted to:
Accepting 'Brexit' and trying to improve it.
vs
Re-running the referendum.
A No Deal Brexit though is not sustainable, most voters oppose it and if that was the outcome either a second referendum before the ending of March Brexit date leading to a Remain win or the UK ultimately staying in the single market is the most likely outcome
Campaign. Which they have. Energetically. For a second referendum
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/elections-poll-txsen-2.html
I am sure the Leavers will justify my investments in popcorn companies, regardless of the outcome.
EDIT I see @Beverley_C thinks similarly.
Fair enough, such a deal may well be in our interests, but your bizarre perception that this government has not sought to address Remainers concerns is truly laughable. They have done nothing else.
The sunlit uplands of Brexit so we were told are more like economic hell.
You have to wonder if people are sick of austerity, what will they say when the economy goes down the plug hole in a hard Brexit. The tail has wagged the dog for too long. The ERG loons won the battle I.e. the vote but lost the war IMO. The whole edifice of easy trade deals, ending of immigration, money for the NHS etc has been shown to be a croc of shit.
Those who supported Brexit are gullible fools!
We? Who is "we"? The UK? Remainers? Leavers?
Personally I will enjoy listening to Leavers whinging about "another fine mess that they have gotten us into" as a well known clown used to phrase it. Schadenfreude is a terrible thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXLQzWzXBK4
Whether that means we must reach a completely new customs agreement, become an associate member of the Customs Union in some way, or remain a signatory to some elements of it, I hold no preconceived position.