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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s now 1/6 that the Kavanagh nomination will go through

SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited October 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s now 1/6 that the Kavanagh nomination will go through

After being briefed by the FBI today and having the opportunity to read the report myself, I am now even more confident in Judge #Kavanaugh’s nomination and fitness for the court. (1/2)

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020
    edited October 2018
    https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1047937575594446853
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020
    https://twitter.com/kristindonnelly/status/1047939958647017474
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Vanilla ate my hamster. Kavanaugh is misspelt in the header.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,020
    Lock him up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited October 2018
    So when's the actual vote on his confirmation?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    edited October 2018
    This process isn't so much the FBI going through the motions as the entire US system of government wading through deep motion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited October 2018
    ydoethur said:

    This process isn't so much the FBI going through the motions as the entire US system of government wading through deep motion.

    They do love their procedures and motions and hearings and inquest and...

    Probably a boon, in other times - they do seem to have rules for almost everything it seems.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This process isn't so much the FBI going through the motions as the entire US system of government wading through deep motion.

    They do love their procedures and motions and hearings and inquest and...

    Probably a boon, in other times.
    That wasn't quite what I meant...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited October 2018
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This process isn't so much the FBI going through the motions as the entire US system of government wading through deep motion.

    They do love their procedures and motions and hearings and inquest and...

    Probably a boon, in other times.
    That wasn't quite what I meant...
    I figured. But they seem to like it even then! Just more opportunity for the other lot to be more covered in sludge, figuratively and procedurally.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This process isn't so much the FBI going through the motions as the entire US system of government wading through deep motion.

    They do love their procedures and motions and hearings and inquest and...

    Probably a boon, in other times.
    That wasn't quite what I meant...
    I figured. But they seem to like it even then!
    Hugh Dalton, in his final illness, became constipated. A nurse told him she would give him an enema so he could have a motion. Amused by her coyness, Dalton replied, 'I was in Parliament many years, and it taught me you cannot have a motion without a debate, young lady.'
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,356
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This process isn't so much the FBI going through the motions as the entire US system of government wading through deep motion.

    They do love their procedures and motions and hearings and inquest and...

    Probably a boon, in other times.
    That wasn't quite what I meant...
    I figured. But they seem to like it even then!
    Hugh Dalton, in his final illness, became constipated. A nurse told him she would give him an enema so he could have a motion. Amused by her coyness, Dalton replied, 'I was in Parliament many years, and it taught me you cannot have a motion without a debate, young lady.'
    ...and then she shoved a spigot up his arse.

    Pause.

    Smartarse patients :):)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,298
    You're Kavanaugh laugh! :)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,356
    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    We are probably, at this moment, more politically paralysed than at any time since the fall of the second (or third, depending a bit on whether you count the Bedchamber crisis) Melbourne ministry in 1841.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    We are probably, at this moment, more politically paralysed than at any time since the fall of the second (or third, depending a bit on whether you count the Bedchamber crisis) Melbourne ministry in 1841.
    Yes...the bedchamber crisis...of which we are all familiar of course. I, er, do count it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    We are probably, at this moment, more politically paralysed than at any time since the fall of the second (or third, depending a bit on whether you count the Bedchamber crisis) Melbourne ministry in 1841.
    Yes...the bedchamber crisis...of which we are all familiar of course. I, er, do count it.
    In Cannock they talk of little else, m'lud!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,874
    Tw@tter should be fun tommorow :D
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    When does this referendum get held?

    We are about 5 months out from leaving

    There is no time and it isn't going to happen
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    When does this referendum get held?

    We are about 5 months out from leaving

    There is no time and it isn't going to happen
    I don't think it likely either, I expect a Withdrawal Agreement but witH FTA left hanging, in Blind Brexit.

    As such a vote to Remain is impossible.

    The only viable means would be via A50 extension, as proposed by Boris. I am sure the EU would not object.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    We are probably, at this moment, more politically paralysed than at any time since the fall of the second (or third, depending a bit on whether you count the Bedchamber crisis) Melbourne ministry in 1841.
    And it's all down to the interests of the Tory Party being placed before those of the country in a way which is probably unparalleled in British history since the 17th century.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    I know, I know. But I reckon a way would be found. There is almost certainly a majority in parliament for Remain as against No Deal.
    Whether a referendum is likely to happen or not is less important than its probable result.

    And on that I agree with your super intelligent friend. Leave would win by a handy margin. The public do not like sore losers and I can't see anyway that a second referendum escapes being framed in that way. Many Remainers will unwittingly aid that framing by being unable [still!] to avoid moaning about the bus of lies.

    Oh well.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    anothernick said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    We are probably, at this moment, more politically paralysed than at any time since the fall of the second (or third, depending a bit on whether you count the Bedchamber crisis) Melbourne ministry in 1841.
    And it's all down to the interests of the Tory Party being placed before those of the country in a way which is probably unparalleled in British history since the 17th century.
    It's not the Tories who have said they'll vote against any deal with the EU irrespective of what's in such a deal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    The only way I see a second referendum being possible is if May brings a deal to the HoC and they reject it. At that point all bets would be off but I just can’t believe that that would happen. If she comes back with a deal (and that is still odds on, if not the nailed on probability it once was) it will go through Parliament with the help of remainers who fear the alternative of a no deal Brexit. Leavers will wail but it will go through, we will leave, however nominally, and the moment for a second referendum will have passed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    SeanT said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    When does this referendum get held?

    We are about 5 months out from leaving

    There is no time and it isn't going to happen
    I don't think it likely either, I expect a Withdrawal Agreement but witH FTA left hanging, in Blind Brexit.

    As such a vote to Remain is impossible.

    The only viable means would be via A50 extension, as proposed by Boris. I am sure the EU would not object.
    FWIW I don't agree with my friend that the chances of a 2nd vote are anything like 80%.

    30-50%? Yes.
    In my hypothesised Blind Brexit, options would narrow to the range EEA to WTO, and a #peoplesvote may then occur on the direction of Brexit, in which EEA may well win. I suspect both sides would be exhausted by then.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    OblitusSumMe said:

    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    I know, I know. But I reckon a way would be found. There is almost certainly a majority in parliament for Remain as against No Deal.
    Whether a referendum is likely to happen or not is less important than its probable result.

    And on that I agree with your super intelligent friend. Leave would win by a handy margin. The public do not like sore losers and I can't see anyway that a second referendum escapes being framed in that way. Many Remainers will unwittingly aid that framing by being unable [still!] to avoid moaning about the bus of lies.

    Oh well.
    There would be the "sore loser" vote to Leave, but also the "lets forget the whole mess" vote to Remain.

    I don't think the result can be predicted in advance, as the voters can be keen to kick the party in power, as they so often do in Referendums, and the party in power is the vote to Leave. The anti-establishment vote comes to Remain.

    Such a referendum would also take place in the context of complete collapse of government, so in a very volatile time. Anything could happen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    I think the Withdrawal Agreement would pass, even if it meant Irish Sea customs* until Dec 2020, not least because everyone would want more time to plan and to keep other options alive.

    Not likely to involve much as regulatory alignment would continue, by inertia if no other reason. The DUP would be annoyed, but outvoted by Labour moderates.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,186
    edited October 2018
    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    Absolutely.

    Doesn't half make you wonder about all your Chinese-made products.

    More-than-doubly so if you are a government or large corporation, I suspect.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    We are probably, at this moment, more politically paralysed than at any time since the fall of the second (or third, depending a bit on whether you count the Bedchamber crisis) Melbourne ministry in 1841.
    Yes...the bedchamber crisis...of which we are all familiar of course. I, er, do count it.
    The squabble between Sarah Churchill and Abigail Masham for the, er, favours of Queen Anne would make today’s politicians blush...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    a holding position for the next 5 years at least. While we come to our senses and work out what we want, long term.

    The membership deal we had...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    SeanT said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    When does this referendum get held?

    We are about 5 months out from leaving

    There is no time and it isn't going to happen
    I don't think it likely either, I expect a Withdrawal Agreement but witH FTA left hanging, in Blind Brexit.

    As such a vote to Remain is impossible.

    The only viable means would be via A50 extension, as proposed by Boris. I am sure the EU would not object.
    FWIW I don't agree with my friend that the chances of a 2nd vote are anything like 80%.

    30-50%? Yes.
    In my hypothesised Blind Brexit, options would narrow to the range EEA to WTO, and a #peoplesvote may then occur on the direction of Brexit, in which EEA may well win. I suspect both sides would be exhausted by then.

    Isn’t it a bit pretentious to capitalise a term which you, and only you, use?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    And if it is 3 and we vote to remain,doesn't that put you a Grand out of pocket ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2018
    Newsnight has apparently got a big story on DNA and how it affects people's lives. Sounds interesting...
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    I don't see it.

    Short of the DUP willing to put Labour into power, option 2 is a no go. The tories aren't going to risk an election when they have a workable majority.

    Absent a deal, what would a another vote ask ? Leave versus Remain has been done.

    Option 1 just happens without intervention by process of law and time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    a holding position for the next 5 years at least. While we come to our senses and work out what we want, long term.

    The membership deal we had...
    We need to leave before we can judge that. It is almost certainly true that remain would have been good for us but any attempt to snatch away leave will be far worse. We can rejoin at some point if the climate changes and the EU does as well
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,186
    edited October 2018
    MyBurningEars said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    Absolutely.

    Doesn't half make you wonder about all your Chinese-made products.

    More-than-doubly so if you are a government or large corporation, I suspect.
    People laughed at US being down on ZTE and huawei as some weird trump stunt about va-China...huawei’s core business is commercial network products...I believe the UK government has a lot of their products.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,356
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    This does rather assume that a second referendum can be held, and that Remain would be an option upon it. As @Casino_Royale pointed out last night, there may not be a majority in Parliament for a second referendum of any description, let alone a Remain/Leave one.
    We are probably, at this moment, more politically paralysed than at any time since the fall of the second (or third, depending a bit on whether you count the Bedchamber crisis) Melbourne ministry in 1841.
    Yes...the bedchamber crisis...of which we are all familiar of course. I, er, do count it.
    The squabble between Sarah Churchill and Abigail Masham for the, er, favours of Queen Anne would make today’s politicians blush...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYb-wkehT1g
  • RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    OblitusSumMe said:



    Many Remainers will unwittingly aid that framing by being unable [still!] to avoid moaning about the bus of lies.

    The bus of lies that was again demolished by the PM yesterday when she mentioned, again, the £390-odd million extra per week for the NHS by the end of the parliament...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    asjohnstone said:

    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    I don't see it.

    Short of the DUP willing to put Labour into power, option 2 is a no go. The tories aren't going to risk an election when they have a workable majority.

    Absent a deal, what would a another vote ask ? Leave versus Remain has been done.

    Option 1 just happens without intervention by process of law and time.
    That’s why I think when push comes to shove remainers will back May’s deal. The risk of a no deal Brexit in the event of it being voted down is just too high.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,186
    edited October 2018
    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman. The debate isn’t if it is technically possible, is it that apple / amazon / us government have said the article isn’t correct.

    If the report is true, Apple acted like total twats and caused a delay in this getting exposed.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,705
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    a holding position for the next 5 years at least. While we come to our senses and work out what we want, long term.

    The membership deal we had...
    That is one of the worst options and one reason why we're leaving.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    DavidL said:

    The only way I see a second referendum being possible is if May brings a deal to the HoC and they reject it. At that point all bets would be off but I just can’t believe that that would happen. If she comes back with a deal (and that is still odds on, if not the nailed on probability it once was) it will go through Parliament with the help of remainers who fear the alternative of a no deal Brexit. Leavers will wail but it will go through, we will leave, however nominally, and the moment for a second referendum will have passed.

    I agree with that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    This is what happens if you threaten to take action over media reports and then fail to do so. It can be presented as an admission of guilt.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1047946190225113089
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1047965619314995200
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,663
    MyBurningEars said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    Absolutely.

    Doesn't half make you wonder about all your Chinese-made products.

    More-than-doubly so if you are a government or large corporation, I suspect.
    Pretty bloody stupid by the Chinese.
    It won’t happen overnight, but the big tech companies will look for alternative sourcing for their products.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,186
    MikeSmithson said:

    This is what happens if you threaten to take action over media reports and then fail to do so. It can be presented as an admission of guilt.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1047946190225113089

    No, this is what happens if you hang out with terrorists...
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited October 2018
    SeanT said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    And if it is 3 and we vote to remain,doesn't that put you a Grand out of pocket ?
    Er, yeah
    If 3 does happen then we can expect a Scottish referendum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    DavidL said:

    asjohnstone said:

    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    I don't see it.

    Short of the DUP willing to put Labour into power, option 2 is a no go. The tories aren't going to risk an election when they have a workable majority.

    Absent a deal, what would a another vote ask ? Leave versus Remain has been done.

    Option 1 just happens without intervention by process of law and time.
    That’s why I think when push comes to shove remainers will back May’s deal. The risk of a no deal Brexit in the event of it being voted down is just too high.
    Should be perhaps. But people have shown a remarkable belief that they will get their way, even if the path to it looks unclear (that is hardly a remainer only trait of course), and for the chance that remain could still happen in the chaos of a vote on something failing? And bearing in mind it will take possibly dozens of them to have to rebel against the whip to do this, and this time in support of the government?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1047965619314995200

    That woman looks remarkably happy for someone who has just been shot in the head.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1047965619314995200

    That woman looks remarkably happy for someone who has just been shot in the head.
    It was a golf ball
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    SeanT said:

    FWIW

    https://twitter.com/profsked/status/1047963648965201920

    No tick. Is that account legit?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    SeanT said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    SeanT said:

    BREXIT ANECDOTAGE INCOMING

    Strange conversation with a very well informed, well connected, and super intelligent lady friend today. She predicted the Brexit win and the Trump win. She's centre right and was a reluctant Remainer.

    She told me that 1. her strongly Remainer, successful businessman husband has switched to Leave, because of the behaviour of the EU

    2. Yet she also put the chances of a 2nd referendum at 70/30, or 80/20, because no deal (including no deal) can be pushed through parliament, so the politicians will be forced to ask the people again

    3. She predicted that if and when that happened, there was a very good chance Leave would win again, by a bigger margin

    Clearly she is speculating wildly, but she is highly astute and also knows a lot of clever and senior political people. So there ya go.

    When does this referendum get held?

    We are about 5 months out from leaving

    There is no time and it isn't going to happen
    I don't think it likely either, I expect a Withdrawal Agreement but witH FTA left hanging, in Blind Brexit.

    As such a vote to Remain is impossible.

    The only viable means would be via A50 extension, as proposed by Boris. I am sure the EU would not object.
    FWIW I don't agree with my friend that the chances of a 2nd vote are anything like 80%.

    30-50%? Yes.
    In my hypothesised Blind Brexit, options would narrow to the range EEA to WTO, and a #peoplesvote may then occur on the direction of Brexit, in which EEA may well win. I suspect both sides would be exhausted by then.

    Isn’t it a bit pretentious to capitalise a term which you, and only you, use?
    Not just me, indeed my preferred term is "Limbo Brexit", for example:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/weve-always-been-heading-for-a-blind-brexit_uk_5b72db46e4b0bdd0620cebd3?guccounter=1&guce_referrer_us=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_cs=6vqiyArIrNlNFUpmVHP3cg

    The simple truth is that there is no time for a detailed FTA before Brexit, so any "Deal" would inevitably be WA plus vague promise, to be negotiated later. That vague promise would need another Treaty post Brexit.

    Blind Brexit is a useful shorthand for this scenario.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,186
    SeanT said:

    Relatedly, it is intriguing how much the French hate Macron. Even as he struts the global stage.

    twitter.com/post_liberal/status/1047966488399958019

    He does a fantastic job of giving the impression of being totally detached from the man in the street...which the opposite of what most politicos try to do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,000
    Beverley_C said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1047965619314995200

    That woman looks remarkably happy for someone who has just been shot in the head.
    It was a golf ball
    Always said it was a bloody stupid game.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    AndyJS said:

    Newsnight has apparently got a big story on DNA and how it affects people's lives. Sounds interesting...

    I've heard DNA can have a big affect on people's lives....


    I'll get my coat. :p
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SeanT said:

    Relatedly, it is intriguing how much the French hate Macron. Even as he struts the global stage.

    twitter.com/post_liberal/status/1047966488399958019

    He does a fantastic job of giving the impression of being totally detached from the man in the street...which the opposite of what most politicos try to do.
    A bit refreshing though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SeanT said:

    Relatedly, it is intriguing how much the French hate Macron. Even as he struts the global stage.

    twitter.com/post_liberal/status/1047966488399958019

    He does a fantastic job of giving the impression of being totally detached from the man in the street...which the opposite of what most politicos try to do.
    He doesn't have another election for nearly 4 years, and then he just needs to be in the top 2 again.

    I think he will have his place in history by then.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,270
    Time to go

    Have a pleasant nights rest everyone

    Good night folks
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,186
    edited October 2018
    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SeanT said:

    Relatedly, it is intriguing how much the French hate Macron. Even as he struts the global stage.

    twitter.com/post_liberal/status/1047966488399958019

    He does a fantastic job of giving the impression of being totally detached from the man in the street...which the opposite of what most politicos try to do.
    He doesn't have another election for nearly 4 years, and then he just needs to be in the top 2 again.

    I think he will have his place in history by then.
    He was lucky that the French system is as it is and le pen waspopular enough to get in the top 2, but so repulsive to 60% of the French.

    Policy wise he seems very sensible, trying to reform labour laws etc, but he really does seem to have a way of acting superior. A key thing that Blair tried not to do.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    DavidL said:

    asjohnstone said:

    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    I don't see it.

    Short of the DUP willing to put Labour into power, option 2 is a no go. The tories aren't going to risk an election when they have a workable majority.

    Absent a deal, what would a another vote ask ? Leave versus Remain has been done.

    Option 1 just happens without intervention by process of law and time.
    That’s why I think when push comes to shove remainers will back May’s deal. The risk of a no deal Brexit in the event of it being voted down is just too high.
    A few months ago I would have agreed with that but now I think there isn't a genuine belief amongst remainers in Labour, and some Tories, that they can reverse Brexit through a second referendum. This will have been encouraged by the vehemence with which the idea was denounced at the Tory conference, which suggests that leavers see the idea as a serious threat.

    So May now faces three groups of opponents, all of whom think rejection of her deal will play into their hands. The Labour leadership thinks it will lead to a general election, Labour remainers and the people's vote campaigners think it will lead to a second referendum and the ERG think it will lead to a no deal Brexit. So none of these groups will support May and thus she will be unable to get what will inevitably be a pretty crap deal through parliament.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    The Chinese penetration of server hardware is not such big news when you realise the West has been pulling that stunt for years of focussing on the hardware as the entry point, not the software. A couple of very large US companies were quite helpful in that effort as well. Lot of kit that went into competitor nations was compromised.

  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Simplfying massively ....

    The small chip only has connect to an external computer and download a larger piece of software into memory. Computer firewalls often do not block outgoing traffic, particularly if that traffic originates from a process identifying itself as a security admin.

    The larger piece of software can then be loaded into memory and tagged as a top-level process and then run unimpeded.

    Helpfully, :D:D in many server systems, any software tagged as belonging to userId 0 (zero) has the highest level of security clearance on the machine, so tagging rogue software is not a difficult process.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    SeanT said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    SeanT said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    SeanT said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Yet again: a referendum does not absolutely need Parliament’s sanction. Australia just had a non-statutory referendum on gay marriage.

    The bigger question is whether the government could ever be persuaded to want one. Time is not really the question.

    If every deal gets voted down (as Labour threaten) and the only alternatives become 1. No deal, 2. A General Election, or 3. A 2nd vote, I reckon the Tories/Commons would go for 3.
    And if it is 3 and we vote to remain,doesn't that put you a Grand out of pocket ?
    Er, yeah
    If 3 does happen then we can expect a Scottish referendum again.
    If it's 3 I do not expect a 2nd Scotch referendum, and if it happened I think YES would lose by a larger margin.

    If Brexit has proved anything (and I am a reluctant Leaver) it is that trying to break up economic/political unions is enormously messy, tedious, divisive and barely possible. And the UK has been closely intertwined for 300 years, not 45.
    Try Scottish, scotch is something you drink or tomatoes. Sorry, just realised which one was your preference..
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    Absolutely.

    Doesn't half make you wonder about all your Chinese-made products.

    More-than-doubly so if you are a government or large corporation, I suspect.
    People laughed at US being down on ZTE and huawei as some weird trump stunt about va-China...huawei’s core business is commercial network products...I believe the UK government has a lot of their products.
    Apple are emphatic in their denials. Not using cagey legalese. But firmly saying no this didn’t happen.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Beverley_C said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
    Doesn't a photon appear to be stationary relative to another photon moving in the same direction?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Cuts. Southern trains running it.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    SeanT said:

    Beverley_C said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
    Except information between observed particles on a quantum level, which appears to travel at infinite speed: literally taking no time at all.
    Only if the particles have a quantum entanglement. There also appears to be a restriction on "meaningful" information however that is defined.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,205
    Lib Dems gain Chesterfield(Moor) from Labour. Tony Rogers wins back his seat at the age of 80.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
    Doesn't a photon appear to be stationary relative to another photon moving in the same direction?
    Everything is stationary to a photon because no time passes for a photon
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,965
    Oh dear long day.

    WTF am I watching QT

    And now I'm not
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Beverley_C said:

    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
    Doesn't a photon appear to be stationary relative to another photon moving in the same direction?
    Everything is stationary to a photon because no time passes for a photon
    OK, so relative to that photon light moves slower ;)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    bigjohnowls said:

    Oh dear long day.

    WTF am I watching QT

    And now I'm not

    Are they still broadcasting that dreadful programme? Surely it should have been put down years ago as an act of kindness to the nation.

    Is it still followed by the Diane and Michael show?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,965
    LD Gain Moor ward Chestefield
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,349
    Beverley_C said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Oh dear long day.

    WTF am I watching QT

    And now I'm not

    Are they still broadcasting that dreadful programme? Surely it should have been put down years ago as an act of kindness to the nation.

    Is it still followed by the Diane and Michael show?
    Yes, but Diane no longer does it since being a front bencher. Its Chuka tonight.

    BBCQT pretty lame again tonight.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,965
    11% swing to LD from Labour Moor Ward Chesterfield 49/37
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    Brexit fails to deal with reality. Quantum Physics is reality.

    It makes a refreshing change...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Foxy said:

    Beverley_C said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    Oh dear long day.

    WTF am I watching QT

    And now I'm not

    Are they still broadcasting that dreadful programme? Surely it should have been put down years ago as an act of kindness to the nation.

    Is it still followed by the Diane and Michael show?
    Yes, but Diane no longer does it since being a front bencher. Its Chuka tonight.

    BBCQT pretty lame again tonight.
    It was lame when I gave it up years ago - five or six years, maybe more....
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,965
    Goodnight
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
    Doesn't a photon appear to be stationary relative to another photon moving in the same direction?
    Everything is stationary to a photon because no time passes for a photon
    OK, so relative to that photon light moves slower ;)
    Well... yes.... in the sense that nothing moves from a photon's point of view. So on the basis that "stationary" is slower than not-stationary .....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Beverley_C said:

    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
    Doesn't a photon appear to be stationary relative to another photon moving in the same direction?
    Everything is stationary to a photon because no time passes for a photon
    OK, so relative to that photon light moves slower ;)
    Well... yes.... in the sense that nothing moves from a photon's point of view. So on the basis that "stationary" is slower than not-stationary .....
    Just saying that light does move at different speeds depending on their motion. It's all relative ;)
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,578
    edited October 2018
    Beverley_C said:

    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    Brexit fails to deal with reality. Quantum Physics is reality.

    It makes a refreshing change...
    I remember in my uni course (special relativity) there were questions like 'if you ran into a 10m shed with a 5m ladder at 1/3 of the speed of light, how much of the ladder would fit into the shed?' (or something like that)

    Of all the things that would help me travel at 1/3 of the speed of light, carrying a damn ladder? How impractical!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,965
    LD win Moor by 87 votes 532/445
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    Beverley_C said:

    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    Brexit fails to deal with reality. Quantum Physics is reality.

    It makes a refreshing change...
    :). Glad you stuck around
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    tpfkar said:

    Beverley_C said:

    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    Brexit fails to deal with reality. Quantum Physics is reality.

    It makes a refreshing change...
    I remember in my uni course (special relativity) there were questions like 'if you ran into a 10m shed with a 5m ladder at 1/3 of the speed of light, how much of the ladder would fit into the shed?' (or something like that)

    Of all the things that would help me travel at 1/3 of the speed of light, carrying a damn ladder? How impractical!
    Was that a trick question? A 5m ladder always fits in a 10m shed regardless of speed.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Overly simplifying: I imagine because hardware trumps software. The chip's code can be operating even if the sofware/coding says otherwise because the chip is itself providing the code.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    dixiedean said:

    Beverley_C said:

    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    Brexit fails to deal with reality. Quantum Physics is reality.

    It makes a refreshing change...
    :). Glad you stuck around
    I never went. I was halfway through my rant when everyone arrived home and demanded feeding.... so I stopped in mid-rant.

    Domesticity rules :D
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    RobD said:

    Beverley_C said:

    OchEye said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    DavidL said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The real big story today, Chinese spying. If true, a totally different level of spying and we should all be worried.

    There is a high degree of computer expertise on this board and this most emphatically does not include me but I am having real problems in understanding how an extra chip would affect control or the operation of a motherboard. Surely the instructions for how chips operate is in the software/coding? Unless the chip had some built in code that operated when triggered to do so? Is that even possible?

    As I say I would love to tap the expertise available on this.

    The original Bloomberg article does a decent job of explaining this for the layman.
    Well not this one because I read it. It said that a chip smaller than a grain of rice had been added to the motherboard. It claimed that this chip allowed access to the system once it was in place giving control or access to the remote user. It didn’t say how.
    Please explain why nothing can exceed the speed of light.. ..
    Nothing can exceed the speed of light because light travels at the same speed for all observers irrespective of their actual motion.

    Basic relativity :)
    Doesn't a photon appear to be stationary relative to another photon moving in the same direction?
    Everything is stationary to a photon because no time passes for a photon
    OK, so relative to that photon light moves slower ;)
    Physics.

    Even harder than Brexit.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    Apologies. I see you got there before me!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    Anazina said:

    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    dixiedean said:

    See people have finally decided Brexit is a bit bloody complex...and moved on to quantum physics...

    Apologies. I see you got there before me!
    Relative speed ,my friend .
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Looking at the maths, who is going to vote for a TMay deal ?

    250 Tory mps at most. Lib Dems will probably back it.

    There the ERG Götterdämmerung squad or perhaps 45 - 50 MPs who will vote against anything short of the Treaty of Troyes.

    Where do the other 75 votes comes from ?

    30 or 40 labour MPs maybe ? Corbyn will surely prefer to collapse the government. Burn the house down and take over in the ashes.

    It may all come down to the 35 SNP members, would they really vote for a "tory brexit" ? The best chance of another Indy Ref is no deal, they just need to have clean hands.

    Tricky.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    asjohnstone said:

    Looking at the maths, who is going to vote for a TMay deal ?

    250 Tory mps at most. Lib Dems will probably back it.

    There the ERG Götterdämmerung squad or perhaps 45 - 50 MPs who will vote against anything short of the Treaty of Troyes.

    Where do the other 75 votes comes from ?

    30 or 40 labour MPs maybe ? Corbyn will surely prefer to collapse the government. Burn the house down and take over in the ashes.

    It may all come down to the 35 SNP members, would they really vote for a "tory brexit" ? The best chance of another Indy Ref is no deal, they just need to have clean hands.

    Tricky.

    In a Noel Edmonds vote sufficient opposition MPs will abstain.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    WAPO on Kavanagh impeachment:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/2018/10/04/if-kavanaugh-is-confirmed-impeachment-could-follow-heres-how/?__twitter_impression=true
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/Cat_Headley/status/1047898461339881472?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,186
    edited October 2018
    Interesting move by Amazon....they are now streaming their NFL Thursday night rights on their Twitch platform. Not only is the Twitch tech incredible quality (puts the iPlayer to shame), it is free, so you don't even need Amazon Prime.

    I wonder if they will do the same with their Premier League football rights?

    If I was Sky, I would be crapping it. I think Rupert Murdoch might be secretly be very happy to be exiting just before Amazon steamroller gets moving.
This discussion has been closed.

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