politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you’re betting on the next Lib Dem leader the field could a

Casino_Royale said:

Jonathan said:

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Jonathan said:

In another universe, Clegg didn’t enter a coalition in 2010. After the failure of the 2011-2016 Tory govt, Cleggs Lib-Lab coalition are taking us into the Euro.

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

That seems to be the question Vince Cable is asking too. Hence his plan.

Not much of a plan, is it? We're shit and we need to parachute some fecker in who can actually engage with the public and come up with something that doesn't involve us chewing off the EU?

I suspect Cable is hoping for a Macron. You can select from the current crop of MPs. To be fair they are decent pavement politicians. Getting elected as a Lib Dem MP is hard work when the natural order is one of the main parties. They are good at potholes but so much on the bigger picture. Heather remains firmly unalight. So you find someone able to articulate an idea that can resonate.and bring new people in. There are plenty reasons why this might not work, aired on his forum. The Devils Advocate would say, what's to lose?

Macron came from the governing party where he was a popular minister in an unpopular administration. Not sure we have a Macron.

And is now very unpopular.

It is amazing how fast his star has fallen

ralphmalph said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

It went out the window when after the vote leavers were call thick, racist northerners.
All this by so called "centre" parties full of moderates.

Centre party is code for I want my sort of politics (socially liberal, internationalist and economically moderate) to win with a peer group (middle class, professional and educated) that I feel comfortable with.

I get that but if you want to win an election you need to reach out to all voters.

Treating them with respect and engaging with them sincerely to find solutions to their concerns is a good start.

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

A new centre party?

Wash your mouth out with soap. You're a Conservative Party member.

It is needed to provide opposition. The government needs a functioning opposition

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scotland being outclassed by Belgium 0 - 3

I think only France are probably a stronger side than Belgium at the moment, they're stacked.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

A new centre party?

Wash your mouth out with soap. You're a Conservative Party member.

It is needed to provide opposition. The government needs a functioning opposition

I'd say Labour need to chunk Corbyn.

But, I doubt that will happen.

Casino_Royale said:

Jonathan said:

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Jonathan said:

In another universe, Clegg didn’t enter a coalition in 2010. After the failure of the 2011-2016 Tory govt, Cleggs Lib-Lab coalition are taking us into the Euro.

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

That seems to be the question Vince Cable is asking too. Hence his plan.

Not much of a plan, is it? We're shit and we need to parachute some fecker in who can actually engage with the public and come up with something that doesn't involve us chewing off the EU?

I suspect Cable is hoping for a Macron. You can select from the current crop of MPs. To be fair they are decent pavement politicians. Getting elected as a Lib Dem MP is hard work when the natural order is one of the main parties. They are good at potholes but so much on the bigger picture. Heather remains firmly unalight. So you find someone able to articulate an idea that can resonate.and bring new people in. There are plenty reasons why this might not work, aired on his forum. The Devils Advocate would say, what's to lose?

Macron came from the governing party where he was a popular minister in an unpopular administration. Not sure we have a Macron.

And is now very unpopular.

In the French 2 round system, that is often the way. As long as a candidate is in the top 2, they stand a good chance, even if their popularity is 20%.

It is a bit different here of course.

Pulpstar said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scotland being outclassed by Belgium 0 - 3

I think only France are probably a stronger side than Belgium at the moment, they're stacked.

Now 0 - 4

And on the subject of Scotland wth some thinking labour are in with a chance (not me) the conservatives took a seat from labour last night in Inverkeithing (Gordon Browns backyard)

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

Jonathan said:

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Jonathan said:

In another universe, Clegg didn’t enter a coalition in 2010. After the failure of the 2011-2016 Tory govt, Cleggs Lib-Lab coalition are taking us into the Euro.

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

That seems to be the question Vince Cable is asking too. Hence his plan.

Not much of a plan, is it? We're shit and we need to parachute some fecker in who can actually engage with the public and come up with something that doesn't involve us chewing off the EU?

I suspect Cable is hoping for a Macron. You can select from the current crop of MPs. To be fair they are decent pavement politicians. Getting elected as a Lib Dem MP is hard work when the natural order is one of the main parties. They are good at potholes but so much on the bigger picture. Heather remains firmly unalight. So you find someone able to articulate an idea that can resonate.and bring new people in. There are plenty reasons why this might not work, aired on his forum. The Devils Advocate would say, what's to lose?

Macron came from the governing party where he was a popular minister in an unpopular administration. Not sure we have a Macron.

And is now very unpopular.

It is amazing how fast his star has fallen

To be fair, I'm not sure the French like anyone.

I'm sitting here drinking English sparkling wine (Chapel Down) and it's beautiful. Nicer than several French champagnes I've tried.

I thought Macron likes himself though

YBarddCwsc said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

When moderate parties fail to address problems for decades, then parts of the electorate turn to extreme parties.

There is no point in forming a moderate party that will do nothing. Any moderate party has to have ideas on how tackle e.g., intergenerational unfairness or increasing wealth inequality or costs of social care.

My belief is that the time for moderate parties may be over in the West for a while. Moderate parties work best when economic and political circumstances are benign. & only gradual change is needed.

When substantial change is needed, moderate parties are no good. They are not able to take unpopular decisions.

My view is that for the foreseeable future moderate parties have very little chance. The electorate seems to want radical solutions. Corbyn, Brexit.
Not surprising seeing as the moderate parties have produced lots of failed wars, financial collapse, massive changes in society and the complete loading of their own and their families and mates pockets with geld.

FrancisUrquhart said:

no fee to join and vote...It will be McShouty McBoaty Face for Lib Dem leader...

I'd be surprised if the membership put that up as one of the nominations, to be honest. Or if McShouty McBoaty Face was even a member.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

A new centre party?

Wash your mouth out with soap. You're a Conservative Party member.

It is needed to provide opposition. The government needs a functioning opposition

A functioning government would be a decent start, Big G.

The_Taxman said:

I think you have to look at what Cable is saying in a wider context.

Several senior MPs have this summer mentioned a period of National Government being the only way out of the Brexit Malaise and the extremist take over of the Labour party. Nicholas Soames and Mike Gapes have even mentioned it on the floor of the H of C.

I think Cable might well be positioning the Lib Dems a survival strategy as surely the Lib Dem MPs would take part in any National Government. If all Lib Dem MPs were involved in a Government of National unity, then someone needs to lead the non parliamentary party!

The scenario is as follows, the PM cannot get Chequers through parliament. The Tory Brexiteers launch a leadership contest. The PM invites dissident moderate Labour MPs and the Lib Dems into Government. She then calls an election whereby moderate Tories, Labour and all LD are all under the Coupon of National Government candidates. The central theme of the National Government ticket is to maintain the UK in the EU and to retract Article 50 should she win. If this scenario did occur, what would the Brexiteers do such as Johnson, Fox and Rees - Mogg. Would they risk defeat under a non National banner? I suspect Johnson would rather be pissing inside the tent than outside and Fox likes being in power hence his non resignation this summer! Just saying, the above scenario is a possibility and we should not judge Cable today as being anything other than intelligent given the wider context.

Hi Elon

*waves*

Can I have a puff?

Casino_Royale said:

Jonathan said:

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Jonathan said:

In another universe, Clegg didn’t enter a coalition in 2010. After the failure of the 2011-2016 Tory govt, Cleggs Lib-Lab coalition are taking us into the Euro.

FF43 said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

That seems to be the question Vince Cable is asking too. Hence his plan.

Not much of a plan, is it? We're shit and we need to parachute some fecker in who can actually engage with the public and come up with something that doesn't involve us chewing off the EU?

I suspect Cable is hoping for a Macron. You can select from the current crop of MPs. To be fair they are decent pavement politicians. Getting elected as a Lib Dem MP is hard work when the natural order is one of the main parties. They are good at potholes but so much on the bigger picture. Heather remains firmly unalight. So you find someone able to articulate an idea that can resonate.and bring new people in. There are plenty reasons why this might not work, aired on his forum. The Devils Advocate would say, what's to lose?

Macron came from the governing party where he was a popular minister in an unpopular administration. Not sure we have a Macron.

And is now very unpopular.

These things are relative. Emanuel Macron is a little less unpopular than Theresa May and a lot less unpopular than Jeremy Corbyn.

Jonathan said:

In another universe, Clegg didn’t enter a coalition in 2010. After the failure of the 2011-2016 Tory govt, Cleggs Lib-Lab coalition are taking us into the Euro.

And a Boris or Davis led Tories win a landslide in 2015

Andrew said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

.... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).

I am a big fan of Musk, and I said the other day his get shit done attitude is fantastic. But man oh man, he didn't come off "a bit weird", he was a combination of f##king bonkers and weirdly unable to understand / answer simple questions


e.g. Rogan said man you have all these companies, how do you find the time to manage it all.

Which to most normal people the answer would then go down a path of telling you something about their daily / weekly schedule and also informing Rogan that a lot of things are delegated. I think over the 3hrs, he asked this question, with slightly different spins 3-4 times and each time Musk just didn't get what he was asking for and the conversation descended into really weird directions that were totally unrelated.

It was an incredibly painful listen.

Jonathan said:

MJW said:

Jonathan said:

MJW said:

Jonathan said:

So Labour MPs escape they create a centrist party with the Lib Dem’s. It does exceptionally well, gets 50-100 seats and holds the balance of power between the two big parties stuck mid 200s.

What next?

Not gonna happen but if it did, probably a coalition with Labour (and the SNP if required) implementing most of Labour's social and economic policies on the condition Corbyn, Milne and co aren't allowed anywhere near No. 10. Would be perfect, in power and you send the cranks into a marginalised frenzy and reunite Labour as a sensible party again.

Well , we can dream, eh?

So exactly the same as staying put, but with less chance of it happening.

As soon as Labour wins power, assuming a small majority, organised backbenchers become very powerful.

Not in Corbyn's Labour. The mob is already powerful and will only get more so. Imagine he does win a narrow election - MPs aren't going to be able to turf him out without being utterly destroyed by the Momentum hordes. Plus, there's the moral question.

To pass laws or do anything you need them to vote for you.

a) The most principled anti-Corbynites will face deselection or being pushed out long before the election - they've already began picking off those they can. Woodcock, via the alleged lack of due process and the leak of a complaint, then Field, and now we have Ryan, Leslie and Shuker targeted for deselection - and how many others to come.

Part of the entire point of Corbynism is to stop Labour acting like a traditional political party - where there are safeguards in place to grant MPs a degree of independence and which doesn't view any deviation as a form of treachery meriting exclusion - and to make one that can be controlled through democratic centralism led by an activist core that will stick to the leadership's line and rigidly enforce it through a party democracy it controls.

MPs won't be able to just Corbyn elected as PM and then repeat his own awkward squad tactics. If they make it that far, it'll be tow the line, support Jez, or we're coming for you. They already are.

Andrew said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

.... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).

Are any of them making a profit, or are they all pyramid schemes?

Evening all

Vince's proposals won't get a very warm welcome from much of the party. No one has any problem with the notion of "registered supporters" - indeed, the more active areas probably have good records of "supporters" as defined as those willing to deliver or help but not willing to become members and I'm more than happy for such supporters to be kept informed of local events.

I would absolutely draw the line at non-members being able to choose the leader - it opens the door to the sort of absurd entryism we've seen in both the Labour and Conservative parties where those ill-disposed toward the party seek to influence a leadership election by voting for the individual least suited to lead the party.

I also believe the leader has to be an MP irrespective of how "shallow" the pool of talent may be and I don't agree the LDs are short of talent. I think both Layla Moran and Jo Swinson would make excellent leaders and I really hope we have a contest this time.

ralphmalph said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

When moderate parties fail to address problems for decades, then parts of the electorate turn to extreme parties.

There is no point in forming a moderate party that will do nothing. Any moderate party has to have ideas on how tackle e.g., intergenerational unfairness or increasing wealth inequality or costs of social care.

My belief is that the time for moderate parties may be over in the West for a while. Moderate parties work best when economic and political circumstances are benign. & only gradual change is needed.

When substantial change is needed, moderate parties are no good. They are not able to take unpopular decisions.

My view is that for the foreseeable future moderate parties have very little chance. The electorate seems to want radical solutions. Corbyn, Brexit.
Not surprising seeing as the moderate parties have produced lots of failed wars, financial collapse, massive changes in society and the complete loading of their own and their families and mates pockets with geld.

The problem is that neither of those radical solutions are actually solutions - like all populist projects they're just loudly shouting about (admittedly real) problems and then pointing at people and saying it's their fault, get rid of them, vote for us, we'll solve them. Which is why both will ultimately fail - hopefully before the cost to us is too great.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

A new centre party?

Wash your mouth out with soap. You're a Conservative Party member.

It is needed to provide opposition. The government needs a functioning opposition

A functioning government would be a decent start, Big G.

And that is why a functiong opposition is needed. If labour were led by Starmer or similar they would be out of sight

Hope it happens but is there any polling support for this?

FrancisUrquhart said:

Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

I haven't been able to face listening to the whole thing yet. I'm off alcohol atm, and I fear I might need a drink or five to reach a plain of consciousness where it all makes sense...

Philip_Thompson said:

Anazina said:

williamglenn said:

The_Taxman said:

Freggles said:

I can't see the problem with this proposal tbh. Are we worried about legions of extreme centrists?

The Tories should do the same for their leadership contests in the future, after all they have had open primaries for MP positions so why not an open leadership contest with the whole of the population invited to engage? Indeed, in the longer run it could be used to change Conservative voters into Conservative members. Some extremists will engage but if they are open to entryism at the moment from the far right, then opening the franchise completely will stop extremists in their tracks.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671348849647198208

Let’s all laugh at Trumpton.

Heads up, Hillary smashed him by three million votes.

The electoral college saved him, but that’s rather different.

No it's not. That's like if Liverpool beat Man Utd 4-0 and Mourinho claimed that United smashed Liverpool on possession. It was only goals that saved Liverpool.

Hillary and the DNC ignored the electoral college to their peril. Winning California by over 4 million votes achieved little. Trump targeted midwest blue states with a laser-like focus that got him elected. Had Hillary not neglected those states she'd be in the oval office.

I think Trump just campaigned where he could draw a crowd, like Corbyn in 2017. The buzz created then carried elsewhere.

Hillary never could work a crowd in the same way, neither could May.

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1038165373651230720

14 days...thats not a typo? That doesn't seem like any punishment at all.

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Casino_Royale said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

A new centre party?

Wash your mouth out with soap. You're a Conservative Party member.

It is needed to provide opposition. The government needs a functioning opposition

A functioning government would be a decent start, Big G.

The Government is actually doing a bloody good adminstrative dayjob. And I don't say that lighjtly.

It's just the drama of Brexit is consuming its whole profile, and most of its legislative programme.

Theresa May is just demonstrating why being crap at politics matters. Everyone ends up thinking your whole administration is shite.

That very well may be the case, Casino, but......no matter who seems to be in charge, the country still runs. Now, I grant you, putting me in charge might see an uptick in the quality of the governmental cars/expense accounts/ jaunts to far away luxury resorts expenditure, but I'm sure the Civil Service would keep things ticking.

Actually I think it's more than that.

The problem is the constant 24/7 desire to be seen to "do something". Blair was the worst for it constantly needing new initiatives, new press releases or when that didn't work an annual reshuffle. The problem is that it takes time to bed in what has been done, get used to it, understand it, let it filter through society etc

The constant "must do something" nature of modern politics has tainted it and is against doing a good administrative day job.

I think the government now is doing a good job because of, not despite of, the distraction of Brexit. The distraction of Brexit is meaning that constant fidgeting by press release is getting stymied. Instead of being constantly seen to do something, the government is just concentrating on what it needs to do.

If all governments were so distracted we'd be better off.

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?

I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?

The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.

But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?

Philip_Thompson said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Casino_Royale said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Casino_Royale said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I saw some stills from a pro Brexit demo and the hatred on the faces was dreadful. Same hatred as you see from the hard left.

It is time for the vast majority of normal decent people to rise up and strike this evil from our Country.

Where has tolerance and decency gone. A new centre ground party would be a good start

A new centre party?

Wash your mouth out with soap. You're a Conservative Party member.

It is needed to provide opposition. The government needs a functioning opposition

A functioning government would be a decent start, Big G.

The Government is actually doing a bloody good adminstrative dayjob. And I don't say that lighjtly.

It's just the drama of Brexit is consuming its whole profile, and most of its legislative programme.

Theresa May is just demonstrating why being crap at politics matters. Everyone ends up thinking your whole administration is shite.

That very well may be the case, Casino, but......no matter who seems to be in charge, the country still runs. Now, I grant you, putting me in charge might see an uptick in the quality of the governmental cars/expense accounts/ jaunts to far away luxury resorts expenditure, but I'm sure the Civil Service would keep things ticking.

Actually I think it's more than that.

The problem is the constant 24/7 desire to be seen to "do something". Blair was the worst for it constantly needing new initiatives, new press releases or when that didn't work an annual reshuffle. The problem is that it takes time to bed in what has been done, get used to it, understand it, let it filter through society etc

The constant "must do something" nature of modern politics has tainted it and is against doing a good administrative day job.

I think the government now is doing a good job because of, not despite of, the distraction of Brexit. The distraction of Brexit is meaning that constant fidgeting by press release is getting stymied. Instead of being constantly seen to do something, the government is just concentrating on what it needs to do.

If all governments were so distracted we'd be better off.

You're right, a Corbyn endlessly discussing the Nabka would probably let things tick over just fine.

We have a hung parliament, and aminority government not planning to implement its own manifesto. It is not Brexit that has been preventing busy government, it was the electorate.

Nigelb said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1038165373651230720

14 days...thats not a typo? That doesn't seem like any punishment at all.

Plea bargain ?

I guess it probably is, but why 14 days. I mean really, what's the point.

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?

I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?

The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.

But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?

You are not saying I am a half wit are you

Casino_Royale said:

The Government is actually doing a bloody good adminstrative dayjob. And I don't say that lighjtly.

It's just the drama of Brexit is consuming its whole profile, and most of its legislative programme.

Theresa May is just demonstrating why being crap at politics matters. Everyone ends up thinking your whole administration is shite.

I see you are now the resident pro-Government apologist. The damage the process of A50 has done and the failure to move a raft of other issues forward will come out in time.

The crisis in local Government finance which I mentioned earlier today deepens and I suspect Hammond will be forced to spend millions bailing out BOTH Conservative and labour run councils who can't manage to fund the required levels of adult and child social care.

We have Crossrail which is an unmitigated disaster - a year late and £600m over budget. - but the twerp of a Transport Minister we have does nothing.

I agree a competent Opposition would be tearing lumps out of this Government but as they can't or won't I suppose I'll have to instead.

Scott_P said:

twitter.com/BBCHelenaLee/status/1038167485730701313

The Commies, The Russians, The Iranians....anybody else? The Jews...oh no wait, its the other way around.

Andrew said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

.... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).

He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

SpaceX is a vanity

Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman

Big_G_NorthWales said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?

I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?

The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.

But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?

You are not saying I am a half wit are you

Big G, we have all voted for the current crop of politicians. Possibly some form of mass hallucination. I'd strongly advocate not voting for any of 'em.

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCHelenaLee/status/1038167485730701313

Roshan Salih also runs the Islamist website, 5pillars.uk.com, which has on its board some well-known Islamists such as Moazzem Begg of Cage.

A mixture of Respect and the SWP is what Labour is slowly turning into.

Charles said:

Andrew said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

.... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).

He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

SpaceX is a vanity

Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman

$20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/

Interestingly on the podcast, he himself said he wasn't a businessman, and he described himself as an engineer.

Anazina said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1038129113683451904

Just a brilliant campaign for Nike.

Known in the trade as conflict marketing - of which this will take some beating.

Just do it.

One thing bugs me though. How does he get his football helmet on over that magnificent Afro?

Foxy said:

Anazina said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1038129113683451904

Just a brilliant campaign for Nike.

Known in the trade as conflict marketing - of which this will take some beating.

Just do it.

One thing bugs me though. How does he get his football helmet on over that magnificent Afro?

Well he doesn't.....given he hasn't played for 2 seasons.

Foxy said:

Andrew said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

.... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).

Are any of them making a profit, or are they all pyramid schemes?

He sold his share in Paypal to fund the other ventures, but it’s currently making around $2.5bn annual profit, I think.
SpaceX could be profitable, but is spending a lot in R&D. Plenty of cash, and a valuable asset, as there would be no shortage of buyers were it ever up for sale.

Tesla is the big gamble, but I suspect will succeed. At the very worst it would get bought out if Musk were to run out of cash.

None are pyramid schemes.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

*POLL ALERT*

It sounds like this poll could trigger a market HYUFD adjustment.

Now careful - that is as unlikely as he is to back remain but reading his comments could be interesting

I actually voted Remain and an obviously triggered Daily Mail poll with questions phrased to get the result they want for a weekend story really means very little.

In any case as I have already said if Boris goes down, it is just Mogg, Davis or Patel who go up instead, it does not benefit pro Chequers Deal candidates

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

*POLL ALERT*

It sounds like this poll could trigger a market HYUFD adjustment.

Now careful - that is as unlikely as he is to back remain but reading his comments could be interesting

I actually voted Remain

I know so are you having second thoughts

stodge said:

I agree a competent Opposition would be tearing lumps out of this Government but as they can't or won't I suppose I'll have to instead.

Conservative Party status: shit-scared......

FrancisUrquhart said:

Musk told the Guardian by email: “Guardian is the most insufferable newspaper on planet Earth”.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/sep/07/tesla-chief-elon-musk-smokes-marijuana-on-live-web-show

For an American he has a rather insightful knowledge into the UK's press then.

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Foxy said:

Anazina said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/MarketWatch/status/1038129113683451904

Just a brilliant campaign for Nike.

Known in the trade as conflict marketing - of which this will take some beating.

Just do it.

One thing bugs me though. How does he get his football helmet on over that magnificent Afro?

Well he doesn't.....given he hasn't played for 2 seasons.

He had the barnet then too though, didn't he?.

Perhaps he had a helmet the size of a beachball?

I don't think it was until his last season he had it, which was when he sat on the bench most of the time.

stodge said:

Casino_Royale said:

The Government is actually doing a bloody good adminstrative dayjob. And I don't say that lighjtly.

It's just the drama of Brexit is consuming its whole profile, and most of its legislative programme.

Theresa May is just demonstrating why being crap at politics matters. Everyone ends up thinking your whole administration is shite.

I see you are now the resident pro-Government apologist. The damage the process of A50 has done and the failure to move a raft of other issues forward will come out in time.

The crisis in local Government finance which I mentioned earlier today deepens and I suspect Hammond will be forced to spend millions bailing out BOTH Conservative and labour run councils who can't manage to fund the required levels of adult and child social care.

We have Crossrail which is an unmitigated disaster - a year late and £600m over budget. - but the twerp of a Transport Minister we have does nothing.

I agree a competent Opposition would be tearing lumps out of this Government but as they can't or won't I suppose I'll have to instead.

Piss off, Stodge. On all counts.

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Foxy said:

Philip_Thompson said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

That very well may be the case, Casino, but......no matter who seems to be in charge, the country still runs. Now, I grant you, putting me in charge might see an uptick in the quality of the governmental cars/expense accounts/ jaunts to far away luxury resorts expenditure, but I'm sure the Civil Service would keep things ticking.

Actually I think it's more than that.

The problem is the constant 24/7 desire to be seen to "do something". Blair was the worst for it constantly needing new initiatives, new press releases or when that didn't work an annual reshuffle. The problem is that it takes time to bed in what has been done, get used to it, understand it, let it filter through society etc

The constant "must do something" nature of modern politics has tainted it and is against doing a good administrative day job.

I think the government now is doing a good job because of, not despite of, the distraction of Brexit. The distraction of Brexit is meaning that constant fidgeting by press release is getting stymied. Instead of being constantly seen to do something, the government is just concentrating on what it needs to do.

If all governments were so distracted we'd be better off.

You're right, a Corbyn endlessly discussing the Nabka would probably let things tick over just fine.

We have a hung parliament, and aminority government not planning to implement its own manifesto. It is not Brexit that has been preventing busy government, it was the electorate.

That's been the same basically since 2010 too.

I doubt Corbyn would want to do nothing and just let things tick over, that's the problem.

If by chance Corbyn did just do nothing and just let things tick over that'd be a relief.

Charles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Charles said:

Andrew said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

.... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).

He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

SpaceX is a vanity

Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman

$20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/

So bollocks then

(Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)

Well those list always are...but I doubt he is short of reddies.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

Beverley_C said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

What's the point of the Lib Dems?

What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?

I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?

The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.

But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?

You are not saying I am a half wit are you

Big G, we have all voted for the current crop of politicians. Possibly some form of mass hallucination. I'd strongly advocate not voting for any of 'em.

But I am not a half wit by staying loyal to my party even though I attack it's hard Bexit fantasies and the ridiculous Boris

Big G, Hard Brexit was in the 2017 manifesto. It isn’t a fantasy; it’s government policy.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/NaomiMc/status/1038091348828676101

Thats funny

Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.