Based on comments, it's clear that some respondents haven't sweated themselves to actually read Goodwin's article. My takeaways:
It explains why the LDs are wallowing in the single digits. There's a good chunk of the electorate who are quite Old Labour in their outlook, and don't much care for the 'retail offer' of any of the parties.
It's also a harbinger of the likely doom of any UK En Marche equivalent; we're just not in the market for Macrons or Trudeaus.
May is likely in trouble. If you squint enough, folk don't want to leave the EU as a goal; they want reduced immigration. Just relabelling FoM as a 'mobility framework' will not sell. That opposition to immigration is emotional rather than financial (or we could just call 'em xenophobes, because that'll change their minds).
Exactly, and it’s one of the main reasons why I’ve long been sceptical of the argument that a Labour moderate would have the party 10+ points ahead of the Conservatives. Or that a ‘centrist’ party would be successful.
Another great day on PB when PB's bien pensant (let's guess, largely) white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters discuss the ins and outs and traditions of Islam and the UK's muslims.
Tell me about it.
I’m fully expecting Philip Thompson to be able recite the Shahada.
Another great day on PB when PB's bien pensant (let's guess, largely) white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters discuss the ins and outs and traditions of Islam and the UK's muslims.
Having thought about it I am even more concerned about this if it is true that this reflects the women's mindset than if it is something imposed upon them. For me, immigrants are welcome as long as they integrate and accept our values. This is a very visible demonstration of a repudiation of those values and a desire to stay apart.
Of course we have always accepted counter-cultures up to a point, whether punks, goths, or tattoo aficionados but there is something particularly disturbing (to me) to have such a mindset based around a medieval religion. I still tend to the bans are wrong tendency but I really don't like it.
That is precisely my point. It's not the fact of you or I not liking it which is the issue. It is the fact that such an attitude (and all else that goes with it) is bad for social cohesion in our society. I do not want fellow female British citizens to be required to live in such a way, merely because their ancestors' culture requires it. If some British men have this attitude to some British women - that this is what modesty requires - what does this say about their attitude to other British women who do not dress in this way? That they are immodest? That they are therefore fair game? We have seen the consequences of this attitude in our criminal courts. Allowing this sort of mindset to take hold affects all of us.
The other point is that we are seeing the spread of this attitude amongst people who are not immigrants but who are the second, third or fourth generation - i.e. people born and educated here. The fact that they are becoming ever more separate drives a coach and horses through the lazy assumption often made by those in favour of immigration from very different cultures, namely, that they will integrate over time. This shows that this assumption is not necessarily true, at least for some cultures. And that has implications for public policy which need addressing (and which are not addressed by infantile articles jeering at what garments look like but then saying it's ok to have them).
You and David sound like your parents.
Both my parents were immigrants. And knew something about what integration into British society means in practice, as do I as someone whose mother tongue is not English, who belongs to a minority religion (in Britain anyway) and who spent most of my childhood living in two countries and spending a lot of time in a third.
There are moments in Casino Royale where you catch genuine moments of brilliance and think maybe, finally, Bond can escape from the rut of campy decline that has been its hallmark since the 1990s.
But then you watch every other Craig Bond movie and realise, no, it was just a blip.
Another great day on PB when PB's bien pensant (let's guess, largely) white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters discuss the ins and outs and traditions of Islam and the UK's muslims.
We are discussing the effect on our society, of which they are a part. No man being an island and all that. Or perhaps you don't believe in that, which would be ironic, given the subject matter.
The attitude of men to women's dress and what it says about their view of women is something that affects all women, whatever their religion or culture is.
Incredible. Scenario planning for a Corbyn government is being undertake by activists, looking at all the threats they will face.
Here's just one of a big list:
"A backlash from the generals and MI5
– Work on the assumption that MI6 and the military are not sympathetic and will work against a possible Corbyn government. – Have to identify the difference between covert and overt action. For example, the use of the state against the miners and activists and covert action by MI5/6 and the military. – Challenge the idea that “that kind of thing doesn’t happen here” by explaining some past events –e.g. Conspiracy against Wilson government; troops at Heathrow in 1974 during period of political and economic crisis.* – Beware of threat of blackmailing senior labour figures. – Understand how the state can sow discord inside leftist organisations, creating an atmosphere of paranoia and distrust. – Learn from the coping tactics of communities who are singled out by the state e.g. Muslim communities and other minorities. Build mutual solidarity with them. – Openly confront secret services and make public what they are doing and make them accountable for their actions. – Be on the lookout for whistleblowers and leaks from within the state. – Use the existence of a mass movement to defend the government. – Work with organisations and left lawyers to develop an alternative legal system"
Another great day on PB when PB's bien pensant (let's guess, largely) white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters discuss the ins and outs and traditions of Islam and the UK's muslims.
"white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters..."
Yep.
Apart from working in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, Algeria, Senegal, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Turkey...oh and holidaying in Morocco and Jordan - yes, your sneering condescension was spot on.
Another great day on PB when PB's bien pensant (let's guess, largely) white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters discuss the ins and outs and traditions of Islam and the UK's muslims.
"white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters..."
Yep.
Apart from working in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, Algeria, Senegal, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Turkey...oh and holidaying in Morocco and Jordan - yes, your sneering condescension was spot on.
Another great day on PB when PB's bien pensant (let's guess, largely) white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters discuss the ins and outs and traditions of Islam and the UK's muslims.
"white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters..."
Yep.
Apart from working in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, Algeria, Senegal, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Turkey...oh and holidaying in Morocco and Jordan - yes, your sneering condescension was spot on.
How many British muslims lived in those places?
I've met more Muslims, talked to more Muslims than probably most everybody on this board.
And if you think there was no overlap between British and Pakistani Muslims, British and Somali Muslims, British and Bangladeshi Muslims.....
Another great day on PB when PB's bien pensant (let's guess, largely) white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters discuss the ins and outs and traditions of Islam and the UK's muslims.
"white, comfortable, millions of miles from seeing them every or indeed any day posters..."
Yep.
Apart from working in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, Algeria, Senegal, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Turkey...oh and holidaying in Morocco and Jordan - yes, your sneering condescension was spot on.
How many British muslims lived in those places?
I've met more Muslims, talked to more Muslims than probably most everybody on this board.
And if you think there was no overlap between British and Pakistani Muslims, British and Somali Muslims, British and Bangladeshi Muslims.....
We were discussing Muslims in Britain, specifically British Muslims, and how they react to the plurality of forces acting upon them (secular, religious, societal, peer, etc).
I wonder btw if all those societies tolerated you walking around in a shirt and chinos rather than a shalwar kameez.
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I’m fully expecting Philip Thompson to be able recite the Shahada.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/06/07/theresa-mays-staunchest-supporter-in-the-media-announces-his-departure-but-could-it-be-good-news-for-her/
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But then you watch every other Craig Bond movie and realise, no, it was just a blip.
The attitude of men to women's dress and what it says about their view of women is something that affects all women, whatever their religion or culture is.
Yep.
Apart from working in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, Algeria, Senegal, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Turkey...oh and holidaying in Morocco and Jordan - yes, your sneering condescension was spot on.
And if you think there was no overlap between British and Pakistani Muslims, British and Somali Muslims, British and Bangladeshi Muslims.....
I wonder btw if all those societies tolerated you walking around in a shirt and chinos rather than a shalwar kameez.