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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Preview : January 9th 2014

Haverhill East on St. Edmundsbury (Con Defence)
Result of last election to council (2011): Con 38, Ind 4, Lab 3 (Conservative overall majority of 31
Result of ward at last election (2011): Emboldened denotes elected
Conservatives 834, 664, 662 (55%)
Labour 648, 636 (33%)
Liberal Democrats 260, 188 (12%)
Candidates duly nominated:

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Thanks Harry.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    FPT:
    Morris_Dancer said:

    They don't get to put their left leg in, consider the terms they could get, and then take their left leg out.


    Tell it to the fop.
    newsfirst ‏@themediabrief 5 Jan

    Cameron to consider pushing for cap on workers from EU as he makes cutting immigration top priority in EU renegotiation - UK Sun
    Finally, a "red line" on renegotiations from Cammie to appease his Eurosceptics?
    David Cameron will consider pushing for a cap on workers from Europe and make cutting immigration a top priority as he seeks to renegotiate Britain's relationship with Brussels

    Cameron insisted he has already made progress on renegotiation, which he wants before putting the issue of Britain's EU membership to a referendum vote by the end of 2017. However, he said much more needs to be done on the issue of immigration and suggested he was willing to raise the issue of a cap in Brussels.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/05/cameron-cap-european-migrants-uk-negotiations-eu
    So obviously if he doesn't get this 'red line' immigration cap he'll campaign to stay OUT and won't be shy in saying so.
    Asked whether he would ever campaign for Britain to leave the EU if he does not get what he wants, Cameron insisted his goals were feasible.

    Or not.

    *chortle*
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    Excellent write up Harry. First council seat where anyone can win for a while.
  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Bollocks. Thank you so much Corals.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    edited January 2014
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Bollocks. Thank you so much Corals.

    Take them to the cleaners this weekend by putting a grand on Palace beating Spurs with them.
  • anotherDave
    anotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "UKIP membership now over 33,000 members. Highest in our history and still rising! "

    twitter.com/UKIP/status/421342211708428289
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    TSE,

    Please tell me where I said Le Pen's comments were helpful to Ukip
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?
  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited January 2014
    .
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Bollocks. Thank you so much Corals.

    Take them to the cleaners this weekend by putting a grand on Palace beating Spurs with them.

    They've only got that at 9-1. Hills give you 10-1 which really is good value.
  • saddened
    saddened Posts: 2,245
    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    No feel free to explain in great detail.

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    saddened said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    No feel free to explain in great detail.

    I don't know, that is why I am asking.
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    FREE as in you need a FREEdom of Information request to find out how much is being invested?
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Can you tell us how education in Wales is performing?
  • saddened
    saddened Posts: 2,245
    compouter1 said:

    saddened said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    No feel free to explain in great detail.

    I don't know, that is why I am asking.
    No, What you're doing is low rent trolling.

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    nigel4england said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Can you tell us how education in Wales is performing?
    I don't know Nigel.
  • Socrates
    Socrates Posts: 10,322
    Most interesting thing about this Chris Christie story is how no one is defending him. It shows a lack of support in the party - something without which he will find it very hard to get a presidential nomination.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    FREE as in you need a FREEdom of Information request to find out how much is being invested?
    Do you want to cut the investment in education?
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    FREE as in you need a FREEdom of Information request to find out how much is being invested?
    Free like food banks, 'pouter.

  • JohnLilburne
    JohnLilburne Posts: 6,879
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    Surely if taxpayers' money is being invested in them, we have the right to know how much.

  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
  • DavidL
    DavidL Posts: 55,867
    Luke Wright just got 49 from 20 balls in a T20 in the Big Bash. Is he in our ODI squad? He was on target to get the fastest 50 in the history of the competetion until he was caught.
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    FREE as in you need a FREEdom of Information request to find out how much is being invested?
    Free like food banks, 'pouter.

    Very good AveryLP. Foodbanks, hilarious old bean.
  • TheWatcher
    TheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited January 2014
    nigel4england said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Can you tell us how education in Wales is performing?
    Very badly.

    Labour blighting the lives of more children.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25196974

  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    compouter1 said:

    nigel4england said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Can you tell us how education in Wales is performing?
    I don't know Nigel.
    You don't know whether you can tell us?
  • saddened
    saddened Posts: 2,245
    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    Thanks for proving the trolling point.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    .

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Bollocks. Thank you so much Corals.

    Take them to the cleaners this weekend by putting a grand on Palace beating Spurs with them.

    They've only got that at 9-1. Hills give you 10-1 which really is good value.
    Indeed, but £900 from Corals will taste sweeter than £1000 from Hills.
  • SMukesh
    SMukesh Posts: 1,759
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    Does that mean it`s free of taxpayers money?
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    edited January 2014
    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about transparency and getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    nigel4england said:

    TSE,

    Please tell me where I said Le Pen's comments were helpful to Ukip

    You do realise the PB Romneys were right on the devastating effect on Farage and the kippers in the polls with 'Enochgate'

    Tory kipper waverers will be almost as appalled as when Farage was banging on about muslims. Possibly because that's Crosby's job.
    Lord Ashcroft, who has commissioned research on how to win ethnic minority support, is understood to believe it is ‘crazy’ for Mr Crosby to argue it is a ‘waste of time’ pursuing Muslim votes.

    Following The Mail on Sunday’s disclosure last week about Mr Crosby’s comment about Muslims, it also emerged that:

    A Sikh aide to Boris Johnson claimed he was ‘sidelined’ by Mr Crosby because of his views on the need for Tories to win ethnic minority votes.

     Mr Crosby reportedly joked: ‘Let’s put a rag round the battle bus’ – referring to a Muslim headscarf.

    Tory sources claimed Mr Crosby is being paid about £200,000 a year for one week’s work per month.

    Members of the Conservative board have complained after being told to rubber stamp Mr Crosby’s appointment tomorrow.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2238039/Some-say-PMs-fixer-racist-Top-Tory-attacks-Camerons-chief-foul-mouthed-rant-Muslims.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited January 2014
    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    Surely if taxpayers' money is being invested in them, we have the right to know how much.

    Free School budgets and development/set up grants are fully transparent.

  • saddened
    saddened Posts: 2,245
    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    Still trolling, you little tinker.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    FPT:

    Alanbrooke said:

    » show previous quotes
    Mr P are you back up in the Midlands this month ?

    Yes I am indeed!
  • taffys
    taffys Posts: 9,753
    edited January 2014
    Labour blighting the lives of more children.

    The Wales education minister has already warned parents not to expect any improvements for a few years (ie, ever).

    If England starts to inch up the table in the next PISA and Wales goes nowhere (or even down!) ed milliband has a big, big problem.
  • JohnLilburne
    JohnLilburne Posts: 6,879
    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    Surely if taxpayers' money is being invested in them, we have the right to know how much.

    Free School budgets and development/set up grants are fully transparent.

    So what is this FOI request 'pouter is going on about then?

    And "fully transparent", does that mean I cab get a spreadsheet with a line by line breakdown?

  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    Avery,

    Er.....what happened to the retail figures ? I am sure you will find milk and honey in it.

    Please, no yellow boxes.

    Regards

    Imtiaz
  • IOS
    IOS Posts: 1,450
    I know we didn't have a poster of the year this year but Harry deserves it for these consistently brilliant articles.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    No stranger than a bunch of pillocks who pissed gargantuan sums of money up the wall in their 13 years of government now pretending they give a toss about taxpayer cash.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    nigel4england said:

    TSE,

    Please tell me where I said Le Pen's comments were helpful to Ukip

    I'm assumed for your comment that's what you were implying.

    Apologies if that's what was an incorrect interpretation.
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    saddened said:

    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    Still trolling, you little tinker.
    How is that trolling saddened? Has Mr Gove published how much is being invested on Free Schools? I assume he hasn't. Can someone link me the figures please.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Maybe he's spent it on copies of Blair's book for the chumocracy?
    It's love. "I love A Journey," Michael Gove has confessed to this newspaper. Tony Blair's memoirs are like no other book he has ever read, he declared. And Gove's passion is shared by many in the cabinet. David Cameron has admitted how much he enjoyed the book; George Osborne is said to have an audio version, which allows him to hear the author telling his story in his own voice. At No 10 and No 11 Blair is known as "The Master".

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/nov/26/davidcameron-georgeosborne
    :)
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    Surely if taxpayers' money is being invested in them, we have the right to know how much.

    Free School budgets and development/set up grants are fully transparent.

    So what is this FOI request 'pouter is going on about then?

    And "fully transparent", does that mean I cab get a spreadsheet with a line by line breakdown?

    You want to count the paperclips?

  • saddened
    saddened Posts: 2,245
    surbiton said:

    Avery,

    Er.....what happened to the retail figures ? I am sure you will find milk and honey in it.

    Please, no yellow boxes.

    Regards

    Imtiaz

    To late discussed at length on previous threads.
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    nigel4england said:

    TSE,

    Please tell me where I said Le Pen's comments were helpful to Ukip

    I'm assumed for your comment that's what you were implying.

    Apologies if that's what was an incorrect interpretation.
    Apology accepted.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    saddened said:

    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    Still trolling, you little tinker.
    Compouter is actually making a very good point. For all that I think Gove is doing good things with and for our education system, there is no denying that he suffers from the same faults as many (or all?) ministers in that he cannot stand to be scrutinised and held to account.

    I do thunk it is indefensible that he has sought to hide the financial arrangements for the Free Schools and all it does is provide fodder for his opponents who can reasonably claim that he must be trying to hide something.

    As I say I think most of Gove's reforms have been excellent and I hope he is able to continue his mission up to and after the next election. But that doesn't make him infallible (as we saw this week with the WW1 outburst) and the sooner he makes the data available on Free Schools the better.

    Until then it is reasonable that his opponents highlight this issue. For sure Tories would be doing so if it were a Labour minister concealing information that is clearly in the public interest.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    FPT:

    Alanbrooke said:

    » show previous quotes
    Mr P are you back up in the Midlands this month ?

    Yes I am indeed!

    OK how about a beer next week or the week after ? Any nights you can't make ( I assume you go back South of Fridays ? )
  • woodhouseian
    woodhouseian Posts: 1
    I see there's a Town Council election in Haverhill Town (East) at the same time - the Tories aren't even standing!
    http://www.stedmundsbury.gov.uk/council_and_democracy/elections_and_voting/upload/NoticePollHaverhillTownEast.pdf
  • JohnLilburne
    JohnLilburne Posts: 6,879
    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    The clue is in the name, 'pouter.

    Surely if taxpayers' money is being invested in them, we have the right to know how much.

    Free School budgets and development/set up grants are fully transparent.

    So what is this FOI request 'pouter is going on about then?

    And "fully transparent", does that mean I cab get a spreadsheet with a line by line breakdown?

    You want to count the paperclips?

    I am a taxpayer. I am a citizen. I am a voter. L'etat c'est moi.

    So what is 'pouter going on about then? What is Gove refusing to divulge?

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    Alanbrooke said:

    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    No stranger than a bunch of pillocks who pissed gargantuan sums of money up the wall in their 13 years of government now pretending they give a toss about taxpayer cash.
    Where the figures that were pissed up the wall published for public consumption?
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    saddened said:

    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    Still trolling, you little tinker.
    Compouter is actually making a very good point. For all that I think Gove is doing good things with and for our education system, there is no denying that he suffers from the same faults as many (or all?) ministers in that he cannot stand to be scrutinised and held to account.

    I do thunk it is indefensible that he has sought to hide the financial arrangements for the Free Schools and all it does is provide fodder for his opponents who can reasonably claim that he must be trying to hide something.

    As I say I think most of Gove's reforms have been excellent and I hope he is able to continue his mission up to and after the next election. But that doesn't make him infallible (as we saw this week with the WW1 outburst) and the sooner he makes the data available on Free Schools the better.

    Until then it is reasonable that his opponents highlight this issue. For sure Tories would be doing so if it were a Labour minister concealing information that is clearly in the public interest.
    Damn. Just noticed I typed 'thunk' instead of 'think' and editing controls appear to be down at the moment. Would have to be on a post about education as well :-)
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    saddened said:

    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    Still trolling, you little tinker.
    Compouter is actually making a very good point. For all that I think Gove is doing good things with and for our education system, there is no denying that he suffers from the same faults as many (or all?) ministers in that he cannot stand to be scrutinised and held to account.

    I do thunk it is indefensible that he has sought to hide the financial arrangements for the Free Schools and all it does is provide fodder for his opponents who can reasonably claim that he must be trying to hide something.

    As I say I think most of Gove's reforms have been excellent and I hope he is able to continue his mission up to and after the next election. But that doesn't make him infallible (as we saw this week with the WW1 outburst) and the sooner he makes the data available on Free Schools the better.

    Until then it is reasonable that his opponents highlight this issue. For sure Tories would be doing so if it were a Labour minister concealing information that is clearly in the public interest.
    Thank you Richard. The fact that he hasn't will always point people in the direction that they are not value for money, because if they were I am sure he would be making political gain. Or maybe I am wrong, maybe he is just being bashful with how frugal he is being with taxpayers money.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Ladbrokes, Betfair, Skybet(All losers here lol) settle.

    365 and Victor to go...
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    nigel4england said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    nigel4england said:

    TSE,

    Please tell me where I said Le Pen's comments were helpful to Ukip

    I'm assumed for your comment that's what you were implying.

    Apologies if that's what was an incorrect interpretation.
    Apology accepted.
    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not calling you or any Kipper a racist or the UK equivalent of Front national, my point is the Tories and the media, will use this revive the racists, loonies, fruitcakes meme all over again, which may or may not be sub-optimal for UKIP, because you can guarantee one Kipper somewhere in the UK will be quoted saying something approvingly about Ms Le Pen and Front national
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    compouter1 said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    No stranger than a bunch of pillocks who pissed gargantuan sums of money up the wall in their 13 years of government now pretending they give a toss about taxpayer cash.
    Where the figures that were pissed up the wall published for public consumption?
    Some were, some weren't - nobody can find Tony's expenses. The book keeping was so bad that they didn't realise they were running a 5.2% deficit in 2007. But hey it's only money.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Not often you hear a German strongly back @David_Cameron's EU reform plan. But the PM will love this: http://t.co/965HOjZwth
  • Carola
    Carola Posts: 1,805
    Quite hard to get info on Free schools (which doesn't mean I'm against them, before you start):
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/07/why-is-government-secretive-about-free-schools
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    " The National Audit Office report found that the average cost of establishing a new free school is £6.6m, compared to an average cost of creating a new school under the last government of £25m. "New approaches have led to much lower average construction costs than in previous programmes.".
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Carola said:

    Quite hard to get info on Free schools (which doesn't mean I'm against them, before you start):
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/07/why-is-government-secretive-about-free-schools

    Well they are just an extension of New Labour 's reforms like almost all of the chumocracy's reforms. Gove just tried to hide that from gullible right wingers with his rabid spads and amusingly inept and counterproductive attacks on teachers and teaching.
  • saddened
    saddened Posts: 2,245
    compouter1 said:

    saddened said:

    compouter1 said:

    surbiton said:

    compouter1 said:

    O/T Can anyone think why Gove will not produce the figures for the amount of money he is investing in Free Schools?

    Because the Minister of Silly Walks is wasting a lot of taxpayer's money on his childish project which is wants to hide.
    He could well be wasting money, however, he wont let us find out. It could be fantastic value for money, however, he wont let us know. Strange how a coalition that keeps banging on about getting value for taxpayers money wont let us know if they are value for money compared to non-Free schools, don't you think?
    Still trolling, you little tinker.
    How is that trolling saddened? Has Mr Gove published how much is being invested on Free Schools? I assume he hasn't. Can someone link me the figures please.
    if you are genuinely interested use Google. There's lots of data out there, but as I'm not your researcher you find it.

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    I do have a quote fromMr Gove himself on why they are fighting disclosure "We wanted to protect public-spirited volunteers from intimidation"
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Alanbrooke said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    FPT:

    Alanbrooke said:

    » show previous quotes
    Mr P are you back up in the Midlands this month ?

    Yes I am indeed!

    OK how about a beer next week or the week after ? Any nights you can't make ( I assume you go back South of Fridays ? )
    Just PM'ed you!
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    @Richard_Tyndall

    Compouter is actually making a very good point. For all that I think Gove is doing good things with and for our education system, there is no denying that he suffers from the same faults as many (or all?) ministers in that he cannot stand to be scrutinised and held to account.

    I do thunk it is indefensible that he has sought to hide the financial arrangements for the Free Schools and all it does is provide fodder for his opponents who can reasonably claim that he must be trying to hide something.

    As I say I think most of Gove's reforms have been excellent and I hope he is able to continue his mission up to and after the next election. But that doesn't make him infallible (as we saw this week with the WW1 outburst) and the sooner he makes the data available on Free Schools the better.

    Until then it is reasonable that his opponents highlight this issue. For sure Tories would be doing so if it were a Labour minister concealing information that is clearly in the public interest.

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    Compouter is actually making a very good point. For all that I think Gove is doing good things with and for our education system, there is no denying that he suffers from the same faults as many (or all?) ministers in that he cannot stand to be scrutinised and held to account.

    I do thunk it is indefensible that he has sought to hide the financial arrangements for the Free Schools and all it does is provide fodder for his opponents who can reasonably claim that he must be trying to hide something.

    As I say I think most of Gove's reforms have been excellent and I hope he is able to continue his mission up to and after the next election. But that doesn't make him infallible (as we saw this week with the WW1 outburst) and the sooner he makes the data available on Free Schools the better.

    Until then it is reasonable that his opponents highlight this issue. For sure Tories would be doing so if it were a Labour minister concealing information that is clearly in the public interest.

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    @TSE

    What are your thoughts on the ban on Dieudonne?
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    FPT:

    Alanbrooke said:

    » show previous quotes
    Mr P are you back up in the Midlands this month ?

    Yes I am indeed!

    OK how about a beer next week or the week after ? Any nights you can't make ( I assume you go back South of Fridays ? )
    Just PM'ed you!
    Just replied.
  • saddened
    saddened Posts: 2,245
    compouter1 said:

    I do have a quote fromMr Gove himself on why they are fighting disclosure "We wanted to protect public-spirited volunteers from intimidation"

    Do you find that surprising when "leverage squads" exist?
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    Yougov up in a few minutes.

    ****Shuffles goalposts in readiness ****
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    @TSE

    What are your thoughts on the ban on Dieudonne?

    Anti-Semitism is an evil, evil must be opposed, that said, I'm not in favour of bans, you should rebut their perverse ideology head on.

    I need to read a bit more about him.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    The front page of the Indy doesn't make good reading for the Met.

    I'm shocked by this, shocked I tell you.

    Sky News ‏@SkyNews 6m

    INDEPEDENT FRONT PAGE: 'Exposed: Scotland Yard's rotten core' #skypapers

    pic.twitter.com/omQ1wurDst
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    So you don't see his refusal to produce the figures will make many people assume they are not value for money?
  • JohnLilburne
    JohnLilburne Posts: 6,879
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    So you don't see his refusal to produce the figures will make many people assume they are not value for money?
    No. In exactly the same way I don't consider a defendant in a criminal trial to be guilty as charged on the grounds that he declines to give evidence.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Well it made me smile

    Voters Shocked Christie Botched Such An Easy Political Cover-Up

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/voters-shocked-christie-botched-such-an-easy-polit,34909/
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

  • AlastairMeeks
    AlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Haverhill is not one of the more picturesque corners of Suffolk. It should be fertile UKIP territory.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    compouter1 said:

    Yougov up in a few minutes.

    ****Shuffles goalposts in readiness ****

    Have you told the badgers? You know how easily flummoxed the Cameroons are by now. ;)
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 30s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Labour lead still at six points: CON 32%, LAB 38%, LD 9%, UKIP 13%
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of releasing them? Surely if public money is being used, in the public interest there has to be an absolute right for that information to be put in the public domain.

    Michael Gove: I note what the hon. Lady says, and we have extended the freedom of information legislation to cover academies, which was not the case before this Government came to power. It is, however, important that we protect those individuals who made proposals for schools that were not accepted, from the programme of intimidation that has been directed at many brave teachers by the National Union of Teachers and other extreme left-wing organisations. I make no apologies for protecting from intimidation those public-spirited people who wish to establish new schools.

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    Mick_Pork said:

    compouter1 said:

    Yougov up in a few minutes.

    ****Shuffles goalposts in readiness ****

    Have you told the badgers? You know how easily flummoxed the Cameroons are by now. ;)
    I'm all ready for it, I'm running out of Tramadol for the pain of carrying them for so long.
  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 30s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Labour lead still at six points: CON 32%, LAB 38%, LD 9%, UKIP 13%

    *** Pops a few more Tramadol ***
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    ...

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
    The balance of interests are defined in law, custom and practice.

    I am a shareholder in Marks & Spencer. It doesn't give me the right to access accounting data on my local store.

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    ...

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
    The balance of interests are defined in law, custom and practice.

    I am a shareholder in Marks & Spencer. It doesn't give me the right to access accounting data on my local store.

    So that is why he wont release the figures. The head teacher of the Free School who has been accused of fraud must have being doing the figures ;-)
  • SMukesh
    SMukesh Posts: 1,759
    ITV leading on `free school fraud`!
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    ...

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
    The balance of interests are defined in law, custom and practice.

    I am a shareholder in Marks & Spencer. It doesn't give me the right to access accounting data on my local store.

    So that is why he wont release the figures. The head teacher of the Free School who has been accused of fraud must have being doing the figures ;-)
    Non sequitur.

  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    SMukesh said:

    ITV leading on `free school fraud`!

    Well it makes a change from Labour MPs.
  • Mick_Pork
    Mick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    compouter1 said:

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?

    Obviously Gove's secrecy on the finances speaks volumes but he will be FAR more fearful that a complete and accurate picture of what his Spads get up to ever gets out. Even among that strange breed the Spads that Gove has surrounded himself with are quite extraordinary.
    They could be the end of him eventually.

  • compouter1
    compouter1 Posts: 642
    SMukesh said:

    ITV leading on `free school fraud`!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10561768/Free-school-principal-arrested-in-fraud-investigation.html

  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    Caroline Lucas: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response. Why has his Department been using all its legal might to prevent the release of free school applications and decision letters, even after the Information Commissioner ruled that there was a strong public information argument in favour of
    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.

    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
    The BBC refuse countless FOI requests and they are tax payer funded, I haven't seen you complaining about them.
  • JohnLilburne
    JohnLilburne Posts: 6,879
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    ...

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
    The balance of interests are defined in law, custom and practice.

    I am a shareholder in Marks & Spencer. It doesn't give me the right to access accounting data on my local store.

    that's a slightly different argument. If you don't like the information you get from M&S you are at perfect liberty to sell heh shares. You can't stop contributing to HM Treasury.

    My argument is there is no such thing as Government, it has no legal personality. It is simply a proxy for the taxpayer/citizen/voter. It therefore has no locus of authority to withhold information, because the information is mine to start with.

  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    ...

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
    The balance of interests are defined in law, custom and practice.

    I am a shareholder in Marks & Spencer. It doesn't give me the right to access accounting data on my local store.

    that's a slightly different argument. If you don't like the information you get from M&S you are at perfect liberty to sell heh shares. You can't stop contributing to HM Treasury.

    My argument is there is no such thing as Government, it has no legal personality. It is simply a proxy for the taxpayer/citizen/voter. It therefore has no locus of authority to withhold information, because the information is mine to start with.

    On that basis no information should be withheld.

    That is impractical and would prevent the proper and efficient functioning of government.

  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter1 said:

    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    ...

    Richard

    Gove has to decide whether a request for information on costs and other detail, over and above normal accounting disclosure requirements, is bona fide.

    This exchange in the HoC on 6 January 2014 between Caroline Lucas and Michael Gove illustrates why it may be necessary to maintain some level of discretionary confidentiality:

    ...

    Provided Gove complies with statutory requirements and standard ministerial practice on accounting disclosure, he has every right to release or withhold further information at his discretion.

    The fact that he is not boasting about their value for money will always be used as a negative against him and the Free schools. The fact he refuses to reveal the information only highlights this problem.
    The Freedom of Information legislation does not apply to Free Schools. What information Gove releases over and above statutory requirements is entirely at his discretion.

    If you don't like it, find another leader, get elected in 2015 and extend the FOI legislation to cover Free Schools.

    He could always use his discretion to release it. Just because governments do not have to make information available, does not mean they should routinely hide it.

    Of course. Gove has to make a political judgement.

    He has no doubt decided that release of additional cost information at this stage would not be in his interests.

    Surely it should be in the taxpayers interest and not his interest that he should be taking account?
    The balance of interests are defined in law, custom and practice.

    I am a shareholder in Marks & Spencer. It doesn't give me the right to access accounting data on my local store.

    Marks and Spencers are not using public money for their business./ Free Schools are.

    I repeat, I am in favour of Free schools. I am also in favour of accountable and open Government. We had to put up with 13 years of Labour hiding everything from us and then lying in the bits of information they did release. I would hope that the Tories would not continue in the same manner.
  • Alanbrooke
    Alanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    @Avery

    Mr Pole,

    how come the our cousins outremanche have got a 80% increase in money from the EIB tp spend on infrastructure - upgraded landing strips for their mistresses presumably - yet the UK which has some of the crappest infrastructure for any advanced country isn't bothering ? What is Gormless george up to or not up to more likely ? I suspect a bad case of Cableitis.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2014/01/09/20002-20140109ARTFIG00715-l-union-europeenne-n-a-jamais-autant-aide-l-economie-francaise.php
  • IOS
    IOS Posts: 1,450
    Goves Spads are a massive problem for Gove and by extension the Tories.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think they want better airports so that they can flee a little quicker to Le Angleterre.

    Alanbrooke said:

    @Avery

    Mr Pole,

    how come the our cousins outremanche have got a 80% increase in money from the EIB tp spend on infrastructure - upgraded landing strips for their mistresses presumably - yet the UK which has some of the crappest infrastructure for any advanced country isn't bothering ? What is Gormless george up to or not up to more likely ? I suspect a bad case of Cableitis.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2014/01/09/20002-20140109ARTFIG00715-l-union-europeenne-n-a-jamais-autant-aide-l-economie-francaise.php

  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    @Richard_Tyndall

    Marks and Spencers are not using public money for their business./ Free Schools are.

    I repeat, I am in favour of Free schools. I am also in favour of accountable and open Government. We had to put up with 13 years of Labour hiding everything from us and then lying in the bits of information they did release. I would hope that the Tories would not continue in the same manner.

    Richard

    You are a senior executive/professional.

    You know that in your job you need to allocate priorities to your main tasks and responsibilities.

    You also know that you need to manage information flows both internally within your organisation and externally with the rest of the world.

    You may be working on an exploratory drill. Is it sensible that you be required to release information on your progress on demand from a competitor or market investor? Or do you agree internally what information to release when and to whom in order to most benefit your enterprise?

    The tasks and responsibilities of government are very similar to those undertaken in other commercial and administrative fields. Yes, there should be more public accountability than is expected from private sector operations but there still needs to be a balance between internal and external interests.

    Gove's requirements are to release information as required by statute and agreement and to manage additional release in accordance with his and the government's political interests.

    There is no doubt that cost information on Free Schools will be made available in due course. But at this stage in the development of the programme it is not in Gove's or to government's interest to foster debate on the costings which would detract from the primary political purpose of the Free Schools initiative.

    Managing information is a basic day to day management task.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    Victor settles. If Messi wins the Ballon D'Or that account is a goner.
  • AveryLP
    AveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Alanbrooke said:

    @Avery

    Mr Pole,

    how come the our cousins outremanche have got a 80% increase in money from the EIB tp spend on infrastructure - upgraded landing strips for their mistresses presumably - yet the UK which has some of the crappest infrastructure for any advanced country isn't bothering ? What is Gormless george up to or not up to more likely ? I suspect a bad case of Cableitis.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2014/01/09/20002-20140109ARTFIG00715-l-union-europeenne-n-a-jamais-autant-aide-l-economie-francaise.php

    The frebch are very fond of single state and supra-national investment banks. Remember Jacques Attali, the EBRD and the red travertine marble in the bank's new head office?

    These organisations provide sinecures for loyal hacks and allow politicians to interfere in resource allocation.

    The Anglo-Saxon model of having powerful markets and independent distributors of finance is less flawed than the continental model.

    Goldman Sachs anyday over the EIB.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    AveryLP said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    Marks and Spencers are not using public money for their business./ Free Schools are.

    I repeat, I am in favour of Free schools. I am also in favour of accountable and open Government. We had to put up with 13 years of Labour hiding everything from us and then lying in the bits of information they did release. I would hope that the Tories would not continue in the same manner.

    Richard

    You are a senior executive/professional.

    You know that in your job you need to allocate priorities to your main tasks and responsibilities.

    You also know that you need to manage information flows both internally within your organisation and externally with the rest of the world.

    You may be working on an exploratory drill. Is it sensible that you be required to release information on your progress on demand from a competitor or market investor? Or do you agree internally what information to release when and to whom in order to most benefit your enterprise?

    The tasks and responsibilities of government are very similar to those undertaken in other commercial and administrative fields. Yes, there should be more public accountability than is expected from private sector operations but there still needs to be a balance between internal and external interests.

    Gove's requirements are to release information as required by statute and agreement and to manage additional release in accordance with his and the government's political interests.

    There is no doubt that cost information on Free Schools will be made available in due course. But at this stage in the development of the programme it is not in Gove's or to government's interest to foster debate on the costings which would detract from the primary political purpose of the Free Schools initiative.

    Managing information is a basic day to day management task.

    'primary political purpose' is most certainly not a reason to prevent proper public scrutiny of publicly funded organisations. Nor does it matter if it is Gove's or the Government's interest. What matters is whether it is in the public interest to release the information and it appears the Information Commissioner has already ruled that it is.
  • MarkSenior
    MarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    On topic , Harry is calling Haverhill wrong if he is thinking Labour should gain the seat . UKIP are strong favourites having won the corresponding CC seat in May with their county councillor standing again in this by election . Labour do have a reasonable chance of coming second . There was a minor row locally over a video Labour have put out on line for the by election as to whether the true cost of the video which included some shots from a helicopter will be included in their expenses .
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