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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Preview : January 7th 2014

SystemSystem Posts: 11,722
edited January 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Preview : January 7th 2014

Swinton South on Salford (Lab Defence)
Result of last election to council (2012): Lab 52, Con 8 (Labour overall majority of 44)
Result of ward in last electoral cycle:
2010: Lab 1,671, Lib Dem 1,358, Con 1,055, Ind 837
2011: Lab 1,356, Con 553, Green 481, Lib Dem 277, UKIP 194
2012:

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    Vote Con!
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    Christ, check out that LD collapse post-2010. They had 10 councillors in Salford in 2008, now...ouch.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    One thing is for sure, if Labour doesn't hold easily even on a poll under 25% turnout, it will not be a good result for Labour
  • Options
    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Quincel said:

    Christ, check out that LD collapse post-2010.

    I think it's even worse than it looks - the Independent was an ex Lib Dem cllr and presumably impacted their 2010 result. He's now the Green party candidate.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    O/T.

    OMG Sunderland have scored at the end of the first half. Don't give much for Moyes' chances
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Gove will cost the Cons this seat.

    Anyone know if the ITV poll tonight will have a VI figure ?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    The Green candidate Joe O'Neill is a former Lib Dem councillor for the ward who lost his seat in 2010 standing as an Independent after a falling out with the local party . If there is going to be a shock result it is more likely to come from him than one of the other parties .
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited January 2014
    Blue_rog said:

    O/T.

    OMG Sunderland have scored at the end of the first half. Don't give much for Moyes' chances

    It was Man U who scored but a Ryan Giggs own goal !!
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    Vidic equalises less than 10 minutes into the second half.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Took 4/1 Man U at h/t
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    If you can be bothered to wade through the Ladbrokes website (it's seriously bad) they have odds of 5/2 on Labour being a part of the Coalition emerging from the next Irish GE. That seems like good value to me. Paddy Power has 11/8 for FG / Lab alone (and the 5/2 covers FG / Lab / someone else or FF / Lab / someone else). The only obvious alternative would seem to be a grand coalition and that's 11/8 with Paddy Power too.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    edited January 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Took 4/1 Man U at h/t

    Nice. Was tempted but try to stick off the sports. My mistake.

    Not sure why the draw is shorter than a United win now. End to End stuff and two goals by 55 minutes is strongly suggestive of more to come.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    You might get longer than 4/1 now .....
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    Oooh, Sunderland penalty. Maybe we spoke too soon (4/1 at HT was still sweet value).
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Which fall if further or more enjoyable, the scum or the yellow peril?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,204
    There's been a helicopter crash near Cley in North Norfolk.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, there seem to have been a few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time.
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    United are still a 1-0 home win against Sunderland from the League Cup final. Not time to panic yet. If Sunderland can score first in the 2nd leg too though, that would be tasty.
  • Options

    There's been a helicopter crash near Cley in North Norfolk.

    Sky News say it's a US Military helicopter. We get a few of those flying over our house, from that direction. Blackhawk down?

  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited January 2014
    FPT:
    SeanT said:

    Speaking as the man who finally frightened Tim away, I regret his spineless departure

    Speaking as someone who watched with my jaw on the floor at what you did, are you quite certain you want to keep flaunting that repeatedly?

    Rest assured, what you did doesn't just show you for what you are as it throws a very stark light on this place. That it has unbelievably happened twice now on PB is simply staggering.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim who ?

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,532
    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.
  • Options
    Quincel said:

    United are still a 1-0 home win against Sunderland from the League Cup final. Not time to panic yet. If Sunderland can score first in the 2nd leg too though, that would be tasty.

    That doesn't matter. The thing is, this makes Utd panic, they've had it their way for the past 20 years, and have generations of fans who have never really tasted a lean time. A few more bad results, they bomb out of the CL, they finish out of the top 4 this year, share price tanks, end of an era. Twenty years in the wilderness follows.
    A man can dream, can't he?

  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited January 2014
    TGOHF said:

    tim who ?

    The NeoCon Blairite labour supporter who I vehemently opposed on many occasions. The one who still managed to make the place look far less than the right wing zoo it now is by being a prominent dissenting voice against the PB tories and a leading betting poster on politicalBetting.

    The one who the PB tories still can't help mentioning almost every day.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Salford Reds not doing well again.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited January 2014
    TOPPING said:

    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.

    it's pretty bizarre and though the facts are the facts (which will always upset some kippers and tories) the Beeb do seem intent on diving into this feet first and giving the EU elections and kipper core issues huge prominence.
  • Options
    Mick_Pork said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim who ?

    The NeoCon Blairite labour supporter who I vehemently opposed on many occasions. The one who still managed to make the place look far less than the right wing zoo it now is by being a prominent dissenting voice against the PB tories and a leading betting poster on politicalBetting.

    The one who the PB tories still can't help mentioning almost every day.
    It is quite funny Mr Pork that the PB Hodges used to take the piss out of him for the number of posts by Tim, however, since he has been gone one of the PB Hodges favourite topic is ....err......Tim. Oh, the irony.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, there seem to have been a few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time.

    Wotcha Mr. D.,

    A few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time? Well, I think we all know what's to blame here - Global Warming. Obvious, innit. I mean, stands to reason. First snow in Egypt in 112 years, the USA frozen solid, storms and helicopter crashes in the UK, got to be down to man-made global warming and us not shutting down our coal fired power stations quick enough. 'Course that was down to Miliband and his Climate Change Act with its pathetically unambitious targets. If he had written in " By 2012 no fossil fuels to be used in the UK for generation of electricity" Cameron and everyone would have voted for it just the same and we would be in a very different place today. A colder, darker place to be sure but reading hand-written books by tallow candles wouldn't be that much of a hardship and at least we wouldn't have had all this wind and rain and the USA wouldn't be freezing its collective nuts off.

    Will nobody think of the Polar Bears?
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2014

    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, there seem to have been a few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time.

    Wotcha Mr. D.,

    A few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time? Well, I think we all know what's to blame here - Global Warming. Obvious, innit. I mean, stands to reason. First snow in Egypt in 112 years, the USA frozen solid, storms and helicopter crashes in the UK, got to be down to man-made global warming and us not shutting down our coal fired power stations quick enough. 'Course that was down to Miliband and his Climate Change Act with its pathetically unambitious targets. If he had written in " By 2012 no fossil fuels to be used in the UK for generation of electricity" Cameron and everyone would have voted for it just the same and we would be in a very different place today. A colder, darker place to be sure but reading hand-written books by tallow candles wouldn't be that much of a hardship and at least we wouldn't have had all this wind and rain and the USA wouldn't be freezing its collective nuts off.

    Will nobody think of the Polar Bears?
    I can offer the encouraging report that this particular American is still in full posession of his nuts, though they might have shrivelled a bit after the record breaking morning low of 6 degrees fahrenheit, when the usual low at this time of year is a tad above freezing.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Mick_Pork said:

    FPT:

    SeanT said:

    Speaking as the man who finally frightened Tim away, I regret his spineless departure

    Speaking as someone who watched with my jaw on the floor at what you did, are you quite certain you want to keep flaunting that repeatedly?

    Rest assured, what you did doesn't just show you for what you are as it throws a very stark light on this place. That it has unbelievably happened twice now on PB is simply staggering.
    What happened to Tim?
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Mick_Pork said:

    TOPPING said:

    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.

    it's pretty bizarre and though the facts are the facts (which will always upset some kippers and tories) the Beeb do seem intent on diving into this feet first and giving the EU elections and kipper core issues huge prominence.
    What facts are these?

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    @TFS

    To be replaced by the mighty Leicester City!

    E I E I E I O up the football league we go.

    Well a boy can dream :-)

    Quincel said:

    United are still a 1-0 home win against Sunderland from the League Cup final. Not time to panic yet. If Sunderland can score first in the 2nd leg too though, that would be tasty.

    That doesn't matter. The thing is, this makes Utd panic, they've had it their way for the past 20 years, and have generations of fans who have never really tasted a lean time. A few more bad results, they bomb out of the CL, they finish out of the top 4 this year, share price tanks, end of an era. Twenty years in the wilderness follows.
    A man can dream, can't he?

  • Options
    shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    Tim_B said:

    What happened to Tim?

    The biter was bit.

    Entertainingly, tim still appears to be sulking.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Tim_B said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    FPT:

    SeanT said:

    Speaking as the man who finally frightened Tim away, I regret his spineless departure

    Speaking as someone who watched with my jaw on the floor at what you did, are you quite certain you want to keep flaunting that repeatedly?

    Rest assured, what you did doesn't just show you for what you are as it throws a very stark light on this place. That it has unbelievably happened twice now on PB is simply staggering.
    What happened to Tim?
    See previous thread. Needless to say it's not what the PB tories are pretending it was.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027
    50p on Sven for WBA job !

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, there seem to have been a few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time.

    Wotcha Mr. D.,

    A few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time? Well, I think we all know what's to blame here - Global Warming. Obvious, innit. I mean, stands to reason. First snow in Egypt in 112 years, the USA frozen solid, storms and helicopter crashes in the UK, got to be down to man-made global warming and us not shutting down our coal fired power stations quick enough. 'Course that was down to Miliband and his Climate Change Act with its pathetically unambitious targets. If he had written in " By 2012 no fossil fuels to be used in the UK for generation of electricity" Cameron and everyone would have voted for it just the same and we would be in a very different place today. A colder, darker place to be sure but reading hand-written books by tallow candles wouldn't be that much of a hardship and at least we wouldn't have had all this wind and rain and the USA wouldn't be freezing its collective nuts off.

    Will nobody think of the Polar Bears?
    You mean apart from the incompetent fop?

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2012/04/husky-1_1895614b.jpg

    *chortle*



  • Options
    Mick_Pork said:

    See previous thread. Needless to say it's not what the PB tories are pretending it was.

    He was banned because he went against Mike Smithson's rule of mentioning a particular poster and also gleefully spoke of the death of that particular poster. His ban has since been rescinded but he hasn't been back. Let's not make him into a Christ figure.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,321
    edited January 2014
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Labour lead down to five:

    CON 32%, LAB 37%, LD 10%, UKIP 14%
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited January 2014

    Mick_Pork said:

    See previous thread. Needless to say it's not what the PB tories are pretending it was.

    He was banned because he went against Mike Smithson's rule of mentioning a particular poster and also gleefully spoke of the death of that particular poster.
    Not why he isn't posting and since other posters have been temporarily banned many times on here of no relevance whatsoever other than for the PB tories to try and pathetically obfuscate what actually happened.

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The more important poll tonight is this one:

    http://www.itv.com/news/2014-01-07/confidence-in-uk-economy-highest-since-2010/

    The public expects (by a narrow margin) the economy to get better this year but (by a clear margin) for them not to benefit personally. How accurate they are will determine the next election.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    YG 37/32/10/14 - what I predicted for yesterday...
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    Mick why are you defending that right-wing Blairite Neocon?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "I can offer the encouraging report that this particular American is still in full posession of his nuts"

    I am pleased to hear it, Mr. B. I expect your doggie is enjoying the cooler climes though.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick why are you defending that right-wing Blairite Neocon?

    Because what was done was frankly shocking and on ever reputable site I've ever been on it certainly wouldn't have been the one who it was done to who is no longer posting.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Tim_B said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    FPT:

    SeanT said:

    Speaking as the man who finally frightened Tim away, I regret his spineless departure

    Speaking as someone who watched with my jaw on the floor at what you did, are you quite certain you want to keep flaunting that repeatedly?

    Rest assured, what you did doesn't just show you for what you are as it throws a very stark light on this place. That it has unbelievably happened twice now on PB is simply staggering.
    What happened to Tim?
    It was revealed that he was actually George Osborne.

  • Options
    oldnatoldnat Posts: 136
    Been quite interesting coming back for a bit - and seeing so many familiar names posting identically to what they were posting a long time back!

    But if there are going to be a series of posts on what might happen in individual English cities when a few folk turn out to vote for councillors, it's time for me to go back to lurking!

    A better use of my time to chat to voters, not you chaps and chapesses.

    Nytol.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick_Pork said:

    TOPPING said:

    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.

    it's pretty bizarre and though the facts are the facts (which will always upset some kippers and tories) the Beeb do seem intent on diving into this feet first and giving the EU elections and kipper core issues huge prominence.
    What facts are these?

    Immigration statistics which the Beeb made a huge show of how they are much less than what most of the public believe they are.
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, there seem to have been a few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time.

    Wotcha Mr. D.,

    A few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time? Well, I think we all know what's to blame here - Global Warming. Obvious, innit. I mean, stands to reason. First snow in Egypt in 112 years, the USA frozen solid, storms and helicopter crashes in the UK, got to be down to man-made global warming and us not shutting down our coal fired power stations quick enough. 'Course that was down to Miliband and his Climate Change Act with its pathetically unambitious targets. If he had written in " By 2012 no fossil fuels to be used in the UK for generation of electricity" Cameron and everyone would have voted for it just the same and we would be in a very different place today. A colder, darker place to be sure but reading hand-written books by tallow candles wouldn't be that much of a hardship and at least we wouldn't have had all this wind and rain and the USA wouldn't be freezing its collective nuts off.

    Will nobody think of the Polar Bears?
    I can offer the encouraging report that this particular American is still in full posession of his nuts, though they might have shrivelled a bit after the record breaking morning low of 6 degrees fahrenheit, when the usual low at this time of year is a tad above freezing.
    Hope you're keeping as warm as possible! The coldest I experienced was -21 in Celsius (I think +9 in Fahrenheit) while I was in Colorado roughly three years ago, but that was a one-off and at night.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited January 2014
    16.4% turnout in Swinton South
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    16.4% turnout in Salford

    84.6% for the NOTA party?
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    Neil said:

    If you can be bothered to wade through the Ladbrokes website (it's seriously bad) they have odds of 5/2 on Labour being a part of the Coalition emerging from the next Irish GE. That seems like good value to me..

    Agreed on both counts (quality of website and quality of bet).

    What do you make of the 5/6 on Labour over 11.5 seats?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    oldnat said:

    Been quite interesting coming back for a bit - and seeing so many familiar names posting identically to what they were posting a long time back!

    But if there are going to be a series of posts on what might happen in individual English cities when a few folk turn out to vote for councillors, it's time for me to go back to lurking!

    A better use of my time to chat to voters, not you chaps and chapesses.

    Nytol.

    Happy New Year Oldnat. Nice to see you pop in from time to time. When you went awol on UKPR I was beginning to think you were Deadnat ! But I see you're back to your old form. Best wishes for 2014 - though obviously not September :-)
  • Options

    16.4% turnout in Swinton South

    83.6% for the NOTA party?
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Mick_Pork said:

    TOPPING said:

    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.

    it's pretty bizarre and though the facts are the facts (which will always upset some kippers and tories) the Beeb do seem intent on diving into this feet first and giving the EU elections and kipper core issues huge prominence.
    The Beeb will always do anything to discomfit the Tories.

  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    oldnat said:

    Been quite interesting coming back for a bit - and seeing so many familiar names posting identically to what they were posting a long time back!

    But if there are going to be a series of posts on what might happen in individual English cities when a few folk turn out to vote for councillors, it's time for me to go back to lurking!

    A better use of my time to chat to voters, not you chaps and chapesses.

    Nytol.

    Lib Dem Voice do it frequently too though usually when they have the odd result to crow about instead of the somewhat more important mass local elections that take place and are a far more accurate measure of public opinion.

    I don't mind them much any more than the minutia of polling changes from day to day on uk polling report for example, but it's self evidently the big trends over time and the bigger election tests that matter the most.

    Be sorry to see you go oldnat but as you say there are bigger outlets which potential voters look to, particularly for scottish political events and matters.

  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    TEST
  • Options
    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    For some strange reason the ability to edit my posts and correct any errors in links or posting has suddenly and inexplicably been removed.

    Could a moderator correct this 'glitch' please.

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771

    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed
    LOL
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed

    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed
    LOL
    Fake Fop Failure.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    LOL indeed.

    :)



  • Options
    Mick_Pork said:

    For some strange reason the ability to edit my posts and correct any errors in links or posting has suddenly and inexplicably been removed.

    Could a moderator correct this 'glitch' please.

    The edit facility is temporarily unavailable for all posters.

    This happens occasionally, and is out of our control when Vanilla do an archival backup or server upgrade.

    In the past, this unavailability has lasted anywhere from two minutes to twelve hours.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed

    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed
    LOL
    Fake Fop Failure.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    LOL indeed.

    :)



    Could your computer problem be a malfunctioning User ?
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    antifrank said:
    Oh I'm older than you think :)
    I can just about remember the snow - I was 6 years old.
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    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    TOPPING said:

    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.

    it's pretty bizarre and though the facts are the facts (which will always upset some kippers and tories) the Beeb do seem intent on diving into this feet first and giving the EU elections and kipper core issues huge prominence.
    What facts are these?

    Immigration statistics which the Beeb made a huge show of how they are much less than what most of the public believe they are.
    The Beeb quoted 2.5 million net immigration in 10 years. I am pretty sure that is as much or even more than most people think.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick_Pork said:

    For some strange reason the ability to edit my posts and correct any errors in links or posting has suddenly and inexplicably been removed.

    Could a moderator correct this 'glitch' please.

    The edit facility is temporarily unavailable for all posters.

    This happens occasionally, and is out of our control when Vanilla do an archival backup or server upgrade.

    In the past, this unavailability has lasted anywhere from two minutes to twelve hours.
    Thank you for the answer. I'm glad to hear we won't be seeing a repeat of the old and all too frequent Disqus errors that were so damaging to the site.

    :)
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed

    Mick_Pork said:

    TEST

    Failed
    LOL
    Fake Fop Failure.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    LOL indeed.

    :)

    Could your computer problem be a malfunctioning User ?
    Could your polling problem be a malfunctioning fop?
    Emily ‏@emeliobedelio 4h

    Hahaha this made me laugh. MBE for #Cameron's hairdresser. "Because I'm worth it " pic.twitter.com/RPFmSBqSt3

    Sunny Hundal ‏@sunny_hundal 4 Jan

    View of Cameron in polling ('out of touch, competent, posh, smug, toff') similar to Mitt Romney (ht @SebastianEPayne) pic.twitter.com/MRuh5r8cE9
    Poor old PB Romneys what a shame.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    DavidL Should help to change the narrative for the Tories from the endless narrative of cuts and being solely for the rich!

    TimB Sounds like a trip to Miami in the Spring could be in order!
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    IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    What happened to Tim was a disgrace. The site is significantly poorer for his absence.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    TOPPING said:

    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.

    it's pretty bizarre and though the facts are the facts (which will always upset some kippers and tories) the Beeb do seem intent on diving into this feet first and giving the EU elections and kipper core issues huge prominence.
    What facts are these?

    Immigration statistics which the Beeb made a huge show of how they are much less than what most of the public believe they are.
    The Beeb quoted 2.5 million net immigration in 10 years. I am pretty sure that is as much or even more than most people think.
    While I am pretty sure that was far from the only statistic they quoted. The point was it's pretty damn strange for the Beeb to be wading into the subject with such gusto this far out from the EU elections. I certainly don't remember that level of factchecking from the Beeb round about the time of Iraq, just as an example.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    Or not.

    "...the research overall points to the minimum wage reducing employment as conventional economic theory predicts. In other words, the minimum wage undermines employment for the least productive whilst raising wages for others."

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/unemployment-and-the-minimum-wage
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    Swinton South
    Lab 661 Con 298 UKIP 215 Green 196 Eng Dem 54 TUSC 43
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    glwglw Posts: 9,556
    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    A bloody good idea.

    I was only the other day thinking that the government need to do something that people will notice, as increases in income tax allowances (which have been big) and good GPD figures do not connect with the public consciousness, and a big increase in the minimum wage was what I thought might work in a way that nothing else will.

    £7.00? Is that practical, I honestly have no idea of what that would cost employers overall, or the effects it would have, but it's a nice target and a significant increase.

    And why not commit to significant increases in the next parliament too? We end up topping up wages via benefits, we should make employers carry more of that weight.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
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    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    Or not.

    "...the research overall points to the minimum wage reducing employment as conventional economic theory predicts. In other words, the minimum wage undermines employment for the least productive whilst raising wages for others."

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/unemployment-and-the-minimum-wage
    But then the taxpayer has to top up the low wages with tax credits, no?
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    IOS said:

    What happened to Tim was a disgrace. The site is significantly poorer for his absence.

    I'm sure the Moderators are happier :)
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    IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Some of the mods it has to be said don't seem keen on what is best for the site sometimes. Tim had his family dragged into an argument. That is totally unacceptable.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    Another Dave It depends on the level it is set, and a shred government should use the minimum wage not only to ensure a minimum income for the working poor but also at a rate which clearly offers an incentive to get a job even at the lowest wage rather than subsist on JSA!
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    TOPPING said:

    Quite funny (!) current interview on immigration on BBC which essentially is saying:

    "why is the public getting it wrong when they say they don't like immigration?"

    Regardless of your views on immigration it's pretty shocking from the BBC.

    it's pretty bizarre and though the facts are the facts (which will always upset some kippers and tories) the Beeb do seem intent on diving into this feet first and giving the EU elections and kipper core issues huge prominence.
    What facts are these?

    Immigration statistics which the Beeb made a huge show of how they are much less than what most of the public believe they are.
    The Beeb quoted 2.5 million net immigration in 10 years. I am pretty sure that is as much or even more than most people think.
    MigrationWatch have numbers going back to 1997, when mass immigration kicked off.

    Non-EU net migration (1997-2011: 3.7m) + (2012: 157,000)
    EU net migration (1997-2011: 800,000) + (2012: 73,000)
    British net migration (1997-2011: -1m) + (2012: -63,000)

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.org.uk/pdfs/BP12_3.pdf

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.org.uk/latest-immigration-statistics
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    Or not.

    "...the research overall points to the minimum wage reducing employment as conventional economic theory predicts. In other words, the minimum wage undermines employment for the least productive whilst raising wages for others."

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/unemployment-and-the-minimum-wage
    But then the taxpayer has to top up the low wages with tax credits, no?
    I don't really understand the tax credits system. It sounds like a tax allowance against earned income, but it seems to be a direct cash payment.

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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2014

    Tim_B said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, there seem to have been a few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time.

    Wotcha Mr. D.,

    A few such incidents in a relatively brief period of time? Well, I think we all know what's to blame here - Global Warming. Obvious, innit. I mean, stands to reason. First snow in Egypt in 112 years, the USA frozen solid, storms and helicopter crashes in the UK, got to be down to man-made global warming and us not shutting down our coal fired power stations quick enough. 'Course that was down to Miliband and his Climate Change Act with its pathetically unambitious targets. If he had written in " By 2012 no fossil fuels to be used in the UK for generation of electricity" Cameron and everyone would have voted for it just the same and we would be in a very different place today. A colder, darker place to be sure but reading hand-written books by tallow candles wouldn't be that much of a hardship and at least we wouldn't have had all this wind and rain and the USA wouldn't be freezing its collective nuts off.

    Will nobody think of the Polar Bears?
    I can offer the encouraging report that this particular American is still in full posession of his nuts, though they might have shrivelled a bit after the record breaking morning low of 6 degrees fahrenheit, when the usual low at this time of year is a tad above freezing.
    Hope you're keeping as warm as possible! The coldest I experienced was -21 in Celsius (I think +9 in Fahrenheit) while I was in Colorado roughly three years ago, but that was a one-off and at night.
    Thank you for the thought!

    0 fahrenheit = -18 centigrade, so minus 21 is about -5 fahrenheit.

    Living for 4 years north of Toronto I have been in much colder weather, for example the second christmas we were there, it was so cold the power lines became brittle and snapped in the wind, and all the Catholics attending midnight mass were trapped as the church doors froze shut. But there you expect it and build for it. We just huddled with blankets and sleeping bags until the power came back.

    Down here walls are less than 6 inches thick and ceilings are 9 feet to cope with the heat. Houses are primarily built of wood rather than the brick of the north east. My thermostat keeps downstairs at 62 overnight, and goes to 68 at 6am. It took until 2.30pm to get to 68. By the end of the week we'll be back in the 60s.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Excited Educator ‏@missedutton 44m

    so close to 100,000 signatures! MICHAEL GOVE TO TEACH FOR A TERM https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/michael-gove-to-teach-for-a-term #edchatuk
    Yet more PR 'genius' from the incompetent twits is clearly required.

    *chortle*
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959

    16.4% turnout in Salford

    84.6% for the NOTA party?
    I think it's 84.6% for the "It's bloody freezing and it's a only a council by-election Party."
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    The Polar Bears at Chicago's Lincoln Park Zoo have been moved indoors as it's too cold for them.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited January 2014
    Smarmeron said:
    Indeed.
    Iain Duncan Smith: Iain Duncan Smith to live on £53 a week.

    This petition calls for Iain Duncan Smith, the current Work and Pensions Secretary, to prove his claim of being able to live on £7.57 a day, or £53 a week.


    https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week
    Currently 481,702 signatures. Bit of a pattern isn't it? It's almost as if the out of touch twits PR and internet campaign master strategy might just be a bit of a joke.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    glw said:

    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    A bloody good idea.

    I was only the other day thinking that the government need to do something that people will notice, as increases in income tax allowances (which have been big) and good GPD figures do not connect with the public consciousness, and a big increase in the minimum wage was what I thought might work in a way that nothing else will.

    £7.00? Is that practical, I honestly have no idea of what that would cost employers overall, or the effects it would have, but it's a nice target and a significant increase.

    And why not commit to significant increases in the next parliament too? We end up topping up wages via benefits, we should make employers carry more of that weight.
    As I have said on here before the increases should be tied to the employment rate. In this year we may create as many as 600K additional jobs in the economy.

    That means there is a real opportunity to address low pay and subsidised wages by aggressive increases in the minimum wage. If employment stops growing then we would need to scale back a bit but at the moment £7.00 seems doable to me.

    Clearly the budgetary implications need thought through as some public sector workers will benefit but the savings in in work benefits should offset that to some degree. I was disappointed this was not in the Autumn statement. I very much hope it forms the centre piece of the budget.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Has Austin Mitchell ever ruled his own quasi-Fascist statelet where people copulate in graveyards?"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100253258/this-man-was-a-sadomasochist-drug-addict-fearless-pilot-and-politician-only-in-italy/
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    @Tim

    My American cousin defends the ostensibly unwieldy Fahrenheit system on the basis that if the temperature is less than zero or more than 100 you know not to venture outdoors.
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    GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    IOS said:

    What happened to Tim was a disgrace. The site is significantly poorer for his absence.

    Rubbish, its much better now that Mr snide comment is no longer here.

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    isamisam Posts: 41,055
    Just watching the immigration programme by Nick Robinson... He shows, using pies(!) that only 12.5 % of people living in Britain are immigrants as if its not as many as you think ... Enoch Powell predicted this in 1968 and was ridiculed for it, and he was only talking about commonwealth immigrants
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    AndyJS said:

    "Has Austin Mitchell ever ruled his own quasi-Fascist statelet where people copulate in graveyards?"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100253258/this-man-was-a-sadomasochist-drug-addict-fearless-pilot-and-politician-only-in-italy/

    FPT:

    Even Hitler ruled Fiume for a longer period than D'Annunzio :)

    (that's September 1943 to May '45, versus Sept 1919 to Dec 1920)
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    GaiusGaius Posts: 227

    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    Or not.

    "...the research overall points to the minimum wage reducing employment as conventional economic theory predicts. In other words, the minimum wage undermines employment for the least productive whilst raising wages for others."

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/unemployment-and-the-minimum-wage
    The Low Pay Commission had a rather interesting report out a few years ago which showed that 70% of those who left the minimum wage did so because of promotion with the same employer or a better job elsewhere.

    With the MW being increased to far to fast, bang goes that social mobility as those at the bottom will never get their first job.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    Gaius said:

    IOS said:

    What happened to Tim was a disgrace. The site is significantly poorer for his absence.

    Rubbish, its much better now that Mr snide comment is no longer here.

    Tim can be snide but he can also be witty and provocative. He is well informed and good at puncturing fanciful balloons with awkward facts. Frequently he was the grit in the oyster stimulating interesting discussions.

    I very much hope he returns to active posting.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    Feels like some Tory bod was reading pb.com a few weeks back!
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    isam said:

    Just watching the immigration programme by Nick Robinson... He shows, using pies(!) that only 12.5 % of people living in Britain are immigrants as if its not as many as you think ... Enoch Powell predicted this in 1968 and was ridiculed for it, and he was only talking about commonwealth immigrants

    Enoch Powell predicted Nick Robinson would begin using pies to illustrate immigration?

    In any case, Nick Robinson isn't talking about what Enoch Powell thought, but what people now think. And people now significantly over-estimate the proportion of the country who are immigrants.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,510
    Gaius said:

    DavidL said:

    Tories on Newsnight promoting the idea of a significant increase in the minimum wage. Good.

    Or not.

    "...the research overall points to the minimum wage reducing employment as conventional economic theory predicts. In other words, the minimum wage undermines employment for the least productive whilst raising wages for others."

    http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/unemployment-and-the-minimum-wage
    The Low Pay Commission had a rather interesting report out a few years ago which showed that 70% of those who left the minimum wage did so because of promotion with the same employer or a better job elsewhere.

    With the MW being increased to far to fast, bang goes that social mobility as those at the bottom will never get their first job.

    That is why above inflation increases need to be tied to the job market. At the moment we have by far the most bouyant job market in Europe so there is room to act.

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    shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    AndyJS said:

    "Has Austin Mitchell ever ruled his own quasi-Fascist statelet where people copulate in graveyards?"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100253258/this-man-was-a-sadomasochist-drug-addict-fearless-pilot-and-politician-only-in-italy/

    FPT:

    Even Hitler ruled Fiume for a longer period than D'Annunzio :)

    (that's September 1943 to May '45, versus Sept 1919 to Dec 1920)

    Tho' he probably had less fun.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,055
    Quincel said:

    isam said:

    Just watching the immigration programme by Nick Robinson... He shows, using pies(!) that only 12.5 % of people living in Britain are immigrants as if its not as many as you think ... Enoch Powell predicted this in 1968 and was ridiculed for it, and he was only talking about commonwealth immigrants

    Enoch Powell predicted Nick Robinson would begin using pies to illustrate immigration?

    In any case, Nick Robinson isn't talking about what Enoch Powell thought, but what people now think. And people now significantly over-estimate the proportion of the country who are immigrants.
    Haha he wasn't that good!

    Yes I know that people over estimate the current number, but just thought I would point out that Powell did predict 12.5%... At the time people accused him of exaggerating, now that it has happened people say "it's only 12.5%"
This discussion has been closed.