politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Losing today’s Brexit vote could prove fatal for Mrs. May’s pr
Comments
-
Did no-one notice? Did anyone blow the whistle or raise concerns? Were they initially ignored?Foxy said:Hmm. This Gosport Memorial Hospital report is pretty bad. 456 dead.
More than a little local difficulty:
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1009384238255427584?s=19
I’m willing to guess the answers: yes, yes and yes.0 -
I'd expect the same number of Labour rebels (plus Kelvin Hopkins) as last week.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Mann is furious against Grieve and will clearly support the government today - just been on Sky newsPulpstar said:
I think there'll only be two Labour rebels, Hoey and Field. Mann, Flint et al will vote on the basis of parliamentary sovereignty - and then probably vote with the Gov't if the 'meaningful vote' actually takes place.Norm said:
Which could be the reason Corbyn is putting heavy pressure on Lab leavers not to support the gov't.Slackbladder said:I actually think if May loses this vote, she'll resign.
0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5864127/Families-wait-answers-major-inquiry-hundreds-hospital-painkiller-deaths.htmlFoxy said:
No criminal charges against anyone at present, so be careful.FrancisUrquhart said:
The report found there was a "disregard for human life" of a large number of patients from 1989 and 2000. Dr Jane Barton was responsible for prescribing painkillers over 12 years.Foxy said:Hmm. This Gosport Memorial Hospital report is pretty bad. 456 dead.
More than a little local difficulty:
twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1009384238255427584?s=19
Unless there has been an oversight, Mail doesn't normally accept comments on sub judice stuff ?0 -
Agreed. An excellent summary.Barnesian said:
Spot onMJW said:
A lot of these problems can be put down to May's initial misjudgements in her 2016 conference speech. In it she judged her main task was to reassure the headbanging wing of the Brexiteers - as a remain PM elected in effect by default. However, the opposite was true - it was her moment to challenge their delusions and make it clear that it would be a difficult technical task. It was also a moment to reassure remainers - who at the time largely reluctantly accepted Brexit would happen in some form - but hardened their attitudes after months of 'Brexit means Brexit' and May effectively arguing that it would be done on the headbangers' terms rather than attempting unity. It also set up a totally unrealistic negotiating position whereby she's promised her party things that the EU were never going to agree to - thus setting up the adversarial negotiations that have resulted in climb downs or fudges since. It was the one point she had a largely open book with Brexit to set out something that would've annoyed the ultras on either side but which was achievable and united those on either side who wanted to be pragmatic about the whole thing. Instead, all sides have become more entrenched as they increasingly see it as a zero sum game rather than a technical project everyone has a stake in and can contribute to.Richard_Nabavi said:The whole situation is completely mad. The clock is ticking, we should be in intensive negotiations with the EU. In fact we should have already largely completed negotiations. Instead we are arguing vehemently with ourselves about hypothetical scenarios and options which don't exist. Meanwhile the EU seems equally out with the fairies.
One can only hope that there is some real discussion going on behind the scenes, and that some last-minute fudge will be created. But it's now too late for business, and especially for the City, which is having to assume no deal and is moving jobs accordingly. Unnecessary damage to our economy (and indeed the EU27's) is now inevitable - and the continuity Remainers and the Lords are at least as much to blame as the headbanging wing of the Brexiteer contingent.
Edit: Having said that, I agree with those who say the government will win this particular vote. However, the guerrilla attacks will no doubt continue.0 -
Is he your constituency MP ?Sean_F said:
I'd expect the same number of Labour rebels (plus Kelvin Hopkins) as last week.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Mann is furious against Grieve and will clearly support the government today - just been on Sky newsPulpstar said:
I think there'll only be two Labour rebels, Hoey and Field. Mann, Flint et al will vote on the basis of parliamentary sovereignty - and then probably vote with the Gov't if the 'meaningful vote' actually takes place.Norm said:
Which could be the reason Corbyn is putting heavy pressure on Lab leavers not to support the gov't.Slackbladder said:I actually think if May loses this vote, she'll resign.
You could send him an email mentioning your good work for Labour leave
! 0 -
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.0 -
Certainly gross over prescribing of opiods has contributed to the overdose death rate in America (now higher than either gun or motor vehicle deaths).AlastairMeeks said:
How does this compare with the US approach to prescribing opioids?FrancisUrquhart said:
The report found there was a "disregard for human life" of a large number of patients from 1989 and 2000. Dr Jane Barton was responsible for prescribing painkillers over 12 years.Foxy said:Hmm. This Gosport Memorial Hospital report is pretty bad. 456 dead.
More than a little local difficulty:
twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1009384238255427584?s=19
Mostly in the US it seems to be voluntary rather than involuntary overconsumption. There has been quite a busy secondary market where pensioners get opiod prescriptions filled for pain, then sell them on to younger addicts to supplement pensions.0 -
Are the SNP going to manage to make it through PMQs today without throwing another hissy fit?0
-
Is the Heathrow vote today ?FrancisUrquhart said:Are the SNP going to manage to make it through PMQs today without throwing another hissy fit?
0 -
I am working at home today so put PMQs on. Beginning to wish I hadn't bothered. Both sides truly pathetic.0
-
"Corbyn is not a dicator"Benpointer said:It's a fair question; I have many reasons. To list a few...
The Labour manifesto was much better than I expected; I rate their policies (so does TMay, apparently as she has started adopting them.) The Tories in contrast are looking like a government that has been in power for 18 years, never mind 8 years; they are bereft of ideas to move the country forward.
The current government is being dictated to by the extreme eurosceptic ERG cabal of 60-70 MPs who are hell-bent on hard Brexit. No way was (or is) there a majority in the country for hard Brexit. If Labour were in power ERG would become just another pressure group, rather than a real danger to the country.
Corbyn is not a dicator, complete the opposite (which is part of his problem) - he will need the support of the PLP which will moderate/stop some of the more extreme Momentum wishes.
I could go on...
Putin was not a dictator. Erdogan was not a dictator. el-Sisi was not a dictator. Chavez was not a dictator. Etc, etc.
You just need to look at the regimes Corbyn supports - Venezuela being an example - and the cultist midset of his 'supporters' who will excuse him anything, to see the direction a Corbynite government with a stonking majority might go.
The Economist had an interesting article recently about dictatrors:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/06/16/lessons-from-the-rise-of-strongmen-in-weak-states
Summing up:
The four stages to dismantling a democracy:
1) First comes a genuine popular grievance with the status quo and, often, with the liberal elites who are in charge.
2) would-be strongmen identify enemies for angry voters to blame.
3) having won power by exploiting fear or discontent, strongmen chisel away at a free press, an impartial justice system and other institutions that form the “liberal” part of liberal democracy
4) in stage four, the erosion of liberal institutions leads to the death of democracy in all but name.
Corbyn might not be that strongman, but someone taking over from him well might be.
Paranoia? Perhaps. But I don't like the warning signs. The cultists' fondness of Leveson 2 being an example.
0 -
Well, that reflects the make-up of Devon......FrancisUrquhart said:BBC vows to increase diversity of senior management by 2020
Corporation will also adopt US-style ‘Rooney rule’ to ensure BAME candidates on shortlists
The BBC has said that by 2020 it wants half of its workforce to be women, 8% disabled people, 8% lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, and 15% to be from a BAME background.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/20/bbc-vows-to-increase-diversity-of-senior-management-by-20200 -
I don’t dismiss him. I wrote a thread header comparing him to Thatcher. It is two of his supporters on here who described him in insulting terms. I think he has, if he becomes PM, the capacity to make changes to Britain which I think will be harmful. I hope I am proved wrong - either because he does not become PM or because, if he does, he does not make the sorts of harmful changes I fear.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management.
I do not rate Mrs May at all. Her handling of Brexit has been woeful and she has utterly failed to follow through on what seemed like quite a good speech when she first became PM.0 -
Yup. Definitely, paranoia.JosiasJessop said:
"Corbyn is not a dicator"Benpointer said:It's a fair question; I have many reasons. To list a few...
The Labour manifesto was much better than I expected; I rate their policies (so does TMay, apparently as she has started adopting them.) The Tories in contrast are looking like a government that has been in power for 18 years, never mind 8 years; they are bereft of ideas to move the country forward.
The current government is being dictated to by the extreme eurosceptic ERG cabal of 60-70 MPs who are hell-bent on hard Brexit. No way was (or is) there a majority in the country for hard Brexit. If Labour were in power ERG would become just another pressure group, rather than a real danger to the country.
Corbyn is not a dicator, complete the opposite (which is part of his problem) - he will need the support of the PLP which will moderate/stop some of the more extreme Momentum wishes.
I could go on...
Putin was not a dictator. Erdogan was not a dictator. el-Sisi was not a dictator. Chavez was not a dictator. Etc, etc.
You just need to look at the regimes Corbyn supports - Venezuela being an example - and the cultist midset of his 'supporters' who will excuse him anything, to see the direction a Corbynite government with a stonking majority might go.
The Economist had an interesting article recently about dictatrors:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/06/16/lessons-from-the-rise-of-strongmen-in-weak-states
Summing up:
The four stages to dismantling a democracy:
1) First comes a genuine popular grievance with the status quo and, often, with the liberal elites who are in charge.
2) would-be strongmen identify enemies for angry voters to blame.
3) having won power by exploiting fear or discontent, strongmen chisel away at a free press, an impartial justice system and other institutions that form the “liberal” part of liberal democracy
4) in stage four, the erosion of liberal institutions leads to the death of democracy in all but name.
Corbyn might not be that strongman, but someone taking over from him well might be.
Paranoia? Perhaps. But I don't like the warning signs. The cultists' fondness of Leveson 2 being an example.
0 -
The investigation has been ongoing for at least 15 years. The Commission for Health Improvement published its report on opiate overprescribing There in July 2002. The timeline is here:Cyclefree said:
Did no-one notice? Did anyone blow the whistle or raise concerns? Were they initially ignored?Foxy said:Hmm. This Gosport Memorial Hospital report is pretty bad. 456 dead.
More than a little local difficulty:
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1009384238255427584?s=19
I’m willing to guess the answers: yes, yes and yes.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/20/gosport-hospital-inquiry-families-get-answers-hundreds-painkiller/
0 -
I thought Tunsia had taken the Irish under Jack Charlton approach to international football, but apparently 17 of Morocco's 23-man squad weren't born in Morocco.0
-
I think it is tomorrowPulpstar said:
Is the Heathrow vote today ?FrancisUrquhart said:Are the SNP going to manage to make it through PMQs today without throwing another hissy fit?
0 -
So now we have that those totally unsustainable and unfunded spending on the NHS is not enough. And Wales. Too tedious for words.0
-
Doesn't it annoy you when people fail to engage with Corbyn? You get all the IRA, Hamas stuff and they say people could never vote for him - forgetting that he got over 40% of the vote last time.Cyclefree said:
I don’t dismiss him. I wrote a thread header comparing him to Thatcher. It is two of his supporters on here who described him in insulting terms. I think he has, if he becomes PM, the capacity to make changes to Britain which I think will be harmful. I hope I am proved wrong - either because he does not become PM or because, if he does, he does not make the sorts of harmful changes I fear.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management.
I do not rate Mrs May at all. Her handling of Brexit has been woeful and she has utterly failed to follow through on what seemed like quite a good speech when she first became PM.
People need to take him seriously.0 -
I believe 5/23 of the Swiss team were eligible to play for Kosovo. Asylum seekers done good.FrancisUrquhart said:I thought Tunsia had taken the Irish under Jack Charlton approach to international football, but apparently 17 of Morocco's 23-man squad weren't born in Morocco.
0 -
That is a slightly different situation, in that didn't they all arrive in Switzerland as kids whose family had fled the war?Foxy said:
I believe 5/23 of the Swiss team were eligible to play for Kosovo. Asylum seekers done good.FrancisUrquhart said:I thought Tunsia had taken the Irish under Jack Charlton approach to international football, but apparently 17 of Morocco's 23-man squad weren't born in Morocco.
Tunsia and Morrocco have a policy (like Ireland did) of basically going out into the French and Dutch leagues and finding players who could qualify through family linkage. Having 17 of a 23 man squad seems quite ridiculous level.
Obviously England have done it in the past with cricket and rugby and the gulf states "import" a lot of athletes.
It just seems the rules for world sport are a bit of a joke. I don't really see a problem of moving as a kid to a different country, growing up there and then representing them, but when you get this situation where they have never lived there, often played for different international teams beforehand and then swap (with the rules being this rather silly "not in a competitive match, but friendlies are ok).0 -
Blackford raises Trump. Quite right too.0
-
Sounds like Corbyn just lost on the NHS - he really should have gone on Trump, especially on World Refugees Day.0
-
-
"Doesn't it annoy you when people fail to engage with Corbyn? You get all the IRA, Hamas stuff and they say people could never vote for him - forgetting that he got over 40% of the vote last time.
People need to take him seriously".
I think people do take him seriously. It is the unreconstructed Blairites and ultra remainers who don't. Look at the contempt shown towards him by the likes of Alastair Campbell or Blairite jouunalists like Rachel Sylvester and Philip Collins in the Times.0 -
Yes , he has certainly got that persistent irrational feeling..Jonathan said:
Yup. Definitely, paranoia.JosiasJessop said:
"Corbyn is not a dicator"Benpointer said:It's a fair question; I have many reasons. To list a few...
The Labour manifesto was much better than I expected; I rate their policies (so does TMay, apparently as she has started adopting them.) The Tories in contrast are looking like a government that has been in power for 18 years, never mind 8 years; they are bereft of ideas to move the country forward.
The current government is being dictated to by the extreme eurosceptic ERG cabal of 60-70 MPs who are hell-bent on hard Brexit. No way was (or is) there a majority in the country for hard Brexit. If Labour were in power ERG would become just another pressure group, rather than a real danger to the country.
Corbyn is not a dicator, complete the opposite (which is part of his problem) - he will need the support of the PLP which will moderate/stop some of the more extreme Momentum wishes.
I could go on...
Putin was not a dictator. Erdogan was not a dictator. el-Sisi was not a dictator. Chavez was not a dictator. Etc, etc.
You just need to look at the regimes Corbyn supports - Venezuela being an example - and the cultist midset of his 'supporters' who will excuse him anything, to see the direction a Corbynite government with a stonking majority might go.
The Economist had an interesting article recently about dictatrors:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/06/16/lessons-from-the-rise-of-strongmen-in-weak-states
Summing up:
The four stages to dismantling a democracy:
1) First comes a genuine popular grievance with the status quo and, often, with the liberal elites who are in charge.
2) would-be strongmen identify enemies for angry voters to blame.
3) having won power by exploiting fear or discontent, strongmen chisel away at a free press, an impartial justice system and other institutions that form the “liberal” part of liberal democracy
4) in stage four, the erosion of liberal institutions leads to the death of democracy in all but name.
Corbyn might not be that strongman, but someone taking over from him well might be.
Paranoia? Perhaps. But I don't like the warning signs. The cultists' fondness of Leveson 2 being an example.0 -
Wes Morgan has Captained the Jamaica team, despite being born in Nottingham and living his whole life in the East Midlands.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is a slightly different situation, in that didn't they all arrive in Switzerland as kids whose family had fled the war?Foxy said:
I believe 5/23 of the Swiss team were eligible to play for Kosovo. Asylum seekers done good.FrancisUrquhart said:I thought Tunsia had taken the Irish under Jack Charlton approach to international football, but apparently 17 of Morocco's 23-man squad weren't born in Morocco.
Tunsia and Morrocco have a policy (like Ireland did) of basically going out into the French and Dutch leagues and finding players who could qualify through family linkage. Having 17 of a 23 man squad seems quite ridiculous level.
Obviously England have done it in the past with cricket and rugby and the gulf states "import" a lot of athletes.
It just seems the rules for world sport are a bit of a joke. I don't really see a problem of moving as a kid to a different country, growing up there and then representing them, but when you get this situation where they have never lived there, often played for different international teams beforehand and then swap (with the rules being this rather silly "not in a competitive match, but friendlies are ok).
Zola Budd or Kevin Pietersen anyone?0 -
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.0 -
Jonathan said:
Yes it does annoy me. I think he is underestimated. I do not support him but I do not underestimate him. I think that he would be a very bad PM and that many (though not all) the changes he is likely to or wants to make will be bad for Britain.Cyclefree said:
Doesn't it annoy you when people fail to engage with Corbyn? You get all the IRA, Hamas stuff and they say people could never vote for him - forgetting that he got over 40% of the vote last time.Jonathan said:
I don’t dismiss him. I wrote a thread header comparing him to Thatcher. It is two of his supporters on here who described him in insulting terms. I think he has, if he becomes PM, the capacity to make changes to Britain which I think will be harmful. I hope I am proved wrong - either because he does not become PM or because, if he does, he does not make the sorts of harmful changes I fear.Cyclefree said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Jonathan said:Cyclefree said:
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management.
I do not rate Mrs May at all. Her handling of Brexit has been woeful and she has utterly failed to follow through on what seemed like quite a good speech when she first became PM.
People need to take him seriously.
But I am a bit baffled that people will vote for him while not rating him. And there is a danger there for him, of course: that his support is shallow and some of those voting for him will turn against him when he does something they don’t like. Again, much as with May.0 -
Half an hour in to PMQ's and still no questions about today's vote.
Theresa's won it hasn't she?0 -
Well at this WC, Egypt have a lad from Wolverhampton, whose whole career has been in England and who currently plays for Wigan.Foxy said:
Wes Morgan has Captained the Jamaica team, despite being born in Nottingham and living his whole life in the East Midlands.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is a slightly different situation, in that didn't they all arrive in Switzerland as kids whose family had fled the war?Foxy said:
I believe 5/23 of the Swiss team were eligible to play for Kosovo. Asylum seekers done good.FrancisUrquhart said:I thought Tunsia had taken the Irish under Jack Charlton approach to international football, but apparently 17 of Morocco's 23-man squad weren't born in Morocco.
Tunsia and Morrocco have a policy (like Ireland did) of basically going out into the French and Dutch leagues and finding players who could qualify through family linkage. Having 17 of a 23 man squad seems quite ridiculous level.
Obviously England have done it in the past with cricket and rugby and the gulf states "import" a lot of athletes.
It just seems the rules for world sport are a bit of a joke. I don't really see a problem of moving as a kid to a different country, growing up there and then representing them, but when you get this situation where they have never lived there, often played for different international teams beforehand and then swap (with the rules being this rather silly "not in a competitive match, but friendlies are ok).
Zola Budd or Kevin Pietersen anyone?
Yes, as I said, it isn't limited to any one nation. I was just saying that the rules are nonsense. Re cricket, Jofra Archer, one of the brigtest stars in T20 game is willing to put his international career on hold for 7 years just to play for England.
The athletics seems to be the biggest joke, loads have changed nation because they have been offered a better funding package.0 -
Doubt anyone will raise it - we will see the result at about 3.45 todayGIN1138 said:Half an hour in to PMQ's and still no questions about today's vote.
Theresa's won it hasn't she?0 -
Really? Okay (and try replying with more than three words). Tell me why Corbyn finds Venezuela such an excellent place, and one which he wanted us to emulate. Why he finds it so hard to blame Russia when they attack us? Why he wants Leveson 2 to go ahead to muzzle the free press, etc, etc.Jonathan said:
Yup. Definitely, paranoia.JosiasJessop said:
"Corbyn is not a dicator"Benpointer said:It's a fair question; I have many reasons. To list a few...
The Labour manifesto was much better than I expected; I rate their policies (so does TMay, apparently as she has started adopting them.) The Tories in contrast are looking like a government that has been in power for 18 years, never mind 8 years; they are bereft of ideas to move the country forward.
The current government is being dictated to by the extreme eurosceptic ERG cabal of 60-70 MPs who are hell-bent on hard Brexit. No way was (or is) there a majority in the country for hard Brexit. If Labour were in power ERG would become just another pressure group, rather than a real danger to the country.
Corbyn is not a dicator, complete the opposite (which is part of his problem) - he will need the support of the PLP which will moderate/stop some of the more extreme Momentum wishes.
I could go on...
Putin was not a dictator. Erdogan was not a dictator. el-Sisi was not a dictator. Chavez was not a dictator. Etc, etc.
You just need to look at the regimes Corbyn supports - Venezuela being an example - and the cultist midset of his 'supporters' who will excuse him anything, to see the direction a Corbynite government with a stonking majority might go.
The Economist had an interesting article recently about dictatrors:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/06/16/lessons-from-the-rise-of-strongmen-in-weak-states
Summing up:
The four stages to dismantling a democracy:
1) First comes a genuine popular grievance with the status quo and, often, with the liberal elites who are in charge.
2) would-be strongmen identify enemies for angry voters to blame.
3) having won power by exploiting fear or discontent, strongmen chisel away at a free press, an impartial justice system and other institutions that form the “liberal” part of liberal democracy
4) in stage four, the erosion of liberal institutions leads to the death of democracy in all but name.
Corbyn might not be that strongman, but someone taking over from him well might be.
Paranoia? Perhaps. But I don't like the warning signs. The cultists' fondness of Leveson 2 being an example.
Corbyn and his cultists are about control. As we are seeing around the world, democracy is a fragile thing, and it needs protecting. I'm far from sure Corbyn is interested in that.0 -
If that's the case, then put my mind at rest. For instance, do you not finding the support Corbynm and his allies (e.g. Milne, Williamson, McDonnell) for Chavez and/or Maduro a little concerning?Yorkcity said:
Yes , he has certainly got that persistent irrational feeling..Jonathan said:
Yup. Definitely, paranoia.JosiasJessop said:
"Corbyn is not a dicator"Benpointer said:It's a fair question; I have many reasons. To list a few...
The Labour manifesto was much better than I expected; I rate their policies (so does TMay, apparently as she has started adopting them.) The Tories in contrast are looking like a government that has been in power for 18 years, never mind 8 years; they are bereft of ideas to move the country forward.
The current government is being dictated to by the extreme eurosceptic ERG cabal of 60-70 MPs who are hell-bent on hard Brexit. No way was (or is) there a majority in the country for hard Brexit. If Labour were in power ERG would become just another pressure group, rather than a real danger to the country.
Corbyn is not a dicator, complete the opposite (which is part of his problem) - he will need the support of the PLP which will moderate/stop some of the more extreme Momentum wishes.
I could go on...
Putin was not a dictator. Erdogan was not a dictator. el-Sisi was not a dictator. Chavez was not a dictator. Etc, etc.
You just need to look at the regimes Corbyn supports - Venezuela being an example - and the cultist midset of his 'supporters' who will excuse him anything, to see the direction a Corbynite government with a stonking majority might go.
The Economist had an interesting article recently about dictatrors:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/06/16/lessons-from-the-rise-of-strongmen-in-weak-states
Summing up:
The four stages to dismantling a democracy:
1) First comes a genuine popular grievance with the status quo and, often, with the liberal elites who are in charge.
2) would-be strongmen identify enemies for angry voters to blame.
3) having won power by exploiting fear or discontent, strongmen chisel away at a free press, an impartial justice system and other institutions that form the “liberal” part of liberal democracy
4) in stage four, the erosion of liberal institutions leads to the death of democracy in all but name.
Corbyn might not be that strongman, but someone taking over from him well might be.
Paranoia? Perhaps. But I don't like the warning signs. The cultists' fondness of Leveson 2 being an example.
Do you not feel the Leveson 2 proposals might be stamping a little too much on vital press freedoms?
I could go on, but it'd be interesting to see your responses.0 -
I’m not sure why LGBT people should get double their share of the population. Surely there’s already overepresentation in the media, not to mention politics?MarqueeMark said:
Well, that reflects the make-up of Devon......FrancisUrquhart said:BBC vows to increase diversity of senior management by 2020
Corporation will also adopt US-style ‘Rooney rule’ to ensure BAME candidates on shortlists
The BBC has said that by 2020 it wants half of its workforce to be women, 8% disabled people, 8% lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, and 15% to be from a BAME background.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/20/bbc-vows-to-increase-diversity-of-senior-management-by-2020
0 -
Well there may be an opening for such an individual as host of the Apprentice....RoyalBlue said:
I’m not sure why LGBT people should get double their share of the population. Surely there’s already overepresentation in the media, not to mention politics?MarqueeMark said:
Well, that reflects the make-up of Devon......FrancisUrquhart said:BBC vows to increase diversity of senior management by 2020
Corporation will also adopt US-style ‘Rooney rule’ to ensure BAME candidates on shortlists
The BBC has said that by 2020 it wants half of its workforce to be women, 8% disabled people, 8% lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, and 15% to be from a BAME background.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/20/bbc-vows-to-increase-diversity-of-senior-management-by-20200 -
Is 8% double their share? I thought estimates were between 5 and 10%RoyalBlue said:
I’m not sure why LGBT people should get double their share of the population. Surely there’s already overepresentation in the media, not to mention politics?MarqueeMark said:
Well, that reflects the make-up of Devon......FrancisUrquhart said:BBC vows to increase diversity of senior management by 2020
Corporation will also adopt US-style ‘Rooney rule’ to ensure BAME candidates on shortlists
The BBC has said that by 2020 it wants half of its workforce to be women, 8% disabled people, 8% lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, and 15% to be from a BAME background.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/20/bbc-vows-to-increase-diversity-of-senior-management-by-20200 -
-
Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.0
-
Bombshell from Lisa Nandy at PMQs. She has been leaked emails between officials at the Department for Transport which admit key northern routes are ‘not really valued’:
https://order-order.com/2018/06/20/read-leaked-emails-show-dft-officials-lied-northern-rail/0 -
Btw, 12.51 and still going? This is ridiculous.0
-
It was a good question. Answers came there none (as usual).FrancisUrquhart said:Bombshell from Lisa Nandy at PMQs. She has been leaked emails between officials at the Department for Transport which admit key northern routes are ‘not really valued’:
https://order-order.com/2018/06/20/read-leaked-emails-show-dft-officials-lied-northern-rail/0 -
I fear McDonnell even more.Sean_F said:
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.
I think he’d ruin my family, and millions of others like it.0 -
Shussh! You're damaging the reputation of the NHS!DavidL said:Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.
0 -
Guardian snap verdict:
Corbyn clearly had the best of the argument. His questions weren’t particularly flash, but they were were pertinent and reasonable, and May didn’t even begin to answer them. Where will all the money for the NHS come from? What taxes will go up? Will there be extra borrowing? These are proper questions (not loaded PMQs jibes, which the PM can ignore with some justification) and May’s perfectly articulate flannel could not really hide the fact that Corbyn had a point. He is outscoring May on fiscal prudence. The Tories ought to be worried ....0 -
Though to be fair it was not just the NHS, the doctor in question had a brother who was an Oxford medicine professor and was well known in Gosport society and a friend of local Tory MP (now retired) Sir Peter ViggarsDavidL said:Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.
0 -
Irrational fear.Casino_Royale said:
I fear McDonnell even more.Sean_F said:
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.
I think he’d ruin my family, and millions of others like it.
What on earth do you fear.0 -
0
-
May has already said taxes will have to go up for the NHS, probably income tax and/or NI so beyond debating points there is no difference between the parties on thatNickPalmer said:Guardian snap verdict:
Corbyn clearly had the best of the argument. His questions weren’t particularly flash, but they were were pertinent and reasonable, and May didn’t even begin to answer them. Where will all the money for the NHS come from? What taxes will go up? Will there be extra borrowing? These are proper questions (not loaded PMQs jibes, which the PM can ignore with some justification) and May’s perfectly articulate flannel could not really hide the fact that Corbyn had a point. He is outscoring May on fiscal prudence. The Tories ought to be worried ....0 -
Oh no another BREXIT compromise on the way according to LK0
-
-
If you had a binary choice between cancelling Brexit and a majority Corbyn/McDonnell government, which would you go for?Casino_Royale said:
I fear McDonnell even more.Sean_F said:
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.
I think he’d ruin my family, and millions of others like it.0 -
The first of those is a reasonable comment IMO (though context might change that). The second seems just to be a statement of reality.FrancisUrquhart said:Bombshell from Lisa Nandy at PMQs. She has been leaked emails between officials at the Department for Transport which admit key northern routes are ‘not really valued’:
https://order-order.com/2018/06/20/read-leaked-emails-show-dft-officials-lied-northern-rail/
The third, though is a bit of a wow comment. As ever, never say anything in an email that might embarrass you if it gets out...0 -
Don't say I didn't warn you...Scott_P said:0 -
And that sums up the core problem with the 27 state EU in its current form. It is too slow / rigid to be able to adapt with the rapidly changing modern world.Scott_P said:twitter.com/Laura_K_Hughes/status/1009402643205251072
0 -
The man’s a Marxist. Regimes inspired by Marx killed 100 million of their own people, and made life a misery for the rest. McDonnell is proud not to accept donations from ‘bourgeois organisations’.bigjohnowls said:
Irrational fear.Casino_Royale said:
I fear McDonnell even more.Sean_F said:
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.
I think he’d ruin my family, and millions of others like it.
What on earth do you fear.
He is extremely dangerous.0 -
What does BAME even mean? I understand the black bit. But what about someone who is mixed race? How are they classed? Does minority ethnic include jews and irish people and chinese? What about poles living in Britain? How can the BBC know about sexuality? Is it even legal to ask? And what of people who tell them that their private life is their own business? Will it start making redundant or sacking those who are in an over-represented category? Why aren’t religions included? What about age discrimination? Why no quota for the over 50’s woman?Stereotomy said:
Is 8% double their share? I thought estimates were between 5 and 10%RoyalBlue said:
I’m not sure why LGBT people should get double their share of the population. Surely there’s already overepresentation in the media, not to mention politics?MarqueeMark said:
Well, that reflects the make-up of Devon......FrancisUrquhart said:BBC vows to increase diversity of senior management by 2020
Corporation will also adopt US-style ‘Rooney rule’ to ensure BAME candidates on shortlists
The BBC has said that by 2020 it wants half of its workforce to be women, 8% disabled people, 8% lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, and 15% to be from a BAME background.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/20/bbc-vows-to-increase-diversity-of-senior-management-by-2020
We really need a South African to guide us through this maze and tell us into what category we fall or should aim for.0 -
That’s constitutional government for you. The core of your argument is not a critique of the EU but of constitutional democracy.FrancisUrquhart said:
And that sums up the core problem with the 27 state EU in its current form. It is too slow / rigid to be able to adapt with the rapidly changing modern world.Scott_P said:twitter.com/Laura_K_Hughes/status/1009402643205251072
0 -
-
No it isn't, the problem is having both the EU parliament and then 27 very different nations, with very different economies and thus very different priorities, all having to process things.williamglenn said:
That’s constitutional government for you. The core of your argument is not a critique of the EU but of constitutional democracy.FrancisUrquhart said:
And that sums up the core problem with the 27 state EU in its current form. It is too slow / rigid to be able to adapt with the rapidly changing modern world.Scott_P said:twitter.com/Laura_K_Hughes/status/1009402643205251072
6 similar nations is much more manageable.0 -
When you are talking about 456 "shortened lives" and another 200 potential victims where the paperwork is missing you are not talking about a single rogue doctor. You are talking about a systemic approach which took a view on the value of these sick and elderly lives.HYUFD said:
Though to be fair it was not just the NHS, the doctor in question had a brother who was an Oxford medicine professor and was well known in Gosport society and a friend of local Tory MP (now retired) Sir Peter ViggarsDavidL said:Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.
0 -
Only if we do not get the outline if the agreement and any associate status by the autumnScott_P said:0 -
51% of voters think a Corbyn government would be a change for the worse but only 41% think Brexit will be a change for the worse according to the Ashcroft poll yesterdaywilliamglenn said:
If you had a binary choice between cancelling Brexit and a majority Corbyn/McDonnell government, which would you go for?Casino_Royale said:
I fear McDonnell even more.Sean_F said:
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.
I think he’d ruin my family, and millions of others like it.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2018/06/brexit-the-border-and-the-union/#more-156160 -
-
-
The whole Gosport Trust needs reform it seems agreedDavidL said:
When you are talking about 456 "shortened lives" and another 200 potential victims where the paperwork is missing you are not talking about a single rogue doctor. You are talking about a systemic approach which took a view on the value of these sick and elderly lives.HYUFD said:
Though to be fair it was not just the NHS, the doctor in question had a brother who was an Oxford medicine professor and was well known in Gosport society and a friend of local Tory MP (now retired) Sir Peter ViggarsDavidL said:Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.
0 -
I hope he laid that off with Ronaldo to score multiple goals...cos Portugal are going to take theScott_P said:twitter.com/shadsy/status/1009407561265745921
MorrocanFrench Foreign legion team to the cleaners.0 -
To be fair to David Davis, he's only been working part-time on Brexit.TheScreamingEagles said:
He probably assumed whoever took over would make a bit more of an effort, 5 days a week 9-5 etc. We ought to give him until 2020 really...0 -
4 minutes. Not that shrewd then.Scott_P said:0 -
Who do you think Jezza is going to killRoyalBlue said:
The man’s a Marxist. Regimes inspired by Marx killed 100 million of their own people, and made life a misery for the rest. McDonnell is proud not to accept donations from ‘bourgeois organisations’.bigjohnowls said:
Irrational fear.Casino_Royale said:
I fear McDonnell even more.Sean_F said:
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.
I think he’d ruin my family, and millions of others like it.
What on earth do you fear.
He is extremely dangerous.
Would have thought the War Criminal with Iraq the Tories Austerity have more Blood on their hands than any previous Government.0 -
The obvious question to ask is if it could and did happen in Gosport, can we be certain that something similar is not happening in other trusts?HYUFD said:
The whole Gosport Trust needs reform it seems agreedDavidL said:
When you are talking about 456 "shortened lives" and another 200 potential victims where the paperwork is missing you are not talking about a single rogue doctor. You are talking about a systemic approach which took a view on the value of these sick and elderly lives.HYUFD said:
Though to be fair it was not just the NHS, the doctor in question had a brother who was an Oxford medicine professor and was well known in Gosport society and a friend of local Tory MP (now retired) Sir Peter ViggarsDavidL said:Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.
0 -
For Central? No need. The chef's expanded to London, just round the corner from SeanT iirc.FrancisUrquhart said:Looks like I need a trip to Peru...
https://www.theworlds50best.com/list/1-50-winners
https://www.limalondongroup.com/fitzrovia/about
0 -
Mid Staffs, Morecambe Bay? Of course statistically it is likely there have been a few such instancesCyclefree said:
The obvious question to ask is if it could and did happen in Gosport, can we be certain that something similar is not happening in other trusts?HYUFD said:
The whole Gosport Trust needs reform it seems agreedDavidL said:
When you are talking about 456 "shortened lives" and another 200 potential victims where the paperwork is missing you are not talking about a single rogue doctor. You are talking about a systemic approach which took a view on the value of these sick and elderly lives.HYUFD said:
Though to be fair it was not just the NHS, the doctor in question had a brother who was an Oxford medicine professor and was well known in Gosport society and a friend of local Tory MP (now retired) Sir Peter ViggarsDavidL said:Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.
0 -
Limpet like ! - Meeks' tips to lay her going were good ones I think. Quite clear May is making sure she won't lose the vote today, hopefully this post will age better than Shadsy's tweet.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I didn't know that, however I somehow can't imagine the Ceviche is quite the same. I have been to the "Ceviche" restaurant in London and it just isn't the same as having it in the Americas.DecrepitJohnL said:
For Central? No need. The chef's expanded to London, just round the corner from SeanT iirc.FrancisUrquhart said:Looks like I need a trip to Peru...
https://www.theworlds50best.com/list/1-50-winners
https://www.limalondongroup.com/fitzrovia/about0 -
-
Maybe get each grouping to go to stand in different corner of the room. That should make it easier to distinguish amongst them.Cyclefree said:
What does BAME even mean? I understand the black bit. But what about someone who is mixed race? How are they classed? Does minority ethnic include jews and irish people and chinese? What about poles living in Britain? How can the BBC know about sexuality? Is it even legal to ask? And what of people who tell them that their private life is their own business? Will it start making redundant or sacking those who are in an over-represented category? Why aren’t religions included? What about age discrimination? Why no quota for the over 50’s woman?Stereotomy said:
Is 8% double their share? I thought estimates were between 5 and 10%RoyalBlue said:
I’m not sure why LGBT people should get double their share of the population. Surely there’s already overepresentation in the media, not to mention politics?MarqueeMark said:
Well, that reflects the make-up of Devon......FrancisUrquhart said:BBC vows to increase diversity of senior management by 2020
Corporation will also adopt US-style ‘Rooney rule’ to ensure BAME candidates on shortlists
The BBC has said that by 2020 it wants half of its workforce to be women, 8% disabled people, 8% lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people, and 15% to be from a BAME background.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/20/bbc-vows-to-increase-diversity-of-senior-management-by-2020
We really need a South African to guide us through this maze and tell us into what category we fall or should aim for.0 -
Couldn't Soubry and Clarke pair off within their own partyScott_P said:
? 0 -
I thought Jezza had put a stop to pairing?Scott_P said:0 -
Barnacle Theresa.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
VAR.
What is is good for?
Absolutely nothing.0 -
Swedish Democrats, who led a recent Swedish poll for September's Swedish general election, call for a Swexit EU referendum in Sweden
https://mobile.twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/10093420959272345610 -
Interesting for anyone betting live on the WC (who is not in Russia at the game) - difficult to know which is the live feed, given the multiplicity of channel deliveries.TheScreamingEagles said:VAR.
What is is good for?
Absolutely nothing.0 -
Aah poor Jonathan Reynolds - obviously doesn't remember the halycon days of 1978Scott_P said:0 -
And whose power is it in to offer that choice ?williamglenn said:
If you had a binary choice between cancelling Brexit and a majority Corbyn/McDonnell government, which would you go for?Casino_Royale said:
I fear McDonnell even more.Sean_F said:
It's because I don't underrate him, that I think he could achieve a great deal of harm, as Prime Minister.Jonathan said:
I find that some who are anti Corbyn are foolishly - in my view - dismissive of him and what he has achieved.Cyclefree said:
I was thinking of his early years as leader when he faced votes of no confidence from the PLP and Shadow Cabinet resignations (though some more junior resignations have happened in recent weeks) which would likely have felled a different leader.Jonathan said:
???Cyclefree said:Corbyn is very like May: the ability to hang on and on and defy all attempts to oust him. There is more to leadership than that, as we are seeing with Mrs May.
He does have the advantage over May of having defeated his rivals twice and of having outperformed expectations at the GE. I disagree with @Dura_Ace and @Benpointer on one point: he may be dim and lazy but he is cunning and so I think his capacity to harm is considerably greater than they suppose and the PLP’s ability to restrain him will be largely non-existent. The PLP couldn’t take the skin off a rice pudding.
By accident or design, he has managed capture and re-energise one of the two big parties. He managed to connect with young people in a way that no-one has since Blair. His performance in 2017 exceeded expectations. He was actually good on the stump. Refreshingly direct and clear.
I disagree with him on many things. Ironically, I think he resembles Blair in many ways. He certainly has made all the same mistakes as Blair in his party management. If he could find a way to motivate the other tribes of the left he could well win.
But however much you disagree with him, he should not be dismissed. He has led Labour to a new place. No doubt about that.
---
May on the other hand, doesn't offer much on leadership. For me she is a poor man's late Gordon Brown. It's all about duty, resilience and tactical party management. The Tories are where they were two years ago, but weaker.
I think he’d ruin my family, and millions of others like it.
No one's.0 -
I see. Has that idiot from Sheffield Hallam been voting recently?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Looking at the way the Government are playing silly buggers with the shared amendment, refusing to pair, and that written minsterial statement, I really hope they lose by exactly 1 vote.
That way, it's all blamed on them ducking the vote from the previous week, when the Lewisham East MP wasn't there. They've trampled so much on parliamentary procedures and their own promises, there deserves to be some real comeback.0 -
The pseudo dramas over these parliamentary votes is utterly tiresome. The government will 'win', there is no doubt.
I actually agree with @Mortimer on this – the chance of a successful rebellion is always over ramped by political nerds and commentators who have nothing better to do. Instead of tweeting about chief whips' thumbs, perhaps Laura K would care to put a number on her prediction?
Lots of heat, little light – and never any real drama.
0 -
Gosport seems different. Those others were neglect, but this seems specific to excessive opiod prescribing, rather than overall care.HYUFD said:
Mid Staffs, Morecambe Bay? Of course statistically it is likely there have been a few such instancesCyclefree said:
The obvious question to ask is if it could and did happen in Gosport, can we be certain that something similar is not happening in other trusts?HYUFD said:
The whole Gosport Trust needs reform it seems agreedDavidL said:
When you are talking about 456 "shortened lives" and another 200 potential victims where the paperwork is missing you are not talking about a single rogue doctor. You are talking about a systemic approach which took a view on the value of these sick and elderly lives.HYUFD said:
Though to be fair it was not just the NHS, the doctor in question had a brother who was an Oxford medicine professor and was well known in Gosport society and a friend of local Tory MP (now retired) Sir Peter ViggarsDavidL said:Norman Lamb gives a good question about Gosport War Memorial hospital. Another shocking example of the NHS trying to hide a serious scandal.
0
