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Sri Lanka at home is a much more difficult opponent than Sri Lanka away; even without a dodgy Galle wicket..OblitusSumMe said:
Sri Lanka look to be at a low ebb, judging by their performance against the West Indies.The_Mule_ said:Thank you to all who welcomed me.
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Voted (and campaigned for) Leave as I was living in the UK then. Now an expat living and working in Sri Lanka (so looking forward(?) to England's tour here in October/November.
An England touring party is just the boost they need.0 -
Mr. Mule, thou art a heathen of history!
I do agree Scipio was better than Caesar, but Hannibal had colossal achievements and failed not through lack of ability but because the Roman state/constitution was all but invincible at that time in history, whereas Carthage, whilst occasionally having great commanders (Hannibal's father Hamilcar was no slouch either), was fundamentally weak.0 -
True , makes you wonder ,why backbenchers are so compliant .I suppose some are hoping for promotion.So this out ways , what they think is best for the country.Anazina said:Just seen the news about Dr Phillip Lee.
What is this we see, a politician putting country before party and resigning on a matter of principle?
Maybe the world isn't so bad after all.
Congratulations to him.0 -
Given that weakness was a tad silly then to spend 15 years faffing in Italy whilst leaving Carthage under defendedMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Mule, thou art a heathen of history!
I do agree Scipio was better than Caesar, but Hannibal had colossal achievements and failed not through lack of ability but because the Roman state/constitution was all but invincible at that time in history, whereas Carthage, whilst occasionally having great commanders (Hannibal's father Hamilcar was no slouch either), was fundamentally weak.
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Good line from Banks - "My belief is that we should have had immigration at 50-75k a year. Successive Labour and Conservative governments just didn't care. Labour didn't care because it was voters for them, and the Tories didn't care because it was cheap labour for them."0
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Mr. Mule, keeping the war in Italy that long kept the possibility of victory alive.
And marauding around Italy without defeat or capture for a decade and a half was damned impressive.
Certainly more impressive than Caesar attacking Gergovia and running away, or doing likewise at Dyrrachium.0 -
For sure beating the Gauls under Vercingetorix doesnt compare with Hannibal or Scipio Africanus. Caesar though got to write his own propaganda - perhaps he had money from the Rus.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Mule, keeping the war in Italy that long kept the possibility of victory alive.
And marauding around Italy without defeat or capture for a decade and a half was damned impressive.
Certainly more impressive than Caesar attacking Gergovia and running away, or doing likewise at Dyrrachium.0 -
I don't have sound on the parliament feed but Banks looks like he's enjoying himself.0
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Indeed, Philip Lee's Bracknell constituency voted LeaveRichard_Tyndall said:
The national party should not be expelling MPs for voting with their principles. They should however answer to their local constituency parties.TheScreamingEagles said:
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.RoyalBlue said:
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?RoyalBlue said:
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!Philip_Thompson said:
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.RoyalBlue said:
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?Scott_P said:
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.0 -
Mr. Mule, well, he got to start writing his own propaganda. He got himself murdered in under a year after his victory (having accidentally burnt down one of the Ancient Wonders of the World when he cockily got himself trapped in Alexandria).0
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He's waiting for the next crypto currency infusion from Russia to fund it.rottenborough said:0 -
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Yeh, yeh, yaddy. I refer you to Edmund Burke.HYUFD said:
Indeed, Philip Lee's Bracknell constituency voted LeaveRichard_Tyndall said:
The national party should not be expelling MPs for voting with their principles. They should however answer to their local constituency parties.TheScreamingEagles said:
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.RoyalBlue said:
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?RoyalBlue said:
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!Philip_Thompson said:
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.RoyalBlue said:
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?Scott_P said:
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.0 -
Lovely place to watch cricket. Was very impressed with the way the ground staff mopped up after rain, too. Could teach Yorkshire a thing or two.The_Mule_ said:
Sri Lanka at home is a much more difficult opponent than Sri Lanka away; even without a dodgy Galle wicket..OblitusSumMe said:
Sri Lanka look to be at a low ebb, judging by their performance against the West Indies.The_Mule_ said:Thank you to all who welcomed me.
...
Voted (and campaigned for) Leave as I was living in the UK then. Now an expat living and working in Sri Lanka (so looking forward(?) to England's tour here in October/November.
An England touring party is just the boost they need.0 -
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I doubt it because he really won't care.OldKingCole said:0 -
True.MaxPB said:
I doubt it because he really won't care.OldKingCole said:0 -
Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
Unless a majority of the Labour parliamentary party votes for EEA, Corbyn will ignore it and even then may press on regardlesstpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
The short answer is that the nation's divisions won't heal any time soon. Remainers aren't ready to play nice with people who they consider to have behaved appallingly and who are utterly unrepentant of their actions and Leavers aren't ready to acknowledge that they have done anything wrong at all.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Meanwhile, the country is stuck because Remainers are unable to take matters forward since they do not have control of the agenda and Leavers are unable to take matters forward because the prospectus they offered when they took control of the agenda was an entirely negative prospectus of xenophobic lies.
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Banks and Wigmore have got Damian Collins on the defensive now.0
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What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.0
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I expect the government are confident they have the numbers to defeat the meaningful vote amendmentScott_P said:0 -
Rottenborough just loves the rottenboroughs.rottenborough said:
Yeh, yeh, yaddy. I refer you to Edmund Burke.HYUFD said:
Indeed, Philip Lee's Bracknell constituency voted LeaveRichard_Tyndall said:
The national party should not be expelling MPs for voting with their principles. They should however answer to their local constituency parties.TheScreamingEagles said:
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.RoyalBlue said:
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.TheScreamingEagles said:
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?RoyalBlue said:
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!Philip_Thompson said:
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.RoyalBlue said:
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?Scott_P said:
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.0 -
Exactly what I thought. They are helping him look reasonable.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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Even though we are on the same side on the wisdom of Brexit I think this is facile, each side is a loose coalition of the contradictory, with no majority for absolutely any approach. Indeed it's far from clear that the PM speaks for all on the leave side with attacks from left and right,or that backing her is any more respecting the referendum than challenging her.AlastairMeeks said:
The short answer is that the nation's divisions won't heal any time soon. Remainers aren't ready to play nice with people who they consider to have behaved appallingly and who are utterly unrepentant of their actions and Leavers aren't ready to acknowledge that they have done anything wrong at all.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Meanwhile, the country is stuck because Remainers are unable to take matters forward since they do not have control of the agenda and Leavers are unable to take matters forward because the prospectus they offered when they took control of the agenda was an entirely negative prospectus of xenophobic lies.
One thing that has changed I think is that Brexit fans are solely relying on the June 2016 vote - in the fact of any evidence that this might not be a good idea, it's all about that the people have spoken and WHY ARE YOU AN ENEMY OF DEMOCRACY? Of course the real reason that they oppose a vote on the deal is that they have no confidence - if you can get 52% by calling for change, NHS funding, and global trade, how can you get a majority for any deal involving the Irish Border, losses to existing trade deals, and red tape on steroids? I do think we need that 2nd ref - the 1st just isn't settling anything, beyond us needing to achieve it's narrow mandate by leaving next March.
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If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
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There's a vote !0
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Like those who want to "crush the saboteurs", right?Richard_Tyndall said:concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.
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Caesar won and became Dictator of the Roman Empire. War is politics by other means: what use is marauding around Italy if it doesn't result in anything concrete?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Mule, keeping the war in Italy that long kept the possibility of victory alive.
And marauding around Italy without defeat or capture for a decade and a half was damned impressive.
Certainly more impressive than Caesar attacking Gergovia and running away, or doing likewise at Dyrrachium.0 -
Sounds like an excuse tbh.Scott_P said:0 -
Add in the grandstanding around a date for Cummings and they've blown their credibility.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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On a day when national newspapers are employing fascist tropes to bully MPs, probably not your best day to accuse Remainers of not wanting reconciliation but scorched earth.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
Select com in recess for a vote.. I'm not sure which though.0
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I posted as much at the same time as yours. But he's hardly the only example - anyone talking about people not backing the PM as enemies of democracy (for example the editors of the Sun, Express and Daily Mail and a fair few posters on this thread) deserve the same lack of respect.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
Yup - nailed it.AlastairMeeks said:
The short answer is that the nation's divisions won't heal any time soon. Remainers aren't ready to play nicetpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
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I really can’t improve on the comments of Canon Giles Fraser, in the Guardian, talking about a certain kind of Remainer.AlastairMeeks said:
The short answer is that the nation's divisions won't heal any time soon. Remainers aren't ready to play nice with people who they consider to have behaved appallingly and who are utterly unrepentant of their actions and Leavers aren't ready to acknowledge that they have done anything wrong at all.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Meanwhile, the country is stuck because Remainers are unable to take matters forward since they do not have control of the agenda and Leavers are unable to take matters forward because the prospectus they offered when they took control of the agenda was an entirely negative prospectus of xenophobic lies.
https://tinyurl.com/y8em3nfq
“No one likes a patronising smartarse.“0 -
Self-aggrandising twerps. The lot of them.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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12:57:00
Division
12:56:48
Consideration of Lords amendments: European Union (Withdrawal) Bill - Day 1
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And don't get me started on that Tyndall character...Richard_Tyndall said:
If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
+1MaxPB said:
Self-aggrandising twerps. The lot of them.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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Threatening him with 'contempt of Parliament' made me laugh. Do they really think that they can find 12 ordinary people for a jury who don't find Parliament contemptable?TGOHF said:
Add in the grandstanding around a date for Cummings and they've blown their credibility.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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Clueless twerps. I wouldn't say they were that good at self-aggrandising today. They let Arron Banks walk all over them.MaxPB said:
Self-aggrandising twerps. The lot of them.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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These are bleak times for those of us still in the liberal pro-market fiscally conservative but not obsessed with europe/gays party.....
Our numbers are dwindling all the time as former members take to the barricades.
I'm more worried about the English Ladies ODI batting in comparison to other events today.0 -
A fan tweets...
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/10065092510350049280 -
Brake speaking - has the GOv't been defeated ?0
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Those that could be bothered to turn up.MaxPB said:
Self-aggrandising twerps. The lot of them.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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They make the case very strongly on why negotiating Brexit via the members of the House would be an utterly stupid exercise.MaxPB said:
Self-aggrandising twerps. The lot of them.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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From BBC Live Blog:Pulpstar said:Brake speaking - has the GOv't been defeated ?
Posted at 13:13
Commons votes in favour of programme motion
EU Withdrawal Bill
House of Commons
Parliament
The Commons votes in favour of the government's programme motion for the bill.
Ayes: 321
Noes: 304
Majority: 17
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So it's OK for any witness called by a select committee to moon at them and say they won't appear?DeClare said:
Threatening him with 'contempt of Parliament' made me laugh. Do they really think that they can find 12 ordinary people for a jury who don't find Parliament contemptable?TGOHF said:
Add in the grandstanding around a date for Cummings and they've blown their credibility.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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And that is an entirely valid logical flow.Roger said:I heard a business woman from Northern Ireland on the radio saying that she voted for Brexit but her business is starting to suffer badly.
Did you anticipate the border problems? 'No I didn't. We didn't really think about it'
Would you now consider moving out of the country if things continue as they are? 'Yes I would. But It's a large family business so it would involve a lot of people who are all close'
Do you now regret voting Brexit? 'No. Not really'.
There's an Irish joke in there somewhere......
Where Remainers are continuing to fall down is they focus on economics.
Brexiteers prioritised politics (whether immigration or sovereignty) over economics0 -
He didn't though - he offered them a range of dates and they summoned him on another date.Purple said:
So it's OK for any witness called by a select committee to moon at them and say they won't appear?DeClare said:
Threatening him with 'contempt of Parliament' made me laugh. Do they really think that they can find 12 ordinary people for a jury who don't find Parliament contemptable?TGOHF said:
Add in the grandstanding around a date for Cummings and they've blown their credibility.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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If the issue is under legal proceedings then yes that is standard. The priority in this country is that legal proceedings happen first, Committees second. The Committee chairman is saying (with no legal backing that I've seen) that the normal legal procedures "don't apply in this instance" without explanation of why. The witness is saying "my lawyers say they do so I'll speak to you later".Purple said:
So it's OK for any witness called by a select committee to moon at them and say they won't appear?DeClare said:
Threatening him with 'contempt of Parliament' made me laugh. Do they really think that they can find 12 ordinary people for a jury who don't find Parliament contemptable?TGOHF said:
Add in the grandstanding around a date for Cummings and they've blown their credibility.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
Seems eminently reasonable to me.0 -
First win for May then but a long way to goPhilip_Thompson said:
From BBC Live Blog:Pulpstar said:Brake speaking - has the GOv't been defeated ?
Posted at 13:13
Commons votes in favour of programme motion
EU Withdrawal Bill
House of Commons
Parliament
The Commons votes in favour of the government's programme motion for the bill.
Ayes: 321
Noes: 304
Majority: 170 -
Intelligence has been falling in recent decades, starting with the cohort born in 1975:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dumb-and-dumber-why-we-re-getting-less-intelligent-80k3bl83v0 -
Trouble is you see fascists under every bed these days Alastair. One wonders how you can even bear to stay in a country so packed with racists, xenophobia and fascists. Then we remember you made your second home in Hungary.AlastairMeeks said:
On a day when national newspapers are employing fascist tropes to bully MPs, probably not your best day to accuse Remainers of not wanting reconciliation but scorched earth.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.
And newspapers have been calling out MPs for centuries. Yet another example of your selective outrage.0 -
well that explains the remain voteAndyJS said:Intelligence has been falling in recent decades, starting with the cohort born in 1975:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dumb-and-dumber-why-we-re-getting-less-intelligent-80k3bl83v0 -
Trouble is there may be - actually there certainly are - some serious questions for Banks to answer. But this committee apparently doesn't know what it should be asking.MaxPB said:
Self-aggrandising twerps. The lot of them.Richard_Nabavi said:What a total disgrace the Select Committee's question to Arron Banks are. They're managing the extraordinary feat of making him look a man of integrity and themselves a complete bunch of charlatans who are both stupid and vindictive, for example with their dumb-ass questions on his insurance companies - questions which would be monumentally irrelevant even if they weren't pig-ignorant.
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She is quite the patriot to sacrifice her business and her ability to live in the country to ensure those staying within the UK receive the benefits of Brexit.Charles said:
And that is an entirely valid logical flow.Roger said:I heard a business woman from Northern Ireland on the radio saying that she voted for Brexit but her business is starting to suffer badly.
Did you anticipate the border problems? 'No I didn't. We didn't really think about it'
Would you now consider moving out of the country if things continue as they are? 'Yes I would. But It's a large family business so it would involve a lot of people who are all close'
Do you now regret voting Brexit? 'No. Not really'.
There's an Irish joke in there somewhere......
Where Remainers are continuing to fall down is they focus on economics.
Brexiteers prioritised politics (whether immigration or sovereignty) over economics0 -
Brexiteers promised economic 'sunlit uplands' but in truth the only way to avoid economic damage is complete political vassalisation.Charles said:
And that is an entirely valid logical flow.Roger said:I heard a business woman from Northern Ireland on the radio saying that she voted for Brexit but her business is starting to suffer badly.
Did you anticipate the border problems? 'No I didn't. We didn't really think about it'
Would you now consider moving out of the country if things continue as they are? 'Yes I would. But It's a large family business so it would involve a lot of people who are all close'
Do you now regret voting Brexit? 'No. Not really'.
There's an Irish joke in there somewhere......
Where Remainers are continuing to fall down is they focus on economics.
Brexiteers prioritised politics (whether immigration or sovereignty) over economics0 -
321 + 304 =
Speaker + 3 deputies (4)
Presenter + secondary for both sides (4)
Sinn Fein's 7 (7)
Lewisham MP (1)
= 634
Tories ex Speaker = 316, DUP = 10 = 326 less Laing = 325
Teller + Secondary = 323
Two abstentions from the Gov't side ? (Or 3 + North Down ?)0 -
"We must be SAD, literally SAD, to spend so much time of our waking hours on PB.com!"0
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Make or Brake??Pulpstar said:Brake speaking - has the GOv't been defeated ?
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I'm trying to work out who is missing to make the Gov't 321. By my maths 323 (Or 324 if North Down votes with) "should" be the Gov't total.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Make or Brake??Pulpstar said:Brake speaking - has the GOv't been defeated ?
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Does that explain all those buying corbynonomics?AndyJS said:Intelligence has been falling in recent decades, starting with the cohort born in 1975:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dumb-and-dumber-why-we-re-getting-less-intelligent-80k3bl83v0 -
Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.0
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I would suggest banish them from the Kingdom but the way it's looking they would bump into more Leavers outside the UK than within it.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
Remarkable.... not. Although surprised there aren't more on both sides tbf.Pulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
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So leaving the country is an entirely valid response to the consequences of voting for Brexit?Charles said:
And that is an entirely valid logical flow.Roger said:I heard a business woman from Northern Ireland on the radio saying that she voted for Brexit but her business is starting to suffer badly.
Did you anticipate the border problems? 'No I didn't. We didn't really think about it'
Would you now consider moving out of the country if things continue as they are? 'Yes I would. But It's a large family business so it would involve a lot of people who are all close'
Do you now regret voting Brexit? 'No. Not really'.
There's an Irish joke in there somewhere......
Where Remainers are continuing to fall down is they focus on economics.
Brexiteers prioritised politics (whether immigration or sovereignty) over economics
Yes please.0 -
But immigrants have to become British citizens before they are allowed to vote at the national level. Most EU immigrants don't take up British citizenship unless there is another good reason to do so.ExiledInScotland said:Labour didn't care because it was voters for them, and the Tories didn't care because it was cheap labour for them."
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Seems a good swap - increases the average IQ on both sidesPulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
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Has Cummings cited advice from his own lawyers? I've seen him mention other people's.Philip_Thompson said:
If the issue is under legal proceedings then yes that is standard. The priority in this country is that legal proceedings happen first, Committees second. The Committee chairman is saying (with no legal backing that I've seen) that the normal legal procedures "don't apply in this instance" without explanation of why. The witness is saying "my lawyers say they do so I'll speak to you later".Purple said:
So it's OK for any witness called by a select committee to moon at them and say they won't appear?DeClare said:
Threatening him with 'contempt of Parliament' made me laugh. Do they really think that they can find 12 ordinary people for a jury who don't find Parliament contemptable?
Seems eminently reasonable to me.
DeClare's argument rested on the premise that almost everyone finds parliament contemptible. If that's a reason for a witness to refuse to obey a committee's summons to appear on pain of being held in contempt, why should it not apply to all witnesses? Any witness who refuses to appear will be similarly threatened.
At least Cummings's "some thoughts" document was shorter than Anders Breivik's "manifesto".
My favourite line was "Universities should develop alternatives to Politics, Philosophy, and Economics such as Ancient and Modern History, Physics for Future Presidents, and Programming."
Both Cummings and Breivik favour the image of "gates". In his most recent email to the committee, Cummings wrote as follows."So far you guys have botched things on an epic scale but it’s hard to break into the Westminster system — you rig the rules to stop competition. Vote Leave 1 needed Cameron’s help to hack the system. If you guys want to run with Adonis and create another wave, be careful what you wish for. ‘Unda fert nec regitur’ and VL2 would ride that wave right at the gates of Westminster."
IMO David Cameron's two-word description of Cummings was accurate.
"A second referendum would be bad for the country and I hope it doesn’t happen but if you force the issue, then Vote Leave 2 would try to create out of the smoking wreck in SW1 something that can deliver what the public wants. Imagine Amazon-style obsession on customer satisfaction (not competitor and media obsession which is what you guys know) with Silicon Valley technology/scaling and Mueller-style ‘systems politics’ combined with the wave upon wave of emotion you will have created. Here’s some free political advice: when someone’s inside your OODA loop, it feels to them like you are working for them. If you go for a rematch, then this is what you will be doing for people like me. 350m would just be the starter."0 -
Tories (316) + DUP (10) less Laing less two tellers less proposer + seconder =Scrapheap_as_was said:
Remarkable.... not. Although surprised there aren't more on both sides tbf.Pulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
316 + 10 - 1- 2- 1 -1 = 321 ?0 -
I'm not a fan of Trump but that's great strategic thinking by the President!williamglenn said:
If the North Koreans can think there's more money to be made by being a tourist hotspot than a pariah state then the chances of lasting peace become far more likely.0 -
Yes. Repeatedly.Purple said:
Has Cummings cited advice from his own lawyers?Philip_Thompson said:
If the issue is under legal proceedings then yes that is standard. The priority in this country is that legal proceedings happen first, Committees second. The Committee chairman is saying (with no legal backing that I've seen) that the normal legal procedures "don't apply in this instance" without explanation of why. The witness is saying "my lawyers say they do so I'll speak to you later".Purple said:
So it's OK for any witness called by a select committee to moon at them and say they won't appear?DeClare said:
Threatening him with 'contempt of Parliament' made me laugh. Do they really think that they can find 12 ordinary people for a jury who don't find Parliament contemptable?
Seems eminently reasonable to me.
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Nope. Your punishment is purely self inflicted. We just look on in wry amusement.TOPPING said:
I would suggest banish them from the Kingdom but the way it's looking they would bump into more Leavers outside the UK than within it.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
No banishment needed, Probably got second homes anyway .TOPPING said:
I would suggest banish them from the Kingdom but the way it's looking they would bump into more Leavers outside the UK than within it.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you want to know why there can be no reconciliation look at the fatuous ignorant posting by Meeks. He doesn't want reconciliation he wants a scorched earth policy. The only thing that can be done with people like that is to leave them in the desert of their own making and concentrate on those who are more reasonable and more mentally stable.tpfkar said:Bit of a bad-tempered thread today sadly. How do we heal the divisions in the country given that we can't even stop arguing here?
Key question about Dr Lee's resignation for me is whether the Government knew it was coming? They were briefing that the numbers were 'dicey' beforehand - was that assuming Phillip Lee was safely theirs? Will surely embolden the rebels now. My reading is that the Government will survive on customs thanks to the fudge - but lose the Trade Bill amendment unless they can get an agreement with the EU before that vote - lose the meaningful vote amendment, but then win all the other amendments.
If so, the size of the Labour EEA rebellion may well dictate whether there is serious movement in that direction within the Labour party, feels they are getting there little by little.0 -
I think it is mathematically impossible for both sides to increase their mean IQ.PeterMannion said:
Seems a good swap - increases the average IQ on both sidesPulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
You are promoted to Chief Economic Advisor to the Government, please pick up your 250k salary.0 -
Where does he do it in his correspondence with the committee? (That file starts with the communication in which they asked him to attend.)Philip_Thompson said:
Yes. Repeatedly.Purple said:
Has Cummings cited advice from his own lawyers?Philip_Thompson said:
If the issue is under legal proceedings then yes that is standard. The priority in this country is that legal proceedings happen first, Committees second. The Committee chairman is saying (with no legal backing that I've seen) that the normal legal procedures "don't apply in this instance" without explanation of why. The witness is saying "my lawyers say they do so I'll speak to you later".Purple said:
So it's OK for any witness called by a select committee to moon at them and say they won't appear?DeClare said:
Threatening him with 'contempt of Parliament' made me laugh. Do they really think that they can find 12 ordinary people for a jury who don't find Parliament contemptable?
Seems eminently reasonable to me.
He writes "I have been told by multiple teams of lawyers for different parties that I must keep my trap shut."
He writes "I shortly have to speak to different agencies (EC/ICO etc) and different parties to different legal actions and their lawyers. I am sending documents to the EC/ICO in a fortnight or so. I will let you know when lawyers suggest I could usefully give evidence to you without prejudicing other actions."
But when did he tell the committee that his own lawyers have advised him that as per normal procedures he should not appear before them at the moment?0 -
That's genius! A whole shoreline of Trump Towers.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm not a fan of Trump but that's great strategic thinking by the President!williamglenn said:
If the North Koreans can think there's more money to be made by being a tourist hotspot than a pariah state then the chances of lasting peace become far more likely.
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Trump feels even more inferior than he usually does when he thinks of the 105 Building in Pyongyang (which is a hotel).Philip_Thompson said:
I'm not a fan of Trump but that's great strategic thinking by the President!williamglenn said:
If the North Koreans can think there's more money to be made by being a tourist hotspot than a pariah state then the chances of lasting peace become far more likely.
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It is possible.YBarddCwsc said:
I think it is mathematically impossible for both sides to increase their mean IQ.PeterMannion said:
Seems a good swap - increases the average IQ on both sidesPulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
You are promoted to Chief Economic Advisor to the Government, please pick up your 250k salary.0 -
0
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It isn't mathematically impossible - that's the point of the joke.YBarddCwsc said:
I think it is mathematically impossible for both sides to increase their mean IQ.PeterMannion said:
Seems a good swap - increases the average IQ on both sidesPulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
You are promoted to Chief Economic Advisor to the Government, please pick up your 250k salary.
Side A average IQ 90, side B average IQ 110.
Swap a person with IQ 120 from side A with a person of IQ 100 from side B and both sides increase their mean IQ.0 -
Side A's mean IQ has decreased. It's lost someone with an IQ of 120 and gained someone with an IQ of 100.Barnesian said:
It isn't mathematically impossible - that's the point of the joke.YBarddCwsc said:
I think it is mathematically impossible for both sides to increase their mean IQ.PeterMannion said:
Seems a good swap - increases the average IQ on both sidesPulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
You are promoted to Chief Economic Advisor to the Government, please pick up your 250k salary.
Side A average IQ 90, side B average IQ 110.
Swap a person with IQ 120 from side A with a person of IQ 100 from side B and both sides increase their mean IQ.0 -
No Side A's mean has gone down in your example.Barnesian said:
It isn't mathematically impossible - that's the point of the joke.YBarddCwsc said:
I think it is mathematically impossible for both sides to increase their mean IQ.PeterMannion said:
Seems a good swap - increases the average IQ on both sidesPulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
You are promoted to Chief Economic Advisor to the Government, please pick up your 250k salary.
Side A average IQ 90, side B average IQ 110.
Swap a person with IQ 120 from side A with a person of IQ 100 from side B and both sides increase their mean IQ.
The point of the joke is with one person changing not a swap.
Side A average IQ 90, side B average IQ 110.
Person with IQ 100 moves from B to A - both sides increase their mean IQ.0 -
No, side A's IQ decreases by 20/A(n) (Where A(n) is the population of side A), and side B's IQ increases by 20/B(n) (Where B(n) is the population of side B )Barnesian said:
It isn't mathematically impossible - that's the point of the joke.YBarddCwsc said:
I think it is mathematically impossible for both sides to increase their mean IQ.PeterMannion said:
Seems a good swap - increases the average IQ on both sidesPulpstar said:Conservatives Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke voted against the programme motion; Labour's Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted with the government.
You are promoted to Chief Economic Advisor to the Government, please pick up your 250k salary.
Side A average IQ 90, side B average IQ 110.
Swap a person with IQ 120 from side A with a person of IQ 100 from side B and both sides increase their mean IQ.0 -
This is more like it - raising people's maths skills on PB... the mode for both could rise though (I think)0
