politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If TMay and Corbyn are still there at the next election then W

Richard_Nabavi said:

Nigelb said:

I would have thought such Mailesque rhetoric beneath you, Richard.

If the Windrush case has not demonstrated that undocumented is not equivalent to "shouldn't be here", then have not the tens of thousands of immigration appeals, a very large percentage of which have been won by the appellants (after delays averaging a year) ?

The policy was Windrush on steroids.

I don't disagree with your main sentiment, the delays and bureaucracy are appalling.

As an aside I've never been very impressed by the argument that a large percentage of appeals are won, in any context. You'd always expect a large percentage of appeals to be won, given that only those with a good case are likely to appeal in the first place, unless it's extremely easy and cheap to appeal (which it isn't)....

Looking at the relative numbers of deportations and appeals, it's quite clear that explanation does not hold water.


https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2018-01-17/123516/
The number of appeals allowed in the First-tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) over the last three years is: 2014/2015 – 26,394; 2015/2016 – 20,539 and 2016/2017 – 23,275.

Around 50% were successful, I believe.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2017/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned
The total number of enforced returns from the UK, including those not directly from detention, decreased by 4% to 12,666 in the year ending March 2017 compared with 13,248 in the previous year. This includes 10,969 enforced removals and 1,697 other returns from detention. In the same period, there were 24,786 voluntary returns (excluding returns from detention)….

felix said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

Probably in response to his proposed measures to remove child migrants from France with draconian new laws.

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/986496642944815104?s=20

The_Apocalypse said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

Well that’s just gone and blown away the moment that people here (and in Twitter) were getting so excited about.

Of course it hasn't. Labour can't have it both ways, claiming that the minister is responsible if was Theresa May, but not if it was a Labour minister.

Richard_Nabavi said:

The_Apocalypse said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

Well that’s just gone and blown away the moment that people here (and in Twitter) were getting so excited about.

Of course it hasn't. Labour can't have it both ways, claiming that the minister is responsible if was Theresa May, but not if it was a Labour minister.

See my response to WhiteRabbit.

The PM's words were '...unfortunate confusion and anxiety ...'

That's a slight understatement for those who were illegally sacked, denied benefits and/or forcibly detained pending deportation.

At times like this I wish ministers were personally liable for decisions made going apparently beyond what the law allows. Company directors and elected local councillors are legally responsible.

'Creating a hostile environment' is completely the wrong language for government to use. Only a 'nasty party' gets into that field.

Corbyn wasted time by asking when the decision to destroy the documents was taken clearly not seeing the own goal coming. Who the f*** is advising him on the right questions to ask?

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

So did Theresa May mislead Parliament?

She misled pb, which is worse!

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

36% is only a few percent more than Le Pen got

This isn't in a two horse race:

https://twitter.com/Troszczynski_FN/status/986572936713789440

Looks like it will be between Le Pen and Melenchon at the moment as to who faces Macron in that run off

The_Apocalypse said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

The_Apocalypse said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

Well that’s just gone and blown away the moment that people here (and in Twitter) were getting so excited about.

No, it doesn't. It was Corbyn's claim that the Home Office, May's Home Office, was responsible.

It does because the whole excitment arose from the belief that it was a Labour government that took the decision.

No, it was because it was taken under the Labour government. Corbyn was trying to blame Theresa May (wrongly even if it had been when she was Home Sec), and rightly has been demolished.

oxfordsimon said:

No. The decision was taken when Labour was in power. That is all that was said.

Aha, the crucial element. @Thescreamingeagles sounds like May has indeed played this one well and NOT misled parliament.

oxfordsimon said:

The_Apocalypse said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

Well that’s just gone and blown away the moment that people here (and in Twitter) were getting so excited about.

No. The decision was taken when Labour was in power. That is all that was said.

Neither May nor Rudd can be held accountable for decisions taken whilst Labour was in charge.

The facts are clear. The decision to destroy the cards was taken in 2009. Labour was running things then.

They can be held accountable for all the mess ups that did take place under their watch though.

The facts are clear (from the tweet posted above) that it wasn’t the Labour government was who took the decision. Which was the impression given in PMQs.

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

So did Theresa May mislead Parliament?

No. She said the decision was taken under a Labour government, not by a Labour government.

Link to exact response..

https://order-order.com/2018/04/18/may-labour-took-decision-destroy-windrush-landing-cards-2009/

Jezza asked was May herself when home secretary who signed this off, May said "the decision was taken in 2009 UNDER A LABOUR GOVERNMENT".

She didn't say it was Labour home office minister etc.

The_Apocalypse said:

MarqueeMark said:

Corbyn and heavy-calibre weaponry really don't mix, especially in the feet area....

Somebody in Labour thought Windrush was the whizzo-wheeze distraction from Syria/anti-semitism. But they were not playing the game six moves ahead....

I don’t think Windrush can be described as a distraction given how serious the story is. Although given how many on this site aren’t happy with the amount of coverage antisemitism has received it looks like they do believe the government’s problems on Windrush has limited the attention given to Labour.

Windrush is a mess being dealt with. The PM has shown a determination to fess up for the cock-up - and to ensure that the situation is remedied so that nobody has to endure the hurt further. Even though part of the SNAFU is down to the previous Labour Govt. It was a 24 hour cause celebre for the Left until it all got a bit, well, embarrassing when their hand was at the tiller.

Contrast with the ongoing anti-semitism mess, that is not being dealt with. The Leader of the Opposition - a man who has made a career of cheering on injustice and inequality - has shown a determination NOT to fess up for something far, far more grave than a cock-up.

Somebody high up in Labour saw the anti-semitism debate coming down the pike and looked around for a distraction. That they would do that with Windrush - a matter as serious as you concede it is - shows at best a degree of professional cynicism in doing their job.

AlastairMeeks said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

36% is only a few percent more than Le Pen got

This isn't in a two horse race:

https://twitter.com/Troszczynski_FN/status/986572936713789440

Hamon 7% and Wauquiez 8%!

Far right 23% and 6% far left 16.5%!

That leapt out at me too. The traditional left and right have been obliterated.

I feel like one is dead and gone and En Marche! will be half a two party state with one of the others.. the question is which one...

The_Apocalypse said:

Corbyn should have been corrected with the info provided in the clarification.

May's answer and the clarification are completely homogeneous.

CarlottaVance said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

So did Theresa May mislead Parliament?

No. She said the decision was taken under a Labour government, not by a Labour government.

TSE's slipping...

The_Apocalypse said:

If that was the case we wouldn’t have needed the clarification. Corbyn should have been corrected with the info provided in the clarification.

Nonsense. May was asked a question by him, she answered it. She didn't say a Labour minister took the decision, and frankly no-one with an ounce of knowledge of government would ever have thought the Home Sec would take a decision like that on a minor operational matter within the semi-autonomous UKBA.

Corbyn's attack was stupid, and would have been even if the decision had been taken under the coalition. He deserves all the ridicule he's getting.

Richard_Tyndall said:

I don't agree that the Tories are staid and old any more or less than Labour. But in both cases their leaderships and cabinets are - with a few honourable exceptions- inept second raters who would struggle with a junior ministerial position let alone high office.

We will see no improvement in our politics until the majority of these people are removed and replaced in both government and opposition by people who not only have vision but the ability to actually get stuff done without perpetual cockups.

But here's the thing: who would want to be a politician?

Nigelb said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

Probably in response to his proposed measures to remove child migrants from France with draconian new laws.

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/986496642944815104?s=20

I refer you to TSE's regular comments on taking France as any kind of standard...

Absolutely. We should always aspire to be better than France.

Barnesian said:

rottenborough said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Tissue_Price said:

bigjohnowls said:

Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!

Jeremy Corbyn
‏
Verified account

@jeremycorbyn
54m54 minutes ago
More
I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.

There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.

18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.

In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.

I think, for the public, the apology works.

But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.

The cult aren't happy,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5628845/Labour-MPs-suffer-wave-online-abuse-speaking-anti-Semitism.html

Dissent will not be tolerated.

This is the scum who Labour have allowed into their ranks on a £3 trip.

Are these the Tory "scum" who paid £3 to become members to vote for Corbyn because they thought it would harm the Labour party?

I suspect that some of the abuse of Jewish Labour MPs on social media are from Tories pretending to be Labour members in order to increase damage. Why do I think that? Track record. It's the Tory way.

Nice smear

You are another one who refuses to face facts

MarqueeMark said:

The_Apocalypse said:

MarqueeMark said:

Corbyn and heavy-calibre weaponry really don't mix, especially in the feet area....

Somebody in Labour thought Windrush was the whizzo-wheeze distraction from Syria/anti-semitism. But they were not playing the game six moves ahead....

I don’t think Windrush can be described as a distraction given how serious the story is. Although given how many on this site aren’t happy with the amount of coverage antisemitism has received it looks like they do believe the government’s problems on Windrush has limited the attention given to Labour.

Windrush is a mess being dealt with. The PM has shown a determination to fess up for the cock-up - and to ensure that the situation is remedied so that nobody has to endure the hurt further. Even though part of the SNAFU is down to the previous Labour Govt. It was a 24 hour cause celebre for the Left until it all got a bit, well, embarrassing when their hand was at the tiller.

Contrast with the ongoing anti-semitism mess, that is not being dealt with. The Leader of the Opposition - a man who has made a career of cheering on injustice and inequality - has shown a determination NOT to fess up for something far, far more grave than a cock-up.

Somebody high up in Labour saw the anti-semitism debate coming down the pike and looked around for a distraction. That they would do that with Windrush - a matter as serious as you concede it is - shows at best a degree of professional cynicism in doing their job.

Shown determination? She recused a meeting with leaders on Sunday and only caved into pressure on that when the Daily Mail and The Sun got involved. As she as PM and this happened under her watch, with many reports suggesting that the hostile environment policy is to blame for much of this, we need to see action from a May before we start praising her. If anything given it’s a problem that looks to be self created praise would be odd. It would be like praising Corbyn for dealing with antisemitism.

You think the Left are celebrating this? You’d lose your mind if anyone accused the Right of celebrating the anti semitism scandal. I don’t see how it’s become embarrassing for them as we’ve found out that the decision wasn’t take by the Labour government. Unless you think that the story won’t be able how this happened under this government’s watch, particularly in relation to the hostile environment policy. I’d say that is wishful thinking.

I agree that Corbyn’s not dealing with anti semitism. But Corbyn discussing the Windrush issue is what you’d expect of an opposition, not part of some evil plot to distract from anti semitism.

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

I don't think that Conservative supporters on here have appreciated just how powerfully the Windrush affair is reinforcing all the stereotypes younger voters have about them being appalling old heartless racists. At some point the Conservatives are going to want to start making inroads into those voters. That opportunity, already not exactly glistening after Brexit, has probably been further deferred as a consequence.

This matter has legs depending on how the question of EU citizens’ rights are handled.

Both my parents came to this country rather than being born here. After their deaths when I was sorting their papers I found nothing which would have told me when they first came into the country let alone the legal basis for their continued residence. I can well imagine how frightening it must be for elderly people from the West Indies suddenly being asked to produce documents they don’t have under pain of deportation.

If a similarly heartless and incompetent approach is adopted to EU citizens, then this could affect a large number of people.

If it is not to be a continuing sore, the government needs to:-

1. get a grip on the Windrush issue;
2. sort it;
3. pay generous compensation quickly to anyone affected;
4. review the rules for the future and change where appropriate after proper consultation; and
5. reach an agreement on the future of EU citizens which does not lead to similar problems in future.

Well said

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

36% is only a few percent more than Le Pen got

This isn't in a two horse race:

https://twitter.com/Troszczynski_FN/status/986572936713789440

Looks like it will be between Le Pen and Melenchon at the moment as to who faces Macron in that run off

It's quite possible that the runoff will be between Le Pen & Melenchon, if Macron loses popularity. There's a lot to be said for the traditional broad-church left & right...

Roger said:

There is the distinct sense on this board that after many months on the back foot the multitudes of Tories have finally found a chink in the Messiah's armour. I can only see a chimera. Anti Semitism doesn't resonate because people don't believe the left are racist. Had it been the Tories facing these accusations whether true or imagined it would have made a difference.

Not quite as vile as your post about the rape victim yesterday but on the way

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Fantastic summary on the Graun, bringing together various reactions.

https://theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/apr/18/pmqs-may-corbyn-eu-withdrawal-bill-lords-ministers-face-questioning-by-peers-over-brexit-meaningful-vote-politics-live

@TheJezziah et al - look away now.

This one nails it:

https://twitter.com/singharj/status/986562674338271232

Wasn't there a WC qualifier a few years ago where due to a flaw in the way in which teams tied on points were going to be ranked, they had two teams who spent the last 10-15 mins of the match desperately trying to score in their own goals?

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

The_Apocalypse said:

If that was the case we wouldn’t have needed the clarification. Corbyn should have been corrected with the info provided in the clarification.

Nonsense. May was asked a question by him, she answered it. She didn't say a Labour minister took the decision, and frankly no-one with an ounce of knowledge of government would ever have thought the Home Sec would take a decision like that on a minor operational matter within the semi-autonomous UKBA.

Corbyn's attack was stupid, and would have been even if the decision had been taken under the coalition. He deserves all the ridicule he's getting.

It’s not nonsense. If it was the case that no one with an ‘ounce of knowledge’ would have thought it was taken by the government then we wouldn’t have needed the clarification, because, well it would have been obvious.

I expect someone asked.

oxfordsimon said:

The_Apocalypse said:

oxfordsimon said:

The_Apocalypse said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

Well that’s just gone and blown away the moment that people here (and in Twitter) were getting so excited about.

No. The decision was taken when Labour was in power. That is all that was said.

Neither May nor Rudd can be held accountable for decisions taken whilst Labour was in charge.

The facts are clear. The decision to destroy the cards was taken in 2009. Labour was running things then.

They can be held accountable for all the mess ups that did take place under their watch though.

The facts are clear (from the tweet posted above) that it wasn’t the Labour government was who took the decision. Which was the impression given in PMQs.

Labour was in government in 2009 when the decision was taken. The language used in PMQs was clear and precise. Labour is responsible for decisions taken whilst it was in power there is no way round that unless you can prove that relevant ministers tried to prevent it and were thwarted by their dastardly officials.

The government is responsible for a decision it didn’t take? If the language was so precise and clear, I ask why the need for the clarification?

@Pulpstar Then why the need for the clarification?

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

Probably in response to his proposed measures to remove child migrants from France with draconian new laws.

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/986496642944815104?s=20

Which Meeks is studiously ignoring.

I'll take the implied compliment that my opinion matters, but I'm not in the habit of giving a running commentary on every single passing news story, especially ones I haven't read up on.

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Ahem.

https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/986576674056753153?s=21

I know, worrying news on the housing front for the capital.

I think you mean fantastic news for the capital on housing.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Who says Corbyn is as thick as mince?

Doh! Jeremy Corbyn!!!

TheScreamingEagles said:

Tissue_Price said:

rcs1000 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

I don't agree that the Tories are staid and old any more or less than Labour. But in both cases their leaderships and cabinets are - with a few honourable exceptions- inept second raters who would struggle with a junior ministerial position let alone high office.

We will see no improvement in our politics until the majority of these people are removed and replaced in both government and opposition by people who not only have vision but the ability to actually get stuff done without perpetual cockups.

But here's the thing: who would want to be a politician?

Hello.

When you become PM can I be your Downing Street Chief of Staff?

If I follow Ed Llewelyn’s career path then my job after that will be Ambassador to France.

Can you think of anyone more suited to be Ambassador to France than me?

Maybe I'll appoint my dad. He's kept plenty of vineyards in business.

Cyclefree said:

Barnesian said:

rottenborough said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Tissue_Price said:

bigjohnowls said:

Presume PB Tories will assume he can just type with his fingers crossed!!

Jeremy Corbyn
‏
Verified account

@jeremycorbyn
54m54 minutes ago
More
I pay tribute to MPs who spoke in yesterday's antisemitism debate, whose harrowing experiences remind us of the urgent need to eradicate antisemitism from politics and society.

There is no excuse for abuse of any kind, and I want to thank them for their bravery in speaking out.

18 hours later? That's a calculated insult, not a statement.

In any case the problem isn't that he doesn't come out with words condemning anti-semitism, it's that he doesn't actually do anything about it, and seems rather close to some very unpleasant embodiments of it.

I think, for the public, the apology works.

But for his colleagues - flesh and blood people - then he looks callous.

The cult aren't happy,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5628845/Labour-MPs-suffer-wave-online-abuse-speaking-anti-Semitism.html

Dissent will not be tolerated.

This is the scum who Labour have allowed into their ranks on a £3 trip.

Are these the Tory "scum" who paid £3 to become members to vote for Corbyn because they thought it would harm the Labour party?

I suspect that some of the abuse of Jewish Labour MPs on social media are from Tories pretending to be Labour members in order to increase damage. Why do I think that? Track record. It's the Tory way.

Any evidence for that last statement? Because it seems to fly in the face of the facts we do have and to be a nasty smear, to boot.

I explained why I think that. It's the same reasoning we apply to Salisbury and Russia.

Capability tick
Motivation tick
Track Record tick

Blaming the Russians for Salisbury does not fly in the face of facts and is not a nasty smear. Neither is this.

https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/986583417847508992?s=21

TheScreamingEagles said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

So did Theresa May mislead Parliament?

Not really. It was a very clever put down of Corbyn, however it was also an incredibly smug riposte under the depressing circumstances of the Windrush generation issue.

Kicking Corbyn is normally good value, I believe this time, in order to get a cheap laugh at Corbyn's expense she kicked the Windrush 'illegals'... again!

Pulpstar said:

The_Apocalypse said:

oxfordsimon said:

The_Apocalypse said:

oxfordsimon said:

The_Apocalypse said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

rottenborough said:

Jezza's case completely in tatters.

Did they not check this in his back office?

Probably not on speaking terms with the relevant ministers at the time.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/986566153941106688?s=20

The relevant Home Secretaries in 2009 were Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/986576473489334274

Well that’s just gone and blown away the moment that people here (and in Twitter) were getting so excited about.

No. The decision was taken when Labour was in power. That is all that was said.

Neither May nor Rudd can be held accountable for decisions taken whilst Labour was in charge.

The facts are clear. The decision to destroy the cards was taken in 2009. Labour was running things then.

They can be held accountable for all the mess ups that did take place under their watch though.

The facts are clear (from the tweet posted above) that it wasn’t the Labour government was who took the decision. Which was the impression given in PMQs.

Labour was in government in 2009 when the decision was taken. The language used in PMQs was clear and precise. Labour is responsible for decisions taken whilst it was in power there is no way round that unless you can prove that relevant ministers tried to prevent it and were thwarted by their dastardly officials.

The government is responsible for a decision it didn’t take? If the language was so precise and clear, I ask why the need for the clarification?

@Pulpstar Then why the need for the clarification?

Because PMQs is a rowdy affair where things might be misinterpreted, and people are trying to trip each other up. So the matter is clarified thereafter - but It is not May's job to explain every last word to Corbyn at PMQs. He needs to listen to the exact words she uses, then respond with appropriate questions and follow ups.

So because PMQs is rowdy, we need clarifications. So clearly the information given by May needed further clarifications.

Re your second point it’s not her job to do that for Corbyn - I’m not interested in May educating him. But the public - especially those effected by Windrush issue - should know.

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/986585693089681409?s=21

In which case, why has someone been briefing “2010”?

The_Apocalypse said:

So because PMQs is rowdy, we need clarifications. So clearly the information given by May needed further clarifications.

Re your second point it’s not her job to do that for Corbyn - I’m not interested in May educating him. But the public - especially those effected by Windrush issue - should know.

Listen - I'm no Maybot, but she seems to have been careful in her choice of language at PMQs today and mde Corbyn's question and whole line of attack look a bit silly.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/dpjhodges/status/986585693089681409?s=21

In which case, why has someone been briefing “2010”?

Because it shifts blame?

Simples

Pulpstar said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Ahem.

https://twitter.com/george_osborne/status/986576674056753153?s=21

I know, worrying news on the housing front for the capital.

I think you mean fantastic news for the capital on housing.

Depends if you're looking to buy, or have just bought (particularly one of those H2B new flats with the Greenfell cladding...) !

-7.9% (Tower Hamlets) is not good for society as a while, but ~0% growth in nominal terms is good for pretty much everyone. No windfall for homeowners but no negative equity trap either.

steve_garner said:

AlastairMeeks said:

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

Probably in response to his proposed measures to remove child migrants from France with draconian new laws.

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/986496642944815104?s=20

Which Meeks is studiously ignoring.

I'll take the implied compliment that my opinion matters, but I'm not in the habit of giving a running commentary on every single passing news story, especially ones I haven't read up on.

You mean especially ones that don't fit your narrative.

So far as I have a narrative (I don't), it certainly does not exclude the idea that other European countries, like Britain, are becoming degraded in their public policy debates.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

Probably in response to his proposed measures to remove child migrants from France with draconian new laws.

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/986496642944815104?s=20

I refer you to TSE's regular comments on taking France as any kind of standard...

Absolutely. We should always aspire to be better than France.

Is that your ambassadorial message ?

TheWhiteRabbit said:

-7.9% (Tower Hamlets) is not good for society as a while, but ~0% growth in nominal terms is good for pretty much everyone. No windfall for homeowners but no negative equity trap either.

Flat nominal houseprices are probably the optimum for the whole of the UK, as wage inflation returns affordability - but householders don't fall into either negative equity (or higher implied LTV than the previous remortgage).

AlastairMeeks said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

AlastairMeeks said:

felix said:

CarlottaVance said:

felix said:

AlastairMeeks said:

A French opinion poll which probably won't otherwise get any coverage on pb:

https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/986562330677923840

Probably in response to his proposed measures to remove child migrants from France with draconian new laws.

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/986496642944815104?s=20

Which Meeks is studiously ignoring.

I'll take the implied compliment that my opinion matters, but I'm not in the habit of giving a running commentary on every single passing news story, especially ones I haven't read up on.

Is it because it's not about Brexit?

My last five thread headers have been about (in reverse order):

1) The prospects in the local elections
2) The decline of Britain's coastal towns
3) The Hungarian elections
4) Future employment in an AI world
5) The individual constituency swings in the 2017 general election

I might, however, return to Brexit in the near future. I know how eagerly those threads are awaited.

Weighed against that, your last five thousand posts have been about the xenophobia of Brexit.....

Russia continues to double down

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5629315/Boris-Berezovsky-killed-decided-return-Russia-Moscow-prosecutor.html

Well we need it clarifying when the decision was taken and when the destruction began because there is all kinds of confusion on this issue today.

The_Apocalypse said:

Well we need it clarifying when the decision was taken and when the destruction began because there is all kinds of confusion on this issue today.

Only in your mind.