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Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:Sandpit said:
Yes, that was big news in the region last week. Potentially one of the biggest fields in the world - but it’s going to be difficult and expensive to extract, and is probably several years away.Nigelb said:
I see Bahrain just acquired strategic significance...Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bahrain-announces-huge-shale-oil-discovery-off-its-coast-2018-04-05
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.0 -
@TheJezziah
The point is whether you accept my premise or not, whether she was risking being deselected over other matters or not, as matters stand we have an MP being threatened with deselection prima facie for attending a protest against racism.
I accept your statement that if my premise is correct you consider what is happening to be wrong. In fact, from your posting history and our previous discussions I would have expected nothing less from you. But do you not think as matters stand this looks very bad?0 -
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You see what a mess you are in. Any MP who went on the demo and gets de-selected leaves the party open to the charge that it is kicking out those opposed to Jew hate racisim.TheJezziah said:@ydoethur
Sorry wasn't intentional skipping of the question. The problem is I don't accept the premise, if she gets deselected, she likely would have been deselected regardless of the protest. Also I don't accept the idea the protest was just anti racism, clearly part of it was to do with Corbyn and his leadership of the Labour party. Edit: Obviously with the idea being a link between racism and Corbyn's leadership in some way.
If she got deselected (or any of the other things) purely for going on this protest that would be wrong even if the protest wasn't just anti racism but obviously even more so if it was.
@Ishmael_Z
If you could point to where I said that?0 -
Interestingly, Britain has just opened a new Royal Navy station in Bahrain, Prince Andrew cut the ribbon yesterday. Did this even make the news in the UK?Sandpit said:
Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:Sandpit said:
Yes, that was big news in the region last week. Potentially one of the biggest fields in the world - but it’s going to be difficult and expensive to extract, and is probably several years away.Nigelb said:
I see Bahrain just acquired strategic significance...Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bahrain-announces-huge-shale-oil-discovery-off-its-coast-2018-04-05
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.
https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/britain-s-new-navy-base-marks-stronger-ties-with-its-gulf-allies-1.7191340 -
Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?0
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I understand - it's more their breathtaking cynicism in claiming the right to cripple anyone else's development, up to an including waging war, should it pose any serious competition to their economic interests.Sandpit said:
Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:Sandpit said:
Yes, that was big news in the region last week. Potentially one of the biggest fields in the world - but it’s going to be difficult and expensive to extract, and is probably several years away.Nigelb said:
I see Bahrain just acquired strategic significance...Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bahrain-announces-huge-shale-oil-discovery-off-its-coast-2018-04-05
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.
If that is not a form of imperialism, I'm not sure what is.0 -
But not in Johnny Mercer’s seat. His majority went up 400%.Danny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
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Heard nowt. Considering the coverage withdrawing from east of Suez got in the first place, its remarkable the silence on this:Sandpit said:
Interestingly, Britain has just opened a new Royal Navy station in Bahrain, Prince Andrew cut the ribbon yesterday. Did this even make the news in the UK?Sandpit said:
Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:Sandpit said:
Yes, that was big news in the region last week. Potentially one of the biggest fields in the world - but it’s going to be difficult and expensive to extract, and is probably several years away.Nigelb said:
I see Bahrain just acquired strategic significance...Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bahrain-announces-huge-shale-oil-discovery-off-its-coast-2018-04-05
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.
https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/britain-s-new-navy-base-marks-stronger-ties-with-its-gulf-allies-1.719134
Britain’s decision to establish its new Royal Navy base in Bahrain – the senior service’s largest operational base outside the UK.0 -
What happened to the edit function ?0
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Vanilla gremlin.Nigelb said:What happened to the edit function ?
It is still there just hidden.
Just move your cursor to where it should be and it’ll appear.0 -
F1: rather fuzzy from Liberty today. Basically, more overtaking, a cost cap, and more meritocratic distribution of funds.
But not much detail.
First practice starts in just over 20 minutes.
Edited extra bits: Mr. B, the Vanilla icons only enter UK internet via the customs union, so they're being phased out.0 -
For those of us who took the tip from Mr Meeks on Brexit date , just checked and the price has fallen to 1.62/1.63 on betfair.
Time to start thinking about cashing out?0 -
It dropped last week briefly to 1.54 then back up to 1.74. I did a healthy trade on those numbers, but overall I would not be comfortable backing below 1.50.rkrkrk said:For those of us who took the tip from Mr Meeks on Brexit date , just checked and the price has fallen to 1.62/1.63 on betfair.
Time to start thinking about cashing out?
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It has always bugged me when people equate what the likes of Google do with Facebook. It's a very different approach to business. I'm fairly comfortable with using Google — now admittedly I probably know a lot more than the average user about what Google is doing with my information and how to limit it — but I would never create a Facebook account.Nigelb said:On the Facebook brouhaha, I though this a good article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2018/04/googles-one-time-chief-technology-advocate-on-making-facebook-likable/557378/
So, how might FB fix itself? What might government regulators seek? What could make FaceBook likeable? It is very simple. There are just two choices:
a. FB stays in its send-your-PII-to-their-customers business, and then must be regulated and the customers validated precisely as AXCIOM and EXPERIAN in the credit world or doctors and hospitals in the HIPPA healthcare world; or,
b. FB joins Google and ALL OTHER WEB ADVERTISERS in keeping PII private, never letting it out, and anonymously connecting advertisers with its users for their mutual benefit.
I don't get a vote, but I like (b) and see that as the right path for civil society. There is no way that choice (a) is not a loathsome and destructive force in all things—in my personal opinion it seems that making people's pillow-talk into a marketing weapon is indeed a form of evil.
This is why I never use Facebook…0 -
This is the sort of stuff we should be shouting from the rooftops about, at home and abroad. Yet I had to read it in a local paper here in the UAE, having read through all the British papers and seen nothing.CarlottaVance said:
Heard nowt. Considering the coverage withdrawing from east of Suez got in the first place, its remarkable the silence on this:Sandpit said:
Interestingly, Britain has just opened a new Royal Navy station in Bahrain, Prince Andrew cut the ribbon yesterday. Did this even make the news in the UK?Sandpit said:
Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:Sandpit said:
Yes, that was big news in the region last week. Potentially one of the biggest fields in the world - but it’s going to be difficult and expensive to extract, and is probably several years away.Nigelb said:
I see Bahrain just acquired strategic significance...Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bahrain-announces-huge-shale-oil-discovery-off-its-coast-2018-04-05
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.
https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/britain-s-new-navy-base-marks-stronger-ties-with-its-gulf-allies-1.719134
Britain’s decision to establish its new Royal Navy base in Bahrain – the senior service’s largest operational base outside the UK.
The good news is that the opening has got positive press in the Gulf, where Britain is seen as a key strategic ally and military partner.0 -
Thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
Vanilla gremlin.Nigelb said:What happened to the edit function ?
It is still there just hidden.
Just move your cursor to where it should be and it’ll appear.
(& Mr.D - you tinker.
)
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It's on the wikipedia list:CarlottaVance said:
Heard nowt. Considering the coverage withdrawing from east of Suez got in the first place, its remarkable the silence on this:Sandpit said:
Interestingly, Britain has just opened a new Royal Navy station in Bahrain, Prince Andrew cut the ribbon yesterday. Did this even make the news in the UK?Sandpit said:
Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:Sandpit said:
Yes, that was big news in the region last week. Potentially one of the biggest fields in the world - but it’s going to be difficult and expensive to extract, and is probably several years away.Nigelb said:
I see Bahrain just acquired strategic significance...Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bahrain-announces-huge-shale-oil-discovery-off-its-coast-2018-04-05
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.
https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/britain-s-new-navy-base-marks-stronger-ties-with-its-gulf-allies-1.719134
Britain’s decision to establish its new Royal Navy base in Bahrain – the senior service’s largest operational base outside the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases
(Note the number in Djibouti...)0 -
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
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I'm not so sure the polling industry was entirely a shambles - but it was a lagging indicator in an unusual election.stodge said:
Looking at the last polls, the likes of ICM and ComRes gave the Conservatives double figure leads while the final lead was just 2.5%.
From Britainelect's tracker: when the election was announced the poll average was Con 42.4, Lab 26.5. Con got an immediate 4pt bounce which then dribbled away, and they ended up with .... 42.4! Lab however went on an immediate charge, and the increase is basically a perfect straight line, gaining +0.4 points per day for about 6 weeks (continuing past the election too, peaking at 45).
So even if the polls had their issues, as a whole they had the direction of travel right. Do the lessons learned really apply in more normal, static election situations though?
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While had they retrospectively been able to apply their June 2017 methodologies in 2015 they would have called that general election correct too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, their samples were correct, it was when they applied their turnout/likelihood to vote filters that they got it so wrong.stodge said:
Did the pollsters come up with a reason or explanation as to how some of them got 2017 so badly wrong ?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Martin all of the kabooms were justified.GIN1138 said:
With one KABOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!! ICM went from hero to zero on PB!TheScreamingEagles said:What we really need is a poll from Gold Standard Survation.
Looking at the last polls, the likes of ICM and ComRes gave the Conservatives double figure leads while the final lead was just 2.5%. The problem seemed to be the Labour vote sharw which ended at 41% - not the 33-35% predicted by pollsters.
Ironically if most of the pollsters had used their 2015 methodologies in June 2017 they'd have got the election spot on or thereabouts.
The pollsters had the right methodologies, just for the wrong election!0 -
The correct reply from wee Owen should have been 'Sure, as long as I can accompany you on one of your door knocking exercises.'TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
There was a United Russia deputy on the radio this morning. Poland is another suspect for Salisbury according to him. The Litvinenko murder was a "fairy tale". He ended up getting cut off when his ranting became too much.rottenborough said:0 -
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
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The 'old' HMS Jufair is now the US 5th Fleet NSA Bahrain. This 'new' HMS Jufair is much more modest affair with no dock facilities. CENTCOM might give them the WiFi password if they're lucky.Sandpit said:
Interestingly, Britain has just opened a new Royal Navy station in Bahrain, Prince Andrew cut the ribbon yesterday. Did this even make the news in the UK?
https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/britain-s-new-navy-base-marks-stronger-ties-with-its-gulf-allies-1.7191340 -
Liberty press release: light on details at the moment, but the teams are discussing it with Liberty today.Morris_Dancer said:F1: rather fuzzy from Liberty today. Basically, more overtaking, a cost cap, and more meritocratic distribution of funds.
But not much detail.
First practice starts in just over 20 minutes.
Edited extra bits: Mr. B, the Vanilla icons only enter UK internet via the customs union, so they're being phased out.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/4/formula-1-tables-its-proposals-for-2021.html0 -
Analysis of the position in Hungary, though the final paragraph has the weasel word "could" which probably has the unspoken coda "but won't".
http://www.stateoftheleft.org/could-united-opposition-knock-orban-off-course/0 -
As a good Muslim boy, you shouldn't be reading the stuff Mr Mehta comes out with.TheScreamingEagles said:Now this isn't a spoof.
https://twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/848984468484313089
I love his videos on YouTube re: Atheism mind. Great to watch.0 -
I guess the difference is google anonymise and aggregate the data and sell that information with a separation between the data and a verifiable name.glw said:
It has always bugged me when people equate what the likes of Google do with Facebook. It's a very different approach to business. I'm fairly comfortable with using Google — now admittedly I probably know a lot more than the average user about what Google is doing with my information and how to limit it — but I would never create a Facebook account.Nigelb said:On the Facebook brouhaha, I though this a good article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2018/04/googles-one-time-chief-technology-advocate-on-making-facebook-likable/557378/
So, how might FB fix itself? What might government regulators seek? What could make FaceBook likeable? It is very simple. There are just two choices:
a. FB stays in its send-your-PII-to-their-customers business, and then must be regulated and the customers validated precisely as AXCIOM and EXPERIAN in the credit world or doctors and hospitals in the HIPPA healthcare world; or,
b. FB joins Google and ALL OTHER WEB ADVERTISERS in keeping PII private, never letting it out, and anonymously connecting advertisers with its users for their mutual benefit.
I don't get a vote, but I like (b) and see that as the right path for civil society. There is no way that choice (a) is not a loathsome and destructive force in all things—in my personal opinion it seems that making people's pillow-talk into a marketing weapon is indeed a form of evil.
This is why I never use Facebook…
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Sounds like a good set of principles around which to start negotiations with the teams.Sandpit said:
Liberty press release: light on details at the moment, but the teams are discussing it with Liberty today.Morris_Dancer said:F1: rather fuzzy from Liberty today. Basically, more overtaking, a cost cap, and more meritocratic distribution of funds.
But not much detail.
First practice starts in just over 20 minutes.
Edited extra bits: Mr. B, the Vanilla icons only enter UK internet via the customs union, so they're being phased out.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/4/formula-1-tables-its-proposals-for-2021.html0 -
As a friend of mine observed, I’m as much a good Muslim boy as I am working class.TheValiant said:
As a good Muslim boy, you shouldn't be reading the stuff Mr Mehta comes out with.TheScreamingEagles said:Now this isn't a spoof.
https://twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/848984468484313089
I love his videos on YouTube re: Atheism mind. Great to watch.0 -
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Can you imagine opening your front door to find Little Owen and Johnny Fucking Mercer on the doorstep? Mr. Humphries and Captain Peacock.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
And the reason for that? As I said Corbyn largely squeezed the left of centre anti Tory vote behind him, many who voted Green or LD or even UKIP or SNP in 2015 voted Labour in 2017.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
There was almost no net Tory to Labour movement from 2015 to 2017 and helped too by UKIP voters moving to the Tories May still won the second highest number of Tory seats in 2017 for 25 years0 -
Shows the right sort of Tory will still give Labour a right proper working over. It's high time he was given a far higher profile role. Be a cracking Party Chairman, for example.TheScreamingEagles said:
But not in Johnny Mercer’s seat. His majority went up 400%.Danny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
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I don't think that's quite what Mercer was proposing...although it would doubtless get many headlines in the local press!Dura_Ace said:
Can you imagine opening your front door to find Little Owen and Johnny Fucking Mercer on the doorstep?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I know Johnny Fucking Mercer stood a great chance in 2015, when I heard from another SW MP that Mercer had personally knocked on every door in the constituency. That's a rare level of commitment in a candidate...Dura_Ace said:
Can you imagine opening your front door to find Little Owen and Johnny Fucking Mercer on the doorstep? Mr. Humphries and Captain Peacock.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Young Max Verstappen getting more exercise than he was expecting today.0
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The Lib Dems vote total went from 2,415,916 to 2,371,910 between 2015 and 2017 which whilst not brilliant can hardly be described as a 'collapse'.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
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Mr. Sandpit, indeed. But, better to have it in practice right away than later.0
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The LD voteshare in 2017 was the lowest Liberal voteshare since 1959Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems vote total went from 2,415,916 to 2,371,910 between 2015 and 2017 which whilst not brilliant can hardly be described as a 'collapse'.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
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Says so much about Theresa May that she can find a job for Gavin Williamson but not Johnny Mercer.MarqueeMark said:
Shows the right sort of Tory will still give Labour a right proper working over. It's high time he was given a far higher profile role. Be a cracking Party Chairman, for example.TheScreamingEagles said:
But not in Johnny Mercer’s seat. His majority went up 400%.Danny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
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Warren says she will serve full senate term:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/05/warren-pledges-full-senate-term-2018-505308
Not running in 2020?0 -
My pet theory is that people were more scared of a large Tory majority than of giving succour to Corbyn, not Labour, Corbyn specifically. But I don't know, no more than either of you do, although I'm prepared to lay that on the line, unlike either of you.HYUFD said:
And the reason for that? As I said Corbyn largely squeezed the left of centre anti Tory vote behind him, many who voted Green or LD or even UKIP or SNP in 2015 voted Labour in 2017.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
There was almost no net Tory to Labour movement from 2015 to 2017 and helped too by UKIP voters moving to the Tories May still won the second highest number of Tory seats in 2017 for 25 years0 -
"wood", "trees" methinksrottenborough said:0 -
To be fair to Williamson he increased the Tory voteshare by 10% in South Staffordshire in 2017, not much different from the 14% the Tory voteshare went up by in Plymouth Moor ViewTheScreamingEagles said:
Says so much about Theresa May that she can find a job for Gavin Williamson but not Johnny Mercer.MarqueeMark said:
Shows the right sort of Tory will still give Labour a right proper working over. It's high time he was given a far higher profile role. Be a cracking Party Chairman, for example.TheScreamingEagles said:
But not in Johnny Mercer’s seat. His majority went up 400%.Danny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
0 -
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Certainly the undecideds broke for Corbyn, many of whom may not have voted or voted for minor parties in 2015ReggieCide said:
My pet theory is that people were more scared of a large Tory majority than of giving succour to Corbyn, not Labour, Corbyn specifically. But I don't know, no more than either of you do, although I'm prepared to lay that on the line, unlike either of you.HYUFD said:
And the reason for that? As I said Corbyn largely squeezed the left of centre anti Tory vote behind him, many who voted Green or LD or even UKIP or SNP in 2015 voted Labour in 2017.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
There was almost no net Tory to Labour movement from 2015 to 2017 and helped too by UKIP voters moving to the Tories May still won the second highest number of Tory seats in 2017 for 25 years0 -
If so that opens the way for Sanders in 2020 if Warren backers get behind himrottenborough said:Warren says she will serve full senate term:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/05/warren-pledges-full-senate-term-2018-505308
Not running in 2020?0 -
What a right mess that is. Time for a serious simplification.rottenborough said:0 -
Worth noting that the Liberals only stood in half the seats in the Sixties, so doubled their polling by standing in nearly all by 74. The current rates are even worse in that context.HYUFD said:
The LD voteshare in 2017 was the lowest Liberal voteshare since 1959Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems vote total went from 2,415,916 to 2,371,910 between 2015 and 2017 which whilst not brilliant can hardly be described as a 'collapse'.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
Cable is pisspoor and needs to be gone by Christmas0 -
A neat illustration of how completely broken the income tax structure is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.0 -
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Poor local election results for the LDs next month could push him along the way to the exit doorFoxy said:
Worth noting that the Liberals only stood in half the seats in the Sixties, so doubled their polling by standing in nearly all by 74. The current rates are even worse in that context.HYUFD said:
The LD voteshare in 2017 was the lowest Liberal voteshare since 1959Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems vote total went from 2,415,916 to 2,371,910 between 2015 and 2017 which whilst not brilliant can hardly be described as a 'collapse'.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
Cable is pisspoor and needs to be gone by Christmas0 -
Yes but take Kensington say, a high profile seat that Labour took. The Lib Dems added 6.6% to their vote there more than doubling the vote. So there wasn't any Lib Dem squeezing going on there..HYUFD said:
The LD voteshare in 2017 was the lowest Liberal voteshare since 1959Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems vote total went from 2,415,916 to 2,371,910 between 2015 and 2017 which whilst not brilliant can hardly be described as a 'collapse'.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
My point is the voters the Lib Dems had in 2015 largely seemed to stick with the party in 2017 (With some in seat variation following), a quite different situation to the wholesale UKIP collapse where they lost 3.3 million votes.0 -
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.0 -
Why does it show a 50p rate? I thought that was cut to 45p.rottenborough said:0 -
In a few Remain seats the LD vote went up, in others there was further movement from LD to LabourPulpstar said:
Yes but take Kensington say, a high profile seat that Labour took. The Lib Dems added 6.6% to their vote there more than doubling the vote. So there wasn't any Lib Dem squeezing going on there..HYUFD said:
The LD voteshare in 2017 was the lowest Liberal voteshare since 1959Pulpstar said:
The Lib Dems vote total went from 2,415,916 to 2,371,910 between 2015 and 2017 which whilst not brilliant can hardly be described as a 'collapse'.MikeSmithson said:
Can we stop this tedious crap about vote shares as though it had some meaning. Sure the LAB & CON vote shares went up but that was down to the collapse of UKIP and LDs. It means sod all. TMay still lost David Cameron's hard won majority. The Tory vote share went up 5.8% - a bit of a bugger than that LAB went up by 4 points more.HYUFD said:
With lefties, the Tory voteshare at 42% was the highest since 1983, Corbyn just squeezed the Green and LD vote behind himDanny565 said:Wouldn't the "LOL I'd love to see how people react to you lefties on the doorsteps" jokes work rather better if it hadn't been proven last June that people react rather well to lefty campaigning, including in the seat next door to Johnny Mercer's?
My point is the voters the Lib Dems had in 2015 largely seemed to stick with the party in 2017 (With some in seat variation following), a quite different situation to the wholesale UKIP collapse where they lost 3.3 million votes.0 -
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Of course, anyone would. even more so if they are owner-directors, who directly see the 13.8% employer's NI on top. If you have any other options, you'd have to be certifiable to pay yourself a £10K bonus if you currently earn £100K - the full marginal rate is 66.6%Foxy said:
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.0 -
What will SNP do if Hammond adds 1p to NICs in autumn?Foxy said:
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.0 -
It is perhaps worth revisiting this article in support of Jon Lansman, from Labour Uncut (not noted for its pro-Momentum stance);Scott_P said:
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2018/03/11/three-reasons-why-jennie-formby-should-not-become-general-secretary-of-the-labour-party/0 -
As much as I agree that it's bonkers, it would be a nice problem to have.Richard_Nabavi said:
Of course, anyone would. even more so if they are owner-directors, who directly see the 13.8% employer's NI on top. If you have any other options, you'd have to be certifiable to pay yourself a £10K bonus if you currently earn £100K - the full marginal rate is 66.6%Foxy said:
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.0 -
However, I think that IFS chart is wrong at the top end - the marginal rate (excluding employer's NI) is 47% in England/Wales/NI, not 52% as they show. (48% in Scotland).0
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Noone is paying themselves between 100 and 110k from their own company, just split off into dividend at the most tax efficient point.tlg86 said:
As much as I agree that it's bonkers, it would be a nice problem to have.Richard_Nabavi said:
Of course, anyone would. even more so if they are owner-directors, who directly see the 13.8% employer's NI on top. If you have any other options, you'd have to be certifiable to pay yourself a £10K bonus if you currently earn £100K - the full marginal rate is 66.6%Foxy said:
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.0 -
Sure, but from the government's point of view it means potential tax revenue is being lost. They get 66.6% of nothing if someone modifies their behaviour to avoid the cliff-edge.tlg86 said:As much as I agree that it's bonkers, it would be a nice problem to have.
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You and many other professionals no doubt, those high marginal rates are counter- productive and won’t be raising a lot of revenue - not to mention the additional complexity in calculating the tax due.Foxy said:
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.
I remember when I first hit the 40% bracket, that was a huge disincentive at the time to work any additional overtime.0 -
Someone must have taken out a bet on how much longer and heavier they can make the UK tax code. This link's 9 years old and under Labour it doubled in length:tlg86 said:
Why does it show a 50p rate? I thought that was cut to 45p.rottenborough said:
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/community/blogs/gina-dyer/uk-tax-code-is-longest-in-the-world
That was pre-Osborne, who invented these new higher marginal rates which apply to certain salary ranges.
The law says that consumers can't be expected to read extra-long terms and conditions. But accountants make a living advising non-experts and are expected to have read all 17,000 pages of this guff.0 -
Demand independence.rottenborough said:
What will SNP do if Hammond adds 1p to NICs in autumn?Foxy said:
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.
Admittedly they will do that anyway, but it's always nice to have a valid excuse.0 -
and why pension contributions are keeping me snowed under!!!Foxy said:
It is why I engineer my earnings to fall below the penal rates at just above 100kRichard_Nabavi said:
A neat illustration of how completely broken the tax system is, and that's without even including the effect of Employer's NI or the claw-back of child benefit in the £50K-£60K range, both of which add further twists in terms of distorting behaviour. Sorting out this mess should be the number one priority for future Chancellors, if they really do want to raise more revenue.rottenborough said:
As for the new Scottish complication heaped upon the existing UK complication, it's going to be counter-productive.0 -
61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/9822209982326292500 -
Coverage in the Washington Post:Nigelb said:
It's on the wikipedia list:CarlottaVance said:
Heard nowt. Considering the coverage withdrawing from east of Suez got in the first place, its remarkable the silence on this:Sandpit said:
Interestingly, Britain has just opened a new Royal Navy station in Bahrain, Prince Andrew cut the ribbon yesterday. Did this even make the news in the UK?Sandpit said:
Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:Sandpit said:
Yes, that was big news in the region last week. Potentially one of the biggest fields in the world - but it’s going to be difficult and expensive to extract, and is probably several years away.Nigelb said:
I see Bahrain just acquired strategic significance...Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bahrain-announces-huge-shale-oil-discovery-off-its-coast-2018-04-05
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.
https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/britain-s-new-navy-base-marks-stronger-ties-with-its-gulf-allies-1.719134
Britain’s decision to establish its new Royal Navy base in Bahrain – the senior service’s largest operational base outside the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases
(Note the number in Djibouti...)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/uk-opens-persian-gulf-naval-base-in-bahrain/2018/04/05/b51e3a48-38d7-11e8-af3c-2123715f78df_story.html?utm_term=.3659b073d05a0 -
Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/9822201078531194890 -
https://order-order.com/2018/04/06/green-libdem-pact-back-on-as-250000-bung-remains-unexplained/
Shocked I tell you - worthy of a thread?0 -
My money would be on Rixson (I think)Tissue_Price said:Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489 0 -
If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.HYUFD said:61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250
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My tissue:Pulpstar said:
My money would be on Rixson (I think)Tissue_Price said:Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489
Wood 4/5
Rixson 11/10
MacInnes 10/10 -
There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personallyFloater said:
If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.HYUFD said:61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/9822209982326292500 -
I would.HYUFD said:
There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personallyFloater said:
If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.HYUFD said:61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/9822209982326292500 -
What if it's your garage and you catch them trying to steal your bike?Floater said:
If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.HYUFD said:61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/9822209982326292500 -
0
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£5 Rixson, 50p MacinnesTissue_Price said:
My tissue:Pulpstar said:
My money would be on Rixson (I think)Tissue_Price said:Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489
Wood 4/5
Rixson 11/10
MacInnes 10/10 -
So WaPo picked up the AP’s wire, but none of the British media seem to be bothered and the MoD & RN themselves have hardly gone out to their way to publicise the opening.CarlottaVance said:
Coverage in the Washington Post:Nigelb said:
It's on the wikipedia list:CarlottaVance said:
Heard nowt. Considering the coverage withdrawing from east of Suez got in the first place, its remarkable the silence on this:Sandpit said:
Interestingly, Britain has just opened a new Royal Navy station in Bahrain, Prince Andrew cut the ribbon yesterday. Did this even make the news in the UK?Sandpit said:
Which is why Russia are desperate to keep Syria in a perpetual state of civil war. A pipeline from the Gulf, through Iraq and Syria to Turkey represents a massive threat to Russia, for whom gas exports account for an ever-increasing amount of their access to hard currency.Nigelb said:
It was notable in the ongoing war of words with Russia that they regard(ed) the mooted pipeline through Syria as a "provocation".Sandpit said:
Absolutely. Europe needs to decide if it’s happy relying on Russian gas, if theyre going to get it from Bahrain and Qatar, or if they’re going to start digging themselves. From a political point of view a large amount of Option 3 should be an absolute necessity.notme said:
I’ve said it over and over. We won’t run out of the stuff for generations. There will reach a point where the cost to extract and sell is greater than the alternatives. But nowhere near it yet. Let’s get drilling in Lancashire.Sandpit said:Nigelb said:Sandpit said:
Yes, Monaco is unique in being the only event that F1 attends, rather than promotes itself.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I saw that story. However, it follows Monaco (which apparently is run by a different firm) indicating it's going to have grid girls.
https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comment/britain-s-new-navy-base-marks-stronger-ties-with-its-gulf-allies-1.719134
Britain’s decision to establish its new Royal Navy base in Bahrain – the senior service’s largest operational base outside the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases
(Note the number in Djibouti...)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/uk-opens-persian-gulf-naval-base-in-bahrain/2018/04/05/b51e3a48-38d7-11e8-af3c-2123715f78df_story.html?utm_term=.3659b073d05a 0 -
You'll have to trust me on this but I hadn't seen the stage 2 when I replied.Tissue_Price said:0 -
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LOL! I obviously hadn't seen it when I quoted that tissue either!Pulpstar said:
You'll have to trust me on this but I hadn't seen the stage 2 when I replied.Tissue_Price said:0 -
Something that paints the LibDems in a poor light? Give over!!Floater said:https://order-order.com/2018/04/06/green-libdem-pact-back-on-as-250000-bung-remains-unexplained/
Shocked I tell you - worthy of a thread?
We even had a thread for the hagiography of Lord Rennard on here in recent memory.0 -
I think the law is actually fine, it’s the behaviour of the police and in particular the CPS that’s the problem. But, that doesn’t make for a sexy tabloid headline.HYUFD said:
There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personallyFloater said:
If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.HYUFD said:61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/9822209982326292500 -
I love pb.comTissue_Price said:
My tissue:Pulpstar said:
My money would be on Rixson (I think)Tissue_Price said:Great in-running betting heat here. Parties are (Ind, SNP, Ind, LD, Con, Ind) top-to-bottom. I reckon Colin 'Woody' Wood might sneak this from 3rd.
https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/982220107853119489
Wood 4/5
Rixson 11/10
MacInnes 10/10 -
Most US states have some version of it - the Stand-Your-Ground laws. See map:Pulpstar said:
I would.HYUFD said:
There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personallyFloater said:
If I was in fear for the lives of myself and my family then I would see use of extreme force to defend them justified.HYUFD said:61% of Britons say it should be legal to kill someone who breaks into your property and to defend your home from a burglar, only 19% disagree
https://mobile.twitter.com/YouGov/status/982220998232629250
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#/media/File:Stand-your-ground_law_by_US_jurisdiction.svg0 -
Bah humbug, my standing bet at 12/1 was match, I wouldn't have taken it now.rottenborough said:
Probably £5 in value lost (I'm usually pretty careful about leaving such things hanging)0 -
Not many burglars would risk breaking into an occupied house in the middle of the night unarmed.HYUFD said:
There already is the defence of self defence if your life is threatened by an intruder but this poll result suggests the average voter would go further and legalise extreme force against a burglar even if your life was not in immediate danger and the burglar was unarmed, while I support tougher sentences for burglars and quicker police response times to burglaries I would not go that far personally
Tougher sentences don't do any good except keep them off the streets for a bit longer. Most of these people have been in and out of jail all their lives.
Therefore in principle I'm with the 61%, though the myriad of grey areas means the law has to be flexible. In principle though if you break into someone's house you deserve all you get including a frightened homeowner hitting you over the head with a hammer. If that principle were enshrined in law it might be a good deterrent though might also lead burglars to tool up with more weapons. You find you get more right wing on this when you have kids.
0
