politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Ipsos-MORI polling finds voters have become more positive
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Good luck!NickPalmer said:
This is now my patch - I work in Godalming and hope to stand for the council next year - was writing a newsletter testerday. It's, um, not an area where Labour expects to lose any seats... (current status: 0)AndyJS said:
Surrey SW was one of the LD's top targets at the 2005 election having reduced the Tory majority to 861 in 2001.tlg86 said:
The 2005 election puzzled me. Charlie Kennedy launched his campaign at my Sixth Form College. You'd have thought after Iraq the focus would have been on removing Labour MPs. But no, he thought the place to start was Godalming.
Appropos of that part of the world, I see that Surrey County Council 4 different sets of x reisndets/independents on their council, that's nuts.0 -
As if we needed reminding, he really really does not like Jeremy Corbyn.Scrapheap_as_was said:been out in meetings all day - catching up now but I believe John Woodcock has become even more impressive whilst I've been out?
His patch has been trending more and more Tory over the years it seems - it would make sense if he was less extremely left, the same way that Democrat who won a republican stronghold a couple of weeks back was far from the most liberal lefty, but I don't actually if Woodcock is a blairite or whatever, or just genuinely dislikes what Corbyn stands for.0 -
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/978343764883369986Scrapheap_as_was said:been out in meetings all day - catching up now but I believe John Woodcock has become even more impressive whilst I've been out?
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LOL - Apart from him - but good point well made.TheScreamingEagles said:
Phil Woolas.Floater said:
I'm sorry - where is this problem of islamophobia in Labour?williamglenn said:
I may have missed it I fear.0 -
One man was handing out "Labour against the witch hunt" leaflets. Another gave a speech attacking the Jewish Board of Deputies, ending with the battle cry: "Freedom for Palestine, Corbyn for prime minister!"williamglenn said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43536830
Not sure this is very helpful.
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It’s this kind of nonsense which is why so many people dislike Tony Blair.williamglenn said:Tony Blair is speaking in the Houses of Parliament.
https://twitter.com/sam_lister_/status/978334510214406144
Re Corbyn and his backbenchers: this has been the case since 2015, and has not really held him back. As one PBer has said before, if being a united party was the most important thing the LDs would be soaring in the polls right now.0 -
For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.0 -
Because Williamson is prettierBig_G_NorthWales said:
The noticeable feature of John Woodcock's brutal attack on Corbyn was the empty benches behind him and the small cluster of Corbyn's diehard supporters immediately behind him.EmptyNester said:John Woodcock's scathing intervention was followed up afterwards by a very powerful contribution from Tom Tugendhat. I can see why he is seen by some as a future leader.
Tom Tugendhat's speech was so powerful my wife stopped what she was doing to listen.
Why on earth is he not defence secretary over the very immature Williamson0 -
I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?0
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Last time seen in parliament?....TheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
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Nice reaction to that oaf williamson too... 'sorry, can't hear you old boy'TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/978343764883369986Scrapheap_as_was said:been out in meetings all day - catching up now but I believe John Woodcock has become even more impressive whilst I've been out?
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Hard to interpret a hand gesture, but I could almost imagine Williamson was trying to indicate Woodcock should cross to the other side.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Nice reaction to that oaf williamson too... 'sorry, can't hear you old boy'TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/978343764883369986Scrapheap_as_was said:been out in meetings all day - catching up now but I believe John Woodcock has become even more impressive whilst I've been out?
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He claims to have been having tea with Cameron when he made the decision to resign.MikeSmithson said:Because Williamson is prettier
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2016/06/25/brexit-south-staffordshire-mp-gavin-williamson-shared-cuppa-with-the-pm-before-he-told-the-queen-of-resignation/
He [Williamson] also revealed that the Prime Minister always intended to step aside if Britain voted to leave the EU. Mr Williamson said: "Him and I were sat having a cup of tea before phoning the Queen and it was obvious that he felt it was the right thing to do."0 -
The last Labour government is responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Muslims.Floater said:
LOL - Apart from him - but good point well made.TheScreamingEagles said:
Phil Woolas.Floater said:
I'm sorry - where is this problem of islamophobia in Labour?williamglenn said:
I may have missed it I fear.
The greatest ever Labour government, led by Clem, was also responsible for the deaths of over a million Muslims during the partition of India.
Labour truly hates Muslims, just look how many have died on their watch.0 -
He also has excellent taste given who his better half is.... punching well above his level there.TheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
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I thought as of January he was back to work. Yet to speak in debate though apparently. And I know that is not all there is to being an MP, certainly, but come on.FrancisUrquhart said:
Last time seen in parliament?....TheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
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I just looked up the actual etymology, which is mildly interesting: it's a house in the Bengali style.TheScreamingEagles said:
I once convinced someone that the etymology of bungalow was this.JonnyJimmy said:
India has been rather a rich source of 'new' english words. I think pyjamas and bungalow are two I remember as favouriteskle4 said:
Interesting how certain terms come to take on new meanings so far divorced from their geographic origins. Though of course Tsar is another example.JonnyJimmy said:
Mogul -kle4 said:
Mughal.JonnyJimmy said:
Weren't Moguls Muslim Indian leaders?Ishmael_Z said:
"Shylocks" instead of "moguls" would have got the message across even more clearly.Roger said:
A fine sentiment and one most people would agree withrottenborough said:
Is there a connection with the word Mogul? Genuine question.
1. countable noun
A Mogul was a Muslim ruler in India in the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mogul
Some builders were building a two storey house, but half way through the client ran out of money, and only had one storey built, so hey told the builders to 'bung a low' roof on the building and he'd live in a one storey house.
Thus the word 'bungalow' was born.0 -
I used to think Jack Dromey was the most voter-repellent MP on telly (IDS too on his day) but Chris Williamson is something else....
whisper it quietly but at least Mark Reckless didn't pretend to be an MP still when he was kicked out on his fat....0 -
Prepone is the most useful of the new Indian words (opposite of postpone) and the phrase "do the needful" is common too.JonnyJimmy said:
India has been rather a rich source of 'new' english words. I think pyjamas and bungalow are two I remember as favouriteskle4 said:
Interesting how certain terms come to take on new meanings so far divorced from their geographic origins. Though of course Tsar is another example.JonnyJimmy said:
Mogul -kle4 said:
Mughal.JonnyJimmy said:
Weren't Moguls Muslim Indian leaders?Ishmael_Z said:
"Shylocks" instead of "moguls" would have got the message across even more clearly.Roger said:
A fine sentiment and one most people would agree withrottenborough said:
Is there a connection with the word Mogul? Genuine question.
1. countable noun
A Mogul was a Muslim ruler in India in the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mogul0 -
Well he was PPS, but that still sounds as credible to me as Leadsom sitting down with the Governor of the B of E.williamglenn said:
He claims to have been having tea with Cameron when he made the decision to resign.MikeSmithson said:Because Williamson is prettier
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2016/06/25/brexit-south-staffordshire-mp-gavin-williamson-shared-cuppa-with-the-pm-before-he-told-the-queen-of-resignation/
He [Williamson] also revealed that the Prime Minister always intended to step aside if Britain voted to leave the EU. Mr Williamson said: "Him and I were sat having a cup of tea before phoning the Queen and it was obvious that he felt it was the right thing to do."0 -
Jared O'Mara should be chucked out PDQTheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
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You could move to Barrow. That would solve the problem.TheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
What is Jared O'Mara doing these days other than takingthe pisshis salary?0 -
He submits written questions. Or someone in his office does.ydoethur said:
You could move to Barrow. That would solve the problem.TheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
What is Jared O'Mara doing these days other than takingthe pisshis salary?0 -
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.0 -
I'm a Sheffield lad, I couldn't live anywhere else*ydoethur said:
You could move to Barrow. That would solve the problem.TheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
What is Jared O'Mara doing these days other than takingthe pisshis salary?
As for O'Mara he's submitting written questions and doing a surgery or two.
*If you ignore between 1997 and 2013 I didn't live in Sheffield.
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The scale of the LD collapse in the seat since 2005 is astounding, from 39.5% in 2005 to 9.9% in 2017 with Labour now ahead of them.NickPalmer said:
This is now my patch - I work in Godalming and hope to stand for the council next year - was writing a newsletter testerday. It's, um, not an area where Labour expects to lose any seats... (current status: 0)AndyJS said:
Surrey SW was one of the LD's top targets at the 2005 election having reduced the Tory majority to 861 in 2001.tlg86 said:
The 2005 election puzzled me. Charlie Kennedy launched his campaign at my Sixth Form College. You'd have thought after Iraq the focus would have been on removing Labour MPs. But no, he thought the place to start was Godalming.0 -
I thought you lived most of the time in Manchester anyway?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a Sheffield lad, I couldn't live anywhere else*ydoethur said:
You could move to Barrow. That would solve the problem.TheScreamingEagles said:I have a Labour MP. My Labour MP is Jared O'Mara, why can't I have John Woodcock as my MP?
What is Jared O'Mara doing these days other than takingthe pisshis salary?
As for O'Mara he's submitting written questions and doing a surgery or two.
*If you ignore between 1997 and 2013 I didn't live in Sheffield.
It's surprising to learn that a Corbynista backbencher can write.0 -
Are they united, or is their position re:Brexit the glue holding them together?The_Apocalypse said:
It’s this kind of nonsense which is why so many people dislike Tony Blair.williamglenn said:Tony Blair is speaking in the Houses of Parliament.
https://twitter.com/sam_lister_/status/978334510214406144
Re Corbyn and his backbenchers: this has been the case since 2015, and has not really held him back. As one PBer has said before, if being a united party was the most important thing the LDs would be soaring in the polls right now.0 -
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Etymologically the same word, a corruption of "Mongol".JonnyJimmy said:
Mogul -kle4 said:
Mughal.JonnyJimmy said:
Weren't Moguls Muslim Indian leaders?Ishmael_Z said:
"Shylocks" instead of "moguls" would have got the message across even more clearly.Roger said:
A fine sentiment and one most people would agree withrottenborough said:
Is there a connection with the word Mogul? Genuine question.
1. countable noun
A Mogul was a Muslim ruler in India in the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mogul0 -
Why are you going on about Captain Pugwash???TheScreamingEagles said:Oh God, not another semen stained dress!
https://twitter.com/pdacosta/status/978344071642189829
oh :-)0 -
Has Trump blown it?TheScreamingEagles said:Oh God, not another semen stained dress!
https://twitter.com/pdacosta/status/978344071642189829
Ah, my coat...0 -
It will be really interesting to see how the psychology of a second referendum plays out. I think for a lot of people who voted Leave, the first referendum was simply a way to say, "Nobody asked my opinion about this and I'm not happy."Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
Now that we've had a couple of years of wrestling with the reality of what it means to leave the EU, many of those people may feel happy to give their informed consent to our continuing membership, and in the long run it will remove the toxicity of the issue within our politics.0 -
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.0 -
That's probably because they don't really believe that they have done anything wrong.oxfordsimon said:
His team are getting this utterly wrong. The tone is wrong. The content is wrong. The absence of any real personal apology is wrong.AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn urgently needs to discover the active voice:
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/978290890677637120
If you genuinely do, then writing an apology is not hard. It is only hard when you do it because you feel you have to rather than because you want to.0 -
Yet there has been no movement in the polls, so I am not sure your thesis holds.williamglenn said:
It will be really interesting to see how the psychology of a second referendum plays out. I think for a lot of people who voted Leave, the first referendum was simply a way to say, "Nobody asked my opinion about this and I'm not happy."Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
Now that we've had a couple of years of wrestling with the reality of what it means to leave the EU, many of those people may feel happy to give their informed consent to our continuing membership, and in the long run it will remove the toxicity of the issue within our politics.0 -
If she knew he was going to be president in 2006 she'd have been better off placing a bet!TheScreamingEagles said:Oh God, not another semen stained dress!
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rottenborough said:
Holocaust denial does not just exist on the Far Right of politics. It exists on the Left as well. Corbyn should know. He travelled to Syria with just such a group.0 -
Absolutely.Cyclefree said:
That's probably because they don't really believe that they have done anything wrong.oxfordsimon said:
His team are getting this utterly wrong. The tone is wrong. The content is wrong. The absence of any real personal apology is wrong.AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn urgently needs to discover the active voice:
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/978290890677637120
If you genuinely do, then writing an apology is not hard. It is only hard when you do it because you feel you have to rather than because you want to.
It is also why Corbyn's performance in today's Russia/Security debate was so tetchy - he just cannot see that his position is wrong.0 -
I wish I could say that but in my part of London the impact of uncontrolled migration from the EU is evident.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
There are new slums - properties or dwellings with 15 or 20 adults "living" in a two or three bedroom house. It's also clear for all those who come here to work and make a honest living, there are regrettably those who don't or have disappeared into a growing "black" economy.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/jailed-gangmaster-who-forced-up-to-15-slaves-to-share-bunks-in-tiny-onebed-flat-a3799116.html
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I see how he couldn't just do a statement apologizing, it had to start with the far right yadda yadda, but...Cyclefree said:rottenborough said:
Holocaust denial does not just exist on the Far Right of politics. It exists on the Left as well. Corbyn should know. He travelled to Syria with just such a group.
It is like his world view, the rich powerful global Western Tory elite at fault for everything, yadda yadda ...0 -
I wonder if there is a more subtle impact: driving people out of areas and thereby increasing the purchasing power of buyers in the next most attractive arearcs1000 said:
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true.HYUFD said:
House price growth was strongest as a ratio to earnings from 2000 to 2007 when we had free movement from Eastern Europe, banks and building societies providing mortgages up to 7 times salary and low housebuilding levels. It was a combination of all 3 which had an effectrcs1000 said:
The problem with those charts is that house price growth was suggestst in the period when immigration was weakest, suggesting that while it may will be a factor, it cannot be the dominant one.Elliot said:
https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/house-price-to-earnings-ratio.pngAlastairMeeks said:
Also, the number of seats on the bus are not fixed. Britain had a population of maybe 6000 in 5000BC and 3 million in Roman times, 10.5 million in 1801, 38 million in 1901 and is currently estimated at 65 million. There is no particular reason to assume that it has suddenly become full or overcrowded.
https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/rail-80-10.png
https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cost-transport.png
Real terms house price growth was strongest in the 1980s, when net immigration to the UK was flat to negative.
Immigration went decisively positive in the first half of the 1990s, when house prices collapsed.
I've produced a scatter chart for a report I'm writing, which goes all the way back to 1973, and the correlation seems to be - at the very best - weakly positive. (And to get a weakly positive result you need to really cherry pick the data: using a rolling average, and offsetting the datasets by a year. Basically, playing with the stats in a way that would embarrass even a member of the IPCC.)
I'm happy to share the data with you, but whichever way you cut it, immigration has not been the primary driver of house price moves in the UK. It may well be *a* driver (and indeed, I'd be staggered if it wasn't), but other factors fit the data much better.
Eg when I was growing up it was doctors and architects living on the Phillimore Estate. In the 1990s it was bankers; in the 2000s hedgies. Now it’s oligarchs.
But in the 2000s when bankers were forced to start buying south of Ken High Street prices in Scarsdale Villas went through the roof because you had an influx of relatively well off and liquid buyers descending en masse
As this effect ripples out it gets diluted, but even a small number of people can impact prices0 -
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.0 -
Yes, that felt like an odd aside in the letter. Is he really saying there are no holocaust deniers on the Left? Ideally there would be none anywhere, but it seems really improbable that only right wing fascists have done so.Cyclefree said:
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Well when you have held the same entrenched view for the past 40+ years, no matter what the weather, no matter what the evidence to the contrary...oxfordsimon said:
Absolutely.Cyclefree said:
That's probably because they don't really believe that they have done anything wrong.oxfordsimon said:
His team are getting this utterly wrong. The tone is wrong. The content is wrong. The absence of any real personal apology is wrong.AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn urgently needs to discover the active voice:
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/978290890677637120
If you genuinely do, then writing an apology is not hard. It is only hard when you do it because you feel you have to rather than because you want to.
It is also why Corbyn's performance in today's Russia/Security debate was so tetchy - he just cannot see that his position is wrong.0 -
Your link is an example of criminality, not an effect of free movement. In fact it's much easier for such people to control their victims if their status in the UK is illegal because then they are trapped and vulnerable to blackmail. It has always gone on, with people being trafficked from places like Thailand to work in the sex industry being an obvious example.stodge said:It's also clear for all those who come here to work and make a honest living, there are regrettably those who don't or have disappeared into a growing "black" economy.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/jailed-gangmaster-who-forced-up-to-15-slaves-to-share-bunks-in-tiny-onebed-flat-a3799116.html0 -
What?williamglenn said:
He claims to have been having tea with Cameron when he made the decision to resign.MikeSmithson said:Because Williamson is prettier
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2016/06/25/brexit-south-staffordshire-mp-gavin-williamson-shared-cuppa-with-the-pm-before-he-told-the-queen-of-resignation/
He [Williamson] also revealed that the Prime Minister always intended to step aside if Britain voted to leave the EU. Mr Williamson said: "Him and I were sat having a cup of tea before phoning the Queen and it was obvious that he felt it was the right thing to do."
Cameron made his speech outside Number 10 just after 8am on the morning after the referendum.
Is it seriously being suggested that Cameron rang the Queen before 8am in the morning?
Sorry, doesn't ring true at all.0 -
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations. Those who voted to leave did so for a vast range of reasons. To try to diminish that group of people with a smear says more about you than them.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.0 -
I wonder about people working in advertising...
The ad, which the US star linked to on his Twitter, sees a bartender slide a beer past three black people before it stops near the hand of a lighter-skinned woman. As the woman picks up the beer, the tagline "sometimes, lighter is better" appears on screen.
Heineken said it had "missed the mark" with the advert.
http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-435424650 -
He did.MikeL said:
What?williamglenn said:
He claims to have been having tea with Cameron when he made the decision to resign.MikeSmithson said:Because Williamson is prettier
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2016/06/25/brexit-south-staffordshire-mp-gavin-williamson-shared-cuppa-with-the-pm-before-he-told-the-queen-of-resignation/
He [Williamson] also revealed that the Prime Minister always intended to step aside if Britain voted to leave the EU. Mr Williamson said: "Him and I were sat having a cup of tea before phoning the Queen and it was obvious that he felt it was the right thing to do."
Cameron made his speech outside Number 10 just after 8am on the morning after the referendum.
Is it seriously being suggested that Cameron rang the Queen before 8am in the morning?
Sorry, doesn't ring true at all.
(Well his staff rang the Palace, to say is it possible to speak to the Queen, she accepted the call)
He also rang her early on September 19th 2014 to let her know the result of the Scottish referendum.0 -
I rather like numerating in lakhs.DecrepitJohnL said:
Prepone is the most useful of the new Indian words (opposite of postpone) and the phrase "do the needful" is common too.JonnyJimmy said:
India has been rather a rich source of 'new' english words. I think pyjamas and bungalow are two I remember as favouriteskle4 said:
Interesting how certain terms come to take on new meanings so far divorced from their geographic origins. Though of course Tsar is another example.JonnyJimmy said:
Mogul -kle4 said:
Mughal.JonnyJimmy said:
Weren't Moguls Muslim Indian leaders?Ishmael_Z said:
"Shylocks" instead of "moguls" would have got the message across even more clearly.Roger said:
A fine sentiment and one most people would agree withrottenborough said:
Is there a connection with the word Mogul? Genuine question.
1. countable noun
A Mogul was a Muslim ruler in India in the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mogul0 -
Your sense of humour grows more arid by the day.williamglenn said:
It will be really interesting to see how the psychology of a second referendum plays out. I think for a lot of people who voted Leave, the first referendum was simply a way to say, "Nobody asked my opinion about this and I'm not happy."Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
Now that we've had a couple of years of wrestling with the reality of what it means to leave the EU, many of those people may feel happy to give their informed consent to our continuing membership, and in the long run it will remove the toxicity of the issue within our politics.0 -
Also in Dave's resignation speech on June 24th he said he has spoken to the Queen that morning.0
-
OTOH, they may take the view "What part of Leave don't you understand."williamglenn said:
It will be really interesting to see how the psychology of a second referendum plays out. I think for a lot of people who voted Leave, the first referendum was simply a way to say, "Nobody asked my opinion about this and I'm not happy."Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
Now that we've had a couple of years of wrestling with the reality of what it means to leave the EU, many of those people may feel happy to give their informed consent to our continuing membership, and in the long run it will remove the toxicity of the issue within our politics.0 -
I wish we had more posts like yours on this site.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations. Those who voted to leave did so for a vast range of reasons. To try to diminish that group of people with a smear says more about you than them.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.0 -
Good grief.FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder about people working in advertising...
The ad, which the US star linked to on his Twitter, sees a bartender slide a beer past three black people before it stops near the hand of a lighter-skinned woman. As the woman picks up the beer, the tagline "sometimes, lighter is better" appears on screen.
Heineken said it had "missed the mark" with the advert.
http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-43542465
That is almost as jaw-droppingly tin-eared and ludicrous as the average Corbyn apology.0 -
1 It is a simple fact that Leave campaigned and won on xenophobic lies.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations. Those who voted to leave did so for a vast range of reasons. To try to diminish that group of people with a smear says more about you than them.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.
2 A constructive debate is only possible when there is agreement about the facts. Leave advocates can’t yet handle the truth.
3. I didn’t admit either of those things.0 -
What kind of mess is this?FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder about people working in advertising...
The ad, which the US star linked to on his Twitter, sees a bartender slide a beer past three black people before it stops near the hand of a lighter-skinned woman. As the woman picks up the beer, the tagline "sometimes, lighter is better" appears on screen.
Heineken said it had "missed the mark" with the advert.
http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-435424650 -
Perhaps Seamus is moonlighting for a bit of extra cash.ydoethur said:
Good grief.FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder about people working in advertising...
The ad, which the US star linked to on his Twitter, sees a bartender slide a beer past three black people before it stops near the hand of a lighter-skinned woman. As the woman picks up the beer, the tagline "sometimes, lighter is better" appears on screen.
Heineken said it had "missed the mark" with the advert.
http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-43542465
That is almost as jaw-droppingly tin-eared and ludicrous as the average Corbyn apology.0 -
Well 99 calorie Heineken does sound like it probably tastes like gnats piss.The_Apocalypse said:
What kind of mess is this?FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder about people working in advertising...
The ad, which the US star linked to on his Twitter, sees a bartender slide a beer past three black people before it stops near the hand of a lighter-skinned woman. As the woman picks up the beer, the tagline "sometimes, lighter is better" appears on screen.
Heineken said it had "missed the mark" with the advert.
http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-435424650 -
Well, I suppose he is a self-declared Communist, and that is how good Communists maintain a nice lifestyle...FrancisUrquhart said:
Perhaps Seamus is moonlighting for a bit of extra cash.ydoethur said:
Good grief.FrancisUrquhart said:I wonder about people working in advertising...
The ad, which the US star linked to on his Twitter, sees a bartender slide a beer past three black people before it stops near the hand of a lighter-skinned woman. As the woman picks up the beer, the tagline "sometimes, lighter is better" appears on screen.
Heineken said it had "missed the mark" with the advert.
http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-43542465
That is almost as jaw-droppingly tin-eared and ludicrous as the average Corbyn apology.0 -
Re point 1 - and this is a genuine question - are you referring to the two posters towards the end of the campaign (I think) - one on Turkey and one showing a queue of young men (the one unveiled by Farage)? Or other posters/campaign leaflets?AlastairMeeks said:
1 It is a simple fact that Leave campaigned and won on xenophobic lies.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations. Those who voted to leave did so for a vast range of reasons. To try to diminish that group of people with a smear says more about you than them.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.
2 A constructive debate is only possible when there is agreement about the facts. Leave advocates can’t yet handle the truth.
3. I didn’t admit either of those things.
Or is your case that campaigning against FoM was, ipso facto, xenophobic and/or a lie?0 -
1 - No. It quite simply isn't a fact. It is your opinion. Strongly held, strongly and frequently expressed but still your opinion.AlastairMeeks said:
1 It is a simple fact that Leave campaigned and won on xenophobic lies.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.
2 A constructive debate is only possible when there is agreement about the facts. Leave advocates can’t yet handle the truth.
3. I didn’t admit either of those things.
2 - What you have stated as being a fact is clearly an opinion - so how are you going to use that as the basis for a debate on your terms?
3 - If you aren't the bitter one doing all the shouting - who is?
We know you are beyond frustrated with the current situation. I think we can all be certain of the pain you feel at the direction things are heading. But you are more likely to alienate people than persuade them if you continue in this way.0 -
Yes, I’m referring to the two posters you name.Cyclefree said:
Re point 1 - and this is a genuine question - are you referring to the two posters towards the end of the campaign (I think) - one on Turkey and one showing a queue of young men (the one unveiled by Farage)? Or other posters/campaign leaflets?AlastairMeeks said:
1 It is a simple fact that Leave campaigned and won on xenophobic lies.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations. Those who voted to leave did so for a vast range of reasons. To try to diminish that group of people with a smear says more about you than them.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.
2 A constructive debate is only possible when there is agreement about the facts. Leave advocates can’t yet handle the truth.
3. I didn’t admit either of those things.
Or is your case that campaigning against FoM was, ipso facto, xenophobic and/or a lie?0 -
TM has played a blinder on Russia and must have secured her future as leader and gained goodwill for her EU negotiations0
-
Nurse ! More meds for bed 69 pronto!AlastairMeeks said:
1 It is a simple fact that Leave campaigned and won on xenophobic lies.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations. Those who voted to leave did so for a vast range of reasons. To try to diminish that group of people with a smear says more about you than them.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.
2 A constructive debate is only possible when there is agreement about the facts. Leave advocates can’t yet handle the truth.
3. I didn’t admit either of those things.0 -
This tweet encapsulates most of the Vote Leave messages in one. Only Turkey is missing.
https://twitter.com/vote_leave/status/7340806870164316240 -
Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form0
-
ThanksAlastairMeeks said:
Yes, I’m referring to the two posters you name.Cyclefree said:
Re point 1 - and this is a genuine question - are you referring to the two posters towards the end of the campaign (I think) - one on Turkey and one showing a queue of young men (the one unveiled by Farage)? Or other posters/campaign leaflets?AlastairMeeks said:
1 It is a simple fact that Leave campaigned and won on xenophobic lies.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.Cookie said:
Good points Nick.Casino_Royale said:
Thank you for posting such a fair comment.NickPalmer said:For some Leavers, I think the referendum lanced the immigration boil. In those cases, it wasn't so much that they opposed immigrants, but they felt the matter was out of control. Now it (perhaps) will be more under British control, they feel more able to say that current levels are OK.
The referendum also boosted the number who felt actively pro-EU and all its works including free movement - sometimes, one doesn't know what one likes till one loses it.
I think that sums up the feelings of many Leavers rather well.
See, if we could discuss the matter like this we wouldn't end up shouting at each opther.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations. Those who voted to leave did so for a vast range of reasons. To try to diminish that group of people with a smear says more about you than them.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.
2 A constructive debate is only possible when there is agreement about the facts. Leave advocates can’t yet handle the truth.
3. I didn’t admit either of those things.
Or is your case that campaigning against FoM was, ipso facto, xenophobic and/or a lie?0 -
I’m not looking to persuade. There’s none so blind as will not see and I’m not in the business of helping those impaled on their own spikes.oxfordsimon said:
1 - No. It quite simply isn't a fact. It is your opinion. Strongly held, strongly and frequently expressed but still your opinion.AlastairMeeks said:
1 It is a simple fact that Leave campaigned and won on xenophobic lies.oxfordsimon said:
I really don't know where to begin with that. Well, maybe I doAlastairMeeks said:
If Leavers could admit that they won through xenophobic lies, a constructive debate could begin. But until they do, the bitterness and the shouting will endure.
1 - Leavers are not a single body of people with one set of ideas or motivations.
2 - I do not believe you want a constructive debate. You just want people to switch sides to supporting your view of things. I sense no desire on your part to actually listen to opposing arguments.
3 - At least you admit you are bitter. And that you are the one doing the shouting.
I think we all know you have strong feelings on this subject. But the constant repetition of this sort of posting does you no favours. You won't win hearts and minds like this.
And I write as someone who voted - albeit reluctantly - for Remain. I was persuaded by the economic arguments being put forward by Remain - even though I have major issues with the legal institutions of the EU and the lack of democratic accountability that comes with them.
2 A constructive debate is only possible when there is agreement about the facts. Leave advocates can’t yet handle the truth.
3. I didn’t admit either of those things.
2 - What you have stated as being a fact is clearly an opinion - so how are you going to use that as the basis for a debate on your terms?
3 - If you aren't the bitter one doing all the shouting - who is?
We know you are beyond frustrated with the current situation. I think we can all be certain of the pain you feel at the direction things are heading. But you are more likely to alienate people than persuade them if you continue in this way.
At some point Leavers will need to mend fences with those who are utterly disgusted at their conduct if they want Brexit to be a success. So far they have given no thought to how they are going to do that. They get outraged at the problem being pointed out. But the only way is the hard way.0 -
I had forgotten she existedmarke09 said:Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form
0 -
She is irrelevant in Walesmarke09 said:Leanne Wood leader of Plaid Cymru is a disgrace - she wont back Russian actions as she doesn't believe a word the Tories say without evidence as they have form
0 -
A similar sequence might happen with gentrification of previously working class areas.Charles said:
I wonder if there is a more subtle impact: driving people out of areas and thereby increasing the purchasing power of buyers in the next most attractive arearcs1000 said:
I'm sorry, but that's simply not true.HYUFD said:
House price growth was strongest as a ratio to earnings from 2000 to 2007 when we had free movement from Eastern Europe, banks and building societies providing mortgages up to 7 times salary and low housebuilding levels. It was a combination of all 3 which had an effectrcs1000 said:
The problem with those charts is that house price growth was suggestst in the period when immigration was weakest, suggesting that while it may will be a factor, it cannot be the dominant one.
Real terms house price growth was strongest in the 1980s, when net immigration to the UK was flat to negative.
Immigration went decisively positive in the first half of the 1990s, when house prices collapsed.
I've produced a scatter chart for a report I'm writing, which goes all the way back to 1973, and the correlation seems to be - at the very best - weakly positive. (And to get a weakly positive result you need to really cherry pick the data: using a rolling average, and offsetting the datasets by a year. Basically, playing with the stats in a way that would embarrass even a member of the IPCC.)
I'm happy to share the data with you, but whichever way you cut it, immigration has not been the primary driver of house price moves in the UK. It may well be *a* driver (and indeed, I'd be staggered if it wasn't), but other factors fit the data much better.
Eg when I was growing up it was doctors and architects living on the Phillimore Estate. In the 1990s it was bankers; in the 2000s hedgies. Now it’s oligarchs.
But in the 2000s when bankers were forced to start buying south of Ken High Street prices in Scarsdale Villas went through the roof because you had an influx of relatively well off and liquid buyers descending en masse
As this effect ripples out it gets diluted, but even a small number of people can impact prices
Though it would be the owner-occupier oldies who benefit financially - I bet many a retirement bungalow has been bought as a consequence of gentrification - while the young and renters are steadily financially forced out of their original area.
There will be a negative equivalent at the lower end of the housing scale as well - a cheap area becomes dominated by HMOs forcing the original inhabitants into different districts.0 -
Ah OK - many thanks - fair enough!TheScreamingEagles said:
He did.MikeL said:
What?williamglenn said:
He claims to have been having tea with Cameron when he made the decision to resign.MikeSmithson said:Because Williamson is prettier
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2016/06/25/brexit-south-staffordshire-mp-gavin-williamson-shared-cuppa-with-the-pm-before-he-told-the-queen-of-resignation/
He [Williamson] also revealed that the Prime Minister always intended to step aside if Britain voted to leave the EU. Mr Williamson said: "Him and I were sat having a cup of tea before phoning the Queen and it was obvious that he felt it was the right thing to do."
Cameron made his speech outside Number 10 just after 8am on the morning after the referendum.
Is it seriously being suggested that Cameron rang the Queen before 8am in the morning?
Sorry, doesn't ring true at all.
(Well his staff rang the Palace, to say is it possible to speak to the Queen, she accepted the call)
He also rang her early on September 19th 2014 to let her know the result of the Scottish referendum.0 -
Not necessarily Big G. The EU may feel that having given Britain such unequivocal support they are the ones owed the goodwill in negotiations.Big_G_NorthWales said:TM has played a blinder on Russia and must have secured her future as leader and gained goodwill for her EU negotiations
However, I suspect she has stilled the leadership mutterings for now.0 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
I once convinced someone that pumpernickel was a corruption of “pain pour Nickel” and recorded Napoleons reaction to a filthy peasant bread as he fed it to his horse Nickel.TheScreamingEagles said:
I once convinced someone that the etymology of bungalow was this.JonnyJimmy said:
India has been rather a rich source of 'new' english words. I think pyjamas and bungalow are two I remember as favouriteskle4 said:
Interesting how certain terms come to take on new meanings so far divorced from their geographic origins. Though of course Tsar is another example.JonnyJimmy said:
Mogul -kle4 said:
Mughal.JonnyJimmy said:
Weren't Moguls Muslim Indian leaders?Ishmael_Z said:
"Shylocks" instead of "moguls" would have got the message across even more clearly.Roger said:
A fine sentiment and one most people would agree withrottenborough said:
Is there a connection with the word Mogul? Genuine question.
1. countable noun
A Mogul was a Muslim ruler in India in the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mogul
Some builders were building a two storey house, but half way through the client ran out of money, and only had one storey built, so hey told the builders to 'bung a low' roof on the building and he'd live in a one storey house.
Thus the word 'bungalow' was born.0
