politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The danger for Corbyn is that his vulnerability on antisemitis

https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/977966937404780545

So how many silver bullets is it that the PB Tories have loaded up against Jezzah?

I make it:

Association with IRA
Association with Hamas
Association with Venezuela
Being a Stalinist/Communist/Marxist
Not wearing a tie
Bonking Abbott
Not immediately demanding a nuclear strike on Moscow after Salisbury

Good luck with the freshly minted hollow point antisemitism round, lads.

President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews:

“[Jeremy Corbyn]’s fostered a culture in which people feel free to come out with rank anti-Semitism… the political sea, or perhaps I should call it a sewer, in which he swims, is totally polluted by anti-Semitism.”

https://order-order.com/2018/03/26/board-of-deputies-chief-corbyn-swims-in-a-sewer-of-anti-semitism/

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Corbyn may think he is not technically anti Jewish but he is largely anti Israel, just as he is anti American and his support for the Palestinians and the Russians is clearly as a counterweight to them

the two.

Corbyn comes across to me as a passive antisemite. Someone who would never, ever think of himself as one, and is genuinely horrified that he's called one, yet his actions and words give succour to antisemites.

He's thick and dangerous.

That is quite possible. Even this so-called artwork at first glance seems more about masons than Jews, especially if the viewer is not attuned to anti-semitic tropes

Or it's possible to create antisemitic tropes to appeal to antisemites and 'hide' them behind masonic and other tropes?

Besides, as someone pointed out the other day, it's not even any good.

The painter's comments about Jews complaining that he was showing up "their beloved Rothschild and Warburg for the demons they are" show what he was aiming at, anyway.

One day those behind the Leave campaigns’ posters will have as much honesty about what they were aiming at.

But most Leave advocates are simply satisfied that they were better shots.

Cry me a river.

So your concern about the anti-Semitic mural is, as Corbynites believe, entirely insincere and party political. Noted.

You don't know me, and I have no desire to know you, so I'd be grateful if you'd stop speculating about my motivations.

Leave advocates will struggle to climb on their high horses after they've been rolling around in the gutter.

There were no ugly racial stereotypes in VoteLeave's materials. You can find individual supporters of the campaign that were engaged in ugliness, but the same is true of those on the Remain side arguing white Europeans were a "better fit" for integration than us brown people. I don't recall Sean ever making bigoted remarks. Not that that matters to your derangement on this issue.

https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/978036494513442818
https://twitter.com/feedthedrummer/status/978034607537950720

https://twitter.com/abradacabla/status/978212743839920128

williamglenn said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/977966937404780545

Does it include spending by the Russian government?

Perhaps you'd like to ask Putin rather than us

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

So how many silver bullets is it that the PB Tories have loaded up against Jezzah?

I make it:

Association with IRA
Association with Hamas
Association with Venezuela
Being a Stalinist/Communist/Marxist
Not wearing a tie
Bonking Abbott
Not immediately demanding a nuclear strike on Moscow after Salisbury

Good luck with the freshly minted hollow point antisemitism round, lads.

Even you must admit bonking Diane shows Corbyn has poor judgment and ergo is unfit to be PM.

I will cast no first stones when it comes to unwise hi jinks from the past. Besides Diane (like most of us) looked quite bonny in her youth.

Pulpstar said:

logical_song said:

"Ratings agency Moody's said new car registrations were likely to fall 5.5% in 2018, making the UK the "worst performing" market of any big European economy.

By contrast, it said Germany, Spain, France and Italy would all see gains.

Moody's said the fall in the value of the pound since the EU referendum had made imported cars more expensive.

It also said Brexit-related uncertainty was "weighing on consumer spending decisions".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43534484

The government has done its damndest to depress new car sales I'd say.

I think there one or two aspects to this. One is the full on attack on diesels and, in my opinion, the other is the record sales over the last few years possibly as a result of the billions of PPI payments.

williamglenn said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/977966937404780545

Does it include spending by the Russian government?

Wasn't it some absurdly small amount of money spent on ads?

https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/978214547994669057

Elliot said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Corbyn may think he is not technically anti Jewish but he is largely anti Israel, just as he is anti American and his support for the Palestinians and the Russians is clearly as a counterweight to them

the two.

Corbyn comes across to me as a passive antisemite. Someone who would never, ever think of himself as one, and is genuinely horrified that he's called one, yet his actions and words give succour to antisemites.

He's thick and dangerous.

That is quite possible. Even this so-called artwork at first glance seems more about masons than Jews, especially if the viewer is not attuned to anti-semitic tropes

Or it's possible to create antisemitic tropes to appeal to antisemites and 'hide' them behind masonic and other tropes?

Besides, as someone pointed out the other day, it's not even any good.

The painter's comments about Jews complaining that he was showing up "their beloved Rothschild and Warburg for the demons they are" show what he was aiming at, anyway.

One day those behind the Leave campaigns’ posters will have as much honesty about what they were aiming at.

But most Leave advocates are simply satisfied that they were better shots.

Cry me a river.

So your concern about the anti-Semitic mural is, as Corbynites believe, entirely insincere and party political. Noted.

You don't know me, and I have no desire to know you, so I'd be grateful if you'd stop speculating about my motivations.

Leave advocates will struggle to climb on their high horses after they've been rolling around in the gutter.

There were no ugly racial stereotypes in VoteLeave's materials. You can find individual supporters of the campaign that were engaged in ugliness, but the same is true of those on the Remain side arguing white Europeans were a "better fit" for integration than us brown people. I don't recall Sean ever making bigoted remarks. Not that that matters to your derangement on this issue.

Both Leave campaigns were centred on xenophobic lies. Leave advocates can't complain about the ugliness of others when they fell in behind those so happily.

Elliot said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Corbyn may think he is not technically anti Jewish but he is largely anti Israel, just as he is anti American and his support for the Palestinians and the Russians is clearly as a counterweight to them

the two.

Corbyn comes across to me as a passive antisemite. Someone who would never, ever think of himself as one, and is genuinely horrified that he's called one, yet his actions and words give succour to antisemites.

He's thick and dangerous.

That is quite possible. Even this so-called artwork at first glance seems more about masons than Jews, especially if the viewer is not attuned to anti-semitic tropes

Or it's possible to create antisemitic tropes to appeal to antisemites and 'hide' them behind masonic and other tropes?

Besides, as someone pointed out the other day, it's not even any good.

The painter's comments about Jews complaining that he was showing up "their beloved Rothschild and Warburg for the demons they are" show what he was aiming at, anyway.

One day those behind the Leave campaigns’ posters will have as much honesty about what they were aiming at.

But most Leave advocates are simply satisfied that they were better shots.

Cry me a river.

So your concern about the anti-Semitic mural is, as Corbynites believe, entirely insincere and party political. Noted.

You don't know me, and I have no desire to know you, so I'd be grateful if you'd stop speculating about my motivations.

Leave advocates will struggle to climb on their high horses after they've been rolling around in the gutter.

There were no ugly racial stereotypes in VoteLeave's materials. You can find individual supporters of the campaign that were engaged in ugliness, but the same is true of those on the Remain side arguing white Europeans were a "better fit" for integration than us brown people. I don't recall Sean ever making bigoted remarks. Not that that matters to your derangement on this issue.

This Leave/Remainer division is going to run and run. How long did it take for the Cavalier/Roundhead division in England to really be put to bed? Even allowing for the comprehensive Cavalier victory in 1660.

Scott_P said:

Danielle Blake - @abradacabla: This is a staffer for @LauraPidcockMP, attacking a Jewish editor of a Jewish paper for correctly pointing out Corbyn is the problem and obstacle to getting anything done regarding anti-Semitism in Labour.

Ouch

It was an offensive tweet in the first place - but knowing more about the tweeter makes it worse

The_Apocalypse said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Theuniondivvie said:

So how many silver bullets is it that the PB Tories have loaded up against Jezzah?

I make it:

Association with IRA
Association with Hamas
Association with Venezuela
Being a Stalinist/Communist/Marxist
Not wearing a tie
Bonking Abbott
Not immediately demanding a nuclear strike on Moscow after Salisbury

Good luck with the freshly minted hollow point antisemitism round, lads.

Ignoring the idiocies in your list, you seem to be making the point that it is to Labour's benefit that there are several very serious reasons why Corbyn should never get anywhere near No 10, rather than just one.

It's a view.

I think he/she’s making the point that these criticisms of Corbyn have not really been that effective in really damaging him in the past, no matter how valid they are. I still maintain that to beat Corbyn, his opponents will need to articulate a positive vision as to why people should vote for them. ‘Corbyn is bad’ won’t do it, because voters have a number of grievances, and ‘Corbyn is bad’ does not address those grievances in anyway.

There's bad and then there's bad. This seems badder than bad (electorially)

AlastairMeeks said:

Elliot said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Corbyn may think he is not technically anti Jewish but he is largely anti Israel, just as he is anti American and his support for the Palestinians and the Russians is clearly as a counterweight to them

the two.

Corbyn comes across to me as a passive antisemite. Someone who would never, ever think of himself as one, and is genuinely horrified that he's called one, yet his actions and words give succour to antisemites.

He's thick and dangerous.

That is quite possible. Even this so-called artwork at first glance seems more about masons than Jews, especially if the viewer is not attuned to anti-semitic tropes

Or it's possible to create antisemitic tropes to appeal to antisemites and 'hide' them behind masonic and other tropes?

Besides, as someone pointed out the other day, it's not even any good.

The painter's comments about Jews complaining that he was showing up "their beloved Rothschild and Warburg for the demons they are" show what he was aiming at, anyway.

One day those behind the Leave campaigns’ posters will have as much honesty about what they were aiming at.

But most Leave advocates are simply satisfied that they were better shots.

Cry me a river.

So your concern about the anti-Semitic mural is, as Corbynites believe, entirely insincere and party political. Noted.

You don't know me, and I have no desire to know you, so I'd be grateful if you'd stop speculating about my motivations.

Leave advocates will struggle to climb on their high horses after they've been rolling around in the gutter.

There were no ugly racial stereotypes in VoteLeave's materials. You can find individual supporters of the campaign that were engaged in ugliness, but the same is true of those on the Remain side arguing white Europeans were a "better fit" for integration than us brown people. I don't recall Sean ever making bigoted remarks. Not that that matters to your derangement on this issue.

Both Leave campaigns were centred on xenophobic lies. Leave advocates can't complain about the ugliness of others when they fell in behind those so happily.

you have to be a bigot to write that, don't you?

oxfordsimon said:

Scott_P said:

Danielle Blake - @abradacabla: This is a staffer for @LauraPidcockMP, attacking a Jewish editor of a Jewish paper for correctly pointing out Corbyn is the problem and obstacle to getting anything done regarding anti-Semitism in Labour.

Ouch

It was an offensive tweet in the first place - but knowing more about the tweeter makes it worse

You sound surprised. Should you be?

TheJezziah said:

Theuniondivvie said:

So how many silver bullets is it that the PB Tories have loaded up against Jezzah?

I make it:

Association with IRA
Association with Hamas
Association with Venezuela
Being a Stalinist/Communist/Marxist
Not wearing a tie
Bonking Abbott
Not immediately demanding a nuclear strike on Moscow after Salisbury

Good luck with the freshly minted hollow point antisemitism round, lads.

This time it will be different!

God knows why but apparently if you just hope for something enough it might happen...

Doesn't that just apply to corbynomics?

Ishmael_Z said:

ReggieCide said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Theuniondivvie said:

So how many silver bullets is it that the PB Tories have loaded up against Jezzah?

I make it:

Association with IRA
Association with Hamas
Association with Venezuela
Being a Stalinist/Communist/Marxist
Not wearing a tie
Bonking Abbott
Not immediately demanding a nuclear strike on Moscow after Salisbury

Good luck with the freshly minted hollow point antisemitism round, lads.

It's not tories Jezza has on his ass, it's the Board of Deputies of British Jews and a fair wodge of the PLP. PB tories are mere onlookers, like the picnicking spectators at the battle of Bull Run (which didn't end well, of course).

Most battles tend to end better for one side than the other

Didn't end well for the picnicking side.

Were they in the "away" end?

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Corbyn may think he is not technically anti Jewish but he is largely anti Israel, just as he is anti American and his support for the Palestinians and the Russians is clearly as a counterweight to them

Tha's pretty fair. I agree he's largely against the policies of both the United States and Israel (he's nothing against individuals who happen to come from there), on which I think he's largely right, and that's over the years led him to give airtime to

It is just as wrong to assume that if one's Jewish (or even merely not anti-semitic) one "must" like Israel and its policies, as the reverse, to think that if one's sympathetic to the horrible situation of many Palestinians one should start worrying about Jewish conspiracies. Both some passionate Zionists and some passionate pro-Palestinians fall into the trap of conflating the two.

Corbyn comes across to me as a passive antisemite. Someone who would never, ever think of himself as one, and is genuinely horrified that he's called one, yet his actions and words give succour to antisemites.

He's thick and dangerous.

That is quite possible. Even this so-called artwork at first glance seems more about masons than Jews, especially if the viewer is not attuned to anti-semitic tropes

Or it's possible to create antisemitic tropes to appeal to antisemites and 'hide' them behind masonic and other tropes?

Besides, as someone pointed out the other day, it's not even any good.

The painter's comments about Jews complaining that he was showing up "their beloved Rothschild and Warburg for the demons they are" show what he was aiming at, anyway.

One day those behind the Leave campaigns’ posters will have as much honesty about what they were aiming at.

But most Leave advocates are simply satisfied that they were better shots.

Cry me a river.

So your concern about the anti-Semitic mural is, as Corbynites believe, entirely insincere and party political. Noted.

You don't know me, and I have no desire to know you, so I'd be grateful if you'd stop speculating about my motivations.

In my view, it’s entirely pointless engaging with him on this subject. I no longer do so.

Am loving Valerie Vaz not understanding what anti-Semitism is on Westminster Hour last night.

https://order-order.com/2018/03/26/shadow-cabinet-minister-corbyn-steeped-anti-semitism-anti-semitic-party/

There is mis-speaking and there is complete car crash. I think she will need more than the AA and RAC combined after this one.

oxfordsimon said:

Am loving Valerie Vaz not understanding what anti-Semitism is on Westminster Hour last night.

https://order-order.com/2018/03/26/shadow-cabinet-minister-corbyn-steeped-anti-semitism-anti-semitic-party/

There is mis-speaking and there is complete car crash. I think she will need more than the AA and RAC combined after this one.

Too many -isms make a schism.

I wrote the following on this site in 2015.

“I'm probably wasting time here but let me try anyway.

Not all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic and it is wrong to claim that it is or to claim that one must not criticise Israel in general or particular Israeli governments in particular because to do so would be anti-Semitic. That is an attempt to shut down debate. Just because Jews have been the victims of the worst case of genocide we have known and repeated attacks over centuries does not mean that they are immune from bad behaviour themselves. Being a victim does not imbue one with some sort of automatic moral superiority.

Equally, it is also the case that there are people who are anti-Semitic and who mask this by claiming to be anti-Zionist and use the anti-Zionist label in order to make anti-Semitic attacks on Israel and on Jews. The Zionist label has been a gift to such people. And it is one reason why people are sensitive to the use of such a term.

There is also something quite troubling and disturbing about the viciousness with which Jews ae attacked for somehow betraying the moral superiority they are meant to have as a result of being victims, almost as if they are being attacked for being victims.

There are others who, while being hyper-sensitive to the perception which some minority groups have to statements made about them which may be seen to be stereotypical or too broad brush or offensive or just plain insensitive, seem surprisingly insensitive to the perception which Jews have of how they are described even though they are good historical reasons why Jews would be sensitive to the portrayal of them in the media and by politicians.

And now I await the bucketloads of abuse which will surely be the fate of anyone treading on such delicate ground.“

The fact that even now - after Corbyn has issued some sort of apology - people are claiming that allegations of anti-semitism are not real but an attempt to deflect legitimate criticisms of Zionism and/or Israel shows that nothing has been learnt.

I fear that it will take some sort of atrocity before people realise that anti-semitism / hatred of the scapegoat du jour and turning a blind eye can have murderous and tragic consequences. That we should need to learn this lesson - again - despite the experiences of our parents and grandparents is profoundly depressing.

TheJezziah said:

Scott_P said:

Danielle Blake - @abradacabla: This is a staffer for @LauraPidcockMP, attacking a Jewish editor of a Jewish paper for correctly pointing out Corbyn is the problem and obstacle to getting anything done regarding anti-Semitism in Labour.

Sorry to spoil the spin here but this is what he said.

______________________________________
We have to be honest & say that anti-semitism does exist in our party. At whatever level, it must be overcome to build trust again. But we’d be fools not to recognise that @stephenpollard is reckless & problematic: standing in the way of discussion & healing for political ends.
____________________________________

I'd say far worse about Stephen Pollard to be honest whilst saying plenty of good things about another Jewish journalist.

But yes clearly not marching to the beat of one of the most idiotic anti Corbyn journalists out there makes you a raging anti-semite, logic who needs logic we are trying to smear people here inform people here.

Yes. Jonathan Friedland was well worth listening to this morning. Stephen Pollard's prejudices eclipse anything Corbyn could come up with.

Nothing seems to damage Corbyn fatally and I suspect neither will this. A lot of his support base thinks Jews and the actions of Israel and Zionism are the same, so they are just tolerant of comments or actions or they just look the other way.

This sums the situation up nicely:

https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/977998385650298880

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Take back control of Australia.
https://twitter.com/andrewgregory/status/978220111961247744?s=21

Pretty similar to what Australian PM Malcolm Turnbull has said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43532750

Yes but he's the Australian PM commenting on the Australian team. Coming from the British PM it's not very tactful to say the least. Almost smacks of Schadenfreude.

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/lbcbreaking/status/978150943241003008?s=20

It is not an either/or choice, especially while the DUP remains the largest party in NI

Funny how you think being the (marginally) largest party is so vital in certain circumstances.

A majority of voters in NI did not vote for nationalist parties either, much like Scotland really!

ReggieCide said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Elliot said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sean_F said:

JosiasJessop said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

JosiasJessop said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Corbyn may think he is not technically anti Jewish but he is largely anti Israel, just as he is anti American and his support for the Palestinians and the Russians is clearly as a counterweight to them

the two.

Corbyn comes across to me as a passive antisemite. Someone who would never, ever think of himself as one, and is genuinely horrified that he's called one, yet his actions and words give succour to antisemites.

He's thick and dangerous.

That is quite possible. Even this so-called artwork at first glance seems more about masons than Jews, especially if the viewer is not attuned to anti-semitic tropes

Or it's possible to create antisemitic tropes to appeal to antisemites and 'hide' them behind masonic and other tropes?

Besides, as someone pointed out the other day, it's not even any good.

anyway.

One day those behind the Leave campaigns’ posters will have as much honesty about what they were aiming at.

But most Leave advocates are simply satisfied that they were better shots.

Cry me a river.

So your concern about the anti-Semitic mural is, as Corbynites believe, entirely insincere and party political. Noted.

You don't know me, and I have no desire to know you, so I'd be grateful if you'd stop speculating about my motivations.

er.

There were no ugly racial stereotypes in VoteLeave's materials. You can find individual supporters of the campaign that were engaged in ugliness, but the same is true of those on the Remain side arguing white Europeans were a "better fit" for integration than us brown people. I don't recall Sean ever making bigoted remarks. Not that that matters to your derangement on this issue.

Both Leave campaigns were centred on xenophobic lies. Leave advocates can't complain about the ugliness of others when they fell in behind those so happily.

you have to be a bigot to write that, don't you?

Meeks has no right to accuse others of bigotry when he is so often bigoted himself.

Pulpstar said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/lbcbreaking/status/978150943241003008?s=20

It is not an either/or choice, especially while the DUP remains the largest party in NI

Funny how you think being the (marginally) largest party is so vital in certain circumstances.

@HYUFD is incorrect..

Being largest party in NI is not relevant to the DUP's current power - It's more that they form a crucial part of the government. They'd have the same de facto power with 8 seats even if Sinn Fein had 10.

It is relevant that the main Unionist Party has more seats than the main Nationalist Party for preserving the Union and avoiding any referendum on unification with the Republic

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

See I’m not in a minority, time to shaft the DUP and Norn Iron. Cheerio Norn Iron, you’re getting reunited with the 26 counties.

LBC can reveal that more Brits would prioritise leaving the European Union than maintaining the United Kingdom in its current form.

Our poll with YouGov shows that 36% of people think leaving the EU is more of a priority than keeping Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom (29%).

And 71% of people that chose the EU over Northern Ireland voted Brexit.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/eu-referendum/brits-would-rather-leave-eu-than-keep-n-ireland/

No. First most will want to keep NI in the UK and have Brexit and secondly while the DUP remains the largest party in Northern Ireland it is an irrelevant discussion anyway however much a liberal non Unionist like you may wish to break up the Union we Conservative and Unionists will ensure that is not the case

Meanwhile, an overwhelming majority of Tory voters said they would prioritise leaving the EU over maintaining a United Kingdom - which very much goes against the party's full name - the Conservative and Unionist party.

Most Tory voters want to preserve the Union and have Brexit, hence the 90% of Scottish Tories who voted No in Scotland in 2014 and the 60% of UK Tories who voted Leave in 2016

This poll says otherwise.

The poll forced them to chose one or the other, HYFUD is arguing that they would have both - no doubt Tories are overwhelmingly in favour of keeping NI in the UK

True Unionists would give up Brexit to preserve the Union in a forced choice question.

As I said at the time, had I thought saying no to Brexit could guarantee the UK union, I woukd have voted no. But that is far from certain in any case

Plus the SNP lost almost half their MPs post Brexit and the DUP won most seats at the NI Assembly elections and a majority of NI MPs post Brexit too

The SNP lost 37.5% of their MPs, which is as close to 25% as it is 50%.

But if we’re talking about most MPs/MSPs which party won the most seats in Scotland at GE2017 and in Holyrood 2016?

63% of Scots did not vote for the SNP at GE2017 and the SNP lost their majority at Holyrood 2016

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

Apparently she recently applied to be a member of the MCC - proposed by Sir J Major and seconded by Mr D. Cameron.

Carolus_Rex said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Take back control of Australia.
https://twitter.com/andrewgregory/status/978220111961247744?s=21

Pretty similar to what Australian PM Malcolm Turnbull has said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43532750

Yes but he's the Australian PM commenting on the Australian team. Coming from the British PM it's not very tactful to say the least. Almost smacks of Schadenfreude.

I don't think too many voters in the UK will be concerned at May rubbing the noses of the Australian cricket team in it, they are not exactly modest and humble when it comes to beating England as they did in the series where similar incidents could have taken place

HYUFD said:

Carolus_Rex said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Take back control of Australia.
https://twitter.com/andrewgregory/status/978220111961247744?s=21

Pretty similar to what Australian PM Malcolm Turnbull has said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43532750

Yes but he's the Australian PM commenting on the Australian team. Coming from the British PM it's not very tactful to say the least. Almost smacks of Schadenfreude.

I don't think too many voters in the UK will be concerned at May rubbing the noses of the Australian cricket team in it, they are not exactly modest and humble when it comes to beating England as they did in the series where these incidents took place

Voters in the UK won't give a toss but it won't pay to piss off people we might want to be doing trade deals with in the near future.

Not that I expect it to make that much difference but why risk it in the first place?

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

I believe Gordon Brown was on record as being a fan of popular beat combo The Arctic Monkeys.

Carolus_Rex said:

HYUFD said:

Carolus_Rex said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Take back control of Australia.
https://twitter.com/andrewgregory/status/978220111961247744?s=21

Pretty similar to what Australian PM Malcolm Turnbull has said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43532750

Yes but he's the Australian PM commenting on the Australian team. Coming from the British PM it's not very tactful to say the least. Almost smacks of Schadenfreude.

I don't think too many voters in the UK will be concerned at May rubbing the noses of the Australian cricket team in it, they are not exactly modest and humble when it comes to beating England as they did in the series where these incidents took place

Voters in the UK won't give a toss but it won't pay to piss off people we might want to be doing trade deals with in the near future.

Not that I expect it to make that much difference but why risk it in the first place?

Given Turnbull has made basically exactly the same statement anyway before May did I don't quite see your logic? It is him May will be negotiating with not the Australian cricket captain.

May is basically reiterating the Australian PM's position (plus of course while a FTA with Australia would be nice it comes well below getting one with the EU, the USA, China, Saudi Arabia, Japan etc)

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

Apparently she recently applied to be a member of the MCC - proposed by Sir J Major and seconded by Mr D. Cameron.

Who proposed Cameron? He's never been a cricket fan, has he?

williamglenn said:

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

Apparently she recently applied to be a member of the MCC - proposed by Sir J Major and seconded by Mr D. Cameron.

Who proposed Cameron? He's never been a cricket fan, has he?

Dave’s a huge fan of cricket.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14595848

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

I believe Gordon Brown was on record as being a fan of popular beat combo The Arctic Monkeys.

That was one of the classic misheard, or possibly misinterpreted, comments, IIRC. Brown was asked about the group, who were popular at the time and said that it would wake one up. That was interpreted for some reason as that he had one of their pieces on his radio alarm.

https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/978226406109958144

Richard_Nabavi said:

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

Apparently she recently applied to be a member of the MCC - proposed by Sir J Major and seconded by Mr D. Cameron.

Are they going to let her in?

I'm going to take a wild guess that her application won't end up on the usual 30 year waiting list.

A good friend of mine joined the MCCC aged 21, and 20 years later is still waiting for the egg and bacon tie.

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Z, perhaps she was asked. She is on record as a cricket fan, after all.

Apparently she recently applied to be a member of the MCC - proposed by Sir J Major and seconded by Mr D. Cameron.

Who proposed Cameron? He's never been a cricket fan, has he?

Dave’s a huge fan of cricket.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14595848

"You get exhausted, you get completely fried, you make terrible decisions, so I hope no one begrudges me a few hours at the cricket."
Maybe DC should have spent more time at the cricket.

Quite

https://capx.co/labour-under-jeremy-corbyn-has-no-claim-to-moral-superiority/

Carolus_Rex said:

HYUFD said:

Carolus_Rex said:

HYUFD said:

Carolus_Rex said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Take back control of Australia.
https://twitter.com/andrewgregory/status/978220111961247744?s=21

Pretty similar to what Australian PM Malcolm Turnbull has said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43532750

Yes but he's the Australian PM commenting on the Australian team. Coming from the British PM it's not very tactful to say the least. Almost smacks of Schadenfreude.

I don't think too many voters in the UK will be concerned at May rubbing the noses of the Australian cricket team in it, they are not exactly modest and humble when it comes to beating England as they did in the series where these incidents took place

Voters in the UK won't give a toss but it won't pay to piss off people we might want to be doing trade deals with in the near future.

Not that I expect it to make that much difference but why risk it in the first place?

Given Turnbull has made basically exactly the same statement anyway before May did I don't quite see your logic? It is him May will be negotiating with not the Australian cricket captain.

May is basically reiterating the Australian PM's position (plus of course while a FTA with Australia would be nice it comes well below getting one with the EU, the USA, China, Saudi Arabia, Japan etc)

The logic is only that of the parent who calls his own child a monster but doesn't like it if someone else does.

I'm not making a big deal of this. I just think it's silly for politicians or their spokespeople to risk causing offence over matters that don't concern them.

Given the England cricket team may have lost the Ashes if the Australians cheated in the last series it does concern us actually

OldKingCole said:

welshowl said:

@OldKingCole

Well there was another go at at resolving it in 1689, where we agreed to look like a monarchy but under the bonnet became a republic. It's held since.

(Incidentally we're good at that sort of thing. The century before, the Cof E had bishops and a lot of Catholic looking hierarchy whilst being Protestant. Or nearer our own time, the Irish Free State was let go, but still part of the "Dominions of the Crown" for show, even though they had gained the right to go the whole hog - which they of course did starting notably by being neutral in 1939).

Like the analogy, but not sure it worked further down the scale. I’m told, for example, that my grandfather, who, although a CofE churchwarden came from a long line of non-conformists, objected to the (new) vicar putting candlesticks on the altar. That was about 1930.
And in 1964 my (originally Welsh Baptist) father objected strongly to incense being used at the CoE baptism service for my infant daughter.

Indeed. Funny how these things lingered for ages and ages, and for all I know still do.

The key to a long lasting settlement seems to be to keep much of the "visuality" of the old whilst actually doing something different. Both sides have a bit of a buy in then?

To use the Crown v Parliament; I guess the actual shift was decided at Naseby in 1645. There was no way back, in retrospect, for the return of an all powerful Crown after that., 1660 notwithstanding. Essentially the settlement was to give the Cavaliers their theatre whilst actually, in the ultimate analysis, giving power to Parliament. The Hanovarians were useful at least in that they reinforced that, because they were only Monarchs because Parliament said they were, because they had the "right" religion. They had to toe the line because that was their source of legitimacy.

Quite how we pull off a similar trick with Europe is another matter but something from our historical precedent would be useful I think.