politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP drops to just 1% in latest ICM poll
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https://twitter.com/BetteMidler/status/976306486379859968?s=20Tissue_Price said:This comes close to an Onion headline.
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/976236819502239745
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English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
https://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=200 -
Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
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But Corbyn Labour guarantees it will continue. As always, the far left are the best friends the Tories have.Foxy said:
Yep, real term falling wages. Its why everyone is looking to the exits. Grinding austerity both at home and at work just gets to be too much after 10 years.Benpointer said:
"...average 6% increase for staff like nurses, and hospital porters btw 2018 and 2021..."Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good news if true especially as inflation is down to 2.7% and likely to fall furtherTGOHF said:
Have I misunderstood this? It looks like less than 2% per annum? If so, it's less than projected inflation.
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If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion0 -
Sounds like we will be hearing a lot more about "D-1980", if the reports of the Skripals being poisoned by a powder in their car prove true (the three other "Novichoks" developed all being liquids).CarlottaVance said:English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
https://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=200 -
Good interview with lots of hitherto unknown details. Useful background information.CarlottaVance said:English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
ttps://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=200 -
Looking back it seems extraordinary that Harriet Harman and Chris Leslie backed the public sector pay restraint/cuts in 2015.SouthamObserver said:
But Corbyn Labour guarantees it will continue. As always, the far left are the best friends the Tories have.Foxy said:
Yep, real term falling wages. Its why everyone is looking to the exits. Grinding austerity both at home and at work just gets to be too much after 10 years.Benpointer said:
"...average 6% increase for staff like nurses, and hospital porters btw 2018 and 2021..."Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good news if true especially as inflation is down to 2.7% and likely to fall furtherTGOHF said:
Have I misunderstood this? It looks like less than 2% per annum? If so, it's less than projected inflation.0 -
From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.0 -
Acting Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Chancellor (as they were at the time) suggests that it was the politically difficult yet correct thing to do for the country.rkrkrk said:
Looking back it seems extraordinary that Harriet Harman and Chris Leslie backed the public sector pay restraint/cuts in 2015.SouthamObserver said:
But Corbyn Labour guarantees it will continue. As always, the far left are the best friends the Tories have.Foxy said:
Yep, real term falling wages. Its why everyone is looking to the exits. Grinding austerity both at home and at work just gets to be too much after 10 years.Benpointer said:
"...average 6% increase for staff like nurses, and hospital porters btw 2018 and 2021..."Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good news if true especially as inflation is down to 2.7% and likely to fall furtherTGOHF said:
Have I misunderstood this? It looks like less than 2% per annum? If so, it's less than projected inflation.0 -
Home Affairs Select committee saying transition period should be extended.
All those saying Brexit will be done and dusted by the next GE take note.0 -
Gove has been (uncharacteristically) caught napping on this one, its interesting how he blames Brussels on this but I am not sure fishing communities will see it this way. Mind you there arent many fishermen in his constituency, clever move by May putting him on this watch as yet again words will come to haunt him along with the rest of the BREXIT teamSouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.0 -
Not especially politically difficult since they were both on their way out!MarqueeMark said:
Acting Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Chancellor (as they were at the time) suggests that it was the politically difficult yet correct thing to do for the country.rkrkrk said:
Looking back it seems extraordinary that Harriet Harman and Chris Leslie backed the public sector pay restraint/cuts in 2015.0 -
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
Hence they could do the right thing.rkrkrk said:
Not especially politically difficult since they were both on their way out!MarqueeMark said:
Acting Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Chancellor (as they were at the time) suggests that it was the politically difficult yet correct thing to do for the country.rkrkrk said:
Looking back it seems extraordinary that Harriet Harman and Chris Leslie backed the public sector pay restraint/cuts in 2015.
Although at that point, Leslie wasn't on the way out. That said, characterising Corbyn's offering as "starry-eyed, hard left" probably meant that he was unlikely to want to continue in such a Shadow Cabinet0 -
And it is a good thing.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion0 -
Nigelb said:Nigelb said:
Or extend it to 2030 and wait for Leave voters to die offrkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?
0 -
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
None of those deals can come into force until the end of the transition period and they are unlikely to come into force immediately thereafter but that does not mean that lots of useful work can't be done in the interim. The obvious starting point will be deals already negotiated for the EU. There will be parts of them designed to protect industries which are not found in the UK. We can offer to remove those restrictions allowing access for their goods on favourable terms in exchange for the removal of something that is of interest to us.SouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
If people want to do a deal with us, then we invite them to provide a first draft of the trade agreement. They can use any existing EU deal as a starting point. We should expect that first draft to be angled in their favour, but if they want progress, we'd expect it to not take the piss. I suspect if they worked in good faith, we could be a long way down the road quite quickly.swing_voter said:
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Seems a natural course of things. UKIP achieved its key aim, has also lost its big beast, had leadership problems, and faces a financial challenge.
However, if we should end up remaining, I think it highly likely Farage will return to politics to found a new party with a rulebook designed to limit internal warfare/wrangling.
F1: as usual, I'll put up the pre-qualifying ramble on Friday.0 -
How come the Tories get to field 3 candidates?HYUFD said:0 -
All parties who are so terrible they required Laura Kuenssberg to have a bodyguard at their conference should disband...Big_G_NorthWales said:
The rise is 6.5% and costing 4 billion. There is a limit when massive extra funding is required for the NHS and social care.Benpointer said:
Big_G do you accept that 6% over the next three years is not a real increase at all, given the OBR is forecasting inflation at 2.2%, 1.8% then 2% over that period, which is 6.1% compounded?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you excluded from the deal FoxyFoxy said:
Yep, real term falling wages. Its why everyone is looking to the exits. Grinding austerity both at home and at work just gets to be too much after 10 years.Benpointer said:
"...average 6% increase for staff like nurses, and hospital porters btw 2018 and 2021..."Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good news if true especially as inflation is down to 2.7% and likely to fall furtherTGOHF said:
Have I misunderstood this? It looks like less than 2% per annum? If so, it's less than projected inflation.
PS Laura Kuenssberg's excited in tweet betrays her true Tory colours!
I am sure you are ready to critise those in labour who create the need for Laura Kuenssberg to have bodyguards at labour events
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/bbcs-laura-kuenssberg-get-bodyguard-tory-party-conference-155803196.html0 -
Farage has done his one big idea to death. Hard to see any appetite amongst the voters for the proposition "Brexit was so much fun the first time around, let's do it all again - only better!"Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Seems a natural course of things. UKIP achieved its key aim, has also lost its big beast, had leadership problems, and faces a financial challenge.
However, if we should end up remaining, I think it highly likely Farage will return to politics to found a new party with a rulebook designed to limit internal warfare/wrangling.
F1: as usual, I'll put up the pre-qualifying ramble on Friday.0 -
I am one of the posters here who is religiously active, and have never felt thatmy religion was being undermined.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
The countries and minority groups that are actively religious (Poland, Lithuania, Ireland) are places where that religion has been seen as part of national identity. In England (perhaps less so in other home countries) and in a number of the other countries, that was never such a part of identity politics.
I think it a shame in that whether one believes or not, knowledge of religious language, imagery and writings opens up a whole world of art and literature. The problem of athiesm is not that people will believe in nothing, but that they will believe in anything.0 -
Mr. Mark, "We've been betrayed!" or "They've trampled over democracy!" are reasonable rallying cries.
If the EU continues to have undue influence, NeoKIP would have some electoral prospects (if they bother to work out that FPTP is entirely different to PR, of course).0 -
Yes, lucid, judicious, and chillingly unapologetic - very much in the Werner von Braun tradition. The suggestion that it is possible to identify when a nerve gas was produced and by whom seems odd (at leat the latter), but if that's correct then it would clearly be helpful if the OPCW made it known.Sandpit said:
Good interview with lots of hitherto unknown details. Useful background information.CarlottaVance said:English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
ttps://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=200 -
Truer word rarely spokenSunil_Prasannan said:
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong!ydoethur said:
It really, really wasn't.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Last Jedi was better than The Force Awakens.ydoethur said:At 9.48 TSE announces there is a New Thread.
By 9.50 he has three comments on the said thread.
Hmmmm....
And he likes The Last Jedi and speaks French.
Case proved - it's a fix
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It has been rough for a lot of people, though if we could contemplate tough decisions elsewhere maybe it could have happened sooner.RoyalBlue said:I’m glad NHS staff are getting rises again. I remember canvassing for GE17 and somebody saying they normally voted Tory, but 7 years without a pay rise was a bit much.
I can’t say I blame them.0 -
I am not religious at all but I completely agree with the last paragraph. Christianity and its moral and ethical underpinnings are not only key to an understanding of our past and our culture but an important basis for such things today. As an atheist I think it is right that Personal and Social Education, which my son studies at school, gives Christian philosophy a prominent part in discussions and teaching. Whilst I am no fan of organised religion I struggle to see what is replacing it as a basis for a consensus on what is right and wrong.Foxy said:
I am one of the posters here who is religiously active, and have never felt thatmy religion was being undermined.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
The countries and minority groups that are actively religious (Poland, Lithuania, Ireland) are places where that religion has been seen as part of national identity. In England (perhaps less so in other home countries) and in a number of the other countries, that was never such a part of identity politics.
I think it a shame in that whether one believes or not, knowledge of religious language, imagery and writings opens up a whole world of art and literature. The problem of athiesm is not that people will believe in nothing, but that they will believe in anything.0 -
Craziness , that only works with guns.SandyRentool said:
If they want to protect people's information they shouldn't be gathering and harvesting people's information.williamglenn said:I don’t think Facebook will get away with this defence.
https://twitter.com/mikedelmoro/status/976198221251928064?s=210 -
Every one is entitled to a good week (for the most part) after months of bad ones. We'll see how next week goes. Things may be fishier than they appearsteve_garner said:So, Brexit Transition Deal, Inflation sharply down and NHS pay deal, the Government getting on with the job while Labour types talk about Corbyn's hat being fiddled with.
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I still think it far more niche than the UKIP proposition. I mean, how many people on here would want another decade of arguing about the Brexit settlement, and looking for ways to unravel elements of it, who they would seek to do it with, the various...actually, don't answer that!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Mark, "We've been betrayed!" or "They've trampled over democracy!" are reasonable rallying cries.
If the EU continues to have undue influence, NeoKIP would have some electoral prospects (if they bother to work out that FPTP is entirely different to PR, of course).0 -
Christianity has been around a long time and faced far worse than it currently faces and managed to survive and thrive - it should be able to overcome the forces of apathy or even attack. It obviously still can resonate, some of the best people I know are youngish Christians. If it intends to continue to do good, it needs to overcome it's challenges. If it cannot do that, well, is it doing its job?AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion0 -
The other leadership candidates could and should easily have ignored them, if they'd sensed the moodrkrkrk said:
Not especially politically difficult since they were both on their way out!MarqueeMark said:
Acting Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Chancellor (as they were at the time) suggests that it was the politically difficult yet correct thing to do for the country.rkrkrk said:
Looking back it seems extraordinary that Harriet Harman and Chris Leslie backed the public sector pay restraint/cuts in 2015.0 -
Inflation is forecast by the OBR to be falling to 2% by the end of the year which obviously means it will be more than 2% on average this year. 6% over 3 years will almost certainly be a freeze in real terms at best, probably a cut. I would be very surprised if the Unions have signed up to this unless there are significant add on's such as grading uplifts that are going to push average pay higher.rcs1000 said:
6% over three or four years doesn't sound that generous in real terms. It's quite possible it will be a real terms cut.TGOHF said:
We are likely to return to real wage growth (albeit extremely modest growth) in the next few months as inflation falls below wage growth. I really can't see the NHS staff accepting missing out on this.0 -
I'm not particularly concerned about the fall of religion in peoples lives. I am concerned about the fragmentation of society and community and a shared common set of values.kle4 said:
Christianity has been around a long time and faced far worse than it currently faces and managed to survive and thrive - it should be able to overcome the forces of apathy or even attack. It obviously still can resonate, some of the best people I know are youngish Christians. If it intends to continue to do good, it needs to overcome it's challenges.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion0 -
Seconded. Large amounts of Western culture make little sense without some grasp of Christianity and classical civilisation. By failing to teach these effectively we are cutting our children off from their own heritage.DavidL said:
I am not religious at all but I completely agree with the last paragraph. Christianity and its moral and ethical underpinnings are not only key to an understanding of our past and our culture but an important basis for such things today. As an atheist I think it is right that Personal and Social Education, which my son studies at school, gives Christian philosophy a prominent part in discussions and teaching. Whilst I am no fan of organised religion I struggle to see what is replacing it as a basis for a consensus on what is right and wrong.Foxy said:
I am one of the posters here who is religiously active, and have never felt thatmy religion was being undermined.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
The countries and minority groups that are actively religious (Poland, Lithuania, Ireland) are places where that religion has been seen as part of national identity. In England (perhaps less so in other home countries) and in a number of the other countries, that was never such a part of identity politics.
I think it a shame in that whether one believes or not, knowledge of religious language, imagery and writings opens up a whole world of art and literature. The problem of athiesm is not that people will believe in nothing, but that they will believe in anything.0 -
I found the interview surprising. If I was him I would be very careful about what was in my tea. It will not suit Putin to have this kind of comment being made from an apparently credible source.NickPalmer said:
Yes, lucid, judicious, and chillingly unapologetic - very much in the Werner von Braun tradition. The suggestion that it is possible to identify when a nerve gas was produced and by whom seems odd (at leat the latter), but if that's correct then it would clearly be helpful if the OPCW made it known.Sandpit said:
Good interview with lots of hitherto unknown details. Useful background information.CarlottaVance said:English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
ttps://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=200 -
Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.0 -
Just on a technicality, if inflation is under 2% by the end of the year, then a pay rise of 2% over that period is above inflation. Averaging the monthly inflation figures to produce a higher figure doesn't make sense.DavidL said:
Inflation is forecast by the OBR to be falling to 2% by the end of the year which obviously means it will be more than 2% on average this year. 6% over 3 years will almost certainly be a freeze in real terms at best, probably a cut. I would be very surprised if the Unions have signed up to this unless there are significant add on's such as grading uplifts that are going to push average pay higher.rcs1000 said:
6% over three or four years doesn't sound that generous in real terms. It's quite possible it will be a real terms cut.TGOHF said:
0 -
Facebook will provide.Slackbladder said:
I'm not particularly concerned about the fall of religion in peoples lives. I am concerned about the fragmentation of society and community and a shared common set of values.kle4 said:
Christianity has been around a long time and faced far worse than it currently faces and managed to survive and thrive - it should be able to overcome the forces of apathy or even attack. It obviously still can resonate, some of the best people I know are youngish Christians. If it intends to continue to do good, it needs to overcome it's challenges.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
More seriously, religion us very useful for such things, for good and Ill, but not essential, so I would like to be optimistic even if the old Sci fi idea of utopic religion free future feels unrealistic. And boring. Plus there's thisRoyalBlue said:
Seconded. Large amounts of Western culture make little sense without some grasp of Christianity and classical civilisation. By failing to teach these effectively we are cutting our children off from their own heritage.DavidL said:
I am not religious at all but I completelyFoxy said:
I am one of the posters here who is religiously active, and have never felt thatmy religion was being undermined.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
The countries and minority groups that are actively religious (Poland, Lithuania, Ireland) are places where that religion has been seen as part of national identity. In England (perhaps less so in other home countries) and in a number of the other countries, that was never such a part of identity politics.
I think it a shame in that whether one believes or not, knowledge of religious language, imagery and writings opens up a whole world of art and literature. The problem of athiesm is not that people will believe in nothing, but that they will believe in anything.0 -
In Denmark when I studied maths, all students in every faculty were required to take a course in philosophy, which gave an introduction to every major school of thought and what they recommended as approaches to life. I thought it interesting and it's left traces in my thinking (I really liked the Stoics), though I have to say that nearly everyone I knew thought it a tiresome distraction from their main courses.RoyalBlue said:
Seconded. Large amounts of Western culture make little sense without some grasp of Christianity and classical civilisation. By failing to teach these effectively we are cutting our children off from their own heritage.0 -
'Facebook will provide.'
A future of cat memes, recycled minion quotes and fake news. Just what we need.
0 -
I think the other leadership candidates all opposed the pay cuts.kle4 said:
The other leadership candidates could and should easily have ignored them, if they'd sensed the moodrkrkrk said:
Not especially politically difficult since they were both on their way out!MarqueeMark said:
Acting Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Chancellor (as they were at the time) suggests that it was the politically difficult yet correct thing to do for the country.rkrkrk said:
Looking back it seems extraordinary that Harriet Harman and Chris Leslie backed the public sector pay restraint/cuts in 2015.0 -
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
0 -
The important thing about the NHS settlement is that it is fully funded on top of the existing NHS budget. Conceding that principle has signalled the end of public sector austerity.alex. said:
Just on a technicality, if inflation is under 2% by the end of the year, then a pay rise of 2% over that period is above inflation. Averaging the monthly inflation figures to produce a higher figure doesn't make sense.DavidL said:
Inflation is forecast by the OBR to be falling to 2% by the end of the year which obviously means it will be more than 2% on average this year. 6% over 3 years will almost certainly be a freeze in real terms at best, probably a cut. I would be very surprised if the Unions have signed up to this unless there are significant add on's such as grading uplifts that are going to push average pay higher.rcs1000 said:
6% over three or four years doesn't sound that generous in real terms. It's quite possible it will be a real terms cut.TGOHF said:
(It's also notable that the lowest paid will receive increments well in excess of the 6%.)
0 -
That John Reid quote was slightly taken out of context and wasn't quite as naive as it is now presented.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
There is also a body of work which is interesting by authors such as Frank Ledwidge and Jack Fairweather which give a sobering view of our military escapades in Afghan and Iraq.0 -
More lawsuits from various Trump paramours...
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/20/trump-sex-scandal-lawsuits-daniels-4767280 -
For those, like me, who do not welcome even a day of taxation without representation - is there a case to retain representation in the EU parliament?
Based on a precedent from Gibraltar...?
https://twitter.com/georgeperetzqc/status/9761528401284014080 -
I don't agree with that because you generally only get your wage increase once, not every month. So if NHS staff get 2% this month when inflation is at 2.7% they have suffered a 0.7% fall in their earnings over the last 12 months. Or, to put it another way, their wages will be 0.7% less in real terms than they were 12 months ago (if that is when they got their last increase).alex. said:
Just on a technicality, if inflation is under 2% by the end of the year, then a pay rise of 2% over that period is above inflation. Averaging the monthly inflation figures to produce a higher figure doesn't make sense.DavidL said:
Inflation is forecast by the OBR to be falling to 2% by the end of the year which obviously means it will be more than 2% on average this year. 6% over 3 years will almost certainly be a freeze in real terms at best, probably a cut. I would be very surprised if the Unions have signed up to this unless there are significant add on's such as grading uplifts that are going to push average pay higher.rcs1000 said:
6% over three or four years doesn't sound that generous in real terms. It's quite possible it will be a real terms cut.TGOHF said:
If by December that inflation rate has fallen to 2% you have not maintained your wages in real terms over the 9 months of this year. That will only happen if the next wage increase matches or exceeds inflation over the previous 12 months.0 -
Did they? Mind playing tricks on merkrkrk said:
I think the other leadership candidates all opposed the pay cuts.kle4 said:
The other leadership candidates could and should easily have ignored them, if they'd sensed the moodrkrkrk said:
Not especially politically difficult since they were both on their way out!MarqueeMark said:
Acting Leader of the Opposition and Shadow Chancellor (as they were at the time) suggests that it was the politically difficult yet correct thing to do for the country.rkrkrk said:
Looking back it seems extraordinary that Harriet Harman and Chris Leslie backed the public sector pay restraint/cuts in 2015.
And the submission of all personal data to the church/facebook. No need for confessional booths.Slackbladder said:'Facebook will provide.'
A future of cat memes, recycled minion quotes and fake news. Just what we need.0 -
I'm not sure the chemist needs to be apologetic, he was only doing his job and I'd imagine that bad things happened to those who questioned authority in the old Soviet Union.NickPalmer said:
Yes, lucid, judicious, and chillingly unapologetic - very much in the Werner von Braun tradition. The suggestion that it is possible to identify when a nerve gas was produced and by whom seems odd (at leat the latter), but if that's correct then it would clearly be helpful if the OPCW made it known.Sandpit said:
Good interview with lots of hitherto unknown details. Useful background information.CarlottaVance said:English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
ttps://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=20
My assumption was that each batch of the substance was subtly different, so a sample of it could provide a batch number that would have been recorded somewhere at the time it was made. Hopefully the OPCW have this information.
0 -
There were many truly spectacular lies during the Blair era, including the dodgy dossier and the 45 minutes nonsense, but I have always thought John Reid's statement was right up there with the best of them.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.0 -
On topic, UKIP is derlict/dormant but it’s segment of the political market is not deceased.
If mass immigration continues post-Brexit with no-one else taking its side of the (inevitably) ongoing culture wars, then something else will probably take its place.0 -
I always enjoyed Stoic philosophy. It greatly influenced my thinking too.NickPalmer said:
In Denmark when I studied maths, all students in every faculty were required to take a course in philosophy, which gave an introduction to every major school of thought and what they recommended as approaches to life. I thought it interesting and it's left traces in my thinking (I really liked the Stoics), though I have to say that nearly everyone I knew thought it a tiresome distraction from their main courses.RoyalBlue said:
Seconded. Large amounts of Western culture make little sense without some grasp of Christianity and classical civilisation. By failing to teach these effectively we are cutting our children off from their own heritage.0 -
Morning all.
Now that the realities of "delivering Brexit" are becoming clear, if we were doing it to any other country other than ourselves it would be labelled sanctions0 -
Yes, but he will always be remembered for it. It was simply too prophetic for what started to happen just days later.TOPPING said:
That John Reid quote was slightly taken out of context and wasn't quite as naive as it is now presented.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
There is also a body of work which is interesting by authors such as Frank Ledwidge and Jack Fairweather which give a sobering view of our military escapades in Afghan and Iraq.0 -
It's redundant. We are no longer as ignorant of the world and needing a Sky Fairy to do it all for us.kle4 said:
Christianity has been around a long time and faced far worse than it currently faces and managed to survive and thrive - it should be able to overcome the forces of apathy or even attack. It obviously still can resonate, some of the best people I know are youngish Christians. If it intends to continue to do good, it needs to overcome it's challenges. If it cannot do that, well, is it doing its job?AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
Christianity can overcome attack indeed, attack though is very different to apathy. If people don't care about it anymore then there's no reason the Christian God can't face the same fate as Zeus, Thor or many other gods.0 -
I agree it is difficult to assess what long-lasting benefits our presence in Afghanistan really delivered.Dura_Ace said:
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.0 -
It's a major worry, we are seeing polarisation of Western society where groups of people have no common bond and values, who spend their time talking only to themselves and shouting past their 'opponents' rather than trying to understand. This leads to extreme political parties as we've seen in Europe, or extremists embedding themselves in the existing political structure, as we've seen with Corbyn and Labour or Trump and the Republicans.Slackbladder said:
I'm not particularly concerned about the fall of religion in peoples lives. I am concerned about the fragmentation of society and community and a shared common set of values.kle4 said:
Christianity has been around a long time and faced far worse than it currently faces and managed to survive and thrive - it should be able to overcome the forces of apathy or even attack. It obviously still can resonate, some of the best people I know are youngish Christians. If it intends to continue to do good, it needs to overcome it's challenges.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion0 -
Afghanistan is/was always going to fucked up. Iraq was avoidable, but there would be no way post 9/11 that any country could afford a lawless base for mass terrorism which Afghanistan was.Dura_Ace said:
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.0 -
Mr. kle4, I'm watching Babylon 5 (for the first time) on Pick [weekdays at 8pm]. The episode Intersections In Real Time was on last time. Whole episode was Sheridan (leader of Babylon 5) being interrogated. Did an excellent job of portraying the physical and psychological torment. He can get out, but has to renounce his fight (against a tyrant) and confess to subversion.
A key part of the script is the destruction of objective truth. If the interrogator says it's night, it's night. If he says it's morning, it's morning. Very reminiscent of Room 101 from 1984. Sheridan's punished for disagreeing. Truth comes from authority, not one's own observations.
The whole show, despite being 20 years old, is incredibly timely. A man (Count Dankula on Twitter) was yesterday found guilty of a crime, in a court in the UK (Scottish, I think), because he was 'grossly offensive' by training his pug to give a Nazi salute. Meanwhile, Hope Not Hate are one step away from calling for books to be burnt.
https://twitter.com/hopenothate/status/9756840292269137920 -
It would be better politics for the Conservatives to consistently grant 2% pay rises for NHS staff all the way to GE2022, and then argue that Corbyn’s fiscal incontinence would put that all at risk.DavidL said:
I don't agree with that because you generally only get your wage increase once, not every month. So if NHS staff get 2% this month when inflation is at 2.7% they have suffered a 0.7% fall in their earnings over the last 12 months. Or, to put it another way, their wages will be 0.7% less in real terms than they were 12 months ago (if that is when they got their last increase).alex. said:
Just on a technicality, if inflation is under 2% by the end of the year, then a pay rise of 2% over that period is above inflation. Averaging the monthly inflation figures to produce a higher figure doesn't make sense.DavidL said:
Inflation is forecast by the OBR to be falling to 2% by the end of the year which obviously means it will be more than 2% on average this year. 6% over 3 years will almost certainly be a freeze in real terms at best, probably a cut. I would be very surprised if the Unions have signed up to this unless there are significant add on's such as grading uplifts that are going to push average pay higher.rcs1000 said:
6% over three or four years doesn't sound that generous in real terms. It's quite possible it will be a real terms cut.TGOHF said:
If by December that inflation rate has fallen to 2% you have not maintained your wages in real terms over the 9 months of this year. That will only happen if the next wage increase matches or exceeds inflation over the previous 12 months.0 -
Beats sheep every timeydoethur said:
1) Why would Melania wish to swallowtp the photographs? Would she be allowed soup with it?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is either going to beydoethur said:
It's this thread and funny shenanigans thereon that we're talking about.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a thread on Trump's dick pics.ydoethur said:
Of course, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was starting writing my thread for Sunday and saw Mike had just published a new thread.ydoethur said:At 9.48 TSE announces there is a New Thread.
By 9.50 he has three comments on the said thread.
Hmmmm....
And he likes The Last Jedi and speaks French.
Case proved - it's a fix
All you need is to tell us you were adding pineapple to your pizza and your claim will carry complete conviction.
What will the title be? Trump refuses to touch pickled gherkins because they make him feel inadequate?
1) Trump's dick pics might be hard to swallow for Melania
2) I did a betting thread on the size of Trump's todger back in 2016, you maybe a winner soon
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/04/03/this-betting-market-sums-up-the-weirdness-of-the-gop-nominee-race/
3) If the pics do exist I hope Trump's hands are in shot, they'll make it look bigger.
2) any bet over an inch long is optimistic.
3) Hand size is irrelevant. I have small hands for man. But it's not how small they are to start with, it's how far you can stretch that counts. I am pleased to announce that after much hard practice on the organ I can stretch mine 11 inches.
I find pianos useful too, but you don't get to flex as much on them.0 -
what was really scandalous was that British troops already in Iraq were systematically underequipped and funded to fight this new war as the Generals scented a few more medals, battles and boys own adventures and told the Politicians the military could fight two difficult counter insurgencies at the same time....TOPPING said:
That John Reid quote was slightly taken out of context and wasn't quite as naive as it is now presented.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
There is also a body of work which is interesting by authors such as Frank Ledwidge and Jack Fairweather which give a sobering view of our military escapades in Afghan and Iraq.0 -
-
Last bbc piece I read on it suggested the taliban are active on more areas than any time since 2001. Great.Casino_Royale said:
I agree it is difficult to assess what long-lasting benefits our presence in Afghanistan really delivered.Dura_Ace said:
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.0 -
I think it's more of an issue to think about what would have happened if we didn't go in. if the Taliban and Al-Queda had been let to get stronger.Casino_Royale said:
I agree it is difficult to assess what long-lasting benefits our presence in Afghanistan really delivered.Dura_Ace said:
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
It's been bloody and a mess, but they have been contained to a degree.0 -
“That was before we became this dark, dystopian data company that gave the world Trump,” a former Cambridge Analytica employee who I’ll call Paul tells me. “It was back when we were still just a psychological warfare firm.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy?page=with:img-20 -
Bored to tears with it by now , Tories can keep their faux outrage and keep on supporting their chosen Dictator's.CarlottaVance said:English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
https://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=200 -
Weaselly words do not excuse this toerag from being to blame for this, just pretending to try and save his own skin. He is up to his neck in the decision.swing_voter said:
Gove has been (uncharacteristically) caught napping on this one, its interesting how he blames Brussels on this but I am not sure fishing communities will see it this way. Mind you there arent many fishermen in his constituency, clever move by May putting him on this watch as yet again words will come to haunt him along with the rest of the BREXIT teamSouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.0 -
F1: bad news. The weather forecast for race day has improved. Also, Ladbrokes has its markets up.
Edited extra bit: now storms and rain predicted for qualifying.0 -
It’s an absolutely disgusting post, which is truly shocking - even for them. I never thought I’d see them plumb those depths.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, I'm watching Babylon 5 (for the first time) on Pick [weekdays at 8pm]. The episode Intersections In Real Time was on last time. Whole episode was Sheridan (leader of Babylon 5) being interrogated. Did an excellent job of portraying the physical and psychological torment. He can get out, but has to renounce his fight (against a tyrant) and confess to subversion.
A key part of the script is the destruction of objective truth. If the interrogator says it's night, it's night. If he says it's morning, it's morning. Very reminiscent of Room 101 from 1984. Sheridan's punished for disagreeing. Truth comes from authority, not one's own observations.
The whole show, despite being 20 years old, is incredibly timely. A man (Count Dankula on Twitter) was yesterday found guilty of a crime, in a court in the UK (Scottish, I think), because he was 'grossly offensive' by training his pug to give a Nazi salute. Meanwhile, Hope Not Hate are one step away from calling for books to be burnt.
https://twitter.com/hopenothate/status/975684029226913792
I note they haven’t listed any examples of the titles that cause them “concern”, and are repeating tired old canards about not providing a platform, or providing credibility, so can only surmise they simply don’t like the politics.
If they don’t like the Sun or the Mail, and draw no distinction between that and David Irving, then they will have no issue banning Max Hastings, Lawrence James, Ian Fleming, or David Starkey.0 -
I want to believe you. I haven’t researched enough of it thoroughly enough to be sure, though.Slackbladder said:
I think it's more of an issue to think about what would have happened if we didn't go in. if the Taliban and Al-Queda had been let to get stronger.Casino_Royale said:
I agree it is difficult to assess what long-lasting benefits our presence in Afghanistan really delivered.Dura_Ace said:
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
It's been bloody and a mess, but they have been contained to a degree.0 -
I'm an atheist myself, Id broadly agree if not put it quite that way or as bluntly, about not needing such things. The key thing is if it cannot convince people of its need then it will be because it is not needed. But I am not seeking to hasten it's demise, or ignore the good as well as the bad it has aided.Philip_Thompson said:
It's redundant. We are no longer as ignorant of the world and needing a Sky Fairy to do it all for us.kle4 said:
Christianity has been around a long time and faced far worse than it currently faces and managed to survive and thrive - it should be able to overcome the forces of apathy or even attack. It obviously still can resonate, some of the best people I know are youngish Christians. If it intends to continue to do good, it needs to overcome it's challenges. If it cannot do that, well, is it doing its job?AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
Christianity can overcome attack indeed, attack though is very different to apathy. If people don't care about it anymore then there's no reason the Christian God can't face the same fate as Zeus, Thor or many other gods.0 -
David, you would need someone with a brain to negotiate that though. You forgetting we have a load of tumshies over there, getting spanked the EU. I would not trust them to be able to tie their shoelaces never mind negotiate a deal.DavidL said:
None of those deals can come into force until the end of the transition period and they are unlikely to come into force immediately thereafter but that does not mean that lots of useful work can't be done in the interim. The obvious starting point will be deals already negotiated for the EU. There will be parts of them designed to protect industries which are not found in the UK. We can offer to remove those restrictions allowing access for their goods on favourable terms in exchange for the removal of something that is of interest to us.SouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
Can I interest you in a used bridge Sir , a real bargain and you would be stupid not to buy it.MarqueeMark said:
If people want to do a deal with us, then we invite them to provide a first draft of the trade agreement. They can use any existing EU deal as a starting point. We should expect that first draft to be angled in their favour, but if they want progress, we'd expect it to not take the piss. I suspect if they worked in good faith, we could be a long way down the road quite quickly.swing_voter said:
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
They're all just upset that others used their methods for political causes with which they disagree.logical_song said:“That was before we became this dark, dystopian data company that gave the world Trump,” a former Cambridge Analytica employee who I’ll call Paul tells me. “It was back when we were still just a psychological warfare firm.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy?page=with:img-2
Obama was all over "Big Data", so was David Cameron. But when Trump and Leave do the same it's evil.
Hopefully it's serious for Facebook though, their share price has tanked the past two days as the mask has started slipping.0 -
Indeed. i think some of the example they actually do give might be reasonable to have concern over, but it's idiotic to now lump all these things together.Casino_Royale said:
It’s an absolutely disgusting post, which is truly shocking - even for them. I never thought I’d see them plumb those depths.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, I'm watching Babylon 5 (for the first time) on Pick [weekdays at 8pm]. The episode Intersections In Real Time was on last time. Whole episode was Sheridan (leader of Babylon 5) being interrogated. Did an excellent job of portraying the physical and psychological torment. He can get out, but has to renounce his fight (against a tyrant) and confess to subversion.
A key part of the script is the destruction of objective truth. If the interrogator says it's night, it's night. If he says it's morning, it's morning. Very reminiscent of Room 101 from 1984. Sheridan's punished for disagreeing. Truth comes from authority, not one's own observations.
The whole show, despite being 20 years old, is incredibly timely. A man (Count Dankula on Twitter) was yesterday found guilty of a crime, in a court in the UK (Scottish, I think), because he was 'grossly offensive' by training his pug to give a Nazi salute. Meanwhile, Hope Not Hate are one step away from calling for books to be burnt.
https://twitter.com/hopenothate/status/975684029226913792
I note they haven’t listed any examples of the titles that cause them “concern”, and are repeating tired old canards about not providing a platform, or providing credibility, so can only surmise they simply don’t like the politics.
If they don’t like the Sun or the Mail, and draw no distinction between that and David Irving, then they will have no issue banning Max Hastings, Lawrence James, Ian Fleming, or David Starkey.
They should bring up individual books and let people decide, not an nebulous 'racist/nazi' books which could mean anything,0 -
That is understating it to put it mildly.rcs1000 said:
6% over three or four years doesn't sound that generous in real terms. It's quite possible it will be a real terms cut.TGOHF said:
Firstly, in terms of generousity generally, it's hardly a relaxation of the public sector pay squeeze. Even a real terms freeze would just be a case of maintaining rather than tightening further an already vice-like grip.
Second, it is extremely likely that it will turn out to be further a real terms cut. That's because the deal is fixed, so everything hangs on whether the BoE will manage to keep inflation at within it's long term target of 2% per annum. If it doesn't, then it's a cut. And the BoE's record in keeping to its inflation target is pretty poor, underpredicting CPI inflation more often than it overpredicts it. As for the OBR, back in May 2017, it predicted that CPI inflation would reach 2.4% by the end of 2017, whereas it reached 3.0%.
So, it's a mild further tightening of already extreme austerity as it affects NHS pay. All you can say in its favour is that it's not the sharp further tightening that the Government had previously planned for.0 -
Deal.malcolmg said:
Can I interest you in a used bridge Sir , a real bargain and you would be stupid not to buy it.MarqueeMark said:
If people want to do a deal with us, then we invite them to provide a first draft of the trade agreement. They can use any existing EU deal as a starting point. We should expect that first draft to be angled in their favour, but if they want progress, we'd expect it to not take the piss. I suspect if they worked in good faith, we could be a long way down the road quite quickly.swing_voter said:
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
The same here to be true. But it's very much a case of 'what ifs' here I feel. the world is a mixed up stupid brutal place.Casino_Royale said:
I want to believe you. I haven’t researched enough of it thoroughly enough to be sure, though.Slackbladder said:
I think it's more of an issue to think about what would have happened if we didn't go in. if the Taliban and Al-Queda had been let to get stronger.Casino_Royale said:
I agree it is difficult to assess what long-lasting benefits our presence in Afghanistan really delivered.Dura_Ace said:
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
It's been bloody and a mess, but they have been contained to a degree.0 -
As an atheist myself I was almost surprised by my quite sad reaction to that. Went to a Methodist (I think) church when I was younger, I'd probably describe them as wishy washy Christians (opposite to fundamentalists) and to be honest I don't have anything but nice things to say about everyone involved with it, they all seem to be kind, understanding and happy to give up their time for others. Whilst I have seen and heard about plenty of bad things happening across the world relating to religion my personal experiences have actually been pretty good.Foxy said:
I am one of the posters here who is religiously active, and have never felt thatmy religion was being undermined.AndyJS said:
If you spend 50 years undermining Christianity it's no surprise that this happens.IanB2 said:Talking of falling popularity:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/christianity-non-christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion
The countries and minority groups that are actively religious (Poland, Lithuania, Ireland) are places where that religion has been seen as part of national identity. In England (perhaps less so in other home countries) and in a number of the other countries, that was never such a part of identity politics.
I think it a shame in that whether one believes or not, knowledge of religious language, imagery and writings opens up a whole world of art and literature. The problem of athiesm is not that people will believe in nothing, but that they will believe in anything.
In fairness from what I understand it was the 'Gas the Jews' part rather than the dog doing a nazi salute.Morris_Dancer said:
The whole show, despite being 20 years old, is incredibly timely. A man (Count Dankula on Twitter) was yesterday found guilty of a crime, in a court in the UK (Scottish, I think), because he was 'grossly offensive' by training his pug to give a Nazi salute.
0 -
Run along, laddie. Some of us have a higher boredom threshold for the important stuff than you....malcolmg said:
Can I interest you in a used bridge Sir , a real bargain and you would be stupid not to buy it.MarqueeMark said:
If people want to do a deal with us, then we invite them to provide a first draft of the trade agreement. They can use any existing EU deal as a starting point. We should expect that first draft to be angled in their favour, but if they want progress, we'd expect it to not take the piss. I suspect if they worked in good faith, we could be a long way down the road quite quickly.swing_voter said:
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
Another quote: This story isn’t about cunning Dominic Cummings finding a few loopholes in the Electoral Commission’s rules. Finding a way to spend an extra million quid here. Or (as the Observer has also discovered )underdeclaring the costs of his physicists on the spending returns by £43,000. This story is not even about what appears to be covert coordination between Vote Leave and Leave.EU in their use of AggregateIQ and Cambridge Analytica. It’s about how a motivated US billionaire – Mercer and his chief ideologue, Bannon – helped to bring about the biggest constitutional change to Britain in a century.Sandpit said:
They're all just upset that others used their methods for political causes with which they disagree.logical_song said:“That was before we became this dark, dystopian data company that gave the world Trump,” a former Cambridge Analytica employee who I’ll call Paul tells me. “It was back when we were still just a psychological warfare firm.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy?page=with:img-2
Obama was all over "Big Data", so was David Cameron. But when Trump and Leave do the same it's evil.
Hopefully it's serious for Facebook though, their share price has tanked the past two days as the mask has started slipping.0 -
I heard a reporter on the BBC earlier describe the 6% payrise as an 'investment' in the NHS. Gordon Brown would have been proud.0
-
Did someone get out of wrong side of bed this morning , or just Tory humour bypass.MarqueeMark said:
Run along, laddie. Some of us have a higher boredom threshold for the important stuff than you....malcolmg said:
Can I interest you in a used bridge Sir , a real bargain and you would be stupid not to buy it.MarqueeMark said:
If people want to do a deal with us, then we invite them to provide a first draft of the trade agreement. They can use any existing EU deal as a starting point. We should expect that first draft to be angled in their favour, but if they want progress, we'd expect it to not take the piss. I suspect if they worked in good faith, we could be a long way down the road quite quickly.swing_voter said:
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
The average pay increase was 2.9% in 2017, a real terms rise of just 0.1% so it is not as if NHS workers will be that different from the rest of the workforce in not getting huge above inflation pay risesWulfrun_Phil said:
That is understating it to put it mildly.rcs1000 said:
6% over three or four years doesn't sound that generous in real terms. It's quite possible it will be a real terms cut.TGOHF said:
Firstly, in terms of generousity generally, it's hardly a relaxation of the public sector pay squeeze. Even a real terms freeze would just be a case of maintaining rather than tightening further an already vice-like grip.
Second, it is extremely likely that it will turn out to be further a real terms cut. That's because the deal is fixed, so everything hangs on whether the BoE will manage to keep inflation at within it's long term target of 2% per annum. If it doesn't, then it's a cut. And the BoE's record in keeping to its inflation target is pretty poor, underpredicting CPI inflation more often than it overpredicts it. As for the OBR, back in May 2017, it predicted that CPI inflation would reach 2.4% by the end of 2017, whereas it reached 3.0%.
So, it's a mild further tightening of already extreme austerity as it affects NHS pay. All you can say in its favour is that it's not the sharp further tightening that the Government had previously planned for.
https://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/issues/july-online-2017/average-uk-salaries-rise-by-0-1-in-real-terms-in-2017/0 -
Yes the allies "forgot" Afghan to head to Iraq and then, once that fell down around their heads, they thought that Afghan would be a get out stakes for British military prowess.swing_voter said:
what was really scandalous was that British troops already in Iraq were systematically underequipped and funded to fight this new war as the Generals scented a few more medals, battles and boys own adventures and told the Politicians the military could fight two difficult counter insurgencies at the same time....TOPPING said:
That John Reid quote was slightly taken out of context and wasn't quite as naive as it is now presented.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
There is also a body of work which is interesting by authors such as Frank Ledwidge and Jack Fairweather which give a sobering view of our military escapades in Afghan and Iraq.0 -
Mr. Rentool, did they mention what rate of return they were expecting on the investment?
Mr. Royale, I'm not surprised. Must be about a decade since they were starting fires and making less than civil chants about Nick Griffin's QT performance. They've just expanded their range of Wrongthink material to be condemned.0 -
"Bored to tears with it..."malcolmg said:
Did someone get out of wrong side of bed this morning , or just Tory humour bypass.MarqueeMark said:
Run along, laddie. Some of us have a higher boredom threshold for the important stuff than you....malcolmg said:
Can I interest you in a used bridge Sir , a real bargain and you would be stupid not to buy it.MarqueeMark said:
If people want to do a deal with us, then we invite them to provide a first draft of the trade agreement. They can use any existing EU deal as a starting point. We should expect that first draft to be angled in their favour, but if they want progress, we'd expect it to not take the piss. I suspect if they worked in good faith, we could be a long way down the road quite quickly.swing_voter said:
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?0 -
Oh only the removal and death of Bin Laden and the Taliban no longer in government.Casino_Royale said:
I agree it is difficult to assess what long-lasting benefits our presence in Afghanistan really delivered.Dura_Ace said:
Even though it was supposed to be the good war Afghanistan turned out to be a bigger shit show than Iraq. The UK took way more KIAs for an arguably more fucked up result.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, I’m reading Richard Dannatt’s fascinating new book at the moment “Boots on the Ground”.
The section on Afghanistan (where I am in the book now) makes some pretty sobering reading.
John Reid on 23rd April 2006: “We would be perfectly happy to leave in three years time without having fired a shot.”
Just six months later, by October, just one battalion- 3rd parachute regiment - had fired 479,000 rounds of ammunition.
By August 2009, for all British forces up to that date, it was up to 12 million.
The former was of course the main aim following 9/11 after Bin Laden planned it from there, without 9/11 Afghanistan would not have been invaded0 -
Christopher Steele, of Trump dossier fame, wrote a report in 2016 detailing Russian efforts to fund right-wing groups in the UK and elsewhere in Europe with the goal of destroying the EU.logical_song said:
Another quote: This story isn’t about cunning Dominic Cummings finding a few loopholes in the Electoral Commission’s rules. Finding a way to spend an extra million quid here. Or (as the Observer has also discovered )underdeclaring the costs of his physicists on the spending returns by £43,000. This story is not even about what appears to be covert coordination between Vote Leave and Leave.EU in their use of AggregateIQ and Cambridge Analytica. It’s about how a motivated US billionaire – Mercer and his chief ideologue, Bannon – helped to bring about the biggest constitutional change to Britain in a century.Sandpit said:
They're all just upset that others used their methods for political causes with which they disagree.logical_song said:“That was before we became this dark, dystopian data company that gave the world Trump,” a former Cambridge Analytica employee who I’ll call Paul tells me. “It was back when we were still just a psychological warfare firm.”
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy?page=with:img-2
Obama was all over "Big Data", so was David Cameron. But when Trump and Leave do the same it's evil.
Hopefully it's serious for Facebook though, their share price has tanked the past two days as the mask has started slipping.0 -
0
-
Putin was for SINDY, wasn’t he.....malcolmg said:
Bored to tears with it by now , Tories can keep their faux outrage and keep on supporting their chosen Dictator's.CarlottaVance said:English version of that interview with Russian scientist involved in development of suspected Salisbury nerve agent:
https://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/976223787564838914?s=200 -
It is indeed now very boring, Tories doing hee haw about it, and hoping it will go away. We have had multiple supposed inventors of Novichok earning a crust over the last few weeks yet not a peep from our own government.MarqueeMark said:
"Bored to tears with it..."malcolmg said:
Did someone get out of wrong side of bed this morning , or just Tory humour bypass.MarqueeMark said:
Run along, laddie. Some of us have a higher boredom threshold for the important stuff than you....malcolmg said:
Can I interest you in a used bridge Sir , a real bargain and you would be stupid not to buy it.MarqueeMark said:
If people want to do a deal with us, then we invite them to provide a first draft of the trade agreement. They can use any existing EU deal as a starting point. We should expect that first draft to be angled in their favour, but if they want progress, we'd expect it to not take the piss. I suspect if they worked in good faith, we could be a long way down the road quite quickly.swing_voter said:
How long will a full scale trade agreement take to negotiate, optimistically speaking - years is my first thoughtSouthamObserver said:
They will find one or two deals to do, because they have to. But no serious country is going to sign a full scale trade agreement with the UK until our relationship with the EU is finalised.rkrkrk said:
It does seem a very poor result for Gove/Davis/the negotiating team.SouthamObserver said:From
"We hold all the cards", "They will be desperate for a deal", "They need us more than we need them"
to
“We pressed hard during negotiations to secure this outcome and we are disappointed that the EU were not willing to move on this.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/20/uk-fishing-waters-control-delayed-not-abandoned-gove-tells-tory-mps
Michael Gove's quote from yesterday accurately captures the strength of the UK's position in the Brexit negotiations.
If there are too many of these defeats - then one might reasonably ask the question... why not scrap the implementation period and just extend A50 for 2 years and then leave?
Is it really that likely that David Davis and Liam Fox are going to have trade deals lined up by 2020?
PS: plus it was posted by the site CCHQ propaganda agent0
