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Sky now reporting the dismay of labour mps over Corbyn's demand a sample of the nerve gas is given to Russia and that Corbyn has provided an open goal to Theresa May.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, I'm sure there's murmuring. But unless they plan on doing something they might as well just roll over and wait either to be defeated again, or to rejoice in the fact they helped the likes of Corbyn become PM.
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That's rather excellent.CarlottaVance said:0 -
This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/9760558040539381760 -
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A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It's not impossible that something might well turn up from the investigation that suggests ongoing use of chemical weapons on British soil.Nigelb said:
One point which has perhaps not been sufficiently discussed is the suggestion that Russia has been using this method for undetected assassinations for some time (hence the planned exhumations), and that something went wrong this time around.JosiasJessop said:
What is gained from giving the Russians a sample? What do you expect them to do with it and say afterwards? Do you trust them?rkrkrk said:
Bypassing?Cyclefree said:
If the OPCW disagree fine. The experts can come to a view as to what has happened and who is/may be responsible. They are the experts and are neutral. Russia is not a neutral observer.
Ben Bradshaw wrote an article in the newspaper last week saying that Corbyn had long campaigned against chemical weapons, had been a supporter of the OPCW etc which is why he was in a great position to provide leadership. And yet when it comes to it he wants to bypass the OPCW.
'But Mr Corbyn said people should wait for an independent assessment of the nerve agent from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical weapons before they “shoot from the hip”.'
Until that is eliminated as a possibility, sharing any data with Russia is not exactly sensible.
One thing for sure is that giving Russia samples of anything will lead them to find a way of blaming the Ukranians for what happened in Salisbury. The OPCW inspectors are impartial and should be trusted whatever they say in their report.0 -
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.0 -
I have a concern which hasn't yet been discussed.Sandpit said:
You've been very good at highlighting the value of this bet, I've been following it for a few months now and topping up occasionally. Thanks for the tip.AlastairMeeks said:
Well quite. This has been my biggest bet of 2018. I'm not thinking of cashing out at current prices or anything like.Sandpit said:Still looks value at just under evens. Extending the A50 timeline (as opposed to a transition period) requires a very high bar.
I think fair value is therefore 1.5, so I am long.
But it is not less than that.0 -
Regarding Facebook, and the Obama campaign having operated entirely with the consent of voters...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/facebooks-rules-for-accessing-user-data-lured-more-than-just-cambridge-analytica/2018/03/19/31f6979c-658e-43d6-a71f-afdd8bf1308b_story.html?utm_term=.74017f07669a
Facebook “goes into this endless hairsplitting that people should have known,” said Marc Rotenberg, president and executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a nonprofit advocacy group that has brought privacy cases before the FTC. “No one could have known that their friends were disclosing their personal data on their behalf. It’s entirely illogical, and it breaks the consent law.”…
…In 2011, Carol Davidsen, director of data integration and media analytics for Obama for America, built a database of every American voter using the same Facebook developer tool used by Cambridge, known as the social graph API. Any time people used Facebook’s log-in button to sign on to the campaign’s website, the Obama data scientists were able to access their profile as well as their friends’ information. That allowed them to chart the closeness of people’s relationships and make estimates about which people would be most likely to influence other people in their network to vote.
“We ingested the entire U.S. social graph,” Davidsen said in an interview. “We would ask permission to basically scrape your profile, and also scrape your friends, basically anything that was available to scrape. We scraped it all.”
Sure, individuals gave their consent, signing in to the campaign website - but effectively gave away all their friends' data at the same time, with only the flimsiest excuse of consent having being given via (for most people) impenetrable user settings.0 -
That's very good.CarlottaVance said:
The fact that they've not gone mad about their young lady citizen who's in intensive care in Salisbury probably tells us all we need to know.0 -
"Congratulations on having banned your only serious opponent from standing against you, Mr. President."AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
Though, given the way that Selmayr was recently appointed, that he might hold such sentiments is quite understandable.0 -
Juncker is just envious of Putin's greater democratic legitimacy.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/9760558040539381760 -
EU leaders favour corrupt, undermocratic autocrats. Quelle surprise.SandyRentool said:
Juncker is just envious of Putin's greater democratic legitimacy.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/9760558040539381760 -
I believe they've accused us of denying her the consular assistance she so clearly needs.Sandpit said:
That's very good.CarlottaVance said:
The fact that they've not gone mad about their young lady citizen who's in intensive care in Salisbury probably tells us all we need to know.0 -
Given they have already done that as per Carlotta's posted tweet I'm not sure that is really a loss.Sandpit said:
It's not impossible that something might well turn up from the investigation that suggests ongoing use of chemical weapons on British soil.Nigelb said:
One point which has perhaps not been sufficiently discussed is the suggestion that Russia has been using this method for undetected assassinations for some time (hence the planned exhumations), and that something went wrong this time around.JosiasJessop said:
What is gained from giving the Russians a sample? What do you expect them to do with it and say afterwards? Do you trust them?rkrkrk said:
Bypassing?Cyclefree said:
If the OPCW disagree fine. The experts can come to a view as to what has happened and who is/may be responsible. They are the experts and are neutral. Russia is not a neutral observer.
Ben Bradshaw wrote an article in the newspaper last week saying that Corbyn had long campaigned against chemical weapons, had been a supporter of the OPCW etc which is why he was in a great position to provide leadership. And yet when it comes to it he wants to bypass the OPCW.
'But Mr Corbyn said people should wait for an independent assessment of the nerve agent from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical weapons before they “shoot from the hip”.'
Until that is eliminated as a possibility, sharing any data with Russia is not exactly sensible.
One thing for sure is that giving Russia samples of anything will lead them to find a way of blaming the Ukranians for what happened in Salisbury. The OPCW inspectors are impartial and should be trusted whatever they say in their report.0 -
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
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There were no billionaires in Russia in 2000?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's surprising. Pretty sure from memory Abromovich was called a billionaire in 2003 when he took over Chelsea.0 -
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
That is the transistion deal agreed yesterday to be ratified on friday, but you are in denialwilliamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
You've been confidently predicting things on this site for donkey's years, as have I. Both of us have been wrong on several occasions. I don't think we need to hold any other poster to a higher standard.williamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
I think their wealth was realised in the early 2000s when Putin took over.Philip_Thompson said:
There were no billionaires in Russia in 2000?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's surprising. Pretty sure from memory Abromovich was called a billionaire in 2003 when he took over Chelsea.0 -
We’ve not negotiated the post exit trade deal yet so you can’t say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
The transition deal says nothing about what will happen after it ends.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the transistion deal agreed yesterday to be ratified on friday, but you are in denialwilliamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
He trusted a Frenchman.TheScreamingEagles said:
Will Sarkozy collaborate with the police?Nigelb said:Sarkozy arrested...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43469316
I feel sorry for Gaddafi, he gave money to Sarkozy and a few years later Sarkozy bombed his country leading to Gaddafi's death.0 -
I thought their wealth had been realised in late nineties under Yeltsin though of course the oil price did jump in 2000 itself.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think their wealth was realised in the early 2000s when Putin took over.Philip_Thompson said:
There were no billionaires in Russia in 2000?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's surprising. Pretty sure from memory Abromovich was called a billionaire in 2003 when he took over Chelsea.0 -
People like Berezovsky and Potanin were definitely called billionaires in the 90s.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think their wealth was realised in the early 2000s when Putin took over.Philip_Thompson said:
There were no billionaires in Russia in 2000?TheScreamingEagles said:
That's surprising. Pretty sure from memory Abromovich was called a billionaire in 2003 when he took over Chelsea.0 -
We leave the single market, most likely the customs union too and end free movement and regain control of our fishing waters.williamglenn said:
The transition deal says nothing about what will happen after it ends.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the transistion deal agreed yesterday to be ratified on friday, but you are in denialwilliamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
That occurs whether post transition we get a Canada style FTA or go to WTO terms0 -
Actually I’m being very unfair on Sarkozy.Charles said:
He trusted a Frenchman.TheScreamingEagles said:
Will Sarkozy collaborate with the police?Nigelb said:Sarkozy arrested...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43469316
I feel sorry for Gaddafi, he gave money to Sarkozy and a few years later Sarkozy bombed his country leading to Gaddafi's death.
He did a wonderful thing for David Cameron and I should remember that.0 -
I don't think Big G's post was couched as a prediction but as a statement of what this deal delivers in and of itself.John_M said:
You've been confidently predicting things on this site for donkey's years, as have I. Both of us have been wrong on several occasions. I don't think we need to hold any other poster to a higher standard.williamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
Does Northern Ireland leave the customs union, or are they not us?HYUFD said:
We leave the single market, most likely the customs union too and end free movement and regain control of our fishing waters.williamglenn said:
The transition deal says nothing about what will happen after it ends.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the transistion deal agreed yesterday to be ratified on friday, but you are in denialwilliamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
That occurs whether post transition we get a Canada style FTA or go to WTO terms0 -
In the apparent words of someone, what are they going to do, vote Labour?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels-1 -
Yes.williamglenn said:
Does Northern Ireland leave the customs union, or are they not us?HYUFD said:
We leave the single market, most likely the customs union too and end free movement and regain control of our fishing waters.williamglenn said:
The transition deal says nothing about what will happen after it ends.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the transistion deal agreed yesterday to be ratified on friday, but you are in denialwilliamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
That occurs whether post transition we get a Canada style FTA or go to WTO terms0 -
See HYUFD at 12.14williamglenn said:
I don't think Big G's post was couched as a prediction but as a statement of what this deal delivers in and of itself.John_M said:
You've been confidently predicting things on this site for donkey's years, as have I. Both of us have been wrong on several occasions. I don't think we need to hold any other poster to a higher standard.williamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
The backstop position would seem to indicate otherwise.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes.williamglenn said:
Does Northern Ireland leave the customs union, or are they not us?HYUFD said:
We leave the single market, most likely the customs union too and end free movement and regain control of our fishing waters.williamglenn said:
The transition deal says nothing about what will happen after it ends.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the transistion deal agreed yesterday to be ratified on friday, but you are in denialwilliamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
That occurs whether post transition we get a Canada style FTA or go to WTO terms
Has Arlene said anything yet?0 -
Was Sarkozy the name of the pig?TheScreamingEagles said:
Actually I’m being very unfair on Sarkozy.Charles said:
He trusted a Frenchman.TheScreamingEagles said:
Will Sarkozy collaborate with the police?Nigelb said:Sarkozy arrested...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43469316
I feel sorry for Gaddafi, he gave money to Sarkozy and a few years later Sarkozy bombed his country leading to Gaddafi's death.
He did a wonderful thing for David Cameron and I should remember that.0 -
So were Davidson and Gove lying last week when they said "Britain will leave the CFP as of March 2019", or had they been lied to?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
It would actually be genuinely useful if you could report what some of your NE folk are saying about this rather than regurgitating Tory pols' 'disappointed' press releases. Apart from anything else it might have a useful bearing on future SCon electoral performance.0 -
0
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For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.0 -
Nah. When Dave’s dad was dying in France Sarkozy arranged for a military helicopter/escort to take Dave to the hospital in time.SandyRentool said:
Was Sarkozy the name of the pig?TheScreamingEagles said:
Actually I’m being very unfair on Sarkozy.Charles said:
He trusted a Frenchman.TheScreamingEagles said:
Will Sarkozy collaborate with the police?Nigelb said:Sarkozy arrested...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43469316
I feel sorry for Gaddafi, he gave money to Sarkozy and a few years later Sarkozy bombed his country leading to Gaddafi's death.
He did a wonderful thing for David Cameron and I should remember that.
It helped Dave to get the chance to say goodbye to his father.0 -
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:
This is the part that is slightly confusing to me, unless you believe giving the Russians a sample is equivalent to believing everything they say then there really isn't much to lose from it.rkrkrk said:
The main thing is that a neutral observer does testing.JosiasJessop said:
What is gained from giving the Russians a sample? What do you expect them to do with it and say afterwards? Do you trust them?rkrkrk said:
Bypassing?Cyclefree said:
If the OPCW disagree fine. The experts can come to a view as to what has happened and who is/may be responsible. They are the experts and are neutral. Russia is not a neutral observer.
Ben Bradshaw wrote an article in the newspaper last week saying that Corbyn had long campaigned against chemical weapons, had been a supporter of the OPCW etc which is why he was in a great position to provide leadership. And yet when it comes to it he wants to bypass the OPCW.
'But Mr Corbyn said people should wait for an independent assessment of the nerve agent from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical weapons before they “shoot from the hip”.'
Corbyn is absolutely right to point that out.
I don't think there's much to be gained from giving the Russians a sample. I don't think there's much to be lost from giving the Russians a sample either, it at least removes the weak defence that they weren't offered an opportunity to test it.
I wouldn't trust what they said unless there was other evidence to support it.
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.0 -
To help secure a good trade deal I'm sure the Tories will happily stuff the Scottish fishermen - worth remembering the SNP were historically referred to as the Tartan Tories.williamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
That vote seems to have been remarkably ineffective at delivering on that aim, unless Juncker is in your life in ways we are not privy to.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.0 -
I have not heard from the family but they will be backing their conservative mps to defend the industry in any trade deal and I believe the mps are with TM as I write this.Theuniondivvie said:
So were Davidson and Gove lying last week when they said "Britain will leave the CFP as of March 2019", or had they been lied to?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
It would actually be genuinely useful if you could report what some of your NE folk are saying about this rather than regurgitating Tory pols' 'disappointed' press releases. Apart from anything else it might have a useful bearing on future SCon electoral performance.
The one thing I do know is they will not support a final deal that does not satisfy the industry and TM's majority including the DUP disappears if they vote against0 -
Yes, they only stay in if the Irish issue still not resolved by the end of the transition period.williamglenn said:
Does Northern Ireland leave the customs union, or are they not us?HYUFD said:
We leave the single market, most likely the customs union too and end free movement and regain control of our fishing waters.williamglenn said:
The transition deal says nothing about what will happen after it ends.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is the transistion deal agreed yesterday to be ratified on friday, but you are in denialwilliamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
That occurs whether post transition we get a Canada style FTA or go to WTO terms
Even then as May effectively agreed in December the whole UK would agree regulatory alignment sufficient to avoid a hard border with the Republic.
In all other areas ie ending free movement, leaving the single market, regaining control of Fisheries policy in the North Sea etc all that will occur post transition0 -
Getting there though. Despite your best efforts to shill for the Putin-appeaser.....williamglenn said:
That vote seems to have been remarkably ineffective at delivering on that aim, unless Juncker is in your life in ways we are not privy to.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.0 -
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies0 -
Tory backbenchers won't, post transition control of Fisheries is a red line though not incompatible with a Canada style FTAcalum said:
To help secure a good trade deal I'm sure the Tories will happily stuff the Scottish fishermen - worth remembering the SNP were historically referred to as the Tartan Tories.williamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
The ECHR saves the UK Government a fortune.
The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has rejected a request to find that men detained during internment in Northern Ireland suffered torture.
The so-called hooded men claimed they were subjected to torture by the British army in 1971.
Lawyers for the men have called on the Irish government to appeal.
In 1978, the European Court of Human Rights held that the UK had carried out inhuman and degrading treatment.
However, the court fell short of defining this treatment as "torture".
In 2014, the Irish government said it would ask the European Court to revise this judgement.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-434695360 -
Well, that was decent of Sarko, but one can't help wondering what an ordinary private citizen would have had to do to get the same treatment.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah. When Dave’s dad was dying in France Sarkozy arranged for a military helicopter/escort to take Dave to the hospital in time.SandyRentool said:
Was Sarkozy the name of the pig?TheScreamingEagles said:
Actually I’m being very unfair on Sarkozy.Charles said:
He trusted a Frenchman.TheScreamingEagles said:
Will Sarkozy collaborate with the police?Nigelb said:Sarkozy arrested...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43469316
I feel sorry for Gaddafi, he gave money to Sarkozy and a few years later Sarkozy bombed his country leading to Gaddafi's death.
He did a wonderful thing for David Cameron and I should remember that.
It helped Dave to get the chance to say goodbye to his father.
0 -
There is no vote I could cast to get Theresa May removed from my life.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.0 -
This is Merkel's letter to congratulate Putin.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies
https://www.bundeskanzlerin.de/Content/DE/Pressemitteilungen/BPA/2018/03/2018-03-19-glueckwunsch-russland.html
I congratulate you on your re-election as President of the Russian Federation.
Today, it is more important than ever to continue the dialogue with one another and to foster relations between our governments and peoples. On this basis, we should strive to constructively address key bilateral and international challenges and find viable solutions.
I wish you success in the tasks that lie ahead of you.0 -
Steady on....”useful”?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's croniesMarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.0 -
PSwilliamglenn said:
This is Merkel's letter to congratulate Putin.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies
https://www.bundeskanzlerin.de/Content/DE/Pressemitteilungen/BPA/2018/03/2018-03-19-glueckwunsch-russland.html
I congratulate you on your re-election as President of the Russian Federation.
Today, it is more important than ever to continue the dialogue with one another and to foster relations between our governments and peoples. On this basis, we should strive to constructively address key bilateral and international challenges and find viable solutions.
I wish you success in the tasks that lie ahead of you.
Please don’t turn off the gas.....0 -
I don't understand all the outrage. It's the kind of diplomatic bollocks that gets written every time there's an election in Greater JohnnyForeignerLand. I'm sure some of our FCO folk are working on our own version as I write.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies0 -
Fair commentJohn_M said:
I don't understand all the outrage. It's the kind of diplomatic bollocks that gets written every time there's an election in Greater JohnnyForeignerLand. I'm sure some of our FCO folk are working on our own version as I write.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies0 -
It's the EU27 fisheries lobby which represents the 50,000 fishermen of the EU which will no doubt fight tooth and nail to keep UK waters open to them.HYUFD said:
Tory backbenchers won't, post transition control of Fisheries is a red line though not incompatible with a Canada style FTAcalum said:
To help secure a good trade deal I'm sure the Tories will happily stuff the Scottish fishermen - worth remembering the SNP were historically referred to as the Tartan Tories.williamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels
0 -
It’s a rare perk of the job, compensation for having to deal with lies like pig gateCarolus_Rex said:
Well, that was decent of Sarko, but one can't help wondering what an ordinary private citizen would have had to do to get the same treatment.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah. When Dave’s dad was dying in France Sarkozy arranged for a military helicopter/escort to take Dave to the hospital in time.SandyRentool said:
Was Sarkozy the name of the pig?TheScreamingEagles said:
Actually I’m being very unfair on Sarkozy.Charles said:
He trusted a Frenchman.TheScreamingEagles said:
Will Sarkozy collaborate with the police?Nigelb said:Sarkozy arrested...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43469316
I feel sorry for Gaddafi, he gave money to Sarkozy and a few years later Sarkozy bombed his country leading to Gaddafi's death.
He did a wonderful thing for David Cameron and I should remember that.
It helped Dave to get the chance to say goodbye to his father.0 -
This whole “letters to Putin” is a bit like (but nowhere near as bad as) de Valera’s condolences on Hitler’s death, from a protocol POV probably correct....but a seriously missed opportunity to have remained silent...0
-
There are no proposals beyond simply giving them a sample of their own nerve agent, presumably Russia would have already tested it. If you are given them some sample which you have already used secret methods to test then there is a chance they could see what methods you have used or something else along those lines. Simply giving them an unworked sample would give them nothing* more than they would already have.s.Charles said:
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:
This is the part that is slightly confusing to me, unless you believe giving the Russians a sample is equivalent to believing everything they say then there really isn't much to lose from it.rkrkrk said:
The main thing is that a neutral observer does testing.JosiasJessop said:
What is gained from giving the Russians a sample? What do you expect them to do with it and say afterwards? Do you trust them?rkrkrk said:
Bypassing?Cyclefree said:
'But Mr Corbyn said people should wait for an independent assessment of the nerve agent from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical weapons before they “shoot from the hip”.'
Corbyn is absolutely right to point that out.
I don't think there's much to be gained from giving the Russians a sample. I don't think there's much to be lost from giving the Russians a sample either, it at least removes the weak defence that they weren't offered an opportunity to test it.
I wouldn't trust what they said unless there was other evidence to support it.
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.
If giving a sample away could reveal intelligence they wouldn't have given it to the OPCW either.
*I mean I guess using something mulitple times could help hone the technique but I feel they would need much more than a sample we would give them, If anything I imagine they would probably gain much more in that end from controlled tests they conduct themselves with access to all the material afterwards.
0 -
I fairness to Juncker, his letter was hardly a gushing eulogy; rather it was a brief piece of cold diplomatic boilerplate. Now, don't get me wrong. I'd have preferred him to have said 'Bog off Vlad you pointy-eared poisoning despotic twat', but I assume there are protocols on these occasions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies0 -
You should have moved to Maidenhead...AlastairMeeks said:
There is no vote I could cast to get Theresa May removed from my life.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.0 -
Perhaps @MarqueeMark should move to Luxembourg.tlg86 said:
You should have moved to Maidenhead...AlastairMeeks said:
There is no vote I could cast to get Theresa May removed from my life.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.0 -
0
-
Neither of us know what intelligence Russia could learn from a sampleTheJezziah said:
There are no proposals beyond simply giving them a sample of their own nerve agent, presumably Russia would have already tested it. If you are given them some sample which you have already used secret methods to test then there is a chance they could see what methods you have used or something else along those lines. Simply giving them an unworked sample would give them nothing* more than they would already have.s.Charles said:
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:
This is the part that is slightly confusing to me, unless you believe giving the Russians a sample is equivalent to believing everything they say then there really isn't much to lose from it.rkrkrk said:
The main thing is that a neutral observer does testing.JosiasJessop said:
What is gained from giving the Russians a sample? What do you expect them to do with it and say afterwards? Do you trust them?rkrkrk said:
Bypassing?Cyclefree said:
'But Mr Corbyn said people should wait for an independent assessment of the nerve agent from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical weapons before they “shoot from the hip”.'
Corbyn is absolutely right to point that out.
I don't think there's much to be gained from giving the Russians a sample. I don't think there's much to be lost from giving the Russians a sample either, it at least removes the weak defence that they weren't offered an opportunity to test it.
I wouldn't trust what they said unless there was other evidence to support it.
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.
If giving a sample away could reveal intelligence they wouldn't have given it to the OPCW either.
*I mean I guess using something mulitple times could help hone the technique but I feel they would need much more than a sample we would give them, If anything I imagine they would probably gain much more in that end from controlled tests they conduct themselves with access to all the material afterwards.
So let’s leave it to people who do?0 -
ICYMI last night.
https://twitter.com/truefactsstated/status/975862833207496705?s=12
https://twitter.com/thedaemonbarber/status/975875711302098944?s=12
Enjoy your lunch.0 -
Don't carp, productivity in UK outrage manufactories has reached Stakhnovite levels. A Brexit success story.John_M said:
I don't understand all the outrage. It's the kind of diplomatic bollocks that gets written every time there's an election in Greater JohnnyForeignerLand. I'm sure some of our FCO folk are working on our own version as I write.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies0 -
More outrage.Theuniondivvie said:
Don't carp, productivity in UK outrage manufactories has reached Stakhnovite levels. A Brexit success story.John_M said:
I don't understand all the outrage. It's the kind of diplomatic bollocks that gets written every time there's an election in Greater JohnnyForeignerLand. I'm sure some of our FCO folk are working on our own version as I write.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/9760799555526205440 -
Not one of Mr Meeks passions?tlg86 said:
Maidenhead...AlastairMeeks said:
There is no vote I could cast to get Theresa May removed from my life.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
0 -
Unless you are the intelligence services then that doesn't really back up your argument, it was you not the intelligence services who asserted they could learn something from the sample, so as you say maybe we should leave it to those who know....Charles said:
Neither of us know what intelligence Russia could learn from a sampleTheJezziah said:
There are no proposals beyond simply giving them a sample of their own nerve agent, presumably Russia would have already tested it. If you are given them some sample which you have already used secret methods to test then there is a chance they could see what methods you have used or something else along those lines. Simply giving them an unworked sample would give them nothing* more than they would already have.s.Charles said:
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:rkrkrk said:
This is the part that is slightly confusing to me, unless you believe giving the Russians a sample is equivalent to believing everything they say then there really isn't much to lose from it.
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.
If giving a sample away could reveal intelligence they wouldn't have given it to the OPCW either.
*I mean I guess using something mulitple times could help hone the technique but I feel they would need much more than a sample we would give them, If anything I imagine they would probably gain much more in that end from controlled tests they conduct themselves with access to all the material afterwards.
So let’s leave it to people who do?0 -
Retaliatory outrage even.williamglenn said:
More outrage.Theuniondivvie said:
Don't carp, productivity in UK outrage manufactories has reached Stakhnovite levels. A Brexit success story.John_M said:
I don't understand all the outrage. It's the kind of diplomatic bollocks that gets written every time there's an election in Greater JohnnyForeignerLand. I'm sure some of our FCO folk are working on our own version as I write.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/976079955552620544
https://twitter.com/MrMalky/status/9760383264227246080 -
So, that does not change the fact the UK government will fight to ensure UK waters are mainly used by UK fishermen and post transition will not agree to any FTA that does not allow thatcalum said:
It's the EU27 fisheries lobby which represents the 50,000 fishermen of the EU which will no doubt fight tooth and nail to keep UK waters open to them.HYUFD said:
Tory backbenchers won't, post transition control of Fisheries is a red line though not incompatible with a Canada style FTAcalum said:
To help secure a good trade deal I'm sure the Tories will happily stuff the Scottish fishermen - worth remembering the SNP were historically referred to as the Tartan Tories.williamglenn said:
How can you say what will happen on 1st January 2021 when it hasn't been negotiated yet?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nonsense in spades - The Scottish mps have been on the media expressing disappointment at the transistion period but recognizing that the UK gains control of it's coastal waters on 1st January 2021.TheScreamingEagles said:
You need to take off the blue tinted specs.Big_G_NorthWales said:
A lib dem remainer complaining about us not leaving the EU quickly enoughTheScreamingEagles said:
Michael Gove and Ruth Davidson repeatedly lied to the people of Scotland, particularly the fishing communities.
This has the potential to undo all the good work of the Scottish Tories.
All the Tory gains in Scotland stopped Corbyn being PM last year.
JRM and IDS have both said today that they are focussing on life after transisition, not the transition itself.
And no other party comes near to fulfilling the Scots fishermen on this and that includes the SNP who would hand it all back to Brussels0 -
Good news on inflation falling back.
Another Remainer canard truly cooked?
As an aside, I fully expected it to, and, as a consequence have on numerous occasions on here predicted that sub 2% interest rates are the new normal.0 -
Juncker is telling Putin that the security thing isn't working and is an issue. It's normal diplospeak. So he says "Our common objective should be to reestablish a cooperative pan-European security order. I hope you would use your fourth term in office to pursue this goal." Translation: there's no security order and it is all your fault.0
-
Gove is the right person for the fishing industry0
-
The Tory Europhobes are revolting.williamglenn said:
More outrage.Theuniondivvie said:
Don't carp, productivity in UK outrage manufactories has reached Stakhnovite levels. A Brexit success story.John_M said:
I don't understand all the outrage. It's the kind of diplomatic bollocks that gets written every time there's an election in Greater JohnnyForeignerLand. I'm sure some of our FCO folk are working on our own version as I write.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/9760799555526205440 -
In your dreamsAlastairMeeks said:
The Tory Europhobes are revolting.williamglenn said:
More outrage.Theuniondivvie said:
Don't carp, productivity in UK outrage manufactories has reached Stakhnovite levels. A Brexit success story.John_M said:
I don't understand all the outrage. It's the kind of diplomatic bollocks that gets written every time there's an election in Greater JohnnyForeignerLand. I'm sure some of our FCO folk are working on our own version as I write.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The letter seems to be Junckers acting on his own.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
The man is a complete nightmare and should have been removed from office the day David Cameron resigned.
Junckers and Corbyn being useful idiots for Russia Today and Putin's cronies
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/9760799555526205440 -
If it was harmless to share it they would share it. The fact that they won’t implies it isn’t harmlessTheJezziah said:
Unless you are the intelligence services then that doesn't really back up your argument, it was you not the intelligence services who asserted they could learn something from the sample, so as you say maybe we should leave it to those who know....Charles said:
Neither of us know what intelligence Russia could learn from a sampleTheJezziah said:
There are no proposals beyond simply giving them a sample of their own nerve agent, presumably Russia would have already tested it. If you are given them some sample which you have already used secret methods to test then there is a chance they could see what methods you have used or something else along those lines. Simply giving them an unworked sample would give them nothing* more than they would already have.s.Charles said:
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:rkrkrk said:
This is the part that is slightly confusing to me, unless you believe giving the Russians a sample is equivalent to believing everything they say then there really isn't much to lose from it.
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.
If giving a sample away could reveal intelligence they wouldn't have given it to the OPCW either.
*I mean I guess using something mulitple times could help hone the technique but I feel they would need much more than a sample we would give them, If anything I imagine they would probably gain much more in that end from controlled tests they conduct themselves with access to all the material afterwards.
So let’s leave it to people who do?0 -
A fishy character?Big_G_NorthWales said:Gove is the right person for the fishing industry
0 -
Quick thinkingOldKingCole said:
A fishy character?Big_G_NorthWales said:Gove is the right person for the fishing industry
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That's very true. The response from Russia has been truly bizarre.Sandpit said:
That's very good.CarlottaVance said:
The fact that they've not gone mad about their young lady citizen who's in intensive care in Salisbury probably tells us all we need to know.
Good video. Shows that the UK government is catching up with the times, with their media output.0 -
Do you think Juncker knows his plaice?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Quick thinkingOldKingCole said:
A fishy character?Big_G_NorthWales said:Gove is the right person for the fishing industry
0 -
No other country has done that to my knowledge.CarlottaVance said:
Which other countries have assassinated exiles using highly toxic agents at risk to others in the last couple of decades in the U.K.?rkrkrk said:
He's pointed out we should wait for the investigation being done by the OPCW - whilst the Tories have already blamed Russia before the investigation is complete.Nigelb said:
Given that is being done anyway, Corbyn is hardly pointing that out.rkrkrk said:
The main thing is that a neutral observer does testing.JosiasJessop said:
What is gained from giving the Russians a sample? What do you expect them to do with it and say afterwards? Do you trust them?rkrkrk said:
Bypassing?Cyclefree said:
If the OPCW disagree fine. The experts can come to a view as to what has happened and who is/may be responsible. They are the experts and are neutral. Russia is not a neutral observer.
Ben Bradshaw wrote an article in the newspaper last week saying that Corbyn had long campaigned against chemical weapons, had been a supporter of the OPCW etc which is why he was in a great position to provide leadership. And yet when it comes to it he wants to bypass the OPCW.
'But Mr Corbyn said people should wait for an independent assessment of the nerve agent from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical weapons before they “shoot from the hip”.'
Corbyn is absolutely right to point that out...
His only substantive comment was to say it's necessary to let Russia have one too. Which is either silly, or malign.
I think it's reasonable to defend the process of having a neutral investigator.
We know Russia is guilty but its important to get the independent confirmation.
And it helps us internationally if we abide by the rules.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
What fine patriotic lions.
https://twitter.com/hughcasswell/status/976066531934302209?s=12
"More to follow" - more details or more councillors??
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https://twitter.com/TheRedRoar/status/976079006163333120
Not a surprise, but would bugger my bet with Pulpstar.0 -
Well donewilliamglenn said:
Do you think Juncker knows his plaice?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Quick thinkingOldKingCole said:
A fishy character?Big_G_NorthWales said:Gove is the right person for the fishing industry
0 -
The 2018 quotas by type of fish etc, interestingly Ireland is a big player.
http://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-13780-2017-ADD-1/en/pdf0 -
You're in the UK, right? Any vote except the EPP would have been a vote against Juncker. If the EPP hadn't got enough votes, he wouldn't have got the job.MarqueeMark said:
For all those Remainers who didn't feel a bit queasy about casting their vote for Remaining in the EU - maybe now you can get some insight into the mindset of those of us from whom the democracy deficit was what caused some of us to vote to Leave.AlastairMeeks said:This is in no way going to be controversial:
https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/status/976055804053938176
There is no other vote I could cast to get this clown Juncker removed from my life.
A bigger problem was that there was no way to vote *for* him, although IIRC there were some EPP candidates running in London. The tactical way to stop Juncker would have been to vote Labour since that would boost the next strongest candidate, although I'm not sure you'd have preferred Martin Schulz.0 -
DetailsCarolus_Rex said:TheScreamingEagles said:What fine patriotic lions.
https://twitter.com/hughcasswell/status/976066531934302209?s=12
"More to follow" - more details or more councillors??
https://twitter.com/tonyroe/status/9760685228739420170 -
Well yes that was part of my argument, if even a sample could risk intelligence they would not have shared it with anyone, that is why your claim, followed up by we should leave it to those who know seems a bit suspect unless you yourself are actually one of those who know.Charles said:
If it was harmless to share it they would share it. The fact that they won’t implies it isn’t harmlessTheJezziah said:
Unless you are the intelligence services then that doesn't really back up your argument, it was you not the intelligence services who asserted they could learn something from the sample, so as you say maybe we should leave it to those who know....Charles said:
Neither of us know what intelligence Russia could learn from a sampleTheJezziah said:
There are no proposals beyond simply giving them a sample of their own nerve agent, presumably Russia would have already tested it. If you are given them some sample which you have already used secret methods to test then there is a chance they could see what methods you have used or something else along those lines. Simply giving them an unworked sample would give them nothing* more than they would already have.s.Charles said:
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:rkrkrk said:
This is the part that is slightly confusing to me, unless you believe giving the Russians a sample is equivalent to believing everything they say then there really isn't much to lose from it.
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.
If giving a sample away could reveal intelligence they wouldn't have given it to the OPCW either.
*I mean I guess using something mulitple times could help hone the technique but I feel they would need much more than a sample we would give them, If anything I imagine they would probably gain much more in that end from controlled tests they conduct themselves with access to all the material afterwards.
So let’s leave it to people who do?0 -
Aren't we seeing a dress rehearsal here for the main issue? The Brexiteers are saying they can maybe just about put up with unrestricted access for the transition, but after that no way. The EU are saying they need unrestricted access during the transition, and after that let's see. The Government is saying that after transition we should be free to sign details and (sotto voce) these deals might include any amount of access as part of some wider package. In other words, the Brexiteers are trying to signal that this is a red line for them, in an area where the Government would otherwise be tempted to split the difference.AlastairMeeks said:
The Tory Europhobes are revolting.williamglenn said:0 -
The obvious point, surely, is that if they have a sample they can start making all sorts of claims about it, like that they have analysed it and discovered beyond a doubt that it was made in Ukraine, or Porton Down, or whatever; and without a sample, they can't.Charles said:
If it was harmless to share it they would share it. The fact that they won’t implies it isn’t harmlessTheJezziah said:
Unless you are the intelligence services then that doesn't really back up your argument, it was you not the intelligence services who asserted they could learn something from the sample, so as you say maybe we should leave it to those who know....Charles said:
Neither of us know what intelligence Russia could learn from a sampleTheJezziah said:
There are no proposals beyond simply giving them a sample of their own nerve agent, presumably Russia would have already tested it. If you are given them some sample which you have already used secret methods to test then there is a chance they could see what methods you have used or something else along those lines. Simply giving them an unworked sample would give them nothing* more than they would already have.s.Charles said:
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:rkrkrk said:
This is the part that is slightly confusing to me, unless you believe giving the Russians a sample is equivalent to believing everything they say then there really isn't much to lose from it.
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.
If giving a sample away could reveal intelligence they wouldn't have given it to the OPCW either.
*I mean I guess using something mulitple times could help hone the technique but I feel they would need much more than a sample we would give them, If anything I imagine they would probably gain much more in that end from controlled tests they conduct themselves with access to all the material afterwards.
So let’s leave it to people who do?0 -
Gove is not giving MPs any reason to believe him when he claims the UK government will have complete control in a year's time while folding on everything now. I think he's panicking and saying whatever comes into his head.Big_G_NorthWales said:Gove is the right person for the fishing industry
0 -
Gove betrayed David Cameron.
Gove betrayed Boris Johnson.
Gove betrayed the fishermen.
Gove will eventually betray Brexiteers won't he, it's in his nature.0 -
So the main worry is they may try to claim it was made in the Ukraine.Ishmael_Z said:
The obvious point, surely, is that if they have a sample they can start making all sorts of claims about it, like that they have analysed it and discovered beyond a doubt that it was made in Ukraine, or Porton Down, or whatever; and without a sample, they can't.Charles said:
If it was harmless to share it they would share it. The fact that they won’t implies it isn’t harmlessTheJezziah said:
Unless you are the intelligence services then that doesn't really back up your argument, it was you not the intelligence services who asserted they could learn something from the sample, so as you say maybe we should leave it to those who know....Charles said:
Neither of us know what intelligence Russia could learn from a sampleTheJezziah said:
There are no proposals beyond simply giving them a sample of their own nerve agent, presumably Russia would have already tested it. If you are given them some sample which you have already used secret methods to test then there is a chance they could see what methods you have used or something else along those lines. Simply giving them an unworked sample would give them nothing* more than they would already have.s.Charles said:
Someone I know once described the intelligence business as like doing a jigsawTheJezziah said:
Unless you know exactly what pieces of information the other party already has then any piece of information is valuable. You don't know which one will allow them to make the connection A > B and conclude X.
Our intelligence services will not want to give Russia a sample. They don't know what Russia could learn from it.
If giving a sample away could reveal intelligence they wouldn't have given it to the OPCW either.
*I mean I guess using something mulitple times could help hone the technique but I feel they would need much more than a sample we would give them, If anything I imagine they would probably gain much more in that end from controlled tests they conduct themselves with access to all the material afterwards.
So let’s leave it to people who do?
Which is not what they are doing now?0 -
That reminds me of something I read about Francois Mitterrand recently, that he had a compulsion to sell everyone out to prove to himself that he was the cleverest of them all.TheScreamingEagles said:Gove betrayed David Cameron.
Gove betrayed Boris Johnson.
Gove betrayed the fishermen.
Gove will eventually betray Brexiteers won't he, it's in his nature.0
This discussion has been closed.