politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour candidates fear doorstep questions about Corbyn and the
Options
Comments
-
Yes. I’d trim pensions and education budgets for that, and keep taxes more or less the same. But, I appreciate that’s a minority view.Jonathan said:
Important to set out the choice. If we are spending more on defence to counter a Russian threat, something has to give. Higher taxes, lower domestic spending.Casino_Royale said:
I think as I’ve outlined there it would be affordable over a phased period to 2025.Jonathan said:
Time to raid the magic money tree? What goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
I hope you’d at least credit me with not being naive about public finances. I appreciate you might chose to make alternative spending decisions with the money.
I suspect in reality taxes will tick up a bit.0 -
People nicking torches from local retailers no doubt.HYUFD said:
No as a report has shown switching off street lights in the area has had no increase in crime, the main increase has come in the day hence the funds for extra police, while saving the council millionsAnazina said:
Is this the same council that removed street lighting in Epping Forest and environs to save on council tax? Does more darkness lead to more crime?HYUFD said:
Essex is also increasing council tax to pay for more policeRichard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
0 -
Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/9757054874035609600 -
Great anecdote, thanks.Dura_Ace said:
Extra squadron or two of what? There's nobody to operate them and no room at Marham, Coningsby or Waddington.Casino_Royale said:
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
You can gauge the ambit of the RAF's goals by the privatised Military Flying Training Scheme. When I did my BFT int the late 80s they had 140 Tucanos to support the training pipeline. Now under the auspices of MFTS they have 10 Havards to fill the same role! From that you can work out how many FJ pilots they intend to wing for the FAA and RAF combined and it's not a very big number - probably not even enough to do 1:1 replacements for retirees, fatalities and quitters. Scaling this up is going to be eye wateringly expensive thanks to the strictures of the MFTS agreement.
Amusing Tucano anecdote: I was on one of the first Tucano courses and on a cold Yorkshire morning the staish came out, inspected his flight line and issued a broad spectrum bollocking because all of "his" aircraft weren't parked in a straight line. So we arsed about moving them to get all of the vertical stabs exactly aligned then we noticed that none of the prop spinners lined up. None of the a/c, which had been built with no great precision mainly by ex-shipyard workers in Belfast, were exactly the same size.
Wasn't that one of the problems with the Nimrod MRA4 - they were not identical, making modifications difficult?0 -
Anyone have a link to the full text?0
-
Streetlights being turned off between midnight and 5 AM should be a saving every council makes.Anazina said:
Is this the same council that removed street lighting in Epping Forest and environs to save on council tax? Does more darkness lead to more crime?HYUFD said:
Essex is also increasing council tax to pay for more policeRichard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
0 -
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
Yes but we will leave on the 29th March 2019 - today's agreement makes it near impossible to reverse leaving the EUAnazina said:
No doubt – effectively gives us an extra two years in the EU (near enough).Big_G_NorthWales said:Markets seem to like the statement
0 -
Not advisable here in London – would be pitch black yet still plenty of people trying to walk about and get home.Pulpstar said:
Streetlights being turned off between midnight and 5 AM should be a saving every council makes.Anazina said:
Is this the same council that removed street lighting in Epping Forest and environs to save on council tax? Does more darkness lead to more crime?HYUFD said:
Essex is also increasing council tax to pay for more policeRichard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
0 -
Is it in The Gulag Archipelego that there's an imagined look into Stalin's mind just after Barbarossa, and the great sense of betrayal he felt by the one man with whom he thought he had a mutual understanding? If the Soviet Union's defensive capabilities at that point were anything to go by, they seemed hardly prepared for an offensive.Sean_F said:
My understanding is that Stalin certainly expected war with Germany, but not till about 1943-44.Theuniondivvie said:
I recall that there's a Russian historian, Suvorov, whose thesis is that Barbarossa was a preemptive strike by Hitler to prevent Stalin attacking Germany after being weakened by war with the Western allies.OldKingCole said:
Quite. but the late Adolf took a while in getting round to it. Though I suspect that if Britain and France hadn’t intervened to ‘help’ Poland the Germas might well have crashed on further East.david_herdson said:
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:
Is there a counter-factual anywhere where that happened?
On checking Wiki, I see Suvorov was formerly GRU and defected to the UK in 1978.
Watch how you go, comrade.0 -
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_agreement_coloured.pdfCasino_Royale said:Anyone have a link to the full text?
0 -
-
Casino_Royale said:
Anyone have a link to the full text?
Here you go https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_agreement_coloured.pdf0 -
Not for nothing are the RMP known as the "monkeys". You don't have to be as thick as fuck to join but it certainly helps.JosiasJessop said:Military incompetence apparently extends to the courts:
"'Flawed' probe into Army instructors' abuse halted"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-43458416
"It emerged the RMP officer leading the investigation, Capt Teresa Spanton, did not question eyewitnesses because she thought they would lie."0 -
So could the whole UK. The government has just bought time to find the right formulations to allow this to happen without too much humiliation.Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.
0 -
Thank you.AlastairMeeks said:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_agreement_coloured.pdfCasino_Royale said:Anyone have a link to the full text?
0 -
I am not sure if that washes much any more. Housing is the key issue and growing for many - not much difference saving £20 on council tax a year makes to your budget (the maximum 3% rise those councils would make under the referendum rules) when you are paying £1500 a month in rent.HYUFD said:
Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea and Wandsworth though have notoriously low levels of council tax, substantial surpluses and less need to raise council tax to fund social care and the police etc. If they went Labour council tax would almost certainly go upHHemmelig said:
The Tories will struggle to play the low tax card in these local elections, given that most councils are putting up council tax by 5% this year, and most councils right now are Tory controlled.HYUFD said:
True but many wealthy West Londoners are also afraid of the hard Left taxing them to the hilt
*Genuine question to someone not as biased as HYUFD*
Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
After many years of freezes and low increases I find it hard to believe that this won't cause at least some swing against the Tories at the elections.0 -
I am delighted about today's agreement but according to Barnier NI will receive intensive consideration with the intention of agreeing a mutually acceptable solutionAnazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
Mr. Eagles, no need for the EU to even attempt to resolve the Irish border then. And that would extend EU reach into UK territory. Surely there's going to be a rebellion over that?0
-
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/9757054874035609600 -
Bortle 1 skies for the Greenwich observatory, I'll believe it when I see itAnazina said:
Not advisable here in London – would be pitch black yet still plenty of people trying to walk about and get home.Pulpstar said:
Streetlights being turned off between midnight and 5 AM should be a saving every council makes.Anazina said:
Is this the same council that removed street lighting in Epping Forest and environs to save on council tax? Does more darkness lead to more crime?HYUFD said:
Essex is also increasing council tax to pay for more policeRichard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
0 -
Nope. It’s a myth.Casino_Royale said:
I’m afraid it’s a fact.Gardenwalker said:
Another one of those Brexit myths.Casino_Royale said:
Yep. The only legitimate form of democracy is the one that gives the right answer to the European vision and, if it doesn't, is asked to think again until it does.williamglenn said:
The best thing about the upcoming reversal of Brexit is that it will put an end to smug British sneering at other countries for having the maturity to think again about these issues, as if they are lesser democracies.Casino_Royale said:
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.
Up there with “EU is anti-trade”; “EU hurts third world farmers”; “EU has nothing to do with European security”; “EU has no bearing on the Belfast Agreement”; “EU single market and customs union has no effect on our economy”; ; “Italian prosecco growers will save us”; bent bananas, and using Norway as bait to persuade voters to support Brexit, then switching to the Albanian model.
Anyway, your answer on a different EU is actually not so different from mine. It’s just that I realise the status quo is not a tyranny - far from it, and that any change can only happen if we have a seat at the table.0 -
Epic, epic fail.tlg86 said:
The Women's Equality Party spent £80 a vote!rottenborough said:0 -
Rules risk.AlastairMeeks said:You can still back Britain leaving the EU before the 29/03/2019 - 23:59:59 at odds against on Betfair. Quite what is supporting this price now, I have no idea.
"Unless otherwise provided in this Agreement, Union law shall be applicable to and in the United Kingdom during the transition period."
BF rules say "when the Treaties cease to apply to the UK".0 -
Theresa's played a blinder. Rees-Mogg's mealy-mouthed piece today means that he's been crushed like a bug - Theresa won't have any more problems from him. Farage might yelp but he can buzz off to Russia and friend Vlad for all we care!0
-
Yup.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, no need for the EU to even attempt to resolve the Irish border then. And that would extend EU reach into UK territory. Surely there's going to be a rebellion over that?
Hard Brexiteers and the DUP are going to try and derail this deal, and maybe topple Mrs May.
You can be damn sure the SNP will be asking for the same for Scotland.0 -
Indeed. A decent shift by May.Stark_Dawning said:Theresa's played a blinder. Rees-Mogg's mealy-mouthed piece today means that he's been crushed like a bug - Theresa won't have any more problems from him. Farage might yelp but he can buzz off to Russia and friend Vlad for all we care!
Credit where it is due.0 -
Who really, apart from the real loons worries about things stopping in 20/21 or similar. The end point should be what they want.0
-
Betfair rules say: "Examples of when this might occur include, but are not limited, to: the date specified in a withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU; the end of the two year negotiating period (29/03/2019) as set out by Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty (or any extension to this time period); or the date of the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act. If more than one of these events were to occur, this market will be settled on the first of these events to occur."TheWhiteRabbit said:
Rules risk.AlastairMeeks said:You can still back Britain leaving the EU before the 29/03/2019 - 23:59:59 at odds against on Betfair. Quite what is supporting this price now, I have no idea.
"Unless otherwise provided in this Agreement, Union law shall be applicable to and in the United Kingdom during the transition period."
BF rules say "when the Treaties cease to apply to the UK".0 -
Stark_Dawning said:
Theresa's played a blinder. Rees-Mogg's mealy-mouthed piece today means that he's been crushed like a bug - Theresa won't have any more problems from him. Farage might yelp but he can buzz off to Russia and friend Vlad for all we care!
Well, there's two vastly different interpretations.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, no need for the EU to even attempt to resolve the Irish border then. And that would extend EU reach into UK territory. Surely there's going to be a rebellion over that?
Hard Brexiteers and the DUP are going to try and derail this deal, and maybe topple Mrs May.
You can be damn sure the SNP will be asking for the same for Scotland.
For me I've never been hugely concerned about the transition period - we can put up with a lot of imposition in that period, even extended, so long as the end state is a good one - but I'm generally inclined to believe the Harder Brexiters will see things as unacceptable and revolt, since they have far more red lines to be crossed.0 -
She is behaving like a Prime Minister shouldAnazina said:
Indeed. A decent shift by May.Stark_Dawning said:Theresa's played a blinder. Rees-Mogg's mealy-mouthed piece today means that he's been crushed like a bug - Theresa won't have any more problems from him. Farage might yelp but he can buzz off to Russia and friend Vlad for all we care!
Credit where it is due.0 -
What's all this chat?Anazina said:
"Unless another deal is found" - which is what we've been doing all along.
A true hard Brexit would be "another deal". So would SM membership for the whole of the UK.0 -
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/9757058898890301460 -
Considering Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster are the 2 wealthiest boroughs in the UK and basically divided between the super rich and those with a hefty trust fund and inheritance and the poor and those in social housing and on welfare there are very few middle class, middle income voters there. The boroughs are divided between the rich who tend to vote Tory and for whom a big council tax rise is a big issue and the poor who tend to vote Labour and for whom it is notbrendan16 said:
I am not sure if that washes much any more. Housing is the key issue and growing for many - not much difference saving £20 on council tax a year makes to your budget (the maximum 3% rise those councils would make under the referendum rules) when you are paying £1500 a month in rent.HYUFD said:
Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea and Wandsworth though have notoriously low levels of council tax, substantial surpluses and less need to raise council tax to fund social care and the police etc. If they went Labour council tax would almost certainly go upHHemmelig said:
The Tories will struggle to play the low tax card in these local elections, given that most councils are putting up council tax by 5% this year, and most councils right now are Tory controlled.HYUFD said:
True but many wealthy West Londoners are also afraid of the hard Left taxing them to the hilt
*Genuine question to someone not as biased as HYUFD*
Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
After many years of freezes and low increases I find it hard to believe that this won't cause at least some swing against the Tories at the elections.0 -
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
They forgot to tell the fisher folk that obviously.Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/KKeaneBBC/status/9757072510916648960 -
They're the ones who switched from Remain to Leave when Theresa took over, sniffing where the new power resided.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
I raised this at the time that the bet was first canvassed on here. It seemed inevitable that this would be the case for the transition period and less than crystal what that meant for the bet. I think this still falls within the leave side of the bet but it is not certain.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Rules risk.AlastairMeeks said:You can still back Britain leaving the EU before the 29/03/2019 - 23:59:59 at odds against on Betfair. Quite what is supporting this price now, I have no idea.
"Unless otherwise provided in this Agreement, Union law shall be applicable to and in the United Kingdom during the transition period."
BF rules say "when the Treaties cease to apply to the UK".0 -
I've said for ages we should abolish the local spend and there should be a unified national spend limit and it is up to the parties where they spend it.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
My proposal will be a pain in the arse if you live in a marginal as you'll get bombarded but it'll avoid all these problems.0 -
Hilariously, IIRC the Independent deemed them so important as to put them on their front page (or virtual front page or whatever) alongside the others. The Liberal Party got more votes.Freggles said:
Epic, epic fail.tlg86 said:
The Women's Equality Party spent £80 a vote!rottenborough said:0 -
No. It doesn't seem too much to ask those who aspire to be legislators to work out what regulatory requirements they are obliged to comply with and stick to them. If in doubt, they should err on the side of caution.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
Just like the rest of us have to in everyday life.0 -
It would be more useful to know the amount of claimed overspends.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
I assume WEP spent more than it declared as having raised?0 -
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.0 -
I see. And is there a distinction between neo-Brexiter and neo-Brexiteer at all? (My personal useage has been Brexiteer is a more gung ho type than a mere Brexiter, the inverse of Remainer and Remoaner).Stark_Dawning said:
They're the ones who switched from Remain to Leave when Theresa took over, sniffing where the new power resided.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
That was fucked in a different way. All of the donor MR.2s were built on concrete jigs but six of them were built on the jig that wasn't square. The wing kit didn't fit the first donor (XV234) but the rest went on using the age old 'fettle to fit' techniques of the British aircraft industry.JosiasJessop said:
Wasn't that one of the problems with the Nimrod MRA4 - they were not identical, making modifications difficult?
It was all the fault of the rainbow trousered train fancier Portillo.0 -
Very interesting, thanks.Dura_Ace said:
Extra squadron or two of what? There's nobody to operate them and no room at Marham, Coningsby or Waddington.Casino_Royale said:
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
You can gauge the ambit of the RAF's goals by the privatised Military Flying Training Scheme. When I did my BFT int the late 80s they had 140 Tucanos to support the training pipeline. Now under the auspices of MFTS they have 10 Havards to fill the same role! From that you can work out how many FJ pilots they intend to wing for the FAA and RAF combined and it's not a very big number - probably not even enough to do 1:1 replacements for retirees, fatalities and quitters. Scaling this up is going to be eye wateringly expensive thanks to the strictures of the MFTS agreement.
Amusing Tucano anecdote: I was on one of the first Tucano courses and on a cold Yorkshire morning the staish came out, inspected his flight line and issued a broad spectrum bollocking because all of "his" aircraft weren't parked in a straight line. So we arsed about moving them to get all of the vertical stabs exactly aligned then we noticed that none of the prop spinners lined up. None of the a/c, which had been built with no great precision mainly by ex-shipyard workers in Belfast, were exactly the same size.0 -
Maybe but only 18 months - looking a the wider picture no hard BrexitGardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.0 -
The cynic in me thinks perhaps the parties don't have a huge incentive to unconfuse it - it puts me in mind of how professional cyclists (and probably other sports, but definitely cycling) love their grey areas where amazingly everyone has a condition which allows a certain level of a treatment which also marginally improves performance etc, a fuzziness to the line so they can step over, but not so blatantly as to become a crime in most instances.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
That same cynic finds it just a little bit implausible that so many supposedly bright individuals seem to struggle, over and over again, with the rules.
But to be fair without being aware of just how arduous and complex the rules may be for this stuff, I must tell that internal cynic I should give the benefit of the doubt. For now.0 -
For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.0 -
Rebellion = Corbyn as PM. Take your pick.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, no need for the EU to even attempt to resolve the Irish border then. And that would extend EU reach into UK territory. Surely there's going to be a rebellion over that?
0 -
What do you make of the Swedish defence procurement agency ?Dura_Ace said:
That was fucked in a different way. All of the donor MR.2s were built on concrete jigs but six of them were built on the jig that wasn't square. The wing kit didn't fit the first donor (XV234) but the rest went on using the age old 'fettle to fit' techniques of the British aircraft industry.JosiasJessop said:
Wasn't that one of the problems with the Nimrod MRA4 - they were not identical, making modifications difficult?
It was all the fault of the rainbow trousered train fancier Portillo.0 -
Isn't temporary vassalage just the old fashioned apprenticeship ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
Might just sell it that way....0 -
The name always puzzles me, what research have they actually done into europe ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.0 -
But if you don't, you'll be left in peace.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said for ages we should abolish the local spend and there should be a unified national spend limit and it is up to the parties where they spend it.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
My proposal will be a pain in the arse if you live in a marginal as you'll get bombarded but it'll avoid all these problems.0 -
If they think Corbyn as PM would, intentionally or not, lead to what they perceive to be a better Brexit, then on a long term consequences judgement then they should rebel. Corbyn would probably be terrible, but is also unlikely to have a large majority, so would be constrained.Dura_Ace said:
Rebellion = Corbyn as PM. Take your pick.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, no need for the EU to even attempt to resolve the Irish border then. And that would extend EU reach into UK territory. Surely there's going to be a rebellion over that?
0 -
How is that acceptable? Having zero say about what goes on in the UK's own waters?Gardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.0 -
During an election I want to be bothered a little. I want to feel that even in a safe seat they do a bare minimum of effort.Nigelb said:
But if you don't, you'll be left in peace.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said for ages we should abolish the local spend and there should be a unified national spend limit and it is up to the parties where they spend it.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
My proposal will be a pain in the arse if you live in a marginal as you'll get bombarded but it'll avoid all these problems.0 -
I don't know - I think they might buy it.TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
The pitch will be:
21 months of vassal state and then freedom.
Or continued vassal state in the EU.0 -
There are degrees of course.kle4 said:
I see. And is there a distinction between neo-Brexiter and neo-Brexiteer at all? (My personal useage has been Brexiteer is a more gung ho type than a mere Brexiter, the inverse of Remainer and Remoaner).Stark_Dawning said:
They're the ones who switched from Remain to Leave when Theresa took over, sniffing where the new power resided.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.
Brexiter - relatively sane, if thoroughly misguided.
Brexiteer - quite cavalier as to the impact of Brexit on the U.K. economy and security.
NeoBrexiteer - a recent convert to the cult; a Jonny-come-loony.
Brextard - lumpen, unthinking Brexitism. See Tory back benches.
Brexitloon - a full-on, foaming nutjob.
Brexistentialism - the fundamental creed of Brexiters, a form of belief immune to objective reality. (As expressed in the famous phrase, “Brexit means Brexit”).0 -
I thought the "R" was for Reform, and it seems I'm not the only one to have made that mistakePulpstar said:
The name always puzzles me, what research have they actually done into europe ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.0 -
a.k.a., democrats.Stark_Dawning said:
They're the ones who switched from Remain to Leave when Theresa took over, sniffing where the new power resided.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
Arch loyalist sycophants who switched to being pro-Leave after the result – Carlotta and HYUFD are typical examples on this particular site, but you can find other examples within government e.g. Jezza Hunt.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
Not to mention the parties pay people good money to administer these things for their candidates, among other party tasks, they should be able to find enough people who can grasp the details and advise candidates appropriately.AlastairMeeks said:
No. It doesn't seem too much to ask those who aspire to be legislators to work out what regulatory requirements they are obliged to comply with and stick to them. If in doubt, they should err on the side of caution.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Rob, don't buy the Europhile spin.RobD said:
How is that acceptable? Having zero say about what goes on in the UK's own waters?Gardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.
Quotas will be kept the same, or at least very similar, for the transition period. The UK will have to wait for "control". Sure, it will sign that away again, or at least some of it, for UK vessels' access to EU waters.0 -
I lived in the constituency that was the most phone polled constituency of the 2015 general election, it's a proposal I know that will upset a small minority but be supported by the vast majority.Nigelb said:
But if you don't, you'll be left in peace.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said for ages we should abolish the local spend and there should be a unified national spend limit and it is up to the parties where they spend it.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
My proposal will be a pain in the arse if you live in a marginal as you'll get bombarded but it'll avoid all these problems.0 -
I don't know how she did it, but Theresa appears to have decapitated the ERG by getting Rees-Mogg onside. Without him it'll just wither and die.TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.0 -
Well I suppose TMay counts as well in that case.Anazina said:
Arch loyalist sycophants who switched to being pro-Leave after the result – Carlotta and HYUFD are typical examples on this particular site, but you can find other examples within government e.g. Jezza Hunt.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
Tyrannosaurus Brex - what Nigel Farage calls himself in bed.Gardenwalker said:
There are degrees of course.kle4 said:
I see. And is there a distinction between neo-Brexiter and neo-Brexiteer at all? (My personal useage has been Brexiteer is a more gung ho type than a mere Brexiter, the inverse of Remainer and Remoaner).Stark_Dawning said:
They're the ones who switched from Remain to Leave when Theresa took over, sniffing where the new power resided.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.
Brexiter - relatively sane, if thoroughly misguided.
Brexiteer - quite cavalier as to the impact of Brexit on the U.K. economy and security.
NeoBrexiteer - a recent convert to the cult; a Jonny-come-loony.
Brextard - lumpen, unthinking Brexitism. See Tory back benches.
Brexitloon - a full-on, foaming nutjob.
Brexistentialism - the fundamental creed of Brexiters, a form of belief immune to objective reality. (As expressed in the famous phrase, “Brexit means Brexit”).0 -
It occurs to me, rightly or wrongly, that the remainers are trying to wind up the Brexiteers as they see their hopes of stopping Brexit now disappearing together with their scare talks of a hard Brexit.
I am sure some will be upset but to me TM has taken the pragmatic course which should satisfy most who just want to get it done0 -
I don't know anything about it. The current Swedish PM was the bag man on the South African Gripen deal though.Nigelb said:
What do you make of the Swedish defence procurement agency ?Dura_Ace said:
That was fucked in a different way. All of the donor MR.2s were built on concrete jigs but six of them were built on the jig that wasn't square. The wing kit didn't fit the first donor (XV234) but the rest went on using the age old 'fettle to fit' techniques of the British aircraft industry.JosiasJessop said:
Wasn't that one of the problems with the Nimrod MRA4 - they were not identical, making modifications difficult?
It was all the fault of the rainbow trousered train fancier Portillo.0 -
The real scandal will be when they are found to have spent 18% more on male voters than on female ones.Freggles said:
Epic, epic fail.tlg86 said:
The Women's Equality Party spent £80 a vote!rottenborough said:0 -
There was previously a different ERG going back to the early 80s where the R did mean reform. The current ERG was created in the 90s out of the Maastricht rebellion and was mainly a vehicle for Daniel Hannan's propaganda.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I thought the "R" was for Reform, and it seems I'm not the only one to have made that mistakePulpstar said:
The name always puzzles me, what research have they actually done into europe ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/daniel-hannan-the-man-who-brought-you-brexit0 -
I suppose the UK's concessions aren't all that bad if that is the case, and are temporary in nature. They even managed to wrangle Gibraltar into the deal!TheWhiteRabbit said:
Rob, don't buy the Europhile spin.RobD said:
How is that acceptable? Having zero say about what goes on in the UK's own waters?Gardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.
Quotas will be kept the same, or at least very similar, for the transition period. The UK will have to wait for "control". Sure, it will sign that away again, or at least some of it, for UK vessels' access to EU waters.0 -
That would have to be how the government sells it to them (whether this 'vassal' state talk is fair I have yet to determine, but we know from the initial reactions that will be a perception), although that depends if they even accept extended transition as a price worth paying. There are people who want a crash out of course, so its how many are in that category, as nothing will satisfy those people short of that.rkrkrk said:
I don't know - I think they might buy it.TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
The pitch will be:
21 months of vassal state and then freedom.
Or continued vassal state in the EU.0 -
They looked at that Europe once, and that was quite enough for them.Pulpstar said:
The name always puzzles me, what research have they actually done into europe ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.0 -
Like meMortimer said:
a.k.a., democrats.Stark_Dawning said:
They're the ones who switched from Remain to Leave when Theresa took over, sniffing where the new power resided.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
I dream of being in a competitive seat. In 2015 someone even apparently knocked on the door to canvass (from UKIP)...but I had nipped out to the shop to buy some sausages and missed them. I was devastated.TheScreamingEagles said:
I lived in the constituency that was the most phone polled constituency of the 2015 general election, it's a proposal I know that will upset a small minority but be supported by the vast majority.Nigelb said:
But if you don't, you'll be left in peace.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said for ages we should abolish the local spend and there should be a unified national spend limit and it is up to the parties where they spend it.MarqueeMark said:
Anyone think the rules might need an extensive overhaul, if everybody is confused as to what is allowed?TheScreamingEagles said:
My proposal will be a pain in the arse if you live in a marginal as you'll get bombarded but it'll avoid all these problems.0 -
So just to be clear the Staggers (and Telegraph and Sun) are wrong:williamglenn said:
There was previously a different ERG going back to the early 80s where the R did mean reform. The current ERG was created in the 90s out of the Maastricht rebellion and was mainly a vehicle for Daniel Hannan's propaganda.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I thought the "R" was for Reform, and it seems I'm not the only one to have made that mistakePulpstar said:
The name always puzzles me, what research have they actually done into europe ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/daniel-hannan-the-man-who-brought-you-brexit
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/02/theresa-may-has-picked-yet-another-brexit-fight-she-cannot-win-eu-citizens
There aren't two?0 -
Bravo.Gardenwalker said:There are degrees of course.
Brexiter - relatively sane, if thoroughly misguided.
Brexiteer - quite cavalier as to the impact of Brexit on the U.K. economy and security.
NeoBrexiteer - a recent convert to the cult; a Jonny-come-loony.
Brextard - lumpen, unthinking Brexitism. See Tory back benches.
Brexitloon - a full-on, foaming nutjob.
Brexistentialism - the fundamental creed of Brexiters, a form of belief immune to objective reality. (As expressed in the famous phrase, “Brexit means Brexit”).0 -
Yes, this is another step towards the UK leaving the EU. Only a few weeks ago we were being told that the tranisition talks might fail by the usual suspects, as usual they were wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:It occurs to me, rightly or wrongly, that the remainers are trying to wind up the Brexiteers as they see their hopes of stopping Brexit now disappearing together with their scare talks of a hard Brexit.
I am sure some will be upset but to me TM has taken the pragmatic course which should satisfy most who just want to get it done0 -
-
Not so – it's not undemocratic to hold to your principles just because they suffered a narrow defeat in a referendum. Would these types suddenly become pro-hanging were the policy approved by 51% of the electorate? Actually, they probably would.Mortimer said:
a.k.a., democrats.Stark_Dawning said:
They're the ones who switched from Remain to Leave when Theresa took over, sniffing where the new power resided.kle4 said:
I've not seen 'neobrexiteers' before - who are the neobrexiteers?Anazina said:
The brexiteers and neobrexiteers aren't going to like this package much.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
We remain in the Single Market for all intents and purposes until Christmas 2020. NI could remain indefinitely.0 -
Corbyn knowingly and deliberately presented his view as different from the Government's.TheScreamingEagles said:
He didn't even say "I agree with the Government but..." until well after the horse had bolted.0 -
Maguire is and has always been a horrid small-minded little man.TheScreamingEagles said:
Corbyn was the one who played politics with it. May played everything with a straight bat.0 -
Won't it be more to do with access to EU markets? I believe the UK currently exports 75% of our catch, 2/3 of that to the EU. Not much point in 'control' & increased catches if we can't flog it to anyone.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Rob, don't buy the Europhile spin.RobD said:
How is that acceptable? Having zero say about what goes on in the UK's own waters?Gardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.
Quotas will be kept the same, or at least very similar, for the transition period. The UK will have to wait for "control". Sure, it will sign that away again, or at least some of it, for UK vessels' access to EU waters.0 -
I've long said that the name ERG has echoes of the FRU.williamglenn said:
There was previously a different ERG going back to the early 80s where the R did mean reform. The current ERG was created in the 90s out of the Maastricht rebellion and was mainly a vehicle for Daniel Hannan's propaganda.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I thought the "R" was for Reform, and it seems I'm not the only one to have made that mistakePulpstar said:
The name always puzzles me, what research have they actually done into europe ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/daniel-hannan-the-man-who-brought-you-brexit
As to the matter at hand, apart from it being hugely embarrassing for JRM, I don't think any Brexiter should mind being the EU's bitch for a couple of years because after that, we will be free.
Unless...the transition period is extended and we end up with a GE during it; or something somehow goes wrong with Tezza's master plan and we end up with a GE during it; or JRM and the Scottish fishing industry (pop. 242) kick up a fuss and we end up with a GE during it.
You get my drift. We are in a very weak situation constitutionally (no taxation without representation) as has been noted, and it don't make for a great platform should it have to be defended at a....GE!!
Edit: and did no one apart from me pause even for a moment to consider the fact that the EU plan was discussed (even if it happened to be meeting at the time) at a WAR cabinet??0 -
Arguably the arch remainer/rejoiners should be hoping for a crash out.kle4 said:
That would have to be how the government sells it to them (whether this 'vassal' state talk is fair I have yet to determine, but we know from the initial reactions that will be a perception), although that depends if they even accept extended transition as a price worth paying. There are people who want a crash out of course, so its how many are in that category, as nothing will satisfy those people short of that.rkrkrk said:
I don't know - I think they might buy it.TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
The pitch will be:
21 months of vassal state and then freedom.
Or continued vassal state in the EU.
Best chance of a speedy re-entry I would have thought.
A transition period where things stay the same but no influence isn't going to inspire anyone to a second referendum.0 -
You must have very low expectations.RobD said:
I suppose the UK's concessions aren't all that bad if that is the case, and are temporary in nature. They even managed to wrangle Gibraltar into the deal!TheWhiteRabbit said:
Rob, don't buy the Europhile spin.RobD said:
How is that acceptable? Having zero say about what goes on in the UK's own waters?Gardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.
Quotas will be kept the same, or at least very similar, for the transition period. The UK will have to wait for "control". Sure, it will sign that away again, or at least some of it, for UK vessels' access to EU waters.
The U.K. has caved on every front. Every single one.0 -
FMV - seems quite highly thought of.Dura_Ace said:
I don't know anything about it. The current Swedish PM was the bag man on the South African Gripen deal though.Nigelb said:
What do you make of the Swedish defence procurement agency ?Dura_Ace said:
That was fucked in a different way. All of the donor MR.2s were built on concrete jigs but six of them were built on the jig that wasn't square. The wing kit didn't fit the first donor (XV234) but the rest went on using the age old 'fettle to fit' techniques of the British aircraft industry.JosiasJessop said:
Wasn't that one of the problems with the Nimrod MRA4 - they were not identical, making modifications difficult?
It was all the fault of the rainbow trousered train fancier Portillo.
http://www.fmv.se/en/Projects/0 -
Potentially.Theuniondivvie said:
Won't it be more to do with access to EU markets? I believe the UK currently exports 75% of our catch, 2/3 of that to the EU. Not much point in 'control' & increased catches if we can't flog it to anyone.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Rob, don't buy the Europhile spin.RobD said:
How is that acceptable? Having zero say about what goes on in the UK's own waters?Gardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.
Quotas will be kept the same, or at least very similar, for the transition period. The UK will have to wait for "control". Sure, it will sign that away again, or at least some of it, for UK vessels' access to EU waters.
Although that might be under the wider negotiation on all physical goods.0 -
Stupidity. It's been going on a couple of weeks, the idea that the opposition and media will go easy on the government because of this is moronic. Corbyn won't stop hammering the government about the NHS, nor will the media stop reporting about it, nor should they.TheScreamingEagles said:
I love the caption on the photo though:
Theresa May’s gravest deception is to pretend she has all the answers
Isn't that a deception peddled by all parties and pundits since the dawn of time? Even when they say they don't have all the answers, they still proffer one, which is to vote for them.
Also:
Corbyn’s faithful fear that the potential deaths of MI6 double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia – or any one else in Salisbury who came into contact with the nerve agent – would fuel the cries for a tough response against Moscow.
Why would his faithful fear this? He accepts is was probably Moscow, officially, and if someone were to die a tough response would be the very opposite of overreacting!0 -
Yes, they're wrong - Rees-Mogg is chairman of the European Research Group.TheWhiteRabbit said:
So just to be clear the Staggers (and Telegraph and Sun) are wrong:williamglenn said:
There was previously a different ERG going back to the early 80s where the R did mean reform. The current ERG was created in the 90s out of the Maastricht rebellion and was mainly a vehicle for Daniel Hannan's propaganda.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I thought the "R" was for Reform, and it seems I'm not the only one to have made that mistakePulpstar said:
The name always puzzles me, what research have they actually done into europe ?TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/daniel-hannan-the-man-who-brought-you-brexit
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/02/theresa-may-has-picked-yet-another-brexit-fight-she-cannot-win-eu-citizens
There aren't two?
The original European Reform Group is defunct as far as I'm aware. A letter with a list of its members and aims shows up in the Thatcher archives:
https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/1517220 -
As a businessperson I simply want the least damaging settlement for the longest period. So an extra two years is a decent solution, at least for now.rkrkrk said:
Arguably the arch remainer/rejoiners should be hoping for a crash out.kle4 said:
That would have to be how the government sells it to them (whether this 'vassal' state talk is fair I have yet to determine, but we know from the initial reactions that will be a perception), although that depends if they even accept extended transition as a price worth paying. There are people who want a crash out of course, so its how many are in that category, as nothing will satisfy those people short of that.rkrkrk said:
I don't know - I think they might buy it.TheScreamingEagles said:For 21 months we're going to become a vassal state.
That's going to be a hard sell to the ERG lot.
The pitch will be:
21 months of vassal state and then freedom.
Or continued vassal state in the EU.
Best chance of a speedy re-entry I would have thought.
A transition period where things stay the same but no influence isn't going to inspire anyone to a second referendum.0 -
We still don't know if on January 1st 2021 we're headed for a cliff edge or a decent deal with the EU.
If the 21 months of vassal statehood are needed to obtain the latter Mrs May should be able to sell that to the country.0 -
Quite important I would have thought
David Davis says we will be able to ratify new trade deals and can chose not to apply EU decisions if we do not agree with them during transistion0 -
This is the real point. Posturing aside nobody gives a fuck about bushy eyebrowed Scottish fishermen but this agreement extends the period of vulnerability before Brexit can be 'done and dusted'. To use a phrase favoured by those toward the bottom of the Gardenwalker Brexit Mentalness Scale.TOPPING said:
You get my drift. We are in a very weak situation constitutionally (no taxation without representation) as has been noted, and it don't make for a great platform should it have to be defended at a....GE!!0 -
If you say so. It was said during the last announcement last year too, though there was some good annotated analysis I recall which showed how we had secured 'wins', though the EU ahd secured more, and Dr Palmer is always advising that for all the froth it is a negotiation and there are fudges, even as more ardent EUphiles say things are only ever one way.Gardenwalker said:
You must have very low expectations.RobD said:
I suppose the UK's concessions aren't all that bad if that is the case, and are temporary in nature. They even managed to wrangle Gibraltar into the deal!TheWhiteRabbit said:
Rob, don't buy the Europhile spin.RobD said:
How is that acceptable? Having zero say about what goes on in the UK's own waters?Gardenwalker said:
Doesn’t sound terribly acceptable.AlastairMeeks said:
The EU is going to find the time to set the quotas:Casino_Royale said:
Only for an extra nine months. Fishing is back with the UK in full in 2020. Just not enough time to get all the new quotas agreed by 29th March 2019.TheScreamingEagles said:Confirmation Michael Gove has betrayed the fishing industry.
https://twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/975705487403560960
https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/975705889889030146
All we have done is sign up to a full-vassal transition.
Taxation without representation.
Quotas will be kept the same, or at least very similar, for the transition period. The UK will have to wait for "control". Sure, it will sign that away again, or at least some of it, for UK vessels' access to EU waters.
The U.K. has caved on every front. Every single one.0
This discussion has been closed.