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The British public has a better idea of how to deal with this than the government has. Russia isn't important enough to treat seriously and it would cause much more damage to the Russian government's amour propre to be treated with contempt rather than fear.Richard_Nabavi said:On the electoral significance, I agree with those who think it won't have a significant effect, provided there are no major new developments. It's astonishing that the public broadly seems to think that Russian state-sponsored thugs using one of the most dangerous substances known to mankind in a British town is not a danger to the UK population, but there we go.
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Garry Kasparov tweet: “Every free world leader who congratulates Putin on his ‘election’ is complicit in his global war on democracy. They undermine their own status as freely elected leaders.”0
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Except this one used a deadly nerve agent (for the first time in Europe since the war) potentially affecting hundred of british shoppers in the middle of Salisbury.david_herdson said:
Let's be honest. There's a fuss in Britain because the attack happened in Britain.MarqueeMark said:
Reading between the lines: please don't turn our gas off President Putin, Sir, PLEEEEEEASE......Gardenwalker said:https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362
Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.
Maas spoke ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels on Monday (19 March), one day after Russian leader Vladimir Putin secured six more years in power and in the wake of British allegations that Russia poisoned a former spy, Sergei Skripal, in the UK earlier this month using a form of nerve gas.
Had an ex-Russian spy, who defected to Romania, been poisoned in Romania, I doubt there'd be much interest in Britain in taking serious measures against Moscow.
Sure, other than that, the two are identical.....not.....0 -
Off topic, it looks to me like Barnier and Davis are going to announce the outlines of a transition deal this morning.
Look carefully for where both the UK and EU have moved, not just one or the other.0 -
“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.0 -
Well put, whoever wrote the piece in Die Zeit.FF43 said:Interesting polemic from Die Zeit in the context of the Skripal poisoning. The EU's weapon is an idea.
https://twitter.com/zeitonline/status/973992298328535044
It acknowledges the EU has problems, some existential ,and goes onto say:
The EU is not perfect and never can be. It will remain a work in progress forever...
We're not talking about sanitising the EU. We're talking about remembering the strengths of the EU while being aware of its problems and weaknesses. Autocratic powers are causing the EU a lot of difficulties, for sure. But we shouldn't conclude that that the race is already lost or that the EU needs these powers itself [eg dispatch an army].
The Union needs resilience, It will have it when European citizens are convinced of the idea behind it: we commit to cooperation, we set ourselves rules that shape our coexistence. We stick to the rules. We win some; we lose some, but win overall,
Ir is a very simple idea that is difficult to put into practice. It is the idea of a democratic community.0 -
This was not a McMafia-style operation commissioned by ‘rogue elements’. If they were to blame, Moscow would be even more alarmed than London.Rexel56 said:“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.0 -
Thanks for that; makes total sense.Rexel56 said:“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.0 -
Yes that's a good article.Rexel56 said:“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.
'You might not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.’
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Also "Russians view Brexit as a case of the UK cutting off its nose to spite its face"Rexel56 said:“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.0 -
Blimey, are there really grown-up people trying to claim Russia wasn't responsible? Er no. Except for some Russians and possibly Farage and Galloway.Richard_Nabavi said:Blimey, are there really grown-up people trying to claim Russia wasn't responsible?
How on earth can anyone maintain that with a straight face? You could argue that it's not proven that Russia was responsible (although that does involve some fairly heroic assumptions), were it not for the Russian government's sneering reaction to the incident, which puts their guilt beyond any doubt. If they were acting in good faith, their reaction would have been completely different.
@MarqueeMark had it right upthread: the curious feature here is why some people are so desperate for there to be an alternative explanation. Those people should take a long hard look at their own motives.
I think the problem is balancing, on the one hand, solidarity and not letting the Russians off the hook when it is obvious they did it, and on the other hand, exploring other remote possibilities.
We know the potential problem caused by jumping to a certain conclusion and refusing to even consider other possibilities. Professional investigators, eg police, engineers, are taught to avoid this trap.
It is possible that the PM has information on how the nerve agent was applied and Mt Stripal's recent activities that put it beyond reasonable doubt. That information has not been shared with us and possibly not with Mr Corbyn.
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That article doesn't offer anything new: the EU will work when all of Europe's citizens agree with its vision of More Europe is an old canard.FF43 said:Interesting polemic from Die Zeit in the context of the Skripal poisoning. The EU's weapon is an idea.
https://twitter.com/zeitonline/status/973992298328535044
It acknowledges the EU has problems, some existential ,and goes onto say:
The EU is not perfect and never can be. It will remain a work in progress forever...
We're not talking about sanitising the EU. We're talking about remembering the strengths of the EU while being aware of its problems and weaknesses. Autocratic powers are causing the EU a lot of difficulties, for sure. But we shouldn't conclude that that the race is already lost or that the EU needs these powers itself [eg dispatch an army].
The Union needs resilience, It will have it when European citizens are convinced of the idea behind it: we commit to cooperation, we set ourselves rules that shape our coexistence. We stick to the rules. We win some; we lose some, but win overall,
Ir is a very simple idea that is difficult to put into practice. It is the idea of a democratic community.0 -
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
No, there’s nothing bonkers about it at all. It’s perfectly possible for there to be a looser European association of sovereign nation states that do not pursue ever closer union, and respect the wishes of their electorates, but retain regional cooperation.Gardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I will never forgive Boris Johnson and Michael Gove for the useful idiocy of rhetoric like this. The script may as well have come from the Kremlin.Casino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The EU could be better. So by all accounts, could Northamptonshire County Council, but my cold analysis of the EU is that it’s about as democratic as I’d want it to be: a parliament, that supports the key roles, but with most power held by the heads of state that derive legitimacy from each respective national demos. With the notable exception of Brexit, the EU enjoys popular consent, too.
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.0 -
The Tories will struggle to play the low tax card in these local elections, given that most councils are putting up council tax by 5% this year, and most councils right now are Tory controlled.HYUFD said:
True but many wealthy West Londoners are also afraid of the hard Left taxing them to the hilt
*Genuine question to someone not as biased as HYUFD*
Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
After many years of freezes and low increases I find it hard to believe that this won't cause at least some swing against the Tories at the elections.
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I think your last paragraph highlights the core of the issue and that Corbyn is considered a security risk at the highest levels. He will have received privvy council briefings but not the detail provided by our security services to the Prime MinisterBarnesian said:
Blimey, are there really grown-up people trying to claim Russia wasn't responsible? Er no. Except for some Russians and possibly Farage and Galloway.Richard_Nabavi said:Blimey, are there really grown-up people trying to claim Russia wasn't responsible?
How on earth can anyone maintain that with a straight face? You could argue that it's not proven that Russia was responsible (although that does involve some fairly heroic assumptions), were it not for the Russian government's sneering reaction to the incident, which puts their guilt beyond any doubt. If they were acting in good faith, their reaction would have been completely different.
@MarqueeMark had it right upthread: the curious feature here is why some people are so desperate for there to be an alternative explanation. Those people should take a long hard look at their own motives.
I think the problem is balancing, on the one hand, solidarity and not letting the Russians off the hook when it is obvious they did it, and on the other hand, exploring other remote possibilities.
We know the potential problem caused by jumping to a certain conclusion and refusing to even consider other possibilities. Professional investigators, eg police, engineers, are taught to avoid this trap.
It is possible that the PM has information on how the nerve agent was applied and Mt Stripal's recent activities that put it beyond reasonable doubt. That information has not been shared with us and possibly not with Mr Corbyn.0 -
Excellent articleRexel56 said:“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.0 -
Pretty smart, those Russians.logical_song said:
Also "Russians view Brexit as a case of the UK cutting off its nose to spite its face"Rexel56 said:“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.0 -
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I will never forgive Boris Johnson and Michael Gove for the useful idiocy of rhetoric like this. The script may as well have come from the Kremlin.Casino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The EU could be better. So by all accounts, could Northamptonshire County Council, but my cold analysis of the EU is that it’s about as democratic as I’d want it to be: a parliament, that supports the key roles, but with most power held by the heads of state that derive legitimacy from each respective national demos. With the notable exception of Brexit, the EU enjoys popular consent, too.
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.
That doesn't make my point of view bonkers.0 -
I'd doubt it.HHemmelig said:
The Tories will struggle to play the low tax card in these local elections, given that most councils are putting up council tax by 5% this year, and most councils right now are Tory controlled.HYUFD said:
True but many wealthy West Londoners are also afraid of the hard Left taxing them to the hilt
*Genuine question to someone not as biased as HYUFD*
Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
After many years of freezes and low increases I find it hard to believe that this won't cause at least some swing against the Tories at the elections.
The passed (Labour) and alternative (rejected - Tory) budgets for Coventry both increased council tax by just under 5%.0 -
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
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Gardenwalker said:
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
No, there’s nothing bonkers about it at all. It’s perfectly possible for there to be a looser European association of sovereign nation states that do not pursue ever closer union, and respect the wishes of their electorates, but retain regional cooperation.Gardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I will never forgive Boris Johnson and Michael Gove for the useful idiocy of rhetoric like this. The script may as well have come from the Kremlin.Casino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The EU could be better. So by all accounts, could Northamptonshire County Council, but my cold analysis of the EU is that it’s about as democratic as I’d want it to be: a parliament, that supports the key roles, but with most power held by the heads of state that derive legitimacy from each respective national demos. With the notable exception of Brexit, the EU enjoys popular consent, too.
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.</blockquote
No, sorry but this is nonsense.0 -
It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I will never forgive Boris Johnson and Michael Gove for the useful idiocy of rhetoric like this. The script may as well have come from the Kremlin.Casino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The EU could be better. So by all accounts, could Northamptonshire County Council, but my cold analysis of the EU is that it’s about as democratic as I’d want it to be: a parliament, that supports the key roles, but with most power held by the heads of state that derive legitimacy from each respective national demos. With the notable exception of Brexit, the EU enjoys popular consent, too.
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.
That doesn't make my point of view bonkers.0 -
Theresa May spent close to 19 million quid and lost Dave's majority in an unnecessary general election.
Take a bow Theresa, take a bow.0 -
Dunno. LibDems spent £565k per MP returnedTheScreamingEagles said:
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Agreed, but the electorate are unforgiving and generally not very well informed about detail. Are we seeing much campaigning from opposition parties on "we would not have increased council tax by 5%"? In particular I'd have thought the Lib Dems would be happy jumping on that kind of bandwagon. In Tory outer London & the home counties you also have extremely unpopular housebuilding developments being forced through at the moment.Richard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
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PS: what is undemocratic about the EU and what would you do to make it more democratic?Gardenwalker said:
It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginningCasino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The EU could be better. So by all accounts, could Northamptonshire County Council, but my cold analysis of the EU is that it’s about as democratic as I’d want it to be: a parliament, that supports the key roles, but with most power held by the heads of state that derive legitimacy from each respective national demos. With the notable exception of Brexit, the EU enjoys popular consent, too.
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.
That doesn't make my point of view bonkers.0 -
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I will never forgive Boris Johnson and Michael Gove for the useful idiocy of rhetoric like this. The script may as well have come from the Kremlin.Casino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The EU could be better. So by all accounts, could Northamptonshire County Council, but my cold analysis of the EU is that it’s about as democratic as I’d want it to be: a parliament, that supports the key roles, but with most power held by the heads of state that derive legitimacy from each respective national demos. With the notable exception of Brexit, the EU enjoys popular consent, too.
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.0 -
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:
It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I will never forgive Boris Johnson and Michael Gove for the useful idiocy of rhetoric like this. The script may as well have come from the Kremlin.Casino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.
That doesn't make my point of view bonkers.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.0 -
They'd have been better off using the money to bribe voters in key seats.rottenborough said:0 -
Rather than follow the money - follow the nerve agent.Barnesian said:
Blimey, are there really grown-up people trying to claim Russia wasn't responsible? Er no. Except for some Russians and possibly Farage and Galloway.Richard_Nabavi said:Blimey, are there really grown-up people trying to claim Russia wasn't responsible?
How on earth can anyone maintain that with a straight face? You could argue that it's not proven that Russia was responsible (although that does involve some fairly heroic assumptions), were it not for the Russian government's sneering reaction to the incident, which puts their guilt beyond any doubt. If they were acting in good faith, their reaction would have been completely different.
@MarqueeMark had it right upthread: the curious feature here is why some people are so desperate for there to be an alternative explanation. Those people should take a long hard look at their own motives.
I think the problem is balancing, on the one hand, solidarity and not letting the Russians off the hook when it is obvious they did it, and on the other hand, exploring other remote possibilities.
We know the potential problem caused by jumping to a certain conclusion and refusing to even consider other possibilities. Professional investigators, eg police, engineers, are taught to avoid this trap.
It is possible that the PM has information on how the nerve agent was applied and Mt Stripal's recent activities that put it beyond reasonable doubt. That information has not been shared with us and possibly not with Mr Corbyn.0 -
Barnesian said:
Excellent articleRexel56 said:“There can be little doubt that the Russian government is behind the attempted assassination of double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. While there were the typical official denials, the Russian state has ways of communicating its innocence to foreign governments. In this case, it has not done so.”
An interesting piece, apologies if it has been posted before. Contains details on the Russian attitude to the UK that I wasn’t aware of:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/skripal-attack-test-uk
Edit to add quote.
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The best thing about the upcoming reversal of Brexit is that it will put an end to smug British sneering at other countries for having the maturity to think again about these issues, as if they are lesser democracies.Casino_Royale said:
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.0 -
Mark Stone reporting from Brussels that he thinks the transistion agreement has now been agreed.
Important moment if true - fingers crossed
Just noticed strong upward movement in the pound against both the dollar and euro0 -
I think the Leave vote was a protest against cooperation and rules. Brexit's biggest contradiction is that the UK needs cooperation and rules. I believe William is correct on the principle. The only way that contradiction can be resolved is by the UK rejoining the European Union. However I don't think it's going to happen. We will need to live with the contradiction.FF43 said:Interesting polemic from Die Zeit in the context of the Skripal poisoning. The EU's weapon is an idea.
https://twitter.com/zeitonline/status/973992298328535044
It acknowledges the EU has problems, some existential ,and goes onto say:
The EU is not perfect and never can be. It will remain a work in progress forever...
We're not talking about sanitising the EU. We're talking about remembering the strengths of the EU while being aware of its problems and weaknesses. Autocratic powers are causing the EU a lot of difficulties, for sure. But we shouldn't conclude that that the race is already lost or that the EU needs these powers itself [eg dispatch an army].
The Union needs resilience, It will have it when European citizens are convinced of the idea behind it: we commit to cooperation, we set ourselves rules that shape our coexistence. We stick to the rules. We win some; we lose some, but win overall,
Ir is a very simple idea that is difficult to put into practice. It is the idea of a democratic community.
0 -
Press conference at 12 apparently.Casino_Royale said:Off topic, it looks to me like Barnier and Davis are going to announce the outlines of a transition deal this morning.
Look carefully for where both the UK and EU have moved, not just one or the other.0 -
Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.0 -
Checks calendar....no, not for another 13 days.....williamglenn said:
The best thing about the upcoming reversal of Brexit is that it will put an end to smug British sneering at other countries for having the maturity to think again about these issues, as if they are lesser democracies.Casino_Royale said:
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.
0 -
Is there an easy to understand explanation of where Defence spending actually goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
I mean, I couldn't even tell you if MI5 and MI6 are defence or foreign or something else (or one of each) - let alone less high profile efforts0 -
The Women's Equality Party spent £80 a vote!rottenborough said:0 -
I'm well aware of where the wall was built. But the thinking for centuries was much the same: the frozen north is a barren wasteland sparsely populated by uncultured nomads, and as such, of little interest apart from the nuisance they cause from time to time. That the border now is further north than it was at a time when the Roman Empire had yet to be born, never mind the Russian one, doesn't change the main point that Siberia has never really been within China's sphere.Rebourne_Fluffy said:
Please look at a map: In which countries does the 'Great Wall' exist? Does it follow the Amur river or the borders of Outer-Mongolia?david_herdson said:
Not really. That wall was there for a reason. Though I think I remember reading that the Chinese are settling parts of Siberia in ways not dissimilar to what's happening in Africa - settlements of Chinese labourers working in mineral extraction for sale back to China. it's something of a dilemma for Moscow, which needs to sell but can't afford China to gain too much of a foothold (unlike in Africa, where the classic process of heavy investment / settlement / military installations is well underway).Rebourne_Fluffy said:Re: Chinese perceptions of Europe.
The elephant-in-the-room has been missed: Russia's eastern border. Maybe Chinese mentality sees the Turkic/Mongol lands as part of their sphere (or the map is too cut).0 -
There are plenty of papers out there in the MoD, or you could read the 2015 SDSR.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Is there an easy to understand explanation of where Defence spending actually goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
I mean, I couldn't even tell you if MI5 and MI6 are defence or foreign or something else (or one of each) - let alone less high profile efforts
Short version: the UK spends an awful lot on R&D and cutting edge tech/kit, and then cuts back on personnel and quantity when it becomes unaffordable. Plus, the MoD have historically been piss-poor at contract/procurement management, and worship bureaucracy.0 -
The EU: Better than nothingwilliamglenn said:
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’s not a cheap shot, it’s an accurate assessment of the argument.Casino_Royale said:
The fact you aren’t able to respond with anything other than cheap shots shows the paucity of your thinking.Gardenwalker said:
You seem to be agreeing with the idea that Brexit may lead to the “democratic liberation of the continent”.Casino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I will never forgive Boris Johnson and Michael Gove for the useful idiocy of rhetoric like this. The script may as well have come from the Kremlin.Casino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
To take another example, so did Erdogan in Turkey. Yet he has spent a few years 'moulding' the press, civil service, military and others into a state that favours him. In this, he's learnt lessons fromgeoffw said:
Beware politicians who want to grab more powers.
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes, that’s bonkers.
What a shame. I thought you were a better poster than that.
I didn’t even add the line from Johnson and Gove that implicitly likens the EU to Nazi Germany.
The EU c
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.
I must say sometimes leavers do a better job selling the idea of the EU (whether an idealised version of what it could have been, or even the reality) than you, who present it as some kind of depressing, crushing inevitability of history and life.0 -
Yep. The only legitimate form of democracy is the one that gives the right answer to the European vision and, if it doesn't, is asked to think again until it does.williamglenn said:
The best thing about the upcoming reversal of Brexit is that it will put an end to smug British sneering at other countries for having the maturity to think again about these issues, as if they are lesser democracies.Casino_Royale said:
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.0 -
It does. All the same, the point remains: were the attack in Slatina rather than Salisbury, how many of the British politicians and commentators currently being outraged would rationalise it as "what Russia does" against "someone who was a clear target" and leave it at a few condemnatory words?geoffw said:
I think this one has more purchase because of the use of a nerve agent.david_herdson said:
Let's be honest. There's a fuss in Britain because the attack happened in Britain.MarqueeMark said:
Reading between the lines: please don't turn our gas off President Putin, Sir, PLEEEEEEASE......Gardenwalker said:https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362
Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.
Maas spoke ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels on Monday (19 March), one day after Russian leader Vladimir Putin secured six more years in power and in the wake of British allegations that Russia poisoned a former spy, Sergei Skripal, in the UK earlier this month using a form of nerve gas.
Had an ex-Russian spy, who defected to Romania, been poisoned in Romania, I doubt there'd be much interest in Britain in taking serious measures against Moscow.0 -
That's bad.... but funny.david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:0 -
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:0 -
Oh dear ... PB Tories are getting excited again by guns and bombs.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Is there an easy to understand explanation of where Defence spending actually goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
I mean, I couldn't even tell you if MI5 and MI6 are defence or foreign or something else (or one of each) - let alone less high profile efforts
Neutral Ireland spends 0.6%, admittedly they seem to think it's not quite enough
Neutral Sweden spends 1%
Neutral Finland spends 1.3%
Neutral Switzerland and Austria? No idea, maybe a bit more; the Swiss have always been very thorough in everything.
The UK spends ... what's that, 2%?
Let's have a target for spending on the NHS of 10%. That would have ~1,000x more benefits than inflating what is already ample defence spending (except to the warmongers of NATO, an organisation which lost its purpose in ~1991 and has been struggling to find a role).0 -
The only Chinese issue to their North (and sometimes it was a very significant one) was with Mongols. Otherwise, as Mr Herdson says, the land was only of interest to the people who lived there.david_herdson said:
I'm well aware of where the wall was built. But the thinking for centuries was much the same: the frozen north is a barren wasteland sparsely populated by uncultured nomads, and as such, of little interest apart from the nuisance they cause from time to time. That the border now is further north than it was at a time when the Roman Empire had yet to be born, never mind the Russian one, doesn't change the main point that Siberia has never really been within China's sphere.Rebourne_Fluffy said:
Please look at a map: In which countries does the 'Great Wall' exist? Does it follow the Amur river or the borders of Outer-Mongolia?david_herdson said:
Not really. That wall was there for a reason. Though I think I remember reading that the Chinese are settling parts of Siberia in ways not dissimilar to what's happening in Africa - settlements of Chinese labourers working in mineral extraction for sale back to China. it's something of a dilemma for Moscow, which needs to sell but can't afford China to gain too much of a foothold (unlike in Africa, where the classic process of heavy investment / settlement / military installations is well underway).Rebourne_Fluffy said:Re: Chinese perceptions of Europe.
The elephant-in-the-room has been missed: Russia's eastern border. Maybe Chinese mentality sees the Turkic/Mongol lands as part of their sphere (or the map is too cut).0 -
I expect Nigel Farage would be actively praising it as the action of a bold and decisive government.david_herdson said:
It does. All the same, the point remains: were the attack in Slatina rather than Salisbury, how many of the British politicians and commentators currently being outraged would rationalise it as "what Russia does" against "someone who was a clear target" and leave it at a few condemnatory words?geoffw said:
I think this one has more purchase because of the use of a nerve agent.david_herdson said:
Let's be honest. There's a fuss in Britain because the attack happened in Britain.MarqueeMark said:
Reading between the lines: please don't turn our gas off President Putin, Sir, PLEEEEEEASE......Gardenwalker said:https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362
Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.
Maas spoke ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels on Monday (19 March), one day after Russian leader Vladimir Putin secured six more years in power and in the wake of British allegations that Russia poisoned a former spy, Sergei Skripal, in the UK earlier this month using a form of nerve gas.
Had an ex-Russian spy, who defected to Romania, been poisoned in Romania, I doubt there'd be much interest in Britain in taking serious measures against Moscow.0 -
What the UK needs (but doesn’t have) is about 50 anti-ship bombers that are equivalent to the Russian Tu-22M:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-22M
We also need a modern anti-ship missile to replace the elderly Harpoon.
I don’t think there’s a suitable product on the market, so it would be a nice present for BAE Systems, and we could hopefully sell a few to Australia and Japan.0 -
The tone of Farage's comment on May's response was bizarre.AlastairMeeks said:
I expect Nigel Farage would be actively praising it as the action of a bold and decisive government.david_herdson said:
It does. All the same, the point remains: were the attack in Slatina rather than Salisbury, how many of the British politicians and commentators currently being outraged would rationalise it as "what Russia does" against "someone who was a clear target" and leave it at a few condemnatory words?geoffw said:
I think this one has more purchase because of the use of a nerve agent.david_herdson said:
Let's be honest. There's a fuss in Britain because the attack happened in Britain.MarqueeMark said:
Reading between the lines: please don't turn our gas off President Putin, Sir, PLEEEEEEASE......Gardenwalker said:https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362
Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.
Maas spoke ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels on Monday (19 March), one day after Russian leader Vladimir Putin secured six more years in power and in the wake of British allegations that Russia poisoned a former spy, Sergei Skripal, in the UK earlier this month using a form of nerve gas.
Had an ex-Russian spy, who defected to Romania, been poisoned in Romania, I doubt there'd be much interest in Britain in taking serious measures against Moscow.
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/9739162120601886730 -
I do. The EU could have pursued a flexiunion - where different categories and tiers of membership were available to European nations - and where future treaties were amended only to alter voting weights as members and population waxed and waned. I would have focussed on more unanimity, and less QMV, instigated mechanisms to return/increase powers to nation states, rather than always federalise, and focussed the EU on a core objective of being a flexible international alliance, not one seeking to form a new country called Europe.williamglenn said:
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’sCasino_Royale said:
The fact .Gardenwalker said:
YouCasino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I willCasino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes.
The
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.
More broadly, the EEC/EC could have pursued a different path after the fall of the Berlin Wall, from which, and WWII, much of the imperative for federalism derived, and left the goal of economic and political union behind, together with the paranoia of restraining a newly reunified Germany, whilst focussing on an ambitious and flexible free trade zone that was a broad enough church for all to be comfortable with.0 -
Every cultist should have one
http://www.corbynjug.co.uk/product/jeremy-corbyn-toby-jug-limited-edition-brown-jacket-red-tie/0 -
Quite. but the late Adolf took a while in getting round to it. Though I suspect that if Britain and France hadn’t intervened to ‘help’ Poland the Germas might well have crashed on further East.david_herdson said:
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:
Is there a counter-factual anywhere where that happened?0 -
Time to raid the magic money tree? What goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.0 -
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/A-short-guide-to-the-Ministry-of-Defence.pdfCasino_Royale said:
There are plenty of papers out there in the MoD, or you could read the 2015 SDSR.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Is there an easy to understand explanation of where Defence spending actually goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
I mean, I couldn't even tell you if MI5 and MI6 are defence or foreign or something else (or one of each) - let alone less high profile efforts
Short version: the UK spends an awful lot on R&D and cutting edge tech/kit, and then cuts back on personnel and quantity when it becomes unaffordable. Plus, the MoD have historically been piss-poor at contract/procurement management, and worship bureaucracy.
seems like the best0 -
And they knew it, which is why the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact should be put in the context of the Munich agreement having already been broken with impunity.david_herdson said:
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:0 -
£36.95 per each.JonnyJimmy said:Every cultist should have one
http://www.corbynjug.co.uk/product/jeremy-corbyn-toby-jug-limited-edition-brown-jacket-red-tie/0 -
Extra squadron or two of what? There's nobody to operate them and no room at Marham, Coningsby or Waddington.Casino_Royale said:
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
You can gauge the ambit of the RAF's goals by the privatised Military Flying Training Scheme. When I did my BFT int the late 80s they had 140 Tucanos to support the training pipeline. Now under the auspices of MFTS they have 10 Havards to fill the same role! From that you can work out how many FJ pilots they intend to wing for the FAA and RAF combined and it's not a very big number - probably not even enough to do 1:1 replacements for retirees, fatalities and quitters. Scaling this up is going to be eye wateringly expensive thanks to the strictures of the MFTS agreement.
Amusing Tucano anecdote: I was on one of the first Tucano courses and on a cold Yorkshire morning the staish came out, inspected his flight line and issued a broad spectrum bollocking because all of "his" aircraft weren't parked in a straight line. So we arsed about moving them to get all of the vertical stabs exactly aligned then we noticed that none of the prop spinners lined up. None of the a/c, which had been built with no great precision mainly by ex-shipyard workers in Belfast, were exactly the same size.0 -
Another one of those Brexit myths.Casino_Royale said:
Yep. The only legitimate form of democracy is the one that gives the right answer to the European vision and, if it doesn't, is asked to think again until it does.williamglenn said:
The best thing about the upcoming reversal of Brexit is that it will put an end to smug British sneering at other countries for having the maturity to think again about these issues, as if they are lesser democracies.Casino_Royale said:
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.0 -
In order to win, the Germans really needed to reignite the Russian civil war, by turning the Baltic peoples, Ukranians, White Russians, and those who had suffered at Communist hands against their rulers. The bestial behaviour they meted out to the local populations prevented that from happening.OldKingCole said:
Quite. but the late Adolf took a while in getting round to it. Though I suspect that if Britain and France hadn’t intervened to ‘help’ Poland the Germas might well have crashed on further East.david_herdson said:
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:
Is there a counter-factual anywhere where that happened?0 -
The perils of imperial nationalism haven't gone away - Brexit and Putin prove it. The EU is more relevant than ever and our inability to come up with an alternative practical way of delivering a frictionless border in Northern Ireland is the most tangible example of this. For all people like you rage against political integration, you're not willing to give up its benefits.Casino_Royale said:
I do. The EU could have pursued a flexiunion - where different categories and tiers of membership were available to European nations - and where future treaties were amended only to alter voting weights as members and population waxed and waned. I would have focussed on more unanimity, and less QMV, instigated mechanisms to return/increase powers to nation states, rather than always federalise, and focussed the EU on a core objective of being a flexible international alliance, not one seeking to form a new country called Europe.williamglenn said:
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’sCasino_Royale said:
The fact .Gardenwalker said:
YouCasino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I willCasino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes.
The
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.
More broadly, the EEC/EC could have pursued a different path after the fall of the Berlin Wall, from which, and WWII, much of the imperative for federalism derived, and left the goal of economic and political union behind, together with the paranoia of restraining a newly reunified Germany, whilst focussing on an ambitious and flexible free trade zone that was a broad enough church for all to be comfortable with.0 -
Where's the hat/lid ?JonnyJimmy said:Every cultist should have one
http://www.corbynjug.co.uk/product/jeremy-corbyn-toby-jug-limited-edition-brown-jacket-red-tie/0 -
A hammer and sickle would look nice on the handle.Nigelb said:
Where's the hat/lid ?JonnyJimmy said:Every cultist should have one
http://www.corbynjug.co.uk/product/jeremy-corbyn-toby-jug-limited-edition-brown-jacket-red-tie/0 -
You make the EU sound like a kind of unpleasant medicine, which we have to take whether we like it or not.williamglenn said:
The perils of imperial nationalism haven't gone away - Brexit and Putin prove it. The EU is more relevant than ever and our inability to come up with an alternative practical way of delivering a border in Northern Ireland is the most tangible example of this. For all people like you rage against political integration, you're not willing to give up its benefits.Casino_Royale said:
s and flexible free trade zone that was a broad enough church for all to be comfortable with.williamglenn said:
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’sCasino_Royale said:
The fact .Gardenwalker said:
YouCasino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I willCasino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes.
The
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.0 -
Decisive step on transistion according to Barnier0
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Indeed that is the great paradox of Brexit. One can only wonder what the reaction will be when the brexiteers and neobrexiteers find themselves being terribly inconvenienced by queues at airports, seaports and international railway stations – if indeed they are the brand of brexiteer that can tolerate 'that foreign muck' at all.williamglenn said:
The perils of imperial nationalism haven't gone away - Brexit and Putin prove it. The EU is more relevant than ever and our inability to come up with an alternative practical way of delivering a border in Northern Ireland is the most tangible example of this. For all people like you rage against political integration, you're not willing to give up its benefits.Casino_Royale said:
I do. The EU could have pursued a flexiunion - blah blah bloody blahwilliamglenn said:
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’sCasino_Royale said:
The fact .Gardenwalker said:
YouCasino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I willCasino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes.
The
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.0 -
I'm quite impressed with the student's enterprise:JonnyJimmy said:Every cultist should have one
http://www.corbynjug.co.uk/product/jeremy-corbyn-toby-jug-limited-edition-brown-jacket-red-tie/
http://www.corbynjug.co.uk/about/0 -
Essex is also increasing council tax to pay for more policeRichard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
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Indeed; one of the worst decisions in history, to start off treating the Ukranians etc badly. Once the Soviets had been driven back to the Urals would have made more sense. After all, the Ukranians especially were often happy to sign up to back the Germans, and the Lithuanians weren’t a lot better.Sean_F said:
In order to win, the Germans really needed to reignite the Russian civil war, by turning the Baltic peoples, Ukranians, White Russians, and those who had suffered at Communist hands against their rulers. The bestial behaviour they meted out to the local populations prevented that from happening.OldKingCole said:
Quite. but the late Adolf took a while in getting round to it. Though I suspect that if Britain and France hadn’t intervened to ‘help’ Poland the Germas might well have crashed on further East.david_herdson said:
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:
Is there a counter-factual anywhere where that happened?0 -
Every day is 1 April in the deranged world of the sycophantic Mayite neobrexiteers.CarlottaVance said:
Checks calendar....no, not for another 13 days.....williamglenn said:
The best thing about the upcoming reversal of Brexit is that it will put an end to smug British sneering at other countries for having the maturity to think again about these issues, as if they are lesser democracies.Casino_Royale said:
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.0 -
Paid for from the increased tax take from the Brexit GDP boost.Jonathan said:
Time to raid the magic money tree? What goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.0 -
I think as I’ve outlined there it would be affordable over a phased period to 2025.Jonathan said:
Time to raid the magic money tree? What goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
I hope you’d at least credit me with not being naive about public finances. I appreciate you might chose to make alternative spending decisions with the money.0 -
It seems Russia regards the UK as a kind of guinea pig to test how far they can go. First polonium, then body in zipped bag, then falls from balconies, then self-strangulation suicides and now a nerve agent. There is a catalogue that would also alarm us if these things happened in France or Germany.david_herdson said:
It does. All the same, the point remains: were the attack in Slatina rather than Salisbury, how many of the British politicians and commentators currently being outraged would rationalise it as "what Russia does" against "someone who was a clear target" and leave it at a few condemnatory words?geoffw said:
I think this one has more purchase because of the use of a nerve agent.david_herdson said:
Let's be honest. There's a fuss in Britain because the attack happened in Britain.MarqueeMark said:
Reading between the lines: please don't turn our gas off President Putin, Sir, PLEEEEEEASE......Gardenwalker said:https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362
Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.
Maas spoke ahead of a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels on Monday (19 March), one day after Russian leader Vladimir Putin secured six more years in power and in the wake of British allegations that Russia poisoned a former spy, Sergei Skripal, in the UK earlier this month using a form of nerve gas.
Had an ex-Russian spy, who defected to Romania, been poisoned in Romania, I doubt there'd be much interest in Britain in taking serious measures against Moscow.
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Not only porn stars, but also... White House staff:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-nondisclosure-agreements-came-with-him-to-the-white-house/2018/03/18/226f4522-29ee-11e8-b79d-f3d931db7f68_story.html?
...Every president inveighs against leakers and bemoans the kiss-and-tell books; no president, to my knowledge, has attempted to impose such a pledge. And while White House staffers have various confidentiality obligations — maintaining the secrecy of classified information or attorney-client privilege, for instance — the notion of imposing a side agreement, supposedly enforceable even after the president leaves office, is not only oppressive but constitutionally repugnant...0 -
No problem. We all go on holiday to Clacton and Skegness.Anazina said:
Indeed that is the great paradox of Brexit. One can only wonder what the reaction will be when the brexiteers and neobrexiteers find themselves being terribly inconvenienced by queues at airports, seaports and international railway stations – if indeed they are the brand of brexiteer that can tolerate 'that foreign muck' at all.williamglenn said:
The perils of imperial nationalism haven't gone away - Brexit and Putin prove it. The EU is more relevant than ever and our inability to come up with an alternative practical way of delivering a border in Northern Ireland is the most tangible example of this. For all people like you rage against political integration, you're not willing to give up its benefits.Casino_Royale said:
I do. The EU could have pursued a flexiunion - blah blah bloody blahwilliamglenn said:
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’sCasino_Royale said:
The fact .Gardenwalker said:
YouCasino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I willCasino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes.
The
Simply claiming that the EU is undemocratic is meaningless. What you actually mean is you don’t agree with the EU’s guiding mission.0 -
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Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea and Wandsworth though have notoriously low levels of council tax, substantial surpluses and less need to raise council tax to fund social care and the police etc. If they went Labour council tax would almost certainly go upHHemmelig said:
The Tories will struggle to play the low tax card in these local elections, given that most councils are putting up council tax by 5% this year, and most councils right now are Tory controlled.HYUFD said:
True but many wealthy West Londoners are also afraid of the hard Left taxing them to the hilt
*Genuine question to someone not as biased as HYUFD*
Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
After many years of freezes and low increases I find it hard to believe that this won't cause at least some swing against the Tories at the elections.0 -
I think that’s a ridiculous post.williamglenn said:
The perils of imperial nationalism haven't gone away - Brexit and Putin prove it. The EU is more relevant than ever and our inability to come up with an alternative practical way of delivering a frictionless border in Northern Ireland is the most tangible example of this. For all people like you rage against political integration, you're not willing to give up its benefits.Casino_Royale said:
I do. The EU could have pursued a flexiunion - where different categories and tiers of membership were available to European nations - and where future treaties were amended only to alter voting weights as members and population waxed and waned. I would have focussed on more unanimity, and less QMV, instigated mechanisms to return/increase powers to nation states, rather than always federalise, and focussed the EU on a core objective of being a flexible international alliance, not one seeking to form a new country called Europe.williamglenn said:
You don't have a better alternative. Nobody does.Casino_Royale said:
You're happy with both the level of democracy in the EU and its mission; I am not.Gardenwalker said:
It’sCasino_Royale said:
The fact .Gardenwalker said:
YouCasino_Royale said:
NoGardenwalker said:
Utterly bonkers.Casino_Royale said:
ratic Europe.williamglenn said:
I willCasino_Royale said:JosiasJessop said:
For Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/19/eu-referendum-brexit-michael-gove-george-osborne-live/
But, that’s why the EU is so worried about Brexit being seen to be a success.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them mad.
Yes.
The
Simply.
More broadly, the EEC/EC could have pursued a different path after the fall of the Berlin Wall, from which, and WWII, much of the imperative for federalism derived, and left the goal of economic and political union behind, together with the paranoia of restraining a newly reunified Germany, whilst focussing on an ambitious and flexible free trade zone that was a broad enough church for all to be comfortable with.0 -
Deal done on Citizens rights0
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I recall that there's a Russian historian, Suvorov, whose thesis is that Barbarossa was a preemptive strike by Hitler to prevent Stalin attacking Germany after being weakened by war with the Western allies.OldKingCole said:
Quite. but the late Adolf took a while in getting round to it. Though I suspect that if Britain and France hadn’t intervened to ‘help’ Poland the Germas might well have crashed on further East.david_herdson said:
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:
Is there a counter-factual anywhere where that happened?
On checking Wiki, I see Suvorov was formerly GRU and defected to the UK in 1978.
Watch how you go, comrade.0 -
I’m afraid it’s a fact.Gardenwalker said:
Another one of those Brexit myths.Casino_Royale said:
Yep. The only legitimate form of democracy is the one that gives the right answer to the European vision and, if it doesn't, is asked to think again until it does.williamglenn said:
The best thing about the upcoming reversal of Brexit is that it will put an end to smug British sneering at other countries for having the maturity to think again about these issues, as if they are lesser democracies.Casino_Royale said:
Which I didn't say.Gardenwalker said:It does if you then go on to agree that Brexit will liberate the continent just like our boys did in 45.
Brexit may well provide the impetus for the EU to reform itself so, in future, it responds to the attitudes of its citizens within its member states rather than imposing treaties on them under a new name when they reject the original proposals through referenda.0 -
I mean as a lawyer I owe my clients confidentiality until my death.Nigelb said:Not only porn stars, but also... White House staff:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-nondisclosure-agreements-came-with-him-to-the-white-house/2018/03/18/226f4522-29ee-11e8-b79d-f3d931db7f68_story.html?
...Every president inveighs against leakers and bemoans the kiss-and-tell books; no president, to my knowledge, has attempted to impose such a pledge. And while White House staffers have various confidentiality obligations — maintaining the secrecy of classified information or attorney-client privilege, for instance — the notion of imposing a side agreement, supposedly enforceable even after the president leaves office, is not only oppressive but constitutionally repugnant...
It's easy to see why.0 -
Let's hope Davis has seen sense and binned any idea of leaving proper in 2019 – an absolutely crazy timetable whatever one's view of BrexitBig_G_NorthWales said:Decisive step on transistion according to Barnier
0 -
You can still back Britain leaving the EU before the 29/03/2019 - 23:59:59 at odds against on Betfair. Quite what is supporting this price now, I have no idea.0
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I really can't see Arlene and her team being happy about this deal.
No Surrender etc.0 -
My understanding is that Stalin certainly expected war with Germany, but not till about 1943-44.Theuniondivvie said:
I recall that there's a Russian historian, Suvorov, whose thesis is that Barbarossa was a preemptive strike by Hitler to prevent Stalin attacking Germany after being weakened by war with the Western allies.OldKingCole said:
Quite. but the late Adolf took a while in getting round to it. Though I suspect that if Britain and France hadn’t intervened to ‘help’ Poland the Germas might well have crashed on further East.david_herdson said:
It was always part of the plan. Indeed, it was always the key to the plan. Those who say that Hitler made a mistake in invading the Soviet Union miss the point that the attack was absolutely intrinsic to the nature of Nazism.OldKingCole said:
Eventually!david_herdson said:
It's not wholly inconsistent. The Third Reich also took a hard line on Russia.JonathanD said:
Is there a counter-factual anywhere where that happened?
On checking Wiki, I see Suvorov was formerly GRU and defected to the UK in 1978.
Watch how you go, comrade.
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Is this the same council that removed street lighting in Epping Forest and environs to save on council tax? Does more darkness lead to more crime?HYUFD said:
Essex is also increasing council tax to pay for more policeRichard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
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No! No! No! will be the response from the DUP.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
An obvious solution – and one foretold by @williamglennTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Military incompetence apparently extends to the courts:
"'Flawed' probe into Army instructors' abuse halted"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-43458416
"It emerged the RMP officer leading the investigation, Capt Teresa Spanton, did not question eyewitnesses because she thought they would lie."0 -
It also means the UK as a whole will abide by EU regulations as a backdrop if necessary as May agreed in DecemberSandyRentool said:
No! No! No! will be the response from the DUP.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Important to set out the choice. If we are spending more on defence to counter a Russian threat, something has to give. Higher taxes, lower domestic spending.Casino_Royale said:
I think as I’ve outlined there it would be affordable over a phased period to 2025.Jonathan said:
Time to raid the magic money tree? What goes?Casino_Royale said:Off topic, again, I detect a growing sense in the Conservative Party that defence spending must rise. There may also be a party political play there, as it's a clear red-line with Corbyn.
I'd say it was odds-on that Hammond now announces something about this in the Autumn budget, or next year. I'd expect measures on counter-espionage, cyber-security and GCHQ, and possibly even the announcement of a new extraordinary post-Brexit SDSR.
The MoD can soak up extra resources quickly, and the money would have to be spent very carefully, but I'd be looking for a ramp-up to c.2.5% of GDP on Defence by 2025.
I think the Army probably is short of 8-9k soldiers, the Navy about 3-4k sailors with operational funding needed on top. The RAF could use an extra squadron or two, with enhanced logistical and maritime capability. The Navy may also announce an extra couple of surface escorts, either Type 26 or Type 31s.
I hope you’d at least credit me with not being naive about public finances. I appreciate you might chose to make alternative spending decisions with the money.0 -
No as a report has shown switching off street lights in the area has had no increase in crime, the main increase has come in the day hence the funds for extra police, while saving the council millionsAnazina said:
Is this the same council that removed street lighting in Epping Forest and environs to save on council tax? Does more darkness lead to more crime?HYUFD said:
Essex is also increasing council tax to pay for more policeRichard_Nabavi said:
I haven't seen a full analysis, but I doubt if there is much difference. Most councils seem to be increasing council tax by the maximum 5% (including the Adult Social Care slug), which is unsurprising given how much pressure they are under.HHemmelig said:Has there been a discernable difference this year between how much Tory and Labour councils have increased council tax?
http://www.eppingforestguardian.co.uk/news/16070763.essex-police-found-no-link-between-switch-street-lamps-off-and-rising-crime-rates/0 -
UK remains in single market until Christmas 2020.
Back up plan to keep NI in SM indefinitely.
EU nationals arriving in so-called transition period have same rights as those arriving before end March 2019.
Decent package so far.
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Markets seem to like the statement
No hard Brexit0 -
"Autocratic powers are causing the EU a lot of difficulties..."FF43 said:Interesting polemic from Die Zeit in the context of the Skripal poisoning. The EU's weapon is an idea.
https://twitter.com/zeitonline/status/973992298328535044
It acknowledges the EU has problems, some existential ,and goes onto say:
The EU is not perfect and never can be. It will remain a work in progress forever...
We're not talking about sanitising the EU. We're talking about remembering the strengths of the EU while being aware of its problems and weaknesses. Autocratic powers are causing the EU a lot of difficulties, for sure. But we shouldn't conclude that that the race is already lost or that the EU needs these powers itself [eg dispatch an army].
The Union needs resilience, It will have it when European citizens are convinced of the idea behind it: we commit to cooperation, we set ourselves rules that shape our coexistence. We stick to the rules. We win some; we lose some, but win overall,
Ir is a very simple idea that is difficult to put into practice. It is the idea of a democratic community.
Indeed. These autocrats reside in Brussels.0 -
No doubt – effectively gives us an extra two years in the EU (near enough).Big_G_NorthWales said:Markets seem to like the statement
0
